Financially Incompetent Veterans

Disabled veterans deemed financially incompetent veterans will be allowed to own firearms again if a new bill is passed by Congress.

The Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act was approved by the House Committee on Veterans Affairs last week. It would allow veterans who are deemed financially incompetent to own firearms again despite being unable to manage a checkbook.

This would put veterans rights back on par with Americans and members of Congress, two groups where numerous individuals are clearly financially incompetent as well. Can anyone in Congress really balance the budget much less their own checkbooks?

Seriously though, veterans have fewer rights than American citizens.

Veterans cannot hire an attorney to represent them when they first file their benefits claim. They can only do so after VA developed evidence against them and denied the claim.

Veterans unable to manage their finances will lose control of their finances without a trial. And, those same veterans also lose their 2nd Amendment right to own a firearm.

Veterans also have no real choice in who provides them with health care – – VA dictates when and where the health care occurs, too.

Who knew?

No one told me that when I enlisted I would have fewer rights than criminals. Maybe the Department of Defense should disclose this as well as the risks of military service prior to enlisting.

Incompetent Veterans

For years, VA has unlawfully placed veterans on a “no buy” list after putting them into the mismanaged VA Fiduciary program. In that program, VA restricts a veteran’s ability to manage their own finances and own firearms without a court order, which is a violation of any veteran’s right to their property and the Second Amendment.”

According to VA:

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act prohibits you from purchasing, possessing, receiving or transporting a firearm or ammunition if you have “been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution.” In compliance with this act, VA reports the names of incompetent beneficiaries to the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI), which then adds the names to a database called the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Gun dealers must check NICS for the name of a potential buyer before selling him/her a firearm. You may be fined and/or imprisoned if you knowingly violate this law. You may apply to VA for relief of firearms prohibitions imposed by the law by submitting your request to the VA. The VA will determine whether such relief is warranted.

The problem here is that some VA attorney at some point in time concluded veterans who are financially incompetent for the purposes of managing their money somehow also means they are a “mental defective” for the purposes of the Brady Act.

So in a fatal swoop, VA eroded veterans’ Constitutional right to due process and to possess firearms.

Is this a symptom of linguistic confusion or something more sinister?

Financial Incompetence vs Mental Incompetence

Generally, VA must get an agency doctor’s opinion supporting the financial incompetence determination. This means the veteran is unable to manage her VA benefits. Then, a fiduciary is appointed to manage the veteran’s benefits for her. The restriction only applies to VA benefits monies and not non-VA monies.

Financially incompetent individuals can still make decisions and enter into certain agreements. That is why they can still manage their own non-VA money.

Now, the public commonly mistakes this determination with that of “mental incompetence” and apparently VA did as well.

Mental incompetence means the person is unable to make or carry out important decisions regarding their affairs. Such people are defined as mentally incompetent when they are manifestly psychotic or of unsound mind. The impairment can be consistent or sporadic by reason of mental defect.

In order to find someone “mentally incompetent,” evidence must be presented to a judge in a state court and that judge must render a decision that the same person is incompetent.

Basically, for ordinary Americans in this context, a person can buy a firearm unless a court finds that the person is mentally incompetent.

Why Do Veterans Get Fewer Rights?

Veterans are afforded fewer rights, and if a VA adjudicator who is a not a judge or lawyer concludes the veteran struggles to manage their finances, they lose the right to manage their own property and own a firearm.

As for firearms, VA has provided no evidence that one’s ability to manage their finances also translates to being an imminent danger to themselves with a firearm. But a lack of evidence did not stop VA from restricting the 4th and 2nd Amendment rights of veterans.

What do you think of this proposed law? Is it the right thing to do or will it expose veterans to greater risk of gun related injury or crime?

cj

Hey va, come try and take this.

…..____________________ , ,__
……/ `—___________—-_____] – – – – – – – – ░ ▒▓▓█D
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..) ), —-”
…//___//
..//___//
.//___//

I double dare ya.

ANutterVet

@cj – You should sell your digital artwork. You one funny dude. Lets eat some thin crust pizza, then go out and target practice using certain subjects. What do you say?

Bill

@cj…next version put a $ on the round

cj

@Bill: Ask and you shall recieve.

…..____________________ , ,__
……/ `—___________—-_____] – – – – – – – – ░ ▒▓▓$$$$D
…../_==o;;;;;;;;_______.:/
…..), —.(_(__) /
….// (..) ), —-”
…//___//
..//___//
.//___//

namnibor

Nice digital artwork. That would make a great t-shirt of black print on olive drab.

vet613

Sweet amigo! Great image.

cj

Disclaimer: I do not own any artwork provided here. I so a search for “ascii art” and then the item you want. I then just copy and paste it here. I don’t have an art type creative bone ine in my body. An example of a site would be “http://textart4u.blogspot.com/2012/04/gun-text-art-ascii-art.html” you notice on the right margin, you can find other items. Have fun and post often. Pictures are worth 1000 words.

cj

your other right………………….left margin lolllllll

ANutterVet

@cj – And all this time I thought you did all the art work. Sure had me fooled. Nah, I remembered that you posted about the ascii artwork in a previous comment.

cj

@ANutterVet: Fact is, I don’t like deception. I may be a lil crazy over honesty, well not crazy, I prefer “a lil not right” lol

ANutterVet
@cj – You said, “a lil not right.” Does this mean that you fall to the left? What up wit dat? You need lil sleepy time tea, B2, TMG [Trimethylglycine], Omega 3 oil, Magnesium, 2 10mg Valium [no generic, only the light shaded blue one with a heart in the middle; a brand name med], and a quick-acting barbiturate such as secobarbital (Seconal), pentobarbital (Nembutal) and or amobarbital (Amtyl). Don’t stop taking your Morphine because you’ll start going through withdrawal.… Read more »
cj

@ANutterVet: That’s not a heart, that’s a V for valium. My old boss designed that die. From Thomas Engineering, they make pill presses and pill coating machines, and bottle orentators. Biggest cutomer for the pill coating machines? M&M yeppers. They melt in your mouth and anywhere else.

Wait………lean to the left? those fightin words…..lol just kidding.

Target shooting……yeah that’s right…..tarrrrrget shooooting…there goes your left leaning 3clicks left please.

ANutterVet

@cj – Its been a long time since I’ve been prescribed Valium 10mg. I didn’t know it was a V, makes sense. But, if I recall, it looks like a heart. For me, I’ll take either as long as it cuts the edge off from what I’m feeling.

cj

@ANutterVet: Same here a very long time since I had a Vallium. I remember actually liking that drug. Doc scripted it for anxiety attacks. Funny thing tho, once he told me he use to get them all the time durring med school, I never had another one. Strange how the mind works.

cj

@ANutterVet: Come to think of it, they may not have even been anxiety attacks. All I know is when I went off, I was like a cornered rabbid dog, not even in the same zip code anymore, and if you tried to get at me? You get hurt real quick. Glad that stopped whatever it was.

cj

Look for acii art that has the left indent lines, or when you post your picture it will be messed up.

CorpsmanUp!

Congress should have their guns taken since they are unable to balance the VA budget. Makes sense to me!

Crazy elf

CorpsmanUp,
Congress can’t balance any budget that’s gone before them.

Crazy elf
Great Response, CorpsmanUp! I know of three instances, when a fiduciary was appointed to vets, and in all three instances the vet won. First two, Idaho and California, the VA (without the vet being informed) had VA representatives come to their homes to try to take their weapons. In both cases, the vets had strong support from neighbors, friends and/or local law enforcement and/or local representatives stand by them. The third case I have personal knowledge of. The “combat vet”,… Read more »
cj

Yes sir.

91Veteran

Crazy Elf, I read about the same things happening in CA and ID, but there may have been more than one in CA.

In the article I read, the veteran actually had his guns taken.

iratevet24601

Concur

namnibor
“[Mental incompetence means the person is unable to make or carry out important decisions regarding their affairs. Such people are defined as mentally incompetent when they are manifestly psychotic or of unsound mind. The impairment can be consistent or sporadic by reason of mental defect.]” 1) The VA is rather arbitrary without any accountability in what *exactly* is determined to be the part of the Veteran that’s “defective” according to the VA. 2) Almost every Veteran that sticks it out… Read more »
OLDMARINE

this is off topic but do you read any of JIM STONE’S articles

namnibor

No, but I shall look him up later today. Thanks for the suggestion.

lawyerlynn
namnibor, thanks for your comment. i appreciate what you write, you often make excellent points. as far as your #5 & 6 in the above comment, i wonder if you would be able to provide primary source documents for your claims about Adolph Hitler and the Third Reich? the reason i ask is this: everyone here knows that we’re being lied to. Big time. now, it appears that we’ve also been lied to about ww2, AH, the 3rd Reich, etc.… Read more »
namnibor
@lawyerlynn- Here’s one major published book from 1991 I based a now long-lost Art History final presentation on as one of my sources, I have the old hardcover museum type book of documenting the “Degenerates” but should be avail. I paperback or through your library network and interlibrary loan system: “Degenerate Art: the fate of the avant-garde in Nazi Germany”/ [edited by] Stephanie Barron, with contributions by Peter Guenther ISBN# 0-8109-3653-4 and the paperback ISBN# 0-87587-158-5 (LACMA pbk.) This art… Read more »
namnibor

Here’s the direct amazon link to the paperback: “https://www.amazon.com/Degenerate-Art-Fate-Avant-Garde-Germany/dp/0875871585/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489508693&sr=8-1&keywords=0875871585”

OLDMARINE

Lawyerlynn HENRYMAKOW dot com has a lot of articles about the JEWS and HITLER and he’s a JEW so he can say what he wants

namnibor
@Lawyerlynn– Duly note that in no way was I implying the Nazi’s did not do the exact same thing to the Jewish populace, because they indeed did, regardless of country or ethnicity origins. I wanted to make the point that the “mental defects of the VA” and Nazi “Degenerates” are of same cloth. Those that could escape did so, but Hitler’s Third Reich effectively shut-down one of the most innovative art schools and became a movement called “The Bauhaus School… Read more »
lawyerlynn
Yes, I had many of those same ideas you talk about here, regarding Germany, the National Socialists, their role in ww2, Adolph Hitler, his policies, procedures, etc. all of it. I agreed and used the “Nazis” as examples of terrible atrocities and hatred towards the poor jewish people. I held those beliefs through years and years of schooling, formal education, self-education and work history. Our indoctrination towards the Germans and ww2 and AH is deep & probably permanent, from what… Read more »
Lem

Different General Patton than the one my Uncle fought with and wanted to march on to Moscow. So much for your history rewrite lawyerlynn. Too many of us still alive who saw pictures from fathers and uncles who were there.

lawyerlynn

General George S. Patton, 3rd Army, Europe?
Wanted to march to Moscow.
Anti-communist.

Different general? How?

I’m not attempting to rewrite history. why jump to conclusions? defend indoctrination rather than discuss details? too bad but not a surprise.

Lem

I saw enough of the details in black and white prints gotten from a staff photographer by my Uncle. Don’t need any more “facts”. Not worth discussing with deniers.

Lem

If your father was with the 3rd then you should be old enough to remember the black and white news reals at your local theater up into the mid 1950s. Nothing tells it like pictures.

cj
Phyciatrists headed Hitlers death camps, they all fled Germany, not one has ever been tried for war crimes, and the same phyciatrist were responsible for setting up the asylums and shrik screwls in the United States. Isn’t that special? Yes even the VA’s own programs decend from these very induviduals. This comes from another doumentary about the history of phyciatry, <—————-thay doesn't look right, they even fuck with your head on how to spell their damn profession. Dirty bastards. ___§§§§… Read more »
namnibor

Nice! Gaggle of shrinks?

cj

@namnibor: Yes sir.

ANutterVet

@cj – Ducks of color.

cj

@ANutterVet: So true, and Crazy elf says they are bringing back some kind of magnetic torture machine? Some things never change with these quacks. The mentality of a quack………..

Ah yes, the VA show must go on, where else can you watch a doctor trying to stop a patient from bleeding out, while he simultaneously is stabbing his patient with more holes to find the scalpel he left in there.

NiteWish

And many came to America to live a good long life. If this is true a 98-year-old Michael Karkoc, from Minneapolis has Polish authorities seeking to extradite the man as a suspected Nazi commander with allegations that he committed crimes against humanity during World War II.
“https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/03/13/poland-confirms-minnesota-man-was-nazi-commander-seeks-arrest/21884509/”

Windguy

Who knew? Just another example of Congress treating veterans like a bunch of bugs on petri dish, setting us up for the next lab experiment.

ANutterVet
@Crazy elf – Yes, it was a friend of mine. He was drafted into the Army and did a tour in Vietnam. This is what happened. I came home from college classes, and my mother shared with me that JR’s wife called. Debbie told my mom that JR was doing Russian roulette again, and that she wanted me to come over ASAP. I went and to my amazement, JR was really suspicious of me, and he demanded that I take… Read more »
ANutterVet

Forgot to mention, JR’s weapons were never confiscated. These people were afraid of JR. Even the police.

cj

@ANutterVet: I am glad things went well in that situation.

ANutterVet

@cj – Me too. It was the first time watching someone load two rounds, spin, point the handgun at their temple, and pull the trigger w/o a flinching. Not a good feeling or remembrance.

cj

@ANutterVet: Yep, that sick feeling you get in the pit of your stomach that at any second……….well……….let’s just say: Those darn Russians and their silly games.

Crazy elf

ANutterVet,
Did “JR” live in ‘Makaha’ or ‘Wainai’?
I ask because I knew a vet out there who was like that!
Might be the same “friend”!

ANutterVet
@Crazy elf – JR lived on the Big Island. I first met JR around 1985. He may have lived on Oahu, I’m not sure. I think the developments name was called Paradise Park outside of Hilo, Hawaii [Heal-low not Hi-Low]. Wife = Debbie, Army Vet, I believe JR and Debbie had two or three daughters, and JR’s parents lived in Hawaii as well. JR liked Harley too. There was a group of mechanics that would purchase pan heads and other… Read more »
ANutterVet

JR’s last name is Vierra [spellings].

ANutterVet

Off Topic – Did you hear where the Air Force is creating a list of words that are not to be used, such as boy, girl, blackballed, etc. Political correctness is still running rampant.

namnibor

Yes, the military branches have their fair share of 8 years worth of Obamanite Butthurt Liberal Snowflakes. Soon ICBM’s will be redefined as “Tubular Nuclear Taunts”…TNT, but painted all pink with tie dye.

Submarines will be redefined as “Tubular Underwater Taunts”…TUT, also pink with tie dye.

All Jets will be redefined as “Tubular Intercept Taunts”…TIT, also pink but with polka dots just for fun.

All military, whether male/female will utilize bidets to keep the brown eyes clean. 🙂

namnibor
“[What do you think of this proposed law? Is it the right thing to do or will it expose veterans to greater risk of gun related injury or crime?]” I think it’s the correct thing to do and also take apart the VA’s Fiduciary Program because just how many friends of or even VA upper management SES hacks or Regional or VISN level hacks that are continually fed these Veteran’s to “manage and steal” their earned benefits? As far as… Read more »
Dennis
Why not cut to the chase and talk about what REALLY frightens people? From early childhood right up until very old age two words fill folks with fear, dread, and panic; “Mental Illness”. In VA things get even more interesting with this, don’t they? On the one hand (almost) nobody likes being the one in the center of the room who is suddenly aware at midday that they forgot both trousers and underwear and realizes that the one everybody is… Read more »
namnibor

Nicely stated, Dennis. I see a lot of VSO’s with poop hats, wonder how many VSO piggies are VA Appointed Fiduciaries for Veterans deemed defective? Enough to make salvos of poop hats apparently.

namnibor

@Dennis- I’d imagine those poop canons would make nice poop hats for the huddled masses at the VA and according to Martha Stewart, it would be a good thing.

Lem
The attorney problem. I’ve been asking for compensation for my minor wrist for 40 years. Operation was on the wrist. But the main problem is the thumb ankylosis. Because I didn’t ask for the thumb specifically and that was my major complaint on examination my claim was denied without specifically stating the reason so I wouldn’t know how to refile. The games the adjudicators play. Actually if correctly measured the wrist ankylosis is also compensable. So I should have two… Read more »
cj

@ANutterVet: These damn meds are messing up my vision, I need to sign out till later. Talk soon.

ANutterVet

@cj- Get some rest cj. I just looked at the comments again and didn’t realize that you were still on. I’m taking a break too. Tension and pressure is back again. We’ll talk l8r.

Don Karg
03/14/2017 Dear Benjamin Krause, The VA has been hiding a lot of criminal behaviors and this is one of those nasty tricks some had made a lot of money on. “For years, VA has unlawfully placed veterans on a “no buy” list after putting them into the mismanaged VA Fiduciary program. In that program, VA restricts a veteran’s ability to manage their own finances and own firearms without a court order, which is a violation of any veteran’s right to… Read more »
Jo3n

Living in Alabama, I didn’t know there was a law that forbade guns. It’s sad that the U.S. has to pass a law to make Veterans almost equal to the rest of the U.S. My money sometimes gets away from me, my guns don’t.

cj

@Jo3n: Jo3n, my money ALWAYS gets away from me, my guns and blades, never. You live in a great tomato growing state there. Send some of that potent soil up here will you?

Crazy elf
To y’all who have put in “FOIA’s” during Obama’s administration. Here’s a reason why many weren’t given out. From: “The New York Post” via; the “Associated Press” dated: March 14, 2017 titled: US spent over $36 M on records lawsuits during Obama’s final year in office!” It was actually more than $36.2 million of taxpayers monies! There were three main reasons why the US government would NOT release information to anyone. Please read this article. It’s very informative! ________________ Lastly,… Read more »
Crazy elf

@”cj”
The article I referenced was from “military.com/Daily News” on the electronic machine being used at certain VHA’s.
Title to google is;

“VA Uses New Electromagnetic Therapy to Treat Depression”

via: “Fox News” | by Terace Garnier!

It’s a reminder that – “Those who refuse to learn from history, are DOOMED to repeat it!”

Crazy elf

P.S.
Many on here knew exactly what this “Machine” really is! Just like the ones, from the late 19th century and up through most of the 20th century, where the patients’ brain ended up “FRIED”! It was supposed to make the patient “docile”! What it actually did was make the patient comatose!

cj

@Crazy elf: I have never seen one in person, only in movies. Asylum horror movies and I think in Death Wish, the first one. Phyciatirsts are sure some sick bastards. They creep me out more than clowns creep other people out.

namnibor
They have one, a brand new one, at The Ohio State Univ. Wexner Medical Center, at their behavioral health building. I walked by it and my then Psych hack that was walking me back to the office she acted like Vana White on Wheel of Fortune, arms pointing to the oh-so-proud “machine”, and with a croc smile asked if I would like to “try it”?! Hell NO. The thing was all white and looked like the “orgasmatron” in Woody Allen’s… Read more »
NiteWish
Off Topic but interesting because we wonder what they do with all the blood they take,DNA from a Million Veterans & Enlistees…. And it was some years ago VA started using ID cards with your picture. Mmmm I can’t help but wonder if they’ve used some samples for Research & Development. For the murdered young lady soldier its money well spent even if he’s never caught. U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command has released a computer generated image of the man… Read more »
Dennis

Whenever I wear my Viet-Nam vet hat in public I’m always given these looks like I’m the creature from the black lagoon or something. Sometimes I will wear one of my T-shirts that has a rifle emblazoned on it to coincide with the hat. This installs a fear reaction in some. I’m a proud Viet-Nam vet and I have the right to feel like that but I want people to leave me alone about it.

ANutterVet
@Dennis – Do you have PTSD? Were you diagnosed by a licensed physician? Do you enjoy animals? How about K9’s? Are you able to take care of a K9? If you’ve answered yes to these questions, then you most likely already know what I’m going to suggest. If you’re interested in getting a dog, post a response here tonight, and I’ll share some additional information with you. What I’ve got to share, I’ve done myself. Let me know in your… Read more »
cj

@ANutterVet,@Ex va; Not going to be on tonight, upper back pain is bothering me, and I have 4 appointments over the next 2 days, lotta driving. End up double dosing when it’s all over. Hope everyone sleeps well, goodnight and God Bless you all.

ANutterVet

@cj – Ok, hope you get a good night rest and sleep. Later.

91Veteran
As far as I am concerned, the only reason I can see for this law is to reaffirm the rights of those now having them infringed by an asshole communist whose intent was simply gun control. As I understand this issue, and having followed it for a long time, this resulted from Obama directing his agencies to take advantage of the Brady Law by interpreting it in a many most advantageous to gun control. I was skeptical when I first… Read more »
Jo3n

@Cj, I would so much more want what y’all are growing. The soil here comes with fire ants and pine tar. As is so often, Dennis is a way only Dennis can, he reminded me of some of our Rights. I wonder, how far are we going to let them get away? We live in troublesome times.

james gallegos
How about veterans with PTSD are they restricted from owning a fire arm ? The VA making up Rules. Rules are rules and not Laws, So they have no Authority to restrict any Veteran. The VA not only wants to control their employee’s, they are controlling the Veterans. The VA is not our legal system, yet they act as a Judiciary component of the United States. They punish Both, we are not employee’s and the VA needs to stay away… Read more »
cj

test m ascii:
╭┳━┳┳━━━━━╭┫╰╮┈┈┈┏━╮╭━┓┈.╭━━━━╮
┃┃╭╯╰╮┈VA┈┃▎▃╰╮┈┈┃┏┗┛┓┃╭┫AFGE┃
╯┣╯┈╭╯CASH╰╭╯╭▌┈┈╰┓▋▋┏╯╯╰━━━━╯
╱┃┈┈╰╮COW╮┈╰┳┻╯┈╭━┻╮╲┗━━━━╮╭╮┈
╱┃┏┳┳┻┻━┓┣┳┳╯╱╱┈┃▎▎┃╲╲╲╲╲╲┣━╯┈
╱┃┃┃┃╱╱╱┃┃┃┃╱╱┈╰━┳┻▅╯╲╲╲╲┃┈┈┈
╱┗┛┗┛╱╱╱┗┛┗┛╱╱ ┈┈┈╰━┳┓┏┳┓┏╯┈┈┈
……………┈┈┈┈┈┗┻┛┗┻┛┈┈┈┈

cj

╭┳━┳┳━━━━━╭┫╰╮┈┈┈…┏━╮╭━┓┈.╭━━━━╮
┃┃╭╯╰╮┈VA┈┃▎▃╰╮┈┈┃┏┗┛┓┃╭┫AFGE┃
╯┣╯┈╭╯CASH╰╭╯╭▌┈┈╰┓▋▋┏╯╯╰━━━━╯
╱┃┈┈╰╮COW╮┈╰┳┻╯┈╭━┻╮╲┗━━━━╮╭╮┈
╱┃┏┳┳┻┻━┓┣┳┳╯╱╱.┈┃▎▎┃╲╲╲╲╲╲┣━╯┈
╱┃┃┃┃╱╱╱┃┃┃┃╱╱..┈╰━┳┻▅╯╲╲╲╲┃┈┈┈
╱┗┛┗┛╱╱╱┗┛┗┛╱╱ ..┈┈┈╰━┳┓┏┳┓┏╯┈┈┈
……………………. ┈┈┈┈┈┗┻┛┗┻┛┈┈┈┈

cj

╭┳━┳┳━━━━━╭┫╰╮┈┈┈…┏━╮╭━┓┈.╭━━━━╮
┃┃╭╯╰╮┈VA┈┃▎▃╰╮┈┈┃┏┗┛┓┃╭┫AFGE┃
╯┣╯┈╭╯CASH╰╭╯╭▌┈┈╰┓▋▋┏╯╯╰━━━━╯
╱┃┈┈╰╮COW╮┈╰┳┻╯┈╭━┻╮╲┗━━━━╮╭╮┈
╱┃┏┳┳┻┻━┓┣┳┳╯╱╱.┈┃▎▎┃╲╲╲╲╲╲┣━╯┈
╱┃┃┃┃╱╱╱┃┃┃┃╱╱..┈.╰━┳┻▅╯╲╲╲╲┃┈┈┈
╱┗┛┗┛╱╱╱┗┛┗┛╱╱ ..┈┈┈╰━┳┓┏┳┓┏╯┈┈┈
…………………….. ┈┈┈┈┈┗┻┛┗┻┛┈┈┈┈

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