VA Police Body Slamming

Why Are VA Police Body Slamming Elderly Veterans?

Congress is investigating widespread abuse of veterans by some VA police whose acts of abuse include body slamming veterans resulting in death.

Last Tuesday, the House Committee on Veterans Affairs held a hearing exposing new details of body slamming of veterans and other uses of excessive force. Are they watching too much WWE on break? Why are these reports surfacing?

One example was a 65-year-old veteran who tried to leave a VA facility who was blocked by VA police. Rather than deescalating the matter, VA police body slammed the elderly man.

The family of that veteran won a $500,000 settlement from VA after filing a tort claim.

“They pretty much took him, slammed him to the ground, hit his head and he ended up dying,” said Democratic Rep. Gilbert Cisneros, a vocal critic of the VA police.

Another elderly veteran at a VA in Missouri recently died after being slammed to the ground by VA police resulting in his death. There, the veteran was behaving erratically, possibly due to symptoms of stroke.

“I mean really what are they doing over there,” Cisneros asked. “Why are we having these situations where individuals are being injured or hurt or killed?”

Spinal Injury

One veteran was slammed to the ground after a spinal cord surgery.

Rep. Kathleen Rice, D-NY, addressed the confrontation.

“He was literally body slammed onto the ground, with his arms twisted behind his back,” Rice said. “This is someone who was post spinal surgery – he informed them of that, ‘I can’t breathe, I just had spinal surgery.’”

Officers kept the man on the ground and refused to take off his handcuffs. A physical therapist attempted to deescalate the matter by informing the police that the veteran was not a threat, but the police refused to stop.

Fraudulent Allegations

That veteran was later prosecuted federally based on false and fraudulent allegations from a VA clinician about the altercation. That employee apparently illicitly entered the veteran’s medical records and input false information.

What do you think happened to the employee?

Poor Management Blamed

A recent audit of these confrontations revealed poor management and staffing shortages had a lot to do with the confrontations. The agency plans to employ training improvements as well as new security management strategies.

Since 2014, I have covered this topic of improper and aggressive treatment of veterans putting both veterans and other clinicians at risk.


RELATED: Veterans Still Stuck In Communist-style Flagging System


Clearly, the agency has failed to appropriately train its staff related to veteran interactions and de-escalation. The evidence of this poor training are stories like those covered at the hearing, the IG report, and the USA TODAY piece covering the matter.


The pattern and practice of improper veteran treatment do not stop with police, however.

Disruptive Behavior Committee

For years, VA has made use of its Disruptive Behavior Committees that limit some veterans’ access to health care claiming the veterans are disruptive.

RELATED: VA Officials Paint Veterans As Crazed Psychos


The problem with the program has been a longstanding misunderstanding as to what kind of behavior counts as “disruptive” versus merely advocating for one’s rights or disagreeing with a VA clinician.

RELATED: Illegal Complaint Strategy Against Veterans Exposed

Veterans frequently report improper retaliation by clinicians once a disagreement surfaces about the course of care a veteran may object to. Frequently, these veterans report being placed on lists or even being reported to a Disruptive Behavior Committee.

The due process issue with the committees has been the longstanding practice of not allowing the veteran a chance to confront the accuser or even to know about the nature and extent of the allegations prior to rendering a decision.

RELATED: Communist-style Flagging System Exposed

I anticipate problems like this being dealt with appropriately so long as VA takes the time to train its staff and veterans in a more holistic manner.

I remember a few years ago we caught VA banning veterans’ cell phones even though many veterans need their cell phones to keep track of treatments and medications. We exposed it here and were able to reverse the policy.

But, it seems clear VA thinks many veterans are simply crazed psychos who need overt control and body slamming when we really get out of line.

Do you have any experience with VA police you’d like to share? What about the Disruptive Behavior Committee process or flagging?

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  1. I recall a Seinfeld episode were the doctors would write something on a file if the patient did something wrong and that was funny but healthcare in America is becoming third world & evil.

    They know the medical reports can put a roof over someones head or put them out in the street so the doctors/staff are holding all the cards. If a Vet kills themselves I am sure the reports will clean the hands of all involved, one guy told me he is not allowed to get copies of his medical information, I couldn’t believe it.

    Are medical offices that easy to corrupt ? I recall the nurse in Utah getting arrested to not talking a blood sample for a detective when a patient was unconscious. So there are some people that would not allow body slamming or be intimidated by a badge or a gun.

    But when security is the boyfriend of a nurse and related in some way or another as you say, they will cover their ass big time.

  2. I talk to people in New York that are happy but I had nothing but insane issues with Long Beach & West Los Angeles, Sepulveda, Gardena was the worst.
    They have what I call the Indian Mafia, a group of doctors from the same country and if one docent like you, they all seem to know about it.
    Then in Long Beach there is the Philippine Mafia, they are just as bad.
    It is very political, no one is treated the same, different ranks, different wars, different colors, different countries, different ratings %, it is really political.
    Some are treated so kind and others like crap, they can really railroad you in the VA.
    It is scary as hell what they are capable of, it is a federal installation so the laws apply accordingly and good luck making a complaint.

    1. Same stuff here and more. Having all those protective, defensive, symbiotic relationships. If they or the VA used their networking skills to help someone instead of ruining lives or attacking people it would make life better for many. Instead locally we are bombarded by other’s family units and strong family values being number one. It shows well. Doesn’t matter, mafia, Masons, Stars, the cliques, religions, societies, etc. Guess in the big cities there are those gangland connections as well and told to me by an X-medic X-VA employee during my last visits to the VA. With him being totally fearful to even ask a question due to repercussions, threats of the flagging, Disruptive Committee, and stated he just can’t afford to lose his VA care and had to bow to it all while we were being talked to like dogs, below dogs. Plus being afraid to upset the scum-bag Steve giving the orientation, and being nasty from “orders from the top,” giving us “orders” and afraid the law would be called in for simple crap. That and the gang issue popping up.

      My new PCP was from NY. Two clinic PAs seemed to want to brag about instead of the issues at hand. Her being from a prominent medical family up there. Oh how powerful and esteemed they all are. How devoted she is to her patients. How great she and her family is, Pakis. Blah Blah. Then my getting calls later on from the same sounding accents clear from California, and NY. Just like dealing with some other rascals using their networking clans for pure harassment purposes. Their hackers included since they can ruin our social sites like WordPress to Instagram (Brazil -the country, Indy, California, Jamaica, etc.) traced back to foreign groups/connections/family hating on us. With none of the insanity happening until after fun, games, threats from the VA and associated cliques. Then people want to blame us for it all, or say it’s beyond belief. Well some actions of others can be beyond the normal brains thought processes and way beyond insane or called for. But that is the new America.

  3. From my point of view:

    Many hospitals are “Training Hospitals” with some employees willing to abuse their power. I’m not sure what percentage, but a good guess is ten percent. The same percentage with COP’s in general.

    These hospitals have a culture needing patients to comply to their training needs. As soldiers, we are trained to do whatever we are told. Many soldiers/sailors/airmen’s attitude will stay the same as civilians, and by extension, some VA employees expect us to be good soldiers not questioning anything. Sometimes you have employees choosing to label a patient with an (negative) attitude when they fully comply.

    All doctors understand that the patient option of care comes first over the doctors/staff’s convenience or preference. They will likely accept a patients answer. The problem comes when a doctor is in connivance with their staff. A staff member(s) who knows of the doctor’s preference, and who operates on a lower level of ethics. An employee whose willing to use intimidation, manipulation, and/or use lying to get a patient to acquiesce. (Based on, “It’s for your safety”.)

    Labeling somebody with an attitude is a trigger word used to be fully prepared to deal with a potential troublesome, or even violent (I think it’s code green), lowlife.
    Do they really think of the patient as a lowlife? I don’t know, but when I sense something is not right, I would think so. And especially, when you have VA Police body slamming vets who are no physical threat.

    It is only a few that abuse veterans to feel control/power over a veteran. The other team players involved are complicit in order to keep their job.

    1. Acknowledge VA employees who have the courage to expose problems when veterans do not receive proper care. I’m sure they also go through times of increased heart rates and blood pressure fighting for professionalism.

      Search: “Whistleblowers say managers are trying to silence them on veteran care”
      and “VA whistleblower retaliation”

      The latest article being, “The VA is Two-Faced” (6/22/2019)

      1. JC, ask Ben about how well the Whistle blower protections are going or working. I know that locally no-one wants to chance or have their entire lives ruined for protecting a vet, patients, whomever. As censoring and retaliations widen and deepen. That includes their family members being targets too because of the psychopaths, corrupt unions, pros, activists of all kinds running the works.

        It’s also more than a mere few in those training hospitals overseeing the lab rats. I was seeing several clinics and those in each one played the back and forth games. New PCPs played every game in the book. Not abiding by specialty clinics findings or years long practices, she, between the the clinics had me running nuts over the phone and in person just over consults I had for years. Oh yeah she sent them out, go to the clinics, oh no she didn’t not in your file, etc. Go back and hear it all over again time and time again. PAs included with each clinic and main ones over the hospital that had their glamor pics on the walls. Between the CBOC I left to Roudebush that is one hell-u-vah lot of people involved.

        Seen more than one innocent looking vet roughly taken away even in wheel chairs and elec scooters. While sitting in the atrium there for hours I seen nothing about any negatives or actions coming from most I seen when it happened with me present. Go out for a smoke with a couple of them and I seen no dangerous actions from them at all or any reason for a swoop in, grab, and taken away. Seen plenty too that needed taken away or netted too.

        Civilian care not any better either covering for VA damages and continuing on with the health care associations retaliation games or try to ruin lives. Showing we may have zero rights left in this country. One dentist office and staff played the same games, one x-ray prior to the damages from VA, none after. Refused to put the shattered jaw info in my file but did more than one surgery minus a updated X-ray. Then telling me that it was me claiming the jaw was shattered not her. Then what the hell was she doing all the work on me over? Same crap and flat out refusals from a local oral surgeon that took me months and contacting everyone in the state I could think of. Months later the scum sent out one sheet of paper with one small detail for surgery, not what I seen and was shown in-office, showing and informing the jaw break went so far back to the jaw hinge and in the muscles they couldn’t repair it, plus denied X-rays again by them. But both did their share of high dollar surgeries. Know of any that do that minus X-rays and local med boards, et al, think every going is fine and allowable? That is Indiana. Corruption and no end to the covering up games or groups of professionals protecting others. “Professional Courtesies.”

        Seen things enough over the years, tolerated a lot, tried speaking to others during some “burn-out” claims or crap from staff and they were all like the Sgt on “Hogan’s Heroes.” “I see nothing… I see nothing.” No-one wants involved, drawn in to others problems or into any kind of corruption/possible legal actions. While the VA, med colleges, training camps, and state’s health care establishments circle their wagons and go on the attack full circle, every way imaginable.

        Rough physical touching, side arms half drawn over nothing, being told by some VA IT Marx-feminist not to question a ‘highly educated woman and highly trained by the VA merely over asking why she deleted all my Health E-vet Secure Messages and those saved. Scorned nasty looks even when complimenting one of the idiots they must not know how to react or of common courtesies. Continual episodes of excuses used when they lose it for whatever reasoning. Burn out, oh she’s pregnant or that time… ya know so excuse them. Crazy older staff MDs that should retire they’ve forgot or cant remember much. One MD in one clinic, foreigner from the Mid-East blew up telling us all to get out of his clinic. Mumbling about not wanting to see vets unless they were lifers, officers, had battle ribbons. Paraphrasing trying to dig into my memory. Dude kicked and threw chairs, pitched clip boards, screaming while walking out as we all left. Nurse standing by acted like it was nothing but shrugged her shoulders. Back home the excuse was burn out and to over-look that from over-worked dedicated VA staff.

        I better stop my book cause I can very easily write one when I get going and remember things, incidents, and issues. People have learned in my area well to keep their mouths shut and let whatever happens, to happen. To protect the corrupt and to hell with patients or the tax serf peasants with no connections. Leading to death, damages, false flagging, harassment, union thuggery, retaliation. Play their games, play along to get along with the evil existing elements and piss poor character of people today, their societies, clubs, associations and the activist. Depth of corruption and evil is dependent on location and in Indiana it is all encompassing and I ain’t kidding a bit.

        Happy evening folks.

  4. 06/20/2019

    Dear Benjamin Krause,

    Just ask and you will receive…Wow! 90 Comments.

    JJ start writing that book.

    My first question would be, “Why is the VA body-slamming ANYBODY?” asked Brian Howell—Good question and the City of Phoenix is paying the price here in Arizona for the Black Family at the Dollar Store, and I am sure Glendale, Arizona will pay the Price for the Tasering the guy’s testicles in February, Mesa, AZ is going to pay the price for Robert Johnson’s beating June of 2018, and the list goes on.

    Veteran JC stated that “You were not supposed to remember”….Most Americans cannot remember much after three days.

    The VA is counting on this and they are even helping you “learn to forget.”

    Good work everybody!!!


    Don Karg

  5. Gunner, I too have cancer and I conduct myself with military bearing as I am a West pointers daughter and was raised that way to set an example, always show respect for those in authority and be humble ever since I was a child. I also served in the Army myself after college in military intelligence in the US and overseas and later as a defense contractor . I followed the golden rule treat others as you expect to be treated. It does not work at the VA. I was educated as a child because my Dad was KIA IN 68 and I felt I owed my country 4 years for my “Free education”that my Dad paid for with his life when his plane was shot down. My younger sister did the same thing to repay her moral debt. Such is the survivors guilt of children of Vietnam vets. I am a SC disabled vet married to a SC Vietnam vet. Please do not lecture fellow veterans when we have been treated abysmally and share our anecdotal experience on this website about VA healthcare. We have served. My sisters, our husbands, and my cousins served. And now our have kids (finally) graduated they are serving…

  6. I wonder if it is legal to secretly record my appointments at the VA ? Does anyone know ? How can you defend yourself when they organize in secret to attack the character of the veteran to hurt them financially or have them committed to one of their crazy farms.

    1. Johnny R. Not according to a PA told me but I did it anyway in the end of things at the VA. The best couple of times that should have been done I forgot to turn the damn things on. Got all side-tracked in discussions, pain and health distractions so it can be hard to play I SPY nowadays. I refrained from recording the chit chat in waiting rooms and other vets or side issues.

      Cocky PA told me the big city ( I brought up the getting lost issues, etc.) was beautiful and safe like his VA and staff, no need to record things. That the VA is different, has different laws and after all is ‘federal property.’ To record I had to get signed release forms and discuss it with every PCP or MD seen. If caught recording or try to use any I would be charged with various crimes plus violating other patient’s rights and privacy at those times who would be notified if I tried to use them. And on it went. So careful. Over years I still can’t get the recording things nailed down to the legalities.

      1. IF you happen to have a diagnosis of Cognitive Disorder, you are allowed to record your interactions with all staff, as an Aide Memoire. This is part of the interpretation of the ADA as it applies to Federal Agencies.

        Otherwise, I do believe you are supposed to get everyone’s permission.

        In one respect, it’s just as well they know they are being recorded—they have to be a great deal more careful in how they record their notes and what they say in response to your questions.

        As far as the Behavioural Committee, though, they could care less what was actually said or done. Even if everyone knows you have an aide memoire, it does you no good because you have no opportunity to present your argument.

        Even the Army gave a chance to waste your breath…

  7. Secret societies run the world we chosen disabled veterans were and are still being used in their gang wars and left behind as the rat or cop in a situation so as to be brutally ripped apart and the truth covered up forever good guys bad guys they’re all the same they all do the same and work together when we do burst the bubble they contain us in to buy off those who could or would be able to help we are so fucking bad ass it would be epic if we were chosen to know what to do to truly protect there would be world peace they dont want that cause they would lose theyre false God status

  8. This is exactly what is the issue with the VA, there is no consistency in their medical care. I have seen it first hand where a doctor who was completely rude to me conducted himself entirely different with the next patient sitting next to me in the waiting area. So my solution is to go see a private doctor where I am a respectable tax paying person and not some cronies with stars next to their name on these medical personal’s computer.

    They need to treat all Vets the same, a General, a Private, a white or black person, these clicks or groups that form need to stop.

  9. Wow I’ve had nothing but the best care ever from the VA. They have saved my life. Without them cancer would have killed me long ago.
    They have helped me in every aspect of my life.
    When you bring these outrageous attitudes too any place your going too be treated accordingly. Honestly you all sound like you have some ideas to deal with. Such Paranoia.. I’m a vet also but I have too admit some beers bring these attitudes too the VA like they can act any disrespectful way they want. There real good at blaming everyone else for any problems they have even the are created ones. How you present yourself in life is good you will be treated. Your a veteran! Take care of yourselves, be examples, carry yourselves with pride and tell will be treated as the heroes you are!

    1. Well Gunner, good for you. But you show your lack of knowledge, concerns for others, and spout shit not knowing anything about others lives, how we act, who is factually at fault, seen or heard countless stories of harm down, or how some at the VA or wherever are or can be sicker than us in some ways or just as self-centered as you. Oh, and not all drink or dope and I haven’t drank in years and never had a complaint about my character, being a patient, or attitude. So don’t attempt to gas-light or turn the tables on vets or the harmed… or dead. You and others just reveal YOUR selves and feelings about some truth, facts, reality and the world around you. Crawl out from under your rock and see the real world cheerleader. Oh my god more injecting of the hero and leave no one behind propaganda. Do you do commercials too? You are just one of the lucky ones possibly in a good area but your experiences is not the same for all. Or are you one of those who think we be all the same and treated the same and living in la la land and all is well and perfect, ethical. LOL Paranoia my ass, your an activist, period.

      1. Wow I guess I should have botched and moaned like you… I’m not an activist by any means in fact I volunteer working with disabled veterans. Spend my vacation time across the country trying to help. I’m a disabled vet myself going in tomorrow for my third cancer operation sure to chemical exposure I received serving my country. So don’t tell me I’m living in la la Land! I just appreciate the care I receive and see the attitudes brought in but some vets. And it affects the care they receive. I’m in the real world. Work with vets every day. Share in there suffering from experience so take your judgement and shove it ahole.

      2. Done years and years of my own good works suck-fish. Sit next to many death beds, etc. Hear that fiddle? With your assumptions of others, claims, I sure would NOT want people like you working with me especially on a death bed. Dying and being blamed for a corrupt VA would be my fault according to YOU. Dealing with damage from the experts would be my fault too I suppose.

        “Appreciate” your own shit but you don’t have to accuse or attack others with different life experiences. I’ll assume you’re a lefty…sound like it, the usual… no negatives allowed oh my! No truth or reality of others. No support for those different than YOU. Oh yes we are all one and experience the same things in life and should join in all the “group-think” and happy village living, censor censor censor, attack all others, let corruption run rampant, oh your reports offend me and hurt my VA loving ears… blah blah bs. You have a very f-ing odd way of sharing in other’s sufferings bubba. ANNNNd apparently you’re new out here, and anonymous. I am not new nor anonymous. You’re judgements and belittling begat my, ire, judgements of my own suck-fish.

        However. An old Irish blessing goes out for you and I’ll fire up some prayers especially for you too tonight and add you to the list… along with usual ones for those here at home and about Ben’s blog. As well as a ‘father forgive him for he knows not how to judge others, is rude, cocky, or acts weird at times.’ Amen. Hope they get it all and good luck with it. Wake up, come back healthier, and learn some things.

      3. Ok…Whoa boys. Slow it down.

        Let’s try and remember that experiences differ. It’s not OK to equate one’s personal experience with the entirety of a huge Bureaucracy like the VA.

        Gunner, please don’t condescend. You don’t know what T has lived through. Yes, sometimes I want to choke him, but other times I want to kiss him—I expect he’s hoping for neither!

        The ideal that one could walk around with a “positive attitude” and thereby change the world into a positive place ran out of fuel at around 12 years old for most people.

        Imagine how you would feel if the VA refused to treat you for that chemical exposure? Suppose they called you a liar? You know it happened; you were there. But the VA doesn’t care about individual truths, it cares about claim liabilities. About costs.

        You’d feel a lot differently. And it isn’t your “positive attitude” that made the VA recongise your chemical exposure, either. Happy compliance does not move faceless Bureaucrats to do anything.

        But sure, Gunner, how we act with staff at the VA does have an impact. But I would argue that maybe we should get some slack for not all being happy super-positive examples of patriotism, because of the road we had to walk.

        It does us no good to hate each other, guys. Let us at least keep trying to see the other persons’ point, even when we strongly disagree. Let’s put rounds downrange, guys.

        Here endeth the lecture.

        And I am a lefty, as T well knows.

  10. I will contact my congressman about these egregious charges. I appreciate your advice because something is seriously out of line here. The only small comfort I could take from this situation when I contacted Blue Cross Blue Shield was that they said it didn’t matter what the VA billed that they were contractually bound to only pay them what had been specified in the contract. No wonder healthcare costs are exorbitant when nobody gives a rats a**. Whatever happened to fiscal responsibility? Nobody gets a free lunch somebody is paying for it!

  11. The explanation of benefits that I get from Blue Cross Blue Shield I get one that’s made payable to the VA and it’s for their facility fee it was for $592.46. I also got a separate explanation of benefits from Blue Cross Blue Shield that showed the VA charged 454.30 for the psychiatrist physician fee. If I go across the street to Shands Cancer Center they do not bill for any facility fee and my oncologist (who does not work for the VA since he works for Shands) bills $424 and sees me for an hour to review my pet scan, schedules my CAT scan and orders new or different chemo medications (not sees me for 20 minutes like the VA psychiatrist renewing my SAME prescriptions) -how’s that for the civilian world.

  12. This has become the norm. Congress needs to stand up to the corrupt VA some Vets have no choice and should not have to take the abuse the the VA police and employees dish out.

  13. I’m a 100% service connected disabled vet
    Doctors have lied in my medical reports from I raised my cane as to strike the doctir, wife was oresent. My cane never left the floor. I’ve been promised surgery, farmed out to a private doctor who did minimal work on service connected injury and failed to repair the damaged bicep caused by the shoulder injury. Laughed at by the physical therspedt. I refuse to go back my injuries are no laughing matter. Hounded they get me to raise my voice and argue with nurse. I’ve always take wife but she has to work I’m close to 66 and have been cared for by the VA since 1997 but the VA I use now is a very bad place? I can’t talk to my doctor and explain my health issues because they did not fix the last right shoukder? was told I had cancer in my left ear! just cut out cancer! but it was so deep in to the drum! so I found a doctor in town who sent me to a dermatologist he ran a blood test I had herpes upper? antibodies cured ne! refused surgery when VA offered to cut out inner esr. I lost my right ear in service and almost all in left when they wanted to disfigured me.
    Much more to say but no one cares, I’m the one being abused

    1. Dude….we care. Trust me, we care. WE can’t do shit about it, but we will listen and agree and support.

      Oh…and often get in huge arguments about pointless shit like which Party is better. But hey, everybody’s human.

  14. I have no been well and by trying to get help I found how horrible the VA. Never see a patient advocate, will take your info to correct or hide mistakes and do nothing. Everyone wants and calls their senator, sometimes helps. The people who handle complaints always deal with same people, as any veteran organization, they have a working relationship and work buddies and it goes beyond the director. They don’t care, do you believe a Federal Police security guard with the big ego body slammed for no reason? He did because the get away with it. The VA is a horror story, each one every single day and I am looking forward for my time to leave and thrown in the incinerator in a cardboard box. I am having such a hard time I cry everyday.

  15. I apologize for all of the spelling errors. I’m on my phone and I lost my glasses the other day they fell out of my pocket and you can imagine it will be forever before I get an appointment to have them replaced at the VA. again my apologies for the spelling errors I couldn’t see them on my phone. I know some people get really pissed off when there are spelling errors and I don’t want to offend anyone.

  16. I had to comment on this one. It occurred at the Gainesville VAMC in January 2017 after a second cancer surgery. I had made two calls to Telecare which would never return by providers I had been taken to the emergency room twice one of which had resulted in a hospitalization because of blood loss finally after 3 1/2 weeks of non-stop bleeding I had gone to the emergency room for the third time in an Uber because my husband was at work. The emergency room said go up to the third-floor to the clinic and have them take care of you. I was weak from blood loss but climb to the third-floor with my cane. It was 730 in the morning and I told the nurse I needed to see a doctor that day and I would wait As long as it took. She said there were no doctors to see me that day that I need to go home and and make an appointment. I’d had it and said I was going to sit in the waiting room and be seen if I had to sit there and bleed to death waiting. That was probably not a good thing to say because she called the police on me. Well there was a puddle of blood on the floor. After all I’ve been bleeding for 3 1/2 weeks nonstop since the surgery. The three policeman looked at me sitting there on my phone talking to my mother after I called my husband to come up to the hospital. One of the police officers immediately left saying there was no threat from 115 pound woman. The other one went to talk to the nurse and saw that I had been through hell and all levels of the chain of command: Telecare emergency room overnight visit emergency room that day at Cetera and the second one sat with me and said I’m taking you to the patient advocate this is ridiculous drip drip drip blood all over the floor running down my arm. No veteran should be treated like this he said this is absurd they have doctors available. He took me down to the patient advocate she made one phone call and a doctor magically appeared. The doctor pulled out the tube and said it’ll take 24 hours before the bleeding will stop. The bleeding stopped immediately upon the tube being removed and I never bled again . Follow-up to the story the chief of staff of the hospital sends me a certified letter telling me I’ve been a bad veteran and that in the future I needed to go up the proper channels of command whatever those would be and not make a scene at the hospital or I wouldn’t be allowed to be seen at the hospital again in the future. A further caveat I had a nasty primary care physician which I still have and she got snippy with me about test results several Years ago and sent me an email saying that if I didn’t speak nicely to her in emails I wouldn’t be able to use the email system in the future. There was no profanity she just didn’t like my tone. So now I bend over backwards speaking in my “butter wouldn’t melt in my sweet little mouth” tone with her to the point where it would make you gag but I am as nice as can be. I hate the Gainesville VA now I’ve got to go into my psychiatrist who had me on Ridellan had to hire does and ask him to put me on a lower dose because the two high dose gave me side effects and he’ll probably give me a song and a dance about lowering the dose. My daughter was on Ridellan and it took her psychiatrist to a tamps before he got the right dose so they don’t always get the right dose the first time. But what do you want to bet he’ll give me all kinds of grief. Instead of realizing he didn’t hit the magic does the first time and that it’s normal to have to titrate the dose until you get it correct that’s normal pharmacological practice and going down into dose is not something unusual. It’s only unusual at the VA not in the civilian world. Can hardly wait until July 24th when I have to go head to head with him . Oh another gripe my old psychiatrist at the VA had a $366 facility fee while this new guy- his facility fee is $592. Her psychiatrist physician fee was $288this new one- his psychiatrist fee is $454. They were both long time VA employees of 30 years. can anybody tell me why he bills out at such phenomenally higher rates than she did and we’re talking in the last few months?

    1. I do not understand these facility fees you refer to. I know that if you are over income or in one of the Cat 7 or 8, you may pay a copay TO THE VA. You need to get with your Senator or hire a lawyer. I have NEVER heard of a VA doctor charging FEES. I would also print out a STANDARD FORM 95. Tort Claim For Damage, Injury or Death. File claim for 1 Million $ and send it to the Director of your VA Facility. It sounds to me these people are just Blatantly Torturing You, and others there. If the docs are charging Vets. That is ILLEGAL as HELL!

  17. Yes close the VA they are so full of hate anger and racist to help anyone. I started going to the VA over 40 years after my ETS because of Obama care lost me insurance. I have seen thing that brought all the problems back that I had after three tours in combat. I have been abused by VA police and other VA employees I once removed by police for not saying Sir to a young VA employee that couldn’t even pronounce my name . I could write a book. After only three years going to the VA.guys you don’t know how bad it can be til you go to Central Alabama Veterans Health Care Services.

  18. There are a couple of president Trump’s speeches where he states that VA employees were sadistic.
    I can not find any shared experiences/news reports that back up that claim. I know that what happened to me does, and is what they have in their protocol tool box to control a patient. But it did not have to happen if they respected me. My values.

    I’ve learned that employees will cover themselves, and each other.

    The hospital says they can’t question employees. They can’t have video camera’s in the procedure rooms. They can’t be threatened with, or given a lie detector test to confirm what I say happened.

    A doctor from another VA hospital told me, after listening to me for an hour, said, “You were not supposed to remember”

  19. I was slammed to floor at Temple Texas 2012. I woke up on a park bench with an legalpad paper stuck to my chest with a metal pin into body, asking me that I will never return there. Message recieved loud and clear. Austin Texas wasn’t as bad. Seen the VAhomeless department chase away Veteran’s with bug spray. Worst department ever is usually the homeless department. Beatings are 10X there and the mental health clinics than the regular clinics. Rape happening as if normal every day thing in central Texas VA systems plus beatings.

  20. 6/29 veteran commitee holding hearing on what they learned from whistle blowers me- jack shit

    Tester demanded the secret wait list going around

  21. best one I found va dr so lazy he copy pasted a vets findings to over 1100 other veterans records. One mental health vet lived at the va and had one note in 5 years

  22. absolutely you can record your dr appointment and anyone in public view. Police don’t like it than maybe they shouldn’t be recording either lol. We live in a recorded world. No one aloud to take your things. one vet accidentally recorded his surgery and on the tape the dr was talking shit and suggesting falsifying his records. while he was past out

  23. Was wondering what was going on with the vet in Texas. There more to the story than we are being told. Probably a vet tired of the broken system jerking him around. Get a band of vets go sit on side walk with protest signs

    1. Actually, you’re probably as close to the truth as we’re going to get. The Olin E. Teague VAOPC had a Medical Clinic Director (the Dr. in charge of all the medical staff, who only answers to his boss in Temple, not to the OPC Director in Austin) who was extremely petty. If he wound up in the wrong, he committed way more resources than he should have done to persecuting that person—four different long-service VA Drs, and numerous veterans, myself included. He would interfere in patient care, refuse to authorise procedures or medication, refuse to authorise Choice, refuse to allow Pain Management at the Clinic, and so on…

      The VA Patient Advocate involved is a typical VA Stooge, with a layer of condescension and a definite career path to make clear who’s butter gets his bread; he even announces that he is NOT an “advocate”, he is a “representative”; he represents the VA’s position to Veterans. Jaw-dropping.

      He was also this Clinical Director’s Toady. Complaints about the C/D actions referred to him elicited a meeting with the “Advocate”, in the Advocate’s office, where the advocate stood against the wall on the C/D’s “side” of the room with his arms folded (this from many personal interviews and multiple personal experiences); it was their SOP. It would be explained to the Veteran how they had no option but to submit to the C/D “decision”.

      For example, I was told I was not on a medicine I was actually on, and which I had just submitted to a “urine screen” (drug test) for. This went on for THREE YEARS. The C/D at the OPC had nothing better to do than force DR. after Dr. to refuse to give me my Rx without a battery of tests that always wound up going against his “diagnosis”, until at last, the senior Neurologist complained to the Head of Neurology for the CTXVA at Waco. WTF?

      I cannot say what happened in the meeting with the Toady. I do know the Veteran was told there was noting to be done—that the decision was “VA Policy”; that part of the exchange was shouted between the Veteran and the Toady and heard by about 50 people. This is the usual line, even when blatantly untrue.

      The Clinic Director “resigned” after the incident, this being at least the second time he had been under some kind of internal investigation (they all get buried).

      I cannot imagine the VA owning up to being negligent in response to the hundreds (possibly over one thousand, but I have no data for that) complaints filed about the C/D, including a dozen-odd complaints from the Drs. and Medical Professionals working for him.

      The truth is, of course, that the Veteran killed himself for a complex of reasons, and because he was in need of medical treatment. That the stonewalling by the C/D and his Toady was a precipitating event seems quite likely, but is not really knowable without more information. It’s possible something else would have driven the veteran over the line.

      The key point is, the one place a Veteran should be safe from his demons is among his brothers and sisters at the VA; among the professionals and lay persons who chose to serve those who served them. That such a statement is embarrassingly naive is almost as sad as how may of us die of despair at the VA.

  24. I have been fortunate to not have been arrested for my meltdowns over the bureaucracy at the VA. Of course, I’m 6’1 294 and not an old man just yet.

    Still… these Draconian police state tactics must stop.

    And they wonder why I keep telling them that they feed my PTSD with their callous and insensitive behavior.

    It must stop. I feel like it is their mission to kill us. Quickly, if possible. Slowly, is just as good for them.

    Congress doesn’t give a damn about us(as a whole). Choice is crap.

    I got a bill from two years ago for an appointment that was handled by a Choice provider. The clinics utilized by Choice won’t accept government payment as full payment, as is authorized by law.

    My wife has CHAMPVA being that I’m rated at 100% for PTSD and 70% for everything else.

    Same problem.

    Wife goes for treatment, we get another bill for what the provider wants because they don’t comply with the law ( I don’t remember the regulation exactly, but will look for it). They report it to the credit bureaus and voila; damaged credit.

    Does the VAHS care? Not at all.

    We complain, get pissed off; out come the police to harrass us for exercising our right to get pissed off at government bureaucracy. Again, I haven’t been harrassed, but after reading a bunch of these comments, I see it happens.

    Until someone gets it on video and it goes viral; nothing will change.

    That: is what socialized medicine in America is.

  25. The disruptive behavior committees need to be addressed nation wide. There really needs to be a recourse for Veterans who get put on them to appeal that decision. Just because a Veteran raises his/her voice doesn’t constitute limiting their access to their care. It’s an earned benefit and to limit it, without due process, isn’t right at all. I’d like to play devils advocate here and take a contrary position about the Police. There are a lot of comments above that suggest the Police are always wrong and use strong arm tactics especially at certain VA facilities. Full disclosure, I used to work in law enforcement and I can tell you without a doubt I would NEVER work as a VA Police Officer. Think about it, they have to respond to calls that deal with Veterans. A demographic where defensive tactics, weapons experience, mental issues, and dependency issues like drugs and alcohol are prevalent. You have to be a special type of crazy to want to work in that environment. Half of us are wearing our Sniper, Seal, Special Forces, and UFC fighter cool guy crap all over our shirts and we want to chastise them when they respond a certain way? I’m sure the last thing a Police Officer wants to do is touch anyone, that’s too much paperwork. Also, I think I read somewhere that over 90% of their thousands of officers are Veterans too. They probably agree with most of what we all feel about the VA and its bureaucracy. Nobody deserves to die from a law enforcement action and I am glad to hear that folks who thought they were wronged are taking the fight to them, in court. Bad officers across the broad spectrum of law enforcement need to be weeded out. As veterans we need to understand that we are sitting, a lot of times, across the table from a doctor or nurse who is scared to death of us. When we raise our voices in disagreement to advocate for ourselves, they are going to call somebody. When that guy or gal shows up, they might not be the one to escalate with. Lord knows if you have a history and they already know you have certain tendencies to escalate they are going to do their jobs.
    All that said, my Veteran and citizen side says they have no right to be over zealous pricks, but neither do we.

    1. The primary mission-executive of a Peace Officer in a situation involving verbal confrontation in a controlled environment is to de-escalate that situation.

      Placing a hand on their weapon, positioning their “partner”—also with a hand on their weapon—directly behind the Veteran, and then thrusting their pelvis at the sitting veteran (a subconscious move of aggression among insecure males), are none of them likely to de-escalate.

      If you were a Peace Officer, then you know that those actions escalate a situation. They are only effective in situations where the civilians involved are likely just as full of bluster.

      Calm words, calm voice, eye-contact, quiet posture—all these are actions that de-escalate. Starting with a comradely “hey guys, let’s wind it down a bit” or etc… wouldn’t hurt. Treating everyone as part of the same team, just having got a little hot under the collar.

      How many Veterans have attacked nurses or doctors at the VA? How many have beaten up, or otherwise injured, Peace Officers?

      I would say the threat-assessment you have made is over-stated, and that it is the “petrol-on-the-fire” approach of “cops” that results in stressful escalations.

      Oh…and this is supposed to be OUR HOUSE.

      1. Steven,
        “Placing a hand on their weapon” is called weapon retention. Its part of the training. , “Positioning their “partner”—also with a hand on their weapon—directly behind the subject” is called good tactics in an unknown situation. “Thrusting their pelvis at the sitting subject” Not sure why you were looking at his pelvis but I support your right to use any bathroom you choose. Easy to Monday morning QB any tactics used and as a sergeant I did that for a living. Id bet money and win that the other side of this story would differ greatly. And that’s where we are at, two sides to every story. There are Horrible cops in this world. There are also a few veterans among us who are also shit human beings. I have made no threat assessment, it’s not my job anymore. But to think all of us veterans and all of our issues and alpha male attitudes all sit there like good little boys and girls and never get loud, throw things, or fight, your view of our house is a bit off.

      2. Well, you actually avoided answering any of my questions or addressing any of my concerns. The sum total of you’re response was to employ a pejorative assessment of my sexuality.


        So the conclusion is, you have no answer. Oh, and you DID perform a threat-assessment, so some more of that “Monday Morning QB” might be useful on your part.

        I don’t know what you were a Sergeant of, but any shift sergeant knows that lacing one’s self directly in the line-of-fire of one’s partner is not authorized Tactics. Among the Peace Officers I know, all indicated it happens, but that it is contrary to training and the kind of mistake that catches up to one.

        As a Very Important Sergeant of Threat Assessment and Monday Morning Quarterbacking, you are a bit of a danger to your troopers—the most likely event is “Blue-Blue” GSW. And if your guys walk around “retaining” their weapons because your equipment is too shitty to do what it is intended to do—buy some new equipment.

        Also, if you really are too homophobic to understand that a legs-wide, hand-on-weapon, pelvis-forward, stance is considered aggressive and escalatory by most major Peace Officer organisations (all the one’s I personally know of or whose training materials I have reviewed), than I am concerned about your career as a Peace Officer.

        As for your characterisations of my post—beyond your homophobia, which I have already addressed—I did not write anything which could be said to characterise Veterans or the VA as you indicate. Your mischaracterisation of my post is also inadequate as an answer.

        In sum, you have no facts or reasoned argument to support your position. Moreover, to blame veterans and assert that VA staff are rightfully frightened of us, is to perpetuate the “unstable psychopaths” narrative which is so often placed upon us.

  26. $500,000 was nothing for the mans life. it should have been more than that. Say $500 million and some busted knee caps. THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!


  27. I personally was mistreated by Albuquerque VAMC Campus Police. Watch out Fellas, this is a dangerous group of thugs leading the pack is a a Klapper Headed Porker who can’t wait to make up stories about you . Some weird shit happens on that Campus and it happened to me. I filed a complaint with the FBI last year and I left town because they’re crazy. Filing false police reports is only the beginning. If you have to go there , take a witness in a separate car.

    This experience was the end for me. No more VA care and I live in another state now . I haven’t ruled out a Federal Tort for this matter and I know time is running out on filing but its better to be safe then wind up dead in an Albuquerque ditch bank. Staying there was not an option for me or my wife and I’m sure the people involved wanted to go on living .
    Leaving Albuquerque and the VA was the best option. Yeah, it is that bad. Janet Napolitano identified the wrong group of people. It’s the Medical Staff and the VA Police together with the VBA and its others that have formed a union of treacherous people who will stop at nothing to protect their goldmines. Murder means nothing to these scumbags. Just like the AMA in the public domain, we Veterans are the goldmine waiting to be picked.

  28. We not only have to battle our enemies, overseas us Veterans we have to face our own here at home. Vietnam Veteran USN

  29. I also get stressed before and during appointments. Blood pressure soars, anxiety increases. All I ever get is a bullshit excuse about every screw up and road block to get substandard healthcare from someone who’s first language isn’t English and can’t understand half of what they hear and are understood even less. Wait times are still an issue and I’m forced to drive almost 2hrs to get any radiology and THERE IS NO CHOICE. I have to go where they say I can, not where I want to go for civilian treatment and still wait months to do it. NOTHING has improved in the decade I’ve had to go to this clinic, in fact, some things have gotten worse.

  30. I feel like the VA had been retaliating against me in the past for reporting problems and outright lies by the doctors and nurses and messing with my prescriptions, messing with my appointments schedule and possibly even my records. Shortly After I complained about possible retaliations, the anomalies diminished and the numerous sketchy roadblocks I kept encountering vanished.

  31. Instead of a Disruption Behavior Committee why not a committee to find out why the veteran is behaving the way he is. Seems much more pro active but then we are talking about the VA aren’t we?

  32. Also, the current Police State we live in allows ALL COPS to do as they please. Without repercussions. Civilian and VA COPS ALIKE. This chicken shit cop here shot my UNARMED buddy last month. Cause he ran from him. Just pisses me off to no end.

  33. #5.) Ben ought to look into this one!


  34. I don’t see where they’re useful or anything. They’re not protecting veterans just the incompetent medical staff and screwball bureaucrats. The younger ones seem like they’re the ones who want to throw their weight around slamming veterans to the ground. Someone should check the NVLSP-VA-manual and see if it says anything on the “amount of force” they can use.

  35. When I go to my appointments the stress & anxiety increases 150%. I know that they are trying to provoke me, the security guards, doctors & staff. I have tried going to various VA Clinics but when they read the computer the professionalism & tact is gone, if they hate me that much why can’t I go somewhere to get medical treatment without the drama, I just want to be treated fair & with respect. I feel trapped with my condition & the people that are paid to help me using their privilege to secretly move me in a direction toward anger because they know my medical history and use it against me. The cat & mouse game has got to stop because I can’t take it anymore.

    1. Everytime my husband and I go to the BA lately, a cop isn’t to far away from us.
      When my husband starts to talk about our experiences with the No Choice Program we get escorted right away to his appointment. They don’t want the truth out. I do those polls on Trumps website and put stuff about our experiences and he get a call shortly afterwards.
      They hate us.

    2. Johnny Roe,
      Whenever I have a va appointment, I can’t sleep the night before. When I get there, my blood pressure is high!
      I know exactly what your going through!

      1. Yep, ya never know what to expect from them, it’s a living breathing conspiracy, they change my Psych. meds over 2 words in a matter of seconds, if I die they will just lie.

  36. #4.)

  37. #3.)


  38. You may have seen this one –


  39. Yep Ben. I know all too well about the Flagging BS. A few years ago I complained about being lied to by a pharmacist. After meeting with the new head of pharmacy, 3 months later, I received a letter from the Chief Of Staff. It stated that I had been reported as being VIOLENT and combative. I was put on some list. I was supposed to only be on property for scheduled appointments. Arrived only 10 min. prior to appt. Report to VA Police for escort to appt. And leave immediately afterwards. Needless to say, I did NONE OF THAT. I came and went as I needed. NEVER reported to VA POLICE. A friend that works there said the first thing that shows up on their computer when my file was opened, was a BIG RED FLAG. When I got the letter, I responded to the COS with my side of the story. I told her that I was a Vietnam Vet that defended mine and every other American’s Right To Defend Ourselves. And this Flag Policy was the worst case of Communist, Nazi tactics I have ever seen. A couple months ago, after about 4 years of flag, I got a letter from them saying that Since I Had Been Such A Good Boy, ( my paraphrase) , The Flag Has Been Removed From my File. I didn’t even bother to respond. I do know that as an Attorney, You Ben, should be filing a lawsuit to stop this BULLSHIT!

  40. I received another batch of emails. I’ll have to “paste” them one at a time!

  41. Barry Hoggle Soetoro is the worse ever in our Government. He wasn’t even a Citizen. Who ever heard of an American Citizen having an Indonesian Passport. He was registered as Barry Soetoro in DC in 2008 when he voted for himself. Or did he also have one saying he was Barack Hussein Obama? How many SS cards does he have? Last count I believe was 16. I could be wrong and he could have more by now.
    VA needs to be shut down for all the things they do against our Veterans. No Choice Program was designed for the Gov to give taxpayers money to whatever group they want to. Not for Veterans.
    Barry Hoggle Soetoro used it for Refugees and Trespassers.

  42. No citizen or veteran has to ever talk with the police. This isn’t the military you actually have constitutional rights. I think VA forgets that. They will go after a whistle blower, veteran or disabled in a heart beat and turn a blind eye to there miss dead’s

  43. I too have been a victim of VA police misconduct. I have never seen anything like it. I was given a ticket after being verbally attacked by another veteran. The VA police are supposed to witness any event in order to issue a federal citation. They did not. They lied and I have them on the record lying. They were also given a statement by my fellow employee who witnessed everything and was favorable to me. This statement strangely “disappeared.” That in itself is a violation of the law. Miami VA police are degenerate losers, racists and liars. Cowards who harass people who served in combat, while they could never get do a real cop job on the street. This will all come out eventually, however it is close to impossible to have any oversight over their reprehensible behavior and violations of an individual’s constitutional rights. They violate their own rules and the law. Try finding anyone in the VA leviathan that will listen to you.

  44. Man not sure about private care people. I have been trying to work with private Dr on my case and they seem at least as bad or worse dealing with the VA doctors. Suing on private industry is probably as hard as suing in the Federal Government. Just an opinion

    1. No, this one I have to give the VA, hands-down. It is far, far, harder to address the VA via the legal system than it is to address a private practice physician.

      Lucre—the love of money and the love of the luxuries it buys—works to provide a certain amount of fear and “undersight” to the private sector that the Federal Government protects itself from. While the government being apart from the People and unaccountable to them is contrary to the principles of the Constitution, a large minority of the Founders were (real) Federalists, who wanted what is nowadays called “Big Government”, and they ensured it happened.

      So no…it is much, much harder to sue the VA or a VA Health Care Provider than to due a HCP who is not shielded by the Federal Government.

      1. Steven,
        Did you know, here in Florida, a private care physician does NOT have to carry “malpractice insurance”!
        A few years ago, I was seen by a “civilian physician” who proudly displayed a document on his waiting room wall describing this!
        That’s why it’s hard to get a judgement against physicians here in Florida.
        On the other side of this coin, there’s a law where physicians must carry protective insurance, up to $1 million, in case of their malpractice!
        Just thought I’d throw that in here!

      2. CE….I did say “undersight” and qualify with “a certain amount”—though I didn’t think any state was THAT bad.

  45. I don’t go to medical facilities anywhere other than the VA where the “health care providers” need police to protect them from their patients. Maybe if they did their jobs as professionally and as well as the outside health care facilities do, the VA could eliminate their private “police force”. Just a thought.

  46. Thank God,I know someone close that was slammed stomped and the mom jumped In defending her son and They both were charged also That same person has ptsd bad was left in care of his dad with ptsd and other problems went to store and was charged with elderly abuse and sent to prison,va fiduciary left another ptsd vet to take care of another one I told them to contact news media and senator In atlanta

  47. TOTALLY AGREE; We must flood the system with thousands of lawsuits against the bureaucrats, (REALLY BOOBS), who design and promote these policies.
    As I stated before, they tried this strong arm-NAZI policy on me at the D.C. VA when I very politely and patiently insisted that I needed my x-rays of recent surgery that day to take to a private doctor. After going up the “chain of command” I ended up at the Director’s office where I again patiently and politely insisted that I needed those x-rays that day, (an exception to the policy of taking TEN DAYS to provide veterans with their records, After telling me to wait outside the offices, a few minutes later, FIVE VA COPS APPEARED DOWN THE HALL ADVANCING TOWARDS ME.
    I politely asked the cops: ‘Hey, Guys, You coming for me??”
    One of them said: “Yes we are”‘
    I replied, “Good, cuz I could use the money!”
    One of the officers, apparently had met me before and we had bullshitted about our military experiences, (a big, 6’5″ kid from New Jersey, nice, kid), INTERVENED AND STATED
    So, he got on the radio with the Director’s office and then they turned around and left, without moving up the hall toward me further.
    Then the Director’s representative came out of the office and told me I could go down and pick up my x-rays.
    I politely thanked her and went on my way.
    As well, better screening of applicants for VA cops jobs needs to be done, PRONTO.
    When you think about a Marine Corps Colonel committing suicide in the parking lot of the VA over frustration with the VA bureaucracy WHICH IS SUPPOSED TO SERVE US, well, Ladies and Gents, as they say in Houston, “WE GOT A PROBLEM”(I have met many VA cops some of whom are very mature and capable people, and I have met others who are WORMS WITH GUNS, people with emotional problems much more serious than any vets who seek care.
    If I were the son, Father, Brother, Uncle of any veteran who had been “body slammed” without due cause, I would communicate to those cops and their boob bureaucrats as Wyatt stated in Tombstone: “you tell ’em I’m coming and Hell is coming with me”. (I would make sure that the offending cops, (after prosecution and civil lawsuits), never walked again.
    Not one vet should think about suicide as an alternative to VA medical care due to the care being so good and sympathetic.
    I remember going to the director’s offices on another occasion to demand that immediate care be given to an old black guy in a wheel chair who had been waiting 6 hours in the outpatient pharmacy, having pissed his pants.
    The Assistant Director, told me, “Do not raise your voice in here!” I replied: ” Oh I haven’t raised my voice, this is just my normal command voice but if you insist, I will show you what my raised voice is like; Now go take care of that veteran, NOW!” (I guess I could have been body slammed, but they apparently erred on the side of caution………………
    When Bernie Sanders stated that Vets were receiving great care, BERNIE TOLD A BEEG, BEEG LIE!!

    1. As well as Trump, yesterday, saying he has done more for Vets than ANY other Pres. in history, and Vets are finally getting good care. We need to understand that is that it is No One Party or Candidate. NONE of those privileged BASTARDS give a FUCK about a VETERAN, till election time.

  48. So…Yes, to all the questions.

    I have been placed in handcuffs—although the officer repeatedly assured me I was not being arrested YET—and forcibly sat down, for declining to sit down and leaving the **empty** pouch for my 45 year old Buck knife on my belt (the knife itself was at home, of course). To be fair, the administrator I was disagreeing with wanted the Police Officer to “just go away”, but some one who overheard me decline to sit down “became alarmed” and called the VA Police.

    I informed the officer I had a GSW to my left shoulder area and brachial plexus, and using handcuffs would cause me severe pain and possible injury. The officer went ahead.

    Next, when two Veterans were “talking shit” about the supposed role their respective units took in the Vietnam war, showing off to a VA Desk Clerk who was egging them on, I asked them to stop, and then spoke very forcefully “shut the fuck up”.

    I was confronted by the VA Police after the VA clerk called them in—neglecting to mention their role or that of their flirtatious warrior-heroes. One of the officers stood behind me with their hand on their weapon; the other in front of me with their hand on their weapon—they would have shot one another quite nicely. The “front” officer was extremely confrontational and made no attempt to deescalate the situation, nor even to establish the facts. When I refused to apologise to anyone, I was asked if I thought a stay in the Austin PD jail would change my mind/attitude. I replied in a very soldierly manner that other persons, of whose skills I had a higher opinion, had not found that tactic to be successful (or words to that effect).

    After I asked to be switched to a new Dr. because my then-current one did not treat me like a human being, I was reported for having called the then-current Dr. all sorts of names and used all manner of coarse language. I only learned this because my new Dr. began lecturing me about behaviour, but apparently saw that I was honestly confused about what she was talking about, and so said she didn’t believe it happened, so never mind.

    A few weeks later I received a letter informing me I had been Flagged by the “Disruptive Behavior Committee”, and that if I did not conform to the VA’s (unstated) code of conduct, I would be escorted by VA Police whenever I was on site. Nothing was ever officially said about what I was supposed to have done.

    It turned out that the Patient Advocate—there is usually only the one—at the Olin E Teague Austin OPC had reported me for what he was told my previous physician claimed I said! So much for the presence of the PA on the “Committee”, or for evidence, or even for any sort of investigation.

    It reminded me of being in the service—when Jr. Officers would throw their flyweight bars around to remind one that you might be an E5 and the pointy end of the stick, but they were An Officer!

    And then you were an E4…again.


  49. ” enforcement targets v.a. patients”
    Recent statement made by federal prosecuter
    Indianapolis, Indiana:
    Michael kaim, v.a. police officer repeatedly struck v.a. patient in the face and head causing severe injury. Maim has been indicted. He faces 10 to 20 years.
    Legal model excellent to ensure prosecution of abusive v.a. police.
    If we veterans were organized we could stop v.a. police abuse using this legal format.
    Note: there are many cases pending concerning the killing of v.a. patients by the v.a. police.

    1. Christopher Miller,
      Could you give sources please!
      Since the AFGE won the suit on 7 June 2019, disallowing VA to publish the names of employees who commit crimes, it’s hard researching your facts.

      1. The government has a Great deal to hide. Subsequently they make it difficult for us to obtain information, but never impossible.
        The issue regarding Michael kaim
        was obtained thru the pending fed court docs. Additionally there has been several stories written. One if which was by disabled June 2016. Google Michael Jain federal prosecution.
        As to the v.a. police, I have personally witnessed abuse by v.a. police st every v.a. hospital I have been in. Thousands of articles have been written about v.s. police abuse since 1998 that I know of.
        Regarding an article I wrote in 2014 in reference to Dr. Schlict, American Bengals Albuquerque v.a. car who killed 400 people by injecting them with cement and p. Resin research initial publication (newspaper) in Albuquerque.
        In reference to “death list” at Albuquerque v.a. med ctr containing names of 2657 vets not to be treated and were a signed to doctors
        that did not exist (457) vets on the list died. I was on the list, barely survived; best source OIG report regarding surprise inspection of Albuquerque v.a. med ctr who in included; senators congressmen/women and respresenatives. Inspection 2014 sept. Involved: conf. Grisham, sen Heinrich, sen. Udall.
        Feel free to question anything I say about the v.a. I don’t want to be right.

    2. Christopher Miller,
      I don’t want to be right either. The problem is, the VA does it to themselves! They’re all, or mostly all, a bunch of scumbags! They try hard not to get caught. Hell, some don’t care if they get caught. Because their union backs them!

      1. They are Deep State. Socialized medicine. No accountability. We are told to do as your told or you get dropped from the rolls.

        That’s police state tactics. Tomah, WI. Albuquerque. San Diego. Murfreesboro, TN. Dublin, GA. The worst VA Healthcare System.

        It will only stop when the Deep State run VAHS is torn down to its foundations.

        That’s just

  50. Why are the v.a. police incompetent idiots? Look to the incompetent idiots who hired them and
    support their Nazi like behavior.
    In the interim prior to the veterans administration’s self destruction and subsequent demise we veterans are treated like dogs by the very people we gave everything for. The American people do not stand up for veterans as we did for them.
    I feel like a “sucker”.
    In all 7 of the v.a. hospitals I have been “mistreated” in, I have witnessed body slamming, and all types of physical and verbal abuse by the v.a. (s.s.) police.
    As to the so-called committees, all letters sent out regarding regarding bad behavior by veterans, the letters are not signed. The signature is signed by “the committee”. A very Nazi/kgb way of dealing with out of control v.a. mis management.
    It seems apparent that in order not to be abused and not be killed by the v.a. we veterans will have to fight for our lives! Again!

  51. The problem hasn’t been fixed because they haven’t body slammed the right veteran yet.

    1. Well they are all, or my locale, covering all their butts well enough. No recordings, cell phones, video taping, etc., in the court house, police stations, some meetings, or cops out in the field. Said to be for our safety and that of authorities and those in the legal system or possible witnesses. Yeah, right.

      I’ve told them all from top to bottom, at the VA and their PA or staff clowns and every agency and barf bag politician out there I refuse any longer to discuss anything or have conversations with anyone over all the issues at hand, period. That also includes health care professionals with what I’ve had to deal with or due to all the covering-up and protections for the professional groups. It is totally insane out here and near impossible to protect or have ways to defend ourselves. I think some will see the big pictures here and what is to come.

      I am saving up for a body cam and better dash cams. But like recorders, recording in the past, they can and will confiscate those items too if need be. No getting them back or the torn up tapes either. We peasants are just here as test rats, worker bees, and taxes.

      1. Just a suggestion:
        Make sure any personal surveillance device(s) are connected to the Internet and data stored ‘in-the-cloud’ in an encrypted ‘vault’ which only ‘you’ know the password. And, if you can muster the memory, use a 16-character password using strong password techiques!’ Also, if expected or potentially confrontational situations arise, purchase micro-cameras and record that way. I’m not sure of the State or Federal Laws prohibiting unsolicited audio or visual recording, though would investigate, especially if the VA is concerned. Fortunately, I can say I’ve had no run-ins with VA Police.

        I don’t know which is worse, dealing with VA criminals or those in the public sector? I have a portrait of a cat, standing in front of a police booking wall, which has a sign around his neck which says, “I HATE PEOPLE!”

      2. Holy Soldier, thanks for the tips and they are always welcome. Not going to get much help or instruction locally for sure.

        I don’t know about the recording laws here since hearing conflicting reports and nobody caring or willing to put guarantees in writings or backed up by any lawyers dancing around giving advice. I take it as long as one knows but the word games and applications are ambiguous. Wouldn’t matter since the courts, state’s AG, etc., here are so damn corrupt anyway. Like I have tried to show and explain as life goes on. We here deal with systems and the establishment so corrupt, zero ethics, oath keeping for them is a joke just like due process is.

        Funny stuff. I had Snoopy on my dash with the same sign until someone stole it. lol Got my Hula girl too. Left Jesus on board though.

        Got a list of things to do and get including those micro-cams. If need be I’ll call in the Geek Squad to help me set things up. But they’ll still have metal detectors, x-ray, and newer updated airport style see everything scanners to use so we can’t sneak electrons in to those unwanted protected areas.


        The clowns out here saying there are ‘two sides to every story’ and such. Nope, not really. LEOs, agencies, staffers, VA cliques, politicians, contractors, are believed before us peasants. If the right witnesses are around or they pick on the wrong person or vet, things may come out into the open. If a cop of any sort arrests us for something claimed like a DUI or some idiot phony charge they don’t have to give you any tests to drag us in front of judge to show their powers, and told if they do there is no laws to enforce us asking for test to prove innocence. And they don’t have to turn on their cameras and that info is not dependable either and can be edited.

        The corrupt always makes sure the ball is in their court. The corrupt can mess with our files, deleted things like our Healthy E-vet “secure communications” at will or as needed to protect their own. They are the ones who can call, harass and threaten, spoof phone numbers, and you can have them caught but that too doesn’t matter if no investigations are instituted in a timely fashion, or as usual totally ignored. Whatever they do is supported and highly protected. In my cases I discovered there is no such things like Constitutional rights or agencies to help. It’s all a facade and game. While the cheerleaders and supporters of the VA and corruption cheer on and smile at us.

  52. After reading this, and knowing it’s been an ongoing problem for decades, IT’S time to close down the VHA!
    It’s time to hold lawbreakers accountable. By throwing their asses in prison!

    #fuck Congress IF they can’t see the damage being done against veterans.

    1. P.S.
      Don’t y’all remember when Obama claimed ALL veterans were “terrorists”!

      1. Fake, Fake, Fake.
        Show us the actual quote.

      2. Close the VA, Medicare or the AMA et al is or may not be much better. Research some things before they are all scrubbed from public view.

        Ahem. Stop watching the “View” the “Chew” or CNN for your news.

        Obama calls Christians, Veterans, and Anti Abortionists Terrorists

        As bad as I dislike using any MSM for a resource.

        Yeah I had run ins with the VA cops and others on the road.

        Nothing like walking out to the parking lot to see your vehicle surrounded by orange cones and then being accused of being video taped by them for using cones to get a parking spot where the disabled can park. Then have to confront the cop with hand on his side arm drawing ready to pull it and threaten then escalate the situation over some lying game and arrogant cop. Then some VA ID wearing bus driver and other VA clowns joining in their fun.

        I carried my butt back into the VA and up to the security office demanding to see the video and confront the characters over a fifty dollar parking ticket. Oops no video of that or reports of that from the field. No bother, head on home and the ticket dismissed. And just added more fun to later games at the VA.

        Just before leaving the VA I spent a lot of money gearing up for high mileage visits to the big city and to Roudebush. Nothing like being hassled for puking cause of migraines at the side of the road, or having to stop and hit the weeds for an emergency pee then catching hell over it. Or getting help while barfing… ending up in a ditch, by boot or shin, hard to tell. Ha. Emergency stops to pee or barf, etc., must be illegal too and has been for twenty years. I bought camping gear, and rigged camp potty, emergency pop up privacy shelter, dash cam, medical alert, coolers, joined AAA, emergency meds, prep supplies enough for a weekend camp trip just to travel to the VA. Mainly due to LEOs, their suspicions, and some connections or reports to others via the VA establishment? Don’t dare deal with any of them during severe sugar issues either or if one who walks funny or they are reading your body language. Ya my get home and to deal with code enforcement clowns or some council person flashing a badge too. Illegal isn’t it? Lotta fun times over these issues.

        And then just one report I know of from the VA hitting the media for public consumption out of Indiana??? Congress is shit like all the rest and most certainly will not come to Indiana to really investigate anything. Just like all the other clowns in every agency and position out there.

      3. Here’s another article on the Obama Administration calling veterans terrorists.

      4. Obama no more “said” that than Trump “said” having sex was the same as serving in combat in Vietnam.

        Really, what we as Veterans should be looking at is not what is SAID or NOT SAID, but what is DONE or NOT DONE.

      5. @T – – – Yes, it was on C-SPAN. I still have a copy of the original DHS report squirreled away on some hard drives that I have kept over the years. Soon as I get my new computer, and ‘drive master’ unit – – – I will be able to plug those old HDD’s in and harvest the data from them into my current library. Roughly 12 Terabytes of data and saved articles dating back to the Desert Storm days.

        Not sure how soon that will be though, because right now – – – just as I was starting to get on my feet again after getting out of Hawaii, my wife is now in an ICU here in Texas, and we are possibly facing some really nasty medical bills that may cripple us for a few years. We shall see. Her condition is such that it is possible that I may be a bachelor again within the next two months. I sure hope I am wrong about that.

        Won’t be around for a while, but you can be sure that I will read Ben’s articles as can. Going to have a heavier than normal ‘administratium’ load as I deal with lawyers, financial types, social workers, doctors, etc. for the foreseeable future.

        See you folks when I see you! Stress such that after a five year abstinence – – – I bought a pack of Camels today. Burned three.

        Stay safe! Keep the Faith . . .

      6. JC, don’t mean to sound so cliche’ but thoughts, best hopes and prayers out to you and yours. Seriously hope you are wrong about the bachelor thing too after making the move and getting situated.

        Seems for some of us there is no ending of Murphy’s Laws, keeping the gremlins at bay or getting badly needed breaks from things, some people, or issues. Anything I can do or be a sounding board hit me up on FB or somehow. Seriously. Pity we all can’t be located in closer geographical areas.

      1. Yeah! Private care through Tri-West for all veterans. Service-Connected or not. That will be the end of the VA medical conditions cover-up to protect their stinking pocket books.
        I was told by a private doctor that my knee condition is not all hereditary. It is also environmental and more environmental than anything. My doctor has done knee replacements for years.
        But has never seen knees as bad as mine. A miracle the surgery was a success. The other knee needs done also. I am not even 65 years old. Both hips need replaced. The same
        stinking condition. Thank the contaminated water of Camp Lejeune Marine Corps Base for that. Semper Fi my ass!

      2. Crazy Elf, I do not put much stock in anything the Washington Post reports and writes about.

    2. Benjamin, so how is the AFGE Union correct with the arbritration that the VA broke the law about the VA exposing it’s employees who have had disciplinary action against them?
      Ben, this is also a known. In the private sector if physicians have malpractice lawsuits filed against them, they are exposed to the American public. Yes, physicians names are posted for all to view. After all, there are different websites that have credible reviews on physicians throughout this country. So why does the President of the AFGE union believe that the same type of information cannot be for view by the American Veterans? So why the Double Standard? VA employees are not special. If people are not held accountable, how can anyone or anything improve? How the VA improve if all is hidden? AFGE union David Cox says VA should focus on the delivery of quality care to the veterans and not shaming VA employees to promote lack of trust in the VA. Well, in order for any system to deliver quality anything and for the American citizens or the American Veterans to want to engage in the situations, transparency needs to be in place. A company or agency cannot have one without the other. So in my opinion both the arbritrator and the AFGE Union President are not correct.

      1. Benjamin, just wanted to let you and all know that the VA-VBA Burial Allowance department of the VA finally did come through with payment for the funeral expenses of my uncle who was just a few years older than me. He was a 100% service connected Navy veteran. In the recent past, I had spoken about him in Ben’s blog. The amount of time that it took for the VA to make a decision on the burial allowance claim and for them to make payment on the claim was 6.5 months. So yes Benjamin, the VA is improving. Slow as a turtle though. At least some accountability is now in the picture. Best.

      2. But, on the other hand, the VA does need to stop body slamming Veterans who are harmless and Veterans who are just advocating for themselves.

      3. In private sector, malpractice lawsuits regarding the amount paid out is open for public view. If the physician works with a big clinic or hospital, all of his or her employee peers will know the details of the disciplinary action such as the Malpractice lawsuits. So why is the AFGE Union President against the American Veterans knowing the truth about the VA providers who are treating them? Transparency is the answer for improved care. What is the difference? VA employees should be treated with transparency just like private sector physicians. Benjamin, just think disciplinary actions would not have to occur if all did their jobs right to begin with. Only in a perfect world.

      4. Angela, got any tips or sites that may be good for researching some state’s malpractice claims to those censured, etc. Used to find it easy enough for Indy but not for a few years now. And could find nothing about the same dentist contractor at the VA a person posted about being censured, and was told he had been locally but couldn’t find anything and the dental medical board wasn’t will to offer up any info or how to deal with that and one local and oral surgeon that refused xrays and files pertaining to that issue too. What a freaking mess this country or state is.

    3. Elf and T called it right on the money WRT the DHS classifying Veterans as ‘Right Wing Extremists and possible Terrorists’. Janet Napolitano had to publicly apologize for it. So, for all you doubters – – – here is more confirmation:


      1. Jim it was also discussed on CSPAN and were some videos complete with lists from those claiming to have list and watches us evil possible terrorist like the SPJL, ADLofBB (they control it all, collect data, train the gov/LEOs and activist too), ACLU, etc. Very bold and still no backlash from any VSOs or media. The good links I had on it of course are history/scrubbed like many others.

        Been accused of it to my face even at town meetings while discussing animal rights issues to kennel breeders, etc. One old blue hair representing the Humane Shelter and that of America and others openly declared we vets are too violent to have pets, dogs, and evil for being meat eaters, possible hunters to fishing. The scum bucket county attorney told me to shut up and remain seated and not question her when she stated the Humane Society and other groups had “top secret information about these issues and studies of us and could not release them publicly or presently” or get me a copy of such BS. Way different story on all those puppy dog and shelter commercials. Supposed to have been an open meeting for getting information and discovery of new laws. She let one secret slip, feral cats can’t survive winter months. Oh, and don’t feed nor water them it’s illegal. lol

        There was a report out there over the NDAA (national defense)and the domestic terror watch list with the provisions of such watch list including us vets were still on it. That video and site is gone too. Saying it was all passed along with enforcement and additions and changes to be made over it. Like enhancing red flag laws, etc. I dunno.

        Back OT.
        I’ve asked cops, went to their ‘cops night out’ fund raising. Talked to a cop I grew up with and changed drastically through it. Plus talking to some at the VA on out for a smoke, and some more.

        I’ve got nice replies and nasty ones. Ie, actions due to ‘training,’ ‘wanting to make it home to family, burn out, to some being new/green/young. The big ego.. authoritative issues, no need to be nice. Some on the edge or retirement, turned hard core and just don’t care, others fed up with dealing with a wide variety of vets with some being actually highly dangerous. Then on to the discussions of acting while on the Adrenalin buzz etc. To felony like stops with VA, DAV, stickers and such on vehicles over little like a light out or just a check point.

        I asked one younger cop coming in as I was walking out and asked him why all that just happened and the other one acted like he did. It was a simple because he can. Walked on. They guy I grew up with stated the same thing at times when I asked him why some things were done and said. “Because we can.”

        Ass holes want to blame vets? Had a hell of time getting to the VA & IU one evening due to road work and road closures in the big city. Ended up in a hood where a cop had been recently shot and killed. Gangland. Told by one dude I was in the wrong neighborhood and give me directions out and to the closest gas station, luckily. That gas station had just been robbed so had to by-pass that one too, oh well, big city love. Ask the VA cop outside about the surrounding work, blocks for Halloween, when leaving what the best route would be to get out of the city and dodge all the road work and bad spots. He said, “Do I look like a F-ing road map to you?” About the same treatment when needing a battery jump one evening. So we never know what kind of attitude or situation we are going to find ourselves in but there are those idiots out there or activist wanting to play games and put the blame where it doesn’t belong.

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