Veterans Crisis Line Fails To Collect Data On Post-Call Suicides, Ignores Earlier IG Audit

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Veterans Crisis Line Audit

A new audit shows the Veterans Crisis Line failed to implement action plans from a February 2016 IG audit and does not collect post-call suicide data to know if it is working.

A new audit by VA OIG found VA failed to fully staff and repair deficits resulting in at least 1/3 of all calls rolling over to ill-equipped backup call centers. Further, the call centers do not collect post-call data on whether veterans still attempt or complete suicide. And making matters worse, VHA has ignored recommendations it agreed to implement from February 2016 after more than one year.

RELATED: Why Did Veteran’s Call To Veterans Crisis Line Get Routed To India?

According to the IG report:

VCL leaders defined the success of the call center partly in terms of suicide reduction. However, the VCL had no process in place for routinely obtaining or reviewing data on serious outcomes, such as attempted or completed suicides by veterans who made contact with the VCL prior to the event. By not reviewing serious adverse outcomes, VCL QM managers missed opportunities for quality improvement.

How can they measure success without knowing if veterans are being positively impacted or still completing suicide after calling?

Previously, Secretary Bob McDonald promised to fix the Veterans Crisis Line (VCL) deficiencies by September, Suicide Awareness Month. The IG report shows he failed to meet that promise.

RELATED: Veterans’ Calls To Suicide Call Center Abandoned

How can we keep pumping money into programs that lack the basic metrics necessary to know if the endeavor is even working?

Veterans Crisis Line Deficiencies

According to the IG report, present deficiencies include:

  • VCL failed to collect data regarding attempted or completed suicides following contact with VCL
  • VCL staff and supervisors failed to respond adequately to veterans’ urgent needs resulting in missed opportunities to help.
  • Mandatory documentation of calls was insufficient to allow retrospective assessment of services provided by the responder to the caller.
  • Clinical decision makers were largely excluded from decisions made by VCL governance resulting in a failure to appropriately consider clinical perspectives.
  • No permanent director has been appointed to oversee the program.
  • VCL still lacked enough staff to answer calls resulting in calls rolling over to backup call centers contracted by an external vendor who were not properly trained.

RELATED: Suicidal Veterans’ Calls Blocked At Call Center

Veterans Crisis Line Ignored Recommendations

In addition, let’s not forget the recommendations IG made in February 2016 that VHA agreed to but failed to implement. These were:

Recommendation 1.

We recommended that the OMHO (now VHA Member Services) Executive Director ensure that issues regarding response hold times when callers are routed to backup crisis centers are addressed and that data is collected, analyzed, tracked, and trended on an ongoing basis to identify system issues. 

Appropriate VHA leaders did not demonstrate the use of the Link2Health data to improve performance. Although we found evidence that VCL staff reviewed

Link2Health data, we did not find that they used the data systematically to provide feedback to backup centers regarding performance parameters such as queue times, abandonment rate, and call answer rate. At the time of this report, VHA had not completed the necessary actions to close this recommendation.

Recommendation 2.

We recommended that the Member Services Executive Director ensure that orientation and ongoing training for all VCL staff is completed and documented.

We found that VHA did not ensure that orientation and ongoing training for all VCL staff was completed and documented. At the time of this report, VHA had not completed the necessary actions to close this recommendation.

Recommendation 3.

We recommended that the Member Services Executive Director ensure that silent monitoring frequency meets the VCL and American Association of Suicidology requirements and that compliance is monitored.

We found that VHA had not yet ensured that the VCL establish a requirement for silent monitoring frequency of VCL calls and therefore could not have monitored compliance with such a requirement. VHA requested an extension until March 2017, and this recommendation remains open.

Recommendation 4.

We recommended that the Member Services Executive Director establish a formal quality assurance process, as required by VHA, to identify system issues by collecting, analyzing, tracking, and trending data from the VCL routing system and backup centers, and that subsequent actions are implemented and tracked to resolution.

The VCL lacked key components of a formal quality assurance process necessary to comply with VHA requirements. Specifically, the VCL had not designated individuals with appropriate background and skills to provide leadership to promote quality and safety of care. VCL policies did not incorporate relevant existing VHA directives outlining the key elements of a successful QM program. The VCL also lacked a committee that regularly reviewed data, information, or risk intelligence, and that ensured that key quality, safety, and value functions were discussed and integrated into VCL processes. VHA requested a deadline extension of March 2017 to implement this recommendation.

Recommendation 5.

We recommended that the Member Services Executive Director consider the development of a VHA directive or handbook for the VCL.

VHA concurred in the original response to this recommendation and stated it would establish a VHA directive for the VCL. We found that while VHA had made significant progress, it had not completed a VHA directive for operating the VCL (such as outlining the VCL purpose, roles and responsibilities). VHA requested a deadline extension of March 2017 to complete the VHA directive for the VCL.

Recommendation 6.

We recommended that the Member Services Executive Director ensure that contractual arrangements concerning the VCL include specific language regarding training compliance, supervision, comprehensiveness of information provided in contact and disposition emails, and quality assurance tasks.

We found that while VHA established a new contract in April 2016 with a goal of improved quality assurance monitoring, VHA did not ensure compliance with the quality assurance surveillance plan for VCL backup center performance. VHA planned to extend the current contract for 6 months and requested an extension for implementation of this recommendation until September 2017.

Recommendation 7.

We recommended that the Member Services Executive Director consider the development of algorithms or progressive situation-specific stepwise processes to provide guidance in the rescue process.

VHA stated that they were developing standard work processes for all caller types including SSA responsibilities during emergency dispatch. We found that VCL managers developed standard situation-specific progressive stepwise processes to provide guidance in the rescue processes. However, VHA needs to demonstrate the training and competence of SSAs on the current protocol to achieve closure. VHA requested a deadline extension of March 2017 to implement this recommendation.

Which of any of these points concern you the most and why?

Source: https://www.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-16-03985-181.pdf

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cj
cj

The picture of the blonde and the bubblized comment says it all. A picture and it bubble are worth a thousand words.

Don Karg
Don Karg
03/24/2017 Dear Benjamin Krause, The VA has pulled this stunt over and over at the call center and defrauding the American Taxpayer—all the while pissing off Veterans and their families—many are killing themselves at the rate of 22 a day —if not more than 30 a day [Who is doing the counting?]. What is the definition of insanity? Google: in·san·i·ty inˈsanədē/ noun the state of being seriously mentally ill; madness. “he suffered from bouts of insanity” synonyms: mental illness, madness, dementia; More extreme foolishness or irrationality. plural noun: insanities “it might be pure insanity to take this loan” synonyms: folly,… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor
@Don Karg- Real world definition of insanity and approved by Albert Einstein: “Doing something repeatedly and expecting a different outcome every time”….(e.g. Slamming one’s head against a rough wall repeatedly, expecting it to not hurt the next time. or Dealing with indifferent incompetent asses at the VA and expecting some real medicine with compassion and empathy. or Expecting each and every day for the VA to do the right thing. or Expecting the VA to even follow recommendations from an VAOIG report, but the VA sure is DAMN PROUD they redefined the Veteran Suicide Rate from 22 to 20 a… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor
“[Which of any of these points concern you the most and why?]” All -7- are equally egregious to my mind but… “[Recommendation 3. We recommended that the Member Services Executive Director ensure that silent monitoring frequency meets the VCL and American Association of Suicidology requirements and that compliance is monitored. We found that VHA had not yet ensured that the VCL establish a requirement for silent monitoring frequency of VCL calls and therefore could not have monitored compliance with such a requirement. VHA requested an extension until March 2017, and this recommendation remains open.]” ^#3 stands-out in particular in that… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor
Okay, let me mention another thing that raises the hair on my back and fills me with the urge to defecate this morning: Although I fully recognize the word “Veteran” is completely within the “Veteran Crisis Line, (VCL)” all throughout those -7- entirely missed points and opportunities for the VA to do the right thing for VETERANS and Suicide Prevention, but even the lack of using the term “VETERANS” in their damn reports, reducing it to yet another anagram within (VCL), where “VETERANS” are getting LOST…JUST LIKE THE WAY THEY TALK ABOUT US…reduced to a more pleasant on the eye… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

In all of those 84 pages in the pdf OIG report, the term “Veteran” is sidestepped throughout…and although the VA goes to great length to define and redefine what suicide IS and how it affects us “globally”, the VA cannot bring themselves to call it the ugly truthful name of “Veteran Suicides Caused or Instigated by VA”. –ADD THAT to the glossary of “initials” in that damn report.

Notice in all of that list of initials used by VAOIG, “Veteran” is also vacant…it should have an entry such as: VETERAN- Ticket To Cookie Jar (TTCJ) hereafter.

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran
Great “Bad VA” Art today, Ben. What concerns me most about the whole sorry mess is that veterans who have honorably served this nation are killing themselves every day because they cannot stand the pain. For some, it is the physical, chronic debilitating pain that not being able to adapt to, or get decent relief from. For others, it is the mental pain that years of dealing with a corrupt, illogical, bloated VA bureaucracy that spends millions upon millions for positive PR – – – yet cannot deliver the most basic healthcare competently. A Veteran suffering from PTSD is not… Read more »
Crazy elf
Crazy elf
Until ALL who are in Washington DC, and it’s many substandard agencies, are held accountable and responsible for their misuse of power and taxpayers monies, ———— I see little to NO change in our healthcare system – be it through the VA or civilian systems! I also believe, UNTIL these ingrates, who profess to be “OUR” representatives, start acting like “grown-ups”, “WE THE PEOPLE ARE FUCKED!” There’s so damn much corruption in all facets of our government, from local to federal, it’s too hard to keep up with it all! It was reported, (Utube video), last night, during the confirmation… Read more »
OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

There’s so damn much corruption in all facets of our government, from local to federal, it’s too hard to keep up with it all!………….bottom line that is the problem

Ralph D Carmona Sr
Ralph D Carmona Sr
Mr Crazy Elf; I’m pissed too. In fact I am so pissed that I quit posting here. Not that I disagree with Ben or my brothers (and sisters) who post their comments here. It’s that while rereading my own posts here that I realized all my posts sounded the same. Kill ’em, machine gun ’em, stomp ’em etc, etc, etc. This was and is no good for our cause. But God Damn It I’m pissed!!! In 05 i got a liver transplant (hep c). To give you an idea of how bad it really was. I died three times waiting… Read more »
cj
cj

@Ralph D Carmona Sr: Ralph, I am truly sorry to hear of your health, I wish the rest of your life is as pain free as possible, and you are somehow able to enjoy the time you have left with you loving family. My thoughts are with you.

namnibor
namnibor

@Ralph D Carmona Sr: You do not need to give these rat bastards any excuse to use you as a statistic or any satisfaction in letting them win by lowering your integrity. You have our prayers and try to make the very best of each day you have with your family.

Ralph D Carmona Sr
Ralph D Carmona Sr
Thank you cj and namnibor your support is very welcome. When I wrote “I doubt that when the time comes” It should have read I DON’T doubt that when the time comes. While I won’t allow myself to get that sick again. Meaning that I wouldn’t be in a position to “Get some payback’ but my final question remains valid. And while I’m still on a rant here I would like to thank Ben and EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU who comment here. I’m here every day and your words mean the world to me. Once again, THANK YOU… Read more »
NiteWish
NiteWish
Ralph D Carmona Sr Your comment touched a nerve, one of the last few I have & after having rolled varies thoughts around my being; I want to provide feedback. In 2013 a Citation of Honor was awarded to the Veterans Health Administration for providing palliative[relieving pain without dealing with the cause of the condition] & end-of-life care services to Veterans throughout the country — is that a joke cause I’m not laughing. 5 states have Death with Dignity statutes: California (End of Life Option Act; 2016) Colorado (End of Life Options Act; 2016) Oregon (Oregon Death with Dignity Act;… Read more »
touchavet@gmail.com

It’s quite evident that in most cases the only post’s which survive are the ones that are Pro VA and speak positively about a government service that is so archaic and inept that to describe it honestly would identify criminal activities. I am sure there are clinics in some distant towns which have the veterans care in mind. Guess I have not been there yet.
I my state at least (MI) millions are spend on advertising TV and Radio praising the services of the VA but nobody os listening.

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

RALPH CARMONA check this article and web sight it might help you out. i have tried all three and vitamin B17 it worked for me. sometimes you have to think outside of the box
Conquer Fear and Live Free Treating Cancer with Voltage, Alkalinity and Oxygen……here is my email address [email protected]…. I had nothing to lose so i tried it

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

RALPH CARMONA check this article and web sight it might help you out. i have tried all three and vitamin B17 it worked for me. sometimes you have to think outside of the box
Conquer Fear and Live Free Treating Cancer with Voltage, Alkalinity and Oxygen……here is my email address ….”[email protected]”…. I had nothing to lose so i tried it…….i don’t give a fuck who has me e mail address fuck the VA. MY PHONE IS ALWAYS CLICKING SO I MUST BE ON SOMEBODY’S SHIT LIST….LOL

namnibor
namnibor

The VA’s ICARE:

Indifference
Clouds
Accountability
Really
Efficiently

Lem
Lem

As always privatization results in cost cutting through unskilled personnel resources and failed contract enforcement. What is new?

Dennis
Dennis
The crisis lines are a complete failure and they know it. Truth is that we ALL know it. Suicide is the problem that everyone lowers their voices to talk about, averts their gaze from patients who are afflicted with suicidal ideation, and VERY quickly change the subject when the idea of ending your own trail comes up. With VA it goes FAR, FAR, FAR beyond the societal fact that almost every child is kept in the dark around the family dinner table about suicide. I could spare enormous discomfort by simply repeating the fact that government is put in place… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

Well-stated!!! (and really f^cked-up)

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

Well stated Dennis!
I agree with namnibor, (“fucked up!”)

lawyerlynn
lawyerlynn
required reading for everyone. i called the call center one time. i was crying like crazy. the little girl on the answering end interrupted me and told me in a scolding voice that this suicide line is for veterans. i told everyone at the VA about this when they want me to call if i feel suicidal. i tell them i will not ever call, and i refuse to take the card. this suicide call line is to make you commit suicide. if every vet had a buddy to call, or a few, that might help. i don’t really know… Read more »
VA IS LYINF INC.

VA CRISIS HOTLINE ONE BIG BIG FRDERSAL RICO CRIME RACKET RUN BY @ GFOR AFGE UNION CONTRACTS VETS YO ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SCREWED AGIN @ AGIN @ AGIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran
Awesome commentary, Dennis. Your experience as related quite obviously provided for what the VA terms “Good Veteran Outcomes”. Thank you for sharing with us. What a bunch of fucktards these PC pussies are. 33 % of them simply don’t give a shit. 33 % of them won’t recognize the problem until it bites them in the ass, and the remainder actively work to get the veterans who call that number to end their life. I have had a few encounters with the police as well over the same subject. Fortunately (for me) not as horrific as yours. Still not pleasant,… Read more »
touchavet@gmail.com

I was that Fire Fighter on many occasions that picked up the pieces of the Vet. Being a Vietnam Vet with PTSD and having to bag another brother was always very hard to live through.

lawyerlynn
lawyerlynn
Which of any of these points concern you the most and why? Ben, all of these “points” concern me. They seem to be more nonsensical mishmash. Deception and time-buying while the machine continues to eat people. Part of the deception here is that this VA problem is merely a business problem. And the VA is a business. They run it in a way that maximizes their (directors, officers, and shareholders) profit. Or, if it is a nonprofit, then they maximize it for their take of the nonprofit. While the VA makes it seem like massive problems that mire in bureaucracy… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor
Oh, I have to get this off my chest after trying to watch local news here now: I could give a dozen rat’s asses about where the hell Tom Brady’s super bowl jersey was found and the scandal the news just gobbles-up, along with the continual droning-on of McCain and Graham….while the VA Swamp is so polluted it’s on fire like the Cuyahoga Rover up in Cleveland did once. I’m thinking most Americans will quickly forget anything about Tom Brady’s jersey when they go to call an ambulance to go to ER under proposed new healthcare bill, and you find… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

_RIVER_ Had a neurological twitch of rage there.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet
Why are all of you complaining about the VA? Can’t you see that the VA sets a perfect example, of how the United States Government takes care of the ones that served their country? Veterans have no reason to complain, most Veterans get free healthcare. And when they need immediate help during a crisis, they can use a secondary contact to leave a message for a VA representative to call them back. For me, I’m still waiting. Has anyone got a call back when they contacted the VA for immediate help? Who else is there that might be able to… Read more »
Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

Your first paragraph gave me a much needed chuckle. Your second and third paragraphs were spot on as usual.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet
@Disgruntled Veteran – Glad you got a little abdominal reflex from the contents of my post. VA continues to pull their dam circle jerking tactics, that effects my entire household. Its hard to keep a balance in my life and to think positive. I’m not complaining, I’m just expressing how it is when dealing with this screwed up agency. My goodness DV, for the life of me, I can’t see why there isn’t only one person that puts the hot flaming rod of fire on the VA’s anal sphincter, to open up the gateway of changes. Those of us that… Read more »
Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran
ANutterVet – – – Haven’t got it yet. Other things have used the funds I had set aside for that. Someday, then I will be able to be much more productive. Still, try to just push through – – – even if it means I must abandon caps and punctuation in order to get commentary out at times. I know the Brothers and Sisters here understand, as we all have medical crosses to bear. New computer coming into house soon – – – that one will be running LINUX. Wundozing10 is IMHO a VA designed O/S. You will know by… Read more »
Windguy
Windguy

And they wonder why guys are blowing their brains out in front of VA hospitals. The VA will next install perimeter gates and fences and search cars for weapons before entering. That way we can kill ourselves off government property. “Didn’t Happen Here …Phew”

namnibor
namnibor

Nah, the VA spared no expense. They will now require every Veteran stepping on VA Federal Property to wear a human head neck collar like the type your Veterinarian places on your pet after a surgery, but this large diameter Veteran Blast Collar (VBC) will be there to prevent we Vets from blowing our brains out. 🙂

(dark humor warning, it’s my coping mechanism, just deal with it and roll with it…)

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

More like to catch the fluids and gray matter that emanate from our heads when we do blow our brains out. That way, they will not have to exert the required effort to clean up the mess . . .

namnibor
namnibor

You make a valid point. The Kevlar Veteran Blast Collar also acts as a funnel for the liquefaction contents to bag for the Jeffery Dahmer’s working in the VA basements. Less work, less fuss.
Stay away from the loafing meat and the meat loaf at the Canteen Cafeteria.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Namnibor – Are these collars reusable? And adjustable? Lowers cost.

namnibor
namnibor

Yup! Adjustable, just like a radiator hose clamp with the screw. Because Vet’s always seem to get the screw in the end.

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran
@Nam – – – Being that we are nearly the same age, and attended our “graduate courses in real-world foreign-soil military training” just a few years (at most) apart, I suspect our sense of humor is quite similar. Tough and Dark. Remember. “It don’t mean a thing . . . ” as we used to say about the most meaningful and serious subjects a human could be expected to face, let alone function through. By and large, tough, dark humor is something most Americans do not seem to handle too well. But in our youth – – – it helped… Read more »
NiteWish
NiteWish
I had to go find this from my deleted stuff VA sent this email out yesterday. Perhaps the chat online & text messages are considered “the fix” VA fixes Veterans Crisis Line In response to the recently released VA Office of Inspector General (OIG) report that reviewed processes from June 6 through Dec. 15, 2016, of the Veterans Crisis Line (VCL), the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) released the following statement: “The Department of Veterans Affairs is proud to announce that the challenges with the Veterans Crisis Line have been resolved. Prior to the opening of our new Atlanta call… Read more »
cj
cj
This is some President huh? just like he last one, and the one before, and so on. AS for the opiod issue, he could stop this madness with an executive horderve, and yet, where is it? He could change instantly many issues to help veterans, and yet, where is it? Not a single Congressman or Senator has the balls to block anything that is detrimental to veterans, yet not a single one has lifted a finger to help. We have rapists running amuk in all branches of the military, and yet nothing is ever done, after all it is the… Read more »
lawyerlynn
lawyerlynn

* boycott *
which is just common sense, not really revolutionary.
boycott what? all of it.

there’s a start.

good rant, cj. it’s a great read. punctuation/grammar? i don’t care because i can read big blocks but others might bog down. and i’d like everyone to read the whole thing. it’s good.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@lawyerlynn – I believe what cj is stating is that the whole dam system is amuck. The system is glued together with so much bullshit that it stinks when your not even close to it. A disgrace to the human race. There are no party affiliations when it comes to the issues that we Veterans face and that we have to battle against.

cj
cj
@laweyelynn: Thank you Lynn, I wish I was capable of proper punctuation, and paragraph formation. I am not, and most times my spelling is just as horrible. There was a time, but no longer. My mind is inured and no longer works like it should. Each day another veteran post the trechory they have been subjected to. How much of this can we take? How long are we going to sit by and do nothing while our brothers and sisters have to live a life in both phsyical pain and mental pain. I love each and everyone of them and… Read more »
lawyerlynn
lawyerlynn
CJ, yes, it’s alot of sad story. I didn’t mean to insult you or micromanage your post, i was just wanting everyone to be able to easily read what you wrote. I think you asked what can we do … My suggestion is to boycott. That’s all. It’s something we can do. Not one here can round up a posse and go get the bad guys. So we can do what we can to help change the system, stay away from anything system-y as we can until it changes. Or until we get our own system. Start small & keep… Read more »
cj
cj
@lawyerlynn: Lynn, I din’t take anything you said as insulting, I though it was constructive, and not micro managing. I am a lot more thick skinned than that 🙂 I apreciate feedback of any kind, it is how discusions happen right? I have said this before here, I view all of us as one big family, and as a family we may not always get along, thats okay too. Even if we are at each others throats at times, we are all bound by the same blood. I would hope that, that kind of bond by blood, would transcend all… Read more »
cj
cj

@Lawyerlynn not laweyelynn, I told you my spelling can be horrible.

cj
cj

@Lawyerlynn: Boycott all of it. Won’t that play into their hands? We boycott, they spend no money on us at all, That gives them even more money for bonuses. Am I wrong here?

lawyerlynn
lawyerlynn
lol. i don’t care about spelling. if enough boycott, it will tip over. must have bodies thru the grinder or grinder will seize? i read what you wrote and wanted you to know i got the message and at least offer one idea to think about. maybe it’s easy for me to say stay away because i don’t really have a choice, being called an abuser for speaking too loudly & saying some truth to dr. ahhhmad that hurt his feelings, apparently. so i am in defacto boycott, but anyone who has trouble should go somewhere else, the problem is… Read more »
ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@lawyerlynn – Boycotting? Sounds good but it is not feasible. I’d die because there are services that I need from the VA on a monthly basis. Its hard to boycott from your healthcare when the VA holds the carrot, and they know that Veterans are the donkeys. Holding the VA accountable is the only solution. Shootz, the VA can’t even hit the mark of success with their own plans that they create. Let Veterans run the VA, and get the union out of the mix. Just sayin.

Windguy
Windguy

Try to be optimistic now. Positive lip service should begin in about 3 years. They all have to wave that flag early in the elections. If were good boys and girls, we’ll hear about our brave saps …. veterans in 2 1/2 years.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Windguy – And then there will be some that say, “oh yes, it will be fine, go ahead and hold your breath. They’ll be getting back to you before they shut the lid.” LMAO, not really.

Disgruntled Veteran
Disgruntled Veteran

CJ says: “AS for the opiod issue, he could stop this madness with an executive horderve,”

Not sure that a full State Dinner for America’s Disabled Vets could feed the hunger among our nation’s broken patriots that these asswipes have created, let alone a hors d’oeuvre.

Great Rant. Your points well taken.

How’s Abbott your end? Costello doing just fine here.

cj
cj

@Disgrunted Veteran: LOL I should have used a better term than “horderve” In my fucked up mind “horderve” sounded close enough to order, only from the spoiled DC crowd, that care not about us peasants. And, then there was that whole temporary insanity business, just befor hitting the “post” button like I was launching ICBM’s. Scwewy wabbit:
┈╱▔▔▔╲▕╱╱╱▔▔▔╲
╱╭╱▔╲╮▔┈▔╭╱▔╲╮╲┈
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┈┈┈┈▔▔┗━┛▔▔┈

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

The VA doesn’t care about Veterans, their spouses, or other family members. They could care less if your in distress, even when you call out for help. Useless. Fucking useless. An agency that has been dealing with Veterans issues for decades, and still can’t get it right. All they care about is getting funding for their existence which is a mirage that shows the uneducated or non caring public that Veterans are being taken of. What a crock of shit.

I’m still waiting to get off the VA’s Circle Jerking Train of Promises. Anybody listening? No time for fucking jokes.

C A Jones
C A Jones
I just returned from a “Welcome Back from Vietnam” put on at the Lee County Florida VA Clinic. I waited 47 years and drove 32 miles each way for stale coffee, a cookie and VA propaganda material. The Lee County VSO’ were there and as confused as ever. No cake, no balloons. I passed on the cookie. I asked a specific question about my upcoming C&P exam. The VSO replied yes or maybe no. Brilliant. He was interested in the cookies. I was offered a tin badge of some sort and a sticker. Lame, Lame, Lame . Per a VA… Read more »
Lem
Lem

You just came up with a good idea. We should host an attorney meets client forum at such venue as can be locally obtained for veterans who need representation.

Will start working on one here in Torrington, Wyoming./

cj
cj

I don’t believe they forgot to collect any data. I think they have been collecting it all along. I think a more likely senario is, the data wasn’t what they wanted to see. What they then did, was send it to the National archives in St louis, and it all ended up just like this: “http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/federal-workers-dumped-stashed-or-trashed-records-at-st-louis/article_8611ae42-359d-539d-b21c-5e864b02d672.html”

cj
cj

Gone for the rest of the day, will talk later gators. Be carefull out there, eyes are upon you.
¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ ‘̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/’̿̿ ̿ ̿̿

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

I was pondering for quite some time, why is it that some VA employees seem to be a little bitchy. And then the answer hit me. “They’re nothing by dehydrated bloated toads, with a large dropping stuck halfway out of their anal sphincter, and the dropping shimmies a little up, then a little down.” Then I understood what these poor VA employees were going through. And then that’s when compassion hit me. Boy, what a relief, and now I feel better too.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

@Namnibor – Did my post ^above^ hit the mark. I’m searching my heart for understanding and compassion.

ANutterVet
ANutterVet

I’m sorry, I’m not telling the truth.

namnibor
namnibor

Somehow, my dinner of Singapore Noodles and a saved for desert, a coconut covered date bar, is not so appetizing now! 🙂

Jo3n
Understanding and compassion, I know you are using those words for Veterans, and not VA. Even though, I believe in prayers for my enemy. I know Dennis covered how I feel in dealing with the VA, and in his usual eloquent way. @Cj is feeling it. Hell, we all are fed up. LawyerLyn(sp….), I like the idea of striking back. I would most likely be part of something, just don’t think I’ve heard it yet. @Lem, You’ve come up with some good stuff. I too wonder what Dr. Shulkin and POTUS are thinking. Hope one of them will speak up,… Read more »
cj
cj

How is everyone tonight?

cj
cj

Okay folks, Hope everyone sleeps well. God Bless you all.

namnibor
namnibor
Let me be brutally honest here while remaining optimistic: The way the train wreck of the proposed Obamacare replacement was at the last minute, and learning they even knee-jerked and did some oral service to their owners (or donors…easily confused), and those bastards even *removed* Mental Healthcare coverage and other important healthcare scenarios/treatments. We now know it did not pass because other swamp beasts could not vote for it and face the torches and pitchforks from those pesky villagers (sometimes they even vote), so Obamacare is now left…”to let it explode”, as Pres. Trump said. Concerning regarding our plight and… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

“69 Train Wrecks” = “VA Circle Jerks” (VACJ)

ANutterVet
ANutterVet
@Namnibor – Your wrong. Utter nonsense. Your information will bound things up. For the VA to change, each Medical Center and Clinic needs to strategically place [preferably at the front entrance], the new Glutial Max Spreader Pro with the new and improved Old Time Soapy Suds Powder [now with water dissolved silicone gel encapsulated in high surface tension microbeads with laser holes for fast lubricant release]. For easy access, each Glutial Max Spreader Pro should be placed at the entrance of each VA facility or clinic. For best results, use hot scolding water. This should loosen things up to increase… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor
Great idea that might be a bit tidier in making the VA implode upon itself like a black hole swallowing itself…we simply dump a dump truck load of alum at each VA entrance, in which the alum will cause a vise-like tightening and closure of the sphincter called the VA, so tight that just like a black hole, swallows itself into oblivion. Even the stench would be engulfed. Nice and tidy. Then start over. It may likely require the back-up of our military jets to fend-off the VA and DOD from launching the likely counterattack, which would be the VA’s… Read more »
Jo3n

@ANutterVet, you sure cleared that up. The VA wants us dead. Why would anyone believe that the VA wants to save lives? No bonuses in that. VA shouldn’t handle Veterans suicide hot line. It’s counter productivity for them.

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