Veteran Organizations Reject Veterans’ Right To Pick Where They Get Care

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Care

This week, three veteran organizations rebuked President Donald Trump’s call for full Veterans Choice in selecting who provides their health care.

The organizations apparently want Veterans Choice so long as that choice is only for a VA doctor, or resident, or medical student. And like most veterans, you usually only see a resident and not a staff doctor when you show up at VA.

Disabled American Veterans (DAV), American Legion (Legion) and Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) spoke with the House and Senate veterans’ affairs committees yesterday. During their respective presentations, each warned about “excessively outsourcing” medical treatment for veterans.

According to DAV head Garry Augustine, “The bottom line is, if you open up choice to anyone, and they can go anywhere, it will eventually drain resources from the VA.” He continued, “The VA will eventually whither on the vine.”

Charles Schmidt, head of the Legion, begged Congress to avoid, “all-out privatization or any dissolution of the VA system.” VFW head Brian Duffy said similar, “fix-not dismantle – the VA health care system.”

So it sounds like both organizations believe their members would choose VA health care over quality health care, and that is what Rep. Jack Bergman (R-Mi) questioned.

According to the Stars and Stripes:

Rep. Jack Bergman, R-Mich., asked whether American Legion members would rather receive “quality health care or health care from VA.” The phrasing prompted discussion from the crowd of a few hundred veterans.

“The truth is, the two aren’t mutually exclusive,” answered Louis Celli, an American Legion director. “The VA trains some of the finest doctors in the country, and we want to make sure it retains the highest quality physicians. We’ll continue to be a partner with them.”

Did you notice the semantic subtlety there?

VA trains some of the finest doctors in the country, but it struggles to retain any of them. Meanwhile, most veterans would rather be seen by the top well-trained doctors in the country and not trainees who later become top doctors.

At the end of the day, does anyone really want to be a guinea pig to help doctors train to become the finest in the country later? Is it not true that veterans can generally only access these top doctors through the community health care only?

After 80 years of repeat failures inside VA and veteran organizations’ inability to reign in the problems, American taxpayers must really consider whether VA health care is a sunk cost and dismantle the system.

Sounds like veterans organizations may have been duped when lauding Secretary David Shulkin’s selection. And I hope veterans finally get the choice we want.

What do you think the right choice is for veterans? Keep pounding more money down the rat hole at VA or get non-VA care to make VA compete with the private sector?

Source: https://www.stripes.com/veterans-groups-warn-against-unlimited-choice-for-health-care-1.456560#.WLexxhIrLBU

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Freddy Rendon
Freddy Rendon

VSO s are a waste. Why should they have a say so? They can’t file decent claims so what makes them so smart?

Dennis
Dennis

What makes smart? Well I can think of about 400,000 things that add up to DAV folks being pretty smart, but perhaps the story is better told by the American Free Press on June 27,2013;

“While nearly 200,000 veterans are homeless and hungry living on the streets of this once-great nation, the leading non-profit in the United States whose stated purpose is to tend to America’s wartime disabled and their families, has veered from its original mission and has diverted donations ostensibly meant for veterans to the leadership of the organization, some of whom are paid nearly $400,000 per year.”

The organization is DAV. Pretty smart, huh?

Peterson, L.H.
Peterson, L.H.

I am a life member of DAV, VFW, and AMVETS. As well as a 15yr membe of American Legion. It’s extremely disheartening to read what you’ve written about the top personnel in the DAV. It makes sense now how all the influx of money doesn’t or barely covers costs to keep the doors open at these posts…wtf

Dennis
Dennis

We have been gifted the First Ammendment through the sacrifices of those who came before. We have been handed a means to use the gift as Americans never before had – an internet connecting The People across our world.

The information is all out there and often takes less time than the blink of the human eye to retrieve. The First Ammendment holds for us a promise that our nation will remain great not because it promises the truth to The People, but a means to discover it. It is a promise only and not a garauntee because the Constitution of The United States only ensures that we have the right to PURSUE freedom and happiness. It does not garauntee that you or I will be free, or happy. Just the right to seek it.

The garauntee comes when the decision is made to use the gifts. I would suggest to any veteran to investigate any organization they owe allegience to.

David Richardson
David Richardson

Its so sad ! They do NOT represent most veterans. Veterans Choice is a excellent program if run properly. Most veterans are very happy with the program. It seems like someone is getting paid to side with only VA care. I’ve never heard a veteran say they ” only want VA to provide health care.”

Craig Womer
Craig Womer

Stop being fascist state, don’t judge what is best fort us. Let us the individual decide where when and who we get our care. Give us the choice. Stop holding up approvals for Choice. Some of us could die waiting. I’m proof of that.

James Gallegos
James Gallegos

Tell a doctor or VA clerk you want choice and they will report you as being disruptive.

These are the first to get choice. Not your choice their choice.

If all veterans were accused of disruptive behavior, then they all could or will be seen by an outside doctor and that doctor will be told that is why they are seeing you.

Cantigny
Cantigny

That is so true. Even if the veteran goes about getting all the documentation, IMO’s, getting a qualified person to write the legalese listing documented evidence, etc, then takes all that neatly wrapped up to one of these VSOs and asks them to file it…they then want to stonewall and argue a bit as to why they won’t file it.!!!
what good are they indeed!

@veternnco
@veternnco

It’s all about the money, power and position with VSO’s. Many are highly paid and are not worth a hill of beans. Sold many Vets down the river in regard to heir claims. American Legion once caused my VARO to reduce a rating unfairly. I was forced to fight three years to get my rating back. I say, get rid of VSO’s because, I for one, won about 10 appeals before BVA on my own, over the past 30+ years. They were not for me. They did not give me the benefit of the doubt. They caused more pain and suffering and loss of quality of life. I want a CHOICE of Provider. Providers should be treated equally too. Integration with “no strings attached choice of provider” is best for all.

Ryan Honl
Ryan Honl

Most excellent article Ben. Thank you.

Why on God’s green earth would you oppose veterans getting healthcare with a doctor they like whether it’s at the VA or in the private sector? I like my current VA doctor. Had bad. Had good. Why push our faces in the dirt when if we like a certain Mayo doctor for specialized care which is my case when I had private insurance. Thank you but no thank you national VSO leadership. Shameful.

Answer: follow the special interest money. VSOs should be supporting the majority of veterans who want that choice instead of playing politics.

Politicians who oppose it will pay the price. VSO leadership will continue to see declining membership which is sad because local chapters don’t care about the games in Washington….that is until we vote.

cj
cj

I don’t know what the answer is………..mostly cause I am stoned at the moment. But, if the va in going to be in the business of denying service connection to veterans anyway, then what the hell good are they? I don’t like the looks I get when I go for an appointment, I wouldnl’t get those looks if I used private care. I do use private care. the difference is with private care I feel like my doctor cares about my treatment. The va? I really don’t think they care if I ever walk through those doors again or not, and I am pretty sure they would prefere that I never came back. I am sick of their attitudes, their condecending tones, the way they treat some people why neglecting others. It is a very sick system that nobody really seems to want to fix. It has become a laboratory, and bank account. I understand that they have an upper hand on certain care, because of the injuries sustained in battle. But……..they are trying to refuse far to many of those battle injured vets. Since I am stoned at the moment, and getting pissed off while typing this, I am also losing my train of thought. so I will end it here. Nothing new, we all know how broken the system is. Hell, a wwII vet is still trying to get treament from a gunshot wound to the head he recieved in the war. What an abortion the damn va has become. Where does the VSO’s come off spouting off about care? Are they not the ones who don’t want to give care to one group because another group would suffer? Let me be clear………….EVERY VETERAN FROM EVERY ERA COMBAT OR NON COMBAT THAT HAS SERVICE CONNECTED INJURIES NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF………………..P……….E………R……….I……….O…………D………..!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The DOD is an employer just the same as IBM, if you were to get injured at IBM they would be legally resoponsible for your injuries, end of story. The same should hold true for the DOD, and by proxy the damn va. We treat everone else better than we treat our veterans, this NEEDS TO STOP. I don’t want another single damn penny of my tax dollars being spent, on another damn thing, until every veteran, elderly person, disabled person, and sick child is taken care of first. Fuck illegals, fuck Iran, fuck GITMO prisoners. and fuck anyone who looks like them. Take care of the people who signed the dotted line, and for those civiliians out there who think veterans are stupid, and deserve nothing? You snow fucking flakes better find the nearest damn veteran and kiss his/hers ass, because if it were not for them unselfishly serving this great country, there would be a draft, and your snow fucking flake asses would be the ones on the battle field, so stick your anti American, anti service member, anti veteran attitude up your anti Trump ass, that is if ther is enough room next to your over sized pin dick head. Rant the hell out!!!!!

Ex va
Ex va

@ cj, you did well describing your frustrations. VSO’s have become useless organizations. I use to believe in the VSO’s I donated my time, my money, etc. I do not do that anymore because i have been educated in their lack of care of what is happening to our Veterans in the va system.

How can they be so ignorant to all the pain and suffering going on around them that the va inflicts on Veterans? When a Veterans suffers because he cannot get his benefits in a timely manner or medications to improve or save his life the Veterans service organizations are going to stand behind that agency that prolongs a Veterans pain and suffering? Because the va trains physicians and wants to retain them????? What the hell??? A lot of hospitals trains residents (physicians). It is more special when the va does it? Give me a break.

The VSO’s are beginning to sound just like the va with their rationale that makes no sense and full of lies just like the va. Loss of funding, va is notorious for wasting funding that it is allocated. They don’t know how to manage it so the end up mismanaging it.

Dennis
Dennis

@cj

Frankly some of my profoundly greatest cognitive moments happen when I am stoned. The trick is to dispense with logic. Plus I wait until my marijuanna is thoroughly withered before smoking. It REALLY makes it better!

gaga lady
gaga lady

Sounds like me too

Craig Womer
Craig Womer

I am going to have to agree with cj I may not be stoned but I do prefer to have the health care of that I prefer my choice not yours or some other VA idea of Medical Care. Give everyone their choice if they like VA fine they want to go downtown that should be just as well without any hassle. Let these Congress men and women go to the VA for healthcare watch how fast the system changes. So far my cardiovascular surgeon has kept me alive all this time and he’s downtown so let me see the doctor I want that keeps me alive.

Dennis
Dennis

@Craig Womer
you make a great point about the VSOs as well.

Not once did I see mention by the VSOs of concern over how the system currently impacts the quality of life or how to best keep American vets alive. The concern is about how to keep VA alive.

CorpsmanUp!
CorpsmanUp!

If that is the case, you are better off seeing a corpsman! Our training is different, but our guidance and skills come directly from a medical officer. Those organizations need to go directly to hell! With over 30 years experience in the medical field, everyone gets their share of a medical problem. Some suffer greatly, some flat out croak like a motherfucker! And these fuck knocks need to croak straight up! especially when they are trying to dictate when and where you can be seen.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

@CorpsmanUp,
I just received this article through “military.com” via: “Task & Purpose”, by Duane K L France.
I’d like your response!
Titled;
“This Is How to Respond To A Veteran Contemplating Suicide!”

I’m not sure, it just doesn’t sound right to me! Maybe I don’t understand!

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

I have received much better from Corpsmen, both afloat and ashore – – – than I EVER have from the VA. And as for when I ran with the Jarheads – – – Our unit’s “Doc’s” set the gold standard.

Lem
Lem

We did our best whether with your unit or another. HM 13.5 years 1961-1974

Cantigny
Cantigny

recently (last year) asked about “choice program” ops for service connected surgery options just in case my medicare-supplement wouldn’t cover what civilian surgeon was recommending. this surgeon is in same town. VA basically said no and they would need to fly me to some other state, see their VA specialist for an opine, then wait for the determination. a determination which we all know would be NO CAN DO. finally my insurance came through and had surgery. this guy fixed up some issues the VA could have fixed years ago…but knowwwwwww.

the point: no can go with these VSOs not wanting Choice for veterans. jeez, their is no Choice as it is with the Choice Program! let one Congress person or one of Trump’s WH go to a VA and have such nonsensical approaches to medicine administered to them and see if the VA wouldn’t be on a quick road to shaping up not to mention allowing actual Choice. man, some serious deep pockets from lobbies lining Congress people for them never to ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING to fix the VA…except toss mo $$ to them and holler out empty soundbites.

anyone notice the civilian doctors you see that mention they trained at VA they never mention one single NEG at all. so none of these well trained doctors ever saw or did a short-change to a veteran or policy? and the probability of that is ?? i get it, they stick together and probably a career black mark if they did. just saying though.

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

anyone notice the civilian doctors you see that mention they trained at VA they never mention one single NEG at all. so none of these well trained doctors ever saw or did a short-change to a veteran or policy? …….OH I have just about all of them trained at the V.A….so when you go to a outside doctor don’t mention a VA claim

T
T

I asked my dog’s veterinarian if she would treat me since my dogs have more time spent with health care, more questions answered, more friendly and thorough than what I’ve experienced in today’s modern medicine for humans. Also with no contradictions, game playing, racism, threats, or told I would be forced to do or take something, or told I would be forced to sign a special contract for their care. They get pain medication very easily compared to me to. Her and her staff seem actually concerned about the welfare of my pooches. Plenty of groups and people out there that would raise hell over animal care compared to those concerned enough to help a veteran or stand with us for some common decency or what we need.

Because of a lot of corruption and money loses by local Legions the only thing I can say good about them is that the AL VSO got me through a disability process fairly easy and all done on the phone for their part. That is it. For years over our local issues they claim they don’t get involved in local issues or negatives about the Legion or other groups. Last year was my last dues for the A. L. and dropped my DAV membership too. Done with all of it over the years of being ignored or told they can’t help or won’t. That is from the local, state and national levels.

So far with civilian care I have found it mirrors the VA way. At least the new MD found a aneurysm that the VA missed over the years. Other than that he told me it would take time to go through all my issues. “Too much to chew on with one visit or two, and would not give me pain meds or muscle relaxers and listed all the specialist he would have to send me to since he and the hospital/clinic rules would not allow him to function as a regular old styled MD.

My second trip to him was exactly like the VA. They sent my allowable prescriptions to the wrong pharmacy and sent off to two different ones across town from each other. Then asked me what I was doing back within a month after them telling me to make an appointment to fulfill the plan we made to take care of everything, or the issues. “oh what brings you back in so soon.” Huh? Then sent off for a blood test, had to deal with another story about ‘misplaced files” and the nurse and staff are confused because they usually don’t work in that clinic. And not much was discussed except for having to see another MD and to get another set of Xrays (they don’t rely on others X-rays) in another clinic for the same hospital. So, in short, same crap different day with the same modern medicine attitudes and functioning. So the woman who wrote the book “Big Medicine” was right on target about medicine today being a profiteering uncaring joke. OH, and mentioning dope about depression and to hell my chronic pain issues.

My last six hour wait at the pain clinic was my last. Only four of them seemingly locally for pain to be seen and all play their games. Long waits, changing appointment dates, asking stupid questions like do we have sex or have girlfriends, or told to sign stupid contracts like agreeing to never sue them for malpractice and acknowledging that “Medical care is a practice, underlined practice by trial and error.” Nice huh?

The only thing left for me to do is to go public with something like Facebook and the like since Zuckerbugger will probably ban or censor me like they have many others for writing truth and what some of us deal with. The local lefties of the city council who loves to censor and gossip, retaliate will have a field day. Plus seeing how I live in communist hell hole of a multiple lefty college college town in Indiana where censorship and retribution by the VA, our fearless leaders, media to all the activist is common, and truth or negativity about the area is not allowed, my life will not be worth a plug nickel. Especially since I have traveled this road before when it comes to standing up to our states corruption and not getting help from noone but being ignored, threats, or being told by VA groups and others that ‘our hands are tied.” Or due to “professional courtesy” they will not get involved. But I have a lot to bitch about and to share. Much of it is taboo and not allowed here just like trying to expose the VA and various and constant antics of corruption and censoring. We don’t live in America around here and have not for many years. More like the Soviet Union, Gaza Strip, Canada, or China.

At every turn we have to fight about everything and everyone including other veterans who have it okay, to a corrupt media, corrupt VA, media. family of VA staff and their activist, and unions, ad infinitum. Beyond pathetic.

Thanks Ben, good article. It shows I have been correct about these groups for years as they ignore us over many issues. And all the fluff we see on TV about them or what they do locally to show some kind of love for vets, or how we live in a perfect global community, live in the best state in the union, and all is good, is total crap and more propaganda.

I am just 110% fed up and disgusted.

Try to have a good day all!

cj
cj

@T; You are so right about the pups having more advocate groups and better care then us. I really like tha analogy. I had an old school doctor, she would come to my house, and I had her personal phone number in case of an emergency. She saved my life on more than one occation. Sorry to say she is no longer with us. When looking for another Doctor, I first did my research onlice as best I could. Then made appointments with the top 5 I found, the first visits would go something like this. I would walk in for my first appointment, they would hand me paper work to fill out. I would hand the paper work back unfilled and tell them I would fill it out IF I decided that x doctor would be my doctor, to look at this as an interview. 4 of those doctors had a bad attitude about the way I did this. One doctor indulged me, and answered every question exactly as I would have wanted her to answer. She has been my doctor ever since. I know damn well how lucky I am to have found such a good doctor in these times of “push em through and bill em” I hope you are able to find a gem eventually, in the coal fields.

T
T

I’ve backed off trying to find another real doctor in my neck of the woods. At the ‘New Pain Clinic” orientation in Indy in 2015 we were told, I was told, after complaining about the new VA attitude towards and all the rest, that if we left the VA we’d never find health care in Indiana again. I guess the punk was right. He said the VA and others had “total control” over our health care and ability to get health care. I reckoned it to be like being ‘black balled’ or put on a list someway. So I am tired and my body can’t take the stress and games regarding any of it. I go to visit a or to inquire about a doctor my sugar drops, blood pressure shoots up, migraine, etc. So to hell with it. Plus there are too many other things to deal with on top of fighting the VA. and the rest of our corrupt nature of things here. At every turn there seems to be a hassle. And it’s not acceptable or PC here to complain about anything including censoring to smart meters.

As for signing forms. The last pain clinic doc called me ‘smart guy’ because I signed all his required forms with “Vi Coactus” and “…”. Like signing while under duress, by force/threat, etc. I was told at the VA that it would not be allowed there with the new special contract we had to sign to continue treatment there or to get pain meds. A separate contract from the normal narcotic form agreements we have to sign.

The new contract also stated, as we were told included…”Never to use Veterans Choice or civilian health care for any reason like I posted before here. That includes auto wrecks, migraines, heart attacks, broken bones, whatever. We were told we would have to drive to Indy for care for everything, period. That and more and was my last visit to the VA. That and my new young foreign MD Golla refused to give me referrals for the other several clinics I had seen for years. Why I don’t know. Probably for leaving the local CBOC for a bunch of crap only to find the change worse.

The trouble here in Indiana is that there is absolutely no one to stand with us or to investigate matters. Either the VA and a long list of others who refuse to investigate any professional or why they are covering up for the VA and putting targets on our backs or apparently putting something in our records, the VA brand, that creates unneeded issues. Really it all boils down to politics, the local vet groups afraid of upsetting the local and state’s politicians and too afraid to upset the cart of “Professional Courtesies” I keep hearing about. Plus me not being a full fledged Democrat or MoveOn member or not in some local clique or mafia. But that is how it works in the state and more-so in my lousy town. I kid you not, Indiana is like living in the old Soviet Union or Canada where we have no voice, we aren’t safe when trying to exercise our rights, or challenge or question the power that be on any level including the VA, medical boards and others who are the power brokers and so called leaders. Vet groups here are no better especially when corruption and some evil benefits many while trashing others lives.

cj
cj

@T,@Dennis: T, I think Dennis went through some of what your talking about. I am in total shock over what you just pointed out. My God, I would have gone off on the bastards, and I do mean “go offf” Did you acually experience a “blacklist” kind of event at a private pain clinic? I’d sue the shit out of them. I guess I am kind of lucky because I only go the the va for service connected injuries, and I only do that so I don’t “lose” the crappy benifits I do have. I have been escorted out of many places lol. I am not proud of it, just have a habbit of short fusedness, or snappability. I even snap when I see any veteran being disrespected, or being treated like shit at a va. They refused medical care alltogether for almost 2 years for the last time. Your story angers me to no end, because it sounds to me you don’t have any alternative but to use them. I don’t see how it is possible for them to demand you use them exclusively. I do know there is something funny going on with pain clinics, I use to go to a pain specialist that was a damn quack, and who could never get my script right. I asked my private pcp for a list of other pain specialists, I called all of them, and all of them refused to see me, because I had already been seen by the first incompetent boob. I ended up back at the va out of necessity. Do you have a veterans assistance commision anywhere near you? They are payed by the tax payers and not the vso’s or the va, and are answerable to the people of the county they serve. Amvets are not beholding to the va either. Nor is a good lawyer. Your case is the most egregious I have ever heard of, I think the local news and news papers need to know your story, shame them into submission. Altho this could be terrible advice, from what you already said. I believe Dennis went through a similar ordeal, Dennis would be the best to chime in on what your going through. Remember, we veterans never give up,,,,,,,,,,,,,it isn’t in our DNA.

T
T

It says comments are closed on this topic, is it? Testing. If so why?

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

ITS NOT

T
T

Thank you! Since I got sit down finally I thought I’d have to try writing and posting anyway before I make another morning move. This is the only forum I can post on without getting banned, censored, or threatened on. We don’t have free speech forums like Topix, etc, here. Truth and serious issues locally are not allowed. The powers that be here don’t want others to know how things roll here, and they don’t want anyone to blemish the state’s or town’s image.

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

This is the only forum I can post on without getting banned, censored,…… your right i posted on military dot com and they just delete my comments they just want to dish out their bullshit

T
T

Same here. Dave M at Mil dot com had some great information when dealing with the VA and disability issues until they changed ownership or something. I also got to meet one local guy that was posting on there with some of the same issues but sadly he has passed on. Since then their forum went far left and a few people there started giving me crap about my negative comments, stories, or info about VA care and how corruption rules my area and state. The last time I checked that forum was about down to nothing and banning everyone. So I stopped bothering trying to log on or read their site any longer.

That is why corruption and cover-ups, threats, can continue is due to state and local officials claim to protect our freedom of speech and the 1st Amendment but then turn around and censor or ban us. All our news paper’s, city council, local colleges, journalist to professors, and many others blessings and support just to push their own agendas and to hell with the rest of us. The sad part is that much of it is being done by other veterans too. If we posted a comment on the past news sections and did not agree with some commentary or actions by activist or politicians we’d get deleted and banned. The other sad part is that few seem to care about it, censoring, threats to us, or being totally ignored, to being fearful of “rocking the local political boat.”

I am in hope some day someone with the ability and know-how can start a forum for us to exchange ideas and stories from all the states and with real freedom of speech. To maybe form groups locally for coffee but that too is not allowed here with too many being afraid of some kind of labeling or suffering the consequences or retaliation for trying to group-up and spread some info around with hopes for some change. But info or grouping up in Indiana or the town of Terre Haute is impossible. Too much corruption, self-service, too many benefit from corruption and do no like some information being spread around or known of. Been fighting this crap all my life seemingly and see no end to it. But hopefully someone who can stand the pressure will make a open forum happen. Too much corruption and too many cliques, and the far far left to make things happen locally. I have been called a “nuisance.” (Or a pee-ant on the elephants butt..) Like pigeons to beavers, to us non-conformist, refuse to be door-mats or bow to corruption or tyrants, they destroy/silence nuisance varmints. They are doing a fine job of it too.

That is why I about dirtied my shorts when Trump added Pence and Donnely to his cabinet cause those two like other local politicians don’t give a damn about us, nor do their state agencies. I know. Also have been told all the negatives to our VA care comes from the VA, Homeland Security, the medical boards, schools of medicine, law enforcement, Congress, the POTUS, DoD, Pentagon, CDC, etc. So there must be one hell of a lot of shadow governing and enforcement going on. And the reason why no-one want to get involved, or claim “their hands are tied.” Or constant with playing the pass the buck game. While all we get is lip service, power plays, and ignored.

have a good day all!

T
T

It posted I think but I’ll try to keep this short. Yeah it’s all true and worse, especially since the lies and our records can be changed or events unreported or incompetence to threats covered up. I have tried attorneys, VSOs, vet groups, governor, state’s commerce and other so-called protective agencies and commerce protection offices to no avail. Lawyers never call back or don’t want involved like the vet groups like the Legion. Medical boards too, the whole sheebang but it just seems to make things worse which is typical in Indiana. To cover up issues and to ignore real issues and truth about all our corrupt goings on. Media here is nothing but a joke, don’t care, far left leaning and will not report on serious issues like this. It blemishes the fine state of Indiana. Plus all the VA workers to VSOs local family and connections, the cliques they all don’t want to upset or be accused of something or to offend.

So I don’t use the VA at all since I have seen how far they go to cover up, change and deleted online med and communications files on that “Secure Healthy E Vet” site which is not secure when some worker can delete and change want they want or to delete all communications, messages, just to cover things up there.

So I have totally exhausted all avenues for help, all. I just sit and wait for more retribution and cocky attitudes from the VA branding I seem to have got. Been trying to locate others at that group to no avail yet as witnesses but too many people fear the VA or don’t want to lose their care or make things worse for them. But I left the VA for good and don’t think I can trust surgery from a civilian MD today due to all the forms to sign and stupidity, games. Locally to state wide people or officials just don’t care and continue on censoring, ignoring, and allowing time to swiftly pass on.

IF we go off on somebody here it’s not good. The cops would be called or there are uses of emergency mental health detention for some getting too snippy with any of those professionals around here. So I don’t drink and keep my composure to avoid more problems and let them threaten away, get nasty, condescending, hateful, insane, show their burn-out, cause I am not going to mess up or get into trouble on their turf. That is what they want as they threaten to flag files ans such.

Lem
Lem

To T;

So call your VA and tell them you are going to the ER. Don’t tell them why until they get off that Choice block. DO NOT USE CHOICE! They will not pay the bill but when you call your VA the very first words are “if this is an emergency call 911. So consider your urgent care an emergency. Call 911, take an ambulance ride to the ER and call the VA and tell them you are waiting on an ambulance.

After a few ER visits I’ll bet the your VA will rescind and grant you Choice. Meanwhile get your care through the ER. Much faster and more complete in most instances. Tell the ER you can’t take a referral to a clinic because the VA won’t pay and they aren’t treating you right. Explain your VA’s attitude about Choice and say they seem to prefer paying ER Bills to paying Choice clinic visits.

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

The correct solution is to let the individual veteran choose whether they want to go to the VA, or to have their own doctor(s) outside the VA that then bills the government, and receives prompt payment from same for services provided.

Gary Augustine (Disabled American Veterans HMFIC) says: “The bottom line is, if you open up choice to anyone, and they can go anywhere, it will eventually drain resources from the VA. The VA will eventually whither on the vine.”

I say SO WHAT? STOP PLAYING POLITICS WITH MY HEALTHCARE. I do not care if it drains resources from the VA. I am tired of all the Bullshit games played with my life. Gary Augustine does NOT use the VA for his healthcare.

He sits in his ivory tower (Look up his DAV salary) and decides what is the best choice for all other veterans, whether they are members of his organization or not. Such Arrogant Bullshit.

Here is what I want for Healthcare:

1. I want a card that lets me pick a doctor I will be able to trust.

2. I want that doctor paid promptly by the government for their services.

3. I want the current catastrophe known as the VA and VSO’s to leave me the hell alone, unless they plan on actually doing something useful to improve my life situation. Since I have been fighting solo for my benefits for over twenty years with zero help from the VSO’s – – – It is unlikely that they will.

So I want them to shut the hell up and leave me alone. I, and I alone should make my CHOICE when it comes to MY healthcare.

T
T

While I am sitting here and logged on I will say this. I was informed that it is not only the VA. We, in my group, were told to contact our representatives, medical boards to the attorney general if we didn’t like VA care or health care in Indiana. I did. That is when endless harassing phone calls started against me, with some coming from the VA area code and the rest was blocked. Or told by some that they had already received calls about me and my complaints. Boiled down to me not having rights to file grievances over the government, medical boards or the state agencies to vet groups not wanting to get involved or ignoring me.

Needless to say here, but try contacting some “professional” here or trying to get someone to listen is impossible. Then we are put on the old Hoosier Merry Go round and there is no ring or bell to be seen to grab onto. They all just want time to pass, for us to die, to shut up, or maybe for some statute limitations to be passed. I guess that is all why Indiana is never in the news about it’s corruption, being a sanctuary state for illegals, and why we are censored so much here….and threatened. Like it’s useless to attend town hall meetings here because they too are stacked with many against us. Unless we are in some clique or connected in some way which I am not. I don’t believe in laying with dogs to get their fleas.

I also have to find a new sleep MD for a machine. I am still using a VA machine. That is after them losing my clinic file after years of being in that clinic, getting the machine, and on it for years. But go figure, it’s the fine VA way of things.

Have a good day all! Try to.

Dennis.
Dennis.

Wow three veterans organizations that don’t seem to believe that Democracy works.
Some how our country has to find a way to change the fact that we are short thousands of nurses and doctors. We have to find a way to finance the education cost of these two professions.
Who wants to spend the first twenty years of working to pay off student loans?
Dennis.

Nexdeceptus
Nexdeceptus

I’ve been playing this Va game exactly 40 years now. Two war horse Army nurses tried to turn me into a pretzel at Womack. Thats when my trouble really started. So what are you going to do? Nobody wants to listen. Nobody cares. I’ve even seen the Drs. staring at the cieling while I was trying to talk to them. Hell, I even had one Dr. say there was nothing he could do for me and walked out of the office and never came back! I sat there like an idiot wondering what the hell was going on. That was at Travis. Never going back there. Now I have to put up with the VA in Redding, Ca. A shit hole. My wife and I even got hastled by the local VA LE jokes just because we were sitting in the car drinking a soda! They thought they were sneaking up on me, I seen those morons coming a mile away. LOL! Did they say a medical student was gonna work on me? AAAHHH HAAA HAAA HAAA!

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

NEXDECEPTUS I had a doctor doctor do the same thing to me. asked him a question and he got up and left and never came back waited 20 min. looked around ,nowhere to be seen so I never went back and that was before i started to go to the V.A. that was private care he must have started off at the V.A……..LOL

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

if you open up choice to anyone, and they can go anywhere, it will eventually drain resources from the VA.” He continued, “The VA will eventually whither on the vine.”…….just like any type of big business if you should put out a shitty product you should whiter on the vine. and CJ they do want you to step through that door because that is one more certain amount of funds that go into the till for bonus money…. and as for CORPSMANUP i received better treatment from a corpsman than most doctors…..and i consider them marines as well, they had to go through the same bullshit we did……IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY PERIOD

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

I also agree with “cj”!
Re:
The first two VSO’s in Ben’s (scathing) report, states:
1.) ‘American Legion’ – Charles Schmidt – wants to “avoid” an “all-out privatization…”!
2.) DAV (Disabled American Veterans) – Gary Augustine – says basically – the VA will be as a “Ghost Town” *IF* veterans are given the “Rights” to use quality outside healthcare.
Both of these VSO’s are trying, in my opinion, to figure out HOW to keep their “VA Gravy Train” from slipping away. The DAV being the most corrupt of the two.
3.) VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) – Brian Duffy – had the only response I SOMEWHAT agree with; ie: “…FIX – NOT DISMANTLE…” the VHA’s nationwide!

That being said-
The DAV is correct in what he said. The VHA’s nationwide would go the way of the do-do bird. Because, I believe, *IF* given the opportunity/chance, veterans in large numbers would rather be seen by “professional healthcare providers” – rather than be seen by “Students”, “Nurses”, etc., etc., etc.!

Wasn’t it the American Legion which had a study done a couple years ago, asking veterans about their VA healthcare? Then they turned around, because the “results” didn’t match what they wanted – so they “round filed it into the garbage?!?!?”

I’ve got a sneaking suspicion, we’re going to hear something great in the near future. I have this feeling these VSO’s are going to be “called out” over how their treating their members!
And, it’s all going to be over that money President Trump raised!!!!!! Where did it go? How did they use it? We’re any veterans directly helped from it?
The questions could go on!!!!!
I just hope I’m right!!!!!!!!!

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

I hope you are correct on your sneaking suspicion, Elf. I truly do. If I recall correctly, it was the HMFIC’s of the Big Three VSO’s that whined loudest about not getting the money POTUS Trump raised for veterans when he skipped the one event.

Later, when he said he needed to make sure the recipients were properly vetted before doling out the moolah, the MSM went nuts! HOW DARE HE TAKE MORE THAN A WEEK TO DO THAT?

Seemed prudent to me.I been waiting in excess of twenty years for mine from the VA. VSO’s couldn’t wait for theirs for more than a couple months.

Bullshit.

I would love to see the POTUS grill the Dinosaur VSO HMFIC’s . . .

91Veteran
91Veteran

Crazy Elf, these VSOs just don’t realize how stupid they sound.

If a VA becomes a ghost town, why would that be if they offered such great, quality care?

If that truly is all they can come up with, then they have no credible argument.

Cantigny
Cantigny

Certainly hope you are right, really really do.

Dennis
Dennis

According to DAV head Garry Augustine, “The bottom line is, if you open up choice to anyone, and they can go anywhere, it will eventually drain resources from the VA.” He continued, “The VA will eventually whither on the vine.”

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm,. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Oh my goodness… on how many levels can DAV sell out America on? Lets see…

Level number one – vets are not individuals. They are a resource for VA.
Level number two – vets are the bottom line.
Level number three – VA is a living growing thing that needs nurturing.
Level number four – The horrific drain on America’s reaources might be drained of resources???
Level number five – DAV suggests that VA will wither on the vine ignoring the fact the fruit is already rotten.

DAV, you excersized your First Ammendment rights and laid out your position which is this; if suffering veterans are allowed to alleviate their suffering by excersizing their own rights you fear that an agency recognized worldwide, nationwide, and at virtually every single facility as being among the most corrupted organizations on the planet might wither on the vine??? Good Lord man, have you seen the SIZE of their administrative staff??? I can think of 17 appropriate ways, and 38 much less appropriate ways to describe the physical appearance of VA vine danglers but NONE of them uses the word “withered”!!! My God, how much withering can billions upon billions of mispent, misappropriated, and misguided funding would it take for the damn vine to even go away???

To hell with the Choice program, let’s get some damn Roundup weed spray and follow through on Trump’s promise. Fuck withering, let’s kill the damn thing!!! Now I think I better go water my marijuannna…my own Choice Program!

Bill
Bill

Dennis. Don’t Bogart thst joint dude

namnibor
namnibor

“Three Little Pigs”, a song by ‘Green Jelly’ This song says all I feel about the ‘Three Idiot VSO’s”:

“[Advisory – the following lyrics contain explicit language: (like any Veteran has virgin ears)

Why don’t you, sit right back,
And I, I may tell you, a tale.
A tale of three, little pigs,
And a big, bad, wolf.

Well the first little piggy, well he was kinda hip.
He spent most of his days, just a dreaming of the city.
And then one day, he bought a guitar.
He moved to Hollywood, to become a star.
But, living on the farm, he knew nothing of the city.
Built his house out of straw, what a pity.
And then one day, jamming on some chords,
Along came the wolf, knocking on his door.

Little Pig, Little Pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Little Pig, little pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Well I’m huffing, I’m puffing, I’ll blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing and a puffin and I’ll blow your house in!

Well the second little piggy, well he was kinda stoked.
He spent most of his time just a ganga smoking.
Huffing and a puffin down on Venice Beach.
Getting paid money for religious speech.
He built his shelter from what he garbage picked.
Mostly made up of old cans and sticks.
Then one day he was cranking out Bob Marley,
And along came the Wolf on his big bad Harley.

Little Pig, Little Pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Little Pig, little pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Well I’m huffing, I’m puffing, I’ll blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing and a puffin and I’ll blow your house in!

Well the third little piggy, the grade A student.
His daddy was a rock star, named Pig Nugent.
Earned his Masters Degree, from Harvard College.
Built his house from his architect knowledge.
A tri-level mansion, Hollywood Hills.
Daddy’s rock stardom, paid for the bills.
And then one day came the old house smasher
The big bad wolf, the little piggy slasher.

Little Pig, Little Pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Little Pig, little pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Well I’m huffing, I’m puffing, I’ll blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing and a puffin and I’ll blow your house in!

Well the big bad Wolf,
Well he huffed, and he puffed, all that he could.
And low and behold the little piggy’s house stood.
“It’s made out of concrete!” The little piggy shouted.
The wolf just frowned, as he pouted.
So they called nine-eleven, like any piggy would.
The sent out Rambo, just as fast, as they could.

“Yo, wolf-face, I’m your worst nightmare, your ass is mine!”

Well the wolf fell dead as you can plainly see.
That’s to end the story, for you and me.
If you still give a listen, you just may,
Here the big wolf or little piggy say.

Little Pig, Little Pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Little Pig, little pig, let me in.
Not by the hair of my chinny, chin, chin!
Well I’m huffing, I’m puffing, I’ll blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing, puffin, blow your house in.
Huffing and a puffin and I’ll blow your house in!
Huffing and a puffin and I’ll blow your house in!
Huffing and a puffin and I’ll blow your house in!
Huffing and a puffin and I’ll blow your house in!

“And the moral of the story is,
A band with no talent can easily amuse
Idiots, with a stupid, puppet show.]”

namnibor
namnibor

Pink Floyd– “Pigs (Three Different Ones)”

“[“Pigs (Three Different Ones)”

Big man, pig man, ha ha, charade you are
You well heeled big wheel, ha ha, charade you are
And when your hand is on your heart
You’re nearly a good laugh
Almost a joker
With your head down in the pig bin
Saying “keep on digging”
Pig stain on your fat chin
What do you hope to find?
When you’re down in the pig mine
You’re nearly a laugh
You’re nearly a laugh
But you’re really a cry.
Bus stop rat bag, ha ha, charade you are
You fucked up old hag, ha ha, charade you are
You radiate cold shafts of broken glass
You’re nearly a good laugh
Almost worth a quick grin
You like the feel of steel
You’re hot stuff with a hat pin
And good fun with a hand gun
You’re nearly a laugh
You’re nearly a laugh
But you’re really a cry.
Hey you Whitehouse, ha ha, charade you are
You house proud town mouse, ha ha, charade you are
You’re trying to keep our feelings off the street
You’re nearly a real treat
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused?
…..!…..!…..!…..!
You gotta stem the evil tide
And keep it all on the inside
Mary you’re nearly a treat
Mary you’re nearly a treat
But you’re really a cry.]”

Rosebud
Rosebud

Oh Nam! I wanted to submit that when the time was ripe for trump! The words are by Roger Waters. He sang it in Mexico City in protest of trump and the wall. He also sang it on Inauguration Day as part of the anti-trump people. It describes trump perfectly!

Just Another Veteran
Just Another Veteran

All the more reason to rebuke my lifetime memberships with the DAV and VFW. They need to quit crying about member numbers when they don’t lobby for squat for veterans. They’re so wrapped up with AFGE money is disgusting. And BTW, American Legion, your feeble attempt to support medical Marijuana to increase your member numbers is nothing but a smoke screen. We can clearly see you’re in bed with lobbying dollars as well.

Bill
Bill

Nice pun…Smoke screen..haha

Dennis
Dennis

Does it occur to any other old timer who was raised and supervised by a black and white 12″ television set sporting rabbit ears that VA is a WHOLE lot like Gilligan’s Island? The professor can make a microwave oven out of two coconuts and a bannana peel but can NEVER come up with a good reacue plan that does not involve Gilligan??? And why the hell is Skipper still in charge when he wrecked the boat? If life is so tough on a deserted island, where did Ginger get the makeup from? Thurston was Thurston on or off the Island and enjoyed buying off people anywhere. Lovey seemed wise and caring and kind but just did not contribute much work for the benefit of the Island, now did she?

The only hard worker on the Island was Mary Ann and her reward for all of her effort was she had to share a hut with the slut.

Yep, VA is a lot like Gilligan’s Island.

namnibor
namnibor

V.A. Titanic runs aground Gilligan’s Island. Perfect, Dennis!! “Share a hut with a slut”. LMAO!

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

VA = Gilligan’s Island. Keen observation. Funny as hell.

When do we get rescued?

91Veteran
91Veteran

The problem we have are the traitorous VSOs dumping water on our signal fire every time a ship passes the island.

Bastards!

namnibor
namnibor

The VSO’s are only concerned for the welfare of the VA. They no longer are Vet-Centric and should lose their charter and tax exemption if they continue to cater to the AFGE piggy’s insatiable incessant hunger for that Veteran Cookie Jar.

“Save The VA”….the VSO’s have been chanting this mantra hard last few years, nothing has changed if Shulkin gets his armchair advice from the three little pigs.

Again, I MUST ask; Where’s that “Beer Mogul” that was supposed to help Sec. Shulkin? Or was that simply an under the table contract done to benefit the various VSO Lodge’s Bars with well-stocked SUDS? H-m-m-m-m-m-m….?!

91Veteran
91Veteran

Yes, the VSOs only care about the VA.

They are VA Service Organizations.

They are VAShOles.

I too have been wondering where Leinenkugel has been.

As I said when he was first announced, was appointing him some kind of favor to Paul Ryan or Priebus?

Is he required to bring free beer to all their meetings?

Cantigny
Cantigny

I don’t believe Shulkin is/will fix much at VA. more like carry on with biz as usual. and along the way with a few well written opines of how the many so called great changes are taking place and benefiting veterans.

yeah, come to think of it, what did happen to that guy that was supposed to help him?

without the weight of Trump’s WH, his DOJ and a few others i can’t think of right now, shining a light on Shulkin and team and having Trump check off his list what he really wants fixed and swamp drained at VA, i just don’t see anything changing at VA. sure some cosmetic changes and stuff but VA is so huge and entrenched no matter Shulkin’s best intentions, without serious bite from Trump’s WH, VA/VBA won’t change at all.

how many presidents have some of old timers seen come and go and over those years all of us have expressed concerns about VA to anyone who would listen, and what has really changed? are we not still here expressing our same ol concerns? VA and its union has only gotten wealthier and more powerful, that much has changed. 😉

namnibor
namnibor

One last thought: Maybe we have been going about acquiring the very best VA medical care all along and the VSO’s have had this well-hidden secret right out in the open all along and right under or around our noses, literally.
The HATS.

When a VSO goes in for a VA appointment the VSO upside down flower pot with a curtain tassel hanging off must trigger the VA hacks to respect them.

Must think about creating a hat collection from objects around me like McGyver, but with hats. 🙂

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

@Ben, a few questions —-

I wonder, can President Trump take away their charters?

How about the tax-exempt status?

What can be done to show these reprobates their no longer a viable asset to veterans?

Just EXPOSING their refusal to get behind WHAT their supposed to do, isn’t really having an impact! I believe more needs to be done to them!
Please respond!

Dennis
Dennis

Frankly the tried and true method, although somewhat dated, of the practice of tar and feathering of the men and women in those organizations then running them out of the country in front of jeerig crowds would be far more worthy of a Trump Presidency imo. Hablo English senior?

Just remember to point the tar mop in the right direction before you release the safety…

Dennis
Dennis

With ideas like these it dismays me that POTUS has not invited my testimony at The White House. Hell I haven’t even been invited to The Out House yet testify by POTUS. WTF!!!

Maybe it’s time to start my own run at the Presidency….

namnibor
namnibor

@Dennis– You would have my full support of all the poop canons available in Midwest from my vantage point.

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

Better yet, time to call in a fire mission using the poop cannons.

Ryan Honl
Ryan Honl

What everyone is advocating here in the comments is the Trump VA reform plan. Shulkin has the message and is responding accordingly. And I do know from someone who was on the transition team that Shulkin has an extremely small window to implement the plan. If he doesn’t he will replace him with someone far less palatable to the special interests and it will be easier to confirm a hard ass. As a result Shulkin is in the media every day pushing private options. Something his former boss Bob refused to do.

Dennis
Dennis

I am not really concerned with the hardness of a persons ass just so long as they get in gear pronto.

Just Another Veteran
Just Another Veteran

Honl, you’ve come a long way since you were an integral part of me losing entire segments of medical care at Tomah. You’ve now advanced to having insider info from someone on the Trump transition team. With all your grandstanding, when is your mouth going to actually work to get us Tomah veterans medical care we lost and never recovered. With those connections, you certainly must have access to getting emergency private care for those of us now virtually entirely without medical care for service connected conditions.

I’ll be waiting for your next heroic move. So far I’m only suffering loss.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

@Just Another Veteran,

It wasn’t Ryan Honl which caused you to lose your healthcare. It was the VHA @Tomah which caused it.
I’m sorry you can’t see that!
Tomah VHA caused the deaths of veterans, plain and simple!

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Ryan Honl – Ryan this is exactly what Veterans are hoping for, like you stated, “If he [Shulkin] doesn’t he will replace him with someone far less palatable to the special interests and it will be easier to confirm a hard ass.” Simple as that Bro.

And, you seems like you owe @Just Another Veteran a heart felt apology. JAV, sorry for what those fuck ups did to you. Geesh.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Ryan, it is interesting to see how Shulkin has changed his public comments from no privatization on his watch to eliminating the Choice expiration date.

Whether Shulkin said what he needed to say to get confirmed or whether he was told how things are going to be, I don’t know.

Either way, it seems he has had a come-to-Jesus moment.

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

@Just Another Veteran – – – Sorry for your loss, but it was not Ryan Honl that caused it. What Ryan did helped veterans nationwide. Wish you could see that. I am better off here in Honolulu because of Ryan’s actions up at Tomah.

@Ryan Honl – – – Mahalo Nui Loa (Formal Hawaiian Thank You) for your sacrifice. I am well-are that the government really came at you hard for what you did. In a fair and just world, they would have celebrated you as a hero. You are one of mine.

And yes, I like what POTUS Trump proposed for Veterans Healthcare. I want that delivered upon.

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

well-aware not well-are.

91Veteran
91Veteran

I would think it would take an act of congress to revoke their charters.

Or a credible complaint to the IRS with evidence of misusing funds, or using them for a purpose other than intended.

With thousands of homeless veterans while a veterans organization flunky makes $400k, I don’t think either congress or the IRS gives a shit.

Lem
Lem

Make the VA compete with other facilities. If the VA wants veterans as patients for human studies let them compete or give care to Medicaid recipients to fill the bill the way they did for the Neurology joint studies with Yale Medical School in the late 1980s into the 1990s.

Don Avant
Don Avant

Just more evidence that these VSOs are in lockstep with the VA’s agenda and seriously OUT OF STEP with the needs and preferences of the majority of Vets they’re SUPPOSED TO BE REPRESENTING…

Vets need a whole new way to be heard…We need to join together in ONE VOICE,,,

http://donavantwebsites.com/veterans-political-action-committee/

I propose Ben to head this organization…

91Veteran
91Veteran

Given what happened in Durham, and that veterans wife making clear that VA director Deanne Seekins lied about contacting and thanking them, the VA has no intention of changing and we should get full Choice.

Whether the VA shits down, I don’t care.

Now, since the DAV, VFW and Legion want to stand in the way of veterans getting proper medical care, and they claim they are speaking for veterans, then I demand they lobby congress for accountability legislation that has real teeth.

Until they do that and it gets passed, they can go piss up a rope.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

91Veteran,
I know a few of the American Legion posts here in Florida wanted President Trump to be POTUS.
National wanted Clinton.
They also wanted veterans to have a choice.
National wants No Choice.

So, I can only think, that’s this way in all VSO’s – What the members want doesn’t mean squat!

It’s going to take something really big to get these VSO Head Honchos back on track to —–
“Serve the veteran, NOT the Veterans Administration!”

The only thing I believe would scare the living crap out of them is twofold;
*IF* there was a threat of them losing their charters AND/OR their tax exempt status!

That’s my opinion!
P.S. Maybe even fine them for something!

91Veteran
91Veteran

I agree it would get their attention Crazy Elf, but I can’t see too many in Congress supporting action against a VSO.

It would have to be forced by some scandal.

A scandal bigger than the number of homeless vets, number of suicides per day and pictures of veterans lying on the floor waiting for the VA to stop withering, come to life and provide care.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Shits. Somestime autocowrecks are honest.

Dennis
Dennis

This is copied from VA’s website on employment – Maybe vets and the VA employees can trade benefits?

“Coverage Options:
Our employees have an outstanding number of health insurance plans from which to choose, including exceptional vision and dental plans
For all of our health insurance plans, premiums are partially paid by the Federal Government, and employees have the opportunity to change plans annually
Our employees have the option to use Flexible Spending Accounts, which allow you to use tax-free dollars to pay for medical, dental, and vision care expenses that are not reimbursed by your health insurance plan
Term life insurance, family, and additional coverage options are available with the cost shared by the Federal Government
Long-term care insurance is available as an option

Liability Protection:
As Federal employees, our health care professionals are protected by the Federal Government in instances of alleged malpractice or negligence resulting from the performance of their duties in, or for the Veterans Health Administration of the Department of Veterans Affairs. The United States Government accepts responsibility and liability for its employees’ negligent or wrongful acts or omissions during the exercise of their official duties. This applies when employees’ actions are in accordance with the policies of the institution in which they are practicing.”

question; why doesn’t the last paragraph read, “As a federal benefit recipient, our patients are protected by the Federal Government in instances of malpractice or negligence”? Isn’t that honestly what the VSO’s are arguing against? Forget that VA folks are enticed with all kinds of Choice, where the hell are the VSO’s when it comes to the carnage that such a horrific policy of unaccountability produces that is openly dangled like a carrot to entice employment. Or is this the part of the vine they hope to preserve???

Dennis
Dennis

AND FOR GODS SAKE can somebody WAY smarter than me explain how a “wrongful act” can possibly be “in accordance with the policies of the institution in which they are practicing.” ???

How the hell is this even possible???

namnibor
namnibor

Oxymorons with funny hats. <—grammatically, that's double jeopardy moron.

Just Another Combat Wounded Veteran
Just Another Combat Wounded Veteran

You expect any better from the VA? Why??
This is how truly f’ed up they are. Too stupid to even write coherent, functional policies. They live in the world of Catch-22, and it’s as good as it’s gonna get for them in their lives.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Isn’t it interesting the VSOs have no problem with VA employees having their Choice in health care while blocking their own members from that same choice?

I’m curious how many VSOs have spouses working for the VA who take advantage of that choice in insurance.

Jo3n
Jo3n

This seems like a game. One second I think I’m winning, then I’m losing. I have had a decent medical Dr. at 1 VA. More than twenty years ago. Only seen a couple “supposedly” Dr.’s since. I find it extremely difficult to believe anyone would choose the VA. I live more than 40 miles from nearest VA. The Dr. at clinic just won’t refer me. The VA is more known for destroying lives, and creating havoc. The VSO’S are in it for themselves. Definitely not Veterans.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

The more I hear about the VHA/VBA and the VSO’s, the angrier I get. It’s only “natural”, says my wife.
So, because these last few blogs, and the egregious acts committed by VHA’s nationwide – the wife sent this to me —-

“Does it count as saving someone’s life if you refrain from fucking killing them?”

I’d have to say “FUCK YES!”

Peterson, L.H.
Peterson, L.H.

BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..COUGH GASP..BAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!