Jim Turner Suicide Bay Pines VA

Retired Marine Col Ends Life Sitting On VA Records Outside Bay Pines VA

“I bet if you look at the 22 suicides a day you will see VA screwed up in 90%,” wrote Jim Turner, a retired Marine Colonel who took his own life with a rifle at a VA.

On December 10, after a major battle with PTSD, Turner woke up that morning with one purpose, to make a statement about how dismal VA treats veterans. He put on his dress uniform with medals, loaded his rifle, and drove to Bay Pines VA Medical Center.

Turner exited his truck armed with a loaded rifle and his VA records. He stacked those records high, sat on top of them, and took his own life while sitting on the records using his rifle.

The Marine veteran, who was well-known and well-respected in military circles, wrote about his post-military experience in his suicide note, “I did 20+ years, had PTSD and still had to pay over $1,000 a month health care.”

His suicide occurred just as GAO released its scalding report covering poor message management at VA concerning suicide. That report critiqued the agency for failing to spend its $20 million per year budget on continued suicide prevention messaging as it did until 2016.

The report highlighted, though, that a failure to spend the money was not necessarily the issue. The underlying problem was VA’s failure to account for how the millions in suicide advertising was truly benefiting veterans versus the advertisers working on the projects.

Apparently, in light of the continued suicide rates, the suicide prevention mission was turned into a cash cow for vendors without contemplating measuring the benefit to veterans. How typical?

As for Turner, his model military life turned upside down after he retired. According to Tampa Bay Times:

“My brother’s identity was being a Marine,” said Jon Turner.

Jim Turner flew F-18s and then became an infantry officer, taking part in the invasion of Iraq in 2003. He later served in Afghanistan and spent a decade working at U.S. Central Command at MacDill Air Force Base.

He left “an enduring legacy of professionalism, commitment and superior leadership which served as a guiding force for all service members whose lives he touched,” said Edward Dorman III, a recently retired Army major general who worked with Turner at Central Command for a decade. “That’s a life worth emulating.”

When Turner retired, he lost his identity and began to struggle, his younger brother said.

Those problems exacerbated some of the mental health issues Turner was experiencing from his time in the Marines, said his ex-wife, and led to the dissolution of their 27-year marriage,

“He came home seemingly fine,” said Jennifer Turner. “It was a couple of years later that he just got more aggressive.”

It was never anything physical, she said. “He just got agitated very easily. He had nightmares, where he would wake up screaming military stuff.”

This tragic story is one of many within the rank and file veterans the VA is required to help. Turner left behind two children who are heartbroken and in school. The family set up a Go Fund Me page for concerned Americans to donate in support of Turner’s kids.

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  1. R.I.P. I used to work for the DAV and dealing with the VA especially now that your record could be adjudicated at any RO in the nation it’s more difficult to deal directly with the person working the claim at the VA. If it is like this in the US now picture the thousands of veterans living abroad. I assisted many who live in Latin America that are in the dark and no nothing about how their claim is being process , if it is at all. Do not let frustration get the best of you, there are many VA employees who look after the best interest of the veterans, but their hands are tied with much red tape and the 38cfr.

  2. James Clement and my other brothers in the fight for deserved benefits.
    I have been advocating what James says in par 8, that Vets need to be represented by attorneys from the GITGO, as they are in civil cases.
    When the vet has all of the evidence he needs to prove his claim and it is denied, the Vet should also be allowed to have his attorney present his claim within 30 days in live hearing on the record where the persons who deny the claim must go on the record during the hearing. Most of the boobecrats who go on the record during this hearing will show themselves to be incompetent or motivated by other than a purpose to treat vets fairly and objectively. WITHIN 30 DAYS OF DENIAL OF BENEFITS A HEARING ON THE RECORD WITH THE VET’S ATTORNEY PRESENTING HIS EXPERT WITNESSES WILL REMOVE A LOT OF SLUDGE FROM THE PIPLELINE.
    Most importantly, allowing your claim to go to the Board of Veterans Appeals is giving all of the poop slingers in the VA an opportunity to pile their shit on you. A Hearing on the record where vets are represented by his/her attorney will cure 75% of the unfair denials of claim. During this hearing process the VA boobs denying the claim will not have the protection as witnesses as is accorded others in civilian litigation.
    The Congress has authorized the issuance to many vets a great popsicle and the VA has intervened to give vets SOS, Shit on a Stick. Get rid of the Unions in government.
    Too bad that Marine Colonel did not point his rifle with scope on the right individuals instead of pointing it at himself.
    When we Marines volunteer for a “suicide” mission, (where death is assured), STILL TRY TO TAKE OUT AS MANY OF THE ENEMY AS THEY/WE CAN.
    There is a way where we can raise enough money for each vet to be represented from the beginning.

  3. All right, The “American Carnegie” stops right fucking now! “Stop the fucking madness!” All COMBAT VET’s need the book; “Tears of a warrior!” Found on Amazon you can buy a used copy for around five dollars! Specificacally, @Lem, and Nick current getting fucked around on PTSD claims. All combat vets need this book like a fat kid needs cake! Before, the Long arm dick of the beuocratic VA tries to: “Deny, deny, deny!” All of you shit, and or take it away while having the odasity to play innocent, and smile in your fucking face!

    I dont care how much civilian buddy fucking horseshit “Therapy” the clueless VA bureaucrats try to force down your throat in “Group Therapy.” They are fucking clueless, and dont want to pay out so they can get permotions! If you don’t want to pay, then don’t fucking send them hooah! You will always have flashbacks, and body pain. Chapter four through eight explains: “Soldiering changes your biology!” Read, highlight, underline, study, and tab that shit!

    Somewhere around page eighty-eight, and the beginning of page eighty nine. Something the the effect, or affect of: (affect-effect. Yeah, I dont give a fuck in case you haven’t noticed”) its says: That shit changes your brains neuro-secitry for life.” Key word, “FOR LIFE”. No matter how many retarded ass posters the buddy fucking VA hangs up in the hall ways stating: “PTSD is majically healable!” Get the fuck out of here! ???Shitbags! You will never be able to unseen Metallica’s “blackened roar, massive roar fills the crumbling sky! CONSTANT CHILL DEEP INSIDE!” The above mentioned citation on Pg. 88-89 Proves this shit!

    Also, another book: “Forget me not” $65.00. expensive but, somewhere in that PC bullshit explains they are trying: “Memory minipulation.” Which is: “unfounded, new, not valid, And experimental” ????

    All so they can get undeserving permotions off the blood sweat and tears of front line Joe’s! PTSD Groups are a buddy fucking operation! Stay the fuck away from that shit! It’s a trap! (Traps) The counselor only tries to reduce and deny your shit!

    Go one on one with a counselor to talk about your shit, while filing your shit with a VSO. If they deny, good. Use a civilian lawyer like “Jan dils” or, someone else to run it right back up their ass! Peacefully, and anilitically of course!??

    Buy the tears of a warrior book, and start passing them out to other Joe’s so they dont get buddy fucked! Im going to start buying a shitload. Everytime I buy a new one and highlight it, and tab it. I run into a homeless Joe with no service connections getting fucked twelve ways from Sunday, so I give it to them. Walking around shaking, staring off into space muddled in thought. I’m like, hey you! Come here! Take this!

    Also, Nat Geo Feb 2015 “Unlocking the secrets of TBI.” Alot of Joe’s had that shit. If you dont buy it, and show it to all of the beauocrats at your next appointment between their ass grabbing pizza and cake party breaks for fucking Joe’s over, you could potentially get fucked! Just hate to see guys loose their wife, home, saved money, and dog like I did. Or worse, In some cases. like this example of one of our finest the HONERABLE Col. Sorry to see you go! RIP Sir! All because the buddy fucking ops at the VA are so thick!

    Please, brothers don’t take you own life. It just makes these PC, fucks smile inside. Dont give them the joy! Buy the tears of a warrior book, and give it to another joe! Then Buy another one, or buy them in bulk to pass out to joes!

    Another good book is: “Dishonoring the honorable.” For around fifteen bucks. It gives CFR laws and goes into detail about the claims process. Somewhere around 3.102 something to the effect of: “Benefit of the doubt rule shall be in favor of the veteran!” Or, another one is by law they are supposed to tell you what you can be service connected for. Do they? Fuck no! Just try to fuck you out of that shit.

    This book gives that law too, but Cant give the exact numbers because I gave that shit away a couple weeks ago to another Joe getting fucked further behind in the process. On some 12 bravo shit!

    Hope this helps. Very Respectfully.

    Dick Move,

  4. It is a shame in this case that VA medical confidentiality prevents the public from knowing all the facts. Having worked with veterans for many years at the VA, I never came across any vet who paid $1,000/mo for VA treatment. A retired career vet who had PTSD, and likely other health issues for which he was service connected, will rarely pay anything beyond a small sum for non-service connected treatment, if that. Highly SC vets pay nothing. Beyond that, a retired active military service man is entitled to Tri-Care medical insurance so has a back up plan.
    All the military suicides are a terrible tragedy. The vulnerability of some of these souls can take a toll on their resilience and rob them of their motivation to take advantage of available VA resources. VA workers are trained to be alert to vets that present as potentially suicidal and to make referrals to mental health providers when they are identified. Many are not identified because they conceal their thoughts about suicide or don’t respond to treatment. Unfortunately, we will not know the full story of what happened with this troubled vet unless a family member or friend comes forward with a more complete picture of what might have triggered his suicide. My heart goes out to the family members. I’m sure you tried to help to the best of your ability. Trying to meet the needs of potentially suicidal vets has to remain a top priority.

    1. He said $1,000 a month for medical care. My wife’s medical bill is paid by me. That is about right for one member on Medicare with diabetes plus a kid or two with medical problems. And if he wasn’t service connected his co-pay at the VA was means tested.

    2. He NEVER stated that he paid $1,000 a month for VA care. Get your facts, and reading comprehension straight. He said M – E – D – I – C – A – L care. Last time I checked, the VA was not the only entity providing that.

  5. One thing I am certain of; we have no answers. Only recently have I felt the VA to be a threat. I’ve become aware that it is. I go to a private doctor and with a minor physical examination, he begins saying words straight out of the VA’S lying mouth. Then he mentioned what team I am with at Roseburg VA.
    The VA wasn’t informed by me of this appointment. I paid the bill. He said he wouldn’t operate because I am, by VA directives, too weak. So I call Social Security. They said my address is wrong and won’t talk to me. Ya think I’m getting paranoid? Perhaps…

    1. Paranoid no, Healthy mistrust yes, sounds like a web of obstruction, VA directives are just obstructions.

    2. Said the hell with the VA and went to an outside spine clinic. Doctor treated me like shit, no exam and referred me back to the VA. What doctor on the outside can send you to the VA. Found he wasn’t a spine specialist but a psychiatrist that did his residency under VA doc and they told him was a drug seeker. Never abused medication in 10yrs and told PCP going and made sure they knew wasn’t asking for medication. They do not want a different diagnosis other than theirs, because they don’t fully report everything wrong. They all suck and treat like shit.

  6. We’re talking a PHD walking in an MD or NPs office. You know they’re going to bend over backwards for the PHD. More like,”What meds would you like? You want pain meds no problem. We won’t have you sign a pain contract.”

    You would be singing a different tune if you didn’t use your status. You’d then be just another veteran. It’d hurt your ego so you’ll play your cards to your advantage and lecture anyone else who doesn’t get the same privileges you enjoy.

    It must have been difficult convincing the medical board of your disabilities if it took 25 years. As smart as you claim to be you should have gotten it right away… or did you enjoy a full career then wait until retirement to get the free medical care and extra money every month.

    1. Good Morning, Dick Head! WTF? Must work at the VA or your satan’s messenger. Damn! No empathy at ALL? MORON!

  7. Veterans are not treated with the respect they have earned. Even after a veteran gets their disability approved, and their case closed, benefits assigned, they sit and wait for the man at the top in his cushy office to sign that one little last paper, that says they can now at least feed their family, and put a roof over their head. Knowing you have been awarded something that could help you, yet not knowing if you will ever get it is hard for a person suffering from ptsd. I worry about my son everyday, and he was a good marine, that will never be the same as when he enlisted. He feels robbed of his good future that he planned his whole young life!

  8. Here’s some skinny on Gene Snelling:


    1. James, good find, curious read and info. And very mainstreamish and traditional. With all due respect to him for the souls he may have saved or helped along their journeys of hell on Earth. Which is dulled by the cans that generation and the traditions of man that got kicked down the road to my generation. I better stop there.


      Been trying to find more info about this suicide but like with many other losses locally or nationally media acts like losers/traitors/censors, more info or possible witnesses input is omitted… by design. My sleepless nights ponderings;
      1. Why do families go silent or refrain from giving out more info or answer some questions? Is it because like some here locally that don’t want the enemies at their gates or loss of jobs? Like some closing down some suffering vets website or blogs trying to get attention or give others some info about dealing with government, medical fraud, mis-conduct, abuses, and corrupt officials? Trying to group up with others which is forbidden and unwanted by many. Too much truth will get out and cause some to get labeled or attacked by the corrupt machines/associations?

      2. Was his paper files stacked high and filled with garbage, interspersed with all those clinic notes, lost items, and manipulations or lies that other MDs, PCare givers or civvies don’t want to read or deal with? Might show how his PC types didn’t follow some specialist’s orders? Might stain some sacred cow’s image or the VA facade? Or something that makes others refrain from giving you copies of your own or refuse to pass them along to other MDs for better treatment but for the medical cabals protection? Things that may shine a light on VA or civy incompetence or for targeting? A bit too late for any privacy issues so we are left again with more questions than answers. Or is it all because of Indiana like politics now showing up openly in other places… “https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/” Some things/issues aren’t supposed to be discussed and why those ever contacted from A to Z refuses to do their jobs like Congress, state agencies, vet groups, the medical mafias, media, etc?

      From another site: Quote: THE ANTI-BDS ISRAEL OATH was included in Amawi’s contract papers due to an Israel-specific state law enacted on May 2, 2017, by the Texas State Legislature and signed into law two days later by GOP Gov. Greg Abbott. The bill unanimously passed the lower House by a vote of 131-0, and then the Senate by a vote of 25-4.” Un-quote. Do people – get it? Or care? Nope.

      Personally I’ve had my fill of lip-service and censoring. And of needless suicides on my B-day or holidays and the traditions of so-called civilized human-kind. In memory of “Bruce,” many others locally, including Jim Turner just spouting religion, prayers, MAY not be enough, is NOT enough. I don’t give a hoot where people come from or any letter of the alphabet or degree by their ego filled names. The ones claiming some church is needed is lame. Telling those they need “Jesus,” to repent, leave their meds on their alters and trust in Geeeeezus is not enough and totally foolish. Seen to much of all this crap full circle. Being told they are not giving more to the church or dumping all they have in the pass a-round plate for public show… is not enough and sick. Being told to forgive and forget the VA and many other’s evil ways is not enough or a good thing. Let’s all play door-mat for others, turn that cheek, bow down in silence, don’t offend anyone, don’t mention certain things or people, don’t discuss anything negative about some lousy “community” is not the answer either. Or telling them, us, to have complete trust in the “professionals” or some PC mental health facility or the ego filled college kiddies with book learn n’ is not enough. Being told “God has put those VA people and DC cliques in charge for a reason and to bow to them all…. IS REALLY pathetic, insane, lame, and illogical. To that God is punishing us and we deserve the pain and torment, we are here to suffer, is really over the line.

      Blast away. That is my sleepy pissed off rant for Xmas. Now point me to someone, some church, some vet group, etc., that is showing any signs of public outrage over these issues of suicides, the censoring, any standing up to the well established machines and corruption. Any of them really concerned over us, the vast difference in treatment, or care, or being targets while the faithful seem totally silent over it all? Oh we all live in caring tolerant loving “communities,” (college towns) built by the corrupt and communitarians/traitors/cowards. All those omissions and silence from all over really show how things are.

      1. @T – – – “It’s baffling that [the school district] can throw this [clause] down our throats and decide to protect another country [Israel]’s economy versus protecting our [US] constitutional rights. If I [signed the contract], I would not only be betraying Palestinians suffering under an occupation that I believe is unjust and thus, become complicit in their repression, but I’d also be betraying my fellow Americans by enabling violations of our constitutional rights to free speech and to protest peacefully.”

        I believe this young lady is correct in her reasoning on all counts. I wish her well with her lawsuit. I do note her clarity of thought, and understanding of just what being a moral, responsible American entails. And I applaud her willingness to stand up. She clearly has a far better ‘working knowledge’ of the Constitution of the United States than most of our citizens. She is fighting for two of our most basic and treasured rights as sovereign citizens.

        This is a woman I would love to have a three-hour lunch with. I am sure we would really have an interesting conversation.

        I most certainly agree with the remainder of your rant. I hope that your end-of-year holiday is a good one. I am going to make a valiant attempt to get some ‘extra’ sleep, then catch up on a few (non-fiction) books I have had lying around the house for a few months. I feel the need to silence all electronics for a week or so – – – and just curl up with my dogs.

        I also have a new pen (lovely gift from my wife) to break-in practicing my cursive writing. And some wonderful paper . . .

        One last thing, please drop an e-mail to “disgruntled.veteran@gmail” and I’ll let you know what has been happening with me. Can’t get into that other account.

  9. 90 percent, and I believe the Col knew the VA cared more about lining the pockets of advertisers, than it did with actual suicide prevention. PTSD is something the VA wishes would just go away, me too. This was not a selfish act.

  10. One question: Why isn’t this suicide a death by depraved indifference, and guilty party Is THE VA? This is why that law exists. TO All Veterans out there: We all know that THEY don’t care how we live, and THEY don’t care how we die. Suicides, don’t have as much punch as staying alive and IF we have to die trying, well that’s what we do.

  11. @Snelling, glad you took the PhD off your name on second pitiful comment. For unsure reasons, this suicide is a result of what many Veterans have said on this site. I remember some of us have mentioned that many Veterans suicides couldn’t be tied to the VA. This is. I’m feeling closer to this suicide. It hits home. I actually saw myself stacking up my records. As I see it. THE VA is responsible for the his death. I feel like we are leaving a man behind and Something needs to be done..God bless the Veterans and their families at this pressurized time of year.

  12. How many more lives need to be gone in suicide before the VA gets it’s shit together, Veterans will continue to pay the ultimate price before things change

  13. I have had positive and negative experiences with my VA healthcare and in seeking disability benefits. However with that being said, I think the strategy plan posted above is a great beginning to remedying this issue with the VA. It isn’t surprising that veterans can become angry when dealing with the VAHCS. One of the characteristics of unethical manipulation is “isolation”. By isolating someone or something (VAHCS) from outside influences the instigator is free to behave in whatever self-serving manner they desire as the people who are experiencing this type of abuse are vulnerable and haven’t any support system. This type of predatory behave occurs in all types of abuse issues that’s why being transparent is paramount and having access to more than one than option is crucial. Instead of giving veterans options for receiving their healthcare we have a complex and effective cover-up machine to manipulate the facts of the VA’s shortcomings. That’s why I vote to let veterans choose! Give them a card in order to receive care outside the VA and if they are happy with the care they receive within the VA, that is an option as well. I would use both.

    Be that as it may, I, myself need medical care, but I don’t pursue it because I have in the past sought care with the VA and have been very disappointed. So now my only options are to pay for it myself or not seek the medical attention I need. It is this exhaustion and hopelessness the creates the tragedy which we are all upset about today.

    What a loss – I’m heartbroken. There is a solution, let veterans choose their healthcare source.


  14. I know exactly how he felt. I have told shrinks suicidal, 3 attempts, they have sent police on welfare checks and hauled my ass in after they were spying on me on Facebook. Yet if looking my medical notes says no plan and ok. One time was not well and went to shrink and was crying needed help, told him at least 4 times if didn’t get help was going to kill myself. Said suicidal ideation but no plans and ok. Have a lot of these stories, no one wants suicide on their desk. How can they do this, no one smiles, has compassion and want nothing to do with their names going upstairs. People with degrees in mental health find quickly it’s tough getting a job in this field and the pay sucks. A federal job is like winning the lottery, great pay, benefits and pension. They know this and sit on their hands all day because the job is number one, they do what told knowing shady or wrong sometimes. There is no attempt to find qualified as long as they have a degree. Tragic a life is lost because of the umbrella care and are more interested in percentages where we have become numbers and no people. I went in my notes after my first visit with a shrink, going through notes after visits is a bad idea and would advise not to do, I read he wrote that I looked younger than expected. Wtf does that have to do with anything, checking around found he specializes in geriatric care. There’s no answer for any of this when people are more worried about how will look or re writing his visits to show care was perfect on their behalf. How do people turn off compassion and feelings that someone took their life because they failed to care. It is disgusting and other than entertaining themselves with gossip of a someone who took their life. It’s insane and a big reason I am locked inside my home with severe anxiety and no matter how I try I cannot step one foot outside the door. These horrific stories about death, abuse and people not qualified anywhere else is not mainstream news. I have no idea when my number will be called, but without any doubt the VA will be the reason. I wish could help but it took a long time to see how these scumbags operate and was only worried about me. By the time I was able to see the bigger picture, I was already toast and can’t take care of myself. God Bless

  15. While I believe the negative remarks about VA have some truth in them, there are some great doctors and other medical workers in the VA system. I am 100% 20 year retired Army Vietnam Disabled Veteran. It took me 25 years to get my 100% status. I have received excellent care from the VA in Florida and here in Georgia. Each primary care physician I have had has been fantastic, and even though it took me over 25 years to have my claims approved, I am thankful for the great compensation I am receiving.
    I am very sad about Colonel Turner taking his life, and am also heartbroken about his children. It is so sad that he was in the condition where he focused on himself instead of the ones he is leaving behind. As sad as it is, Suicide is the most selfish act that one can commit in this life. No body wins, and everybody loses. His sitting on his VA records AND BLOWING HIMSELF AWAY accomplished nothing positive; anymore than the Buda Priests who set themselves on fire in Vietnam. His suicide will make no positive impact on suicide prevention within the VA system. Now that he is dead, his pension will stop and there will be no money to support his family after his long military service. If he had life insurance, there is probably a suicide clause which will prevent his family from getting anything, or if so, a very reduced amount. Suicide is never the answer. I have been there. and was, in fact, on suicide watch for many days while in the hospital suffering from MDD. Part of the answer is knowing Jesus Christ as personal Savior; good positive loving support from family, and a competent, caring professional while going through the episodes of suffering. I am still in treatment;however, I am doing quite well in light of the fact that I benefiting from the three areas I have mentioned.

    1. What a piece of shit typical response. Calling a suffering veteran selfish because they opt out of suffering. ALL while the rest of us are fighting for benefits fuck us because your getting paid, right?

      Setting on his records blowing his brains out accomplished nothing? You’re a fucking retard and retirees like you who are catered and pandered to are a part of the systemic problem. It clearly accomplished a case and point example that the system is still failing.

      Your ability to completely minimize everyone else’s suffering and label people selfish and weak make me fucking sick. Get off your high and mighty horse you fuck. Just because you get good care (and I don’t give a fuck how long it took) does not equal the rest of us getting what we earned.

      You’re a mile high piece of shit friend. You should take some serious time to ponder how privileged and lucky you are ya fuckin bastard.

      Blue falcon privileged shitstain. What kind of piece of shit shows up to this kind of shit show and then brags about how great they are doing and how rich their getting?

      Narcissistic baby boomer trash, that’s who.

      1. Your uncalled for foul language really distracts from anything you are trying to submit that might be helpful. I hope you will get the help you need. Do not give up; it takes much longer than it should. May the Prince of Peace(Jesus) strengthen you at this special time of the year.
        I do not intend to turn this into a negative back and forth dialogue, so I have said all that I sensed I should say. That will be it from here.

      2. @Gene Snelling – – – While I respect the fact that you were a former Sergeant Major, who then received a direct commission as a 1st LT in the Medical Service Corps, I can quite readily see that you have forgotten how to ignore the salt that comes out of a grunts or sailors mouth and to empathize with the frustration, ignoring the rage of the human beneath.

        There are some valid logical points in your post, but your timing sucks as much as the VA/AFGE’s callousness and indifference towards many veterans.

        While you wish for the ‘Prince of Peace’ to strengthen us at this time of year, you obviously have not considered in depth that when the Colonel squeezed that trigger upon himself – – – the poor bastard granted himself the only thing that he understood as ‘peace’ given his situation.

        Since he did it in an Honorable Marine Corps manner, causing zero collateral damage to innocent bystanders – – – I will not stand in judgement over him. I only hope he found the ‘peace’ he so desperately sought.

        When my time comes, I only hope I can be as fortunate. And I hope no blathering fuckheads like you are around. Should there be, the code I exit under may not be as honorable as the Colonels.

        1973 – 1976 USMC
        1978 – 1993 USN

    2. Oh bull shit PHD Doc. (?) A PHD and Doc should be able to write better than I do and have more heart, less religious bull shit, judgements, on top of misery. Selfish? Not very “professional” are you? PHD in activism or blowing smoke is it? Again those that have judging those who have not, and seemingly not giving much thougt into the Marine officer’s issues or reasoning. Logical, healthy or not.

      1. @T

        Yeah, that guy reeks of self Important grandeur delusions of narcissism and selfishness. What a fucking wad of shit if I ever smelled one

      2. @”Dr.” Smelling

        My foul language don’t distract from shit. If anything it serves a great purpose: to weed out all touchy feely non action pussy vets like you. It reminds me of that scene from Apocalypse Now with Colonel Kurtz.

        Did it hurt your feelings when I wrote fuck on my airplane and born to kill on my helmet? Ya fuckin pussy I’d break contact too with my tail between my legs like a coward non action “vet”.

        Pussy FOBBIT REMF trash

        Did you hide in tradoc? Under mommy’s skirt? I have no problem posting my assigned units and actions here and you can find all the leaked action reports for my unit too if you’re not too pussy to read about a little “action”.

        I have comments as recent as today citing my combat action unit since I know you’re a lazy bitch non action type.

    3. Dr. He was focusing on others. His men. He was making a statement for all veterans.

      I have to make that choice also. In danger of going berserk “from conditioned responses” and anosognosia which interferes with the “reality check” located in the right parietal region. It is an automatic response I control by putting every day the statement, “I’ll kill myself before I kill others.” in the hope that when I go off it will be on myself and not others.

      CPT stuck point? I don’t think so. It is a reality I have to live with from experience.

  16. Sadly, this is going to get much worse in the coming months now because of the bull behind the opioid changes too…

    Veterans are now committing suicide due to loss of pain management.. More stories are coming out every day about that.. So now it is not just PTSD or lack of other kinds of care.. now it is because of this idiocy over opioids too.

    I have no issue going after those that abuse them.. I have a HUGE issue about just taking them away period. AND one of the reasons I have held off on my next jaw reconstructive surgery, besides not liking dentists, is because my last one.. they gave me TYLENOL.. Not codiene version.. regular tylenol.. I ended up in the emergency room after not being able to eat or anything else for 4 days.

    Someone needs to wake these morons in DC up.

  17. Please be advised Sir, you pointed your rifle in the wrong direction. I don’t use VHA’s hospitals, I fear for my life. Can’t even get a usable pair of glasses there. You did exactly what they wanted you to do. They want the money for themselves and to get rid of as many real Americans as they can. I blame congress, the senate, the new and improved VA Mission Act changes nothing, just more platitudes. I blame most of the American people, the msm, and the vso’s for ignoring this and the many scandals and corruption at the VA. America doesn’t deserve to win another war. My advise is to stay close to God. Won’t see this on the news.

  18. I certainly hope that Jim Turner’s message will be heard by those that have the power to change the way the VA treats Veterans with PTSD. With a sustained 20-22 Veterans suicides per day, I’m afraid Jim Turner’s message will again fall on deaf ears.
    After two local Veterans attempted suicide (one successful) I sent Roseburg VA Director Whitmer an email informing him of these veterans and asked what specifically the Roseburg VA was doing to reach out to its Veterans and identify those at risk? In his email reply, Whitmer promised he would address this at the Brookings Oregon town hall. He did not. Curry County Oregon has one of if not the highest Veterans populations per capita in the state. I was recently informed Curry County has the highest veterans suicide rate in the state.
    At my October 19th meeting with Whitmer, I reminded him that he did not address what Roseburg VA’s efforts were to try to prevent Veteran suicides. Whitmer emailed me a VA powerpoint presentation which contained good information but did not specifically address Roseburg’s efforts.
    As I expressed in my off topic comments to yesterdays story on this website, at the Brookings VA December 4th town hall, Whitmer could have given this power point presentation instead of attacking a veterans advocate and ignoring a Vietnam Veteran’s (3 tours) wife pleas for help with medical bills the VA was not paying. This same Veteran’s wife spoke up at the May town hall about being denied care at the Roseburg VA (on Whitmer’s watch)and being escorted off VA property at 3 in the morning.
    As I mentioned yesterday in my comment here, The Bay Pines VA claims to be saving Veteran’s lives with low dose CT lung cancer screening. Now Jim Turners story at Bay Pines.
    I want to write more here about how the Brooking’s VA dropped the ball twice on a suicidal Vietnam Veteran, the initial failure of the Veterans crisis line, and how Senator Merkley’s office had to intervene to prevent this Veteran from getting kicked to the curb by a local hospital when the Roseburg VA was apparently closed last MLK holiday as the hospital was unable to contact them by phone. I had an Email TownHall meeting with Whitmer about this. Joel Corcoran from Senator Merkley’s office was Cc’d on this as well as other email town halls with Whitmer. There is a lot more to this story and am thankful the Curry County Sheriffs Deputy and Oregon State Police, after meeting with me down the road from this Veterans house, made the wise decision to stop short of escalating this situation which could have ended much differently.

    Mike Berns

  19. I tweeted this aDNC @RealDonaldtrump @VA although the @VA blocked me on Twitter. I told them they need to start caring for our Veterans and give them access to the outside for help.
    I am tired of the VA killing our Veterans as part of the NWO. The @DNC runs the VA is why it’s rubbed like a 3rd world MASH unit.

    1. Outside isn’t any better. We are number 37 in the World Health Organization ratings. 19th in the 19 industrialized nations meaning our health care is worse than the top 18 Third World Countries. Did you read the article about the death from gangrene in gentiles? That was private care.

      There are too few psychiatrists because of the cost of medical school, neurology residency, and then the psychiatric residency. They stop at neurology because neurologists make a lot more. Only the drop outs from medical mal practice go on to become psychiatrists.
      Most never see an MD anymore. Either psychologists, social workers, Physician’s Assistants or Nurse Practitioners. Where the hell are you going to find private care for Medicare Prices? The price limitations on the Choice Program and TriCare.

      I’m better off at the VA here but then since the Phoenix/Cheyenne Crisis, Cheyenne VA has been under the magnifying glass. On the 3 Director in 5 years. But improvements have happened.

      I spent an hour on the phone day before yesterday with an Officer working on “Community Care” trying to get my Choice bill paid. But she was nice and listened and promised to get something done by the end of the year. We’ll see. But a year ago I would have been hung up on and ignored. And I still may be ignored but it was a much nicer person who talked me down from my rage.

      1. Lem. Well hang tough and don’t give them the smiles and satisfaction of hearing about you possibly offing yourself.

        We get lectures and their groups telling us stress and stressors are some main killers or destroyers of our health or sleep issues. Then go about dishing out all the stressors and chaos they can. With so many involved in doing it means it’s all not just mere coincidence.

        Just got a email from one low-life supposedly ‘patriot group’ (government accountability watch dog group) claiming victory over VA accountability and firing of the bad apples. Going from 0.2 percent to something like 25% firing rates. All fixed and fine thanks to Wilkie and present DC shit-heads. Ahhhh everything is fixed… move along disgruntled vets, nothing to see or report about the VA now. Just more BS and propaganda.

        Keep hearing or reading about ‘not all MDs or staff are bad.” Well bull poop on that too. How about using the activist/SJW/union’s playbook. Have the 20% call in sick from all the various clinics on certain days for a show of power or staff/union retaliation against the Gov/SES/Corporate machines. Great tactic during contract negotiations. Putting the other 80 or so percent on hurting status having to call in office or health care temps to cover for the losses and pretend to be taking care of vets or patients. And NOT knowing shit about how the VA, Kiosks, how to file for travel pay, look us up on their pc, or how the systems function at all. While all most of them can do is take names of complainers, type, and give scowling looks at us, smile at our misery, make jokes, eat their snacks. While telling other staff or temps they really appreciate the extra money from the activism and time at the VA (or other health care joints). This shit is not rocket science people and been around for generations.

        Evil triumphs when good people do nothing? Fine. Then have all the surgeons, major players or the claimed ‘good ones’ call in and use the activist and union playbooks in reverse. Claim whistle-blower status and massive professional misconduct, abuse, and killing of patients/vets for an excuse. Sacrifice and stand up to the VA group-think unions, the scum directors, idiotic claims for so-called patriot watch dog groups wanting more money to the corrupt and PC herds and cliques. Including the scum-sucking contractors and insurance types. Good idea and would work. Will the “good” do it? Hell no of course not. They don’t want the hassle, to lose a dime of pay, or not fit in with the hip, slick, and cool groups at the VA or some civy care killer edifices.

    2. You ain’t kidding. The democrats running things make me physically ill.

      RUMINT has it that on January 1st new rules for military tribunals and martial law go in effect which will allow POTUS to drop the 60,000 strong sealed indictment ban hammer on a number of these democrat traitors and make it stick.

      Deus vult. If God wills it I wonder how many of said traitors will be cross referenced with being responsible for not only what gets them hemmed up but sabotaging veteran care and benefits.

      Never lose hope or you lose the war. Pray for salvation and the return of the republic and sovereignty to American patriots. I know it’s a long shot and don’t think I discount all the republican traitors because I don’t. God bless and merry Christmas and happy New year

      1st Calvary Division “first team”
      4th BCT ” LongKnife”
      5th Battalion 82nd field artillery regiment “black dragons”
      Battery motto “hard times past but hard people last, Hooah!”
      Injured in the line of duty OIF 2009 then summarily forgotten


  20. This is an injustice! Ben help us please form a class action to help us suffering and to honor the memories of those lost battling the criminal enterprise known as the VA!!!!!!!!

  21. #fucktheva
    #fuckthenewsmedia for not covering this!

    Did I leave anyone out?

  22. Welcome to Satan’s playground aka the disunited States of utopia. As another commented nobody gives a fuck because their off in lala land living a fantasy dream.

    Up yours fuckheads. Disconnected head from ass and listen for the popping and sucking sound of your empty head reinflating.

    This nation is in total decay and disgrace. Those who fought so hard and gave so much to build this nation would be disgusted to see the spoiled, entitled narcissistic slobs who run things into the ground now. Shame on America. Shame.

  23. Too bad he didn’t take some VA rat fucks with him but I understand why.

    Those faggots get heralded as hero’s while the veteran is the new Freddy Kruger bump in the night horror slasher.

    Fuck you VA. Fuck every single one of you. I hope the next veteran takes you with them.

    1. You can’t blame all the docs and nurses that work at the V/A by choice. It is the politicians, it is the administrators and it is actually the people of this country that are to blame.

      1. I can and did and will continue to do so. Standing by and putting your hands in your pockets is just as guilty as those actually robbing the cookie jar. If good people speak up and get fired so be it. Do the right thing and don’t be a coward or take part in a corrupt garbage system.

        Pretty fuckin simple.

      2. Todd makes an interesting and often neglected point, e.g. “…it is actually the American people…” Many of us focus on the ubiquitous “system”. The negligence of the military in putting us in harm’s way. The negligence of the VA in providing adequate and timely care. That gets broken down into subsets of focus – anger toward the docs, anger toward the unions, anger towards the VA leadership, and then Congress. Trickle-up theory?

        Lately, I often wonder about the whole concept of betrayal and how that plays into suicide rates. Betrayal by the military, the VA at the local level, VA leadership etc. Todd aptly points out that it is the American people – who allow us to be sent into shitty/questionable/profitable wars. It’s the American people who placate or assuage their commitment to those who served by proudly displaying a yellow ribbon fender magnet or the occasional, and usually awkward and empty “thank you for your service.” They feel better – and move along.

        How much of our collective darkness and suicidal ideation is driven by specific traumatic experiences versus our sense of betrayal of the commitments and sacrifices veterans have made for what now seems a mythical “greater good”? What we’re left with is available targets of our frustrations and anger – the VA. We can’t reasonable take it out on the guy or gal who voted red or blue, or our neighbors, or any other of the millions of Americans who never answered the call, and who are simply clueless.

        I’ve only been in VA care for five years, so my perspective will not have the depth of history that many of you have experienced and expressed. My first dalliance with the VA was in 77, and it wasn’t easy returning in 2013. Are there divots in my VA experiences? Sure. But I have been fucked over, poisoned, and damn near bankrupted by Pig Med and Pig Pharma in the decades before I sought help from the VA.

        Lowered expectations = less disappointment? Fuck if I know. But I have tried to take names and faces and institutions off my anger list, and have dumped it on the larger population of sheeple who believe in liberalism, conservatism or the fucking Kardashians.

        That said, I’d still love to see Kissinger tied to a stake and torched. But, I’m told that closure is overrated.

      3. @windguy
        27th in the world in education and health care kinda says it all. It is an interesting point and ultimately the American people are responsible. .

  24. Local news reports about “Health Care Crisis” issues happening. Including the amounts of suicides and lacks of care in rural areas including vets (or not having net access in rural areas for tele-junk). Their cure-all is 5G and more high tech tele-crap. No other suicides or further investigations or facts to be shared for the public knowledge, just more censoring, excuses, fake news, cover-ups and BS.

    Minus the cover-ups, DC claims, or studies I’d like to know the true number of vets committing suicide. I go out and try to talk to others and most of it is about suffering and wanting to end it all to being totally fed up with the DC crowd, media, LEOs, and medical clowns and their boards.

    Even kids and teens committing suicide are up dramatically, why? Oh we can’t discuss that or the reasons why and over privacy concerns. BS. People with chronic pain issues, true victims or the medical establishments, to those with lousy care for PTSD are losing it.

    IF any MSM to all those two-faced lying veteran groups, Congress critters, out there would disallow these stories to be flushed down the memory hole things might change. Doubtful though. More attention goes to kitty cat and puppy stories instead, along with other distractions.

    I’ve led or talked to people about this site and more. Most don’t care. Others claim it’s too negative and their religions or beliefs tell them to steer clear of negativity, negative stories like this that upsets their vibes or fantasy living. Upsets their ‘heart chakras.” Many lack the social skills or life experiences to begin any discussions on the subject. Don’t want to upset their la la land living or supposed to be silent until some miracle happens. So those like me are negative and should be shunned like this story should be… shunned or kept out of the news as well. Just leave it to the “professionals” and college kiddies or med schools to deal with or “cure.”

    “Well the majority of people disagree with you Mr. T.” Majority? Yeah, the 80 or 90% that disagree with you and are getting excellent care through the VA and fine with government officials, all our laws, and media. Like the smaller percentage don’t matter or count. SNAFU. Hmmm. Isn’t death and suffering caused by medical treatments/mistakes/hospitals and such around number two on the list or causes? Then to consider the ones targeted by the VA and civy care for denials, targeting, to being ignored…to death. All those who our fearless leaders and state agencies ignore too? Total BS. Beyond sad. Condolences to his family.

  25. The veteran suicide statistics. 22 per day average. Comparative: 29 per 100,000 per year. (22 x 365 = 8030. 8030 / 29 x 100,000 = 27,600,000 vet population.) Many of those do not have combat ribbons or PTSD events so the rate of those in PTSD or TBI therapy is much higher. The 29 per 100,000 is nearly 5 times the rate 6 per 100,000 for white collar workers of which the Colonel was probably one. 29 is nearly 2.5 times the rate of 12 per 100,000 average for all Americans. By my calculations that is less than one per day (approximately 0.89 per day) for 327 million. So veterans account for a very high percentage of the suicides in the United States. Much higher than the 22 per day indicates or the 29 per 100,000 indicate because none of the other stats have the veteran suicides subtracted from their rate.

    Focused treatment of suicide prevention on the population where it occurs most would discover the markers and place a greater watchfulness on those at risk.

  26. Just another dead veteran, right? “A grateful nation thanks you for your service” and those who were charged “To care for him who shall have borne the battle” are now relieved because there is one less veteran in the system . . .

    What a CLUSTERFUCK of moral depravity and callousness this once proud nation has become. We now live in an era where the latest ‘Kardashian Crap’ or CLOTUS tweet gets more attention in from the media than the regrettable passing of one of our nations finest . . .

    Such a travesty. And the VA and AFGE march on!

    Veterans are long overdue for some real leadership from the Veterans Administration:

    Leadership that speaks truth publicly about how bad things have really gotten for the veterans they are supposed to be serving.

    Leadership that develops practical solutions to take better care of all our nations warriors.

    Leadership that recognizes that when they are doing a good job, veterans will be singing their praises rather than the VA spending millions of taxpayer dollars on Public Relation Agencies to put out ‘fluff pieces’ to mislead American citizens about the stellar job they are doing to care for our nations veterans.

    The truth is that the VA is doing a piss-poor job.

    The Department of Veterans Affairs has one of the largest budgets within our federal government. This is used to provide veterans less than third-world medical care and benefits. It is about twenty years past time to seriously address the corruption, malfeasance, and incompetence that infest the Veterans Administration.

    Here is a plan to accomplish that goal:

    1. Immediately recognize the problems inherent in the Veterans Administration are system-wide, not just limited to a few discrete locations.

    2. Fire all the incompetent and corrupt Workers. Fire every single AFGE/SES employee. The VA prides itself on service to the veteran. However, the American Federation of Government Employees Union makes it nearly impossible to rid the VA of corrupt, incompetent employees.

    3. Sell off all the VA facilities. Alternatively, they may be converted into military barracks-style housing for homeless veterans. These will be run with military-style rules to promote good order and discipline.

    4. Issue all veterans a card that allows them to choose their own doctors within their community that they can trust.

    5. The United States Government will pay those doctors promptly (Within 45 days) for the care they provide veterans.

    6. Eliminate the ‘Federal Protection’ clause in the United States Code for incompetent medical personnel that the VA sends to other states where they are not licensed to practice. Going to practice medicine in each state? You need to be properly medically licensed in that state.

    7. Rapidly reduce the years long backlog of Veterans Disability Claims. Any claim a veteran submits to the Veterans Benefit Administration that requires more than 90 days to adjudicate, is automatically found to be in favor of the veteran. Should a veteran file a false claim to defraud the system, the Veterans Administration will be required to prove in civil court that the claim was falsely submitted. For filing a false claim, the veteran will be mandatorily subject to all the following:

    (A). The claim shall be denied. If the veteran has received any form of benefits due to filing of a false claim, they will be required to fully repay those benefits with interest.
    (B). The veteran will be banned from all VA facilities for the remainder of their life.
    (C). The veteran will lose any benefits they have and will not be allowed to file for further benefits.

    8. All veterans shall be allowed to seek/retain the services of a Veterans Rights Attorney from their first initial contact with the VA. This will help to protect the legal rights of veterans against corrupt, incompetent VA employees.

    9. No AFGE, or any other labor union business will be allowed to take place in any federal workplace. Conducting union business during working hours will be strictly prohibited and enforced. Should any government employee be found violating this provision, it will result in immediate lifetime dismissal from all federal, state, city and county government employment.

    10. Attorneys for appeal for cases of ‘wrongful termination’ will be retained at the former VA employee’s personal expense. U. S. Taxpayer’s will not be subject to payment of legal bills for incompetent or dishonest personnel with regards to governmental employment.

    It is my belief that were the above ten measures placed into rigorous ethical practice, these would over the next few years ensure major performance improvements within the Department of Veteran Affairs.

  27. Ben, did you get my email on this subject?

    Cognitive Process Therapy, (for PTSD) as it is currently run, is precipitating many of those suicides. If you don’t list the “stuck points” because you don’t have them because you don’t brood, obsess or ruminate you are kicked completely out of therapy. Next step, what the Colonel did. To the parking lot to make a statement. Simple one. You didn’t treat me as an individual with individual needs I’m just one of those dehumanized “vets.”

    Was very close to joining the Colonel this month. If I had been by myself with a gun, my exit would have been on December 7. Besides the ones that have killed themselves, how many come as close as I did as many times as I have this year?

    1. I am so sorry to hear of this wonderful man’s loss of life. I care deeply about all veterans and regard them with the dignity that they so deserve. I am a wife of a Vietnam Vet. I have been advocating for him for years. The V.A. hates me because I am a Whistleblower! I was told, in passive aggressive way, the V.A. does not forget things like this. I can assure, that is correct. My husband has Parkinson’s Disease related to Agent Orange exposure. It is all over his records but, the V.A. has ask doctors to change their diagnosis and say he does not have it. It has been seen by three outside doctors, two being neurologists that claim he has it and is on medication for it. We just got word today, they have denied his claim again. I will not give up. My husband, the veteran and all veteran do not deserve this. I will fight to the bitter end. He has been spat on long enough. Blessings to all veterans and thank you for your service.

      1. Dear Jane: God Bless you and Jimmy! Most of us who are not Vets, and are not naive or totally unaware of the problem reputation the VA has earned over the decades for their various failures to provide our country’s Vets the very best care – that is what most Americans believe our Vets deserve.

        I think there is no better example of how the federal government fails than the VA.

        It makes me wonder if each service branch was given the responsibility to provide
        for their own, would they care more, and do better at it?

        Imagine if you were tasked with starting over from scratch to provide the best medical services to our Vets, and there is NO VA, how might you do it? Here’s an idea that you just inspired me to think of: the military branch each Vet served in last issues them a credit card that says for example: U.S. Army Vet Medical, and that card is good for unlimited, unrestricted medical services for that Vet anywhere in the world. Instead of the bills going to the Vet, they go the the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, etc. who pays the providers, and audits the charges, and investigates and if need be prosecutes any suspected frauds. The Vet gets a monthly statement, only so they can see the cost of their treatments, and know how much their country cares about them!

        No VA hospitals! No claim forms! No restriction on where to get whatever services you need! No denial of services! No bullshit!

        If you think this sounds crazy, that’s because you’ve gotten used to being screwed over by the current system. STOP! Demand change or change will never come. This is my idea. I pray that Ben Krause will adopt it, and push it with the rich and powerful in Washington D.C. and at the pentagon. I don’t need to get any credit for thinking of it. I just need for you Vets to get treated with actual “square deal” redeeming the promise.

        If you like this idea, please share it, and push for it. It actually CAN happen. Imagine if it was the reality today? Maybe those 22 suicides a day, would only be one or two, or thank God NONE!

        The reason this hurts those of us so badly who don’t know you, is that we are Americans who have not forgotten what is right and wrong.

      2. Have you filed a Notice of Disagreement, Jane? Where along the pipeline is his claim?
        Like your claim, mine is full of retaliation and obvious. I’ve been advocating for veterans with organic brain syndromes since 1987.

        My Claim is at the Court of Appeals for Veterans’ Claims. Case no. 17-2990. My file has had many probative documents removed, CUE claims ignored and not certified, etc.

        If you have an attorney or if you can write your claim of abuse you should file and try to join my case for decision. I have a delay trying to replace Seizure Clinic Out Patient Treatment Records and Back Clinic OPTR that have been removed from my claims file. If you have a copy of his file make sure there are all of the old records that are referenced in other places in the Claims file in the file.

        If you need help, contact me a “[email protected]” Happy to give a hand. I’ll share my Acrobat DC with you so you can redact the personal ID from documents you share with me and the Court as is required.

        Another source for help is “Hadit.com”. They have a good forum for answering questions.

    2. Lem, I went through the VA’s “Prolong Exposure” program for PTSD and it was a joke. All it did was piss me off for having to repeat the traumatic incident over and over thinking that it would lessen the trauma by repeating the incident. What it did was cause me to focus more on the incident and want to put a bullet in my head. Spent 8 weeks on one incident and it made it worse. I asked what do I do about the other 25 traumatic incidents? Oh, we don’t have time for them. Assholes… I m now in the Cognitive Process Therapy with a private Psychologist away from the butchers at the VA and while it is not the best program, it is far better than the bogus Prolong Exposure one. At least the CPT teaches you how the brain functions in dealing with traumatic incidents and how to basically rewire your thinking to deal with PTSD.

      1. @ Tony

        Thanks patriot. It means the world to those of us who have been in harm’s way to hear from the nation’s patriots who truly support us and understand our plight. I, for one, like your idea.

        God bless and merry Christmas.

        It’s people like you who bring honor back to my service. It’s men like you who make me feel privileged to have given all and invoke the feeling of doing it all over again if given a choice.

      2. Nick, let me know how CPT works in the private sector. If it applied in the same way as the VA it will be a problem. But it doesn’t deal directly with the events. No recall of the events except one writing of the one that is most troubling. The, “What about the other 25” will be a problem. CPT deals with brooding, obsessing and ruminating. If you are not someone who goes around talking to yourself in anger or depression all day the it will not likely work any better than Prolonged Exposure. Looks like an experiment is going on in the VA with these programs. Wonder how many will take that finale exit before they realize they should be trying to treat TBI anosognosia which inhibits the ability to adjust to and get over the events. After all, Nick, you did your job as ordered to the best of your ability at the time and likely you are mostly dealing with that which you didn’t do but observed.

      3. Being drugged and forced to relive trauma as therapy so I would forget real memories and make new false ones to stop me from filing claims got me into full time panic and finally withdrawal stroke and all the evil things that go along with that.

    3. Me. Twice this year. Hopefully this next year I’ll get it down to 1. My wife is hoping too. Of course I don’t tell my psyc. but she has helped somewhat after 2 years but now she wants me to get more involved in the healing? process by spilling my guts to strangers? through a computer? OUT of my comfort zone big time.

      1. Don’t spill your guts to strangers until you get to know them and know they have been through it. Worst people to tell are your family and friends. They’ll cool toward you quickly. (from experience–recommendation of a PhD intern.) Even firemen know they can only talk to other’s who were there at the event to truly be able to sort it out. And even then, they don’t make it all of the time.

      2. Thanks Lem. NO ONE knows what I’ve done for the last 49 years becauce THEY NEVER ASKED. And they wonder why I act like I do. My sons are 41 And 42 and they never asked me (hey what did you do in the war daddy)! Maybe they might learn when they look in my bedroom drawers.

    4. Lem, I think your talking to deaf ears because he’s to busy being caught up to the top level suck ups. Yeah. YOU BEN. Post something sometimes and keep in touch with us here sometimes to let us know your reading the shit here. I know your really busy, but give some of us a little feedback? Because if you don’t you will end up on the same shit list and you can kiss your bye bye. Bring it.

      1. The email I sent, copied and pasted. Dec 18, 9:28 AM

        Benjamin, do you have or can you get a list of suicides in on VA grounds over the period of time since the Cognitive Process Therapy (CPT) program began for PTSD? An equal period prior to the program would also be helpful.

        I’m writing a proposal to NIH for a study. Will also write an FOIA to the IG and Central Office. Would be helpful if you would take part with your law office.

        22 vets per day commit suicide. The rate is 29 per 100,000 per year. That is nearly 5 times the rate of vets who never saw combat and never had a PTSD or a TBI incident. (Equivalent to white collar workers at 6 per 100,000) It is nearly 1.5 times the rate of 19 per 100,000 for blue collar workers. And nearly 2.5 times the overall average of 12 per 100,000. The VA is not doing something right and that is probably CPT.

        CPT drops and kicks patients out of the program if they don’t come up with “daily” “stuck points.” And out of therapy period.

        Not all PTSD victims obsess, brood, or ruminate (which ever term you want to use for “stuck points”) In fact there is a drop out rate of over 2/3 in the first 3 days from my group experience which is followed by the kick outs which include a kick out of therapy completely stating the patient doesn’t have PTSD even though the assessment test by the social worker shows they do.

        After the kick out from therapy on December 7, I almost took that finale exit.

        CPT is inflexible to individual personal needs an responses. CPT is obviously helpful to all PTSD participants but brooding, obsessing and ruminating cannot be projected upon those who don’t have that problem. What is not helpful in the group is the “war story” individuals reliving their personal experiences. That should be done in individual therapy and on the form submitted to the therapist for that purpose.

        I do not have “stuck points”. I’ve been in therapy for the most of 35 years for PTSD/TBI. What happens to me is the Pavlov Dog “conditioned responses” that have no thought given to them other than, “Why the hell did I do that.” after the fact. I then have to relate in retrospect to find the trigger and its origination which sometimes goes back to more than two triggers.

        Brooding and obsessing is something I gave up many years ago for fear, from an experience, of going berserk in a complex partial seizure because of damage to my left anterior temporal lobe as indicated by EEGs and neuropsychological testing. The injury also aggravated a pre service TBI to the right occipital lobe, probably because the left anterior temporal lobe is the location of communicating right brain functions to the left brain including the “reality check” from the right parietal lobe to the conscious function of the left brain (subtle anosognosia) experienced by imbibing ETOH but cured by sobering up and the visual spatial hand eye coordination. From an injury, anosognosia is permanent but without the ETOH symptoms from depressing the function of the rest of the brain causing slurring of speech, staggering, etc.

        You are welcome to use this as an article if you wish. Just don’t name me please. And get back to me if you want to use it.

  28. Not far off from the old “80/20 rules.” With variations of the theme mostly used by activist, SES/DC types, and old timey union conferences holds true to today. To the amount of people or vets allowed to be terrorized or killed by soft or hard kill by the VA or the modern medical cabals… or activist. Win the “hearts and minds” of 80% the rest be damned or destroyed…. no problem. “Collective Punishments” for most but not for a certain percentage of any given population or the prominent elite types. Get my drift?

    On the flip side how many do some historians claim to have started the movement in 1776? Like around a mere twenty percent of the then population? If we can believe that much.

    My experience with this came about from communist connections with union affairs now known as “globalism” or union globalization. To unionize everything, stop open shop working, to control everything. Throw stones all you want. Truth hurts.

    From the Federal News Network; “Fiscal 2019 Government Contracting Playbook”
    “Federal acquisition will continue to address systemic policy and process challenges in fiscal 2019.
    No matter what happens, 80 percent of the agencies already have their discretionary funding for fiscal 2019 and the remaining 20 percent shouldn’t have to wait much longer. That, in itself, is a win for agencies and contractors.
    In the Fiscal 2019 Government Contracting Playbook, Daniel Snyder, Deputy Director of Government Contracts Research for Bloomberg Government, will share five trends to monitor for 2019.

    This e-book is made possible by: ”

    Get it???? If not read more about it.. “https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle” Then apply it to whatever agenda, studies, claims, or purpose. Like up to 20% is expendable as long as the other 80 or 90% are appeased or disconcerned about the other percentages that may be harmed or trampled on. Who will dare speak out against the evils while 80% or more are thrilled with what they get or think may be quality care. The VA at first reportedly had to cut 20 to 25% of patients starting off from pain meds, it was tolerated, then escalated, and on to the civilian world since it was so acceptable/tolerated/excused like suicides to continue on without much public out-cry or zero marching/protest to be seen.

    Break for cramps and give twitter readers a break.


    Dear Santa, (NOT a VSO looky-like)

    Please use all VA employees that are on your naughty list, (likely solid 90%), to fill and plug erupting volcanoes around the planet on your travels Christmas eve., and take away passive-aggressive healthcare and give all Vets the square deal we were promised….(that other 10% is likely rotten as well, top volcanoes off)
    A Really Pissed-Off and Sick Of The BS Vet

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