Veterans Affairs Dog Abuse

An animal rights group accused the Department of Veterans Affairs of dog abuse including conducting experiments like inducing heart attacks.

For decades, VA has been accused of experimenting on veterans without much fanfare. Now, an animal rights group is highlighting problems with VA experiments conducted, not on veterans this time, but on dogs, amounting to dog abuse.

The group, White Coat Waste Project (Project), focuses on taxpayer-funded animal experiments. They say the experiments are being conducted at various VA facilities with the most disturbing being at McGuire VA in Richmond, Virginia.

Dog Abuse – Three Dogs Dead

The group is fired up over the death of three dogs that died from “sloppy, incompetent surgeries” amounting to dog abuse.

Of course, this outcome would be a good day for most veterans harmed by VA clinicians and trainees. Only three dogs have died from what veterans deal with every day?

The Project also accused VA of being too secretive about its treatment of dogs in experiments including inducing heart attacks, invasive brain-damaging surgeries, and mutilating stomachs to evaluate other matters.

Basically, the Project has accused VA of doing to animals what researchers are occasionally accused of perpetrating against veterans.

What About Experiments On Veterans, Servicemembers?

Meanwhile, veterans are still fighting for benefits after being experimented on years ago while in the military. Out of the military, these veterans were also subject to various research experiments by VA doctors across the country previously including lobotomies.

RELATED: VA Clinician Accused Of Experimenting On Gay Veterans

Some readers may recall VA recently opposed a bill aimed at making it easier for some veterans to get access to benefits after being experimented on with mustard gas.

RELATED: VA Testing Drugs On War Veterans

Portland VA was recently caught engaged in unethical and possibly illegal kidney experiments involving veterans without consent.

RELATED: Edgewood Arsenal Human Experiments

Just this month, VA boasted about its opioid reduction program where it whimsically withheld opioids from veterans after getting those same veterans addicted. It also withheld opioids from veterans who needed the painkillers.

RELATED: Former VA Doctor Accused Of Spine Experimentation

Outrage Over Dog Abuse

As for the dog experiments, according to coverage from Military Times:

“The abuses are consistent with McGuire VAMC’s disturbing track record of oversight and management failures,” group officials said in a letter to the VA Inspector General, VA leaders and key congressional committees released Tuesday.

Lawmakers working with the group said they’re disturbed by the accusations.

“Just as the VA was held accountable for delivering subpar care to our nation’s veterans, it should answer for the possible abuse of animals and waste of taxpayer funds on haphazard research,” said Rep. Ed Royce, R-Calif., in a statement.

“Members of both parties have asked the federal government to take a closer look at the animal research it administers, in an effort to save innocent animals from harm and reduce expenses when viable alternatives to animal-based testing exist.”

Rep. Dina Titus, D-Nev., called the reports an “apparent pattern of dog abuse,” pointing to serious leadership problems for the Virginia facility.

“Taxpayers should not fund experiments that abuse animals or violate the law,” she said.

VA says the research conducted on the dogs is geared to test treatments to help veterans suffering from diabetes, brain function and PTSD.

What do you think? Dog lovers are fired up. Others, including VA researchers, believe the experiments are necessary.

Source: http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/va-medical-experiments-dogs-wcw

154 COMMENTS

  1. We do this to benefit veterans? Funny that. Since nothing else they have ever done, was to ever benefit a veteran. Let’s see, NO FUCKING SERVICE CONNECTION FOR YOU. Let’s botch a k9 heart surgery so that one day, when we start granting service connection………..like in a 1000 fucking years from now. Some poor unsuspecting Veteran will benefit, not from the creepy k9 experiments, but from teaching the veteran how to sit and beg.

    Like I said before, as they try to stop the veteran from bleeding out, by simultaneously stabbing holes, to find the scalpel that was left inside.

    • VA DEATHCARE DOES KILL VETS FOR THE BONOUS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  2. While I find this reprehensible, it is no more so than anything else this completely worthless organization does/does not do.

    I can understand why dog lovers would be upset. And I hope Animal Rights groups across the nation rise up and keep this in the media for many days to come.

    I will say though that maybe, just maybe the VA researchers are correct on this one. Maybe this research is truly necessary.

    If so, VA Researchers should be conducting these research experiments on each other.

  3. “Just as the VA was held accountable for delivering subpar care to our nation’s veterans, it should answer for the possible abuse of animals and waste of taxpayer funds on haphazard research,” said Rep. Ed Royce, R-Calif., in a statement.

    What??? Huh??? When did this happen? VA was held accountable for delivering subpar care?

    What a rube this Rep. Royce is.

    Time for my CBD Vape. Massive Migraines.

      • @Crazy elf: That is a brilliant idea Crazy elf, start using RINO’s instead of dogs. Also, sorry for your loss, sometimes it is more painful than losing a human.

      • @Crazy Elf – I am truly sorry for the loss of your Little Princess. It has been four years, two months since my Latte’ departed, While there are two dogs in the house now, none will ever come close to my Latte’. She was a rescue dog. She rescued me on the beach at Haleiwa in July 1998, and helped me get through day by day. First dog that ever lived with me. Labrador mix.

        I was crying like a baby the night she left me in February 2013. And for several days afterward. I look at her cremains on the shelf every day.

        Condolences to you, and your family.

      • @Crazy elf — Sorry for your loss, know how much that dog meant to you and your wife by the way you spoke of her. I may only have a large 23 LB cat, but he’s no ordinary cat in that the Maine Coon mix is strong and learning ability shown it over last 9.5 years…he has totally adopted the role of service animal and all without being a lap cat one bit. Reminds me when it’s that same time of day for meds, I am such a creature of habit that I turn on the TV for news regular time for local/national each day and the damn cat will sit and incessantly make strange cat noises while staring at the 46″ flat screen, then looks back at me like, “Turn it on!”
        Even more than this.
        The VA torturing animals and Veterans is probably seen as one and the same by those lab rats performing this crap and it pisses me off.
        The punishment should be to let the animals have a turn at the lab rat hacks!!

        Oh, I was going for a walk…

      • @Crazy Elf – Well, I know California is supposed to be the land of “Fruits and Nuts”, but truth is I rather enjoyed San Diego when stationed there from ’81 to ’85. Lots of interesting things to see and do.

        However, their politicos are certainly living in a bubble all their own. Not too much different than what our Hawaii politicos do. Wish our nation had the discipline to vote out all incumbents over the next eight years. What a marvelous change that would be.

        Sadly, we do not.

      • @CJ – Yes. Using RINO’s instead of dogs for experimentation would be a huge step forward in many ways. But we should also throw DINO’s into the experimentation pool as well.

        Why is it when I look at the totality of US Governmental corruption and deceit, that it appears to me that Vladimir Putin is the most honest player in the US Government?

        No Putin fan here. But I do wonder . . .

      • @Disgruntled Veteran:No doubt, strange times when we agree that Putin is the one that comes off as truthfull and sane.

  4. I have an experiment with specific guidelines:

    1) Ask Lady GaGa for her special recipe for constructing and sewing together a “Meat Dress”.
    2) Place “Meat Dress” all over VA Lab Hack’s bodies.
    3) Have a few dozen dogs the VA has experimented on extensively, ready for taste-testing of ‘Meat Dress’.
    4) Turn one dog loose at a time.
    5) Repeat as required until dogs are well-fed.
    6) Reapply ‘Meat Dress’ as needed until VA Hacks scream “MOMMY, MAKE IT STOP”.
    7) Then repeat as required until the noise ceases and dogs take a nap.
    8) Set dogs free.

    “[“Just as the VA was held accountable for delivering subpar care to our nation’s veterans, it should answer for the possible abuse of animals and waste of taxpayer funds on haphazard research,” said Rep. Ed Royce, R-Calif., in a statement.]”

    Wait a minute! *WHEN* was the VA actually held accountable? Did I fall asleep and wake-up in an alternate universe where the Veterans experiment on the VA Hacks? Can I stay here? This is fun! 🙂

    RAT FUCKING BASTARDS!

    • namnibor,
      Same answer I gave to Disgruntled Veteran is applicable to you.
      “What the hell can you expect a “RINO” from California to say!”

  5. Yesterday, I put the article from “Military.com/Daily News” about this on Ben’s Blog.
    My language was, well – let’s just say I was pissed. I couldn’t even finish reading the article. Because it upset me so much!
    Why? Because —-
    A few months ago, the wife and I, had to “put down” our “Little Princess”! A full blooded “Shih Tzu”! She was our baby. Plus, she gave us hours of fun and LOVE! We had her in our lives for about 6 or 7 years. She was a “rescue dog”, so we weren’t exactly sure how old she was when we got her. We now believe she was older than what we were told.

    That being said, When this article came out yesterday. The wife and I got really angry.
    The VA has been getting caught, on numerous occasions now, screwing veterans. It seems, at least in our opinion, for the last eight years there’s been massive amounts of cover-ups in almost every government agency!
    It’s as though, whatever occurred, the taxpayers and veterans were the losers.
    Now, we are subjected to where “Man’s Best Friend” is also a “guinea pig!” These “actions” by VA are reprehensible to an extreme.

    I remember, years ago, where Animal Rights Groups, went after corporations and institutions over “testing”, or “experimenting”, on Dogs, Cats and other animals. One such place was “Procter and Gamble” in Cincinnati, Ohio. They were caught, red handed, experimenting on Dogs and cats for beauty products. They were summarily sued and fined. The experiments allegedly stopped.
    As a matter of fact, P&G’s earliest tussle with “activists”, “Green Peace”, was in 2015. It had something to do with the Forest in Malaysia or somewhere. Where they were caught destroying woodlands, for a chemical, for “beauty products!”
    Green Peace hung two LARGE banners outside, after they broke in, the corporate offices in Downtown Cincinnati. Remember that incident!

    In mine and the wife’s opinion, these egregious acts committed by VA employees are NOT going to STOP. “WHY”, Because, IF they can get away with murdering veterans, what makes anyone believe they’ll stop murdering animals?!?!

    • I am sorry for your loss Crazy Elf. Losing pets in many instances is actually harder than losing a human you have known for years.

      As for this stupidity, I would be very curious about where the VA got the funding for this BS. I would like to see the research proposal, and what they hoped to gain from this lunacy. Who paid for it? Was it another government slush fund for medical research? Was this funded, but not some more promising treatment by a private research doctor? What other research did not get funded because the VA has an army of grant writers just for this purpose? I truly cannot see how they can expect to gain anything by it. That proposal would also show how they planned to induce brain trauma in a dog which they would have to do to study any effects. Do they expose the dogs to blast effects to simulate an IED type of trauma? It would show how they would induce a heart attack. I can’t imagine either can be termed anything less than torture.

      Somehow I suspect this is funded in such a manner that the VA can claim it is all unpublished, therefore no documentation about any of this can be released publicly.

      Except to Congress if they gave a damn.

  6. You all HAVE to read the article Ben posted a link to above where the VA hack was experimenting on Vets by heating-up plexiglass and injecting this entirely experimental demented idea into the spines of vets, which caused even more pain as the liquid plexiglass cooled into a very hard manner in which it severed spines, severed nerves causing paralysis, renal failure and more…then after all that, the USAF hired him as a Senior Flight Surgeon…and in the end the VA denied that VA hack ever was authorized to perform surgery and denied all…even though class actions were launched, and the hospital system in NM this hack worked at experimenting on vets had SO MANY lawsuits the hospital was seeing Federal Bankruptcy Protection…yet, the VA seemingly got entirely away with this shit.
    “https://www.abqjournal.com/52729/veterans-affairs-reviewing-spine-doctors-cases.html”

    We really just need to shit-down the medical end of the VA entirely and Medicare for ALL Vets…and send all these VA hacks for an extended stay in Afghanistan and Syria…I hear it’s beautiful this time of year, never mind the bombings and such…also never mind the clothing attire design on airdropped hacks of shooting range target designs…to include glow in the dark. Have fun with that you ingrates!!

    • “SHUT DOWN”, not “shit down”….but if the option of letting the dogs shit down their necks is on the table, who am I to disagree? 🙂

      • @namnibor: I wonder how many more “never really a surgeons” are working at a va near you? WTF? GO DIRECTLY TO THE HANGINNG TREE, NO TRIAL NO NOTHING BUT A ROPE.

      • @cj- Let that “rope” be made of the entrails of the previous VA hack directly hung from a tree. Which means there ALWAYS has to be that experimental “FIRST’ hanging attempting to use yarn, kite string, fishing line, baling twine, jute, wrapping ribbons…working way up to what will stand-up to 300+ LBS….while the hungry dogs watch and wait…

    • Ho. Lee. Fuk.

      You do a search on his name, and he pops up as a pain management specialist living in Loveland, CO as shown on Healthgrades: “https://www.healthgrades.com/physician/dr-christian-schlicht-yvp27”

      I like how the ABQ VA spokeshack claimed there were no problems with his time at the VA as evidenced by the lack of lawsuits.

      A pretty extensive write-up on this lunatic is at: “http://www.nurse-anesthesia.org/archive/index.php/t-13252.html” It mentions his plexiglass treatments.

      An interesting excerpt from that article is, ”
      Schlicht “is not and never has been a neurosurgeon, a spine surgeon, a back surgeon, an orthopedic surgeon or any kind of surgeon at all,” the lawsuits state, although he said he was trained in Germany.

      Schlicht, in a prior lawsuit, said he observed about 30 neurological surgeries when he would return to Germany on vacation. He would watch the operations on television or from an observation area open to anyone.

      Gerald Champion, in court records, denied that Schlicht had no surgical training.

      The hospital in 2007 paid $1,200 for Schlicht’s renewal dues from the Royal College of Physicians & Surgeons USA. A certification letter was signed by the group’s executive director, who was convicted in the mid-1980s of mail fraud for selling board certifications in tropical medicine, Coates, the plaintiffs’ lawyer, said during Schlicht’s deposition.”

      Which should make anyone wonder, exactly what the fuck kind of grab-ass checking does the VA do on credentials of their butchers? Any at all? Beuller?

      After reading this zoominfo stuff on this guy, I have to ask the same of the US Air Force. This zoominfo entry shows he was a former F-15 fighter pilot in between stints at VA hospitals and medical centers, including listing himself as Chief of Minimally Invasive Spine Surgery.

      So, at 46 years old, he managed to become a fighter pilot and a neurosurgeon/pain management specialist/Dr. Mengele wannabe and nobody at VA batted an eye?

      “http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Christian-Schlicht/328441714”

      Another excerpt from that zoominfo page shows, “Schlicht, a German native, also practiced at the Veterans Hospital in Albuquerque before moving on to the Alamogordo hospital. He next worked in Colorado as a pain management specialist and later for the U.S. Air Force as a senior flight surgeon. In 2012, he was reprimanded and his clinical privileges to practice medicine were revoked. His license to practice medicine in New Mexico has expired. In 2013, Colorado, Arizona and Montana all took actions that resulted in Schlicht surrendering his medical licenses in those states. Kudos to them.
      Schlicht now lives in the Denver area.”

      which makes me wonder, did the VA bounce this guy around to several VA hospitals in Montana, Denver and Arizona?

      A couple other articles on this quack bastard are at: “https://www.abqjournal.com/556087/doctor-involved-in-bone-cement-cases-seeks-second-chance.html”

      and “https://www.abqjournal.com/462243/pain-suffering-and-the-million-dollar-man.html”.

      But…back to Colorado. If you go to the Colorado DORA web site where you can look up licenses on quacks practicing here in this state, you can find two different adverse action documents against this guy, finally yanking his license in…2013.

      “http://www.dora.state.co.us/pls/real/DDMS_Search_GUI.Process_DPO_Search_Form”

  7. The “Top Story” out today from:
    “Military.com” via “Associated Press”!
    dated: 28 Mar. 2017
    By: Jennifer McDermott
    titled;
    “Veterans Homelessness: Trump’s Budget Could Hurt Efforts!”

    From the article: quote;
    “The push to end homelessness among veterans would suffer without the U.S. Interagency Council on Homelessness.”

    When y’all read the article, can you see where this, and other agencies are trying their best to “NOT stop the gravy train to their own pockets!”

    If Homelessness among veterans, and other groups, is declining as the agencies say. Then why is it we are hearing and seeing a rise in Homelessness in America? All while illegal immigrants and refugees are swimming in luxury. Free everything for them- new cars, homes, food allotments,spending monies etc., etc.! And, IF a Muslim Refugee has more than one wife. Each wife receives equal amounts of taxpayers monies!
    All of it from the taxpayers!!!!!!!

    Remember the “MEME going viral on Twitter” I wrote about yesterday?! Where women, some with children, are “sleeping on the streets of America!”
    I wonder how many are veterans!?!?!?

    It’s time for Americans to speak up, and Stop the insanity brought on by our government!

    • Off topic – and in other news. I just watched HBO’s VICE News piece from yesterday. It featured an article about the VA sending out notices/demands for repayment of “overpaid” benefits. The VA is NOT providing an accounting of how much was overpaid, for what, and when. This is not the demands for repayment of re-enlistment bonuses in California last year. It’s the VA reviewing old records to harvest cash, or, absent repayment, suspend payments of disability benefits.

      Two take-aways. 1). The fuckers can’t find records that we need. 2). What do you want to bet that some Beltway scumsucking lobbyist scored a contract with the VA to harvest records for payment recovery, for which they get fat contract, and a percentage of the payments withheld/recovered?

      • @Windguy: So let’s see, I have a hear attack, the hospital contacts the VA, the VA tell the hospital to stabilize me and transport me to a VA hear center. The VA heart center decided not to do anything, and I stilll have a blocked artery. I am not service connected for hear problems, Va is going to come after me for repayment of an emergency related heart attack that they illegally interfered with?

      • So I guess they will “steal” my ssdi for the rest of my life to pay back all their fuck-ups………..nice to know.

      • @Windguy: Also the thought just crossed my mind, Veterans have only a year to file a lawsuit against the VA, I will bet anything the VA has no such restrictions on it for going after overpayment of services to veterans………………..whatch out veterans, you thought kids were never going to be able to repay student loans? wait till we start getting charged for everything under the sun non-service connected. I can just see it now. Not only will I have NO retirement, but every cent I have and ever will have is now going to go the the fucking corrupt VA, and the AFGE retirement fund. What a racket. Meanwhile Ha beeb and family are living the life of luxury, all expenses paid. Windguy, this only tells me they are no longer waiting around for us to die, now they have moved into search and destroy mode, since we aren’t dieing fast enough.

      • cj – I didn’t read it that way. If, say, “Bob” was getting VA disability and other compensation, and, the VA does a records and eligibility review and decides they gave you too much over the last – say decade. If they think they’re paying $100/mo for 10 years, they’ll send you a bill for $12k – maybe interest if there’s a Harvard boy involved. So, if you, like me, aren’t getting shit from the VA, or, getting lots of shit and no fucking comp, no fucking problem. YMMV

      • I read an article about that Windguy. It mentioned one guy being hit by the VA to repay $70,000 in what they claim he was overpaid. He tried to go through the hardship waiver process, but the VA delayed that waiver long enough until the entire $70,000 was taken back, then denied his waiver as no longer being needed.

        As for some greedy lobbyist…I would not be surprised at all if that is the case. I can’t see the VA doing any investigation like that unless it somehow benefits them, and since any money they recover might go back into their general fund, or back to the Treasury…I suppose someone thought, why not contract it out for a huge sum, plus the contractor likely gets a percentage of any money taken back.

      • @Windguy: You are correct, I recieve nothing from the VA except healthcare for my “service connected” injuries. No compensation whatsoevr. 100% disabled, but ssdi sends the check not the VA. I can just see it though. That treatment wasn’t for your service connection, we want our money back. At thiis point I wouldln’t put anything past these assholes. A veteran has to fight tooth and nail for a max of 3000 per month for his/her entire family, sub par health care, if any at all. Meanwhile, they have no trouble paying ahcmed 140 thousand a year or more to only work 20 hours a week. Or like in the N.Chicago VA, 225 thousand a year to work 100% on “union business”. Not to mentions whatever they had to pay this hacks replacement. I especially like the article namnibor posted about the asshole pretend doctor. who injected melted plexiglass into veterans. He was being payed almost 1/2 mil. Now tell me this, what would the entire world say if we injected melted plexiglass into the spined of the GITMO detainee’s? Valid question I think, considering the uproar over not having air conditioning. While the younger veterans here were walking around in full battle gear in what? 100 degree pluss weather? This entire country is fucked up beyond anything a mental institution could ever cure. The asylum isn’t for us. It’s locatied in D.C. I use to say nuke the fuck out of Chicago, now I will say leave Chicago alone and nuke the fuck out of DC, as an experiment, to better mankind.

  8. Meanwhile, INSANE McCAIN is now droning-on the national news going on and on about how Obamacare is imploding in his state of AZ…McCain is also outraged over the mistreatment of Syria’s people….all the while McCain’s State of Arizona VAMC’s are literally on fire with scandal…not…a…clue!

    Why can’t McCain show some outrage toward the way Vets are treated at the VA? I really detest Insane McCain and his conjoined ass at the ass crack, Lindsay Graham…ashamed they are even Vets.

    • @Nam – The reason Insane McCain cannot show some outrage toward the way vets are treated is because Johnny Boy has his sights set on getting some from Rima Nelson. Definitely.

      • What I’ve always feared is McCain would eventually retire from Congress, maybe wait the required couple years, then use his Veteran status to be appointed the VA Sec. for either a Dem or Rep because McCain seems to be a swirled blend of things, a chameleon or I will just say it, a blowhard opportunist that loves to hear his monotonic voice cause church bells to vibrate and crack for miles away… 🙂

        McCain would ensure the swamp remains swampy if he were to go that path. Hope I’m wrong but as I say, wait for it……

      • @Nam – I would not bet against that in our modern, ignorant PC society. McCain has come quite far in life for a young lad whose first major “act of service” was to be the matchstick that ignited the three day fire aboard USS Forrestal . . .

        Some hero.

  9. We can only wish there was an outside group watching over the VA trying to help veterans as these good people are trying to care for animals.

    I am a dog owner and she is my service dog and if these acusations are true all I can can really say is we have been treated like animals for many years and it takes an animal rights group to charge the VA with animal abuse WTF

    Odds on bets the VA will stop this practice before they stop the abuse against veterans.

  10. Per using Plexiglass [an acrylic] in Spinal Cord Injuries [SCI] may be controversial. Some of the varieties of these compounds are known to be carcinogenic. And, when melting, the temperature must reach a temperature of 320 F [160 C] to be fluid. It is widely used in bone cementing, plastic, and maxillo-facial surgeries.

    My concern about these types of acrylics [non organic compounds] used in neuro and spinal cord surgeries; [1.] exposure to carcinogens, [2.] the dispersion of heat to surrounding nerve tissues, [3.] overall structural integrity and strength of said compound, and [4.] after time, any leaching that may occur. Although, I may be prejudice due to my sensitivities to plastics.

    Per the VA’s research on canines to study and gather data on diabetes, brain function, PTSD, heart attacks, invasive brain-damaging surgeries, and mutilating stomachs; I have a very hard time comprehending how humans and canines are closely related to each other, to scientifically correlate any findings between these two organic species for medical discoveries, when performing open or closed research experiments [sorry for seeming to be a little less sensitive].

    The species of humans and canines to survive aren’t closely related, and their nutritional requirements aren’t the same. The majority of the general public doesn’t like to accept the benefits of research on animals, and this is understandable. But research findings using live specimens are the most sound. Although, canines are not the best choice when doing medical research in complex scientific projects relating to humans.

    In conclusion, VA your an utmost ass wipe dirty science promoter by performing medical research with canines. And, I would bet that you [VA] have agreements with kill shelters [most likely hidden], to purchase dogs from these types of facilities that have heartless mission statements that guides their operational activity. Shame on you [VA] for your sick medical research projects. My trust in you [VA] has fallen through the floor; basically, its not there. One day, shortly, I’ll be able to totally separate myself from you [VA].

    @Crazy elf – I’m sorry to hear about your precious baby, Little Princess. We know directly how you folks feel. We lost our loyal buddy a couple of years ago. And, we still miss him so very much. Hopefully elf, after proper grieving, you folks will find another rescue that needs faithful parents and a loving place to call home. God bless you folks.

    • I was hoping you would comment on this ANutterVet. As I said elsewhere, it would be interesting to see their research proposal where they try justify how research using dogs can translate to anything human.

  11. It is hard to get overly upset over animal research per se, and God knows I have absolutely slaughtered with ruthless vigor thousands of innocent jack rabbits that otherwise were feeding on the lush alfalfa fields of my uncles farm, but on this thing about VA tortouring dogs to determine how this might better serve veterans I call BULLSHIT!

    VA, please point specifically to a spot on MY BODY (a United States Marine, An Oregon Army Nat. Guardsman, and a godamn human being wih a heart) that is going to benefit from the ruthless torture of captive animals under your control. Point out in MY CHARTS the exact entry that shows how brutalizing another creature has made everything better for me! Give me the initials of A SINGLE United States Veteran whose life is now better because you demonstrated the inhumane part of being human? Then point out to me, just where your heart went in the pursuit of making mine more healthy.

    • @Dennis – Thanks for posting how you feel about the ruthless activity performed on torturing dogs. We need to speak out about this. You can’t compare dogs to hardly any other animals in correlation to their loving kindness with human interactions. Most other animals aren’t on the same level. No disrespect to other unique animals.

      Folks, how much lower can the VA go in depth of off-the-wall psychotic research practices? No fucking heart. To the VA, lives, no matter what species, are just numbers. These days should be over. Revolt against these bastards. The VA keeps pushing, and pushing. One day, a well trained Veteran is going to get so upset. They’ll h[VA employees] will have no other choice but to scatter in the halls of their underground torture chambers. VA, watch your backs. You know exactly who you are. There are Veterans that are at their breaking point. And, you’re very well aware of this matter.

      This post is to warn VA employees to stop their madness using sicko dirty science experiments. No threat from me, only if I’m forced to protect those I love or myself. The warning is about other Veterans who are at their limits from dealing with your unproven scientific bullshit research methods, projects, and what is your so-called normal interactions with Veterans, which is scientifically, life threatening. VA, you’re not fooling all of us. The veil is being pulled back that reveals who you truly are.

      Make me POTUS, and I shall declare a field day on many VA employees. A true disinfection and cleansing of contributing factors that makes up the stagnant slushy swamp in the facilities of the VA. I’m going outside, and vape some anti-anxiety medication.

  12. Perhaps the dogs were Veteran dogs. Then I would understand why they can treat them like they are. Although, if we can get enough information, we may learn the VA treatment of the dogs may have been less humane than what the VA does to humans. Doesn’t seem like anything is getting better.

  13. Duly note:

    If I tend towards or have been a bit more ruffled around the emotional edges of late; in last week my brother and I have learned my father has likely stage 4 lung and other cancers throughout body and his religious faith tells him he does not wish to take any treatments, even if not full stage 4, he’s ready to meet The Man, and hard as it is to see this strong and most intelligent person I have yet to meet in life be in so much pain is gut-wrenching, but my brother and I are just being emotional support for my mother and looks like he will coming home with hospice in coming days…and although this is not about me at all, my brother and I only really have each other for emotional support on a deeper level because we both served in different Branches for a few enlistments and both deal with PTSD, anxiety, depression and all the chronic health crap I currently live with that’s other than mental…because my parents cannot relate one bit because they have lived a relatively isolated from the real world life, because they could afford to do so…and our family is not tight one bit. No holiday dinners…ever…everything in parent’s life evolves and revolves around their rather fanatical fundamental beliefs…which compounds this entire matter more so because although my brother and I consider ourselves spiritual and indeed Christians, we of course are not the correct ‘flavor’ of such for my parents, so we have been excluded all these years from their lives…they indeed live in a bit of a glass dome of existence…but we get that…that is their “pill” or “whatever” that gives them strength and hope.
    The struggling we are having to wrap our heads around is the all so-read-to-die just because we are tired of this world.
    My brother and I are not quitters.
    If I chose to cease taking a 3-drug antiretroviral therapy I would indeed eventually die a terrible death, maybe an elongated prolonged affair or within months…who knows? But if I decided to not take the meds any longer, by whose judgment written in stone is that declared a ‘sin’…suicide of sorts?
    Is refusing to take any modern treatment before knowing all the data a bit extreme or should we just let them go through their ‘Jim Jones’ mentality to make things hurry-up to field trip to Guyana for a Kool-Aid punch party? (my dark humor)

    So anyway, I just wanted to put it out there what am going through in event my disposition became or becomes more ‘thorny’…have quite the large helping of life’s shit sandwich on our plates now. Your prayers and thoughts are appreciated…and no, the VA is not involved in any way. That’s the other strange thing: my dad has always referred to himself as a Veteran, but truth be told, he did ROTC USAF while at Purdue in Vietnam War Era and never completed, one month shy of graduating, got married to my mom and then continued working at my then-family’s manufacturing mill, that had gone back to Industrial Age dates…that Co. has been defunct for a while since EPA laws made it a “pay to pollute laws’, where essentially the big co.’s like 3M could pay a few hundred thousand for each facility to continue polluting and little guys like my family at time, and also farmers, could hardly afford to continue doing so.

    So, I am also biting my lip in light of my dad’s infirmary state, of not calling-out quasi-stolen valor or evasive techniques to avoid the Vietnam War…like I said, have quite the shit sandwich right now to consume.
    Thanks for listening…or not. Pretty private person here but this was a glimpse into my current vantage point of hell on earth.

    • @Namnibor – Interesting reading your personal sitrep. With very few extremely minor substitutions, you described my family, our beliefs, how my siblings and I fit, our socio-economic status when I enlisted, and a myriad of other things. Only major change was my year was 1995 for my dad. Then mom went in 1998. I also am a pretty private person.

      I have no answers, but will keep you in my thoughts.

      • Thanks. It’s also somewhat comforting to know there’s other “alien survivors’ in this world! 🙂 (I will never lose my sense of humor)

        Remember last year, Benjamin had an article on the MILE LONG “Hines VAMC in Chicago where those body bags were found of liquefied remains of veterans left on shelves like overhead in a closet somewhere in basement?
        In that article, I recall Benjamin also pointing out fact where those Veteran’s remains were retrieved from was not too far away from where the VA does animal and otherwise, experiments…the nonhuman test subject thing again…just pointing out this is in other locations as well as I think an affiliation with a California Medical College and the VA out there with nonhuman test subjects, aka: Veterans and animals.
        The VA and the DoD may just fulfill more science fiction and ‘The Umbrella Corporation” just might be a reality after all.

      • @Nam – Yes. I do remember that article. And I will not bet against “The Umbrella Corporation” although it would be under a different name.

        Let me pose the same question to you that I put to @CJ:

        Why is it when I look at the totality of US Governmental corruption and deceit, that it appears to me that Vladimir Putin is the most honest player in the US Government?

        No Putin fan here. But I do wonder . . .

  14. @Namnibor – Thanks for sharing about what you and your family are going through. I understand how must feel, even though your circumstance isn’t directly mine, but in spirit and comradery I have an obligation to stand with you and for you.

    Even though sometimes it may not seem so, I’m a person of faith as well. I remember when my grandmother was manipulated in believing that the so-called faith healers in the Philippines would be able to put their hand into your body to remove growths or tumors. Without any incisions. This caused a big disagreement between my grandmother and me, and 2 relatives that were feeding my grandma a bunch of baloney. And, the cost to visit that satanic healing center in the Philippines was over $8,000. That was back in 1984. Most likely over 20k today.

    Nam, you can say it how you see it anytime. Its all relevant. I don’t have any solutions, only to let you know that I know what you going through, and somewhat the going through of your situation with your parents. To be straightforward, its hard when you know the truth is different from what your parents believe. You can’t force others to accept things in life differently. That may be the hardest part, because I know you love your parents or you wouldn’t be expressing yourself.

    Nam, I’ll keep you in prayer and thoughts. And, I do understand. Stay well, and don’t let anyone interfere or steal your joy.

    • @ANutterVet- Thanks. No stranger to death, but I have to say I am actually very glad the VA is NOT involved in any way because if I’m not already, would quickly make it to the top tier of their Disruption Behavior Committee’s list.

      We did just find out it’s indeed stage 4, which means they are giving him around 3 months max. Waiting on hospice to get situated and such then I will make a short visit to likely see my father last time alive…will be tough. I live in another State. My mom has things under control and my brother and I are being emotional support cheerleaders. My dad hates the telephone, always has…so needless to say, I really do not even know my dad very well, never have. It was like being raised by aliens in some odd human hybrid experiment. Taking the higher road in life with this situation because truth be told, in the many hospital extended stays and various health scares, have not once had a family member come…the level of disconnect really sucks but if you do not believe the way they do you are not considered worthy of their time.
      Going for a walk by river. Always relaxes me.

      • @Namnibor – I know that feeling. In 2006, I had a 100% blockage to my LAD coronary artery [the widow maker], in which only about 10% survive this condition. And, my heart gave out 2 times. They put a pace maker on my right side. They had the pace maker outside my body, and waited to see if I stabilized. I was afraid of for my life. Very stressful.

        I was in the hospital for 5 days, and only 1 of my relatives came to see me. I was so embarrassed, because the other patient asked me, “you haven’t had many visitors, do you live out of state?” I didn’t know what to say. I only wanted to get better, and get home with my wife and K9.

        Nam, find those things that give you comfort, and those like you said, “always relaxes me.”

  15. Spending to Death reports a cost of $13,795 for a 2yr old male beagle, that huge amount tells me something is very special with that one dog – gene spliced?, DNA manipulated? Some other Frankenstein Creature? The researchers who did these experiments: steve solomon, andrew arai, james peter beck, hubert v forster, timothy s kern, kingman perkins strohl.

    My son came home from Iraq covered in bites from the sand flies. Some of the dogs killed & dissected had been infected with Leishmaniasis carried by those sand flies which is on the move with the refugees & our troops in the Middle East could become infected. This concerns me but torturing dogs is not the answer.

    Dogs are considered the primary host with German Shepherd, Boxers, Cocker Spaniels more likely to develop disease. Cats are also at risk of infection. Transmission from infected dogs to humans is possible. Was this study done to benefit the War Dogs & their handlers.

    Adopt a military working dog [retired], dog that has flunked out of training or a horse owned by the Department of Defense: “http://vetsadoptpets.org/militaryworkingdogadoptions.html”

    • @Wayne harper: They told the er cardiologist to stabilize me and get me to a VA heart center, and then didn’t do shit………………I feel ya, they trying to kill us all.

  16. @Namnibor, my prayers go out to you and your family. After reading the following posts, I realized that many of us have similar problems and stories. I settled on what Rashma Shetty said, All paths lead to God. I just wish Veterans got some respect, we don’t. Perhaps Nitewash is right about the dogs, still the VA shouldn’t be involved.

  17. Off Topic – Here ye, Hear ye, to all United States Senators and Congressmen, please get up off your ass, and do something to change the VA Healthcare System that effects the lives of many precious Veterans. Veterans are waiting for you to take action, but I can assure you, they aren’t holding their breath.

  18. c[_] COFFEE BREAK c[_]
    till later
    ¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ ‘̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/’̿̿ ̿ ̿̿
    And
    …………./´¯/)………….(\¯`\
    …………/….//…………..\\….\
    ………../….//…………….\\….\
    …../´¯/…./´¯\…………./¯`\….\¯`\..
    .././…/…./…./.|_……_|.\….\….\…\.\..
    (.(….(….(…./.)..)….(..(.\….)….)…..).)
    .\…………….\/…/….\…\/……………./
    ..\…………….. /……..\………………/
    ….\…………..(…………)…………../
    ……\………….\………../…………./
    FUCK THE VA!

  19. Inducing heart attacks so they can better treat PTSD, diabetes and brain function? I am surprised they aren’t amputating a poor animal’s leg to better treat hearing loss.

    I understand that animals are necessary in research, but they are supposed to be treated humanely with respect. But this is the VA, and they don’t treat their human subjects humanely with respect.

  20. More bullshit research for the sake of research funded by the taxpayers.

    The VA certainly should have enough medical research and actual treatment history on all 3 of these conditions to make any research on dogs or any other animal worthless.

    How in fact does research on either of the 3 on dogs translate to treatment in humans? Granted I am not a clinical researcher, but I can read, and I have never heard of any researcher using dogs. They use other animals that actually translate better to humans.

    What pisses me off about this, and not to offend dog lovers, but why the outrage over this from groups and politicians when they can’t bat a fucking eye over research on human veterans without their consent?

    Are these politicians bitching because animals were used rather than veterans?

    I think it’s kind of late for politicians to be whining about this anyway since they can’t be bothered to conduct actual oversight on the pathetic, inhuman treatment of veterans.

    This shouldn’t make Isakson to miss a single step on his Stairmaster.

    • @91Veteran – Given that biologically speaking, chimpanzees are most similar to humans – – one might ask “How come the human chimpanzees at the VA are not conducting research on the chimpanzees that are so similar to humans?”

      Canine physiology is quite dissimilar to that of Humans.

      What validity could this tainted research hold?

      • @Disgruntled Veteran – This news really got under my skin. The VA is completely off on this matter, and should be required to be overseen with all projects that deal with life.

        Besides Chimpanzees, the only other animal that I know that is closely related to humans are pigs. What’s wrong with having a Hawaiian luau after their projects are completed? VA does their research, then in turn, they help feed Veterans that are in need of meals. Only joking. The pork would most likely be highly contaminated. And, this issue deserves more sensitivity and controls.

      • @ANutterVet – “What’s wrong with having a Hawaiian luau after their projects are completed? VA does their research, then in turn, they help feed Veterans that are in need of meals. Just joking . . . ”

        KAlua Pig would be great. VAlua Pig would not be something I would ever put in my mouth.

        Krapola! Wun Beeg Brane Fut my end . . .

        Laterz !

      • @ANutterVet: Interesting………..new VA cookbook: 100 ways to wok your dog. Sick bastards. And very sorry to all for the sick humor. I love my dogs, and I know you love yours as well, and cats, birds etc.

  21. Somehow, things are looking dismal at present. @Ben, when do we Veterans, begin to feel better? I must be missing something. God Bless the Veterans, their families, and their dogs,…and cats, birds, rats, turtles, and so on. That’s a good looking dog on the cover. When will congress and Senate treat Veterans as well as Americans treat animals?

    • @ANutterVet: I am right there with you, things are pilling up in my head too. I am quietly getting angrier by the day. Too many things running through my fucked up head lately. So much so, that I can’t adequitly describe it. Not to worry, I maintianing. I’ve been much worse.

      How are you doing?

      • @cj – The best that I can given that the ass wipes are messing with my scripts again. As you recall, they did the same last month. Broke the scripts up into 2 lots. No consideration that someone has to pick them up for me. Don’t trust the USPS. Anything Federal for that matter.

        Larry King had Bill Richardson on his show tonight. Mentioned a little blip about POTUS wanting to make changes with the VA. If and when, if it resembles the National Healthcare, expect confusion and may be more problems.

        I’ll tell you, in all honesty, I’m struggling with major trust issues. The more they play around and don’t take things in an ethical manner, my trust falls further into the negative numbers of measurement to make sure that the science experiment has an accurate outcome so that people can better understand what’s going on around them because they need to feel safe to run their errands and to pick up the kids from school take the dog to the dog stop to meet his-her friends and on the way back home to fill up the car with gas. Shew . . . did we make it?

      • @ANutterVet: Not trust here either, I didn’t break the trust, they did. Once trust is broken, exactly how do you ever get it back? Are we to just say, “oh helll let’s shake hands and go on from here, let’s just start over” Fuck no. because if given the chance they would do it all over again exactly the same way. They do not care about us at all. You see, we cost them money, and they are all about the money at the VA. You would do so much better, if you pretended to be a world renowned neurosurgeon. Your money troubles woudl be over, and once again you too could see the world.

      • @cj -Dam gas went up again. Can’t get ahead of other people no matter what. I’m trying to feel their pain, but I need to care of my selfish wants first. They get what they want, so why can’t I. I’m not hurting anyone, its others that are hurting me. I’m a nice person so I can’t understand why all of this is happening to me. I try, and try, to no avail. I’m thinking about giving it all up to someone else. That way I won’t have to bother with it all anymore. I’m serious. Please reread.

  22. @ANutterVet: I have noticed in the past week or so, the general overall tone of the blog has changed. Everyone is getting angrier than usuall. I am thinking we are all approching our tipping point,

    Just in time for Spring/Summer. A good deal if those with the smarts, that can’t travel well, could be the planners of a prolonged march. Every veteran I know personally, are ready to join in.

    We can do this. Once again, it will fall on the shoulders of our able bodied veterans, to inforce change. Since DC is completely unwilling to do so, for the very reasons Dennis mentioned about history.

    It is time!!!!

  23. @cj – I’m in as a planner. Need to spend more time with social media to be effective. Actually, funny this came up. Wife was on me today about spending a lot time on the blog. Its not that it isn’t important, but that this issue takes a lot of time, energy, and resources, and misfits know it [VA that is].

  24. @cj – I know the trust has been broken. And, I went and trusted them again. It was broken again. Circle jerking to the max. My mind always hesitates when dealing with them. Thought of a runaway freight train throttling down the dam tracks at full speed. Hard to keep up.

  25. @ANutterVet: I re-read, over and over. You have every right to be selfish brother. YOU NEED RELIEF!!!!
    I am a bit dense tonight, not quite understanding the “giving it up to someone else” part. Can you be more specific? if not here. private email?

    • @cj – No offense, I got you. Actually, I noticed that @Ex va posted earlier, and I was hoping that he would pick up on the content of my post. That’s why I said to reread it, and then, like now, your most likely scratching your head saying, “WTF is he trying to say?” LMAO, sorry bro it was the right thing to do once we started in a deep discussion in order to set up Ex va. Don’t get mad, walk around and laugh it off.

      But in reality, I’m disgusted. Its my way of burning off the anxiety. Go ahead, you can cuss me out.

  26. @cj – I’m concerned about the kinetic force going down the tracks and the need of stopping this mass when it need be. The potential energy is always there. Know what I mean?

    • @ANutterVet: Yes I know exactly what you mean. You have at least two of us, that can be reached anytime day or night. I chose to use that potential en mass kinetic energy to exatct justice. Why should we let the rat bastard win?

  27. @cj – I’ve got that cj. When I get to the tipping point, I’ll contact you. I appreciate your back up it means a lot to me. And, the same on my end to you Brother.

    • @ANutterVet: Oh hell no……………there is no way on earth, I will ever get pissed at you guys LOL Aint gonna happen. Yup, it’s a two way street, knew that from the start.

  28. @cj – This is what I do to my PCP, but I don’t let them know that I did it. In this way, they ponder about until my next appointment, and I still don’t say anything. It gets them to talk about things in which I drove them to the topics. My way of getting back at the rat bastards.

      • I am working on a good rat bastard ascii for namnibor. Still have some tweeking to do, so it doesn’t post as a garbled mess lol.

      • @cj – Nam, DV [Disgruntled Veteran], Ex va, and most everyone else likes it whey you plug in the artwork when it deems necessary by you, Leonardi, Van Gogh, Picasso, da Vinci, Monet, Michelangelo, Munch, Pollock, Degas, etc.

      • @ANutterVet: LOL yeah, I am working on a rat bastard so Nam can use it, a Crazy elf, for elf to use, You have the double middle fingers. I need to work on something for Ex va, and DV.

    • @cj – You many want to try this with those at the VA when they give you a bunch of asinine bs. Once you get it running, it funny to sit back and wait to what they have to say. You may notice, that they want more control of you. I refuse the ones that get closer to home [me]. Ben, keep this to yourself, and send a private email to others on your contact list. LMAO

  29. @cj -These are the kind of things that Vets need to share with one another. Lets say it is, a kindly way of getting back at the ratsters.

    • @ANutterVet: I hear ya, just say the word. Wonder where Ex va is? Maybe he fell asleep? that would be very good. To your other point, it will take time for me to practice this technique with a straigt face.

      • @cj – I still feel amped up, had more than enough Java Joe today. Yes, at first, it will be hard to keep a straight face. After a while, it will be riding a bike or tying you shoes, wiping your akolea [Hawaiian for butt, spelling off].

      • @ANutterVet: no harm in practicing, I do need to be careful till my appeal is done, and maybe the following court case, if they don’t rule in my favor.

      • @ANutterVet – Okole = Ass “Dat Wahine wun nice Okole” – Woman has a nice ass.
        Okole Maluna = Bottoms Up. Substitute for Cheers as the liquor glass is turned upside down.

      • @cj – Are you getting close to a decision being made? Or, you don’t know what’s happening until you hear from them? I should get all of my additional records to review for errors. It is so time consuming. I had issues with them today. They get so touchy when you catch something that may make them look less than professional. Be right back, I wanted to reply to your post before I forgot that I didn’t answer.

        Did you notice how I mentioned the numbers? Now watch em go look for them. They’ll then know exactly what we were talking about.

        I thought that I’d give you another example on how to make them run after something. Sorry folks for using ya as a VA guinea pig. Na, only joking, but I did use ya, only a little bit. LOL

      • @ANutterVet: Around July for my FOIA request, and around September for the appeal decision. They are being carefull around me, when they ask for info like my private doctors, I say sorry, I have on going legal actions I am awaiting decisions on. Until those are adjudicated, no personal information is to be given to the VA under any circumstance. Then they get all nicey nicey. Very uncomfortable to say the least.

      • @Ex va: Solo, I have never needed an attourney. I don’t think we are allowed an attourney at this stage of the game.

        Glad you were able get out and get some fresh air.

      • @cj, keep up the good work. I think you have the criteria met for your claims. I hope you get all of what you are asking for and more. You have been thru enough bs.

      • @Ex va: Thank you Ex, I do have all 7 points that they are alway talking about that you need to win. I see this first denial as a delay tactic only. Eventually they have nowhere to hide.

  30. @cj – Our K9 was very upset today with all the thunder. If the VA would’ve worked with me by giving me a med that I was on before [you know the one’s], I could’ve desensitized him from the noise. Well, at least a little bit. But fuck no, don’t work with me and back me up. Here we go. I need to simmer down. I get pissed off every time when I think about this.

    I’ll be right back. Going to check on those numbers that I mentioned earlier. Hey you, don’t look at our posts to find them, its not nice to be nosey. But go ahead, look for the numbers. Its ok.

  31. @ cj – I gotta hit the sack. You have a good night, get some sleep. God bless you and your family Brother. Good night @Ex va. Hope you’re able to get some rest.

    • @Ex va @cj – OK Ex va, thanks Brother. Gotta get some sleep. @cj, todays article, talk about overspending. Between all of us, we can make a lot of money. All those illegals for da kine cheeeep wages. Wow! Sign em up for do da verk. Frigging disgusting.

  32. @Ex va: My damn browser just crashed and took all my open tabs with it…………..grrrrrrrrrr.

    Ex, what did you do today outside?

      • @Ex va: That sounded like a nice day for you. i re-tilled to garden, and put up the chicken wire fencing. Hope to plant tomorrow, or soon. I would like the ground to be a little drier.

    • @cj, i am sorry your browser keeps crashing. I dump my history a lot and reboot i haven’t had a crash or frozen screen in a while. What do you think is causing it to crash?

      • @Ex va: I use Linux, I have a suspicion it is a program called xorg. I think I just have to wait for them to fix/patch the program and get it into the update list.

    • @Ex va: Sorry to hear that. Been sore lately but not weather related. when I type to much, my fingers get locked up……….if that makes sence.

      • @cj, my finger and hand joints get stuck, that is a lot of pain when it happens. I understand what you are talking about. Sometimes i can’t hardly use them for anything. Doctor says to keep trying to use them or they will lock up permanently.

      • @Ex va: Yes they get stuck in the closed position, but no pain. Just annoying is all, maybe a few days later there is a little pain. but nothing to talk about.

      • @cj, glad you don’t feel the pain. I have the bone erosion so my joints are not stable. Mine could be a lot worse. I have seen worse and i feel for those people.

      • @Ex va: Lot of farmers out here have arthritis real bad, I don’t know how they even function. Their fingers are all twisted. One I know, I told him they have finger joint replacements now. That would make him a new man for sure, He is a Korean war veteran. Don’t know if he ever stepped foot inside a VA. LOL he doesn’t know what he is missing.

      • @cj, i have been watching and researching the hand and finger replacement joints. I hope that if i need to go that route that the technology will have been improved. The twisting is the rheumatoid arthritis. I don’t know if i would trust the va for any surgery. Maybe he could get choice to get a good surgeon.

      • @Ex va; I told him about it, he didn’t seem interested at all. Some people, like farmers do not like doctors lol.

      • @cj, you are right. LOL! They instantly associate doctors with death. The old timers saw a lot of that.

      • @cj, it is like a farm all it can operate a corn shucker, washing machine, different things to help on the farm. it is a motor hits and misses spins a big belt. i think my grandma had one. do you have one. i think they are cool.

      • @Ex va: No I don’t have one, wish I did. The same farmer I was talking about has an entire collection, they look like they are brand new. I could never afford one. If I had that kind of money, I would buy another rifle lol.

      • @cj, i need to try to get some sleep, my eyes are burning. Lol!! I hope i can sleep a few hours. Take care. God Bless you and yours.

      • @Ex va: Goodnight Ex, and God Bless you and your family as well. Sleep well.

        ∩ │◥███◣ ╱◥███◣
        ╱◥◣ ◥████◣▓∩▓│∩ ║
        │╱◥█◣║∩∩∩ ║◥█▓ ▓█◣
        ││∩│ ▓ ║∩田│║▓ ▓ ▓∩ ║
        Goodnight Ben’s World

      • @cj, i saw some at a fair and they wanted a lot of money for one. Then you have to buy the attachments for it. Yeah, probably better off with a rifle for hunting venison. Love that venison sausage for christmas. Lol!

  33. I wonder if any of these sadistic doctors were serial killers in their home countries? Most of them are from countries that don’t hold human life in high regard?

    • @lily: lily, your more right than you know. Check out this link that namnibor posted, will talk later. “https://www.abqjournal.com/52729/veterans-affairs-reviewing-spine-doctors-cases.html”

  34. Test shaka ascii:

    ─╓▄▄
    ─█──╙▌───────────┌─┌▄▀▀▄─────────▄▄══▄▄
    ─▀▄─┌▀▀▄───┌┌┌▄▀▀▀█▀───└▀▄────┌▄▀────▄█
    ──└▌───└▀▄▀▀└└█───║───┌▄─▀───▄▀────▄▀
    ────▀▄───╙▄───█▄─┌╝▌───▐▌─█╓█└───┌█
    ─────╙▌───╙▄└└╙█───█═──▐▌╓█▀─────█
    ───────█───└▀─▄▐█▄▀██└█▄▀└──────█
    ───────▐▌────█▄┌▄█▄╓█▀└───────┌█
    ────────█─────└└──█▀─────────┌█
    ────────╙█───────▐▌─────────╓█
    ─────────╙▌───────█───────╓█▀
    ──────────╙▌┌──────▀▀╙└──▄▀
    ────────────█▀▀└────────▐▌
    ────────────╙▌──────────▐▌
    ─────────────▀▀──────────▀
    *****************ka maluhia

    • @cj – Thanks Buddy, I got da kine trade wind a breezing on my skin, thoughts of da big fish for one spear em, and those thick sticky things on these green colored plants that I found growing towards the mountain side of the road [mauka]. DV knows local Hawaiian talk good. He’s the white dude who knows pigeon. Thanks cj for the shaka. Right back at you.

      • @ANutterVet: namnibor pointed out that it looked like “female Vets standing on their heads while giving birth”
        LOL…….so I think I will mak another……only problem, is once you see something you can’t un-see it.

  35. Test shaka 2 ascii:
    —————**.—******
    ———-****—-**—**—**
    ——-.*————-.*—-*****
    ——…——————*******
    —-,———————********
    ///————————****—-////
    ////————————*—-/////
    –////——///(../////./)—–/////
    —////.—//.//////////./—/////
    —–////((///./////.///.////////
    ——////(((///././////////////
    ——-/////(((./..%///////////
    ——–//////////////////////
    ———-//////////////////
    ———–ka maluhia

  36. @ANutterVet: that is supose to be a shaka sign with the islands going from thumb to pinky. Witch one do you like better? this is for DV.

    • @cj – I like the first one that you did. It looks clear to me. I think Nam is smoking something that’s an off color green to brown??? lol Hold on to this one, I really like it. What do you think?

  37. Test shaka 3 acii:

    —————**.—******
    ———-****—-**—**—**
    ——-.*————-.*—-*****
    ——…——————*******
    —-,———————********
    ///————————****
    ////
    –////——///(../////./)—–///
    —////.—//.//////////./—/////
    —–////((///./////.///.////////
    ——////(((///././////////////
    ——-/////(((./..%///////////
    ——–//////////////////////
    ———-//////////////////
    ———–ka maluhia

  38. …………………./´¯/)
    ………………..,/¯../
    ………………./…./
    …………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
    ………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
    ……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
    ………\……………..’…../
    ……….”…\………. _.·´
    …………\…………..(
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