VA Demotes Combat Veteran For NFL ‘Dance Monkey Dance’ Facebook Comment

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VA demoted a combat veteran after he published a “dance monkey dance” critique on Facebook criticizing NFL players for kneeling during the national anthem.

Providence regional office manager Stephen Pina was demoted last Friday following a brief investigation into statements he made during his personal time from his personal computer on Facebook while watching an NFL game.

Pina was reportedly upset that NFL players on the Patriots refused to stand for the anthem. Following the NFL players’ exercise of their apparent free speech to protest the anthem, Pina took to Facebook and demanded the players “dance monkey dance.”

Pina claims his comments were not intended to be racist. Instead, he claims he meant the players should do what they are paid to do, not make political statements, but “dance.” So, while the NFL plays assert their right to political speech in a critique of the government, one government worker’s political speech against their political speech got Pina into trouble.

“It was not meant to be a racist comment, and if it was taken as such that’s regrettable,” Pina said. “At heart, it wasn’t intentional. … It wasn’t meant to be that way.”

Was this racist or offensive speech? Or, was this Pina’s critique of NFL players engaging in political speech before a football game? Who has more of a right to speak their mind in this context, a private citizen on Facebook or millionaire NFL player on national TV?

Dance Monkey Dance In Pop Culture

For some context, the phrase “dance monkey dance” has been used regularly as a catchphrase to poke fun at the target of the statement for lacking intelligence. As an attorney, my first stop in assessing Pina’s reference was to see if I could find pop culture references or if any reference phrase “dance monkey dance” were plainly racist.

According to Wikipedia, the phrase “dance monkey dance” originally surfaced in a movie called The Cape Town Affair, in 1967. It was made popular as a catchphrase following an SNL skit “Dance, Monkey, Dance!” in the 1980’s.

Since that time, it has been used in numerous movies and skits as a joke making fun of unthinking humans. Zoolander is a recent example where Ben Stiller is playing a dimwitted model dressed up like a monkey with cymbals and ordered to “dance monkey.”

A similar derivative, “Dance, Monkeys, Dance” was used by author Ernest Cline in 2013 to describe the human race including whites and blacks and everything in between. Cline seems to intend the phrase’s use as a satirical critique of the humans.

In these instances, the phrase appears to be derogatory or artistic or comedic but not necessarily racist but a critique of the person’s intellect. Its use could certainly hurt someone’s feelings, though its use as a common catchphrase in pop culture erodes any assertion that use of the phrase is automatically racist.

However, the isolated term “monkey” has obviously been used in a racist manner.

In another Zoolander segment (above), Zoolander impersonates a monkey hitting a computer after coming out of blackface. Blackface is generally considered offensive, but is it offensive in the context of making fun of self-important runway models through satire?

Context matters when assessing these issues, especially for federal employees who have constitutional rights and protections to engage in political speech when offduty.

Reaction To Dance Monkey Dance

Nonetheless, the statements created a stir because the Patriot players happened to be non-white. The NAACP spoke out over the controversy.

VA quickly took action against Pina and demoted him, apparently concluding the phrase was used in an offensive or unacceptable manner.

“VA does not condone or tolerate such unacceptable and offensive comments from any of our employees,” said Curt Cashour, press secretary for the Department of Veterans Affairs, in an email to The Enterprise. “That’s why we have proposed demoting this employee and removing him from his management/supervisory role.”

Press secretary Curt Cashour said Pina has one week from the date of the proposed disciplinary action to respond. It will be interesting to see what Pina does.

As to “unacceptable” or “offensive” speech, Cashour is apparently referencing some restriction on 1st Amendment free speech enacted by VA that allows punishment statements that are hateful or racist.

Time will tell if VA is on the right side of this speech debate given the possible constitutional issues, the context of the statements and their use in pop culture, now.

Pina has been employed by VA for over 10 years. At Providence regional office, he supervised 157 federal employees and earned a salary of $120,000. This means he can afford an employment attorney, so I would expect to see VA explain their position in court at some point in the future.

More Perspective – Very Brief Online Research

Personally, after over 40 years on this planet, I have heard “monkey” used as a derogatory term or critique of a person’s intelligence or as a racist pejorative. Sometimes the speaker means it to have racial connotations but sometimes not, so it is prudent to evaluate the context of the statement.

A quick review of Google reveals numerous examples of the phrase being used in a derogatory manner or a racist manner, depending on the website.

“So easy a monkey can do it.” – 26,900,000 search results

Here are some companies, web pages, YouTube videos, or advertising associated with or using this exact quote:

“Dance monkey dance.” – 77,000 search results

Here are just a couple examples I could find using the actual phrase in question ranging from a video game to the Muppets.

Monkeys In Science

I have also heard the term used to describe federal employees not allowed to think while performing their jobs but instead only pushing buttons – – like a button pushing monkey.

This obviously relates to numerous experiments and exercises involving monkeys pushing buttons during language and learning experiments that most kids see in elementary school when introduced to kiddy “science.”

Racist Use Of “Monkey”

That aside, there is no question “monkey” is also used in a racist manner. We need to look no further into our past than all the various depictions of former President Barack Obama with big ears or with his face pasted onto a monkey body.

Sexual References Of A Person’s “Monkey”

There are also numerous pop culture references to “monkey” in the sexual sense, but I probably do not need to get into that, here.

Careful With Facebook Posts – Conclusion

In this context, given the phrase’s use in pop culture and context of the statement, it seems likely Pina did not intend the statement as a racist or overtly offensive statement.

Instead, I suspect he intended it as a critique of the NFL members’ political speech that is a critique of American policies and President Donald Trump before an NFL game.

I wonder who a judge would conclude has the greater right to free speech in this instance; the at-will NFL employee where policies prohibit the form of speech undertaken (NFL policy requires standing for the national anthem) or the federal employee with constitutional rights protecting their job and right to free speech while at home offduty?

My best guess is VA may be playing to demands for punishment due to bad press and the drive for political correctness over common sense that may cost taxpayers a lot if Pina’s 1st Amendment rights were violated.

Either way you come down on this issue, the important take away is that the government is always watching what you do and say on Facebook. So are your employers, including the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Be smart about what you post and know it could come back to bite you on the butt.

Sources:

http://www.enterprisenews.com/news/20171002/veterans-affairs-demotes-brockton-man-for-offensive-nfl-comments

http://www.enterprisenews.com/news/20170928/vet-says-brockton-man-behind-patriots-monkey-remark-created-toxic-workplace

UPDATE:

Check Out How YouTube Treats “Monkey”

Google MonkeyFollowing the publication of this article, I ran across another line of reasoning worth noting.

Google’s product YouTube promises to censor all racist and offensive videos from the platform. The image above is a YouTube generated image when I made an incorrect search on that platform using the wrong URL for the video.

Does YouTube mean I am a monkey for screwing up my video search?

Additionally, all those videos are still on the YouTube platform meaning Google does not believe use of the phrase “dance monkey dance” is inherently racist. The context matters.

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Oldmarine
Oldmarine

Football, baseball, basketball, It’s so stupid a cave man wouldn’t do it, or watch it…If he could

namnibor
namnibor

All organized sports serve the exact replacement of the Roman’s Coliseum with Christians & Lions. No hungry lions being fed nor gory blood, but serves as a blowout valve for society’s aggressions…but not for all and for some, the kneeling of the lions has had a paradoxical reaction in incurring aggressions. RAND recommends staying clear of any flying monkeys because they fling poo.

WyldeChylde
WyldeChylde

I’d much rather have the lions back…

namnibor
namnibor

The Christians caused serious gastro issues to the lions.

namnibor
namnibor

The Lions pointed at the dancing monkeys for replacements for the Christians. They replaced the Christians with a pigskined ball. 🙂

Francisco
Francisco

We now have Alka-Seltzer.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

Quote; “VA does not condone or tolerate such unacceptable and offensive comments from any of our employees”, said Curt Cashour,”:
Well I guess it’s ok for anyone sitting in front of the Congressional VA Committee, and telling bald faced LIES is “acceptable and not offensive!”
Or, I guess it’s ok to be part of a “armed robbery”and still work for VA.
Or, I guess it’s ok to be a “Convicted Sexual Pervert”, and still work for VA.
Or, I guess a person illegally using taxpayers monies, as Rep. Trey Gowdy has stated, to go on a vacation with the wife, is acceptable and not offensive.
Or, I guess it’s ok for VA management to use taxpayers monies for their own use, as has been reported numerous times, is acceptable and not offensive.
Or, I guess it’s ok for VA employees to not help in processing claims in a timely manner is acceptable and not offensive.
Or, I guess it’s ok for VA employees/management to be “vindictive towards whistleblowers” is acceptable and not offensive. [Especially when its a violation of federal law.]
The list goes on and on and on and on and on……from one of the most corrupt and egregious government agency around!

I sure hope that Mr. Steven Pina sues the crap out of VA over this issue!
I also wonder IF the union will defend Mr Pina. As they have defended many crimes by VA employees in the past?

Oh, I forgot. And this is coming from a reprobate, Curt Cashour, who defended Secretary of VA, Shulkin and Wife, for illegally wasting taxpayers monies on a trip to Europe recently!
Damn, that $25 million dollar a year VA Public Relations Firm is going to have to work lots of overtime on this and other issues coming into the light!

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Yes efl, kickem in da nuts. Rat Basturds, every single one of them. Fuck you VA. Oh and hey, if you’re watching me, please put me in the spotlight. VA you’ll look like a fool if my story goes National. Come on, put me in the headlines. Bitches. – – – Nutter.

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

no one except the DOC wants you in the spotlight..

namnibor
namnibor

This specific firing of a VA manager protesting the protestors (getting hard to keep track of who is who) is nothing more than an extension of butthurt snowflakes still mainlining Obama feel-good vibes, however, if you get caught killing a Veteran in his hospital bed the AFGE will protect your ass even from blunt force murder of a Vet by a VA Med-Tech Hack.
Note: these protests of kneeling and even aggression towards those that have served are essentially the same as them wiping their asses with the flag. These asswipes make millions of $$$$ so I say if you do not like it, please allow me to help you pack for your one-way trip to wherever.
RANT OUT.

Francisco
Francisco

I need a little clarification on the multiple blunt force trauma used that eventually ended the disabled veteran’s life in a VA facility bed after he fought the VA employee from forcibly sodomizing him. Did the VA employee make any racist comments? Thank you

namnibor
namnibor

I simply ceased watching any organized sports. Done. Even considering ditching cable because I am SICK of these butthurt snowflakes. It’s a full moon, so expect web attack from flying monkeys that may or may not dance. 🙂

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

namnibor, have you seen where a VFW post in Ohio is NOT putting the sports games on TV in their lounge?
I wonder what the VFW State and National Department’s thought of this?!
I believe the “post” would have had to vote on this to stop putting the sports games on TV. If so, then maybe those in State and National Department’s have little to no say on the issue!

namnibor
namnibor

Yeah, all well and good, but it’s a rather pacifist way to fight back, taking away the game/TV for everyone…almost like some demented childcare center rules. This also may drum-up fresh meat…err, membership dues. 🙂

Francisco
Francisco

In the early 70s, I tried to join the VFW and they turned me down because they said “you guys lost the war”. Now, since most of them are dead and pushing up daisies, they want me to join. No one thanked me for my service back then, so what has changed? All I ask is for the ones that did not thank me back then to thank me now, and not just insult my actions for putting my education on hold to go fight an unpopular “Police Action” because it was not a war, or else the bitch would have been tried for treason.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Francisco, it wasn’t nice to be in the military right after the needle pointed to “US losing the Police Action Conflict.” Moral sucked. Army and Navy accepted criminals in exchange for their jail time. It was hard to fit in. Caused me much anger due to protecting myself, my friend, and other colleagues. Have to stop, vivid daydreaming occurs, followed by ranting. Hate this agitating PTSD. It hurts everyone involved, and especially your love ones that are around you. I struggled with PTSD, but in denial for decades. Even the VA, as a supposedly medically seasoned PTSD treatment resource for Vets, has miserably failed me due to the new medication guidelines. Many Vets are now suffering again. Unreal. – – – Nutter.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

Here’s a must read for everyone,
From:
“The Conservative Free Press”
By; Andrew
Posted 2 days ago online.
(10 comments worth reading)
Titled:
“A Communist Graduated From West Point. Now Republicans Want Answers”

In the article, it’s reported he’s not only a communist, he’s also “…a supporter of Antifa…”!
Congressman Marco Rubio, (R-Fl), is really upset about this. He’s calling for the guy to be kicked out of the Army and repay ALL monies for the education he received at West Point.
You may, or may not, know who got the communist and Antifa sympathizer the appointment at West Point – a Democrat! Who would have thought it, right!

Dina Padilla
Dina Padilla

ANTIFA & other far left “progressive” groups ARE funded by the communists. (Commifornia)

Francisco
Francisco

I thought the discrimination, segregation, biases, prejudices was only against the Irish? I feel like rip-van-winkle, what changes have occurred; what used to be wrong is right today, and what used to be right is wrong now. Maybe Jerry Springer is offering us a window into the future?

Lem
Lem

Like the video. Like the article. But it probably won’t take much investigation to see where this guy was coming from. Still there is enough in this article to get him off unless he makes rampant racist remarks somewhere. In any case it adds to the focus on the issue.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Shows how others are held by a fucking different standard. True flag waving Libturds. Let me tell you how to run your life, but don’t tell me how to run mine. I hear and see this all the time. And, in this case, Cashour didn’t focus on the issue of this particular incident. Could of picked a clear cut case to make a firm but sound example of what’s not acceptable. – – – Nutter.

Oldmarine
Oldmarine

Traveling Wilburys – Tweeter And The Monkey Man
Tweeter and the Monkey Man were hard up for cash They stayed up all night selling cocaine and hash To an undercover cop who had a sister named Jan For reason…

namnibor
namnibor

“Shock The Monkey” – Peter Gabriel
“Shock the monkey to life
Shock the monkey to life

Cover me when I run
Cover me through the fire
Something knocked me out’ the trees
Now I’m on my knees
Cover me, darling please
Monkey, monkey, monkey
Don’t you know when you’re going to shock the monkey

Fox the fox
Rat the rat
You can ape the ape
I know about that
There is one thing you must be sure of
I can’t take any more
Darling, don’t you monkey with the monkey
Monkey, monkey, monkey
Don’t you know you’re going to shock the monkey

Wheels keep turning
Something’s burning
Don’t like it but I guess I’m learning

Shock! Watch the monkey get hurt, monkey

Cover me, when I sleep
Cover me, when I breathe
You throw your pearls before the swine
Make the monkey blind
Cover me, darling please
Monkey, monkey, monkey
Don’t you know you’re going to shock the monkey

Too much at stake
Ground beneath me shake
And the news is breaking

Shock! Watch the monkey get hurt, monkey

Shock the monkey
Shock the monkey
Shock the monkey to life”

Oldmarine
Oldmarine

VA provides on-site assistance, counseling following Las Vegas shooting; Operation Song helps Veterans tell their stories through music October 6, 2017 9:22 AM
From:
:chuckle:
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

Must be a bunch of thin skinned VET’S out there these days….U couldn’t insult me if you tried…Just don’t put your hand on me…LOL….Or you could just follow the bouncing ball and sing along with MITCH which most prefer and Rand Corp. approved so you don’t have to worry about anyone’s 😉 feelings

Francisco
Francisco

Oldmarine, I must agree to disagree, so we must pray for sin city. Can you fathom how much one lunatic is going to cost the mob? I know the media moguls are loving it; though they don’t show it, it only shows in their bottom line. But lets think of the upside, he was not a veteran, convicted felon, history of mental illness, etc… and his girlfriend was a minority. He probably worked for the VA somehow because it does not make sense.

Oldmarine
Oldmarine

media moguls, the mob, Sheldon Adelson, They all sleep in the same bed.

Eerie Predictions in Vegas… Cui Bono?
“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNqxUuyHFzc”

Oldmarine
Oldmarine

“An illusion it will be, so large, so vast it will escape their perception. Those who will see it will be thought of as insane.

Francisco
Francisco

Giggles, don’t trust the monkey.

Donald Avant
Donald Avant

So…VA employees can commit all kind of mayhem and still be on the job with no repercussions..Overprescribe to the point of getting thousands of Vets hooked on Opioids‎ then cutting them off with no recourse resulting in suicides…cobble up phony wait lists that cost Vets lives to preserve their bonuses…waste BILLIONS at Aurora…be a registered sex offender…get arrested for drunk driving and illegal possesion of pain pills…even kill a Vet supposed to be on their care by beating him to death…and still remain on the job.. This guy makes a remark, on his own FB page, on his own time, that offends some twinkee NFL official, and he’s INSTANTLY demoted?

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

as a federal employee… no such thing as own time…

Donald Avant
Donald Avant

I would think that if i was in my own home, on my own computer, on my own FB page I would be on my OWN TIME..IMHO..

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

you may think…. but you’d be wrong…..

Donald Avant
Donald Avant

You’re gonna have to elaborate a little more on your position before you convince ME…

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

there is no need to convince you.. just stating the facts.

Donald Avant
Donald Avant

Just saying “just stating the facts.” doesn’t prove ANYTHING..Please tell me how I’m wrong…use actual arguments, give examples, and PLEASE don’t assume you’re “right” just because you think so…

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

Am I trying to prove anything, to anyone ? This is not court. I am sure you know enuf federal employees above GS 11 who will tell you the same thing… It’s not even debatable .

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Yo, Frances Beard, Dance Monkey Dance!!!

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

Exactly what i expect from a deplorable. .. Ben certainly has his work cut out for him.. engaging such a group on a daily basis.
with anonymous accounts… brave man to be anonymous.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Dance Monkey Dance!!!

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Oh and Frances did you get a chance to pick up Hillary’s new book. Not to spoil it but she does lose in the end. So keep on Dancing the Monkey Dance!!!

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

Hey, Seymore,
These kinds of articles sure do bring out the “Hillary Clinton Crime Family” supporters!

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

WARNING. Hillary Harkards are in the mix. Deplorable. You still sore because she lost. Get over it! Move on with your life. Asswipe. Can’t figure out if your the paper, or none.

Just by you mentioning anonymous accounts tells me that you’re a behind the scenes push over butt kisser. Belongs to a cliché too. Your type shines so ever dull. – – – Nutter.

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

why would i be “sore” (idiot speak) about Hillary Clinton. I did not vote for her. I am waiting for a flight from Katowice, otherwise ,I would not waste time /energy on someone like you…

FRANCES Beard
FRANCES Beard

What’s your real name …. Anyone who does not have the balls to say what they feel w/o an anonymous account is the textbook definition of a spineless coward. How do you stand up w/o a spine?

Mike Warren
Mike Warren

I agree, FRANCES Beard. The bigger the mouth the smaller the brain. This idiot isn’t worth responding to. Just another ‘wanta-be’. You are 100% right on with being a Fed Employee – your life belongs to the machine.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Mike I do agree with you on one thing that you have posted so far and that is where you said “bigger the mouth the smaller the brain”.

After your racist and anti-Semitic rant below we should call you pea brain for short!

The comment I am referring to is at:
“http://www.disabledveterans.org/2017/10/06/va-demotes-combat-veteran-for-nfl-dance-monkey-dance-facebook-comment/#comment-91591”

Hey pea brain did you happen to see the menorah behind Fran in her profile pic?

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Seymore Klearly – – – I didn’t notice the menorah in the picture. Its funny. Many of the Jewish descent participate and promote the left’s agenda. Good eye. – – Nutter.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Dick tater. Bingo! 2 points, – – – Nutter.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Again, a Dick tater. Certain words are like triggers that set off a mind set that has nothing to do with the context. Same ole stanky swampy cliché of a bunch. When a VA Sec. is appointed that truly has integrity, many will be removed from the staph of the VA. Better make sure that the Union covers your damn butt. – – – Just give me kiss . . . , like this . . . , Nutter.

Francisco
Francisco

Where do poverty stricken people save, borrow, or steal just to go watch a bunch of multimillionaires play with a ball that is not even round? They call it “foot” ball and they don’t even use their feet on the ball. Well, only when desperate. Hello!

Peter Kreutzfeldt
Peter Kreutzfeldt

does it really matter what one person said. The VA will use anything and everything to divert from a the real issue. That being the lack or void of the medical services were entitled to due to the incompetence by some of the people working at the VA

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Cashour should focus on demoting and firing the many other VA employees reported on in Ben’s articles. At least Cashour can obtain many leads from reading the contents on this site. Ben is actually helping you to do you damn job. Asshole. A stanky one at that.

Definitely in a mood. – – – Nutter.

VET1
VET1

No Administration will come ever come to Veterans Defense. It’s appallingly that Veterans think a new president will overhaul the VA. Sit back and continue to watch shit stay the same.

The manager involved will be fighting the Government on this issue. He is not fighting the “VA”, he is fight the SOVEREIGN. What kind of idiot let’s his job or position be known on Facebook. Or allows co-workers to follow him on FB. The entire issue with the National Anthem is absurd. Anyone who has ever taken the oath of enlistment swears or affirms to support and defend the United States Constitution, not the flag or national anthem. I will always stand for the national anthem, because I honor my brothers, sisters and the all fallen hero’s. People call the anthem homage to Veterans. How about they pay homage at all times instead of sitting back and doing nothing as Veterans parish at the hands of negligent VA providers. Or paying homage and processing Veterans Claims expeditiously. The flag and national anthem are symbols. The same people who cry and claim to bleed for this country are the same people who have never served, nor put this country before themselves. I laugh when I see all of the BS circulating and people claiming to support Veterans, the military, first responders and police officers. These same people gave me attitude as an miltary cop, drank under age, beat their wives, fought in the dorms, were UCMJ’ed for hazing, and made the police blotter on Monday mornings. A bunch of disrespectful, self serving hypocrites. The entire national anthem narrative is baseless rhetoric with the intent to distract on the real issues. Veterans will be so engulfed in this rhetoric and forget the real issues and that nothing is being done to improve the ongoing VA systemic issues.

Department of Justice attorneys will defend the VA in any and all capacities. People need to wake up and realize that in every Administration the “President” will never rise up and come to Veterans defense. When Veterans or VA employees sue the “VA”, the are actually suing the United States of America. AKA the “Government” in Federal Court. Which is essentially the current Administration and every person in the United States. Not once since Trump has been in office has he said anything derogatory about the VA. He blasted the VA on the campaign trail, but that quickly ceased when he took office. You won’t ever again hear Trump blast the VA. Why? Because his words WILL be used in Federal Court against him to support an argument that points to known VA incompetence or mal-practice. And the VA’s poor conduct reflects poorly on HIM.

Do not be foolish to think that he is not aware of the BS that occurs in VA hospitals and regional offices around the world. The Choice Program is an absolute bust, and the VA does not pay community providers on time or at all. This is going to domino and community providers will stop accepting choice for reimbursement.

A Veterans family from the Fort Hood area sued in 2015 after he committed suicide on the same day he was in the care of a VA Psychiatrist. Hartbarger was his name. His family was defeated by DOJ attorneys after a bench trial and the Judge ordered that the Plaintiffs pay court costs (most likely over $50,000)and take NOTHING. DOJ attorneys painted his family as outright dysfunctional, and paid no credit to his service. This Veteran suffered from a diabilating injury and was always in pain. Government attorneys made this Veteran appear to be a junky, despite having server for at least a decade. People believe all of the rhetoric they read or watch on TV. No one is talking about this case, and it will pass on unnoticed. It is a victory for the VA. Meaning Veterans families who attempt to sue the Government for suicide are going to be slapped with the adjudication on the merits of this case. The Government essentially argued that the Veteran would have ultimately killed himself anyway.

Employees that work for the VA are essentially immune from prosecution. So yes, they will continue to do whatever they want to do to Veterans. While every 5-10 years or so the Government “makes” an example out of a few.

Look at the PA who sexually abused all of the Veterans in Kansas. The Government did not prosecute this individual. They allowed the State of Kansas to do so. Why? Because over 70 Veterans sued the Government for his conduct. Cases are now being settled quietly. The Government did not seek to prosecute him, it would be admission of liability. This PA assaulted Veterans at the VA on Government property. People overlooked that the Government didn’t prosecute him. When it comes to money and an admission of liability, the Government will forgo prosecution despite the repugnant conduct of a VA employee. The Government said they were not representing this person, but in reality they were and denied liability. They argued he was not acting in the scope of his employment. The Judge denied their motion to dismiss. DOJ steps in the place of any VA employee or doctor and will fight like hell.

The VA is not afraid of any story being published or going national. They don’t care, and will step in Federal Court on any given day via a well polished DOJ Attorney and DENY any and every single allegation made by anyone.

Warhorse
Warhorse

WOW, butt hurt VA is really becoming unhinged about a monkey…….what about all the monkeys at Ft Dietrick for testing purposes???? Imagine a few lab techs discussing the days work. ” hey Bob, what did you do today”? Bobs answer, ” gassed a few monkeys with burn pit, sarin, vx, you know the drill Ed”.

I probably just started a shit storm…… oh well, I’m gonna go Spank the Monkey…….Fuck VA, Fuck AFGE…..

NiteWish
NiteWish

I’d bet this is all about the new Law taken out of context “S.Res.118 Anti-hate Resolution” condemning hate crime, any form of racism, religious, ethnic bias, discrimination, incitement to violence, animus targeting a minority in the United States

Francisco
Francisco

Pedophiles are a minority, I hope, I pray, I believe; are they protected too? Don’t include priests because they then lose their minority status.

NiteWish
NiteWish

Francisco, Are you being sarcastic? Or did you just confess to all of us that you are a Pedophile? If so, I hope a certain someone here does the research on you & gets you out of here. We tolerate a lot but abusing children is not one of those things. Did you even READ the law before you commented. For your info newbie ‘The purple Team’ refers to the way the (Indy VAMC) treats Veterans.

Oldmarine
Oldmarine

NiteWish…I took it at being sarcastic

Dennis
Dennis

Ten little monkeys jumping on the bed,
One fell off and bumped his head!
Called up the doctor and the doctor said,
“No more monkeys jumping on the bed!”

… who votes that I tell the kids at the swimming pool next summer that they are racist when they sing this song?

(Dr. Shulkin PLEASE put your hand down sir, it was a rhetorical question)

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Does this mean that VA employees will have to quit calling Veterans Test Monkeys, Lab Rats and Guinea pigs?

Al
Al

The point I see here is that the VA is more than willing to demote a “combat veteran” employee to help the VA’s image. The veteran employee is not demoted for a secret waitlist, intimidating a whistle blower, fraud, waste, and abuse of tax payer dollars, or any of the multitude of crimes that other employees have committed in the VA. No, this veteran employee gets punished for non-VA action performed outside the VA on his own free time. In what universe is so-called Political Correctness more important than the LIVES OF VETERANS.

It doesn’t matter whether it is about football or anything else. What matters is the VA, and the government in general, has taken a stand against free speech instead of cleaning out the real criminals. It’s time to demote the VA.

Francisco
Francisco

I agree with you, but no one put a gun to his head to take a $60 an hour job with plenty of benefits. If anyone is a monkey, he is, but he chose it. He practically unwittingly signed part of his 1st amendment rights with the hourly compensation, or salaried. Does it matter what you do on your time, or does it matter what you do on the job? So the off duty cop beats his wife, kids, and dog, smokes medical weed, gets plastered drunk in his home, and watching the raunchiest pay per view crap, and not in that order. Wouldn’t you say that he willingly and unwillingly written and unwittingly sign away some of his constitutional and/or civil rights? Of course not! This is America and we all have the God giving gift of choosing to be stupid. I agree that you are right and I am wrong. See how easy to end an argument. As the old adage goes “Who is the bigger fool, the fool, or the one who argues with the fool?” I disagree with the VA decision, and if on a jury, I would support the employee; even though, he is an idiot making $60 an hour. If I wasn’t as disabled, and was able to earn minimum wage, I would just smile and do my job and represent my employer’s image on and off the clock.

Dennis
Dennis

I am proud to live in a place that I can spew forth all sorts of vile hate filled rhetoric targetting the most powerful people in our land with little fear for my own life by doing it. It makes no difference to me who bends their knee to what ruler nor who pledges their allegiance to whom so long as the guns and bombs and other things that we have devised to use against our enemies are not pointing inward upon ourselves.

These NFL boys who see the spotlight are moved to do their part to change the world and I am ok with that. I am ok with the anger that they meant to stir up too though I do despise unnecessary incitement to anger.

From my perspective any man who dons pads, a helmet, and a jock strap and cup, and then proceeds to get their skull and all other thusly protected parts bashed on repeatedly in pursuit of putting a pill shaped piece of pig skin across a white line in the grass is just bound to be full of ideas different from my own. Same thing with a VA manager making a six figure income; his world and my world are so far apart a sub-space message would take weeks to arrive.

The question is not about racism and it is not about Constitutional protections at all. The question is about worlds. NFL players and VA managers both live in completely different worlds than I do. Most of you reading this do too, or so my mental health care professionals would have me believe.

What I have learned though at dear cost is pretty simple; we can be from different worlds and still live in peace. Peaceful co-existance is the fruit of a strong Constitution, not the mandate.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Don’t know about that place you live in but I do know that your neighbor is named Fran from Puget Sound. She is not very tolerant with VA employees using free speech and them using such derogatory terms such as Dance Monkey Dance against the NFL players taking a knee.

But clearly she has no problem with free speech when she is the one speaking.

Demonstrated by her coming to this website filled with disabled Veterans and calling us deplorables and spineless cowards.

Hope you will not mind my use of free speech and provide this person a message. So to this VA employee who is the same person that is disrespecting the menorah by displaying it tilted sideways and totally disrespecting Disabled Veterans intelligence I have one thing to say to you.

Dance Monkey Dance

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

I’ll supply a few bunch of ripened nanahs (not a misspelling) to support the dancing monkey’s doing the jig. – – – Nutter.

Francisco
Francisco

Touche! And to add: guns are for the government to fear the people and not the people to fear the government. Ruby Ridge comes to mind, and Waco, and both Wounded Knee, and…

James Alto
James Alto

Well we can all get around the subject. I am a Vietnam/Cambofia veteran and it is disrespect able not to stand up! Do it in a different arena! We were yelled at and spit on and called baby killers when we came home. I just want the respect of others at some time for my service. So I do resent others not standing up for our country for it hurts all of us once again and further divides this great nation! We can all feel your pain but also see mine! Enough said

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Ben, since there is a shortage of Attorneys that know, and represent Veterans with VA Medical Malpractice Law Suits, are there any type of grants, or monies to either help young inspired, good-hearted attorneys to obtain the credentials affording them the opportunity to try such cases? I’m aware that VA Medical Malpractice is a complicated framework of edits and legislation, cases are time consuming, and the VA in many cases, aren’t cooperative.

I’ve been participating with your site for a short while now, and I can’t grasp WHY IN THE HELL isn’t there a great push to make sure that the VA is running efficiently, especially since it deals mostly within the health industry. As a Biologist, I sometimes get stomach pains after reading such asinine behavior by VA employees and its leadership.

It REALLY bothers me when situations arise with the VA, its a black and white call (sorry, I didn’t mean to use colors), and the VA then will twist things up by taking them out of context, or because they made a decision its already a just action, or the VA completely misses that mark by not admitting that it was there fault, or that there are unsolved issues with or against Veterans, and the same situation hasn’t been resolved in decades.

A monster on the move. Predictable to the point of knowing that the VA will act in wontonishing (made up word from wonton, not used much nowadays) strange ways. Many times not fitting with the situation that is at hand. Let me kneel down and stretch for a bit. – – – Nutter.

Francisco
Francisco

That was so racist “black and white” you left out my kind, the sick purple people.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Purple People has the pleasure of sitting back and watching all the stupid behaviors of the other colors screwing over each other due to lack of trust and respect for one another. I wish this would stop amongst us as Citizens. Immigration another thing that got all fouled up in the past. And now, there is a lot of blow back against our leaders that want to follow the law. We can’t blame those in charge if they’re following the law. – – – Nutter.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

From:
“American Action News”
via; “The Hill” by; Max Greenwood 10/06/2017
via: “The Associated Press”
Titled;
“DEVELOPING: This Traitor Has Just Plead Guilty!”

The article is short, sweet and to the point!

Doug Towsley
Doug Towsley

This is a slippery slope either way, I was canned from a Govt agency for ALLEGED issues like this. Its a long story but the real reason was I pissed off a manager so they amassed a long list of BS accusations over 2 years and said collectively I was a bad person,. Despite glowing endorsements and commendations. Simply put, anything you say or do can be taken out of context and used against you.

So, be very careful what you say or do that can be construed in a negative light.

As to facebook, only idiots post comments like that for all the world to see and then are dumbfounded when they get in trouble, Either set up an acct with a alter identity or nickname or self censor your opinions.

As a guy earning $120k a year posting that stuff shows very poor judgement. I agree we all have free speech, but Ill bet somebody had an axe to grind.

In my area numerous police have been disciplined or fired for similar posts. We even have a Portland cop who idolizes Nazis and was investigated for building a shrine on Rockey Butte lookout point to several famous Nazis. I am sure he was equally surprised when the news hit the wire.

I DO agree though that people are overly sensitive and get worked up over stuff that does not matter. But if you are a public employee or visible then you need to
use some common sense. And,, for the record there was a whole bunch of car dealer commercials locally called “The Trunk Monkey” and they were great. Nothing racist about them. One showed the driver pulling a lever and Trunk monkeys (Chimps) got out and changed the tire, Another showed Chimps getting out and attacking a car jacker/mugger with a tire iron,, each commercial ended with
“Thanks Trunk Monkey!” Other car dealers copied the ad and they were nationwide at other dealers for a while. Seems to me people were offended by those commericals too.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

“20 Trunk Monkey Ads in HD – BEST of the BEST! 2017 :-D”

Excellent commercials

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdeIpLTjD3M

Doug Towsley
Doug Towsley

Yes, thats the commercials I was talking about, I thought they were great, cant see why anyone would object to them, but some people did.

Francisco
Francisco

They objected to them because they are racist themselves and do not see the humor, only the sick racism in their minds. Just because you are paranoid does not mean you are not being followed.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

“20 Trunk Monkey Ads in HD – BEST of the BEST! 2017 :-D”

Excellent commercials

“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdeIpLTjD3M”

Francisco
Francisco

Where did you steal my family video commercials?

Francisco
Francisco

“As to facebook, only idiots post comments like that for all the world to see and then are dumbfounded when they get in trouble”
Something just came to mind, I would love to hear from the subordinates this guy supervised, I wonder if he has ever used the same tactic on them that his employer is using on him? I hope not, but if that is the case then it would be poetic justice, or if your religious, Karma. This victim can be the nicest guy, or the lowest of the low (a company man) to have gotten where he has gotten, I don’t know, but the question begs to be asked: Are we to judge on the act, or the character of the actor? Adolf Hitler made many comments in the early 30s, and was Man of the Year on American magazine and there is a cop out there that worships him. I pray that it is only one cop, unless you are in Chicago, then there is probably another one, but which one is he?

windguy
windguy

Gatdammit – I watched the Cline vid on monkeys and all of a sudden my thumbs started to stiffen up. Then I spilled my water when I tried to pick up the glass. Shit – it took me a half hour to type this. Thanks Ben.

namnibor
namnibor

Opposable thumbs are tricky even for monkeys. 🙂

Mike Warren
Mike Warren

Just stay off FB. The FB Jew boy hates America as much as the NFL Monkeys but always have their hands out for ‘mo’ money. Freedom in America is going the way of the Republic and our Constitution.

Stephen LeMaster
Stephen LeMaster

Well, at least we finally know what it takes to get demoted at the VA. If you concoct a scheme to skirt VA rules and defraud taxpayers of nearly $400K, as Diana Rubens and Kimberly Graves did, that ain’t enough.

On the other hand, if you make a comment on your own time on social media, that’ll get ‘er done if someone anysomewhere finds it offensive? We are living in strange times, my friend.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

I see one of Fran’s post has been removed. The cocktail comment is not meant toward Stephen Lemaster. It was to one of Fran’s posts.

TaB
TaB

Agreed. We have Directors/managers getting DUIs, caught with drugs they appear to have stolen from the VA, using government time to conduct side business (Puerto Rico and Tennessee VA offices), and they still have not even faced disciplinary and/or adverse actions…..but the VA makes time to demote some idiot for what he put on social media?????

Francisco
Francisco

You’re right “some idiot” making $120,000 a year. What combat veteran makes that kind of money? O.K., not a contractor, but here in the states, with only a GED.

Dennis
Dennis

It is hard to imagine that either of my two Italian Grayhounds would distinguish any human from apes if we all got together for a big party. The rub is that we hate being reminded that we are primates at all. Racism is just a form of self primate loathing – we first define an “us” then we define a “them”, then we begin slinging poo at “them”.

The hounds just see primtates slinging poo and smell the odor of mammal ass in the air. I USED to believe that somehow we as humanity had achieved a degree of sophistication above and beyond that of Mutual of Omaha’s wild kingdom friends but then again that always played back to back to Wonderful World of Disney too, right?

Still I had long clung to the hope that our opposable thumbs were proof of our inner goodness and I equated that with being more perfect than the other lower mammals in our family tree.

Then I was exposed to internet pornography. In less than 15 minutes, four decades of my delusions about humanity were shattered. I guess Meese Commission didn’t work out all that great? They were kind of worried about what people said and did too…

I am gonna vape some marijuanna and eat a bannana now – then walk to Starbucks which is an “opposable thumb only” kind of crowd and not the “other” kind. Yuck.

namnibor
namnibor

Jim here from Mutual Of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom; note that we human primates also actively flung poo prior to the bears in the woods at Charmin producing toilet paper. Now only homeless vets and those primates that cannot afford luxury the bears provide in form of soft asswipes, still cling to the five finger fling.

Dennis
Dennis

@namnibor

…did you EVER wonder how much Mutual Of Omaha charged for an insurance policy to cover Marlin, the helicopter pilot, camera-man, and of course the Man On The Ground, Jim in case of accidental death, dismemberment, evisceration, or devourment?

They must have gotten a discount?

namnibor
namnibor

It was the Jurassic Umbrella Coverage Package, but it absolutely did not cover nosedives into erupting volcanoes. (earth’s burn pit)

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