USA TODAY: Wait List Fraud Confirmed In 7 States

Wait List Fraud

Benjamin KrauseVA bosses in 7 states were caught engaging in various levels of wait list fraud related to the wait list scandal that was uncovered two years ago.

The states where fraud was encouraged by VA leadership include Arkansas, California, Delaware, Illinois, New York, Texas and Vermont. The scheme gave the false impression that VA facilities were meeting performance measures and no doubt bonuses were improperly doled out as a result.


Freedom of Information Act requests from USA Today led to the first revelation published this week about patterns within the wait list scandal previously unknown. Supervisors in seven states pushed their employees to commit fraud.

The data from the information requests revealed that mean VA facilities failed to change fraudulent appointment scheduling practices despite heavy pressure to follow the law. Apparently, that pressure was not enough to behave ethically.

Give VA’s overall lack of punishment for proven fraudulent practices, should it surprise anyone that so many unethical employees continue to thumb their nose at the law?


Numerous VA executives reassured America that the problem was resolved, but the USA Today data shows an entirely different story.

“Employees at 40 VA medical facilities in 19 states and Puerto Rico regularly “zeroed out” veteran wait times, the analysis shows. In some cases, investigators found manipulation had been going on for as long as a decade. In others, it had been just a few years.”

Some of the stories USA Today uncovered are really disappointing, but not surprising:

“In some cases, the system encouraged manipulation even without explicit instruction from supervisors. A manager in West Palm Beach, Fla., sent out laudatory emails touting the shorter wait times the system showed. Schedulers in Harlingen, Texas, reported being berated by supervisors when they booked appointments showing longer wait times for veterans. (It was “not pretty,” one employee said.)

“In some cases — in Gainesville, Fla., White River Junction, Vt., and Philadelphia, for example — they found VA employees improperly kept lists of veterans needing care outside the scheduling system, a violation that also hid actual wait times.”

How do you think Secretary Bob McDonald’s accountability plan without termination is working? It seems clear that the message was not received that VA needs to clean up its act across the board.


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  1. Dear Mr. Krause:

    I have to make a slight correction: It should read when a government becomes destructive to these ends.

    Yours for GOD and Country
    Frank P. Calderon

  2. Dear Mr. Krause:

    What is there to question about what to do with VA employees? when our Constitution, spells it out quite vividly on the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, the section beginning with the clause; We hold these truths… half way down it spells quite clearly what to do whenever a government destructive to these ends; (our freedoms.

    Yours for GOD and Country
    Frank P. Calderon

  3. A “WND EXCLUSIVE” that’s only 3-4 hours old.
    by Leo Hohman
    “20 U.S. Cities ‘Optimum Sanctuaries’for Migrants”

    “Disney” and “Soros” names are mentioned.
    Columbus, Ohio is one of the cities named namnibor! As is Indianapolis, Ind.!
    y’all gotta read it.

    We got trouble coming our way!!!!!!!!!

  4. Dear Mr. Krause:
    I think if these mafia-type thieves in the V.A. are allowed to get away with what the
    federal government allows them to get away with what they do I say any regular citizen caught committing similar crimes should not be incarcerated for the same crimes, I say, ” what is good for the goose is good for the gander,”

    And it seems they get away with such criminal acts the government is an accessory to it, so I say impeach them all, there are provisions for it in the Constitution, or do our ” lawmakers know the Constitution”.

    If they do not know it I invite them to read the first three or four paragraphs of the ” Declaration of Independence” signed and ratified in the date, July 4th 1776 by the thirteen united States of America, if they do not have the nerve to do it let them step down, but don’t make it bad for the rest who risked our lives to safeguard our freedom.

    Yours for GOD and Country
    Frank P. Calderon

  5. Merri Busch you opened your comment with: “The AFGE union protects good workers from bad bosses.”

    What do you say when the rodent sh^teaters you are defending are representing the Candy Man this week.

    “VA ‘Candy Man’ May Keep His Job Despite No Medical License” by Luke Rosiak at the Daily Caller. Published 04/08/2016


    1. Brother, you forgot to add the following sentence, quote: “…and VA has instructed employees to call the police on reporters who enter the hospital to keep them from finding that out!”

      That’s not the only thing in that article that has my blood pressure going through the roof right fuckin now!!!!!
      Y’all need to read this article! It’ll probably piss y’all off too!!!!!

    2. I’d call the speculative journalism. Like vaccinations may cause autism. May being the operative word.

      1. One word of friendly advice Merri Busch.

        The “California Attorney General” just came out with his “proposal” as to “…WHAT choices (total of three)…” Elected and Appointed Officials should receive “, punishment for putting Americans In Harms Way!”
        One official in California was tried and convicted already. His “…conviction was for gun running to our enemies (al Qaida) in the Philippines…”, plus other charges!
        The other two are going through the legal process as I type this, “…on unrelated charges!” Yet, still concidered “High Crimes and Misdemeanors” by our government!

        I believe this will also go for “ALL government employees as well!”

        If your unaware, google it! Evidently he’s a real MAN tired of the bullsh!t that’s going on in our “Constitutional Republic!” You know, those two documents, Constitution and Bill of Rights”, every person “Swore an Oath To”, BEFORE they were actually concidered HIRED!
        Evidently you’ve forgot that. Because, IF you remembered it. You wouldn’t be defending one of the most corrupt government entity there is!!!!

        And stop with your insults. It shows WHAT side you stand on!

      2. Ok Merri Busch I bite.

        How do you get “speculative journalism” from the fact that the rodent sh^teaters you are defending are fighting to see the Candy Man reinstated?

        That the cost of the hearings and the pay to defend the VA for firing David Houlihan is coming out of the VA’s budget payed by taxpayers like me and most everyone else who post here.

        What a week of hearings plus who knows what else maybe what a quarter Million going up in smoke.

        Who pays the union dues at the AFGE any way is the tax payers or do the employees have to pay their dues? It would certainly seem that anyone paying dues should be outraged at how those dues being spent on the Candy Man instead of protecting whistle blowers who did some thing good. A pretty AssBackWard Union full of rodent Sh^teaters for leaders.

  6. The AFGE union protects good workers from bad bosses. The mid level managers from my experience are often promoted to minimize the damage they can cause at the front line of contact. Read what was written. The supervisors would still be running the game but for the whistleblowers. Do you really think a GS 4-7 clerk can hold their own against a power hungry and vindictive GS-13? No, but a steward can.

    And for y’all who want to do a super flush and paint with broad brushes how terrible the VA is, let’s follow your logic. In the VBA side: Fire all the bad apples who basically do an incompetent job. That’s maybe 10%. Now the remaining workers have to do their work AND the fired staff’s while the HR dept hires replacements, and, it takes 2-3 years to become fully competent. Think that will speed up the process?

    The problems being addressed by Bob McDonald are systemic and complicated. It is a huge agency that for the most part has been piecemealed together over the past 50 years, with a changing and mostly politicized leader, with little ability to hold the career bureaucrats responsible.

    Personally, I see this requiring a full ten years, and we are about three years in, to the full technological and service system transformation. I hope whoever gets elected continues Bob in his position so he can continue to define the problems, measure the severity, frequency and duration of the multiple issues, analyze the systemic corrections and implement the improvements and then control the gains for sustained excellence.

    That is the ‘business mind’ that Bob brings and no political appointees of the past have done.

    I realize in a TV world were wars are fought and won in two hours and alcoholics recover in an hour long episode has challenged the thinking of the average person to demand instant results. But that isn’t real. This is, and from my little corner, the VA has made more progress in the past five years than the past 20 combined.

    Remember, it is the increased demand for accountability and integrity that is bringing all the problems to light. We have to be brave enough as an agency to look at our failings, take responsibility, and speedily correct them.

    Tell me, before Bob, did any of you have the telephone number of the Secretary of the VA?

    1. Notwithstanding your other insults, but yes, I actually met the acting VA Secretary in his office in about 1997 just before Jesse Brown came in, and then met with Jesse Brown in Milwaukee.
      If I emailed his office, his office actually responded, and things changed damn quick rather than the “piss off” responses one gets now if they even bother to respond.
      I can also say other upper officials were responsive, and the IG actually did their job.
      Makes excuses if you want for the AFGE, but there is NOTHING that can excuse where their loyalties lie when they defend an employee who beat a veteran to death, defend an employee involved in an armed robbery, ignored a wait time scandal so a manager can get a bonus. You can claim those employees are intimidated by managers, but there are a number of employees involved in that, and blaming managers does not address the entire problem.
      Finally, if the AFGE were worth anything, they would have defended whistle blowers long ago, and demanded VA managers follow federal whistle blower protection laws.

      1. Jesse Brown was awesome. I’m talking about the last 15 years. And I wasn’t intending to insult anyone, just argue that some foresight and patience is required. Revamping the VA is a huge job.

        I hope you get involved with the Veteran Experience coordinator at your local RO. Your commitment and passion is needed.

      2. What is a Veteran Experience coordinator? I have never been able to get through to the RO through anything other than direct numbers for hearing aid supplies.

      3. One other thing: my loyalty is to justice, competence and excellence in service. Sometimes the worker have to unite to hold management accountable to create the environment in which that can happen.

      4. I can appreciate a commitment to justice, competence and excellence in service, but there is no justice when the AFGE defends an employee that beats a veteran to death. There is no competence when patient advocates are required at VAs across the nation and they refuse to do their jobs. There is no excellence in service when clinics throughout the VA act as if they will catch diseases by talking to veterans either in person or on the phone.
        If the AFGE were serious about any of those three things, they would demand that from all employees, or isolate and demand action against those who blatantly break the law, are incompetent or are just taking up space warming a chair.
        That they refuse to defend employees against retaliation in general or whistle blower retaliation tells me all I need to know about the justice, competence and excellence of the AFGE.

    2. OK, before I would bow down before the union, I would ask where are they with the problems encountered with VBA also. Of course VHA has it’s known “attributes” that were listed in the article, but if they, “media”, really wanted to use the FOI laws, tell them to find out what happened to all the previous commission recommendations that have been done over the years to fix the VA!

      I am simply amazed that a national newspaper would care about this, since it seems to me most civilians could care less about us veterans! Thanks for your service does not fix the VA! We the veteran class of this nation have to continue to be outspoken on all VA issues online as this is truly our only media that is effective.

      Now, if the media was really interested in solving the VA issues it would compile an attack list of problems and spread them throughout their ranks as organizations. Warning order op plan so to say. Until I see this type of cooperation from the media about the VHA and VBA problems, I remain quite unimpressed!

      If they really wanted to solve problems at the VA they would have looked at Bernie Sanders bill that was shot down and investigated the issues that he brought forth with that bill in a line item fashion! Sometimes I think we operate in our problem solving as if we lived in 1816, not 2016!

    3. Merri,

      You appear to have a loyalty to the AFGE so I’ll ask you this, is there an AFGE list of good bossess and bad bosses based on a test/evaluation used to determine who gets protection and who doesn’t???????? From past actions the AFGE appears to protect all members right or wrong. Veterans would be better served if the AFGE would defend against ALL wrong doing no matter whose at fault.

      In regards to your statement,”VA has made more progress in the past five years than the past 20 combined,” if this is true why is the VA still going backwards, still having the same 20 year issues?

      Yes you can contact secretary Bob but, you could also contact General Hickey, what happened to her????? do you think she was on the AFGE’s BAD BOSS list????

      VA takes one step forward and 3 steps backward until that changes veterans will continue to suffer and in my opinion that’s criminal………

      1. ‘Hi, Hondo, in my experience, the AFGE simply makes sure that management follows the contract and the laws of civil service. They do not advocate to keep scrappy employees, but do advocate that people get appropriate training before mgmt holds them accountable. We all have performance standards, but the work conditions are often difficult.

        For instance, in vocational rehab, the performance standards are the same whether the GS 12 has a caseload of 130 or 260. And there is currently nothing in the contract to keep a VRC from being overloaded by the boss who assigns the cases.

      2. One other thing: my loyalty is to justice, competence and excellence in service. Sometimes the workers have to unite to hold management accountable to create the environment in which that can happen.

    4. Yeah, can anyone tell me when that phone number to Sec. Macdonald worked, when someone answered or returned a message? I mean, I’m not surprised, I can’t even get my VAMC Patient Advocate to return messages.

    5. #Merri
      “I hope whoever gets elected continues Bob in his position so he can continue to define the problems, measure the severity, frequency and duration of the multiple issues, analyze the systemic corrections and implement the improvements and then control the gains for sustained excellence.” That is the ‘business mind’ that Bob brings and no political appointees of the past have done.” Uhhhhh….wasn’t McSlick approaching his position as CEO of P&G doing just that, where the P&G initiative was to come up to speed and compete & match other competitors (like Colgate for one) in coming up with an array of sensible and affordable products to reach the lower- income pockets of people in Asian nations (ie. the poorer segments in China – very many people) and other countries where P&G was really behind in market share catering to those people?
      .He was at “zero” in his entire 3 years as CEO and the shareholders and Board of Directors had to “pressure” him to show at least “some” improvement or leave. He chose to leave by mutual agreement. between him and the clown that chose him to be the CEO to begin with. Too much time spent analyzing. Not enough time spent “doing”.
      Ummmm….you go on to say: “I realize in a TV world were wars are fought and won in two hours and alcoholics recover in an hour long episode has challenged the thinking of the average person to demand instant results. But that isn’t real.” And then you say: “Remember, it is the increased demand for accountability and integrity that is bringing all the problems to light. We have to be brave enough as an agency to look at our failings, take responsibility, and speedily correct them.” Then: “Personally, I see this requiring a full ten years, and we are about three years in, to the full technological and service system transformation.
      Ummm…you said it will take ten years…and then say “to speedily correct them” Look…there are thousands of things this man could have done in the 2 years he was there – things that would take a few weeks or so to correct…that would have improved service at least a little to make things at the old coral work more efficiently. From the phones being answered in a better way and many other bugaboos we all do not like – but the VA keeps doing without concern for their own image. I feel that Bob, Sloan, Shulkin, and even the president should have gone through the experience of trying out “Coice” themselves, incognito, before turning it over to HealthNet. That’s how you solve problems. I wish to correct you –It will not be 10 years… it will be NEVER.

    6. @Merri Busch,
      Your constant belief McDonald, Gibson, Shulkin, the AFGE and other’s are trying to do something FOR veterans is, in my opinion, not true!
      That being said,
      Explain where all of around $250 +/- BILLION of taxpayer’s monies have disappeared to in just 6 months!?
      The “Panama Papers” (11.5 million documents), are now comming out explaining many criminal activities of wealthy individuals hiding monies in “Shell Companies”! Companies which are supplying terrorists! Monies which are being hidden from the I.R.S.’s of many countries! And MORE!
      WHY did McDonald go to Vietnam? During McDonald’s 30+ years with P&G, most of his time was spent in the Orient!!! Was he there to become RICHER? Did he, and others right below him, set up a Shell Company to hide taxpayers monies?
      I don’t trust any of the people who work for the most corrupt government entity. Their past is shown in many published articles. There’s no denying McDonald is carrying through with something!
      I remember reading, from the “Library of Congress”, MANY egregious acts committed by VA since its very inception! No one, and I mean no one, has ever gotten the corruption out of this government entity.
      When anyone defends them, I believe they have an “agenda”! What’s your “agenda” Merri Busch? WHAT will you hope to gain by defending the VA?
      I believe they need an all out, get ready to bend over and grab your ankles, type scare! One that will, like Reagan did to the “Air Traffic Controllers Union”! You remember what he did to them, don’t you?
      Sorry if you feel ImI’m being hypocritical of VA. But they need to be completely shut down! Let veterans use CHAMPVA like Robin Mitchell explains. Let us decide what’s best for us! That’s been the way for all Americans for before Obamycare! It worked pretty good until the government got involved in healthcare.
      It also seems the only time VA does their jobs, is when a veteran(s) file law suits!

      1. A resounding AMEN to what crazyelf wrote!
        Always so quick to make amends and praises for VA management and union anytime light is shed on outright fraud and data manipulations…for what in the end, meeting metrics for performance bonuses? BS!
        Also, to mock vaccinations or a Vet’s hesitation, is a bit heartless considering many Vets live each and every day from being infected with various infectious diseases due to either the DoD/VA experimenting or outright incompetence.
        Merri, you come across clinical and cold as a rusty razor in Antarctica.

  7. I give credit to USA today to examine more than 70 investigation reports released after multiple inquiries and a Freedom of Information Act request — reveal for the first time specifics of widespread scheduling manipulation. At least USA today goes to that trouble to get release of the reports, which they didn’t really want to release.
    In the source article by USA today David Shulkin said the agency is moving toward measuring wait times by veteran satisfaction. The VA currently asks veterans at computer kiosks when they check in for appointments whether they are satisfied that they got the appointments when they wanted them. The VA also is working on a new way to measure wait times in the scheduling system. Ummmm…the veterans were asked at kiosks when they check in for appointments? The veterans checking in for appointments got their appointments. Odds are they are somewhat satisfied they got an appointment. How about asking the veterans that are NOT checking in because they don’t have a freak’in appointment? They are the ones that are not at the kiosks. Because they DON’T HAVE appointments.
    None of that data is publicly available yet, but Shulkin said he plans to publish it on the VA’s website in coming months. Right now, he said 89% of veterans say they are satisfied and he uses the data to guide management. Oh yeah? Only 11% are not satisfied? I guess shortly 100% will be satisfied then, right?
    “It’s how I know we’re heading in the right direction,” he said.
    “We’ve expanded appointments, we have added evening hours and weekend hours, we’ve added 3 million square feet of space, we’ve hired 14,000 new providers,” he said.
    Uhhhh…Ummmmm…14,000 providers? The VA has trouble hiring a any providers. He is full of shit. I want proof of that. What kind of providers?

    1. @leslie,
      It’s like the Newsweek polls which are taken. They get %’s by polling say: 1015 people and this represents the demographic of the whole of the United States of America!

      Of course Shulkin’s lying! They all lie! I’d also like to know where the hell all those people are he said VA hired. They sure as hell ain’t here in Florida!

      There’s quite a lot of questions they need to answer. Only they try their best to ignore everyone!

      Sooner or later the SWHTF! When it does God help those ingrates!

      1. How many have been hired, and is that keeping pace with how many have quit?
        In addition, I can say at least 3 were hired at Grand Junction to be Choice Champions and supposedly help veterans with Choice. It would help quite a bit of the VA actually let veterans known they are available.
        I suspect they were hired using funding from the Choice program. Rather than pay Choice medical bills, they hire more flunkies and don’t tell veterans they exist.

  8. Nam and Crazy,
    Hear you loud and clear. “Hell No I Won’t Go” I said that all 3 times they sent me there, then I rode the sober train and woke up in the fight……..I’m not making a judgement call on any of them, that’s something they have to live with. About the only way to stay out of the military is to leave the country. As far as POTUS, I don’t want any of them covering my 6 and I served to preserve that right. We don’t have to like the person who’s elected, but we have to respect the office and I will…………..

  9. It’s official: Sloan Gibson himself got involved with Rep Lee Zeldin and today they said even though my husband is 100% SC for TBI his equilibrium and eyesight isn’t despite specialists saying it is. No evidence on how he was hurt. Well, Sloan, thank you for telling us he can ignore SOCOM, National Security rules, etc and tell how he was hurt because you need to know instead of following Fast Letter 09-52 and listening to SOCOM when they sent Robert Reynolds, Scott Posti etc confirmation.

    I told Zeldin’s office to call Miller since he also sits on the House Permanent Select Intelligence Committee. It came into being after the Church Commission/Committee. John was part of a team that was put together to get around the Church Commission. I guess right before the most contested election of our lifetime is a good time to go on the record on Sloan Gibson’s go ahead.

  10. I’ll keep my comments brief. Nothing improves until people start losing their jobs for this.

    The situation won’t really be fixed, though, until people start going to prison.

  11. So my husband has over 28 diseases. Serious stuff. We go to his VA doc and they are going to do referrals to specialist. Well if we don’t keep on there ass about it, they don’t bother to follow threw. Then he gets the card for outside coverage, then he gets a letter that he is not edible. Then we ask about the referrals some months ago…. So my husband gets frustrated and gives up…… Maybe that’s what they want, for the vet to give up…..

    1. Never quit.

      Months is not acceptable. Every week. Call, every week on every referral.

      There is no excuse anymore for the VA to drop you into a hole and forget things.

  12. None of the POTUS candidates will do a damn thing about any of this once they get into office. O’Bama still isn’t doing anything about this, now is he?! Just what is McDonald doing? I’ll tell you what, he’s doing, NOTHING! They all have the same like mindedness whenever it comes to veterans. They think of us as a burden and too much of a liability. When you’re overseas shooting at those ragheads in the desert or shooting at those gooks in the rice paddies and the jungles; you are what they see as an asset. But when you become injured and disabled while doing all that, you become a liability to them and that’s how they view you for the rest of your life!

  13. As you read Ben’s blog post and the USA Today article, keep in mind this was “uncovered” under the IG, Richard Griffin’s tenure…the guy who couldn’t find his ass with both hands and a map.
    Which means wait list manipulation had to be particularly bad to be uncovered.
    Which also means just because it was not reported by the IG to be going on at some VA hospitals, it certainly was going on…just not blatant enough to demand reporting.

    1. That’s why I posted what was aired just late last night on my local news’ investigative arm on how this crap is currently still going on and ALL over.
      It seems quite evident that the VA’s “cleaning-up a majority of backlog” was simply diverted to the Appeals Black Hole or forgotten entirely, as in that Vet’s case where the VA told him to go to Honduras and obtain documentation himself that he was in a helicopter crash, saved his buddies, but DoD is playing the whole “we were never there game” on his ass.
      More than that particular case, it shows the wait times are definitely still there and growing, but the VA spin machine only speaks about it when investigations shed light on the ilk.

  14. Ben, as an attorney, do you know if it is possible for the affected Veterans to file a class-action lawsuit? Or are they precluded from doing so, i.e. “Can’t sue the government”?

  15. The republican front runner for POTUS is from NEW YORK and on his 6 is a current being paid Senator from TEXAS. I bet if you ask each one about this issue happening in their respective state they’ll both deny any knowledge. Afraid we might just get 4 more years of the same do nothing shit………….

    1. @Hondo
      Actually the “Front Runner’ (Mr Trump), IS well aware of what’s going on in VA. Many, and I do mean many, have had private meetings with him. At “Trump Towers” and before and after each rally he’s held.
      As a matter of fact, prior, (about an hour or so), to each of his rallys, veterans are taken in first! The Main Stream Media will never, and has never, put this on! Only some of the more “Right-Wing News Stations” have reported on this!
      You didn’t know this?
      Cruz, on the other hand, disregards almost EVERY QUESTION asked by veterans! Kasich, R-Oh), is the same way as Cruz!
      This is the main reason I have absolutely no respect for either one of those two asswipes! You will never hear a veterans question and answers at a Cruz or Kascich rally. Their too buzy “copy-catting” Trump’s “platform” on illegal immigration, refugees, tax plans, economic downfall, “joblessness”, “Kerry’s Iran Deal”, etc., etc.!

      1. Crazy,
        If you get right down too it, all 5 of the people running for POTUS are from the states listed. Yes, Trump is the only vocal one of the bunch but he’s also a draft dodger. Do you really think he’s going to back up what he tells us or is he just looking at the veterans community as a voting block? Clinton is a draft dodger and he didn’t do us any favors.

      2. @Hondo,

        Interesting you brought that up because that very “draft dodging” of Trump is the really only one fly in the ointment as far as where I am with my leaning heavily in Trump direction, but it’s only just a matter of time before the Repub’s. pull Paul Ryan completely out of the hat and insert him exactly where they have planned for many years, I just did not see it coming this soon, but my friends are well-aware of my sticking to this theory about Ryan going back 10 years now.
        When things become the contested convention, this will make it even easier for them to do this rope a dope. They FEAR Trump so much, so with that, perhaps Mr. Trump’s reach to Veterans and the VA problems, is his own making-up for those misgivings? Do not know. I see the rats getting scared, that tell me the government lamprey see the tits running dry, no need to worry if one is an honest politician or bureaucrat.

        So I hear you on the draft dodging. Many of the so-called privileged have this same stain. It’s choosing the best ‘stain’ at this point.

      3. Agreed, that from what i’ve read and listened to, only Mr Trump has brought up and spotlighted the VA/Veteran issue(s).

        Considering the other candidates’ dissmal responses regarding VA/Veteran issues, i don’t see how a veteran, their spouse, or their caregiver, could vote for those other candidates. too bad it seems to always be the lesser of the evil to choose a candidate these days in USA, but that’s how it is, given the fractured state of mind our great country is in these days.

        Miller should ask all the veteran law firms that handle claims for veterans dealing with VBA just how well that other part of VA is really doing. the fact many of us veterans have had to hire these attorney’s after making use of the so called VSOrgs should shed some light in that black-hole of the VA.

        zero accountability in most of the federal gov these days. any history buff knows where that scenario has led most previous countries/empires.

    2. @Hondo
      I’m a Vietnam War Combat Veteran. I’ve, for about fifteen years now, asked other “in-country” vets this question.
      It seems many of the people during the Vietnam War had information not privy to most American’s from the late 50’s, up until the end of the war, (May 15-18, 1975, “Battle of Koh Tang”!).
      That being said,

      1.) Knowing what you know now, would you have been a “Draft Dodger?”

      Most, around 95% have answered it this way;

      “YES”, because it came out the U.S. was, as was other countries, involved in that war for the “Natural Resources of South East Asia!” (Oil, Rubber, Rice and Pharmaceutical Products, to meantion the top four.) It basically had nothing to do with the “spread of communism!”

      Also, I wanted to add this. Did you know most of the Americans arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced here for “protesting against the war were NOT given Presidential Pardons!” Yet, those who “Ran Away to Canada” were!!!
      I have, as do many of my brothers, have more respect for those who stood up and fought against something they felt so strongly about and were jailed because of it. Than I do for someone who “RAN AWAY!”

      As far as Trump and his bid for President is concerned, I’m thinking on the same lines as namnibor! Maybe he’s trying to make-up for what he did! I don’t know. At least he’s the only one with balls enough to get ALL the issues on the table!!!! Not one of those other asswipes would be talking about what’s really going on right now in America, and the world, IF NOT FOR MR.TRUMP! You should agree with that at least!

      Lastly, as far as Clinton, and the other four, is concerned. Old Slick Willey and his daughter have been coming out against Obama -HARD! How they think this is going to help HitLIARy Klinton is anyone’s guess!

  16. “Wait list manipulation” is just another name for illegally altering a federal document…Why are these people not in JAIL….

  17. @namnibor,
    I see your using part of my “Toilet Bowl Flush Scenario” to get a point across! Good. The VA is definitely in need of a well intentioned “Super Laxative!”

    Their “Spin Machine”, PR Sections, is working over-time to say ‘All is Well!” Only, a majority of veterans and taxpayers know the truth.

    When the VA upper echelon is finally held accountable, only then will veterans and taxpayers know the truth!
    I believe it will happen.

    “WHEN” is the question. Until it happens all will remain the same!

    Lastly, up until this “election cycle” for POTUS. No one was talking about how veterans were being treated, and DYING due to VA’s lackadaisical, and illegal, attitudes. Only one candidate brought it to the forefront. Then other’s jumped on his bandwagon. Maybe now there’s hope!!!!
    At least I HOPE so!!

    1. Yes, and I am firmly holding onto my a$$umption that the VA requires a complete enema with Runway Aircraft Deicer fire hoses, repeat as needed.

      Here’s a story I sent to Ben as well, of here in Columbus, Cleveland, VARO/VAMC are still screwing with wait times and leavingVets in the dust. It’s a great interview that’s part of a year and half follow-up on some of these Ohio Veterans and even a sound bit appearance of Sec. Bobby. Enjoy. It’s entirely germane to this day’s article here on blog: (remove quotes fore/after)


      That story will shock you when you learn the VA actually told this Army Vet to go back to Honduras and get the documents proving he was there himself…!!!!!! Pissed, I am!

      1. Brother, I read and watched the video. “Disgusting” doesn’t begin to describe what veterans are going through. Not only in Ohio, but accross the country!
        Waiting an additional 3 months. And that one vet being told he has to get the info from Honduras is SADLY humorous to say the least.
        Then, when you hear the amount of money the VA shortchanged veterans, (over $700,000). One begins to wonder, exactly WHAT is VA doing with the BILLIONS of taxpayer’s monies they were awarded!?
        At the end, one of Channel 10’s news casters asked the question about a Congressman’s involvement. Of course, IF VA won’t discuss this with a Congressman! Well, we know the answer to that, don’t we!!!!!

        I still want to know WHAT the hell McDonald was doing in Vietnam!?
        Was he there setting up some kind of “Shell Company”? Off the monies he received from the taxpayers? Which was to “Improve the VA”??????

        Questions, Questions, Questions, Questions!!!!!

      2. Maybe Danny Pummill can help him. Notice he has scrubbed his days in that area of the world for his time in the Pentagon on 9/11.
        I personally think the things I have heard from some of the guys who claim to have known him in the ‘Honduras’ time is much more interesting
        If you look at my husband’s sanitized 2-1 (16 years are missing) Honduras was used as a ‘paperwork cleaning’ area much like Panama was for years. FB page Desk Commandos of the VA
        Fast Letter 09-52 might come into play since SOCOM grabbed a lot of those records under the 75 year hold rule meaning if the truth ever got out it could affect assets in the field or seriously hurt relations with our friendly countries. They tend to get upset when they find out about fake Catholic priests that are really Green Berets and assassination of their leaders by our snipers. The priest died about a year ago abandoned by this country.

      3. I got this from a wife of a vet from West Palm Beach. I gave her the top people in the hospital to contact. They were denying her husband even pain meds. Any lawyers want to jump in I will pass your contact info onto her. Message me on Twitter Robin Mitchell at close the VA:
        He simply not getting care from VA 3yrs to get a new primary care Dr had a free physical from Dr here they found enlarged heart blocked right ventricle has cysts on brain part of it dying from trauma found growth on testicle cord and prostate cancer he suffers from great pain VA Dr 3 weeks ago refused to look at records didn’t examine him berated him said to him what you whining crying for husband tried to explain I swear Dr said I don’t care about you heart I don’t care about you problem and I’m not giving you anything for pain VA did ultrasound on his groin tech told us get to emergency they never saw him so I’m trying to raise money for copay so he can see real specialist my cancer left us financially challenged

      4. @Robin Mitchell
        You can thank those COWARDS, McCain and Kerry for that 75 year law!

    2. The problem with accountability are the ridiculous unions (but all unions are like that!) but also the Merit Protection Board (all they protect are those who need disciplined or fired!) They overturn discipline- after waiting months. From what I have read over the past couple months it seems McDonald has actually written a bill (thought Congress was supposed to do that) to change the status of those in leadership so they no longer can appeal to the Merit Protection Board- and might actually be subject to justice. Hope Congress lets that fly.

      1. Wade, I’m familiar with the ‘bill’ your talking about.
        What it is supposed to do is what you say.
        On the flip side, it’s supposed to double the salaries!
        I’m not sure if I’d want it to pass and then be signed into law!

      2. Crazyelf- Did not hear salaries would double, is that accurate?, but would be raised. As a former business owner, I get that. How will the VA hire new upper leadership without the usual protections without having something to offer instead? If they can get rid of the problems by making these changes, I think it would be great for the VA.

      3. @Wade
        A few of us discussed that ‘bill’s” unintentional “…possible doubling of salaries” a few blogs ago. It came out on “military – com”, I believe!
        Myself and namnibor were quite upset over it.
        The amounts the upper management receives now is staggering. Can you imagine if it were doubled?

        I still want to know WHY McDonald went to Vietnam!? My belief is it had something to do with setting up something which had nothing to do with helping veterans!!! Like maybe a “Shell Company” to hide taxpayer’s monies????
        With the “Panama Papers Leaks”, I wouldn’t put anything past McDonald, Gibson, Shulkin or any other asswipe in VA!!!!?????

  18. Until an IRON HAND bearing an IRON HAMMER that’s named “VA Accountability”, *nothing* will change.
    I say that because it’s of my firm belief that VA Employees have actually become emboldened because they clearly see there’s no holding them accountable, and by all the fraud they see Upper Management and other levels at VA get away with, the rats will continue on same path until water starts to flood the hold of the VA Shit Ship.

    Neither McDonald nor Gibson have any clue how to wield that Hammer called Accountability. The VA Minions know and see this and reason why it will continue. I also firmly believe the VA Union further emboldens VA Employees to keep doing what they do with no real accountability because just as with higher management at VA, the employees clearly know the Union has their backs at the expense of Vets.

    So basically, until roto-rooter can snake the crap clogging the system from properly operating, we have a cesspool refusing to flush, let alone a courtesy flush.

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