Going Hostile: VHA, Disruptive Behavior Committees and You

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VHA Disruptive Veteran

More veterans than ever are forced to check in with VA police prior to getting their health care, but few understand what happened and why.

I have been getting reports from across the country that more and more veterans are running afoul with VA medical health care professionals. A big portion of the conflicts center around perceived changes in VA prescriptive policies or refusals to treat.

Sadly, what can be a one hit wonder regarding an argument can result in your file getting flagged. Getting flagged can then force you into an embarrassing compromise where you must be escorted by VA police wherever you go.

I looked into this last night in light of all the problems affecting veterans getting health care in Phoenix. More then ever, it seems like VA has growing secret lists and secret databases where VA can know things about you but you do not get to be part of that club.

So last night, while digging, I found some explanations of what is going on.

38 CFR § 17 is all about patient issues at VHA. § 17.107 is all about conflicts titled VA RESPONSE TO DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOR OF PATIENTS.

This regulation in particular is questionable because it does not allow for the veteran to have some form of a hearing prior to being admonished for alleged behavior. It instead allows the veteran a chance to appeal only after a decision to restrict access has been made by the Chief of Staff or a designee.

VHA Directive 2010-053 really drills down into how VHA will now treat disruptive patients. VHA Handbook 1907.01 sets out how a veteran can request a change to their medical file, including removal of any flags.

VA OIG also issued a report last year called Management of Disruptive Patient Behavior at VA Medical Facilities. VA grew the mandate of § 17.107 into a program called the Behavior Threat and Management Program. VA also created Disruptive Behavior Committees (DBC) across the country at VHA facilities.

VA OIG identified some significant problems with the program. The primary issue is that VHA does not have a single definition of what “disruptive behavior” actually means. Therefore, the program is being administered more subjectively that what is appropriate.

“We found significant differences in how VHA facilities define disruptive behavior, document incidents and interventions, and employ interventions to prevent and/or minimize risk of further incidents. VHA does not have a comprehensive definition of what constitutes disruptive behavior. As a result, facilities have applied their own definitions, which are generally not consistent from facility to facility. The lack of a common definition and terminology diminishes VHA’s capacity to collect and analyze national data on disruptive behavior and identify system problems and training needs that could prevent or minimize disruptive behavior. VHA also has not established guidelines for what information facilities should document regarding disruptive incidents and how or where this information should be documented, and it is unclear what should be documented in a patient’s electronic health record so that providers have information needed for safe, quality health care. Lastly, facilities used a broad range of interventions to address disruptive behavior, all of which appeared to comply with the Federal regulation.”

VA now divides veterans who are deemed “disruptive” into Patient Record Flags split between Category I and Category II.

“Category I PRFs are used to identify patients who are high-risk for violent or disruptive behavior and are shared across all known VHA treating facilities. Category II PRFs are used to identify patients who are at risk for other reasons, such as drug seeking behavior, history of wandering, or spinal cord injuries. Category II PRFs are not shared across facilities; they are local flags.”

So what do you think – since VA is mandated to provide health care for veterans, should it also have such loose ability to restrict that care?

 

 

 

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Mick J Smith
Mick J Smith

The place to start is determining the cause of the behavior that resulted in the flag. I think you’ll find that most of these people who got their records flagged did not have a history of disruptive behavior outside the VA. Was this simply a result of frustration?

Ron Nesler
Ron Nesler

Another example of VA arrogance and disregard for basic human dignity. These high flying parasites are so far above the law, that it makes them giddy..

Glenn Proper
Glenn Proper

The abhorrent behaviors from VA employees are not above the law. The individual veteran needs to take such violations to heart and prosecute the assaults thru all legal means.

Stephen J MGeady
Stephen J MGeady

The VA is Gov;t,Big and Bloated.I have been appealing MY C&P since 84 and just recently got Legal help. Just waiting to see what happens. Hope they Don’t take it out on My Chap 31. The reason I say this is because they can be very Vindictive.Just a thought,I hope these people get there act together, Supposed to be working for us,not against.

rhonda
rhonda

Patients do not realize that in some cases C&P is completely separate from the VA Medical clinic and hospitals. Some of the C&P doctors are contracted doctors hired by a completely different company.. It make as difference if they are VA employed or Contracted..

anobersver
anobersver

Rhonda is totally correct. Many facilities have outside contracotrs performing C+P exams, and nowadays, sadly, almost ALL C+P exams will be done by QTC/VES/MES, and other organizations, which will throw more bad gas on the fire and further lengthen the claims process.

If you are denied a C+P rating by a regional office, it ends there. It is NOT transmitted anywhere else, and it cant be ‘vindictive’… why? No one would know, other than the RO who denied it. And a rating decision is not part of your medical record in the hospital CPRS system.

Odd.. why do you keep getting denied? Perhaps the claim has little to no merit?

Oswaldo
Oswaldo

I had a situation with my PC at my local VAHC clinic in which I had MRI’s, Xray’s, and EMG’s done. Also, 20 years of injections in my spine etc. Anyways, Im at a point with my service connected injuries where im totally disabled. I can barely walk or lift and twist without being in massive pain for days and can’t get a good nights sleep except when my body is so tired I just crash. I asked my VA PC to have either her or the Nuerologist to officially put in my medical record my disabled status…all of a sudden she jumped up out of her chair and desk, ran to the door of the room in the clinic and started ranting about how she don’t do that, she wont do that, that some other VA doctor to do that, all the while acting like she was in danger or something. Needless to say it was wierd, terribly disrespectful to me and had me wondering if I had said or done something to scare the be-jesus out of her. I got scared and thought maybe she lost it or she was gonna have me removed or something … it was scary and totally had mI had done something wrong. Now had I said something more im sure she wouldve flagged me. I didnt say another word and finished up my medical routine che k up or whatevet it was. But these are the issues we fave as veterans and ee dont get to challenge or have a means to make issues like this public or put on record. She couldve easily had me flagged with a lie or something.g

bruce wallace
bruce wallace

Oswaldo, you said it right; as soon as you ask the VA to do something that has to do with documenting your actual condition, they fall to pieces on you. They are afraid you might get some additional care or benefit that they actually want for themselves.

bruce wallace
bruce wallace

I am not saying there is any actual memo floating around the VA, but if there was, it might look like this: “In an effort to cut costs in delivering medical and other services to disabled veterans, you are required to follow this new procedure. If possible, when a service-connected disabled veteran seeks service, make attempts to provoke the veteran. Do so in a manner that will make it appear you and other involved staff are justified in calling the police. We want to discourage all veterans from seeking care or benefits, because this will lighten our works loads and allow more funding for our pay and benefits. The higher the service-connection disability, the more important it is to provoke the veteran in order to get them arrested. The idea is to get them arrested, taken to jail, then terminate their benefits because they are incarcerated. If you can find a way to get the veteran shot and killed, that is even better. You may even be eligible for a significant bonus for creating a situation that leads to a false arrest. A few important tips: remember to target veterans with PTSD as well as those with head injuries. Remember, those PTSD cases are actually the easiest to provoke, and it is easy to claim they were having a flashback. Play it up, pressure them, taunt them, humiliate them, and you might even provoke real violence or at least screaming and yelling. Veterans with prosthetic limbs, those confined to wheel chairs or using canes can be called things like, “slow”, “lazy”, and “faking”. You can also make an effort to get in their way, trip them, and maybe even take their prosthetic or wheelchair that they might be used as weapons. If you were able to somehow make it look reasonable to confiscate a prosthetic device from a disabled veteran there will be a special bonus for doing so. Be creative, passive-aggressive, rude, impatient, show disrespect, and try creative tactics like name-calling. Names like “coward”, “free-loader”, “burden on the taxpayer”, or “loser” are suggested, but use any names or expressions you can think of. If you want more pay, better benefits, big bonuses, and less work, “do your best to abuse those vets”. And, “Try to get a vet shot today!” Thank you for your cooperation in this important policy.

anobersver
anobersver

The above is nonsense and fraudulent, and an embarrassment to anyone who is willing to believe that hogwash.

bruce wallace
bruce wallace

I was not having any trouble with VA police until I made the mistake of asking the VA for Regular Aid and Attendance years ago. Since then, the VA has outright stalked me and my wife, trying to provoke a situation to get me arrested or shot. My case is common in the sense that the VA misuses their police all the time with all sorts of veterans. But, mine is worse because of the new way they are now “officially” using the threat of arrest on me. I have a bad case of PTSD and other injuries, and many times VA doctors, nurses, therapists and administrators have told me and my wife that I qualify for this Aid and Attendance benefit. They then say they will not sign the form, while playing mind games on us, telling my wife it is her job to be my unpaid caregiver because of our wedding vows, “in good times and bad, in sickness and in health.” The ultimate came late last year when I was supposed to get my first real PTSD therapy session after years of abuse by the VA. Instead of being at the PTSD clinic, I was directed to the San Francisco VA Hospital’s “Criminal Investigation Division” office. There, a VA psychiatrist, and his partner, a VA doctoral level Social Worker, initially pretended I was going to get PTSD therapy. But, as soon as I tried to say a word about my issues, the cause of my PTSD, and details on how it happened, they stopped me. Both doctors then told me and my wife that they are “mandated reporters” to the US Department of Defense and if I spoke to them or anyone about any details of what actually caused my PTSD they would report me. They said this was because the nature of my military service was classified and it was illegal for me to ever discuss my issues with anyone. Why didn’t they tell me that before we drove almost 4 hours into a big city, after being promised that this therapy was going to be the “golden opportunity”, a very special program where I could finally get help? The whole thing was a set-up, a scam, and a gigantic lie, the kind the VA tells veterans everyday for a living. When I tried to talk they kept warning me to be quiet, and they were clearly trying to provoke me and fabricate a way to get me arrested right there. Indeed, the obvious idea is to get me arrested and put in prison in order to cut off my VA compensation and block me from getting Regular Aid and Attendance. The VA is claiming that it is illegal for me to get medical care and therapy, and that, oddly enough, turns out to be true. But, again, why didn’t they tell me that before we made that long trip? When you try to contact the SFVA Hospital administrator’s office, you get transferred to the Patient Advocate, who either does not answer, does not return messages, or doesn’t know what to say about this. So, I have personal experience with the VA misusing police, and my case is strong proof of their motivations.

anobersver
anobersver

Sadly, the folks who tell you that you may need A+A have no input whatsoever into you getting it. You need to see your VSO, or apply online at VBA. A C+P exam will likely be set up, if you meet the guidelines. If you are SC, and your SC medical issues require A+A, then you might get that additional benefit. Otherwise, it’s quite common when your providers (who know NOTHING about C+P benefits) will give u bad info, then refuse to fill out DBQ’s or other paperwork. If you have a dozen medical issues that are NOT SC, you wont likely get A+A. It has to be for SC issues.

Dan F
Dan F

VA providers have available to them on line training in dealing with veterans who have PTSD. Of course, we do not know the numbers who participate.

Mike Ainsworth Combat Medic 1st Bde 101st Abn Div A Co 1/327 Abn Inf '66-'67
Mike Ainsworth Combat Medic 1st Bde 101st Abn Div A Co 1/327 Abn Inf '66-'67

Your all correct about the VA Medical! Anyone telling you the VA is improving is either VA management, a NSO or VSO (at least here in Northern California) or just a bigot, bully prejudiced mikeoscartangohotelechoromeofox uniformcharliekeloechcoromeo! I have complained to Congressman George Miller and other people (several times) that could do something about the way this VA Medical and Vet Center in Concord, California Team Leader treat’s certain people that were not in his branch of service and the chicken shit he and his cohort’s do to veteran’s but, George Miller and Mike Thompson just collect their pay check as do their people and screw every veteran that they are supposed to help! FTVA!

Stephen J MGeady
Stephen J MGeady

I hear you brother. I am a ret Master chief(GMCM 69-95) also PBR 69-71,and for the life Of meI could never understand How people that are supposed to be there for you,turn on you like you are a criminal. Years ago when I had to go down to the VA at 23rd St in NYC,one of the people there Said His main job was to get 3 out of 10 Veterans so frustrated they would never come back.I asked Him how he sleeps at night. Didn’t faze him one bit.If he is still there He is probably upper management now. Kind of scary. Be well.

Doug m.
Doug m.

I have no comment about most of the stories told so far. All I can really is say wow!

Oswaldo
Oswaldo

Then there are only 2 attorneys with the balls enough to take it to the DVA in the country, as far as I know it is Benjamin and Chris. I’ve been saying for years that the only way to even the playing field for Veterans is by making it legal to take these asshole to court and file lawsuits against their asses. Congress also needs to make this federal department accountable for the positive and negative aspects of their decisions.

George
George

I was wondering why my doctor tried to provoke me. Holy Veterans Crap Vatman we’ve been defecated on.

James Brown
James Brown

can some one give me the name of an attorney that will file suit [email protected]

E. Knight
E. Knight

I was in a car accident two winters ago and required my files to be transferred from the VA to my lawyer. I had been getting sandbagged for treatment already for a nerve injury in my back recieved during a large fall. This was the cause of my medical separation from the USMC. The VA “couldn’t prove” there was an injury despite the fact my shoulder blades no longer sit correctly and they would not pay for a Nerve Conduction Study due to costs on an injury that “might not be there.”
There was a huge explosion of action when my lawyer began requesting my records for study after the car accident. I was treated like a criminal and with disgusting disrespect for AND I QUOTE “not warning the VA that my records would be needed.” I as well as my lawyer have always wondered why it was such a fuss to receive, what should have been a simple record transfer. What needed to be scrubbed off before transfer or hidden away?
Also since the VA knows I see a lawyer regularly they have tipped toed around me and I have since received a conduction study that has *gasp* showed multiple injuries to the nerve pathways in my upper back. I share this story in hopes that maybe the knowledge of being closely connected to a lawyer may help Veterans receive better care. They want to scare us well, here’s MY ace. THIS SHOULDN’T BE THE WAY. But I hope my experience can at least help one of us. Semper Fi my brothers and sisters in arms.
LCPL Knight, Ethan, A USMC

Dave
Dave

I have resisted, for financial reason, getting a lawyer involved. NOW I’m seeing, or it appears, that you have to legal threats to get attention. I know that McSally got NO traction when contact the Tucson VA on my behalf, and after seeking care on my dime, McSally’s office won’t even give lip service…and forget about McCain or Flake’ offices.

Any one have suggestions on VA attorneys that understand our plight and need for affordability?

James
James

I have had this done to me flagged for disruptive behavior, this was done by an employee, whom I used to work with at the va. This employee did so in retaliation for something, I said about the way she was running a certain committee. The employee told the va I would come into the clinic at least twice a month and become disruptive. The va took her word about what happened and punished me. This was done with the blessing of the OIG, they contacted the FBI and my local police department. I requested that the VA provide me, with all written evidence they used to determine that I had been disruptive, since they were told I would come in twice a month And Become disruptive, there should be incident reports (right) !. The va’s response there is no evidence of you being disruptive every! , but has been collaborated! ?. By whom? . They VA never let me face my accuser or honor any of my civil or constitutional rights. Dav, senator Bennett, Bob McDonald office were no help, they made inquiries. Those inquiries were answered by no other than by the very same employee that made the allegations! . That was good enough for the dav, senator Bennett and Bob McDonald office. They never once asked for the proof or demanded the proof. How can a veteran prove their innocent, when no one forces them to provide the evidence used. If they had done this, the va would have to admit, AN injustice has occurred and I would have been vindicated! .but no, I have to live every day wondering is today the day that same employee or her cronies tell another lie and it results in my arrest. The va plainly stated, If we EVER hear again that you are reported being disruptive again, YOU will be Arrested, Federal Charges placed on you and you will be banished from ALL VA care. How can they get away with such threats and not have to prove, I had ever at anytime been disruptive in the first place! . The Director of the Denver vamc, admits there is no evidence, also stating my records were Never coded for disruptive behavior, nor were MY records Red Flagged and there was never a formal investigation! .this in it’s self is another lie, they did code my records for disruptive behavior and my records were red flagged and even after 14 years, their flagging is effecting my life and care. Does anyone in power care about veterans whom are wrongly accused! . NOPE, Good job Senator Bennett, Good job DAV and to you BOB MCDONALD for letting the va harm veterans and you not making the VA to show and provide your offices with the proof! And not making them accountable for their Evil deads! . It’s never to late to correct an injustice, IF you really do care about injustice! !…

Mike
Mike

I have commented before on this subject and at the VA Clinic I try not to go to in Martinez, California they know me very well, decades worth of FUBAR treatment and I do complain right then and there especially when I see the Patient Advocate Ruben Soto and other lack luster failures that come up to me or suddenly walk by me. I have been in an ambush and what I see is the head shrink’s with their died blond hair in Gerry Curl’s leg’s crossed and notebook and waiting for me to vent when I see this useless piece of dung walk by. Normally, I say, “Look everyone, your tax dollar NOT AT WORK!” in a loud voice! I have done this a few times as well as told a VA Chaplin to, “get the fuck out of my face and I don’t want to hear your fucking lies!” He walk’s right up to me, and start’s telling how great the VA is blah, blah and blah! Really is a game that they play because they do not give a care about you or me, they play games like this hoping that they can catch you in the act, put you on a list, flag your records or worse put you in VA jail! My fellow veteran’s do not put one finger on them because you will end up in a Federal Detention Center for two year’s…a friend of mine did poke a doctor in the chest with one finger and ended up prison! The VA does a lot of talking as we all know, they have not changed one bit since “Bob” took over except to step up their carnage and it seems to make no difference to those that are last in their class because, they keep on doing what they do best and that is, denying those that have walked the walk of combat and have the PH, denying those that have been in combat that have serious medical conditions and those that served in the United States Military and were ready and willing to go into harms way and fortunate for them they didn’t have too! As for me I want to sue them for what they have done to me. I was wounded while serving as a Combat Medic with the 1st Bde 1/327 Abn Inf 101st Abn Div in Vietnam May 14t, 1967 and I was medically retired for the wounds I received and they treat me and every veteran I know like crap! Decade’s of crap….and they are looking for 1.200 more fool’s to dick us around…I chose (unless the VA calls me) outside doctors, not the failed “Veteran Choice,” either! Since not taking all the VA medication which had me at 279 lbs. I now weight 209 lbs. We Veteran’s whom are in the “system,” have to go to our doctor’s at the VA when they call but, like myself I won’t ever let them touch me again because of the fact, “I do not have any sort of faith especially now, because of a faulty dental cleaning in November of last year has put my entire mouth in ache and sensitivity which keeps from using my CPAP because I have sleep APENA. It took ten year’s after my half a dozen sleep studies to get the machine. I guess it is part of that them, you know, “DENY UNTIL YOU DIE!” I have shrapnel in my brain and other metal in my body and a primary care doctor by the name of Rey Alba who I have had for several year’s wanted to have me get a MRI, WTF! On that note I changed doctor’s and will not have them do any more that take my temperature…Stay strong and keep fighting! The women and men that served in the United States Military do pay a huge price and do deserve the best in medical care and other benefit’s that are frequently denied!

Sue
Sue

I have recently had the pleasure of being placed on the Dayton VAMC Disruptive Behavior list – I like many others have tried to reason with the “management”, however, they forgot to inform me early on that as a “Volunteer” and a “Veteran” you lose the basic United States freedoms of Speech and Press! I, among other allegations, am accused of “using social media” (Facebook) to try and get some insight on how to deal with a concern I had at the Dayton VAMC – there are of course many “allegations” – mostly started with a partially true statement and then completed with their fabrications – I have written initially to President Obama and Secretary McDonald with copies to my Senator and US Representative – then after those letters were sent the VA’S next step, which occurred on this past Tuesday, was to call me out in the VA lobby (police present) and hand me a copy of the letter that was at the Post Office – the letter placing on there esteemed special Disruptive Behavior list! When does its nonsense stop and what can we do to not only stop this but prevent it from happening again?

James
James

Sue, did they provide you with any evidence of you being disruptive, did anyone reply to your letters, Bob McDonald, anyone! ,what did they do to you. This illegal activities are getting way out of hand! , Ben do you have any suggestions on how we can stop this outrageous tactic. VA did the same thing to me and even told senators office there was no type of evidence, that confirms that anything ever happened to justify their actions! Sue keep writing letters to more senators and tell them to make the VA provide them with the evidence they used against you.

Ericka
Ericka

using DBC for retaliation needs to stop! lying PT Advocates, Head RN claimed stalking SES when they are 3-hrs from me! local VA refuses to do their damn jobs! sent a to a Choice/ fee-base Dr got a prescription next day go to the VA to have it filled. Life threatening if not handled Urgently! Wound Care not able to no openings etc 🙁 they originally no help anyways! go to Urgent care Dr there says oh specialty drug your VA-PCP has to do it. after 6-hhrs told cant get it! oh use your TriCare WRONG VA sent ME VA gets drug! not setting precedent for them for me or any other vet that comes after me! After 6-hrs I have to tell the VA Staff their damn jobs AGAIN!. this is more retaliation form last email sent to all Wash VA Executives to my states US Senators n US Congress person, when I named names most from SES, n others too w dates , times, names etc on illegal stuff on refusing to treat my medical problem which I was med ret from! sent via certified letter UPS! not dates of actions or anything just is DBC not allows to talk to but 1 person, who by the way put me on a DBC w police claiming something wrongly illegally, but refused to admit wrong doing as I was on the US Senators local office at time n date they claimed I did something that I have never done or would even do! They , VA DBC make no mention how long flag is what full actions dates n times etc! only x has happened warned can only talk w x person no more than x2/week for 15-mins who that person has lied bad in past w rest in place in past to them ! TRUST LOST in a flash never can be earned back their lies have been so bad always! I refuse to talk to that person! the one time I absolute had to… they did nothing then 2-months after I spoke w that VA Staff a MH person calls me saying I needed them! great wake me up when I got home late night before! when I do not want VA MH Services due to lies written in my VA medical records many times other vets information as well! abuse of power needs to stop! Bigger part they, VA Staff, upset I ratted them out to Wash DC higher ups n even call Wash DC VA Executives as well! Record flag when I call even for appts you have to cal xx person I say NO! make appt etc! I do not want this VA only pay for what I need let me go out in town for everything as this VA cannot even help me on 90% of my problems, medications about it!

James
James

Yes this has to stop, they are handing out disruptive complaints to veterans like candy!

In other words any AND ALL veterans, must be aware that if they talk about something that is amiss and the employee does not like what they said “YOU will be reported to the disruptive committee and you have no defence against it! At any time!

Ericka
Ericka

now I have recently discovered 85% of my radiology images have been deleted! There is a VA over 20+year Employee willing to testify they were there Feb 2015 as I have them! they were there this past summer to when I had to get more xrays 🙁 he and others there checked int he archives etc everywhere! I have called 1 of my US Senators etc on this matter n the Dir too; the current flagging I have not been able to get a medical appointment nor any consults required for proper medical care to date now since last week of Sept. 2015 oh, not long after the 3rd VA-OIG showed up on the SrExecStaff on them!

Rey Rivera
Rey Rivera

I was recently told that I had a red flag on my record. Not knowing about the flags, I asked what it meant. One person told me it indicated VIP. VIP for what ? No answer, then I met with a claims rep. She inadvertently said something the red flag. She looked nervous and asked if I ever had an encounter with an employee. Not that I could remember. I’ve asked questions on behalf of other veterans in order to help them.

To this day, although I know a lot of the security and my PC and the Director, I still don’t know why I’m red flagged. I’ve never asked the PC or Director simply because I don’t really care.

Based what I read today, I will make a point to ask,.

James
James

You make sure it’s in written evidence and only verbally leaves no paper trail.

You should care about it. They can cause you a lot of problems in the future.even have you arrested federal charges and banishment from all VA care.

They used hearsay when they flagged me.changed their stories three times and had no proof of it ever happening.

If you speak with them record it and or have someone with you. They may use a scare tatic to get you to stop trying to get the information and never stop trying write your congressmen.it may take years for them to slip up and the truth reveled.

Even then having the proof.seems no one cares.what they are doing to veterans using this illegal judiciary committee.where they are judge.jury and prosecutor and you the veteran has no counsel.no nothing to defend yourself.

Remember many veterans are going through5the same thing and when we finely get someone to listen.we need all the paper trail evidence to prove our point.that it’s unconstitutional and denighs us of our civil and constitutional rights to a fair trial.

james brown
james brown

first thing first, find out how long the flag has been on your record, because you can request removal after one year & good luck with that , somebody somewhere felt threaten and they placed the flag on your record, plus you have to put in the request at the place of ownership, meaning if you visit different V.A”s you have to find out who own the flag, & when the next DBC meeting is ………..funny there’s no Behavior committee to put there ass in .

james brown
james brown

if you ever wonder why you are being treated the way you are , is a good time to check your record, all you have to do is go to the next waste of Govt. funds Patient Rep !!! they will tell you if you have a flag on record , I’ve had a Cat#1 Flag on my record since 2011, that will be removed in 2017 , I don’t give a shit about a Flag after while they gone call me the United Nation, I’m going to have so many Flags, you not going to treat nor talk to me no any kind of way,

Johnny Ortiz
Johnny Ortiz

AF Ret….(2010)Wow! I got home today and there was a certified letter waiting for me from the VA..I thought ok some news from the VA certified, better open it. Well to my surprise as I read and understood what i ws reading, a great big [email protected]%#^ !!!!! Came up in one of those comic bubbles. How i. The world did me requesting a new doctor in anyway form shape or fashion make me out to be a “Disruptive Bully? And on top of that want me to sign som agreement about some judge, tried, and hanged verdict trial taht went on without the accused being able to face his accuser….????????
After reading the letter the 15th time, I just knew I had some kind of lawsuit, because there is no way I did anything wrong by asking “MY newly assigned health care provider, whom I have only met with once, since the long hiatus of not having a provider for months, if I had been diagnosed with Hypertension?” This lady freaked all the way out, threw her hands in the air screaming i cant amswer that and she don’t do anything with disablity stuff, cant quite remeber the doctor term she used, but then she screamed that; “she don’t have to take this kind of behavior from me” and pushed away from her little rolling desk, and left the room… My wife, who witnessed this entire ritual, was a gasp! I immediately Requested another change of Doctor form, having filled one out the first time she and I met about her lack of not knowing my medical history. Knowing I had an appointment with her months prior and she failed to know anything about me before seeing me. I thought to myself then she don’t care enough about me to even look over my medical history as This is her initial visit with me…
Imagine my surprise as I discovered I’m not the only one this has happed to, as I searched the Internet for any lawsuits against the VA…I found the same stories, there is no way Veterans from all over are reporting the exact same reactions for no reason….there has got to be some way to CLASS ACTION them…some one has to knw a good lawywer?????

Glenn Proper
Glenn Proper

Record each and every outburst from any VA employee.
It is perfectly within your right to do so

natevazquez
natevazquez

I am a Marine Corps infantry vet that served in OEF and OIF. I’m service connected for PTSD and TBI. In 2009, I called and complained to the Long Beach VAMC patients’ rights’ advocate about poor service I had received. I said, “Stuff like this is why so many veterans are killing themselves.” They initiated a health and welfare check for suicidality that caused the Orange County Sheriff to send out a SWAT team because I’m an infantry marine and combat vet- huge overkill. I had a standoff with them that was all over the news because I wasn’t suicidal and I didn’t agree with them trying to come in my home when I was a danger to myself and hadn’t broke the law. I finally agreed to come out and was 5150d to the Long Beach VAMC, the same VAMC that initiated a health and welfare for my complaint. I was immediately told by psych ward staff that higher ups in the VA were mad at me for all the bad publicity. They gave me some pamphlets that said i wouldn’t be secluded, restrained or forcibly medicated unless i was a danger to myself or others and all other options were exhausted. I was then told that I would be secluded to a solitary room for 24 hours with no books or magazines. I was very bored. I did push-ups and jumping jacks. The head psychiatrist called me into a small conference room with a video camera adjacent to mine. There was four other staff in the room waiting, including three security guards. The psychiatrist told me that my behavior was agitated, and told me I had to take the pills in a small cup he was holding. I told him i wasn’t agitated, just bored. I asked what the pills were, and what the side effects were. The psychiatrist became very agitated. He said if I didn’t take the pills, he would call VA police. I didn’t, so he called. The cops came into the psych ward fully armed with pistols and tasers. They already had mace cans and batons out. The doctor said he’d give me one more chance. I refused. They began macing me, batonning me and stomping me, including my head. I was injected with ativan and strapped to a bed with a spit hood over my head. I was left that way for 8 hours. I was in the psych ward for a few weeks. When I got out, I resumed going to appointments and groups. Then I got the behavior flag letter in the mail saying I had to check in with police, submit to searches of my person and belonging and be escorted to my appointments. I was never charged with any crime. I said it was a violation of my 4th Amendment rights, so I refused. Then, VA police arrested at the Long Beach VAMC for trespassing. Long beach police thought it was ridiculous. They actually advocated for me to the LA DA. The DA dismissed the trespassing charge. As I was about to be released from the Long Beach jail, the VA amended the charges to Assault on police, attempted theft police weapon (even though weapons aren’t allowed in psych ward in California), injuring a federal employee, disorderly conduct and failure to obey a police officer. I spent weeks in twin towers jail (the worst) before my family was able to raise bail. I fought the case for over a year. When my lawyer tried to subpoena the video footage, the VA sent a letter saying it was “routinely destroyed”. I was up against several felonies and 20 years in prison. While I was fighting the case, the VA wouldn’t let me see any of my doctors and I wasn’t getting any of my meds. I was unmedicated, very angry, very depressed and very suicidal. I ended up taking a deal that has made me a felony (resisting arrest) to this day. I never did anything wrong, I was just beat down by VA cops for refusing meds and then arrested for refusing to submit to a search. My lawyer said I can’t get it overturned because I took a deal (and now it was so long ago). I can’t get a job, I have a hard time getting housing. I regularly get fucked with by police when they run my id and see my record. And I am still unable to get treatment decent treatment from the VA. I’ve made some bad choices, but the VA really ruined my life. Sorry this was so long. It was somewhat cathartic.

natevazquez
natevazquez

*wasn’t a danger

James Gallegos
James Gallegos

I live in Colorado. Any veteran in Colorado that has been accused of disruptive behavior by the VA

Please contact ken buck’s office and please tell them your experence.

I called today and told his rep about how the VA is acussing veterans of disruptive behavior and punishing veterans at will. !

Also told how the disruptive committee does not require proof of any disruptive behavior (period)

His office in Greeley Colorado would like to hear from you. Rhw rep advised me that their office has been contacted by other veterans

Who Have told them About how the VA in Colorado is acussing them of disruptive behavior. Just because they were not happy with their care. !

Legislation. Must be passed to stop this illegal act of VA thinking they are part of the United State’s legal system

And have the right to accuse and then punish veterans at will. !

Doing so without proof or giving veterans no avenue to defend themselves.

Veterans are being attacked because of disgruntled employees not like a veteran for whatever reason.

The VA must be stopped and the disruptive committee abolished through legislation and ken buck’s office is willing to help

Now is your chance to be heard and corrective action completed to stop patient abuse and give releaf to veterans whom have been falsely accused.

Now is our chance to give our elected officials the Memo. That they never received. So they can have information on how this effects a veterans well being !

Please take the time. Even if you don’t live in Colorado. Contact his office and let them know this problem exist nation wide. !

Help. Stop veterans Abuse !!!!

glennpro2016
glennpro2016

I personally, have bee verbally assaulted ad threated numerous times by health care “providers” at VAMC Martinsburg West Virginia. After the last assault, my health record was flagged for disruptive behavior.

I am now afraid for my security. I have asked for the VA police to escort me to the appointments to ensure that I am not abused again, The police have declined to escort me to my appointments.

Due to my injuries, which the assigned physicians have virtually refused to treat, it is very difficult for me to press the case of needed physical security.

I am entering a stage of recovery that may, possibly, allow me to petition for the needed security during my visits to the government facility.

It is a very sad state of affairs that a rogue federal agency has devolved to a state which the patrons, ie: veterans are afraid for their own security from what tacitly amounts to conditioned thugs.

If any one else has had similar experience, please contact me so that we can join I a campaign to brig these rogue government agents to accountability.

glennpro2016
glennpro2016

Additionally

Due to the rogue nature of the VHA In regards to the negligent care and malfeasance of certain individuals within the employ of the Veterans Administration, it is highly advisable for ALL veteran patients to record AND document, officially thru the constructed system, ALL encounters.

USE the TOOLS that have bee legislated. It is the OLY way to expose the corruption ad abuse.

If ANYONE has ANY questions about the best way to proceed with such safeguard conduct, please contact me for cosult

DON’T SURRENDER

MY COUTRYMEN DESREVE BETTER

ABNPFDRJOE
ABNPFDRJOE

Can you elaborate on what you mean “USE the TOOLS that have bee legislated. It is the OLY way to expose the corruption ad abuse.
If ANYONE has ANY questions about the best way to proceed with such safeguard conduct, please contact me for cosult”

Not sure what you your talking about. I ask because I too need help to record and document the abuse I have and continue to receive.

Glenn
Glenn

For each incident, make a formal, written complaint. If the complaint is not acted upon. Take it to the next level in their chain of command. Have your complaint signed and dated by whoever receives it. Keep a copy for your records.

Be honest and forthcoming with your complaint.
The VA employees are hired to serve your needs. Do not tolerate abuse or assaults.

ABNPFDRJOE
ABNPFDRJOE

Glenn, thanks for the quick response. I get it, thought perhaps you knew of a VA WEB base complaint system, which is not a bad ideal, kind of like a “How’s my driving” sticker. I’m tired of their fake signs; Were here for you, We want to or We do provide you with the best possible care/support. If worker would just do their job, we would be fine. We do not need them to care, just be professional and do your job! Just like we did, just like we were expected to, or pay the consequences! Which they have none! Thanks Glenn

Glenn
Glenn

The mandate for VHA health services is to provide Compassionate, Quality, Respectful services. It is their duty to provide competent care. It should be expected. If they received a written complaint each time an employee failed to deliver on those promises the VA would have to shift focus from the things they are used to trying to cover up.

Don’t take the poor services personally. The individuals need to be brought to responsibility for their actions.
Only you can make a point of the poor services they have provided to you. Don’t expect anyone else to do it.

Nick
Nick

Im a veteran, never been in any real trouble, at least not for anything I’ve actually done. I was trying to get help from the VA at one point, and the guy helping me was telling me they could help. Then out of nowhere he said they couldn’t do anything. The guy was about a couple months from retiring from the VA. He ended up taking a point I was trying to make and twisted it, then had the cops tracking me down and they harassed me and threatened me. I was then forced to stay at a hospital and clinic for 3 days. The bills I got from the that were 10000 dollars. 5k for sitting in the hospital for three hours. Then another 5k for the 3 day stay in a mental ward. The thing and point I was trying to say was simple, ” if I went and robbed a bank or killed someone I would be given food and shelter”, which was what the VA said they would help with so I could get on track. They will provide it for drug addicts and criminals but not disabled veterans. That was the point I was making. The VA counselor said I was going to go to the VA and kill people after I had said I would just sleep in my car outside the VA until someone can help. After all that I am no longer allowed to go to the VA without a cop following me around, and obviously I hate cops after my experience with them and the chief of police telling me he is going to do everything he can to ruin my life. He then tried to discredit my service in the marine corp where I had did mortuary affairs in iraq. I have not gone back to the VA for help since, and they would not provide the phone call where I allegedly made threats, though I know I did not. I have serious issues and can’t even get help because of this, and if anything it has made them all worse.

Dale
Dale

I had pcp’s nurse call me at home and get belligerent with me. I told her the same thing multiple times and she would interrupt and tell I was wrong. I called the nurse manager about her and the nurse manager had her write a letter for the disruptive behavior committee. The phone call was recorded, but the VA management refused to listen to it as apparently the employee is always right even if they are wrong.

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