Suicidal Veteran Wait Times

Suicidal Veteran Forced To Wait Over 15 Weeks For Needed Psychiatric Care

Suicidal Veteran Wait Times

At least four veterans were likely harmed due to consultation wait times affecting almost half of all veterans seeking care including on suicidal veteran.

That suicidal veteran was admitted for inpatient care while waiting seven weeks following waiting over eight weeks for a psychiatric consultation the veteran ultimately missed.

In all, the veteran experienced mental health decline due to multiple failures by Montana VA to ensure the veteran received timely access to care. IG documented numerous failures including a lack of documentation and urgency when addressing the veteran’s mental health needs.

Does his treatment sound anything like that explained in the Guide To VA Mental Health Services For Veterans & Families?

Once you take a look at the overall VISN 19 wait time numbers VA OIG buried in this report, you will need to ask whether VA is really making a dent in the wait time crisis.

VISN 19 Wait Times By Facility

This suicidal veteran was not alone when seeking needed care within the VISN 19 healthcare system. Delays were erratic from facility to facility, but show veterans still experience problems seeking care:

VA OIG Wait Time Numbers VISN 19

How many billions did VA receive from Congress to fix the wait time crisis only to maintain unacceptable wait times? What will it really take to fix this problem?

Suicidal Veteran Wait Story

According to the VA OIG report released Friday exposing multiple problems at the Montana VA:

The patient was a male in his early 30s who had a history of post-traumatic stress disorder. The patient had a job that involved working at an out-of-state location for several weeks at a time. In 2014, as part of the process for establishing care at the system, he saw a counselor for an initial mental health assessment. The patient did not report taking any mental health-related medications, such as antidepressants, at that time. The counselor noted a plan to refer the patient for counseling at a Vet Center and psychiatric medication management. The counselor documented calling the Vet Center, and the patient was scheduled for an appointment with a psychiatrist for approximately 8 weeks later.  

The patient did not come and did not call to cancel the appointment with the psychiatrist. Three days after the scheduled appointment that the patient missed, he contacted the Veterans Crisis Line and reported experiencing suicidal thoughts. With agreement from the patient, the Veterans Crisis Line staff referred the patient to the system’s suicide prevention coordinator. The coordinator documented that she made an unsuccessful attempt to contact the patient the following day and left a voicemail. The EHR does not contain documentation that the patient returned the coordinator’s call.

In 2015, the patient saw a system mental health nurse as a walk-in after an appointment with a Vet Center therapist. That therapist referred the patient to the mental health clinic because the patient informed the therapist that he had made a suicide attempt within the last week. The patient denied suicidal thoughts, plans, or intent to the nurse. The nurse documented reviewing her plan. As part of that plan, she encouraged the patient to reschedule his appointment with a psychiatrist, consider a referral for evaluation of substance use disorder, and go to the Emergency Department (ED) if he experienced a crisis. The nurse also indicated that the patient had limited availability for a psychiatry appointment since he would be out-of-state for work for several weeks and would then return to Montana for one week the following month. The patient did not reschedule his psychiatry appointment.

Five days later, the Vet Center therapist contacted the mental health clinic to notify them that she had received two calls from the patient the previous day. During those calls, the patient told the therapist that he was out-of-state and was having suicidal thoughts. The therapist advised the patient to go to the ED, but noted that the patient seemed reluctant to follow that advice because he was working out-of-state at the time and was unable to easily travel to an ED. The same day, the primary care provider (PCP) ordered an in-house, routine telemental health consult for the patient to be seen by a psychiatrist. Over the following week, staff documented multiple attempts to contact the patient to schedule an appointment. An appointment was scheduled for the patient to see a psychiatrist in about 7 weeks. The patient’s PCP subsequently noted in the patient’s EHR that the patient needed to be seen by either a VA or non-VA psychiatrist within a week. Three days later, the PCP received a reply that non-VA provider wait time was the same as VA wait time.

Before the date of the scheduled outpatient psychiatry appointment, the patient was transferred from a community hospital to another VA hospital. The patient was admitted to the inpatient psychiatry unit for suicidal ideation. At the time of admission to the VA hospital, the patient noted that he had been admitted to a community hospital the prior month for suicidal ideation.

In conclusion, the patient had delayed psychiatric care due to several factors, including the challenges of trying to schedule an appointment for a patient who worked out-of-state for several weeks at a time as well as documented limited access to outpatient psychiatric care at the system and in the community. It is noteworthy that the patient’s PCP did not initiate a medication, such as antidepressant, while the patient was waiting for an appointment in mental health. That provider did not document the rationale for ordering a consult rather than attempting to treat the patient in the primary care setting, so it is unclear whether this decision was a reflection of the PCP’s confidence to provide that care. Further, system staff did not refer the patient to a community provider because of observed limited access in the community. Nonetheless, the patient had multiple indications for urgent scheduling an appointment at the time of submission of the outpatient psychiatry consult. More timely care could have helped to avert the mental health decline that contributed to his suicidal thoughts and need for inpatient admission.

So how long will it take for President Donald Trump and Company to reign in the bureaucrats holding back the necessary reforms veterans desperately need fixed now?


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  1. @Test 1:
    –Veteran Drone Program—_______

  2. @Test:
    –Veteran Drone Program—_______

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    ░░░░░░███████ ]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▃————–))))>…….)(………()/

  4. test:
    ………………. ___,@
    ……. ..\ \___)–(_______r_p_

  5. Nothing surprises me anymore , They just doing their job: “Delay, deny, wait till they Die”!

  6. This is nothing new here Ben. Remember the Madigan PTSD scandal. Follow the money and the truth and if any of my fellow veterans get a chance go and see “Thank you for your Service” documentary by Tom Donahue. And features Dr. Mark C. Russell a retired US Navy psychology and primary advocate for a Behavioural Health Corps and someone I personally know.

    I will not recommend going and seeing the movie “Thank you for your Service” directed by Jason Hall and based on the book by David Finkel. It`s a whitewashing of facts and a typical Hollyweird fluff piece of government incompetence.
    And it has Amy Schumer playing a role, enough said.

  7. Oh.
    Yeah rest up.
    Big day tomorrow. I’ve gotta get outta bed….well, that’s about it.

  8. Haha.
    Yeah I just looked it up too.
    I thought those fucks I pissed off on my way out put some crazy shit on there. Guess not

  9. Here’s what is used now:


  10. @LP – It means one or the other;

    MBK – Completion of active duty service commitment or expiration of term of service, USAF
    MBK – Expiration of Term of Service

    Look up your Separation “”

    Cut and paste between the ” – – ” Put the above link in your favorites folder. @Ex va, good luck with your paper work. Going back to bed. God bless you Brothers and your families too.

    1. LP, here is a list of codes, “”

      Have a goodnight. Talk later.

  11. @Ex va,@LP: My vision is getting screwed up again from the Morphine. I better call it a night. You guys have a great night. Hope you all sleep well, and God bless you and your families. Talk soon.

    1. @@cj, goodnight and God Bless, sorry about your vision problems. I need to get off too. Damn headaches. Talk to you soon. Get some good rest.

  12. If it’s any comfort, turn out veterans the world over are getting screwed over by their respective governments. We are all treated equally around the globe.

  13. @Ex va,@LP; So much corruption, and the damn government has known about all this crap all along. I bet alot of that stolen money goes to re election campaigns …………..bastards….

  14. LP, look back up in the comments, we were talking about that very idea, some excellent ideas people had to take backe the system. I know we can do it. and we need to start soon. This summer would be great.

  15. Another veteran here posted this video as well look on youtube for : Psychiatry in the Military: The Hidden Enemy—Full Documentary by CCHR Documentaries

    That will open your eyes as well.

    1. @cj, illinois is dead last in benefits for Veterans??? What the hell????? No wonder i can’t get any help.

  16. Each state, can coordinate within its borders to get this moving. Then a combined effort if needed.

  17. @Ex va, @LP: That is the entire problem in a nutshell, no accountablility, and profits over vets.
    LP there is a video on youtube that will really piss you off. Turns out VA hospital directors have been found to be stealing veterans beniifits in the neighborhood of around 500 million per month. They turn you down for claims then use your claim number to open an account in a bogus name at several banks then cash all the veterans checks. Nice right? Here is a link to the video “”

    1. @cj, those ********, it figures that they could not, not be involved in criminal activity against Veterans. Makes me sick. Pieces of ****!!!!!!!!!!!

  18. M.e.d.i.c.a.l.
    Anyway, combat or no combat, you’re Veterans. Better than civis any day of the week.
    I don’t care how much money, or popular on social media, or what company a civilian owns…they still can’t stand next us and hold their heads high.
    These fake doctors and va staff that are perpetuating the Fight we have to fight to Attempt to get what’s due, will be squashed. Their hopes and dreams of coasting through life on backs of Vets is coming to an end.

    We need a coordinator. We need a group of engineers. And most of all, we need a group willing to fight the Domestic terrorists that run and work in the va.

  19. @ cj, doing better, got some of my forms done. Lol. It took me hours to complete. I just have to do a few more paperwork items to get completed. It sucks all this paperwork. Geesh.

  20. The VA down here can’t get their note taking skills up to par. The VA up there can’t let go of some cash to actually fix Vets. It’s a joke. The whole medial system is For profit.

    1. LP: Not a bad winter this year. yes I can see how the cold would effect things of that nature. I am reluctant to get any kind of implant. I am stuck here in the north, the heart meds they have me on don’t let my body cool down properly to live in a warmer climate or I would get out of here as fast as I could. I would love to live in TX, my only living aunt is in The Colony TX, and you guys have great places to shoot. we have nothing up here.

    1. LP I’m wondering what goes on in TX clinics. My DR transferred from FT Worth to Calif & I swear she’s afraid of her own shadow & the mistruths she wrote in my file notes still have me in shock. Everyone knows you don’t mess with Texan’s but California folks we’re usually laid back, calm & easy going

      1. There is Literally One guy in the clinic close to me that won’t fuck up a note. He makes it his duty to accurately report what’s happening and what is said, with side notes for context so the notes aren’t misconstrued. Everyone else, and I mean everyone else goes out of there way to leave things out and Incorrectly annotate things on my file. They Also, go back in and edit out items that watched them add while in the appointment!!

      2. LP Thank You, this DR helped me put my sweater on after a half asses shoulder exam, she then wrote in my notes I had no trouble putting my sweater on which I challenged her notes by email & the note was then changed to Had no trouble wearing her sweater. And her reply to my challenge email was “I stand by my notes”, nothing more.

      3. Nitewish, if that happens again, send a letter to the Privacy Officer explaining why the note is wrong, and how you want it corrected.

        It takes it out of her hands. The Privacy Officer has to respond, the likely will get the Chief of Staff involved, and the provider will have to respond in writing.

        I stand by my notes won’t cut it in a response to the Chief of Staff.

      4. @91Veteran: I did just what you suggested and when the privacy oficer completed her invetigation, that is exactly the answer I was given “the social worker stands by her notes, but you have the right to put in a letter explaining your side as well” or a letter of disagreement.

      5. I would ask who I can appeal that decision to.

        In the instance where I did this, the worthless PCP admitted mistakes were made, my records were redacted as if the mistake was never made, and the rest of the notes that I did not dispute were kept.

        Doesn’t matter. I have copies of my letter, the Privacy Officers inquiry, the PCPs response in writing, and what the Chief of Staff said about it also in writing.

        All obtained through FOIA.

      6. Interesting. My PCP during my last appointment for her notes accurate, but in their little computer program where they can pick and choose pre-typed answers, she couldn’t even make the correct selection.

        I looked at my notes on MyHeatheVet, and found an answer in her notes in which she could not perform a certain assessment because of some chronic problem essentially making it impossible to perform the assessment.

        I sent her a secure message quoting the note asking her to explain. She responded saying she made a mistake when choosing the selection, and then couldn’t change it after the note was saved. She said she talked with the IT people about changing it in some way, but couldn’t.

        I don’t care much about it because I now have it on record in secure messaging, but I do wonder about the competence of someone not able to select a proper, pre-typed answer.

      7. You Must screen shot the secure messages, AND copy and paste the contents of each message into many different locations.
        i.e. print them out, and save copines on flash drives.
        Those messages I had proving the docs were wrong…where they admitted it, we’re Purged from the secure messages The very same day I called them to tell them I had the records in hand and was going to the local news station.

      8. I have heard of secure messages disappearing, so I do screen shot them and email them to a different account.

        At some point, they will be caught doing this. A credible IG investigation would be interesting, but I would expect a hard drive mistake or systems admin mistake excuse would be given.

        Which wouldn’t explain how these mistakes only happen with embarrassing content.

  21. I know you didn’t write that they had a right to be, it sounded better in my head than on paper.

  22. They had a right to be huh?
    Shit, if it was my job to treat and care for someone, and I treated someone like me with as much neglect/disrespect/total lack of care like they did…I’d be looking behind me every couple seconds till that person died.
    Now imagine you do that to so a couple hundred Vets. Fucking people have some stones to treat Vets like they do. Their stones keep getting bigger with each time they don’t get punched in the neck. They’d fucking cry “I’m a Victim” to the fucling news too and that shit would make it onto global stage of media hype. Making the rest of the Vets suffer more for one faggot doctor getting what they deserve…

    1. @LP: I think what pisses most of us off the most is how they treat us like we are some kind of mooches or kids.
      They need to be reminded of why they even have a job to begin with, It is to serve you, not the other way around. Your right, each time they get away with something, or are backed up by you getting punished in some manner it makes them bolder. The entire agency is rotten to the core. I am not a combat veteran, but you guys that are deserve way better treatment then your getting. Maybe I get away with more becaue I am an old bastard. I still give em hell when I see any veteran being mistreated, I don’t give a shit if the ban me from the asylum.

  23. I guess my conversations with psychological services about combat, that aren’t supposed to be broadcast to All staff, the doc was scared.

    1. @Lp: Geez these people are thin skinned. All you were basicly saying is to stop disrespecting you, and lets get the appointments straightened out. Goood lord, I have actually physically threatened them with bodily harm. I was threatened back of course, but that was the end of it. They really need to hire proffesional people that know how to deal with veterans.

  24. They felt threatened is what they all said. From the person at the counter, to the nurses, to the psych staff. They said it was passive threats or something like that

    1. @LP, they felt threaten because you know the truth about them and their tactics of denying you healthcare. That is what they do blow smoke screens when they are exposed for their canceling appointments on you and degrading you. They are the threat, they let Veterans die from their negligence.

      1. @Ex va: Hey Ex, how are you tonight? Everytime I hear about another vet getting disrespected by the VA………it make my blood boil. Who the hell do they think they are? And when did it become okay for them to think they can treat veterans the way they do?

      2. @cj, i feel the same as you do. They have no boundaries to their crimes and no one monitors their behaviors. The have no reverence for the suffering and pain they cause others. They fit the description of criminal monsters.

  25. “Y’all think this is game and you can laugh at me, walk out without helping and end visits without notifying me. I have an appointment today and will be discussing these this with you. “

    1. @LP Peterson, L: Oh that would be something to see. They really do that with you? I have made some pretty bad threats but no escorts yet.

      1. That’s just it. I didn’t even come close to threatening. Just got angry at an email, the way I was Not being treated, and the doc literally laughing in my face when I told her some of my symptoms. I responded in an email that said:

  26. @cj – Hey Brother, I’m getting tired. Eyes burning. Body calling for rest. Will talk later. Good night, and God bless you and your family cj. All of my energy got burned out quick from me being ticked off. Good night.

  27. @cj – Did you ever eat sushi? The Japanese make smoked barbqued eel that is fantastic. I eat sea cucumbers raw, smoked, or dry, seaweed, squid, and almost anything else that is from the saltwater. This referred to as Ono [Hawaii for good tasting] is an excellent white fish. Texture like chicken. No fishy taste to the meat.

    1. @ANutterVet: Some things I will never eat, sushi is one of those things. My wife and son both love sushi, so they will go out to dinner without me lol. I am okay with that. Only fish I will eat is walley, northern and largemouth bass. yeah I know, italians eat all kinds of sea food…………….not this kid. lol

      1. @cj – I guess anything uncooked is out of the question? I also eat what is called black aama crab. These crabs crawl all over the lava flow next on the water line. Lets eat Bruddah. The only thing that I don’t care for is called vanah. Raw sea urchins. Its basically the testies. No good Bro.

      2. Cj, you mention eating northern. I grew up on them because they were the fish that were always biting anytime you went fishing. I still enjoy catching them and eating them are still good depending where they are caught.

        Catching them in North Dakota where I grew up, they taste good because the water is cold and cleaner. I’ve found catching them further south, they aren’t so good because the water is warmer. Makes them taste different.

        Some people refer to them as slough sharks because of their teeth and their fight.

        If you ever get the chance to try pickled northern, you should. Much better than pickled Herring if you have ever had that.

      3. @91 Veteran: Always Northern, northern………… I feel like calling my wife ka ka kadie Anyway…..yes nothing south of Minnesota.

  28. @cj – I’ve been dealing with this cheap generic for many, many months. I let the VA know the first time that they prescribed it to me. I even showed them the two tabs. Its supposed to be the same medicine, but the latter one doesn’t work as well as the previous. Therefore, I’m not getting pain relief, plus I’ve been idle for quite a while. The VA knows everything about my condition. They are too fucking slow. I yelled out, while I informed them that I’m basically shrinking away. How fucking dumb.

    1. @ANutterVet: You know your right about different generics being different in strength and dilivery systems. What is reall bad is when you do say something about it and they have the attitude like, yes dear, thats right dear, whatever you say dear. Now go eat your puddng and be a good boy.

      1. @cj – I shared with my PCP that I had this problem in the private sector and the pharmacy worked with me to find a generic that worked for me. Not the VA. This is all my fault because the active medicine is in the tab. They put it right in your lap. As a matter of fact, there actually was no discussion about this, only what I shared with them. I was so fucking pissed off that they didn’t recognize this about some generics working differently in people. If she was a dude, I think I would have gotten in her face a little more. An employee did knock on the door during my appointment because I was raising my voice to the pair of the rejects.

      2. Oh oh. Don’t fucking yell at the VA…they might put you on the naughty list and you,like me, can be pat-searched/wander & then escorted by police for your entire visit.

      3. @ANutterVet:LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I’m afriad to answer that one…. yes go ahead and call me chicken……..youd be right lol.

  29. Y’all said it all. @Cj, I’m so glad you’re part of this blog. Along with Dennis, 91, NutterVet, Don K., Seymour, Namnibor, and Windguy, along with so many others; I thank you. What y’all said today, is about all we have left to do. I don’t advocate violence, but this is more like self defense. The VA is killing veterans off any way they can. They have stolen more tax dollars than anyone in any prison. We complain, they dump a file. If they get caught, they get a raise. When they are responsible for the death of a Veteran, they get transferred. If, or when they are found responsible for more than one death, they are promoted. As far as I am concerned, the VA started this war. I’m tired of just laying down. I’ve also had it.

    1. @Jo3n: Hey Jo3n, Thank you for saying so, I am just the blog jester lol, noway am I as smart as the rest of you guys. I am more like an automatic pitbull. point aim and fire me at the enemy, if you miss take a quick follow up shot. I will eventually get to the target.

    2. @Jo3n – Jo3n, I hear you. Its so bad on my end that I’m at my wits end with these people. I don’t like to loose my demeanor, but when I get to the point that I’m in fear of my life, I let them know that this is where I stand with them. They hardly care with what I’ve shared with them. My trust is completely dead to them.

      @cj – Yeah, pistachio is one of my ice cream favs. And, old fashioned black cherry [hard to find real one]. Did I explain my pain situation enough for you. I feel like I’m stuck. And, I know that it is taking a toll on my wife as well. This hurts me to the core of my being. Something the VA NEVER talks about. How fucking dumb. The experts?

      1. @ANutterVet: Yes I understood what you said. I was just asking if there was something that happened recently that made the pain much worse. It is bad enough when your dealing with that level of pain you are on a daily bassis, much worse if there is something that agrivated it even more. Even for the VA who is known for handing out meds like candy, I can’t understand why they are not listening to you, when it’s already in their dna to just hand you a fist full of drool me nows. It is almost like they are doing this to you intentionaly. If that is the case, I will hop in the car, take enough morph with me to make the trip, and I will show them what disruptive behaviour is all about.

      2. @cj – Ok, sounds good. I just need to save up some buckos to purchase something that we can party on. I’ll make a call over to the islands to get some mahi mahi. Sound good?

  30. @cj – Steven Colbert, CBS Late Night. If it wasn’t for the current POTUS, Colbert wouldn’t have a nightly monologue at the beginning of his show. That’s all Colbert talks about is Trump. About time this dude gets something original. I may be laughed once or twice. I’m going to change the channel to Russian Television [RT]. At least we can trust them? Right?

    1. @ANutterVet: Man I can’t stand libs in any form, and tv libs make me wanaa go postal. Exactly how the fuck does any breathing thing, think the likes of Jimmy Fallon, or Colbert or the rest of that fucked up liberal bucked of dreggs is in any way funny? Like watching 2 year olds is all it is, and if that is what the people in this country really like as entertainment, then it is no suprise to me how this country got so fucked up in such a short period of time……………….mind boggling.

      Isn’t it a shame when us veterans go to rt to get the real new? Just sayin….

      1. @cj – I find RT to be more truthful than the other media outlets. I’m eating pistachio ice cream cone right now, so I’m almost there.

  31. My fault, I’m a little slow tonight in comprehending the issues of others. I thought I’d be sort of selfish and only think about myself. Why not, others do it. Plus, I want to fit in with the crowd. In this way, I won’t stand out and show my own strengths. I only want to reveal my weaknesses so that I can be taken advantage of. I just want to be used, and then thrown away. That what I’m use too. I only want to be abused. That’s all I understand, things that are not normal. The abnormality of the human species. A total fuck up. HELPPPPPP MEEEEEEE !!!, HELPPPPPP MEEEEEEE !!!, HELPPPPPP MEEEEEEE !!! Part human and fly on the wall.

  32. @ANutterVet,@91 Veteran,@Ex va: Nutter, I was just reading 91 experience with a private provider. I am sure your experience has been the same as his. I only go to the VA so I don’t lose the benifit. I am in total agreement with 91 about the conditions and attitudes of the private sector vs the VA. It is indeed night and day, and 91 hit the nail on the head about the outdated asylum description. I never could put my finger on it, but that is exactly how I view the VA. Oh sure once in a while they hire all illegals to put lipstick on the pig, I mean build an addition. But the belly of the beast never changes. An asylum is what it reminds me of and an asylum is what I will refere to it as from now on. Excellent job 91 Veteran.

  33. I’ve been on pain meds since 2001. And, the VA has never tested me for any low levels of endorphins, other hormones, or any other type of organic bodily compounds that may have been effected by the long term use of opiates. Ain’t this a bunch of shit? Here is an agency that treats Vets for pain, PTSD, and other ailments from serving in or out of battle, but they can’t keep up with the proper care of what they should be doing in the first place. This is fucking stupid. The VA should be paying us Veterans for giving these union protected rejects a fucking yob. No misspelling.

    1. @cj – Knok, knok, knok, you still there. Shootz, lets get them there fingas a tappin bro.

      1. @ANutterVet; yes still here, was having some browser trouble. Sorry I can’t help you with MS I gave them up many many moons ago, and never looked back. Arch linux for me. Ok now I need to read your comments so I can continue the conversation.

    2. @ANutterVet: Your assuming that they actually care about what they are doing. I get the feeling they take blood tests only for educational purposes. And of course to make sure your taking your opiates and not selling them. I wonder, if they did take test to check your liver, kidney etc for long term med damage. Would they even bother to tell you if something was abnormal?

  34. @cj – That’s why I don’t want to go, their backwards, and I lost the element of surprise.

      1. @cj – No crashing here. But, my handle and email address stays in the boxes after I post. That’s good. I did receive duplicate emails. And, just recently, my start button and action center will not operate. I need to contact Microsoft to get this repaired. I’m pretty sure it’s because of corrupted files from new MS Window 10 updates. Nice huh. MS fucks up again, and don’t put a repair up. Corrupted files from updates have been happening for quite sometime.

  35. No Veteran, let alone no human being anywhere, should be essentially be asked to be placed on hold when seeking help with suicidal ideations, they should get help now, but not by means of sending the local police to quite possibly cause any needless confrontation, just a non-threatening somebody to talk to that will *listen* and not make you feel further pushed and pinched up against that mental corner scary place…and I cannot stress how helpful a pet(s) is to one’s emotional state. You will be quite amazed how whether it’s a dog or cat, how in-tune they actually are with YOUR moods, your routines, and unlike most humans, pets give unconditional love and trust.
    Hell, if reptiles are your thing, or even fish…whatever works for you! (ok, spiders would just be weird)

  36. @91Veteran – These dumb fucks couldn’t even stand by my side while getting our new service dog trained. The VA didn’t spend any monies or even offered to help me when I lost my previous 4-legged partner. They can kiss my ass. There all in bed together. I seen and read too much. It doesn’t take that long to be informed.

    Veterans, don’t give it another thought. What you happening, is really happening. Don’t give these mother fuckers the benefit of the doubt. They’ll use you and abuse you to the max. Don’t be fooled by their façade promises.

    1. I’m so pissed off that I’m not putting in all the words. But you know what I’m saying anyway.

  37. In reading this, I see lots of indifference to delivering care to a veteran that clearly was in need of urgent care, and lots of ass-covering by documenting the minimum effort they put forth.

    Hell even the IG is helping cover ass by titling their chart as patients who “appeared” to experience delays.

    How long will it take Trump to reign in bureaucrats?

    How long will it take for such pathetic, uncaring, indifferent, ass covering hacks to be fired is what I ask.

  38. @cj – I’m bedridden unless I take more pain pills, and I refuse to do that. Then if I do, my body will get use to that dosage and want the same amount later. You know how this goes. And, I’m still waiting for help with my PTSD. My symptoms are off the charts. I’m super edgy and sensitive. Trust level isn’t even measureable. I have been upfront with the VA, been yelling out for help, and no one cares. Nothing but the same old circle jerking. And, if I do the ultimate, then what? I get my name in the papers? May be? Will the papers say why I did such a thing? Probably not. The VA’s tentacles run deep into our business and private world. They aren’t going to look bad, they have a physical brick and mortar building. And, they carry no pain meds in their ER. Give me a fucking break. Out of pain meds because their fucking employees are stealing them. A few articles about that issue, and then no more are printed.

    1. @ANutterVet: Your right in not trusting the VA, Exactly what have they done to gain your trust? Another screwing over is all. Someone earlier said it right, these assholes that work at the VA make real good moolah, to not take care of you. They go home to a good life as they treat us like low lifes. The politicians don’t give a shit. The VA doesn’t give a shit. We only give a shit about each other. Doing the ulitimate won’t cure anything Nutter, you already know this. Play the game their way, go the the er and tell them your critical. Then maybe you will get what you should have gotten in the first place. Backwards acting agency.

  39. @cj – The VA has negatively effected my family enough. I was ok until I received treatment from these cock suckers. At this fucking point, I have no trust with anyone in whom I don’t have direct contact with. I’m tired, sore, hurt, and in the VA’s eyes, forgotten. I know how I sound Brother, I’m fucking fed up. You can’t reason with someone when they already have their minds made up. I’ve never been so defensive in my whole life. Trump or no Trump. He’s too slow as well. The loss of one Veteran due to the lack of proper care is too much. Are you ready to go the golf course country club for a nice dinner? Fuck them

    1. @ANutterVet: LOL @ the country club dinner. Screw those assholes. I know it is hard to do, but don’t let them rent space in your head. They can’t afford your rates, know what I mean? Justice will come by thy own hands. A day of reconning is on the horizon. I can feel it in my bones.

    2. Only if I can leave a few Babe Ruth candy bars in that pool. 🙂 I’d love to see the privileged make a grand theatrical spectacle acting as if they have never in their lives seen a piece of poo.

      If I were super privileged rich, would even pay Bill Murray to fish it out for them.

  40. @cj, @Namnibor, @Lem, @Windguy- You can’t reason with people who have shit for brains. They only understand pain and taking something away from them. Like a parent applying corporate punishment to an unruly adolescent. Get the dam belt, and whoop their asses until understanding passes through the blood brain barrier. The VA understands Evidence Based Criteria Medicine.

    1. If I didn’t have shit for brains I wouldn’t have tried to hide from the draft by enlisting. Nobody told me. All I got was flag-waving shit, bitching about those damn commie-fag-junkies protesting the war, and “I’m already sending your brother through college – tough-titties fatty”. Picture a bunch of bearded, mostly fat commonly hobbling vets trying very hard to be polite and tell some already tatted idiot or some high fructose corn syrup fatty that serving his country will only result in the destruction and economic invasion of some other peoples shithole country, and the promises of a nation to care for him if he gets fucked up will be broken before he can apply for the fucking benefit. No fucking safe harbor in the military boy – RUN FATTY RUNNN

      Damn – where’d I put the mop

      1. @Windguy, @cj, @Namnibor, @91Veteran – No brandname mops today, only generics from Shanghai, China exporters. Where is stomping Trump? At the dam club house again? Pull his ass out of their. The MSM is going to start making a mockery out of Trump if he keeps on escaping to eat those luxurious dinners. While we struggle to putting boxed macaroni and powdered fucking cheese on the table. FUCK! @cj, bring some tomatoes for the macaroni and cheese. Lets liven it up a bit. Shit. Where the hell did every body go? Need backup. I’m going back to Hawaii and go spearfishing. Kill, dress it out, and put them on the grill. Aloha Vet Bruddahs.

      2. Now I don’t use the right spellings of my words. Going to take some more pain meds. Do a double dose, only joking. But I will get some 151 sweet dark rum, a bag of big fucking buds with no seeds and smells like pine trees. Some killer Hawaiian budda’s. Piss test me all they want. They already have. I told them that they weren’t taking care of my pain, and I feared for my life.

  41. @cj – I’m still hurting to the point that I have payback in my mind. The fucking VA has taken so much of my life from me, that has made me so fucking pissed off that I can’t think straight. All I know is that set the smoke screen as hot and thick as we can get it. Don’t worry about how these dumb fucks feel. Veterans are hurting every day, and some go to the ultimate point for relief. I’ve been in intense pain going on a week or more. Reaching my limit, where I don’t give a fuck about our politicians. And, I don’t like what I’ve read in the current and past article on Ben’s blog. FUCK THEM! They don’t care!!!

    All I read is about other Veterans and how they have been screwed by a system that is supposed to have compassion for Veterans. The main theme from the VA is to fuck over Veterans and their families. I’m fed up. I don’t trust the VA at all. I fucking pissed.

      1. @ANutterVet: This is the most angry I have seen you to date. Your usually the voice of reason, and right now? there is no reason, why we are continually treated like slug lube, or duck butter, or banana grease. Hell with it all. Let’s rock n roll.

    1. @ANutterVet: I hear you loud and clear. I think it’s time, and plenty here have great ideas how to make it happen. I hope this pain your having leaves quickly. Days get too damn long when your in pain. We all need to get good and fed up and do it to it. Git er done.

  42. Regarding the suicidal wait story. It’s one story, indicative or demonstrative of administrative failings the VA, questionable practice of psychiatry in general. The patient in this case did what most vets have done when slipping into the depths of PTSD and suicidal behavior. PTSD is the result of horrors of war, and surviving it connotes the strength of a warrior. Veterans – us – delay seeking help, often until it’s too late.

    Sure, the VA could have more shrinks on staff or waiting in private sector wings. They damn will should. Criticizing the PCP for not doling out anti-depressants is a bit paradoxical. The “private” sector has been – rightfully accused of handing out SSRIs like candy without referrals by their GPs to psych help. Is the VA lazy or playing by a more sensible set of rules? Damned if I know. I’m new to this shit too (or only recently admitting to it). In my own experience, efficacy of help depends on the individual care-giver. In the late 70s the guy in Minneapolis told me to “next time, pull the trigger”. My current journey began about three years ago with me still in denial about my reality. My first tele-visit with a drug pushing VA shrink left me in a state of further denial. My PCP, who never gave me warm and fuzzies about his competence, was instrumental in getting me into counselling. Her best service was to refer me to a Vet Center group where I also received excellent one-on-one counselling. I then tele-met with the same VA shrink again and got on what is still a lite dose of meds. In the last four years I went from a very comfortable consulting practice to resurrected nightmares and near-total isolation, and certainly no clients/income. The last six months with the Vet Center and the VA shrink has made all the difference, and I hope to get back on my horse and ride in the next couple months, with two very promising prospects.

    i didn’t get the help until I listened. I felt I struck out twice in my attempts to get help – it was easier to blame what I felt were disinterested care-givers. But my PCP, first counselor and, myself persisted.

    The individual cited in Ben’s article received attention from numerous attempts. Would he have responded, met/kept appointments had he gotten a VA shrink sooner? Not to be judgmental, but maybe not – or maybe.

    Finally, Ben asks if this administration will get the VAs shit together. I smell a more polished sell of lip service but not much change. Sending in Leinenkugelbeersteinboy as Trump’s private fixer/mole won’t be enough. There are no heroes in Washington. It’s odd. Vets as a group are happy to collaborate and hop on their Harley’s to prevent religious crazies from fucking up a funeral for someone else’s soldier-child. But they won’t hop on their Harleys (soon to be walkers and wheel chairs) protest. A million women can coordinate a nearly ad-hoc international protest in a very short period of time. But veterans can’t or won’t? My sensitive new age guy side says I don’t want to be sexist, but that shit is downright embarrassing.

    1. @Windguy: I agree with your last paragraph completely. I have said over and over again, The only way to fix this mess is to march on DC in such nunbers the entire world will take notice. Only then will anybody listen. Untill that day comes we can sit here till we collect dust and not a damn thing will change. I am ready when you are, let’s roll.

      1. A veterans’ march won’t be treated the same as the women’s march. A McArthur like will be resurrected. And what has “Rolling Thunder” accomplished? All that happens with marches is a lot of noise. Show me actual legislation that has happened since the 1960’s because of organized marches. The question is who is going to lead? The leaders always go down with one shot.

        And the King Marches wouldn’t have gotten shit if it hadn’t been for the Black Panthers, Black Muslims, etc. that were willing to bring out the stick. It would have been just like the last 50 years without the bus locker bombings and other incidents of that time.

        Don’t waste your time with a march. The bankers have them blocked. Oklahoma City got results. There still isn’t a confirmed director of the AFT and that has dampened their aggression just a little.

      2. Colonel McArthur became General McArthur and ultimately WWII Pacific Commander by kicking the WWI Veterans off the DC Mall with his troops and fixed bayonets who were trying to get WWI benefits promised in their march on DC.

        “From 1919 to 1922, MacArthur served as Superintendent of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, where he attempted a series of reforms. His next assignment was in the Philippines, where in 1924 he was instrumental in quelling the Philippine Scout Mutiny. In 1925, he became the Army’s youngest major general. He served on the court martial of Brigadier General Billy Mitchell and was president of the American Olympic Committee during the 1928 Summer Olympics in Amsterdam. SEEE In 1930, he became Chief of Staff of the United States Army. As such, he was involved in the expulsion of the Bonus Army protesters from Washington, D.C. END in 1932, and the establishment and organization of the Civilian Conservation Corps. He retired from the US Army in 1937 to become Military Advisor to the Commonwealth Government of the Philippines.” “”

      3. Lem,

        At the risk of repeating from a previous post, I wouldn’t march on DC. Hit the military security complex where it hurts. They need troops. Hang out at recruiting stations, high schools (leave your dope at home), any “career day” functions. Simple DIY signs, “Ask Me If It Was Worth It”, or “Don’t Do It Kid” – shit like that. A sustained effort during spring and summer (aka “desperate teenager decision season”) and none of those lying sacks of shit recruiters will make their quota. National Guard numbers are already not being maintained because of perceived deployment risk by candidates. The NG is no longer safe-haven-service. The economy is doing just well enough to give kids other options. Let the DoD bring it up in Washington. Who needs national bankster owned lefty/righty media? Hometown media would be all over it. High schools already “tolerate” recruiters. Well behaved veteran information sessions on career days would be welcomed.
        I don’t know the stats – yet. But I’m guessing from my experience (admittedly dated) that ranks are not filled from mass urban areas – too rich and educated or too poor and stupid. Focus on small towns, where small chapters of vets can be very effective.

        Ooops – there I go again. I’ll get mop

      4. @Windguy: I am glad you understood what Lem meant. I like your idea’s, and………I am thinking they WOULD work. We need to come out of the WOOD work……….see what I did there Lem? You need to lower your education level a notch to talk to me.

      5. @cj – What Lem is saying, is that a march will accomplish nothing unless there is some measurable violence involved. Lets wait for them in their own parking lots when they go to their cars. Only joking. No threats here, unless you enter my household with your dam bullshit. cj, get your metal ready. Tired of all the asinine fuck offs.

      6. @ANutterVet: I may not be the sharpest butter knife in the back. But I can still operate any trigger with great profficiency. How are you tonight Nutter?

      7. Doesn’t have to necessarily involve violence. The Magna Carta March worked with only the threat significant enough to let the Kings Army know they were going to have to kill the serfs that fed them or King John would have to grant redress. Origin of the Bill of Rights.

      8. I’m in if we carry pitchforks and scythes. No since going if you don’t say we mean business.

      9. If you’re going to have pitchforks and scythes, might as well add the torches and all we huddled Veterans marching up to the VA’s Frankenstein Castle like a bunch of angry villagers tired of desecrated corpses coming to life all the time.

        Can I be Igor? I like electricity. 🙂

    2. @Windguy,

      I like that. May I also suggest a little thing on the world’s stage that would toss out the proposal and accusation to the World Courts for the USA and The Veteran’s Admn. for Crimes Against Humanity for the well-documented craziness and malfeasant scandals with the VA and treatment of Veterans…but here’s the catchy part that *would* garner the World’s Attention; also bring into the equation about our Gulf War Vets and Open Burn Pits and Depleted Uranium…while in the ball of wax go ahead and bring-in Vietnam Veterans and anyone else exposed to Agent Orange…and our USA and Veteran’s Admn. is STILL refusing to properly aid….Veterans Seeking Relief to these crimes that also affect all corners of the Globe.

      (or something along those lines…)

      Last catch why this could potentially work very well: Holding POTUS Trump to his word to FIX THE VA, and as much as *some* foreign gov’ts distaste Pres. Trump, as well as a whole herd of Democrats and fair share of Repub’s and oh, there’s the PRESS that Pres. Trump has royally pissed off…I think on the World’s Stage on our terms…we could get relief and would not take a massive march initially on D.C. to do this: Social Media worked great for the ‘Arab Spring’, well, at least the initial part of that, but you get my drift in using the weaknesses of all against them to help US?
      Rant Out.

      (if it sounded just too silly, just ignore my burst of optimism because I’m spent already)

      1. @namnibor: Hell no,,,,,,,,,,,,,it sounded perfectly sound to me. You and Windguy got me pumpped. I am ready.

      2. I’m talking ‘The Shame Game’ because we all know most congress critters and POTUS’s do not like to eat crow, and those that do, well, they are like shamed freak ex congress critter Larry Craig….daylight really makes their skin crawl.

        Larry Craig was the congress critter notorious for spending an awful lot of time in airport bathrooms and got caught in a sting in Minneapolis Airport many many moons ago. Wasn’t the first time either.
        It was the shame game that made Larry Craig retire finally and haunt some stall in an airport near you.
        Surely it could also work on such a large ego Pres. Trump possesses. Not saying this ego is a bad thing, I call it confidence, but Pres. Trump has already displayed personality traits that show he’s really concerned about “perceptions”, so maybe we Vets need to show him some smoke and mirrors to get things moving?
        Or not. Another burst of optimism spent…

      3. Does sound like it might be worthwhile. now days VA is pissed at me cause I weened myself off all meds and will not take anything they prescribe, because every prescription has side effects that require another med. I know they are deliberatly trying to kill us off, so why should I beleive they wouldn’t poison my med supply as well. Anything to shut us up. Which reminds me I need to stop by VA to cancel all upcoming apointments. SHUT THEM DOWN, they are one big taxpayer money sewer.

    3. Thanks for your post, yes many veterans think they have every thing under control and do not seek help and when they do they think all they have to do is go into the VA and will be treated. Some first visits can be a nightmare if they run into a VA employee who has a bad attitude against veterans.

      If they run into someone that truly cares and gets the veteran into the system and treated those veterans have a chance and like you, once I was able to get treatment and medication stabilized me and me attending the Alcohol and drug treatment and the PTSD program, I have been doing great !

      Even with treatment all it takes is for one VA employee to change that. Get your Goat and piss you off, with some stupid comment, Like go ahead and kill yourself.

      I am glad you are doing better and yes veterans must at least go in and register before they have to go in for a crisis.

  43. To all you new or old to the VA Mental Health before you take those pills, before your spouse or your kids take them please watch on YouTube: Psychiatry in the Military: The Hidden Enemy—Full Documentary by CCHR Documentaries. I wish I’d seen this before I went through the gauntlet of psychotropic medications. The best prescription I ever received from MH was to get a pet for emotional support.

    My youngest son was put through a program in Kansas in 2012-2013 – New Options – they were crushing pills & putting the powder under his tongue, he didn’t know what it was & at 25yrs old they were killing him. I did make a phone call to his psychiatrist & tried to tell him my son was in crisis BUT all he wanted to know was How Did I Get His Phone Number [I Googled him] & he would hear nothing I had to say. I had to tell my boy just do what they tell you, smile & nod & come home. I didn’t know at that time he had the right to refuse the medication.

    My middle son was at the Fresno CA Vet Center/Clinic not too long ago when a Veteran who was clearly in distress was trying to be seen by mental health but all they would tell him is you have to wait 2hrs, 2hrs this, 2hrs that, 2hrs is a long time when you’re in crisis. I hope he’s ok but when you’re in that state of mind anything is a trigger. Everyone in that waiting room VISN 21 was a witness to the substandard, non-compassion treatment & if everyone there told one person, who told one person the word gets spread.

    President Trump IF you could do something to entice &/or require local Dr., DDS, & other medical services to accept Choice so we can use it, that would be a good thing but these ‘professionals’ don’t want to deal with the aggravation of paperwork & lack of timely payments IF they get paid at all. And the VA doctors hate losing job security & make you wait while they stonewall filing approval forms which are usually done wrong the first time & must be re-submitted numerous times.

  44. I think the VA needs a taste of their own medicine. Every veteran has been wronged in one way or another. Every veteran should file an SF95, and start to not only clog up the courts, but cost the VA it’s precious money defending the SF95’s. Keep filing them over and over again for every wrong doing. At some point the bad press, court ordered payouts, and news of their bs, will get out to the world at large. It is time to wage war against this enemy. Remember those words by President G.W. Bush? “either your with us, or your against us” It is obvious the VA is ‘AGAINST” us. That is the avenue I am going to embark on. File SF95 after SF95. I am also filing a complaint with the state against the quack who was responsible for my service connection TBI denial, since she is liscenced in the state of illinois, she still has to answer to the state of Illinois.

    1. How many times have you applied for the traumatic brain injury disability. ? Have you had any brain scans. Mri’s or been by a neurologists?

      If you have not do so and if you have get copies of the and send them in regestered mail.

      The VA has a habit of doing this. So try again.

      Hopefully they will pass the Bill this week and the citizens can finally get rid of employees whom think they are above the law.

      I have done as you say and they do the same thing and deny any claim no matter what department.

      Good luck. It sucks when you have a Traumatic brain injury and the VA thinks because of it your stupid and can not see the truth.

      I know how you feel. As I too suffer from a Traumatic brain injury after being shot in the head and I’m still fighting. Do not give them the sanctification of you giving up.

      That’s exactly what they want you to do !

      1. @James Gallegos: James, yes sir, I have MRI’s, nuerological reports, and reports from proffesionals trained to diagnose TBI’s, I have the military records showing the incident, and stating I was flown in be heicopter for medical care due to an explosion in the barraks. The VA’s own TBI examiner agreed, there was a service connected TBI. Then the VA setup another c+p exam for depression due to my service connected TBI. That is how it was said, bassicly admitting there was a service connected TBI. I never claimed depression and was told not to miss the exam. Not a single question about depression was asked by this quack shrink. Next I get a decison in the mail stating in their opinion there was no TBI, that instead it was most likely a personality disorder and a fucking ear infection. Constant complaints of headaches after the exposion, they attributed to an ear infection altho no military record exsitst showing any treatment for an ear infection. They pulled that out of thin air. Right now it is in appeal and I should have a decision by June or July. After that it is court time.

      2. I to am a TBI Vet SC 30%. The real sick part is they are doing all this to veterans who in many cases lack the mental ability to defend themselves against their criminal behavior. Is it any wonder they are scared of veterans becoming violent, or suicidal. News Flash, it’s because your screwing us to death. Who was that VA Asswipe that said WE WILL REDEFINE THE TERM ACCOUNTABILITY in front of congress They already have been for years, no such thing as accountability for anything in VA.

  45. Dennis, what you said is true, once they get pissed off at you, they will do everything not to treat you. You, Me and thousands of other veterans have had this done to them and the VA just has to say it so and they punish and threaten us.

    The business with outpatient treatment and appointments, You have a nurse look at you and you explain how your feeling and in my case. The nurse told me you are a Malinger ! I looked at her and asked what did you just say. How dare you call me that !

    I was shot in the head and have a traumatic brain injury. I knew this nurse many years and I knew her personality and she had the reputation of being rude and had the God syndrome. I left the office worse off.

    Appointments are just like others have said they make up appointment’s and don’t tell the veterans or will make an appointment for weeks down the road and will mail out the appointment the day after and they will tell you we will call you the day before your appointment and never do and veterans like me that forget very easily, DO Forget and they don’t call and your a NO SHOW.

    This just happened with audiology. They also will cancel appointment’s and make new appointment’s sometime over and over. I went to a clerk for an appointment and the clerk made the appointment with me standing right there. I noticed the appointment was made for the wrong date and advised the clerk, the clerk proceeded to change the appointment and when she did, she canceled the other appointment and it stated Veterans canceled appointment.

    I did not cancel the appointment, she made an error and blamed me, by stating I canceled it.

    They sent me a letter stating our records indicate that you have not been seen by our outpatient doctor and you need to schedule an appointment. I called and repeated what I was told. The clerk told me oh that PA does not work her anymore, we can set you up a Nurse on a conference call in 2 weeks.

    I made the appointment and Then it all came rushing back to me, what are you doing ? Don’t you remember what this CBOC did to you by Falsely accusing you of Disruptive Behavior. You better cancel that appointment or you could be setting yourself up to be reported again for being disruptive or have the nurse write something about you. This is a very small community and the Manager of my CBOC, I know had put a bug in that nurses ear.

    Telling her that I had been reported as being disruptive and for her to be on the look out.

    Bens post, shows that veterans are to be seen by outpatient and then seen with in 14 days, we know the staff is not qualified to treat PTSD or Traumatic Brain injuries and what comes with that. and 14 days is way to long of a period for someone in crisis.

    Problem also is those that do not deal with PTSD and TBI, will write things into the chart, that they know nothing about, Its their opinion and not an expert opinion and that in the long run can be dangerous to the Veteran. They can say your suicidal, Homicidal or twist your words and say things you never said.

    bottom line they can put out hand out like the one Ben posted and it sounds like the veterans will receive care they need. Problem many, many, employee’s will not even read these or throw them in the trash and will do as they please. Like treat you like shit, to piss you off and hope they get a reaction from you, so they can attack you and then report you as being disruptive.

    Its a job and just a job and Veterans showing up for an appointment means they actually have to work and that pisses them off and the veterans pay the price.

    1. @james gallegos: You are so right about them not knowing shit about TBI’s and making shit up out of thin air, and twisting shit around you never said. When ever I have a complaint, like this last time. They tried to bill my medicaire supplemental, that I pay for out of MY fucking pocket, for an MRI that I didn’t need, but the PCP ordered an was for a FUCKING SERVICE CONNECTED INJURY, not only did they try to bill this to my medicare supplimental, but they tried to bill me for an appointment at a clinic that I have never set foot in. Fucking corrupt bastards. I demand that they follow up with proof that they reversed the charges. Of course this never happens. When I am there in person, it’s another story, alsways. I can be an intimidating bastard if push comes to shove. In short, I don’t give a shit what the fucking VA thinks, I don’t need them. If you know artillery fuses. Consider me a PDSQ kinda guy atop an APERS,(Beehive), I put up with zero bs. Far as I am conconcered, they already killed me three times over. I’ve no fear of them.

      1. That’s why it’s best to say the very least you can get by with and flat-out not answer stupid prying questions and instead answer the VA Psych Hack with a question. Their God-Syndrome Brains do not like that…one bit.
        If you are lucky, you will get some entertainment out of it as you watch their eyes cross and remain that way…then excuse yourself as to not watch them drool all over themselves.
        Do NOT give them ANY ammo. Not even an empty shell casing. Less is always best when talking to any VA hack because they are always conniving on how to utilize your own words and life’s experiences against you….this also is true mostly in the private Psych medical as well unfortunately. Psychiatry and Psychology seem to attract some really interesting waling train wrecks.

      2. @namnibor: lol, I like waling better, a harpoon for those Va union piggy quacks.
        “piggy quacks”? another VA phyco experiment gone horribly wrong? With a snort snort here and a quack quack there…………….

      3. @cj: “[With a snort snort here and a quack quack there…………….]”

        That’s also the same sound coming from one of those VA allocated AFGE office space conference room glass tables with the day’s take from Operation Pharmacy Shortchange. Snorting quacks.

    2. Biggest single problem for veterans is inaccurate history taking. Nothing blows my mind more that the shit some have put in my medical file.

      One physician wrote I was an “alcoholic” simply because I was homeless. Completely ignored the clean lab reports.

      1. @Lem: BINGO, they call you an alcohol abuser and a drug abuser, even though you have squeeky clean lab reports, since the beginning of time.

  46. Blame the delay on Obama Care. Now veterans have to compete for care with Medicaid expanded patients who can get psychiatric care instead of blowing their brains out. So now both sides wait too long.

    1. Your post is dead on Lem but let me go onto a tangent regarding blame.

      The blame is really no more Obama care, VA care, AFGE, POTUS, indifference, or even a lack of genuine concern over the suicides we see happen around us in our vet population. There is blame to be spread, but like manure in a pasture it really only feeds the fire.

      The “blame” rests firmly on the conviction that persons with Phd’s in psychiatry, and who posess a DEA prescribers license are capable of treating veterans at all.

      I read on Friday the line “…the world is better off with you in it…” as advice to those tipping between choosing life or not. Well, that might be true but to suicdal person it is completely irrelevent. The real question is will the world be a better place for YOU in the future, or will things just keep getting colder, meaner, and more painful? The man who steps in front of the train is cogniscent that his little bits might alarm others – he doesn’t give a godamn about who vomits over him and who doesn’t because he has noticed that nobody gave a shit when he got really sick over seeing guts sprayed around.

      Can anyone explain just how a doctor of psychiatry can address the true nature of the illness, which is uniquely of a spiritual nature? Even when they do try to help what are the only tools they have? Pills. Then when those pills keep you awake, more pills. When those pillss make you vomit, more pills. When those pills make you retain water, more pills. When those pills make you weakened, more pills.

      The blame? The blame is in thinking that Phd types in psychiatry at VHA are any less insane, delusional, or ignorant of what they are doing than even the most cognitively impaired veteran. The blame is firmly rooted in a widespread delusional belief that mental health Phd types in VA are committed to first doing no harm. The blame is on America for seeing the “problem” as being a shortage of VHA Phd mental health professionals, instead of the truth that the “problem” IS the VHA mental health professional’s version of Nightmare On Elm Street. The blame is that the producers of the show just keep producing sequels because it makes them so godamn much money and the actors union has an unlimited supply of “extras” that need work.

      1. We Veterans are expendable “stunt dummies” for cast of fools at HHHBBC, (Hungry, Hungry Hippos Bullshit Broadcasting Company).
        Yes, I am implying we Vets are standing-in for the real dummies in the cast…the AFGE Herd.
        “Nightmare On Elm Street” is a pretty good analogy for the VA Mental Health Hacks. Matter-in-fact, I dare say that there’s at least -1- Freddy Kruger in every VAMC basement stoking or stroking the flames. 🙂

      2. And we could blame those of us that are crazy with enough smarts to become a MD Psychiatrist for not doing so. No one understands another crazy like a similarly crazy man.

        Thus the best therapy for PTSD comes from others who have experienced it.

        And you are right. When it comes to too much pain you either fight or flight. Fight–kill others. Flight–kill yourself. And often a person gone berserk does both. In flight we take our damaged brain with us.

      3. @Lem- Sadly, my own medical and mental medical issues raised their ugly tentacles while in my 4th year, then 9/11 took place, which was the cherry on-top when my Psych Dr. could not understand how 9/11 could further stir-up my mental crap I had done a great job of “faking it until you make it” in life until that point.
        Their answer was of course, “MORE PILLS”, while completely missing the point of classic PTSD from past stuff that could no longer be self-contained easily…the VA just does not GET or remotely understand PTSD and if anyone NEEDS to understand PTSD fully, it’s the VA.
        Anyway, I was going to go into Art Therapy and indeed planned to help my fellow Veterans. Life happened and so now am utilizing my own art/music for therapy and at some point plan to record a bunch of relaxing ambient music for fellow Vets that is relaxing and when I do it will be all free downloadable off You Tube. Note even remotely ready yet, but I still plan to help in the capacity disclosed.

        It’s probably better this way (sour grapes), because now with the new proposed ACA replacement, it sure sounds like State Medicaid will be getting serious chopping orders now as well…not good.
        What annoys me to no end is all those 8 years, and the ridiculous amount of times the Republicans attempted to kill Obamacare while ignoring rest of USA’s problems, even after the Supreme Ct., they still tried to defund ACA…and through ALL THOSE 8 YEARS NOT **ONE** solid PLAN for it’s replacement was drawn-up?

        Crazy shit, per usual.

      4. @namnibor: nam, if I worked with Senators or Congressmen, I would have to quit, I couldn’t possilbly work with such an incompetant bunch of wingnuts. And if I was their boss, and I mean in a business setting, I’d fire then eintire lot of them.

        Im sorry, I meant no disrespect to any wingnuts, we all know wingnuts actually do their job.

      5. At least some psychiatrists will have to come back to the VA and the wait list for those who can afford the non VA psychiatrist will shorten with the ACA replacement. Good news for veterans. Bad news for their children who couldn’t get enough education to earn a good living.

      6. @cj- If you ever get a chance to work on a Senator or Congressman’s reelection get out and vote campaign, (I have a few times), you would be amazed at just how *little to nothing* these congress critters actually do…they have “people” for “everything”…even a guy to call to…ask other “people” to get more “people”…it’s a bit like herding cattle, except nowadays the cattle are on stairmaster exercise machines and it’s everyone else that’s actually moo–ving. 🙂

      7. @namnibor: I hear you, I have several “union” friends that each election cyicle they are out there donating their time in hopes of being transfered into a city, or county position. After over 30 years of this, these idots are still waiting, and still donating their time. I say idiots lovingly, as one is my cousin, and another a long time friend. It is also how I know that if you do not vote, they take your registration form and fill it out and use it to stuff the ballot boxe’s for libtards…….That’s the Chicago way…….unfortunately, it would seem the Chicago way has found it’s way around every state. I prefer to stand on the curb at the local parade and yell “YOU SUCK…BOOOOOOOOOOO” I only wish it was still legal to throw vegetables at their lying, skanky asses, I mean faces, I mean asses, I mean assfaces……………..damn confusing.

  47. Here’s what was on “ News” this morning.

    “VA Uses New Electromagnetic Therapy to Treat Depression”

    via: “Fox News | by Terace Garnier

    The prices the VA is paying for these ‘devices’ is astronomical, ($100K each)!
    The “sessions costs” are also out of touch with reality!

    Plus, doesn’t this “mental health procedure” sound like something out of a horror movie/story?
    I read the whole article. Yet, was disturbed over it!
    I wish I could remember the “procedures” used by “doctors” in the “mental wards of sanitariums” of the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. Which this is what I liken these procedures to! Check it out. Especially the “side effects”!
    Am I being paranoid, or am I reading this thing correctly?

    1. It’s scary freaky electromagnetic lobotomy voodoo. Had it explained to me when I was using private mental health hacks and no f^cking way!!!!!!! They try to explain it as if this can be tested and qualified…Electro Shock Therapy….without the “shock”…but you may have a mild tingling sensation, may leave long pools of drool as you walk, but you can now do TWO things at same time: You can place you frozen microwave dinner in your mouth and wait 3 minutes, then swallow cooked meal and wash it down with yet more drool.

      I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than any frontal lobotomy.

      1. watch this, it goes back to the 1800’s ……… The Most SHOCKING Psychiatry Documentary EVER………its on the utube Psychiatry in the Military: The Hidden Enemy—Full Documentary…..this one NiteWish posted is a very good one, it will explain why all this craziness is going on

      2. @OLDMARINE-

        I have indeed viewed that particular video and more. Even more shocking (mind the pun) is when I took a 300/400 level Abnormal Psych college class for one of my majors, it actually documented that in these United States, it was the Veteran’s Admin. that continued to give Veterans lobotomies “to quiet them”, all the way through the 60’s and good part of the 70’s, when the rest of the FIRST WORLD had ceased using such practices long before….THAT is our VA, a good solid 46+ years behind rest of the medical community of the world…unless you live in a Third World Country and a Witch Dr. is your only option….very much like the VA.
        (only the best zombie dust and chicken bones for the VA, spared no expense for our torment)

      3. Thanks namnibor, “Cranial Electric Shock Lobotomy” was the medical(?) description I was looking for. Too early this morning to remember words!

        In the article, the vet said, (paraphrasing), that he felt better, (or [possibly] cured after many sessions?), after the first treatment.

        I wonder, could he possibly have lied so he wouldn’t have to go through this ordeal anymore?
        I don’t know about the rest of you, but I wouldn’t want to be a hooked up to one of those things!

  48. In my record I show a “telephone appointment” was scheduled for me without a clue for me. When.i discovered it in my record the doctor wrote it up like this; “Patient could not be reached by phone so I (the doctor I never saw) reviewed his medication history for his charts.”

    It was listed as “appointment kept”! A telephone consult that I was never told about was shown as being a successful yearly checkup because the doctor hung the phone up and glanced at my records.

    Treachery and deception are the glue that holds Roseburg VA together. Since going public with it the have terminated ALL psychiatric care and refuse to respind to appeals. When I complained to Comgressman Defazio and his staff forwarded the complaint to VA, the VA sent the local police (a week later) on a “safety check”. When
    i later complained that terminating all care was just asking a vet to suicided, they sent the police again on a safety check (28 hours after my complaint). When I retaliated against that intrusion via secure messaging and called my point of contact a little nazi the same day, the VA sent the police on a safety check. Each check th epolice were told I was in imminent danger of suicide – BULLSHIT!!!

    Then after repeated attempts at obtaining another appointment,
    i was told simply that VA Roseburg would not offer psychiatric services to me anymore but gave zero explanation.
    I am 100% sc ptsd, diagnosed with suicidal ideation, have been a guest three times on the VA mental ward over suicide attempts, was diagnosed the last time with a GAF of 5 on the ward, yet when all of he police showing up,did not frighten me, they said simply that no Roseburg psychiatrist is willing to see me.

    So they will send the police over dire concern for my personal safety, while at the same time refuse to off any MH care or drugs because I am tagged as collaborating with the press. Even felons are not barred from receiving services. SO DO NOT BELIEVE THEM! They are serpents who slither in and out the back door guarded by six inches of bullet resistant glass and will indeed terminate care in a variety of ways when you tell on them. They use the local police for their intimidation. These poeple are FAR MORE dangerous than just the simply “golly-we-sure-need-more-training” folks sitting in bariatric chairs arguing over who,left the employee pottty plugged up. This man was not simply forgotten – he was ignored and probably had pissed somebody off – so he too was selected as a “better left for dead” patient.

    …and we wonder why the parking lots have veteran brains scattered all over? This WILL NEVER CEASE until VA mental health care is shut down

    1. @Dennis: “[…and we wonder why the parking lots have veteran brains scattered all over? This WILL NEVER CEASE until VA mental health care is shut down]”

      I have a proposition for a hypothesis to be tested-out:

      I propose that if the entire VA Mental Health Dept. were relegated to hold their office hours and waiting areas for said appointments *only* out in the VAMC parking lots, not even TeleMental Health Booths, just the damn tarmac like one huge mental health tailgate party, the amount of scattered brains in each VAMC parking lot would increase and perhaps starting making the VA a healthier place.

      Notice, nowhere did I suggest any violence. Only fact that more scattered brains of academic quality would be all over those parking lots if that simple change was made.

  49. First, I’d like to say. Yesterday, on Fox and Friends, (Sunday, 12 Mar), there was a discussion on (Ryan’s) new healthcare bill. As they dealt into it, and talked about the (failing) ACA of Obama’s healthcare system, it looked as though “it” will be a “single payer healthcare system”!
    The interesting ‘fact’ that came up, by the three person panel, was (Ryan’s) bill looked more like “the VA’s healthcare system!”
    They even talked about the many “SCANDALS plaguing VA’s healthcare system!” (I wish I’d kept the Utube video, to share it!)

    What’s President Trump going to do? I’m not sure at this point! He doesn’t even have his full cabinet in place. All because the Democrats, and a few Republicans, are “stonewalling”!
    “Shithead Shulkin” seems to NOT give a rats ass about veterans. The “upper management”, down to the lowest employee, at the many VHA’s nationwide don’t give a rats ass about veterans.

    I, along with many on here and other sites, are still wanting to know what the hell is VA doing with all the taxpayers monies!?!?!
    Because, as time goes by, it seems like their always asking for MORE!
    I have this (BAD) feeling, Shulkin will be asking for more in short order. I wonder if he’ll use veterans, by claiming he’ll have to shut down hospitals, to aquire more money! Remember when that happened in 2015?

  50. Do you know why most appointments are a no-show? Because the Veteran is not aware of the appointment, because that is part of the scam or scheme to schedule phantom appointments to make the doctor or providers schedule look always full with appointments. There are so many individuals involved in on the scam.

    You need an immediate appointment? Ask for next available appointment and see how many weeks or months before an next available is open. Because of these phantom appointments that bogged down the whole system. No one in authority wants to actually deal with this real life fraud on Veterans that are letting Veterans die!!!!!!

    1. I have a relative that considers it a crapshoot each time he has a scheduled appointment with his Indianapolis VAMC.
      Why a crapshoot?
      Because well-over 50% of the time after he makes the 70+ mile drive to Indianapolis VAMC, upon arrival he has found that they either cancelled his appointment (without any rescheduling nor even notifying him), or he gets there for say an 08:30 appointment and is STILL sitting in waiting areas of the “Purple Team” close to closing hour each day and each time when the appointment is actually in the system.
      It gets worse, if it even could…
      He thought to combat the VA’s f^ckery, because after all, the VA will not even pay his mileage for traveling to appointments these days because the VA now likes to point out that you somehow *missed* past appointments without canceling….what?
      So, to try to save $$$ on gas and travel and after-all, he has a full time job as well to work around the VA’s f^ckery, he thought he would counter the VA f^ckery by simply calling ahead now for each appointment to ensure the appointment was not one of those “ghost appointments” or (canceled by VA without notification), so now nothing has changed because even *when* the VA tells him he indeed has an appointment in the que and he takes time off work and travels, it’s still a damn crapshoot in at least 50% of them time by time he arrives that appointment either was rescheduled without any notification or outright purged from system.
      He’s all but left the VA’s f^ckery, only using them minimally in order to have his RX’s mailed…and paying oodles of $$$$ out of pocket with his work’s health insurance….to avoid the VA’s f^ckery.
      My relative has also had the VA’s Psych Dr.’s throw so many old school antidepressants in his path, and none of them have worked, and the VA refuses to even consider this relative may in-fact be similar to myself in having what’s called paradoxical reactions to almost all antidepressants, but I can take limited dosage of Cymbalta….the VA even refuses to TRY Cymbalta, telling my relative that even the generic of Cymbalta is too expensive…try, try again.
      These hacks are downright irresponsible, indifferent, and I firmly believe the VA has manipulated even the ‘Choice Program’.
      How, you may ask?
      By the VA making the Choice wait times fairly the same as VA wait times, artificial or not, the VA destroys/eliminates the “competition” (Choice), by making it seem like no gains would be made on outside referral, to keep the Veteran in the same rancid swamp water…and $$$$, cannot forget about some VA f^ckery without mentioning $$$$$$.
      Rat Bastards!

      F^CK THE VA! Anything they touch turns the Midas Brown Color of pure ooey gooey poo.

      “[So how long will it take for President Donald Trump and Company to reign in the bureaucrats holding back the necessary reforms veterans desperately need fixed now?]”

      I honestly do not think any incoming President could second-guess the level of deception and corruption at the VA. REAL CHANGE can only occur with a complete enema in all VA Upper Management. Entire System is a Systemic Mess. Playing whack-a-mole will keep us right here 10 years from now. Wait for it…

      1. DIDO I am after 25 years of there antidepresents that didn’t work or side effects,,, I no longer take any,, and rely only on GOD and my self to go on,,, There help was really worse then what I do , Yep we employ thousands of government personnel is really what Disabled Vets do,,, and then give them a great salary to go home with while we give up our talents,,, and ever be able to work,,, and they give us nothing but crap and a pension that only pays like a Ditch Digger talent,,,, Glad I served,,, oh by the way I didn’t have a choice to not serve,,, still a law of forced,,,

      2. Today I had my first Choice appointment on this latest referral. Last time I was referred it took 57 days of calling Choice for them to get their shit together and schedule an appointment. Yes, I believe you are right, they were gaming things to make the wait times the same. The last time I was referred, I don’t recall ever getting a letter from the VA, and may have eventually gotten a letter from Choice, but I don’t think so.
        This time around, I was referred Feb 6, and had a letter from the VA within a week. I was told it would take up to a week to hear from Choice. I got a call at 8 days. I called the provider at about 2 weeks and they said they had the authorization, but were waiting on Choice to call to schedule the appointment. I called Choice the same day, and they lied to me telling me the authorization had not been sent. I said I just spoke to the provider who was looking at the authorization, then Choice’s story changed.

        I then found out they referred me to a Nurse Practitioner rather than the doctor the VA wanted me to see. I called Choice to find out why, and to get it properly scheduled. Choice jacked around a few days and didn’t do anything. I called the provider, and was told the Nurse Practitioner worked closely with the doctor I was supposed to see, but his schedule was full until May.

        I kept the appointment with the Nurse Practitioner. Choice sent me another letter with the same NP named…so they had not done anything to change it.

        It is always a shock to go into a civilian hospital as opposed to the VA. Everything is geared towards the patient and the place does not look like it was last decorated in the style of a 1950’s insane asylum, or meat-packing plant.

        The check-in was fast and I was called right on the dot for the appointment. The Nurse Practitioner was much more professional than the last 15 doctors I have seen at the VA. She took a bit of time, reviewed all of the history I was required to provide before the appointment, asked questions, listened to what I said and made lots of notes. She also made notes in a computer where I could fully see the screen, unlike the VA where they position the screen away from veterans like they are typing in nuclear launch codes.

        She suggested possibly trying medicine, but she wants to wait and do an MRI first to see whether any medicine might make symptoms worse.

        She did NOT have nice things to say about the VA, not by what she actually said, but by the minimal things she did say and her attitude.

        She was shocked by how many appointments the VA authorized, and said they pretty much authorized them to do any tests they want without prior approval.

        Your comment Nam suggests to me why. The VA and Choice have been gaming the system for awhile, delaying providing care.

        A few days ago, Shulkin was quoted in some news article about extending the Choice program, and doing so quickly, or close to a billion dollars that have been allocated by Congress for Choice will be lost by the deadline.

        It appears the VA is now scrambling to get a billion dollars spent by that deadline, just in case Congress does not extend it, or in case they come up with something new. Sounds like rationing to me. And an embarrassment for not being efficient enough to get the funds they were given spent on providing care.

        Friggin clown show.

      3. Holy shit,
        The first part of your goat rope story about the choice program is EXACTLY THE SAME AS what happened to me.
        The end part where you got care and all that…I wasn’t cool enough I guess.

      4. LP, one other thing to add about my second Choice experience.

        The NP did not treat me as if I was too stupid to comprehend anything she said. She did not offer fake, thank you for your service, now get the hell out of my office respect, but there was respect.

        I don’t expect fawning praise or entitled to anything other than an honest evaluation of why I am there.

        All of it is sorely lacking at the VA.

    2. I’ve had three phantom appointments since being in this area of TX.
      They used that to help them justify kicking me out of the Caregiver Program….makes sense right? He has a Caregiver for memory issues and physical detriments, but he missed these appointments so fuck’m. We ne never got a call/letter regarding these fake appts.
      They just wanted to take a huge amount of money out of my pocket.

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