GAO: Despite Rampant VA Employee Health Care Fraud, Metrics Still ‘Flawed’

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GAO Randall Williamson

In testimony to Congress last week, GAO said VA is using flawed clinical quality measures that do not accurately reflect reality due to incomplete data despite nationwide health care fraud committed by VA employees first exposed in 2014.

GAO director of healthcare Randall Williamson told Congress the 2013 clinical productivity metrics created by VA are seriously flawed. Williams recommended VA “expand its existing productivity metrics to track the productivity of all providers of care to veterans” to include contractors and advanced practice providers.

How novel? After 80 years, VA is being told to create performance metrics to ensure all health care services are recorded.

DOWNLOAD: GAO Report Exposing VA Productivity Problem

Presently, the statistical models formulated by the data do not accurately reflect the reality of health care administration in the agency.

Just think, after VA failed to protect veterans getting screwed by VA employees rigging the metrics to increase productivity numbers in 2014, VA has still not created accurate metrics to more properly measure performance at any VA facility.

The 2014 Wait List VA Employee Perpetrated Health Care Fraud

In 2014, CNN first exposed that health care fraud was being perpetrated by VA employees to boost performance numbers at Phoenix VA. That fraud resulted in the death of hundreds of veterans who died without access to guaranteed health care they were wrongly denied.

A nationwide investigation revealed the fraud scheme was a problem at most VA facilities where schedules used shadow schedules to shuffle veterans around without providing health care appointments regardless of the severity of the condition or illness.

RELATED: Embattled Phoenix VA Head Linked To Veteran Deaths Given Probation

Once exposed, Congress set in place numerous measures and billions in taxpayer dollars to improve the systems that allowed fraud to occur. Apparently, the measures are still not accurate and likely provide higher performance numbers than is warranted by reality.

RELATED: Falsified Wait Time Numbers Prevents Veterans Choice Access

Where did the money go that Congress allocated to fix that part of the problem?

The most blatant problem highlighted by Williamson matches the same problems of similar models created by Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA). In short, the agency rewards high quantity of patient processing while failing to account for patients’ treatments that are more intense and require more resources and time.

In VBA, veterans’ claims are processed as quickly as possible and metrics largely reward high quantity claims processing, which actively discourages correct claims processing of more complicated claims.

RELATED: Phoenix VA Hires Known Liar, Abuser To Run Veterans Choice

Likewise, metrics used to monitor clinicians also fails to account for high-intensity treatments that require more time and resources.

Four Highlights From GAO Report

The four major limitations highlighted by GAO:

Failure To Account For Clinicians 

Productivity metrics are not complete because they do not account for all providers or clinical services. Due to data systems limitations, the metrics do not capture all types of providers who deliver care at VAMCs, including contract physicians and advanced practice providers, such as nurse practitioners, serving as sole-providers. In addition, the metrics do not capture providers’ workload evaluating and managing hospitalized patients.

Recommendation

To improve the completeness and accuracy of VA’s productivity metrics and efficiency models and strengthen the monitoring of clinical productivity and efficiency VA-wide, the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs should direct the Undersecretary for Health to expand existing productivity metrics to track the productivity of all providers of care to veterans by, for example, including contract physicians who are not VA employees as well as advance practice providers acting as sole providers.

Intensity Not Measured 

Productivity metrics may not accurately reflect the intensity of clinical workload. A 2016 VA audit shows that VA providers do not always accurately code the intensity of—that is, the amount of effort needed to perform— clinical procedures or services. As a result, VA’s productivity metrics may not accurately reflect provider productivity, as differences between providers may represent coding inaccuracies rather than true productivity differences.

Recommendation

To improve the completeness and accuracy of VA’s productivity metrics and efficiency models and strengthen the monitoring of clinical productivity and efficiency VA-wide, the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs should direct the Undersecretary for Health to help ensure the accuracy of underlying staffing and workload data by, for example, developing training to all providers on coding clinical procedures.

Metrics Do Not Measure Need For Staffing Levels

Productivity metrics may not accurately reflect providers’ clinical staffing levels. Officials at five of the six selected VAMCs GAO visited reported that providers do not always accurately record the amount of time they spend performing clinical duties, as distinct from other duties.

Recommendation

To improve the completeness and accuracy of VA’s productivity metrics and efficiency models and strengthen the monitoring of clinical productivity and efficiency VA-wide, the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs should direct the Undersecretary for Health to develop a policy requiring VAMCs to monitor and improve clinical efficiency through a standard process, such as establishing performance standards based on VA’s efficiency models and developing a remediation plan for addressing clinical inefficiency.

Workload And Staffing Data Inaccurate

Efficiency models may also be adversely affected by inaccurate workload and staffing data. To the extent that the intensity and amount of providers’ clinical workload are inaccurately recorded, some of VA’s efficiency models examining VAMC utilization and expenditures may also be inaccurate. For example, the model that examines administrative efficiency requires accurate data on the amount of time VA providers spend on administrative tasks; if the time providers allocate to clinical, administrative, and other tasks is incorrect, the model may overstate or understate administrative efficiency.

Recommendation

To improve the completeness and accuracy of VA’s productivity metrics and efficiency models and strengthen the monitoring of clinical productivity and efficiency VA-wide, the Secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs should direct the Undersecretary for Health to establish an ongoing process to systematically review VAMCs’ remediation plans and ensure that VAMCs and Veterans Integrated Service Networks are successfully implementing remediation plans for addressing low clinical productivity and inefficiency.

Source: http://www.healthcareitnews.com/news/gao-official-va-must-improve-clinician-productivity-tracking

Bill
Bill

Is this a surprise to anyone?

Angela
Angela
@Benjamin and all, the VHA and VBA have lied so much and are so corrupt that the VA does not even have baselines at all in either VHA or VBA to even start the process of improving anything about anything in the VA. The whole administration has such fraudulent data in all aspects of the VA that I do not believe the VA can even be turned around. Nobody wants to be ethical and honest anywhere or about anything so… Read more »
Crazy elf
Crazy elf

+Angela,
You must not forget “credible, reliable and valid” + honorable and trustworthy employees!
Without those types of employees there will be no change in VA!

Ohnonotagain
Ohnonotagain
This is beyond making some adjustments. Fact is they have in numbers employees liking and scheming to keep corrupted. Since when does government medical care create methods to retaliate harass stalk in such a systemic organized plan. There has to be more than a paycheck and benefits involved. No accurate inventory, drugs money equipment. A whole number of issues will underline who is profiting? Big bucks in contracting, I am sure if it is local they want ppl just like… Read more »
Angela
Angela

@Crazy Elf, yes sir!!!! Thanks for further adding to my message. Yes, the principles mentioned are going to have to be applied and followed before the VA will be able to see the light of day.

Ugettincaughtnomatawhaudo
Ugettincaughtnomatawhaudo

Now 5 floors flooded by one pipe at Manchester hmmmn sounds like the squad in mode. Destructive intimidation. Still everyone else elated with news, stay tuned more will come. Keep flushing your paychecks in now the flowing floors of ur employment. H

Ugettincaughtnomatawhaudo
Ugettincaughtnomatawhaudo

The pressure on keep it going they can’t handle truth be told. Now their bragging rights to community, friends and family EXPOSED! Not enough yet.

Privatesectorneedapplyhelpvets
Privatesectorneedapplyhelpvets
It just turns my stomach as the interim director now at Manchester retired Air Force says he gets 100% of his care at VA. Da how ignorantly statement. For one second does he think he subject to the same standard many r subject too? Especially those who reported etc. I here same from SVO’s well of course, they are avoidants to true nature of what goes on n as long I get mine who cares. And I’m going to brag… Read more »
cj
cj

.

Ohnonotagain
Ohnonotagain
Oh after the desgnitaed room then Nigeria took me to exam room made me appt with radiologist her cousin so to speak on outdated equipment so the it made phony results with barium. But I found hidden specialty clinic advocate through quality mngr gastro stuck scope in stomach blockage due to nodules in duodenum, as I had her story nodules in military. But damage done everlasting stomach ailments from taking years to put a scope Now I would like to… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

The VA have always been Wikipedia poster children for term “Sociopathic Petulant Child”.

What’s Isaacson going to recommend? Yet another directive or law that the VA will use it to wipe it’s ass with?

For all this to continue one seriously must consider possibility those with purse strings in D.C. want to keep the VA dysfunctional on purpose because it’s the perfect slush fund with absolutely no accountability and follow-through.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

Nope, not another “directive or law” the VA will NOT follow! The VA hasn’t followed any directive or law YET! What makes anyone believe they will follow any new directive or law!?
They don’t follow any fuckin law now!

Why can’t the “powers that be” just say; “SHUT DOWN ALL VHA’s!”

91Veteran
91Veteran

Crazy Elf, I can think of roughly $90 billion reasons why Congress doesn’t get serious about the VA. Too many in that shithole by the Potomac benefit from all that money flowing through.

VA IS LYINF INC.
va dc hq one big big big federal rico crime racket nothing will change congress will giva dc hq 186 billion $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4444444 IN 2018 BUDGET VETS SCREWED AGIN @ AGIN @ AGIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cj
cj
@namnibor: You are 100% correct again, the VA, has always been, and always will be, one giant unaccountable slush fund. Where did all that SS fund monies go? Ya think that was enough for the DC drunken sailor syndrome? Does anyone “really” think the DC crowd gives a shit about any one of us, or anyone of your loved ones? Do I really need to answer that? War was declared against the citizens of this country long ago, by those… Read more »
James Clement
James Clement

” . . . even Evel Knievel couldn’t jump that shit with a pair of Westinghouse J46-WE-8 roller skates.”

OO:41 after a long, mostly unproductive day at the “Fortress of Evil” – – – then seeing a few friends before my upcoming trip to California early next month.

Thanks CJ, I needed that good laugh!

Lem
Lem
The problem is a failed accountability system. It more focused on input than outcome. How is the veteran’s health benefiting. Are they living longer better lives? That was the input questions on the first Obama Care drafts for an Accountable Care Organization system recommended by David Cutler before Tom Daschle got a hold of it and let the insurance industry rewrite the plan. Morbidity reports assess challenge and outcome not hours thrown at getting numbers in and out of the… Read more »
Windguy
Windguy

The VA is basically a single payer system. Farm it out to Australia – theirs works.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

The basic models that are not being adhered to are standard across the Government and used in all hospitals in the real world. How can the president allow Shulkin to continue is his position. Right now all Shulkin is nothing more than a brown snake playing peak-a-boo out the backside of the VA.

It is way past time to put the boot to his backside on the way out the door.

cj
cj

@Seymore Klearly: I dunno why, but after reading your post, I got this picture in my head of Shithead Shill-kin, made up like a clown gone wrong, holding his arms like they are wrapped around a pipeline, running back and forth like he is trying to Jack off a dinosaur, the dinosaur being the VA.

My virgin mind will never be the same again!!!!!

cj
cj

I always wondered why this guy had a smile on his face……….now I know!!!

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Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

The image I am trying to implant involves that of Assy McGee and Mr. Hinkey

“Taking A Trip | Assy McGee | Adult Swim”
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRwlwCH1vmI”

“”Figaro” by Mr. Hankey”
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu7LyF2NtAw”

Ohnonotagain
Ohnonotagain
Voting shulkin I don’t believe is answer. He is surrounded by VA personnel, slivering ways of o turn him. IU for example he didn’t know what it was and we know the description he gave came from VA turn him team. He has too get some loyalists that r pro veteran pro accountability for tax payers and please integrity. He wants transparency which that s last thing VA medical employees want. As it is and has been rule of VA… Read more »
Dave F
Dave F

Veterans will continue to die as long as the VA is in charge of providing medical care for said Veterans. You can’t fix a ship that has already sunk. I would like to say this is all fixable but it will never be fixed. There are more illegal aliens than Veterans so our Congress cares more about them than our Vets. It is that simple.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf
Dave F, Don’t forget the “refugees” our government is financially supporting as well. Towns and cities across the country are struggling to support our own citizens. All while they are trying to get “Sharia law” passed. Completely ignoring the Constitution, the laws of their states and local municipalities. You’ve heard of that woman, in Minneapolis who was shot by that cop lately? You remember, she called the police because she “…thought someone was breaking into her home!” She told the… Read more »
Crazy elf
Crazy elf
Y’all aren’t going to believe this shit. Or maybe you will. Today, while at the Daytona Beach VHA, the wife and I overheard a few, (and it was only a few), VA employees defending the VHA in Manchester. Other VA employees were not too happy with their coworkers. They were shutting down those who defended the VHA in Manchester. Basically telling them, they were NOT telling the truth over what happened! In my opinion, more VA employees are starting to… Read more »
Jo3n

You have to be kidding. Even yesterday, they hire liars. This is really getting old. The VA the way it is, is incapable of success. Shulkin’s priorities are?? His staff is extremely questionable. They gotta go. Shulkin’s staff have to have nothing to do with the VA. Throw them out. There are way too many chiefs in the VA.

CorpsmanUp!
CorpsmanUp!

****Shulkin busted in outright Lie******

See article : “https://www.google.com/amp/amp.wmur.com/article/documents-show-va-secretary-was-informed-about-allegations-months-ago/10325979#ampshare=http://www.wmur.com/article/documents-show-va-secretary-was-informed-about-allegations-months-ago/10325979”

91Veteran
91Veteran
Interesting. A report about lots of numbers where the focus is on the numbers rather than their reason for being…providing health care to veterans. Is it a shock to anyone their metrics do not catch contractors or nurse practitioners? Hell no. In fact, one could reasonably conclude it was designed that way. Remember McDonald wanting to move to more nurse practitioners as PCP’s? Then every VA can be 5 stars and some poor union slugs won’t have their feelz hurt.… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor
Again, the VA are like the ‘VOGONS’ in ‘Hitchhiker’s Guide to The Galaxy’. The VOGONS loved and breathed bureaucracy and ensured everything required even additional numbers and approvals of new statistics and all properly documented….but could not even use their technology effectively and rather clumsily, just as the VA administers healthscare. Too many similarities. Isaacson and AFGE little COX may be the VOGON Leaders. I was just playing Angry Birds on my old Nook Color tonight and was pretending the… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Elf I hear ya man.

An update to the story on Manchester by WCAX dot com. These guys have been working on this since last August. Watched the Video and the first thing that came to my mind is why don’t they piss test these bug eyed swollen tongued drug addicts. They filed for whistle blower protection last August because they knew they were about to be fire for their incompetence.

“http://www.wcax.com/category/166239/video-landing-page?clipId=13501600&autostart=true”

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

One looked like a puffer, And the other one just laid down his crack pipe…LOL

The smoking cheek’s video was also A smoker..LOL

And as for today’s article…CROOKS…CROOKS……CROOKS

Mobullsh!t
Mobullsh!t

No such article the whistle blowers were going to be fired. Don’t confuse the corruption and dereliction of duties.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Say MoTrollsh!t With all the so-called medical professionals working there how come no one report the junkies in the news video above for using drugs at work? Oh, and a Very Convenient pipe burst at the VAMC today. Thank God water does not run down hill in New Hampshire, eh! Can’t wait to hear how the investigation was hampered by the water damage to all the paper records, since we know from prior reports, they were having computer problems at… Read more »
Angela
Angela
A Do Nothing Veterans Affairs –A Do Nothing Congress–A Do Nothing Senate —No Ethicallity or No Accountability or No Humaneness Anywhere. All trying to sabatoge any efforts towards law and order. All trying to sabatoge any civility. All trying to sabatoge any humaneness directed towards Americans (Veterans). Such Dysfunctions in all the government. Getting the Congress and the Senate to do their jobs are absolutely being unheard-of. Getting the VA to do it’s job with any accountability, ethicallity, and humaneness… Read more »
ANutterVet
ANutterVet

We Veterans need to implement some sort of Social Media and Digital Campaign against the VA, just like ex-POTUS Obama did during his last Presidential Election. And no, I’m not a progressive Liberal. Far from it. Talking about a strategy. Although, what everyone is doing helps, but I’m sure we’re NOT using the full capacity of Social Media to get the word out. Just saying.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

ANutterVet,
I agree! There needs to be more put out on ALL VA’s nationwide for veterans and taxpayers to see what’s really going on!
A national campaign is nessasary to bring all the dirt out into the open!
Trouble is, who can do it?
Few of us have the resources capable of such a task! It would take a great deal of time and money!
I’d be willing to help. Trouble is I’ve not got the financial resources at this time.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Crazy elf – – – I’m in the same boat, plus dealing with the VA’s off the wall prescription practices of pain medications. I’m only able to participate here and there, but need all of my resources to focus on my health. I won’t know where to start with a campaign. I was just recalling how ex-POTUS Obama did, and how effective and well that it worked.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf
Seymore, I just googled the “WCAX” news article w/short video. Very telling. The article is titled: “Major Shake Up at Veterans Hospital in New Hampshire” It’s been updated on 17 July 2017 @ 6:42 pm edt. The “spokeswoman” for the AFGE is out of her fuckin mind! How can these AFGE fuckwads sleep at night. Knowing their MURDERING people/human beings/veterans? They must NOT have a conscience! Rep. Martha Roby and a whistleblower tell the truth about that failing VHA! It’s… Read more »
Crazy elf
Crazy elf

P.S.
Seymore,
Why wasn’t anyone fired? Just more bullshit from VA! “Shithead Shulkin” isn’t doing his fuckin job! And, as long as his ass sits in charge, NOT one thing will change!

“91Veteran” explained it right. Lots of backroom deals, so ALL in Washington can become richer off the backs of veterans and taxpayers!

Jo3n

Ok, they are crooked and we are only a means for their miserable lives. I’m thinking Americans are all over the place; with what’s important to them. Health care, a wall, silencers, animal rights, black lives matter, police involved shootings, aliens, then there’s just trying to live. It’s the Veterans we need to reach. How do we do that?

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Simply talk about it. Talk about it here, and encourage others to talk about.

Share what you learn.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
One more for the list: Women being shot by immigrants with guns. The case of the Somali immigrant police officer shooting a woman who called 911 to report the sounds of a rape in her alley. Of course the immigrant police officer and his partner had their body cameras turned off. ” CBS Pushes Gun Control After Somali Cop Shoots White Lady” …But only cops should have guns, says anti-gun groups Kit Daniels | Infowars.com – July 18, 2017 “https://www.infowars.com/cbs-pushes-gun-control-after-somali-cop-shoots-white-lady/”… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

Also, there’s that BLM nexus as well. Poster Child for what can go wrong in sanctuary cities when you make one of them a cop that not too many years ago were slaughtering our military in Semolina as depicted graphically well in movie “Blackhawk Down”…savages. Sorry, but I cannot extend trust to anyone that sticks their heads up cows asses and let cows pee on them…just saying.

namnibor
namnibor

Somalia ….damn spell Czech

Crazy elf
Crazy elf
Hey, brothers and sisters, our government shows no signs of slowing down ALL the corruption within it! As was Englands corruption towards America in the 1770’s! When “Revolution” finally broke out, in 1776; One third of our country didn’t give a shit, (no political affiliation or aspirations)! One third wanted to remain under control of England, (the Torrys)! And, the final third decided to break ties and fight for freedom, (PATRIOTS)! Does this “senerio” sound familiar? Look at our last… Read more »
Jo3n

@SeymoreKlearly, You have been doing this for some time. I’m guessing. You are accurate with your information. So, what I am hearing from you is, be patient? Just reach out to as many Veterans as I can. Guess I can give it another, let’s say, a hundred days. And, don’t stress about the VA. We all know, it’s really fucked up.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
If you step back and look at the changes that have been made as a result of Ben’s work for Veterans over the past several years. Changes that would not have happened without him and his skills with this new media and working with the press. As a result more and more Veterans are learning the dangers of VA Healthcare. The most deadly healthcare system in America. Lives have certainly been saved with veterans empowered with information and better able… Read more »
OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE
Pentagon Study Declares American Empire Is ‘Collapsing’ military power is essentially depicted as a tool for the U.S. to force, threaten and cajole other countries into submission to U.S. demands. The very concept of ‘defence’ is thus re-framed as the capacity to use overwhelming military might to get one’s way — anything which undermines this capacity ends up automatically appearing as a threat that deserves to be attacked” The VA is like A bunch of fat cat’s licking the money bowl dry…They… Read more »
OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

Your Notify me of follow-up comments by email…Isn’t working BEN

White Rabbit Army Infantry RVN 68-69
White Rabbit Army Infantry RVN 68-69
I phoned the White House VA Complaint Hotline Monday afternoon with the intention of reporting the VAMC Manchester, NH criminal negligence of veterans. I was on hold for about ten minutes, then s man answered. Before giving him any information, I asked if he was a VA employee. You guessed it. He draws a paycheck from the VA. So using the new White House VA Complaint Hotline will quite probably land you on the Disruptive Behavior Committee’s short list. What… Read more »
yesIcomplainloudly
yesIcomplainloudly
@White Rabbit The people that answer the WH Complaint Hotline are VA employees at the Wash. DC VA Hospital. There are about 21 of them assigned to “The DC Hotline” to be increased to @ 45 in Aug or Sept. This is what “The Shulk” created to uphold Trump’s past talk to create a WH hotline. It is entirely smoke and mirrors. The VA employee who answers and you talk to just refers you to an “expert” who will call… Read more »
CarolJ
CarolJ
Lol you can’t get VA to fit the performance especially when most the people that work at VA or not veterans and treat veterans like shit. Sorry if that offends you but I can provide your names if you want to try to fix it I already have tried. That’s broke too! You can’t even get VA to figure out how to use choice but to pocket the money and make the veterans suffer from poor care. They insisted to… Read more »
OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

The VA is the twilight zone
Golden Earring – Twilight Zone – YouTube
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIaaBuGNwNw”

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE
WHEN THE GOLDEN SACK SPEAKS OUR GOV LISTENS ….Everyone need’s to listen to the sack Goldman Sachs thinks the opioid crisis is so bad it’s affecting the economy | Follow The Money “https://seeker401.wordpress.com/2017/07/18/goldman-sachs-thinks-the-opioid-crisis-is-so-bad-its-affecting-the-economy” It’s a been a puzzle for economists: Why aren’t more people actively looking for work again with the job market so strong? Part of the answer may be opioid addiction, the Goldman report suggests. These people are delusional just like the VA….They are just worried no one… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

“GOLDEN SACK”….LMAO! I needed that tongue-in-cheek humor this a.m., thanks, OLDMARINE! It’s also a bull-dike market, as long as you are a VA upper SES’er these Graves days. 🙂

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

When you live by your self and don’t talk to people very often, U got to humor yourself..LOL …And your right about the dykes queer’s child molester’s, blood drinking satin worshiper’s I could go on but won’t …..That’s the only way you get to join the money grabbing club and get a promotion for it, with a nice BONUS ..LOL SACKS AGREES …read the article it’s madding

namnibor
namnibor
“[…Presently, the statistical models formulated by the data do not accurately reflect the reality of health care administration in the agency. Just think, after VA failed to protect veterans getting screwed by VA employees rigging the metrics to increase productivity numbers in 2014, VA has still not created accurate metrics to more properly measure performance at any VA facility….]” The only numbers the VA remotely cares about is their performance bonus dollar amounts and wasting taxpayer $$$ designated for Veteran’s… Read more »
OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

Have been waiting for daylight since 12:30 this morning so I can get outside and wander like a nomad… LOL

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@OLDMARINE – – – Keep doing this every morning, and you might find a mate. LoL – – – The Nutter.

Following on and off . . .

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