Study: Tests For DNA Damage May Help Veterans Prove Gulf War Illness

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dna damage

A new study found the “first biological evidence” that veterans with Gulf War Illness have unique DNA damage found in blood tests.

The studies show veterans with Gulf War Illness (GWI) have 20 percent greater DNA damage than a control group. Blood tests showed veterans with GWI had greater lesions and more mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). The mtDNA are extra copies of genes. Greater lesion frequency shows the extent of DNA damage. Higher numbers of mtDNA show the response level necessary for the body to respond to the damage.

Basically, more lesions result in more mtDNA to respond to the DNA damage.

“Mitochondrial dysfunction among Veterans with GWI may help explain, in part, the persistence of this illness for over 25 years,” the researchers wrote. “For example, chemical and environmental exposures during deployment may have provided the initial [harm] to mtDNA and accumulation of damage.”

The extent of the damage depends in large part on the toxins the veteran was exposed to during the Gulf War.

Given VA’s huge push for genomic data, how long do you think the agency will take to develop testing models to help veterans with GWI prove their disability?

VA Giving Away Veteran Genomic Data

VA frequently boasts that it’s the leader in precision medicine and big data.

According to HealthITNews in its article, How Veterans Affairs is leading with big data, precision medicine:

The VA has been gathering genomic data since 2012 when it launched the Million Veteran Program to get blood samples from 1 million veterans. 

The information gleaned from their DNA will be used to better serve their health, and is being stored anonymously for use in research. The aim is to build one of the world’s largest databases of genetic and other health information, Lee said.

“The goal is to expand secure computational capacity and establish a safe CLIA (Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments) compliant biorepository,” Lee said.

Best of all, for health researchers who have trouble getting enough patients for clinical trials, the VA wants to share its information.

“The VA is seeking collaborations with other mega cohorts to conduct large-scale genomic studies,” Lee said.

In a move furthering Biden’s Cancer Moonshot initiative, the VA’s, precision oncology program provides veterans access to genomic tests. This includes next generation sequencing and liquid biopsies.

The VA has a partnership with IBM Watson to send tumor samples and data to the technology healthcare company.

Veterans make up 3.5 percent of all cancer cases in the U.S., Lee said

In other innovations, the VA is using big data to target early intervention for suicide risk. Every day, 20 veterans take their lives by suicide, Lee said. The VA Reach Vet program identifies veterans who may be at risk by tapping information from their electronic health records.

Big Medicine, Big Data Wins, Veterans Lose

So, VA is giving away the genomic data for cancer to IBM and evaluating suicide data.

Some of you may have seen my report last week in The Hill exposing VA’s use of animal research to benefit the interests of foreign-based companies over disabled veterans who could use those same resources to prove disabilities related to burn pit exposure.

While VA now disavows the use of those studies to provide disabilities, they do like using those same expensive resources to help private industry earn massive provides through various medical device inventions:

VA and other authorities formerly relied on animal research, including canine research, to measure the effects of toxic exposures on veterans from Agent Orange, but those same organizations no longer consider animal research valid for that purpose, telling the New Republic that such studies would be “difficult, expensive, and time-consuming to conduct.”

When Will Veterans Truly Benefit?

How long before these advances are actually implemented to combat veteran suicide or fight cancer or help veterans prove their disability claims? Suicide numbers remain the same. Veterans with GWI still struggle incredible fights to prove their claims, usually only failing to succeed.

It seems almost fantastic that all this money is being pumped in to benefit the research without that research benefiting veterans in the most simplistic of ways.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5599026/pdf/pone.0184832.pdf

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Dennis
Dennis

“So, VA is giving away the genomic data for cancer to IBM and evaluating suicide data.”

Can you tell me how a computer is supposed to take veteran DNA, cross reference that information to malpractice and incompetance, adjust the data for corruption, and validate the results by Congress? Tell you what, let me get out my slide rulers…..

My own study confirms it IS related to DNA!!! My slide ruler concludes that vets who are genetically predisposed to entering VA healthcare for mental health are 22 times (per day) more likely to suicide, and 52 times more likely to die from any disease including cancer, than those who are born with the good sense to not eat raw meat, not drive blindfolded, and not enter VA healthcare facilities.

President Trump, want to borrow my slide ruler and get this problem fixed? Hablo English?

namnibor
namnibor

All one has to do for an example of what could possible go wrong with the VA and Veteran genetic data, just review first “Jurassic Park” movie to see how the VA would bypass all safety and ethics in exchange for massive profits in short term…maybe all we Veterans need to go full raptor on the VA?!

Dennis
Dennis

Wait a minute namnibor!!! These are some serious allegations you make! You are comparing the VA to an enormously expensive movie in which one morbidly obese and sweaty man betrayed all rules, laws, and ethics regarding human life and unlocked some serious social misery upon society in the petty pursuit of money???

…..hmmmm….on second thought, never mind.

namnibor
namnibor

AFGE Union Pres. Cox was very closely modeled for that part. Spared absolutely no expense. 🙂

91Veteran
91Veteran

Which part? The fat computer guy stealing the embryos who took a velociraptor for a ride in his jeep?

namnibor
namnibor

Yeah, same sweaty fat guy stealing embryos…except in the AFGE/VA case, those embryos are all future brand new dues paying AFGE members. The VA Haunted Laboratories are cloning engorged purple teams so the original beast can claim to work from home while collecting fat paycheck. This is how VA Telemedicine operates. The VA proudly touts the program as “Bonbons From Bed”(BFB…closely resembling other program ‘Big Fucking Butts’, but different).

namnibor
namnibor

RAND reports that ‘DNA’ for VA purposes actually really stands for “Does Not Apply”, and this relates to all safety, health, & privacy protocols established for all Veterans and is superseded by profits on the backs of Disabled Veterans and it further stands for “Do Not Ask” when requesting lifesaving healthcare because it “Does Not Apply”…all “DNA” has been repurposed/redefined/repackaged by your VA but as a Veteran, “Do Not Accept”.

namnibor
namnibor

Off-Topic: Dr. John Kapoor, CEO Billionaire of INSYS, maker of a very powerful opioid spray that was only for severe cancer related pain was arrested…he was getting Dr.’s to RX to non-cancer patients and kept patients on it for years…by time patients got off they already went to streets to replace the addiction with heroin or black market pills…he was arrested and he immediately posted $1 Million CASH and is free on bail…don’t you think a Billionaire’s bail was a tad pointless? I’m waiting for the nexus to the VA and how Veterans were abused as well. Wait for it…

APCduck
APCduck

Sounds like Agent Orange all over again. The only humans thatwill make out in this are the ones connected to Big Pharma and are in government.

Lem
Lem

With you on this one Ben. Ginny Pigs for drug development and no return to the VA. Government funds Big Pharma wealth in more ways than one.

Dennis
Dennis

Government funds big pharma folks. Big pharma funds government folks. Neither one harvests a single grain of food, builds a single dwelling, or produces any items used in creation of capital.

They fuel each other and burn through cash like a Griswald in Las Vegas.

Dennis
Dennis

Hey wait a minute! Todays bad VA art is showing something I wanted secret!!! I knew something looked familiar! That is MY DNA that Ben has posted, and for what??? Bad art??? Damnit, that was supposed to be for research, not blogging!

… I’m calling my congressman!

namnibor
namnibor

Well, I knew it wasn’t my own DNA because mine is tied-up into square knots, not a double helix. However, if you tie a bunch of square knots right behind each other and tightly, it will naturally spin out of control…a bit like me.

js
js

Do the research. Did the VA ever represent that the million vet program would be used to conduct research FOR VETERANS BENEFITS?

If they did, sue them. It was a fraudulent statement made to fraudulently induce veterans to participate. If they didnt,…well…I dont foresee this being the case.

js
js

PS…they removed the POTUS pic’s in the entrance from the west garage in the Orlando VAMC…

are they EVER going to do this right?

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

js,
I have an appointment at the Orlando, Lake Baldwin, VHA this afternoon. I’ll check it out!

js
js

I was at Lk Nona

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

js,
Thanks, it had to be one of those two!

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

Here’s something of interest for y’all.
From: “Military Advantage Blog”
dated: Oct 26, 2017
Posted by: Tom Philpott
Titled:
“House Panel: Vet Groups See No ‘Deal Breaker’ on ‘Choice’ Reform”

Check it out!

NiteWish
NiteWish

It wasn’t long after my recent hospitalization & local VA clinic appt that I received the postcard to join the Million Veteran Program. Has me wondering if VA hasn’t already done a liquid biopsy on my blood work & have no plans to tell me the results.
liquid biopsies = A test done on a sample of blood to look for cancer cells from a tumor that are circulating in the blood or for pieces of DNA from tumor cells that are in the blood. A liquid biopsy may be used to help find cancer at an early stage.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

After reading the study it seems a bit shaky like it wasn’t meant to prove anything that will help Veterans with Gulf War Syndrome.

With all the tools and databases and sample available to the researchers they could have done much more to help Veterans. Instead of doing a limited scope research study with no clear answers.

Take for example the database mentioned in the following post article that was available for them to use.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

“Government More Prepared to Treat Soldiers Returning from Gulf This Time” Corkery, Michael. Knight Ridder Tribune Business News; Washington[Washington]22 June 2003

“Jun. 22–PROVIDENCE, R.I. — When about 200,000 American troops return from Iraq, the government will be better prepared to treat their medical needs than during the first war in the Persian Gulf, the U.S. secretary of veterans affairs says.

Secretary Anthony J. Principi says this time, the U.S. military compiled medical data on a large number of soldiers and stored their blood samples before they deployed to war.
Principi says this should improve the ability of the Department of Veterans Affairs to detect any illnesses related to the battlefield.

The department wants to be ready to deal with illnesses such as the Gulf War syndrome, which continues to debilitate veterans and confound experts, he said. “I am grateful that we have learned a lot of lessons from Iraq One,” Principi said. Later, he added, “We are better able to gauge their health before and when they come back. On the health-care side of the house, we are better able to take care of them.”

Principi was in Providence Friday for the swearing-in ceremony of Rhode Island Court Administrator Thomas G. Bowman, a former acting assistant secretary in the Department of Veterans Affairs. In a 30- minute interview before the ceremony, Principi discussed the state of Veterans Affairs — the federal government’s second-largest department.

Much has changed between the time Principi served in the Vietnam War and his two sons served in Iraq this year. For one, he said, fewer soldiers are being killed or injured in the modern-day wars of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Compared with the 58,000 deaths and the hundreds of thousands of severe injuries in Vietnam, American losses today are relatively small, he said. But many veterans of the Iraq war will suffer injuries or illnesses that manifest themselves years later.

“War may be of a very short duration, taking Baghdad in hours, not days, or months, but there is a lifetime of concern, care and benefit that we need to give them years after they come back.”
Principi said the Gulf War syndrome continues to baffle researchers, who have no conclusive explanation why certain troops suffered from chronic fatigue and severe muscle pain.

Some researchers have blamed these symptoms on stress, but Principi said he’s not satisfied with that explanation. He has commissioned a committee to examine even the most unconventional theories and has allocated $20 million toward researching the syndrome.

“We don’t have answers to Persian Gulf syndrome, so at this stage, we are not sure if there is going to be any long-term health effects for the men and women that served [most recently] in the Gulf,” he said.
There have been no reports of chemical or biological agents being released during the latest war. But Principi says there could be pathogens in the blowing sand, causing long-term respiratory illnesses.”

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Also of Great interest on the views of the Sec of Veterans Affairs regarding the wait list in 2003. From the same article.

“Principi said the department has opened outpatient clinics and given priority to soldiers injured in combat, the poor and those with severe disabilities, but he admits some veterans have to wait for care.

“There are waiting lists, and it’s of great concern to me. We are taking every possible step to reduce those waiting lists,” Principi said.

He said he sent a friend who was paralyzed in Vietnam and now serves as one of his undersecretaries to enroll in care wearing old jeans and carrying his combat papers. At six of the eight VA facilities the veteran visited, he was told that the facility was over-subscribed. At one center in Colorado Springs, Colo., he was told to drive to Salt Lake City, Utah

“I understand Congress opened the door to everyone, but we have to always remember those who took a bullet, who lost a leg to a land mine or were exposed to Agent Orange and have cancer,” he said.

While the department is experiencing an influx of patients now, Principi said the overall population of veterans is decreasing.

Many of the World War II and Korean War veterans are dying, and the Vietnam-era veterans are reaching their 60s. The newest group of veterans will be much smaller, given the downsizing of the military and the nature of warfare, he said.”

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Apparently they felt that the wait list would work itself out as more Veterans died off the list and demand for health care would go away.

91Veteran
91Veteran

I am not defending Principi, but what a contrast between him and what we see now after 8 years of no-holds barred thieving and corruption.

Sending an Undersecretary to conduct that kind of testing?

Agent Orange exposure and cancer?

Concerned Veteran
Concerned Veteran

Seymore Klearly right on I like your Comment .

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Ben,

I am sending you a cite with a link in an email. The access link contains certain info that would id my account do not want it trolled or cut off.

Also including a full copy of the article and abstract with additional info attached to the email.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Also, note that there isn’t any accessible published research using the database mentioned in the interview. So we know that any research using this database has been marked as “classified” or “secret”.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Another article you may be interested in on the same subject.

“In Search of a Gulf War With No Gulf War Illness”
Kolata, Gina. New York Times, Late Edition (East Coast); New York, N.Y. [New York, N.Y]25 Mar 2003: F.1.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Officials at the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Defense Department say they learned valuable lessons from their attempts to grapple with the mysterious illnesses — known collectively as gulf war syndrome — that plagued some veterans of the last gulf war.

This time, they are coordinating their efforts in an effort to forestall another outbreak of symptoms or, if one does emerge, to understand it.

The endeavor involves intense monitoring and measurement of the health of the troops and their exposures to microbes or potential toxins. Doctors and researchers will be able to track the medical records of troops before, during and after the war, and will have more detailed information on the location of troops during the war, what drugs and vaccines they received and when, and what substances they might have encountered in air, water and soil.

”We weren’t as prepared following the last gulf war as we will be with this one,” said Dr. Robert Roswell, the under secretary for health at the V.A.

Veterans groups have been closely following the new effort. Michael O’Rourke, the assistant director of health policy for the Veterans of Foreign Wars, a group with 2.7 million members, said he was encouraged. ”I believe we learned some lessons,” Mr. O’Rourke said.

The lessons emerged from a chastening experience after the last gulf war. About 700,000 men and women were deployed in 1991 and about 15,000 to 20,000 of them later complained that they had a troubling chronic illness with symptoms like fatigue, aches and pains, difficulty thinking or faltering memories. The complaints became known as gulf war syndrome or gulf war illness, and they took doctors by surprise.

Medical experts have been unable to identify a specific cause for the symptoms, and when they suggested they might be a reaction to stress, some veterans were scornful, suspecting that the government knew of a problem and was covering it up.

Suspicions grew when the Pentagon sporadically increased its estimates of how many troops might have been exposed to toxic substances.

But researchers who were asked to investigate threw up their hands in dismay. There was so little medical and exposure data that scientists could not fully investigate possible causes of the symptoms.

They said they lacked crucial data on the troops’ health before, during and after the war, they lacked necessary information on who might have been exposed to what in the Persian Gulf, and doctors with the V.A. did not have clinical guidelines for assessing veterans’ health. With data that were skimpy and unreliable, it was almost impossible to conduct good studies.

”We didn’t have the base line information we needed,” said Dr. William Winkenwerder Jr., the assistant secretary of defense for health affairs. ”We didn’t have good capture of events in the theater, and there wasn’t a systematic capture of information when they came out.” Until then, he said, such data were not viewed as important. ”It was never viewed as a critical thing to do for the service member,” he said.

That will not happen this time.

”People will come back with symptoms, of course, and they will believe they are related to the gulf,” said Anthony J. Principi, secretary of veterans affairs. ”But I believe we will be able to find answers: Was it the vaccine? Was it low levels of exposure to chemical or biological agents?” (He added that it would be immediately clear if troops were exposed to high levels of chemical or biological agents because they would get sick.)

Finding the answers to those questions was the goal repeatedly stressed by expert committees that investigated the illnesses reported by veterans of the previous gulf war.

”One of our recommendations from the first report was that the military collect the data that might be useful” in investigating the illnesses, said Dr. John C. Bailar III, who was chairman of an Institute of Medicine committee that published its report in 1996. ”Even if the ultimate result is to rule out any exposure, that is worth noting.”

Another Institute of Medicine committee gave the same advice in 2000. ”We were calling for better monitoring,” said Dr. Harold Sox, the editor of The Annals of Internal Medicine and the committee’s chairman.

The new effort to build a research database involves careful health assessments of troops before and after the war, including information that is essential for research on health effects. Doctors will use a structured set of questions and exams so that the clinical data will be comparable.

”Part of the problem we had with the Persian Gulf war is that V.A. physicians were not familiar with the exposures the troops had had, and they could not relate to vets coming back and saying things like they took these pills and didn’t know what they were,” Dr. Roswell said. ”Some vets complained that the doctors were not familiar with the issues of gulf war deployment.”

The Defense Department is also assessing the air, water and soil wherever troops are deployed and keeping records of who was exposed to what. And it is telling service members exactly what vaccines and drugs they are getting to prevent or treat diseases and those records too are being kept in a central database.

In the last gulf war, Dr. Winkenwerder said, ”we just sent teams forward to vaccinate.”

”There was not good record keeping,” he added, ”and different people got different amounts of shots.” Many worried about what they had received and whether they had been given experimental vaccines or drugs that might have made them ill.

In addition, the Veterans Affairs and Defense Departments are working together for the first time to compile data, Mr. Principi said. The agencies will have blood samples from the troops before and after deployment that will allow researchers to search for exposure to toxins.

Details on troop locations and potentially dangerous substances encountered will also be available.

Medics and doctors in the gulf are also carrying personal digital assistants to collect information on every medical complaint or illness. The data will be useful if any of the troops report symptoms later. But the data could also be crucial in surveillance for biological or chemical attacks.

Dr. Winkenwerder said he was optimistic that, this time, there might not be a gulf war syndrome, a mysterious undiagnosable illness and swirling accusations of a government cover-up. ”We think we can prevent it,” he said.

Mr. O’Rourke of the veterans group said he hoped Dr. Winkenwerder was right. ”Right now, I’m saying a lot of prayers,” Mr. O’Rourke said.

Researchers say the syndrome from the last gulf war remains a raw reminder of what is at stake. Congress held hearings, committee after expert committee at the Institute of Medicine investigated, but the illnesses remained mysterious.

”I don’t think it’s a single syndrome; I don’t know what it is,” said Dr. Nelda P. Wray, the chief research officer for the V.A. ”I have no idea of its etiology.”

Many medical scientists concluded that the symptoms were probably a response to stress — every war, from the Civil War on, has had a syndrome, with similar symptoms. Only the names have changed, said to Dr. Roswell, the V.A. under secretary, who also published a paper on the syndromes on Sept. 1, 1996, in The Annals of Internal Medicine.

Certainly, the last gulf war was stressful, Dr. Wray said, even before hostilities began. ”Not knowing what is going to happen, waiting for it to happen is very stressful,” she said. ”Just sitting in a hot tank in a desert waiting is substantially stressful.”

But researchers’ conclusions that they could not fully explain the illnesses only fed conspiracy theories. Some doctors and veterans held fast to a variety of convictions: the syndrome was a reaction to toxins in vaccines, or a reaction to infectious microbes, or a reaction to a drug the troops took to protect against nerve gas.

Doctors opened medical clinics where they diagnosed disorders and treated veterans, using expensive tests and drugs.

”A small number of doctors are absolutely convinced that they understand the gulf war syndrome and know what to do about it,” Dr. Bailar said.

”They don’t always agree,” he said of those doctors, ”but, boy, do they know what to do.”

Photograph

Troops performed field chemical exercises in the Saudi desert in 1991. This time the military is closely tracking possible chemical exposure. (Associated Press)(pg. F6)

Chart
”Veterans and Their Health”

Many soldiers complained of illnesses after the first gulf war. The government is preparing to gather much more detailed data on current personnel.

EXPOSURES DURING SERVICE — Percentage of first gulf war military personnel reporting that they were exposed to:

DIESEL, OTHER PETROCHEMICAL FUMES: 90.9%

PASSIVE SMOKING: 89.1

BURNING TRASH/FECES: 77.3

SMOKE FROM OIL WELL FIRES: 75.5

SKIN EXPOSURE TO FUEL: 74.8

SMOKE FROM TENT HEATERS: 70.6

ATE FOOD NOT FROM MILITARY: 70.1

PYRIDOSTIGMINE BROMIDE PILLS (FOR PROTECTION AGAINST NERVE GAS): 69.4

PESTICIDES: 68.5

PAINTS AND SOLVENTS: 53.7

ANTHRAX VACCINATION: 53.0

CONTAMINATED FOOD: 35.3

BATHED IN WATER NOT PROVIDED BY MILITARY: 29.9

SYMPTOMS AFTER SERVICE

Percentage of veterans reporting the following:

MUSCLE AND JOINT PAIN: 39.2%

HEADACHE: 27.9

SKIN RASH: 25.3

FATIGUE: 24.1

MEMORY PROBLEMS: 24.1

DIARRHEA: 14.0

SLEEP DISTURBANCES: 13.5

SHORTNESS OF BREATH: 10.2

ABDOMINAL PAIN: 4.6

NO COMPLAINTS: 8.6%

(Source: Dept. of Veterans Affairs, Dept. of Defense)(pg. F1)

Word count: 1552

LEC
LEC
Copyright New York Times Company Mar 25, 2003

Concerned Veteran
Concerned Veteran

Seymore Klearly I been really listening to I am you Veterans have great things to say Semper Fi.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

It’d be nice if there was another paper with same objectives, but less than 5-7 years old. But then again, taking all the fluctuating data that needs to be correlated to see any markers, is going to be valuable for warfare purposes.

For me, and to save a lot time, due to using an earlier paper, plus the results if calculated properly, will reveal what has changed (microbial findings, chemical residues, harmful toxins, etc.), and the data is closer to real-time (current).

But, as a researcher, nothing always works out perfect as you may have planned, it just doesn’t go well sometimes. This even happens in the scientific research paper industry. I remember one time, I spent over 3 days looking for certain topics of research papers. I found nothing. Depressing.

Like I’ve always said, and will continue to do, is to yell from the upper highlands, “Hey, investigate the VA. They (VA) got the corruption, you got the power.” Just say it over and over, it’ll sink in. Giver er some time now.

And you know, if someone came along, and had a hard-on for the VA, and had the resources to conduct deep research searches to find ANY and ALL papers that is related to your area of interest. Due to what already has been published pertaining to any illegal activities in the VA, there’s most likely damaging information that maybe found if and when the VA is investigated.

Whomever is in charge of conducting the probing, and or performing any examinations or comparisons of what is being investigated, will have a field day from being so busy with leads. I for one, believe that there is a lot of corruption and illegal activities occurring in the VA.

And, if the inertia gets going, and improprieties are detected, this could possibly cause a snowball effect. During the investigation of one area, the data collected leads to another area, and so forth.

If I was in the position of implementing this sort of assault on the VA, I’d do it in a NY second. When the VA is investigated, can you imagine what will be discovered? Cover Ups? Scandals? Theft? What say you? – – – Nutter.

sepp dietrich
sepp dietrich

independent medical investigator jon rapapport exposed the reality that “the scientific research paper industry” you mention in your comment – it’s all fraud. all scientific research that we, the slaves belonging to the all-lies, the research we have access to is a fraud.

you can look it up yourself. nomorefakenews is his webiste, i think, but as a medical researcher yourself, i’m sure you’re familiar with his work. or you should be. interesting point, as it looks like you don’t know a thing about the fraud.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Sepp dietrich – – – Hey bro thanks for heads up. And by the way, there’re many times that I post topics of possible interest or not, but it doesn’t mean that I support something because I mention it. So tell us researchers, where do we find the accurate stuffs at? Please share. Thanks. – – – Nutter.

91Veteran
91Veteran

…and 14 years later, they still don’t have a fucking clue.

But any reports from vets are easily discounted as conspiracy theories. Especially when they refuse to look.

Dennis
Dennis

….well, at least it MEANT that they still HAD the data Ben…

You are certainly monitored by VA, right? Now that they know what Ben Krause is looking for, I sense the shredding machines are warming up even as we speak….

namnibor
namnibor

VA Shredder Technology (VAST) has developed plutonium powered shredders with the thanks of some Navy Sub Surplus and some parts from IBM Watson and a few other very expensive taxpayer-funded VA robots. The shredder is always warm and willing at the base of the deep pit at the Aurora Colorado VAMC Black Hole. IBM Watson’s voice synth wavetables can be heard echoing in Rocky Mts. saying, “FEED ME”! It’s now self-aware, so am afraid it’s got the taste for blood and more sacrifices are needed…

91Veteran
91Veteran

What’s interesting about his comment on taking and storing blood…has anyone heard any beneficial results of that? Like say, a Burn Pit veteran asking for comparison testing between that stored sample and a current sample?

I also recall Congress passing a law, before the war in Iraq if I recall correctly, where anyone deployed was required to get a baseline medical screening before deployment. This law was passed because the VA and DOD claimed for years they had no baseline medical information on us before we deployed in the first Gulf War…as if thousands of sick Gulf War veterans were sick before we deployed.

If baseline medical screening is actually taking place, then why are Iraq vets being denied service connection of their injuries? The pre-deployment screening should be good evidence of their condition prior to being deployed.

None of that helps a veteran when facing a VA claims process in which they seem to think you deploy with your own personal doctor and lawyer to legally track your health throughout deployment.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

91Veteran,

Dembner, A. (2003, Mar 19). GULF WAR AILMENTS STILL AN ENEMY EFFECTIVE TREATMENTS REMAIN ELUSIVE, WITH FORECASTS OF NEW CASES. Boston Globe Retrieved from “https://search.proquest.com/”

“To ensure that better data is available this time, a 1997 law requires military doctors to examine soldiers individually, assess their mental and physical health, and take blood samples before they ship off to war.”

Advanced Google searches find numerous GAO reports listing the requirement.

Further research leads to “Public Law 105-85”, as the 1997 law that requires blood samples be taken before deployment of all enlisted personnel.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Thanks Seymore. I recall both the blood draw and the baseline medical exams being required because both VA and DOD bragged about them so much…as if that excused their complete failure to help Gulf War vets.

I haven’t heard anything about either being performed in years, which makes me wonder if they were ignored like many other things are ignored when being deployed.

Of if it were a half-assed program from the start. I have heard bits and pieces about the blood samples being at Ft. Detrick, but nothing solid.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

From copy of Public Law “Public Law 105-85” a.k.a. [105th Congress Public Law 85] National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1998”

Public posting on the web at: “https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ85/html/PLAW-105publ85.htm”

SEC. 765. IMPROVED MEDICAL TRACKING SYSTEM FOR MEMBERS DEPLOYED OVERSEAS IN CONTINGENCY OR COMBAT OPERATIONS.

(a) System Required.–(1) Chapter 55 of title 10, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 1074e (as added by section 764) the following new section:

Sec. 1074f. Medical tracking system for members deployed overseas

(a) System Required.–The Secretary of Defense shall establish a system to assess the medical condition of members of the armed forces (including members of the reserve components) who are deployed outside the United States or its territories or possessions as part of a contingency operation (including a humanitarian operation, peacekeeping operation, or similar operation) or combat operation.

(b) Elements of System.–The system described in subsection (a) shall include the use of predeployment medical examinations and postdeployment medical examinations (including an assessment of mental health and the drawing of blood samples) to accurately record the medical condition of members before their deployment and any changes in their medical condition during the course of their deployment. The postdeployment examination shall be conducted when the member is redeployed or otherwise leaves an area in which the system is in operation (or as soon as possible thereafter).

(c) Recordkeeping.–The results of all medical examinations conducted under the system, records of all health care services (including immunizations) received by members described in subsection (a) in anticipation of their deployment or during the course of their deployment, and records of events occurring in the deployment area that may affect the health of such members shall be retained and maintained in a centralized location to improve future access to the records.

(d) Quality Assurance.–The Secretary of Defense shall establish a quality assurance program to evaluate the success of the system in ensuring that members described in subsection (a) receive predeployment medical examinations and postdeployment medical examinations and that the recordkeeping requirements with respect to the system are met.”.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Where is all the research that would benefit Veterans from this collection of records containing pre, and post, exposure Blood samples, Mental Health assessments and medical exams. Image just how much this info could help Veterans fighting to stay alive or fighting a claim.

Why are all other Veteran’s records so freely given and sold by the VA yet these records which could be of immeasurable importance to us locked away and unused at some unknown centralized location?

91Veteran
91Veteran

Thanks for digging that up Seymore. Its jogging a lot of memories.

Again, if I am remembering correctly, at some point after this law was passed, or maybe its in this same law, there was a mandate for DOD and VA to create a seamless record sharing process. Its possible VA and DOD saw this law as an opportunity to ask congress for the billions used to create this record sharing.

Ben has written about the billions spent by VA and DOD and what a disaster that has turned out to be.

I also recall news about the new military ID card, possibly called the CAC card. The news reported that the new card would provide lots of digital information on the military member including their medical record, so when they went to a new station or deployed, they would carry that information with them. Now, that actually may be the case, but I wonder if the VA would have the capability to read the information off that card. I do know the VA employee ID is a PIV card which is similar, but I wonder if they were smart enough to implement the ability to read a CAC card.

It would be helpful if a recent Iraq or Afghanistan vet could comment on those IDs.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

VA’s Genomic Database is worth Trillions of dollars per future revenues, based on the potential totality of genome information, that can and will be used to establish new or breakthrough medical advances to save lives.

The VA knows very well that their Veteran Genome Database will catch the eyes of many companies, that’re looking for such large databases that the VA has in their possession. In my mind, there’re many companies that will be interested in the VA’s database.

And, I bet that the VA hasn’t been completely up front and open, pertaining to how many requests that the VA has received, from For-Profit Identities of the health field. Or, how aggressive that the VA is marketing their database to potential clients (for $$$). We only know what is leaked out, or only what the VA wants us to know.

If used properly, the collected data can be of benefit to possibly find other direct ways in treating patients ailments and diseases. The VA knows that it holds in its hands not only powerful information, but the potential for a massive future influx of monies that’s on the horizon, and at the same time, propping up the future value of their database.

I have one critical deciding issue that pertains to the VA’s Genome Database; “I don’t trust the VA, and there’s been no discussions on how the marketed database is going to directly effect the lives of Veterans, first. PERIOD. No if and or buts. Veterans first. The VA has long ago, forgot why the Agency of the Veterans Administration was created in the place.

Trust is the issue. And with me, there’s only suspicious thoughts when it comes to the VA, because their is no trust. l8r – – – Nutter.

Concerned Veteran
Concerned Veteran

Right on ANutter Vet I like your Comment

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Concerned Veteran – – – I like you comment too, but suspicious of the intent. What’s up with this? Trying to slip on in? Apologize for something? What is it bro? Its a 180 change in behavior. Help me out. Like I said, suspicious, and definitely not fucking interested in playing around with fucking bullshit. Talk to the group. Go back and read your posts. You’ve offended many. IMO. – – – Nutter.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Personally ANutterVet, given concerned Veteran’s track record it seems that it is just to keep tabs on new comments being posted on the tread of your comment.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Roger dat Seymore. Most likely others will follow. Fuck them. – – – Nutter.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Sorry for grammar mistakes, I posted without proof reading. In the 5th paragraph, should read, “in the first place,” and their should be “there” in the last paragraph. Thanks. – – – Nutter.

Warhorse
Warhorse

30 October 2017 is the next meeting of the Research Advisory Committee on Gulf War Illness. This meeting is usually available for the public to listen into by calling a toll free number. Anyone having a spare minute that day should listen in and hear all the bullshit that goes on.
VA and DOD have spent vast quantities of taxpayers dollars into this “research”, which in many cases has determined that in fact troops were exposed to and still suffer effects of nerve gas exposure. That in fact troops have suffered serious injury from living in the oil well fire smoke for weeks and months on end. That in fact the vaccines that forward troops received were experimental, and these troops were injected while under the supervision of armed guards, that these troops were read a statement threatening court martial if they disclosed these injections, and documentation of injections were not put on troops shot records.
Does anyone really think DOD wants the “cat let out of the bag” when it deals with GWI. Fuck no. People have “ legacy’s” to protect. George H.W., Colin Powell, the list is long.
They can research all they want. The men and women who are suffering will NEVER receive justice unless DOD admits it fucked up.
As always, FUCK VA, FUCK AFGE.

91Veteran
91Veteran

True that. I don’t know if you follow the RAC, but you mentioned being able to call in and listen to their meetings.

In my opinion, it used to be a good committee until the VA got involved and fucked it all up with many of the members resigning in protest.

I haven’t followed it much since. If you still follow them, has the VA taken over and ruined it?

Warhorse
Warhorse

The RAC meetings are usually held at VA HQ in DC. Once in awhile they go else where such as San Francisco or Boston. Yeah 91 Veteran, the VA is still heavy handed in the order of the meetings. Also there is always a represenitive on hand from DOD. Once in awhile there is a suspected Christians in Action (CIA) spook there as well. There are also some shield/storm vets there who have swallowed the VA kool-aid and try like hell to get you to register and provide a copy of your comments if you’re so inclined to speak. Basically they’ve become the lapdogs of the VA. Being the asshole that I am, I don’t register, do not provide a copy of my comments, and throw a few bad words into my speech. Also my three battle brothers who I attend the meeting with do as I do.
FUCK VA, FUCK AFGE

namnibor
namnibor

Those that become lapdogs and wholeheartedly consume the VA Kool-Aid become future VSO Upper Mgnt. Piggies and the water continues to swirl in the proverbial American Standard porcelain bowl. We Vets are not even floaters in their pool of shameless collusion, but interestingly, we Veterans are the ticket to the porcelain cookie jar of $$$…. Rant Out. Love, LOVE FALL.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Good for you Warhorse and your buddies. So these meetings have essentially become the same as the Presidential Advisory Committee meetings with Joyce Lashof and her panel of liars.

I think I know exactly who you mean on lapdogs. I see pictures after the meetings as if its some kind of Hollywood Red Carpet procession.

Sad that such a good thing for vets has been ruined by the VA.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

In a mood. Wish I could hit the dance floor while listening to a top Rock-n-Roll song . . .

“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsEeWQyezjI”

Its what I listen to reduce the stress thrown my way from the fucking VA. Oh, I didn’t say it yet, Fuck U VA, Fuck U VVA, Fuck U DoD, and fuck off to the rest of the conniving mother fuckers that read this. You know very well who the fuck you are. – – – Nutter.

namnibor
namnibor

If you are bed-bound and able to move your feet or namely, toes a little bit, you can use your imagination and have the entire party of 10 toes tapping-out your virtual dance floor even if you are all thumbs usually when it comes to dancing. Watch-out for the devious little toes because they tend to prefer punk style slam dancing into inanimate objects. 🙂

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Namnibor – – – Only from you could someone describe exactly what I’m going through. Which means, that either you went through this too, or you seen someone go through the same. Thank you for keeping the dark, a little lighter for those who may get offended too easily (overly sensitive Libturds). As always, your comments are welcomed.

I’m trying to finalize an exit from the VA into the private sector. But first, I need to make sure that the VA’s third party In-Home medical assistance is in effect and in reality taking place. Due to some services that the VA is offering, will not be available in the private sector.

I admitted the other day to my PCP, that I’m off balance due to feeling that my security of health, home, and happiness are in jeopardy. And, I don’t take this serious breach too lightly.

They (VA) tends to forget, that as an ex-military personnel, and that I was taught all through my short time of having a fantastic father, that when you are battling an adversary that likes to street fight, is to then make up the difference anyway that you can in order to win or to have a positive outcome.

And, as a perceived enemy, it was the VA that put the target on themselves, because of their own actions, towards and forcing me to treat my own symptoms, due to the VA not directly treating me with a known medication that has been documented to give me relief. We’re going around circles, and I refuse to play their damn game.

Nam, when its all said and done, and hopefully completed to a successful outcome, the VA is a frigging monster to deal with. Its so bad that they actually trample upon the whole concept of Evidence / Experienced Based Medicine (EBM). In which I encourage every one to know exactly what EMB means so that Veterans can stay in the loop with their VA health care services.

From my personal experience in receiving VA health care, the VA extremely violates the Veteran’s (patient’s) values and expectations. When I first saw the EBM Graph, this helped me tremendously to understand, in a broad sense, exactly where and how the VA is SUPPOSED to operate, based off the graphical impression and from an idealistic standpoint.

I may have found an valid argument (a loophole), one in which the VA doesn’t want to be published or to have their name attached to the problem. My VA medical care is very tricky. Especially sense there is no measurable trust.

So a couple of weeks ago, I was informed that I’m being transferred to the Chief of Staff. A psychological reset tactic in order to give the VA an upper hand in the matter. IMO.

Oh, and Fuck U VA, VVA, DoD, Fb, and all you other manipulative bitches. Fuck U. – – – Nutter.

namnibor
namnibor

You are quite welcome! Yep, been there, done that, and I know it may seem a bit odd but I always have my living space in a matter that would not be too hard to immediately adapt to being wheelchair bound or even blind. It’s only a matter of time in progression of things so why not make it easier by being an extreme creature of habit?

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

An issue that has lead into a dispute with the VA, is that with all their stashed information, I’ve only had one PCP in the past 6 years that was open. As a Biologist, it frigging wreaks me up when the VA always puts you in the EBM (Evidence Based Medicines’) box.

And, the VA always puts it in the Veterans lap, when things don’t go as they believe that it should. This has been a very big stumbling block, the causation of many disputes, and causing unnecessary stress and negative health.

And your right, I may have to look deeper into my daily personal needs. I just don’t like it when I have a bully on my fucking back. VA fucking pervert. – – – Nutter.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Off Topic- – – Is anyone receiving In-Home VA Medical Services? If so, what type of In-Home VA Assistance are you receiving, and to treat what type of symptom(s). I’ve been dealing with a certain VA dispute, that has NOT been settled or finalized. Thanks for sharing. – – – Nutter.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Benjamin Krause – A “leader of precision medicine,” the boastings of the VA. Hmm . . . I don’t see it. Is there some reference that’s measured that recognizes that the VA specializes in the high performance of medicine? This is what the VA is saying. Scripted words don’t cry. The VA can’t even micromanage my health care.

Shootz, we’re still stuck on an issue that has been in the past, and now this same issue is causing multiple disputes because it was never solved in the first place. Precision medicine? At what VA facility does this occur? Curious minds would like to know.

And then, the VA hasn’t responded to my emails sent to the Patient Advocate. Ben, help me out here. I’m trying to give the VA the benefit of the doubt. Maybe we Veterans should NEVER do this in the first place. What say you? – – – Nutter.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

Should be “lie” instead of “cry.” I’ve got to blow my nose.

TaB
TaB

Those morons at the VA did not and still will not protect the privacy of my records with them; and, so far I haven’t been successful in finding a way to punish them and/or hold them accountable.

So no bleeping way I would volunteer my DNA to them.

‘Nuff said!!!

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@sepp dietrich, and anyone else for that matter; From now on, it will not matter of how I write something, and whether I agree with what I’m writing. I’m going to post pertaining to the weekday articles, and or respond to the hyperlinked stories offered by the dedication of other Veterans participating on this blog, and or post things that bring up possible memories of the past (ok, I’m biased by posting songs from my era), use light and dark humor, but when it comes to any topical content that I post, just because I post does NOT mean that it has my approval. It’ll be like this in the future; I post, you decide what to filter, so you’ll have to just deal with it.

But I can guarantee you this, that in NO WAY is there any deceit in my heart to cause any harm to my Veteran colleagues. And, I’m not aware of any of my intentions, that is geared into promoting any conspiracy bullshit.

And remember, there’re are conspiracy theories out there on many issues. Plus, there are conspiracy theories that most likely contradict another conspiracy theory or believe. So which one would be right? Common sense can sometime be the decision maker at this point. We don’t need to be fucking lectured on something that you believe one should know or beware of. Geez, WTF.

Oh and @sepp dietrch, thank you for you commentary about what I should or shouldn’t know. Its the love from people like you that helps me to solve my fucking issues of my daily life, and with the VA. Right on. Best fucking encouragement that you can muster. Don’t be fooled, my course isn’t deterred by no one. Stay strong, and don’t cave the fuck in. – – – Nutter.

91Veteran
91Veteran

The mtDNA research was started many years ago by Dr. Beatrice Golomb. I met her at a conference in the mid to late 1990’s and she was talking about this then, but she could never get the proper research funding to prove it. She had good data suggesting mitochondrial damage then. The VA and DOD were sucking up any research funding available for studies on stress, or other BS research that never concluded anything, other than more research was needed.

I don’t recall when Dr. Golomb was finally funded, but it was only through the Research Advisory Committee that she was funded…maybe 7-10 years ago for some initial research. The RAC was specifically set up by Congress, but ignored by the VA for years, until they were forced to actually create the committee. The VA ignored it because they knew it meant research funding going to researchers who might be unconnected to VA or DOD.

She is still conducting research, and her latest findings are suggesting that CoQ10 supplements will help mitigate or slow down the damage being done. I also believe her research has been duplicated by others, which is why it is being reported on more than it had with her initial findings.

Why would the VA ignore this? Well, CoQ10 can be bought over the counter, so there is no huge pay-off to Pig Pharma, and some VA hack won’t get rich selling the patent to them.

As far as the genomic data being shared or given away, I cannot believe anyone like Golomb will benefit from it, or veterans. In fact, if this program was such a boon for veterans health, then where are the benefits we should be seeing from it?

Imagine how many veterans could have lived a better life if the VA listened to and funded researchers like Golomb years ago?

Imagine veterans still dying from cancer that went undetected by the VA for too long, without any thought to sending tissue samples to IBM.

91Veteran
91Veteran

I see now why this mtDNA research is being reported on. The VA conducted their own study with Golomb’s research as a starting point. Golomb first reported her findings from her funded research project in 2014. Perhaps if her research was funded years ago or better funded in 2014, veterans could have been helped back then.

“https://www.research.va.gov/currents/1017-Evidence-of-DNA-damage-in-Vets-with-Gulf-War-illness.cfm”

Golomb’s research: “http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0092887”

What’s interesting about the suggested treatment using CoQ10 is that others have found it is supposed to help people taking statins like for lowering cholesterol.

One would think the VA would have been aware of that long ago given the number of vets taking statin drugs.

“https://www.drsinatra.com/what-is-the-best-form-of-coq10-to-take”

Katterkat
Katterkat

I would be Leary about any DANA testing. They are finding out that when someone has their DANA testing done, it’s put in with All Government databases. That means if your DANA is a match for a crime you may get a visit from someone you may not want. It has been proven that DANA can be a match for Babies. 2 or 3 different men can be tested for the father of a baby and 2 of them could be a match. Becareful out there.

Katterkat
Katterkat

I didn’t notice it changed DNA to DANA. Sorry about that. Stupid auto correct.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

S.O.S. (Same Old Shit)

As the Veterans Administration and Congress prep to take one giant leap backwards and restore the SOS, with a twist, that predated the Veterans Choice Program.

The twist is Nurses, Pharmacist and Assistants replacing Doctors.

“House considers major changes to VA health care”
By NIKKI WENTLING | STARS AND STRIPES Published: October 24, 2017
“https://www.stripes.com/news/house-considers-major-changes-to-va-health-care-1.494240”

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

“The plans do away with a rule that allows veterans to seek private sector care when they are forced to wait more than 30 days for an appointment or live more than 40 miles driving distance from a VA facility.”

“With some exceptions, the House bill would require veterans to stay within the VA system unless the VA determines it couldn’t provide them with a health care team.”

Thus, bringing on the Nurses, Pharmacist and Assistants replacing Doctors as primary care physicians.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

What timing just when you think the quality of care at any VA, So called, Health Care Facility couldn’t get any lower. They are turning all quality of service provided at VA Facilities strait into a nose dive to prove they can do even worse.

namnibor
namnibor

The steeper that nosedive, the higher the performance bonus. What’s down is up and up is down at the Haunted VA Asylum and the ingrates are in-control.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Don’t forget telemedicine. If someone isn’t available there will be a clerk setting up a camera for you to be seen by that doctor. 300 miles away.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Still no guarantee you will be seen by a doctor over telemedicine.

Also for those homeless or low income Veterans without internet or cell phone service just go wait at the bus stop for your telemedicine healthcare team with a primary care Nurse, Pharmacist or Assistant to treat you.

“https://www.va.gov/health/NewsFeatures/20120117a.asp”

VA Health Care Soon to be released on video.

Don Karg
Don Karg

10/28/2017

Dear Benjamin Krause,

Smartest thing I heard ever since I heard about the research from a kid’s father who was placed in charge of the research at Luke AF back in the Late 1990s.

The kid was taking guitar lessons from me at the time.

Sincerely,

Don Karg

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Windguy – – – Are you currently being prescribed Soma (Carisoprodol)? I need to know quickly. VA is changing tactics on me. I’m being seen by the Chief of Staph. In you previous post you didn’t mention if you were still being prescribed for muscle spasms, etc. Thanks. – – – Nutter.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Seymore Klearly – – – I’m in a jam, BIG time. VA is now twisting up things and changing their belief of my original condition; it was agreed upon that I wasn’t able to make medical appointments, until I gained more muscle mass, so that I would have enough strength, endurance, and stamina to be able leave my residence for at least a 2 hour time period (office visit, wait for prescriptions at Pharmacy). And, this doesn’t include the time necessary to wash up, shower, get dressed, etc., before going to a scheduled appointment.

I’m sorry about the disagreement in the past, but I sure could use some good news pertaining to the list of Physicians that I shared. I’m asking you because I feel like I’m captive, plus without counsel, the only other team member that I have by my side is my wife.

I’m currently in the process of weaning off some of the VA services, and at the same time, my ex-PCP is transferring me over to the Chief of Staph. Plus, the VA has me speaking with 3 VA specialists and coordinators. That means I’ll be dealing with 4 new VA employees.

I can’t share the premises for the arguments that I have against the VA (secure my identity), but I can assure you that there are multiple issues of dispute that are unsettled, unsolved, and many agreed promises were violated. And, all the disputes have had a direct negative impact on my health, life, and happiness. I believe that you have enough information to know where I’m coming from.

Seymore, I never thought that it would get to this point, but I can tell you without a doubt, that the VA is stacking the deck against me by having a multitude of specialists to attend to my Behavioral Health and Psyche needs, and managing my medication with a new Clinical Pharmacologist. And, at the same time telling me that I’m not in compliance because I can’t get to an outside appointment.

I’ve noticed that since the extra VA Staph have jumped on board to supposedly help me, that they keep on asking me to make an appointment, and yet they know that I can’t get out, and be able to endure the 2 plus hour time period without taking additional Oxycodone, and not being safe from being in jeopardy of a fall. It was agreed upon that I need to gain more strength, therefore have Physical Therapy. Plus, the Physical Therapy has been approved.

And now, with the Chief of Staph coming on board, who knows what direction my health is going to go. I can’t do this alone. So I’d appreciate it if you can help me to obtain the medical background information on them. And if you can’t, then I’ll have no choice but to continue in what I’m already doing.

I don’t know who to turn too, or what to do at this time. I put the VA on notice, that their vexing treatment of me, has caused my symptoms to become worse. And, that they’ve destroyed my trust in them (documented). Plus, the VA has been notified that I see them as a threat to my life.

Seymore, I have no fear of these incompetent ass wipes. I’ve never felt this way before, and never have been so determined in my life to stand up and confront them. The VA is worse than any bully that I’ve encountered. No more.

They’ve screwed up my life to a point where I have no other option but to stand firm and go into an offensive guerilla mode. Your assistance can really help me to plow through their bullshit. And, they keep asking me what I’m going to do. I told them, like with me, you’ll know it when you hear or see it.

You know how it is when dealing with the VA. “It’s one Veteran at a time.” Thanks. – – – Nutter.