State Board Votes To Suspend VA Counselor

31 Comments

1. Dan F, I too would like to receive quality care every time I go to the VA, but that doesn’t happen. I have good health insurance…for my family. I was once asked in 1997 by a raging nitwit that chaired a Presidential Advisory Committee why I didn’t just use my health insurance…which totally missed the point of my testimony that thousands of other vets could not rely on good health insurance, and I did not want to jeopardize mine by using it for service connected medical conditions. She was supposed to be addressing the shoddy care vets were receiving rather than whether we had health insurance.

   Would I use it if I thought my health was in jeopardy? Absolutely! Should I abandon my fellow vets because I have health insurance? Absolutely not! Should I just walk away from medical benefits I should get for service connected medical conditions? No.

   I served knowing full well that medical care would be provided for those injuries I received while serving. I did not serve so that I could pay out of my pocket for those injuries incurred in service, or to see my family lose their medical security over my service.

   1. I appreciate your position. I have advocated and helped many veterans with their claims; so, I am not giving up on my fellow vets. I have had treatment at five VAs. The one I currently go to is 70 miles from my house. I live alone and spending 5 hours of a day to receive substandard care is not my thing.

      My primary care doctor (3rd one I have had in 4 years) once wrote in my health record, after an exam, “found no tonsillory enlargement”. .I had my tonsils out 60 years ago. There are also other comments in my medical record made by him that make me wonder who was he writing about I had a dermatologist say he doesn’t know what the rash I had was, didn’t know how I got it and didn’t know how to treat it. A neurologist gave me a 5 minute exam and after giving a script then told me to stop taking medication from another VA doctor. If I had listened to him, It would have had severe consequences. In another instance, a GI doctor told me to take Beno for gas when I was having severe abdominal pain. Instead I had Bilary Colic. This is the short list.

      in each of the above instances, I went to see a private doctor and given a diagnosis, treatment and care. And, it was within 20 minutes of my house. So my point is, so what if it doesn’t cost anything to go to the VA. What is my life worth? What is my quality of wife worth? Fortunately, I don’t sweat the couple of thousand a year in deductibles.

      Yes, I have written to the privacy officer regarding the incorrect statements in my medical file. So what? They take 3 months and come back to you with a canned, “we didn’t do anything or they change the record and never question why it was in there in the first place.” I have called the PA, (who can hardly speak English) over issues and never received any help by her. I could go on and on.

      At some point, you stop beating your head against the wall, realize that the care will never be as good as in the private sector and that it matters little what Congress does because, they can’t regulate competency, efficiency and morality.

2. Ben, While I applaud the board voting to suspend her license, I don’t think it will send a message to any VA employee since they have become so used to being protected. I do not believe this would have happened without the media finding out about and reporting on this. In fact, what we know is that the VA downplayed this until it did become public. If there are a couple more instances of licenses being suspended, then a message might be sent.

   I had a meeting today with my local VA Chief of Staff. Also in the meeting were the Risk Officer, Safety Officer, Director of Patient Safety, Privacy Officer and a Patient Advocate. This meeting was a result of sending an email to McDonald about the incompetence of a primary care provider, lack of response from the VA, and her falsification of my records. I made clear at the start of the meeting I wasn’t there to complain about my own experiences at the VA, but to address issues that would affect all veterans.

   The Chief of Staff said he could not say anything about what action might have been taken against the PCP, which I understand, but I have zero confidence in anything being done. I told him I was shocked to see how many other vets had requested to be reassigned to another PCP rather than continue to see this person. I said I was also shocked at having to call a Patient Advocate daily, never hearing from them, and finding out she said she totally forgot about my request to be reassigned a month later. I got excuses, but said the Patient Advocate told me her office was being rearranged as a reason she didn’t return my call. I said it’s clear her phone is not the only phone in the facility, and that vets should get a timely response when bringing a problem to the Patient Advocates. I said a timely response might prevent a vet from going up the chain of command to get a resolution.

   I asked how the head of the Patient Advocates could also be the Public Affairs officer of the VA, and who he would advocate for if a reporter called asking questions about a veteran who received poor care. Which hat would he wear? I said I have read quotes in the media from him, and that if other vets read his comments knowing he was the head of the Patient Advocates, would a vet feel comfortable going to him with a problem with their treatment knowing he would advocate for the VA.

   It was an interesting meeting.

3. Due process has not yet run its course in Paul’s case. She is suspended while the investigation continues. I hope the Indiana AG finds out what, if anything, the other licensed social workers in Paul’s office had to do with the email. The AG’s strong statement is a good sign that Paul still could lose her license. Then Paul would have to settle for being a VA patient advocate, where her antics would be a sure hit at the holiday office party.

   I hope that more states start cracking down on bad VA healthcare providers. But the real problem is among the bloated, unlicensed civil service ranks. Fewer apathetic, insular, self-centered staff, more money for doctors and nurses. Also fewer toxic bureaucrats deterring good medical professionals from working at the VA.

   The law should be changed so that it easier to fire a failing civil service employee whose work has a direct impact on patient care, And the position of any VHA employee who can’t show how they directly impact patient care should be eliminated. If I were sitting in Bob’s chair, that’s how I would carry out the purge.

4. Well Ben, you did it again! Good job.

   https://www.cbsnews.com/news/va-rule-change-could-double-number-of-veterans-eligible-for-health-care/

5. Slap on the hand. Nothing more. Hey…she DOES have the Disney “Madam Mim” look going for here, so I guess since she personifies a Disney Character, VA Secretary Bob McDonald does not see any problem with keeping her on paid leave for three months, only to return and dish out the same old fast food medicine that the VA is so good at.

   A person does not have the luxury of “choosing” your medical team at ANY VAMC…you have to take what they dish out to you and if you complain you are flagged as “disruptive”…again, the VA needs an enema.

   1. I complained because of my new PCP falsifying my records, and it did result in being reassigned to another PCP. I think what helped was they could not discount me as another wild-eyed veteran that was just PO’d at everything.

6. 90 days? Is that all? She is not too smart for sure. Many/Most VA counselors are apathetic, but she is just plain pathetic. Who is going to pay for her overhead now?

   1. I suspect she will have her license suspended, but reassigned to another job where her license does not come into play.

7. We pray for our enemies to see the truth, the light, and the way. Even if they hurt us in anyway, physically or mentally. What that person did was inhumane and the apologies was rehearsed like everyother VA employee. These politicians and government workers are know to be like this. Wake up and see the truth, we are living in a big world of lies and more lies. Now the lies are overflowing out of the governemt and some that work for the government as well. Who can we trust in our hardship times?

   Answer: Jesus Christ

   1. I thought what was rather pathetic was that she claimed her agreement to the 90 day suspension was because it was causing so much stress for her and her family.

      Really? Stress for her and her family? What about any veteran going to her clinic? What stress would they or their family be under knowing the manager of that clinic was mocking the very veteran walking in to get treatment?

8. In Indiana, medical social workers are not required to be licensed. So, in light of the fact that the VA DOES require licensure – start there. The VA operates at a higher standard by requiring Master’s prepared LCSW where as if she had worked at the county hospital across the street from Roudebush (where I work) there would be no such requirement. Just because the state of Indiana offers a clinical social work license doesn’t mean they require people who have contact with patients to obtain it. The VA made that a standard, not Indiana. This was a penalty of opportunity, not much more on the local level.

   I must advise to proceed to bashing with caution – Zoeller saw an opportunity to posture in favor of vets and make a stink over a highly politicized issue, but make no mistake about it. The state of Indiana could give less than 2 effs about veteran’s issues. Check out the archives of the local access radio program ‘No Limits’ with John Crowel on WFYI and listen to the issues that Indiana veteran’s have had with this administration. Thank heavens for federal oversight of the VA in Indiana. Really. Check it out.

9. My husband is a 100% service connected veteran at the Poly Trauma Clinic in Indy where Robin Paul works. In contrast to Ms. Paul my husband’s social worker is a walking angel on earth. She deals daily with TBI and spinal cord injured veterans and always has a great attitude and is ready to help in any way she can. He has also had great care from many other medical professionals at Roudebush.

   That said he filed a complaint with the Indiana state board over dental care. In three years the dental clinic cannot fix his teeth. He has had two tooth infections they paid for emergency outside care for and he lost one because the VA dental clinic could not cap it in a year and he lost it.

   I am hoping Greg Zoeller takes that complaint as serious as they did Ms. Paul’s. I am a firm believer that this is they way to fix the VA. If they won’t police their own incompetent and uncaring providers then the states that license them need to step in and take away their ability to hurt anymore veterans.

   1. I have seen, and dealt with some very rude and seemingly uncaring employees at the Dayton VA., The one problem i see is that these few bad employees KNOW they are protected by the union that represent government workers. Unions play a very big role in re-assigning these bad apples, or; they are lightly reprimanded for their treatment of veterans which only make them even more disgruntled. IMO, unions have no place in ANY segment of Government.

10. To Ben Krause: follow the money trail. like this present passively homicidal case of the VA counselor instigating encouraged suicidal behavior. now, add this, in the form of a question: why would the VA CID (Criminal Investigation Division) go to the trouble of, as the video we have proves) of having two identical twins of me, to make me one of three identical triplets? Answer: to do away with me and replace me with a twin, to channel my 100% service-connected compensation, and decades of retro back pay (to 1976) back to entities at the VA who steal it for their own personal use!!!

    Ben, you are a very smart, very intelligent man. You know me, you know that what I have posted here for the past couple of years is true, you have seen everything I have said come to pass and then some. we need to post the video on your site, of the identical triplets secretly recorded video, and some other earth shaking videos that will allow veterans to right now assume full control over the VA.

    a few simple legal steps that are already in place, and we have full control of the VA, and the kicker is, we can even make the top executives of the VA look like heroes in the process. “find an area of agreement and build on it”, you get it? i know you do. think back to or actually go back and read some of my emails to you, some of my posts here, recall the dialogue of our phone calls, then add in the corroboration you went out and got on your own whereby you were not influenced by my input or any single source.

    this triplet thing is commonly used, by the VA, to steal the veteran’s claim. but, it is not the VA proper doing it, it is rogue criminals at the VA with codes, access codes, passwords, access to the deepest data bases tied into the Pentagon, tied to insurance companies, tied to banks, tied to unions, tied to your cell phone number, my home phone number, everyone’s phone calls (NSA), rogue self-gaining thieves who use their positions at SOC and everywhere else for personal gain. if we go to the trouble of sending you the video of the 4 obviously unimpeachable witnesses swearing I have two identical twins (triplets), you will post it here, okay?

    we will take it from there. remember, we make McDonald and clan (not to mention my boneheaded congressman and his HAADD staff) all look like heroes on all of this VA and military super-budgeting thing, and the crazy VA finally snaps out of their collective Alzheimers insanity to get going right now on the correct course, full steam ahead.

    realize, anyone can sabotage things, anyone can burn bad leaders, anyone can dig up dirt on badly flawed leaders and everyday personnel, but it takes a clear-headed, deep thinker with a clear positive and universally beneficial goal to make the difference. we are at a paradigm shift in the phase line with no FEBA accept the one we create (forward edge of the “battle” area). old school/new school tactics, never play fair, but always win, with a win-win scenario that everyone is thrilled by.

    key: bonuses, bring them back, but for actually approving valid cases, and for giving good health care. and use gold stars, literally, posted in hallways at all VA facilities. A major Harvard study and similar ones prove that top level execs of major corporations actually perform at their highest levels simply because they receive “gold stars”, and i mean the cheap little paste on kind that they still sell at the stationary and office supply section of your local department store. mix it up with a clear positive goal in mind, and lead. it’s not “lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way”, it’s just “Lead!”.

    asymetrical warfare, unconventional tactics, and realize, WE are the VA, and now we are playing by our own rules, and they (VA proper) are playing with us. encourage them to play by their own rules and the ones they make up as they go along, let them be shape shifters, use any tactics they want, same old ones, new ones, whatever, but go with the flow, and just be the leader they are looking for. they are looking for firm leadership, so just give it to them.

    “Tell them what you are going to tell them. Tell them. Then, tell them what you told them.” Don’t ask them to do something, tell them what to do. They don’t know what to do. So, tell them. They will gladly follow. And, do a little web surfing on NLP (neuro linguistic programming), but do not misuse it.

    Ben, where do we send the “VA triplets” video? remember, we make it a good thing, something even the secret little VA union will love, not to mention the Operation PowerBall guys at the Pentagon (gosh, I wonder what that program could be all about). Later. but focus on the triplets video, where do we send it so you can review then post it? Call me, and get through, you have my number. Please and thank you.

11. Everyone should go to their state licensure board. You can plug in the Dr., nurses, etc.. name. It will show if any violations on license. IF they are registered in that state. VA hires by any state license not just the one the Hospital is located in. Ufortunately, unlike most employers the VA will hire even if they have a violation. (ie) One Dr. at VA in Pa. has violation for failure to report to board two seperate malpractice settled lawsuits filed against him.
    I no longer will ever step foot in a VA!

    1. You have permanently removed yourself from on site VA medical care because of random instances of VA hiring a doctor you think should not have been hired? So, what you have done is thrown in the towel. Given up completely on the VA. I bet you could find 50 good practitioners (mininum) for every one you don’t approve of, IF you looked for the good instead of just the bad. Now, however, you will not get first hand knowledge of the VA healthcare system, and not use your obvious analytic skills to help turn things around. We need guys like you at the VA not just to point out problems, but to applaud when good things happen.

       1. I once worked for a very wise (and rich) man who said, I don’t need the walls to fall on me before I know to get out of the room. If your health depends on the practitioner and you have no faith in him or his organization, why would anyone want to fight for that?

          Let me ask you this; If you went to a restaurant where you got a good meal half the time, would you go back? The VA is the same way. I was a quiet, thankful patient for awhile. That was until they conttinually misdiagnosed problems. One time I went to “open clinic.”, sicker than a dog for a period of three weeks in a row before I was diagnosed. The doctors point of view? “It was a good thing you kept coming back or you would have died.”

          I have written letters to congressman and belong to the DAV and VVA. I am through – the VA will NEVER change. If you get good care, be thankful and realize there are thousands of your brothers who aren’t. This is still a country of choice – at least for now. I choose to see real American doctors.

       2. Stanman47 sounds like a VSO rep whose very existence depends on his doing exactly as the VA orders him.

    2. Bob, I don’t believe every state requires online reporting of medical license infractions. I am lucky enough to live in CO where it is a state law that any medical professional in the state, including those employed by the VA, are required to report any adverse actions against them.

       The surgeon who did my knee replacement had been sued in Missouri over a failed spinal operation. The nurse stealing my pain medication has a clear license, as does the nurse who falsified my records.

       The reporting is only as good as those willing to file and push a complaint.

       1. Interestingly, when I used to briefly use the VAMC, and had to be hospitalized, I had a nurse stealing my meds as well. I even went to an administrator after I pulled my own IV out while she was gone smoking and told them she left my chart wide open on computer in hallway for all to see and that she put in chart she gave me said meds over last few days and I never got them…nothing was done. I have never checked myself out of a hospital like that before, I absolutely detest needles, and pulling that IV out was not pleasant but it was also unpleasant enduring two and half days without certain meds I had been on for years…Dr. Frankenstein would have better bedside manners and ethics than a VA Hospital…you put your life in danger doing so as if stepping-off into a warzone as enlisted/officer.

          This must happen quite often…and unreported.

12. Its good that someone took action, But its sad that it had to be someone outside the VA to take control and do the right thing. Looks like another Black eye for VA Management. Do your Job VA and get rid of the Employees that are harming our veterans and quite the cover ups, with your worthless explanations. Just fire them and for once give the veteran the benefit of the Doubt. Just think about how many employees think like her and just laugh at the veterans they harm
    .
    Again where is BOB, Why did he give his phone # and E-mail out to the public, When he does not reply to veterans that write or call him. The VA in Denver wrote me a letter stating BOB asked them to write to me about what they did to me by letting an employee LIE about me to the Disruptive Committee.

    The letter was just a slap in the face as the acting director stated those were the FACTS reported at the time. FACTS BS there were no FACTs just flat out lies, I once again sent an E-mail to BOB and again asked him to FORCE the VA in Denver to provide his office with any and all Evidence that ever showed that I had in fact ever been reported as being disruptive and if they can not provide written evidence, then the VA write a letter that an error was committed and it be placed in my official records for every employee to see that an error has occurred, Just like they did when they red flagged my records.

    The Employee told the VA that I would come into the clinic at least twice a month and become Disruptive, they never wrote down one instance of these behaviors. No they did not, Because this never happened. They know if someone would really look into it, they would find that I have been right all along and my good name would be restored. But No that means the VA messed up and GOD forbid they will admit it and do the right thing and clear my good name. They do not want to remember they are only Human and Humans make mistakes. But it take a Honest person to stand up to his/her Mistakes and then correct the mistake.

    Hello BOB I am still waiting for your call and when you do call, I hope it not to ball me out. BOB lets get to the bottom of this matter and do what needs to be done to fix the problem. We need someone who knows when the wool has been pulled over their eyes. Bob just don’t believe their Lies and make them accountable and Make them provide your office with the written proof. I would very much like to hear from your office, or meet in person.

    1. James, given your situation, you need to write a Freedom of Information Act request and request any records the VA has on you that record the fact that you have been disruptive. Send this FOIA to the Director of the Denver VAMC. It might get routed around, but they will have to respond within 20 days. They will have to provide you any information you request, or respond that they have no records.

       If you truly have not been disruptive, then they will have to respond that they have no records responsive to your request. If they believe you have been disruptive, they will have to provide you with any records they have showing you were disruptive.

       I would suggest the following”

       My name is James XXXXX. My social security number is XXXXX. I am requesting any records the VA has in their possession, whether they be written or electronic that indicate that I have been disruptive while being seen at a VA clinic.

       In addition, I request any internal records the VA may have that shows any report of me being disruptive, or any deliberation by VA employees suggesting I have been disruptive.

       I have submitted several FOIA’s to the VA over the years…the latest asking for the form I signed suggesting they could bill my private insurance for medical care. They could not provide the signed form.

       1. 91veteran, I have done everything you have stated. The VA refuses to provide me or anyone else this information, as it does not exist. They admit that there is no written proof, but the VA states it has been collobrated, They did not respond to the question, Who collobrated it.

          The VA let the Employee, who started all this answer any and all inquires and she sure is not going to tell the truth as that would make her a lier. The DAV and Senator Bennets office fell for it and the Senators office told me they can only write an inquiry and can not force the VA to provide proof that I had been disruptive. If they can’t who can.

          And the DAV did the same. Now the DAV Rep, has just been hired by the person who accused me. Strange hu. Now that Rep that was just hired, has access to all my paperwork that I filed with her. Now the person who accused me, has her on her side and god only knows if she has provided that person with my written complaint.

          Again the VA refuses to admit that they screwed up and in stead of correcting the matter, they just keep covering it up. This may not seem like a big deal, But every time I go to the VA, I have to be very cautious and have to select my words very carefully and that does not even work. I went to see a surgeon and 4 people came into the room and I was asked twice do you drink. I replied no I have not drank for almost 7 years and the doctor, looking into the computer stated “well at your last apt with the GI clinic, they placed into your record that you were drinking.

          The director of the VA in Denver wrote in a letter, That my records were never coded for disruptive behavior, nor were my records ever red flagged and that there was never an investigation into the matter.

          Not only were my records coded for disruptive behavior, But they were red flagged for everyone to see and the director was right “there was never any investigation”, but they went ahead and punished me and placed into my records, If the VA ever hears that I again become disruptive, they will file Federal Charges and have me arrested and banished from all VA care. They used the word “EVER” that means to me that this is never going to be over and that I must be prepared to be arrested. Since they used the word “EVER” and the VA has time limits of filing a claim against them, which I am sure they will try to use to denigh me the ability to file a claim against them. But I contend that the time period has never ended for final adjudication as EVER never ends and therefore the case is not closed and they are still attacking me.

          I wished that they would have filed charges against me, that way I would of had my day in court and then the tables would have been turned and charges placed upon the person who made the allegations. and the VA would look really bad. Now Bob asked the new acting director to write me a letter and she did stating “Well those were the facts at the time, Really what facts ?, they have proven nothing except that they are dishonest and are willing to hurt veterans at will.

          The Disruptive Committee is or should be illegal, as they tread on all of my and others Civil and Constitutional rights to a fair hearing. They are playing Accuser, Judge and Jury and you have no recourse to defend yourself and they just do not care.

          A reasonable person would wonder how can this be possible to take such drastic action against someone and not require PROOF of wrong doing. The only thing left for me to do is write to the Highest power there is the President. His office I guess is the only hope I have left and if nothing comes out of that, maybe I should join the rest of the veterans that have been tormented and meet my maker. (NOT), I would never give the VA that satification.

          DISBAND THE DISRUPTIVE COMMITTEE AND HOLD THOSE ACCOUNTABLE. AND JAIL TIME FOR THOSE WHO TREAD ON OUR VALUES.

          BEN WAS SAYING THAT HE WAS THINKING ON PROVIDING US, THE TOOLS ON HOW TO CONTACT THE NEW’S TO HEAR OUR STORIES, I WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW HOW LOW THE VA HAS SUNK AND LETTING THEIR EMPLOYEE’S HURT VETERANS AND DO NOT HAVE TO PROVIDE ANY PROOF. EMPLOYEE’S CAN JUST USE HEARSAY, AND HEARSAY WOULD NOT HOLD UP IN COURT.

          GOD BLESS THIS COUNTRY, IT NEEDS IT.

13. This is exactly what veterans need to do when they have a serious issue with a licensed provider, be that a nurse, doctor, social worker, Dentist, or anyone else which must be state licensed. Even though VA healthcare providers may be licensed in any state to be able to practice at the VA, the individual licensing states usually take a dim view of unprofessional, unethical, incompetent and criminal licensee behavior.

    Medical personnel, at the VA, usually just receive minor punishments and it is then onward within the VA system. A license suspension means the person can’t work for a period of time and it is a permanent mark on their record. In the credentialing process, should she leave the VA and seek private employment, this will be a permanent mark and something which may prevent future employers from offering a position.

    I wonder once her license is suspended will the VA keep her on paid leave? That needs some follow up.

    Can you imagine hundreds of veterans making complaints to state boards?

14. Hats off to the Indiana State Attorney General Greg Zoeller who pushed for the accountability measure. But have to question what is being done about the Roudebush Veterans Affairs Medical Center, where Robin Paul worked, and the people responsible for initially trying to brush off the allegations.

15. Ben thanks for keeping us updated with this ongoing problem. I was hoping you would follow up on this. I am glad that something is being done and that is has happened this quick. I stated that nothing would happen to her and it looks as if I am wrong. I am glad to say that I am wrong on this and that something is happening. If more things like this would happen it would be a small victory for us.
    I think it is a start, the state is making a statement that it will not stand for this; however, I wonder if the VA will look at this as a “time served” type of punishment and nothing more will be done. She will have her license suspended for a short period of time and then the VA doesn’t have to go through the correct path and fire her. I hope that the VA will step up and take the proper steps to fire her. This would help and if the VA would fire her with NO benefits, compensation, severance package, ETC… then that would also help. I have looked and I cannot find anything showing if she is still getting paid or if they have stopped paying her. If she is getting paid while suspended then she is only getting a paid vacation until she learns of her final outcome.
    The other part that really gets me is the parts about how she has “agreed” to this punishment. I am so glad that she agreed to this, I would hate to know that she did not agree and the state suspended her. What a shame that would be. NOT!!! If you look at the PDF voluntary suspension agreement (again, laughable) in section 8 of the agreement it states the respondent voluntarily inters into this agreement to avoid any further emotional stress to her family and herself while the state continues their investigation. SHE wants to avoid the stress to herself and her family. That shows that she is not sorry and is only looking out for herself. What about the vets that she has caused so much stress and pain among other things.

    1. I wonder how she would feel if someone posted a cartoon of her hanging herself begging for Xanax because we veterans demanded quality care despite the stress it put on her and her family?

    2. F8f, from what I have read over the years, a voluntary surrender of her license looks much better for any future license or employment issue than if she had her license yanked. So she agreed? Well, it was either that or have it on her permanent record that her license was yanked. Having her license yanked suggests she fought it, and disagreed that her actions were wrong.

16. I pray that she gets better help with her PROBLEMS than she gave our Vets.

17. I pray she gets better help with her PROBLEMS than she gave our Vets.

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