Those veterans considering marriage but on the fence may want to consider a new scientific study saying veterans in relationships have a higher suicide risk.

Being married carried higher odds of suicide risk than being single. And having negative attitudes toward religion also carried higher odds than those who profess positive attitudes toward religion.

VA and the University of Connecticut recently published the results of their study on suicide related to numerous suicide risk factors of 772 Iraq and Afghanistan veterans. The risk factors include age, income, marital status, and religious beliefs. Researchers concluded being married significantly increased suicide risk.

“It certainly makes sense when you think about it,” said Crystal Park, a psychology professor at the University of Connecticut and one of the co-authors of the study. “There are added pressures that come with maintaining a relationship and meeting household needs. People may have expectations when they’re away, and when they return it’s not what they imagined, the romance may not be there. It’s just the daily grind and that can drive up stress levels and increase feelings of despair.”

RELATED: Report Shows VA Not Keeping Employees Safe Enough

Veteran Suicide Risk Specifics

We already know the agency claimed 20 veterans committed suicide every day, in 2014. Veterans commit suicide much more frequently than civilians, and women veterans have an even higher suicide risk than their civilian counterparts.

Here are the new suicide risk details:

  • Confirmation women higher risk of suicide
  • Vets 40-50 year old higher rates of suicidal thoughts than in their 20s
  • Negative attitudes toward religion also linked to higher risk of suicide

It also evaluated 50-year-old veterans with low income and high depression and found 41 percent of married males struggle with suicidal thoughts or already attempted suicide. That compares with 27 percent of single vets with the same profile.

RELATED: VA Refuses Care To Veteran It Falsely Diagnosed As Cocaine Addict

Meanwhile, 45 percent of married women with the same factors, 50-year-old with low income and high depression, also have suicidal thoughts or attempted suicide. Single women have a 22 percent risk of the same.

These studies were wrapping when VA Secretary David Shulkin recently announced the agency will put more focus on providing services to veterans within the first year of exiting military service.

RELATED: New Law To Force VA To Report Bad Doctors

For decades, VA and DOD have repeatedly been reminded how it was failing to provide adequate services focused on reintegration following military separations. Nothing has apparently closed the gap, or at least the duo has not taken appropriate steps to address military separation in an effective and beneficial manner sufficient to address suicide risk.

Do you think the agencies will finally get their act together or will this “focus” merely direct more taxpayer monies to government contractor cronies of agency executives?

Source: https://www.stripes.com/news/study-married-veterans-face-greater-risk-of-suicide-1.508369

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Don Karg
Don Karg

01/24/2018

Dear Benjamin Krause,

Mr. Krause asked, “Do you think the agencies will finally get their act together or will this “focus” merely direct more taxpayer monies to government contractor cronies of agency executives?”

First, One must ask, Do the agencies care about the Veterans?

The data say no, they do not care about the Veterans.

Second, Will the Agencies get their act together?

After nearly four years of conversations, forums, meetings, Senate Hearings, and Millions/Billions of dollars from the Taxpayers—we have not lifted off yet to any great areas of corrective actions.

Third, Will the cronies be there with their hands out—you bet!

And everyone on Capitol Hill will be smiling.

Fighting for what? Coming home to what? Listening to the fools on the hill–for what?—-Who gives a damn if your single or married/ religious or an atheist—after fighting for you country and finding out the real bastards were not on the battlefield—-that gives a lot of people something to think about!

Sincerely,

Don Karg

Donald Avant
Donald Avant

Wonder if anyone will do a study to find out if the stress and frustration of dealing with the morass if corruption and ineptitude that is the VA adds to suicide risk?

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Donald,

So you are wondering if anyone will do a study to find out how many Veterans commit suicide caused by the Post Traumatic Stress, the VA puts us through when we have any dealings with the VA.

The VA is certainly known for its ability to put the Post Traumatic Stress into the Syndrome.

NiteWish
NiteWish

donate your brains
“https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=4000”
the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) announced a collaboration between its National Center for PTSD and the nonprofit organization PINK Concussions, encouraging women to donate their brains for the purpose of research of the effects of traumatic brain injury (TBI) and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

“In the past, the focus of TBI and PTSD brain research has primarily been based on male brains — without any active recruitment for women,” said Dr. Carolyn Clancy, executive in charge of VA’s Veterans Health Administration. “We have a lot to learn about how the female brain deals with TBI and PTSD, which makes this effort long overdue.”

Katherine Snedaker, founder and executive director of PINK Concussions, and a brain injury survivor, also applauded the collaboration.

“We are so grateful to partner with VA to launch the first active recruitment of female Veterans, as well as active-duty members and civilian women to be a part of brain injury and PTSD research,” Snedaker said. “VA continues year after year to be one of our most valued partners in our ongoing mission to improve pre-injury education and post-injury care for women with brain injury.”

While there is postmortem brain tissue available for study of injury in men, there has been almost none for women. There is also a lack of research on Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, also known as CTE, in women. In all published literature on CTE, only two peer-reviewed journal articles (both published in the early 1990s) have focused on women.

Women Veterans interested in participating in the brain bank may take the PINK Concussions pledge. Though tissue donation may occur many years or decades from now, enrollment will allow researchers to learn as much as possible about the health of an enrolled female participant and how things may change over the years.

T
T

The VA, and some others, have the perfect set-up. If such lab rat studies were done we’d never see the results. It would be top secret so the masters, or war mongers, sciences for human studies of the world, or nation, can have a good laugh over us pawns.

I asked journalist about reporting on suicides in or out of the VA and what drove them to it. News people stated they would never do such a thing due to patient privacy, the need to know thing, or not to harm or shame family members, etc. So the majority of suicides like most other things we need to learn of, should know about, will never be made for “public consumption.” Just like people getting killed or something the next block over or in the other side of town. Unless we personally know of such things or affected in some manner, others will never hear about some news or events happening locally. And if we try to spread some news or make it known.. we are the enemy. That is what our censors and tyrants want, total silence, no truth, just propaganda and what they claim “you need to know.”

T
T

Klearly, The past several last years at the VA, plus the crap on the civilian side of things, all things considered, and all the cover-ups, corruption, activist, sure has changed my world to the end of my time dealing with humans on this planet. Especially when having the least bit of trust is totally gone in those “professionals,” “agents,” new or old, who are supposed to help us or treat our ills.

High alert status, no booger man paranoia. The VA did it’s intentional damages, no going back to some ‘normal’ way of life or living. No finding that ‘sweet spot” in life now. Not going to off myself either which obviously is just what they and many others would love to see happen. I am going to stick around to just piss my enemies, and the VA scum, off.

Don Karg
Don Karg

01/25/2018

From: Don Karg Reply to T

That’s the damn attitude!!!

It pays off in the long run.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

T,

What you are describing is a state of being woke! As in no longer being in a sleeper state.

Dennis
Dennis

When I was allowed to attend suicide prevention groups (never missed one meeting in 7 months and got a letter commending me for it, then CBOC issued a PRF and I was banned from local suicide prevention groups so was banned from my bros and little sister – the only folks in years who hugged me on sight lolz) , one thing was absolutely clear to all of us and we talked about it.

Almost everyone there had severe PTSD and all were diagnosed with suicidal ideation. The one guy who was not PTSD but severe depression was married and attributed his strength in choosing life partly to his spouse.

Every single other vet there had almost mirror stories that differed from that guy, males and females. Some were combat vets, some were MST (military rape) patients, and some had suffered extreme circumstances but non-combat related.

EVERY single one of us found that EVERY single time we tried to interact on a social level, except in that group, that it always blows up. For the ones just awarded compensation they find relatives knocking at their door looking for cash. The ones already married were quickly finding a way out. Folks without PTSD simply do not mingle well with those that do and in a marriage this is an understatement. The suicide prevention coordinator tried to work around the ban they put on me attending group by setting up a speaker phone in the “clubhouse” (they gave us crayons to draw with lolz and it was pretty fun actually. Imagine a group of suicidal vets laughing and joking about their crayon drawings!) and then he let me call in to my friends in that group and participate one last time by phone. VA found out and stopped it but it is not the same by speaker phone – no hugs, or drawings, or friends to,shake hands with. Real bastards to do that.

My point is that there was nobody in that group who could tolerate any sort of relationship. The anger begins to well up and this is triggered in a PTSD patient when the bloodstream becomes flooded with adrenalin and other things to prepare the body for fight or flight. When thusly angered it take a bare minimum of 15 minutes for those hormones and adrenalin to re-absorb into the body. What happens is a small spat will trigger the release of this stuff into the blood.

Therapy tells us this and for me the solution (as most people who want to heal) is to immediately remove yourself from the room, house, and if possible take a long walk. It gives the body time to correct the imbalance and the old way of saying this is time to cool off.

This is precisely where the problem happens. A spouse will simply become more insistant that you stay and “talk it out”. Even if told the reaction is a result of a FLOOD of hormones a spouse will not truly understand. With good intentions and a widespread but seriously flawed social custom of “lets talk this out” a spouse will attempt to either continue communication during time or later attempt to shame you for not wanting to talk. It is a viscious cycle and it is the reason we live alone if we want to survive.

A really good group does help but I would suggest also that avoiding these groups and living alone might be better. It was a crushing blow to me to lose those close companions at the whim of the DBC. So I never suggest going to a VA group to anyone because if you get kicked out you will never feel lonlier. This must be too whatbit is like to love a person in marriage but get “kicked out” by divorce or something like that. The only solution is to plan a way to live your life by yourself. This article confirms what we in group often talked about.

About religion….the only religion that came up was when a new guy entered the group for the first time. When it came his turn to speak he began immediately talking about how God was going to destroy the gay people of the world and that if we got rid of them all we would be better and such. He went on for some time. Several in that room claimed to be homosexual and some had been raped repeatedly in the military. I dont take the moron to be representative of other vets who believe but I would caution too about seeking out religion as a relief. I believe suicide is a spiritual disease but am very sure that some “religions” could very easily spin things badly for the wrong person too.

The best advice is to stay away from becoming attached to anyone – even groups – because it does crater and when it does the lonliness is amplified ten fold. I wanted to die when I couldn’t go back and ended up in the local mental health hospital full of morphine, hydrocodone, and a forearm sliced from bottom to top. Asking my friend to care for my dogs a few days tipped her off and they found me but this would not be the case for most.

By learning to live “apart from” but “within” society a man or woman can find happiness and not risk this kind of anguish. This runs counter to our culture but in fact a small sect of Taoism which I latched onto for wisdom teaches this very thing precisely – become a hermit within society is the basic idea and in fact I find peace walking alone beside the river here. It has been practiced as a religion in the far east for a long time and I think this is the therapy that works best and should be taught as an option. VA will formally try to teach you bullshit “behavioral modification therapy”! This means they are trying to teach you to engage cognitive reasoning when your blood is saturated with adrenalin!!! IT DON’T WORK and the gruesome numbers prove it.

Ben did a service with this article about staying away from relationships. The article studied religion as a positive factor and I beliefe that is true as well but ONLY if those seed existed in the body before the diseae of PTSD took hold. Attempting to inject religion into a sick mind not prepped for our cultures religions is probably a horrible idea. The one idea that makes sense especially without treatment is just to stay away from people. I have not set foot in a grocery store for example since my group and therapy was terminated. I get everything delivered. In a grocery store I get triggered to anger and frustration far too easily so I avoid it. Maybe if I am starte back on the stabilizing drugs I will change my mind but I doubt it.

Dan F
Dan F

All excellent points. As you and others who have PTSD, I choose to live within but separate from society. It used to bother me. However, I now see how much stress I was experiencing to be in “normal” relationships. In fact when my wife of 30 years moved out I felt nothing relief. That was 14 years ago and I must say, I am a calmer person.

As to religion, I am not a religious person. I do consider myself spiritual. But, I don’t want to listen to people who think they are better than me or someone else, because they are “religious”, preach to me. That, as you say, gets the hormones flowing.

I can appreciate the grocery store story. I just came back from there and was talking myself down for the entire 25 minute ride home. I wish we had home delivery here. I do 99% of my non-grocery shopping on line.

I think there should be a guide on how to happily survive with PTSD with the points you made as a great jumping off place.

Don Karg
Don Karg

01/25/2018

Dear Dennis,

I agree with 91 Veteran, Well done!

I also want to thank Benjamin Krause for changing the format so we can read your entire message without digging for it—Thank You.

It is tough talking about your trauma to people who have no ideal what you are talking about. Just the other day I ran into a high level MD Helicopter executive and we talked for an hour about DCASR, DCIS, DOD, FAA, Hughes, Allied, MD in the past, and the Senior Contract job that was handed to by Cohen in 1989 in Long Beach–that I had to refuse “Turn your Back.”

If I would have done that there would have been no 1998 Cox Report.

But who can talk about it???

Sincerely,

Don Karg

91Veteran
91Veteran

Dennis, this is hands down the best description I have ever read on this subject. Even regarding points about what happens when married. I agree on some of your points, particularly the stupid idea that PTSD can simply be treated with behavior modification. That may help for some, but I believe that only helps with minor cases if PTSD.

I hear “behavior modification”, and what I perceive is that I am too rough around the edges, too unsophisticated, possibly stupid, unrefined and just plain old uncultured to handle being in polite society. I hear if I just hold my pinky up while drinking my coffee, any other PTSD symptoms will magically resolve. Fuck that nonsense and fuck those nitwits that push it as a treatment.

As for religion, I don’t know if you are misinterpreting the study results or if I am. I read your comment as saying the study suggests vets should get religion to help with PTSD.

Without reading the study results, I took Ben’s column to suggest religious beliefs were found to be a factor, but there was nothing I read that said why it was a factor, and whether it increased or decreased suicide.

My own belief regarding religion is that my religion is my own belief, and I don’t care to hear anything else on what someone thinks of what my belief should or should not be. I don’t care to hear I should believe in X, should worship a tree daily or that any of my beliefs are wrong. Bottom line, what ever religious beliefs I have are mine alone, so leave me alone.

That belief comes from something I heard years ago in Basic training from another trainee.

“You don’t talk about my religion and I won’t talk bad about yours”.

Very good comment Dennis. It’s truly sad the VA for all their bragging about how good they are at treating PTSD will never learn from it…and keep pushing behavior modification.

CorpsmanUp!
CorpsmanUp!

The VA is wasting money period!
Religious ideations during the course of treatment for depression is not a good mix.
I have worked in locked facilities before where some of the social workers were the govenors of Toon Town USA, asserting GOD in their program.
Not a good mix at all, especially when you have all these Pick Pocket Prophets, benefitting immensely from their parishioners.
And the most egregious of it all, is all of the pastors that have caught squeezing Titties in the Tabernacle.
Yep, the government contractors are the Pick Pocket Prophets of VA, cashing in on the emotion of the lowly VA way and AFGE.
It is disgusting to know that there is a full calendar of these squirrelly squid belly fuck rolls meeting, and plotting with useless made up data that has no basis on the entire veteran population .

TaB
TaB

Well, I believe suicide for people who do not believe in a God (or higher power) is higher because most religions condemn suicide as something that is not forgiven – resulting in eternal damnation.

Next, people get support when they are part of a “community”. Yes, there is comradere in the military, but the church seems to have a stronger way of pulling people together.

Lastly, humans need some sense of “hope” to motivate them. For some it may be a lucky rabbits’ foot, for others, the belief in a higher power is probably the only thing (besides a job, spouse, family) that keeps them going…

Oh and, actually lastly, religion imposes rules that when you look at it, are to keep people out of trouble (i.e. no stealing). If someone truly adopts religion in their lives, they have less drama cuz they will stay away from drugs, promiscuity – all vices our fellow veterans indulge in to cope with the stress of military life.

I grew up in a country where religion and civics was mandatory in “public” schools (there goes separation of church and state), and I didn’t appreciate that cuz no one has the right to impose certain things on people. But at the same time, now that I’m older and wiser, I see the need.

Look, there’s a fine line to be drawn here…cuz, our military need a support system from day one – not some silly post deployment briefing and/or seeing a counselor post-service. But yes, I see where you get all these flunky alleged “nonprofits” (like piggy VSOs) and government involved (look at how great they run the VA) and yes, it can get ugly.

T
T

My worthless thoughts on the subject that is flashing in my gourd:

1.) There is nothing much to trust about so-called professionals or fancy ABCs by some over-educated idiot claiming to have all the answers and can help people. They just use their bible the DSMs and Freud to throw shit on the wall and see if it sticks. Then start the pill pushing or behavior modification to suit their purpose or expectations thinking it’s all a blanket cure-all. To play lab rats. Or to play psych warfare on us to see what happens. Like using women and kids for militant activism and to brain-wash cause they, more than likely, are more easy to control/susceptible, fall for emotional tactics, and socially engineer. Pure facts.

2.) In my well over twenty something years of volunteer work and helping run a sober club I have met countless people and about seen it all. I have met more ‘experts’ or those in the mental health fields, including child psychs, that I would not trust my dog with. While behind the scenes have a sicker life style or a more disturbing, chaotic, issue filled, multi-personality living, home life than those they are treating. We are to jump in their world, or their veiw of culture, acceptable society, in their eyes, and play the college games or whatever to fit in, believe, to what to tolerate, Plus most think like the VA, or government, that they can predict veterans futures or use some algorithm or some crap so some counselor can say “you are all criminals or will be.” “We must protect you from yourself ” Then tell you to hit the streets for pain meds i.e., heroin and crack or go back to drinking. Some of that fine VA training it is. Not to forget the fact that most of those highly educated folks don’t give a shit about us or if we do die. They can predict what we think, may do, or act. Ha.

3.) They cut pain meds not so much for addictions to the pill but the addiction to lessening the pain we may have and able to somewhat control. Collective Punishments. Like today it’s all about pain meds, less about illegal street dope, why? Some really addicted have, those who never failed a drug screen, can’t get. While some vets remain unaffected and have their meds, others picked out of a hat do not. Not all people get addicted but they sure do make it seem so. And anyone, family, is dealing with some addiction be it Coca Cola, booze, Mountain Dew, to pain meds, to psych dope, will make it seem that the entire world is addicted to whatever. But it’s okay to be addicted to lies, disinformation, sports, soaps, shopping, non-nonsensical activism, celebrity obsessing, Hollyweird, or Dr. Phil. But ol’ Dr Phil will tell you to keep watching his show after telling people to stop watching TV so much, using high tech crap, and believing what they see on TV and that it is a major destroyer in American society today. Okay Phil.

4.) There is no way to account for much. Official narratives or statistics suck and mislead. Twenty or more years ago border watchers estimated churches and others helped at least “fifty million” illegals into the country. Today all we hear about is a possible 8 to 12 or so milion. What a drop in numbers to mislead the sheep. Same thing with head counts for vets about anything.

They cannot tell me some gunnery sergeant’s wife on TV says her husband died of accidental oipod pain pill over-dose cause he didn’t understand the instructions on the label and thought a whole bottle wouldn’t harm or kill him. BS. Time and time again I have seen that stuff to be common suicides but to have the insurance pay off they have to be labeled as accidental overdose. So ‘they’ use this crap to their advantage and think everyone will believe it, and most do. Emotions, emotions, emotions. I have seen this more times than I can count. With or without a suicide note it’s the same. Or without a last note in life, the wife mourns then rakes in the cash and pity trips with full knowledge of what was going to happen. Veterans who do this want their family provided for and what family member would openly discuss the truth behind it all? Not one I know of. And not many will discuss this or dare mention it in their diatribe or stats.

Many many times I’ve sat across the table and talked to vets and others about their plans to end it all. And they did eventually either a day or two later or a year or so. Hunting accidents, ‘accidentally while intoxicated stepping in front of a Mack truck on the highway, sitting on train tracks, eating lead, high speed collisions, on the job ‘accidents,’ whatever, it was done. Whether or not the family was aware of this stuff. I do know a lot of family were fully aware of the upcoming events and had their stories down pat to share with all if need be, and try to be prepared for what was to come. But it wasn’t my place, my avocation, agenda, to help play executioner back then, or play rat, informer, helper, judge, or advisor on how to end their misery like that. Some of my best friends did the above actions to not taking aciton to save their lives through some medical procedure, but chose death instead…”natural causes.” Insurance pays.

It’s like the counts of criminals or kids doing wrong then blaming the Devil made them do it, or the drugs or want of drugs made them do it. Every street kid, gang, to career criminal out there knows they can get a reduced sentence, or off easier, going through some drug court if they merely mention being addicted, or to put the blame of their behavior/crime or propensity to do harm to others on dope or the want of. Then it’s easy to run off, get drunk, get some dope, smoke a joint, to have something in their system to play the game. Simple. Is that ever mentioned? Hell no. But the system just wants, awards, glory, prestige, the money from drug courts and monitoring, to appease special interest groups, the moms, and allows for the game to be a mainstream thing to do, or easier way out.

I can’t count the times I went on what is called 12 Step calls to pick somebody up who after committing some illegal act, went out, got liquored up or doped up, then wanted to go turn themselves in to the law or be taken to be admitted to a psych unit for care to avoid arrest or delay it. And have it all on record for the courts to see with some chemical compound in their system. With a multitude of them NOT having any real addiction issues but can play the game well, and the pros back them up while making their money, and playing the game of ‘progress’ or doing some indispensable good for the world of psychiatry and addictions. Besides, those who knew me well admitted that playing the game of blaming drugs or booze was their defense and full intentions, with the help of friends and family helping them with the process too. Family members, friends of cops, judges, mafia family members, the elite, included in all this too if they weren’t just let go or got a slap on the wrist.

Then there were those who doped up, did their intentional crime, and attempted suicide and made sure they would get medical care quick enough to prevent dying. Or bloody enough to take to the emergency room. But would would be a whopper to help get them out of trouble in the same manner, same excuses, plus getting multiple diagnosis to make it look even better, laughing all the way through the judicial mainstream accepted systems. Or so they can easily get a monthly check for being good actors. Point being statistics, claims, official narratives, studies, polls, don’t mean crap to me. I’ve been on the inside looking out, the outside looking in, and around the tea cup of life far enough to have found the friggin’ handle. I ain’t falling for any of their BS. They don’t know crap from Shinola.

Dennis
Dennis

@T
My heart understands why morphine and hydrocodone are needed. I am at odds often with fellow vets about whether VA should be even handling morphine or not but maybe an explanation is in order;

I was on low doses of methadone for a long time. About twenty times lighter than a dose would be for heroin addicts. A non VA doc prescribed it. Then I entered VA healthcare. I talked about it and the VA doc Rx it to me.
The VA pharmacists later asked if I had ever used morphine instead. I hadn’t and agreed to do it, but only on the phone. I got banned from CBOC by a bogus PRF just days later. So here is what went down for me:

The pharmacist entered into my record a required pain contract between myself and a VA doctor that I never met. As of this post I still have never met this doctor. I was banned from just that building, the CBOC, but no other structure, campus or any other building that VA owns. I was deemed Cat One violent at one building only and it was the building where the sheriff served a Restraining Order against that buildings manager with me as protected. The manager was out of control.

This is when I became dependent upon morphine and hydrocodone. I was banned from the building and could not see the doctor. I sent a secure message and asked, is it safe for this increasing morphine dosage? The doc I never met had increased my morphine from 90 mg/day to 180 mg/day. Hydrocodone was added as a PRN at 40 mg/day. The new pain contract was entered in the building I was banned from by the pharmacists for this dosage. In the addendum she put “patient not present to sign”. The response back from her nurse whom I also never met was, “You do dont have permission to contact us.” A day later the drop down menu left out an option to contact the doc.

About a thousand doses and many months later as my life fell apart and my craving grew she suddenly stopped sending the morphine. I was in overnight withdrawls in pretty short order. So my VA shrink, located in a different VA building so therefor I was not banned from it, began prescribing those same dosages of morphine and hydrocodone but from a paper pad and not through the mail – I has to go get them. After five months he became antsy and told the COS he was not gonna precribe it anymore.

By now you must be thinking I am making this shit up. It gets better.

The press had begun making multiple inquiries into the highly unusual nature of labelling a vet Cat One violent at a single location only. The Chief of Staff called me at home and said he would “help me out” and expected that we could work things out and get me back into CBOC. Here is how he helped me: He order yet another doctor that I had not met to Rx morphine to me. The doctor entered into my record that he had been asked to do this but that it was innapropriate for him to “…Rx a mental health patient morphine that I have never met.” The COS overrode his objection apparently because the morphine again began to flow but from this new doctor who openly objected to it in my medical record.

I decided I had no life anymore so long as I kept popping morphine. So I faxed the clinic doctor and said simply, “I have decided to cease all opiate and opiods. I crave them and if you send them I cannot stop but take them. Please discontinue.” It was sent with the proper id number. More morphine came. I resent the fax. More morphine came. I sent a Civil Rights Complaint. The morphine stopped. I was banned again from CBOC.

23 interviews later and the newspaper printed all this up more or less and today I await reinstatment as a patient… Year have past.

To date I have only met in person just one of the four involved with providing life shortening doses of opiate and he was a psychiatrist writing off of a paper VA prescription tablet.

This is why in high detail I see VA as the worst posssible candidate to be allowed to dispense morphine. My opinions do not represent a misunderstanding of how bad a person can hurt.

T
T

Nope, I don’t think you’re making anything up. Truth is stranger than fiction. After the insanity, the words used, the threats, demands (“orders”) put on us from the VA, the nonsense told to us at the VA that the majority of people I encounter find it hard to believe, and not one MD I talked to so far cares to discuss those issues or get involved in the smallest conversation about it. Like my jaw being broken by the idiots the dental people didn’t want to x-ray or seem to discuss much. But made it clear this would not be in files, they didn’t want involved in anything even if it wasn’t for legal purposes. But covered-up for the VA. Just like the oral surgeon did and also played the phony medical files game and gave me a phony piece of paper that was not what I seen in office. The scum bags.

After some of the stuff i have seen, others go through, in the VA or not, might seem totally insane and hard to believe but is pure fact. I mean really out there and hard to believe, but pure reality. And I think why the VA staff, the activist, scum, can speak and act like it does because rational thinking, reasonable, decent, honorable people outside of the VA, or unaffected veterans can’t understand some certain mind-sets or actions, especially from so-called professionals.

It is like me trying to fully understand, comprehend, appreciate, the mind or thinking of Jeffery Dahmer or some psycho serial killer out there, or some damned pedophile or baby raper…….. I can’t begin to. And yes, I am putting the VA scum, media, politicians, all those avoiding our issues on the same level as the evil freaks I mentioned. All I can say to people is… walk a mile in my, or some other’s shoes, and research some things and talk to real people, not the actors or activist.

I don’t put out-right murder, torture, nothing, past those at the VA or anyone else who may cover for them or believe some phony report instead of listening to us and others with the same issues. Pure evil sick times we live in.

Dennis
Dennis

@T,
My last friend that suicided was also savy to insurance. The VA had botched a procedure horrible and he lost both legs. He did get a huge settlement but it vapprized and he was iving in section 8 housing when we met. Without legs he needed dialysis for his kidneys.

He laid his trip on me I guess because he was a mean motherfucker and wanted somebody to know and figured it didn’t matter to,lay it down on me. Odd that I make friends with bastards but his plan worked. He took out a $30,000 life insurance for the woman who helped him in home. He was a gay man but very fond of this girl so he named her on a $30,000 policy. He bragged that refusing dialysis would result in a death that is “natural causes” even when his stated intention was to die. He refused and a while later he dies from it.

VA wont call it suicide of course. The insurance can’t call renal failure suicide, and refusal of a needed medical treatment is also not suicide. His friend got her $30,000 and VA got rid of an expensive vet. You are right my friend – here are countless cases like this and these numbers don’t get added in, do they?

T
T

Nope, Dennis, they don’t. Like with most things in America…it’s all intentional, all for the sake of greed, power plays, prestige, phony claims/stats/studies, awards, facade, some stinking agenda, grade points, monetary grants, articles in professional/academic circles, cover-ups, self-service, more big government/big brother overseers, etc. Not much about facts, reality, or the who, what, where, when, why, and how of anything, and how to investigate fix/improve the issue.

Also, sorry to hear about your friend. Sometimes it can be very very difficult to be a sounding board, a supporting shoulder/ear, or catch-all for some people. Especially those who just got tired of living and said to hell with it all. Then I gotta sit and figure out the balance of life in these situations. Are they better off being out of it all, out of pain, out of this FUBAR nation, and/or the loss I endure from the loss of friends/family leaving huge empty areas in my life that can’t be filled again at my age, condition, and present culture. So I figure in the end, it’s their choice and I have to add their battles/issues to mine so their voice can be heard too, and to clarify some major failings, stats and BS. That is until I croak my last time.

More hype, facade, and stupidity:
“http://www.mywabashvalley.com/news/va-looking-for-local-lease/937317843”

All these idiots are doing is to add more shit to the pile they can’t control or maintain properly now. It will all lead back to the same damn VA hospital full of uncaring filth and activist. More money more money more money. More waste. Blah blah. While the entire state/VA/med boards/politicians/media refuses to investigate the many problems in their hands now. Or should be in their hands. What total BS these people can pull off. It’s freaking endless.

Dang, still can’t see and screwed up the first post. Eye drop time.

CorpsmanUp!
CorpsmanUp!

Talk about data, you need to hit the like and subscribe button on this site!
Your opinions count and should be shared to other forums, so that it is not limited here.
Trust me, if I had a live recorded , unregulated studio, VA would do everything to get my show cancelled.
My strength would be skits ,making fun of the Secretary, OIG, AFGE and a special introductory character “Helen Hognacious”
The model VA Nurse Ratched veterans have to deal with on the Purple McDonalds Grimace Teams. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

From my understanding, almost everyone who commits suicide leaves some kind of “note”! I wonder if notes have been found, and because they contain information blaiming VA’s incompetence, are destroyed? Thereby allowing VA to “fudge the numbers” on WHY the vet decided to end it!?!?

I also believe, VA employees have caused veterans, due to their criminal activities, to take their lives!

I also believe, veterans have committed suicide because they were misdiagnosed and couldn’t find proper medical care!

There’s MORE. Only I believe y’all understand where I’m going on this!
__________________________

Here’s something else y’all might to Google!
From:
“Tipping Point with Liz Wheeler”
Dated: 24 Jan 2018 [02:51 minutes long]
Titled;
“Liz Wheeler: My Message to Bernie Sanders about free healthcare!”

She makes a lot of sense in her argument against government run healthcare! She also mentions the VA quite a few times!

namnibor
namnibor

“[…These studies were wrapping when VA Secretary David Shulkin recently announced the agency will put more focus on providing services to veterans within the first year of exiting military service….]”– That was only the VA wanting to get their early pound of flesh out of fresh Vets, which pumps-up their need for more $$$ and performance bonuses…helping Vets?! (assisted suicide?)

May I suggest the highest risk to any Veteran is VA healthcare. Why? It’s the common denominator of both married and single Veterans, regardless of worshiping large performance bonuses or modern religious denominations.

Funny thing, that word ‘Denomination’…it’s root word is tricky but easy to spot if your dyslexic…’DEMON’, and that’s the VA’s, a Legion of demonic hacks hell-bent on fucking with Vets with worthless “studies” such as this one today.

RAND also will surely release an expensive study on Vets that differentiate between how often a married/single Vet gets shat on by overhead crows flying in circles, regardless of religious affiliation, then commit suicide from being fucked with by those crows, DBC, VA?
It’s the simple law of cause and effect.
Again, common denominator: The VA. Veteran suicide rate would vastly recede in #’s if the VA were not so fucking adversarial. Done!

TaB
TaB

I believe it starts with the day you raise your hand and sign up for military service.

The military is so determined with getting what they can out of soldiers – at the detriment of broken soldiers and their families during/after service.

Remember basic training? It’s all about showing you to shoot, run, etc. What do they teach you about proper diet, coping with battle stress, making wise financial choices, having a support system (because a lot of soldiers marry young and/or get into situations with women who burden, rather than support them)?

They show you nothing. So you injure mentally and physically during service and it’s too late then. You end up in debt, broke, and/or homeless upon separation of service. But they don’t care – hence our fellow veterans having to come out and continue to get f-d over by the VA.

You can’t run a car without proper maintenance…maybe the military should wise up and take a more proactive way of helping our veterans instead of running us like plow horses then sending us to the glue factory (the VA) when we can’t perform anymore.

91Veteran
91Veteran

I’m not surprised they didn’t provide one of the biggest triggers…the VA.

Anyone truly believe an injured, unrated veteran struggling after returning, or struggling to provide for his family after years of denial doesn’t decide to give up on dealing with such a monolithic, uncaring, downright fucking nasty bureaucracy?

Well, if you don’t like the VA you can always go somewhere else? Who wouldn’t be seriously pissed off after being told that?

I think this study was designed to provide cover for not cleaning up a shithole.

If vets were not triggered by their experience at the VA, why would there be several that have committed suicide AT the VA? Why would they choose to go after street drugs like heroin if the VA were so caring?

CorpsmanUp!
CorpsmanUp!

My take on it is that when you walk in a VA and discover the reality of being out of uniform and the appearance of those responsible for your health, you get that
“Now ain’t this some bullshit look” 🤤😲😨😱

91Veteran
91Veteran

Good point CU. I have had that, “WTF did I wear the uniform for just to encounter this fucking circus!”

CorpsmanUp!
CorpsmanUp!

The entitlement attitude, and “the look what we are doing for you” attitudes at the VA is despicable to me.
They put veterans who normally would not even talk about their service or medals in vigilante mode. That is where the doctrine ” Death before Dishonor” should have amnesty, because you literally have some VA employees challenging legit soldiers integrity.
I am from the handshake, to confirm your word generation.

91Veteran
91Veteran

I agree CU. Same here.

TaB
TaB

THANK YOU!!!

Isn’t suicide done because people feel hopeless? When you have the VA doing every thing it can NOT to see you (phantom waiting lists); on top of hiring incompetent doctors with histories of malpractice; on top of just filling you up with pills to make make your mental state worst (opoid epidemic); on top of the VA denying or delaying your benefits…..who in their RIGHT MIND wouldn’t feel helpless and hopeless???

Oh, and more hopelessness? A Congress that just passes laws and no check up to make the VA enforce/apply them…

Big middle finger to the VA!!!

All they can do is pass the buck. This article is an example of passing the buck.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Its easy to see when you look at their findings.

Confirmation women higher risk of suicide
Vets 40-50 year old higher rates of suicidal thoughts than in their 20s
Negative attitudes toward religion also linked to higher risk of suicide

Women vets are a higher risk? I would seriously question this statistic just based on news reporting. I am not diminishing suicide by women vets, but the cynic in me after years of VA experience tells me this is a finding that will garner sympathy…and more money from Congress.
Vets 40-50 years old are at higher risk? I am very curious of their reasons why. I highly doubt any if them include the possibility that this is the case because many have given up after years of dealing with VA bullshit.

Pick a problem you have had with the VA in the last 5 years and remember how infuriating it is/was to correct that problem, and how helpless you might feel in correcting the problem. Years of dealing with bullshit takes its toll.
Negative attitudes about religion? I seriously question why this was even in the study. I can only assume it was in some way meant to be a way to blame the veteran for their own suicide.

91Veteran
91Veteran

What’s interesting is to see several comments that zero in on the problem…the stress the VA puts on a vet.

You can bet if we can easily see it, some supposedly educated researchers saw the same thing. And ignored it. Gotta keep that seat on the gravy train.

Dennis
Dennis

The Society For General Internal Medicine published a study about VA care and I copied and paste here just one bullet point:

“When visiting facilities with longer wait times, veterans aged 70 to 74 were almost 10 percent more likely to have a stroke.”

These researchers DID report it and a bunch of other things. Most VA providers acknowledge that blood pressure readings taken at VA are extraordinarily high compared to general practice. My blood pressure peaks into what my last PCP said was “spooky high”. My non-VA provider said I was lightheaded often from low blood pressure.

Of course they know vets are dying just by being present on site. This is no mystery to the acreditted medical societies at all.

T
T

Good one. Damn. Explains, in part, why locally I have one choice for pain meds but I have to sit in some speed freaks office, not able to get a full sentence out after being questioned, attempts to set me up with MDs I have no need of or already been seen by the VA, the usual crap. On top of those games my first visit was a bit over six hours long. Yep no typo, 6 long miserable hours and having to waddle to the parking lot for a drink of water since food nor eats allowed in the small packed waiting room. That was my last pain med script.

Went back the next month and same thing was happening. I explained to the staff I could not sit in their small chairs, needed to have water or a drink with me most of the time, to why I couldn’t stand for long, or sit in their chairs, etc. “Oh you’ll get right in.” They lied. After two hours I had to leave. Migraine, everything going south. I told them to re-schedule and please do so when I didn’t have to wait 2 to 6 hours to see the MD. They never called back so I guess I am supposed to kiss their ass for pain meds.

Wrote about this before. But I asked other patients who were sitting around knitting, going to the parking lot for eats or picnicking over such long waits and watching walk-ins go straight in. “Does this happen all the time” I asked many of them. All said yes every time they have shown up for appointments it’s the same thing. And they actually put up with it. I can’t.

This was also the same office that had us sign contracts with them and documents that allowed them to sue us for any failures to comply with rules, to understand that MD to MD or MD to VA communications between in office MDs are, or may not be, included in our med files or requested as part of our med files, etc.

Then to think medical boards et al, think this treatment and other professional misconduct to total disrespect is acceptable. Guess they are out to depopulate using us as targets… in or out of the VA.

namnibor
namnibor

These lyrics say what I think about Veteran Suicide by Peter Gabriel called appropriately, “Don’t Give-Up”:

“In this proud land we grew up strong
We were wanted all along
I was taught to fight, taught to win
I never thought I could fail

No fight left or so it seems
I am a man whose dreams have all deserted
I’ve changed my face, I’ve changed my name
But no one wants you when you lose

Don’t give up
’cause you have friends
Don’t give up
You’re not beaten yet
Don’t give up
I know you can make it good

Though I saw it all around
Never thought I could be affected
Thought that wed be the last to go
It is so strange the way things turn

Drove the night toward my home
The place that I was born, on the lakeside
As daylight broke, I saw the earth
The trees had burned down to the ground

Don’t give up
You still have us
Don’t give up
We don’t need much of anything
Don’t give up
Cause somewhere there’s a place
Where we belong

Rest your head
You worry too much
Its going to be alright
When times get rough
You can fall back on us
Don’t give up
Please don’t give up

Got to walk out of here
I can’t take anymore
Going to stand on that bridge
Keep my eyes down below
Whatever may come
And whatever may go
That rivers flowing
That rivers flowing

Moved on to another town
Tried hard to settle down
For every job, so many men
So many men no-one needs

Don’t give up
You still have us
Don’t give up now
Were proud of who you are
Don’t give up
You know its never been easy
Don’t give up
Cause I believe there’s the a place
There’s a place where we belong”– Peter Gabriel

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Peter Gabriel – Don’t Give Up

windguy
windguy

How’s about a little dittie from Tom Lehrer 1963

With no apologies to the Catholic Church and their pedophile and sometimes murdering priests.

First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Do whatever steps you want, if
You have cleared them with the pontiff.
Everybody say his own
Kyrie eleison,
Doin’ the vatican rag.

Get in line in that processional,
Step into that small confessional,
There, the guy who’s got religion’ll
Tell you if your sin’s original.
If it is, try playin’ it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
Two, four, six, eight,
Time to transubstantiate!

So get down upon your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Make a cross on your abdomen,
When in rome do like a roman,
Ave maria,
Gee it’s good to see ya,
Gettin’ ecstatic an’
Sorta dramatic an’
Doin’ the vatican rag!

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

“Rep. Bost calls for changes in Marion VA administration”
By Andrew Feather, WSIL 3 ABC Posted: Jan 24, 2018

“MARION — Congressman Mike Bost is seeking changes in leadership in the Marion VA Medical Center Human Resources Department.

In a letter sent Tuesday to VA Secretary David Shulkin, Bost and another representative outlined concerns they had within the human resources department.

The letter mentions concerns from staff about inconsistencies in pay scales and high employee turnover rates.

In addition, it says an investigation found the Marion VA fails to track employee no-show rates and disciplinary actions.

“The concerns that are there are something that will affect the quality of and morale of the personnel that are there,” Bost said.

He says in order to fix these problems a culture change is needed, something he says, starts at the top.

“Right now the HR director needs to be replaced,” Bost said.

A report released by federal investigators in July claimed the Marion VA is plagued with problems that could have led to veterans dying… including corruption, nepotism, intimidation and poor patient conditions.”

Full Article at: http://www.wsiltv.com/story/37344092/rep-bost-calls-for-changes-in-marion-va-administration

T
T

The Indianapolis Star is taking credits for busting the Nasser MD case over the Olympic female gymnast. But they and others in this lousy corrupt state won’t touch the local medical systems, the corruption, or the VA. Politicians totally silent or part of the problems too, and why the state’s news rags refuse to get involved to report some truth.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Prior Reporting on Rep. Bost request for an investigation into the problems with Management at the Marion VA Medical Center

____________________

“Lawmakers call for investigation at Marion VA”
KFVS 12 CBS — August 2017

“Representative Mike Bost (R-IL) and Jack Bergman (R-MI), the House Veterans’ Affairs Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Chairman, are asking the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs Secretary to investigate allegations of mismanagement at the Marion VA Medical Center.”

Video Accessible at: http://www.kfvs12.com/clip/13544125/lawmakers-call-for-investigation-at-marion-va

91Veteran
91Veteran

Off topic: An interesting story at khn dot org about a Dr. William Halford, and human research he was conducting on a herpes vaccine. Seems he injected some subjects in the Caribbean, and in an Illinois hotel room that was not a part of his normal research.

He had a patent on the vaccine, formed his own company, then got funding from Peter Thiel. Other news reports say it was patently unethical what they were doing.

No news yet on whether he may have been associated with the VA in any way.

The KHN article is interesting in that the medical school he was working at in Illinois, SIU, has quotes from the school essentially saying their committee investigating this will do what is needed to keep federal research funding flowing.

Jo3n
Jo3n

All Dr. Shulkin bas done is go after taxpayers money. Ben, are you positive that there are no bonuses for Veterans who have committed suicide? I was lucky enough to spend a night in building 86. I was amazed that there was only two Veterans on the deck. Amazing stats Ben.

Arnold Cabral
Arnold Cabral

Did you know Veterans President Donald Trump want to rid of Aid and Attendance for Disabled Veterans.

Jo3n
Jo3n

@Dennis, how, or should I ask you questions about the Roseburg VA? I’m being seen there. Who would I ask medical/mental questions to, and how do I reach them? I’m being rushed into an operation I’m not sure the VA is capable of. If you have an answer, I am now reading this every day. Ben can give you my email address. Good luck with your ordeal.

Dennis
Dennis

@Jo3n

No matter what you decide you never alone. You will be fine.

I would like to help but I am in no way the one to ask this question. I simply do not know. I won’t try to guess what would work for you. You either trust VA healthcare based on everything you know or you do not. If you do not trust them then find somebody you do trust. If you have somebody that has demonstrated to you that they care then start there.

Besides you likely have no access to tactical nuclear multiple reentry vehicle nuclear weapons so my suggestions would be moot, right? You will be fine wherever your heart takes you and if you go to VA then go in there knowing that you are not alone. I will be up north and I will be thinking of you which is how I pray. Your question honors me beyond belief and I honor you by telling you the truth which is I am not the one to ask.

When you read my stories understand that they won’t apply to you necessarily. I decided to kick up the huge fuss over this that I did on the belief that the more time Roseburg DBC spent dealing with me then they would have leas time to spend as a DBC on other vets.

To be grandiose, I saw my fellows being attacked by the DBC process and decided in a paperwork way to defend the position of veterans against DBC. I can get very deeply held beliefs when triggered and I came to believe that painting a target on myself for DBC (in a Constitutionally protected manner) meant their resources at DBC would be spent on me and not the younger kids coming through who need so much help and are one DBC flag and a simple trigger pull from death.

I called in the enemy artillery in on my own position so to speak using my words and filing complaints in actual hopes that this would turn the Roseburg DBC attention to me and at the time I decided that I placed no value on my own life so it did not matter anyway. I thought it would spare others to take the hits that I took. Pretty grand right, but not so smart if you wish to avoid pain. Be smart my friend.

Semper Fi

Jo3n
Jo3n

@Dennis, appreciate your response. Coming from Alabama, Roseburg has been good. I did wonder why they put the library locked up on the flight deck. I don’t really believe anyone. Whether your stories come from facts or fictions, they usually, eventually get to the point. Enjoy..

Oldmarine
Oldmarine

CALLER: Is this BEN’S Pizza?

GOOGLE: No sir, it’s Google Pizza.

CALLER: I must have dialed a wrong number. Sorry.

GOOGLE: No sir, Google bought BEN’S Pizza last month.

CALLER: OK. I would like to order a pizza.

GOOGLE: Do you want your usual, sir?

CALLER: My usual? You know me?

GOOGLE:

According to our caller ID data sheet, the last 12 times you called

you ordered an extra-large pizza with three cheeses, sausage,

pepperoni, mushrooms and meatballs on a thick crust.

CALLER: OK! That’s what I want …

GOOGLE:

May I suggest that this time you order a pizza with ricotta, arugula,

sun-dried tomatoes and olives on a whole wheat gluten free thin crust?

CALLER: What? I detest vegetables.

GOOGLE: Your cholesterol is not good, sir.

CALLER: How the heck do you know?

GOOGLE:

Well, we cross-referenced your home phone number with your medical records.

We have the result of your blood tests for the last 7 years.

CALLER:

Okay, but I do not want your rotten vegetable pizza! I already take

medication for my cholesterol.

GOOGLE:

Excuse me sir, but you have not taken your medication regularly.

According to our database, you only purchased a box of 30 cholesterol

tablets once, at Drug RX Network, 4 months ago.

CALLER: I bought more from another drugstore.

GOOGLE: That doesn’t show on your credit card statement.

CALLER: I paid in cash.

GOOGLE: But you did not withdraw enough cash according to your bank

statement.

CALLER: I have other sources of cash.

GOOGLE:

That doesn’t show on your last tax return unless you bought them using

an undeclared income source, which is against the law.

CALLER: WHAT THE HECK?

GOOGLE: I’m sorry, sir, we use such information only with the sole

intention of helping you.

CALLER:

Enough already! I’m sick to death of Google, Facebook, Twitter,

WhatsApp and all the others. I’m going to an island without internet,

cable TV, where there is no cell phone service and no one to watch me or spy on me.

GOOGLE: I understand sir, but you need to renew your passport first.

It expired 6 weeks ago…

James Clement
James Clement

” . . . or will this “focus” merely direct more taxpayer monies to government contractor cronies of agency executives?”

Bingo.