Human Experimentation

In the 1960s and 1970s, the Pentagon conducted secret human experiments on military personnel using chemical and biological weapons.

Some 6,000 soldiers were experimented on in such programs known as Project 112 and SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense) between 1962 and 1974. The tests included the use of Sarin and Vx gas as well as E. Coli. to supposedly to evaluate ship and troop weaknesses to develop response plans.

Demanding Answers For Human Experiments

Congress and veterans groups are now demanding to know what happened – and who suffered – from the human experiments.

“It’s been over 50 years since these tests were conducted and the DOD has yet to provide a complete accounting of what truly happened to our service members,” Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA, said. “Veterans can’t wait any longer.”

Veterans say they need answers to get the proper medical care.

“This amendment would help veterans exposed to chemical and biological agents get the access to care and benefits they’ve earned through their service,” said John J. Gennace, assistant director of the American Legion’s national legislative division.

Background On What Was Admitted Already

According to McClatchyDC:

Information about the tests first surfaced in 2000. At the request of the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Pentagon released some limited data about the nature of the tests, including the locations and the agents used. Since then, the VA has sponsored studies by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine in 2007 and 2016 to look at the tests’ effects.

While they found no significant difference in the health of veterans involved in the tests and those who were not, the authors acknowledged the difficulty of studying this issue.

“Our task was challenging because of the passage of time since the tests, and because many of the documents related to the tests remain classified,” last year’s report said. “Our requests for declassification of additional documents were not approved.”

The Pentagon did not immediately respond to request for comment and neither did the VA spokesperson.

Was It A Crime?

Now, last I checked, secret experiments on humans was considered a war crime or a crime against humanity where some Nazis are still evading accountability.

So, how is it DOD, right under our noses, is allowed to keep secret the effects of the unlawful human experiments and the identities of those affected? Should those who ordered the experiments be prosecuted for their crimes?

War crime? Crime against humanity? Just a crime?

Source: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/mcclatchys-america/article160998169.html

91 COMMENTS

    • Morrison & Foerster Files Suit Against CIA, DoD, and U.S. Army on Behalf of Troops Exposed to Testing of Chemical and Biological Weapons at Edgewood Arsenal and Other Top-Secret Sites
      PRESS CONFERENCE: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10 a.m. PST
      “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20090107-Morrison-Files-Suit.pdf”

      Vietnam Veterans of America, et al. v. CIA, et al.

      Defendants include the CIA, the Department of the Army, the Department of Defense (“DoD”), and various government officials responsible for these agencies. The CIA secretly provided financing, personnel, and direction for the experiments, which were mainly conducted or contracted by the Army.
      Plaintiffs seek declaratory and injunctive relief only – no monetary damages – and Plaintiffs seek redress for 25 years of diabolical experiments followed by over 30 years of neglect

    • Morrison & Foerster Secures Victory for Troops Exposed to Chemical and Biological Weapons Testing in Case Against the U.S. Government
      “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20100120-Morrison-Secures-Victory.pdf”

      SAN FRANCISCO (January 20, 2010) – Morrison & Foerster yesterday won the right to proceed with a case against the CIA, the Department of Defense, and the U.S. Army, filed on behalf of veterans rights organizations Vietnam Veterans of America and Swords to Plowshares, along with six veterans with multiple diseases and ailments, tied to a secret testing program in which U.S. military personnel were deliberately exposed to chemical and biological weapons and other toxins without informed consent. Plaintiffs seek declaratory and injunctive relief that would free them from their secrecy oaths and grant them healthcare that they were promised.

      The human experimentation program launched in the early 1950s and continued through at least 1976 when it was suspended in response to hearings conducted by Congress. Thousands of experiments took place at the Edgewood Arsenal and Fort Detrick, as well as several universities and hospitals across America contracted by the Defendants. “Volunteers” were exposed to thousands of toxins under code names such as MKULTRA, including drugs such as LSD, mescaline, and cannabis; biological substances such as plague and anthrax; and noxious gases such as sarin, tabun, and nerve gases.

    • Veterans File for Class Certification in Chemical, Biological Weapons Testing Case
      San Francisco, Calif. 2/9/12
      “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20120209-Veterans-File-For-Class-Certification.pdf”

      The research programs at issue, concentrated at the Army’s facilities at the Edgewood Arsenal and Fort Detrick, Maryland, allegedly tested more than 400 different chemical and biological substances during five decades in locations throughout the U.S. and abroad, and involved an estimated 100,000 active duty military personnel. The substances tested ranged from drugs or chemicals such as LSD, mescaline, BZ, amphetamines, mustard gas, sarin, CS (riot control agent), and a THC analog called “red oil,” to biological substances such as anthrax, botulism, plague, tularemia, Q fever, as well as crop destruction agents such as dioxin, used in Agent Orange. Plaintiffs allege that none of the “volunteers” for the program provided informed consent, that some experiments were conducted on unwitting participants, and that the testing program involved multiple violations of the Nuremberg Law.

      Discovery and investigation in the case have shown that the Department of Veterans Affairs actively participated in the human research program, using veterans as test subjects. Yet plaintiffs contend, that same DVA is tasked with deciding veterans’ disability claims. DVA outreach reports show that it has denied between 97% and 99% of all disability or death claims arising out of the exposures. Plaintiffs claim that the DVA is biased against granting claims due to its self-interest in the issues. The claims process has also been complicated by Department of Defense claims that it cannot find records to substantiate most of the veterans’ participation in the tests, causing DVA to summarily deny those claims.

    • Morrison & Foerster Secures Injunction to Compel Army to Disclose Details and Health Effects of Chemical Experiments to Veterans
      SAN FRANCISCO (November 20, 2013)
      “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20131120-Edgewood-Press-Release.pdf”

      U.S. District Judge Claudia Wilken granted summary judgment that the Army has “an ongoing duty to warn members of the class about newly acquired information that may affect their well-being now and in the future as it becomes available,” and enjoined the Army to inform veterans about the nature, duration and possible health effects of the biological or chemical experiments. The Army is required to provide the court with a plan for notifying veterans about the experiments within 90 days. The court also found that Army Regulation 70-25 “entitles Plaintiffs to medical care for any disabilities, injuries or illnesses suffered as a result of participation in the experimentation program.” The court declined to enjoin the Army to provide such care under its own regulation, however, “because the [Department of Veterans Affairs] is required to do so.”

      The research programs at issue, many of which were concentrated at the Army’s facilities at the Edgewood Arsenal and Fort Detrick, Maryland, allegedly tested more than 400 different chemical and biological substances during a period spanning five decades, and involved tens of thousands of active duty military personnel. The substances tested ranged from drugs or chemicals (sarin, LSD, BZ, mustard gas and a THC analog called “red oil”) to biological weapon agents such as tularemia and Q-Fever.

      Studies have shown that the so-called “testvets” experience post-traumatic stress disorder, and a variety of other diseases or ailments associated with the test substances

    • Morrison & Foerster Wins Ninth Circuit Victory for Class of Veterans That Participated in the Army’s Decades-Long Chemical Testing Program
      Appeals court panel confirms U.S. Army’s duty to inform affected veterans about their health and to treat them; MoFo has represented vets pro bono since case was filed in 2009
      SAN FRANCISCO (July 1, 2015)
      “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20150701-MoFo-Wins-Ninth-Circuit-Victory-For-Veterans.pdf”

      The district court’s 2013 ruling concluded that the Army was obligated to treat veterans involved in the tests, but that an injunction was unnecessary in light of veterans’ access to medical care from the VA. The appellate panel vacated this portion of the lower court’s decision, writing, “we cannot agree that the Army’s duty to provide care is excused by the availability of medical care from another government agency, even if that care that would overlap to some degree and in some manner with the care that the Army is required to provide.” The panel instructed the district court to formulate an appropriate injunction on remand.

    • MORRISON & FOERSTER WINS ANOTHER NINTH CIRCUIT VICTORY FOR CLASS OF VETERANS THAT PARTICIPATED IN ARMY’S DECADES-LONG CHEMICAL TESTING PROGRAM
      Appeals court panel denies government’s petition for rehearing
      SAN FRANCISCO (January 27, 2016)
      “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20160202-MoFo-Wins-Another-Ninth-Circuit-Victory-For-Veterans.pdf”

      In 2013, U.S. Senior District Judge Claudia Wilken concluded that the Army was obligated to treat veterans involved in the tests, but that an injunction was unnecessary in light of veterans’ access to medical care from the VA. The appellate panel vacated this portion of the lower court’s decision, writing, “we cannot agree that the Army’s duty to provide care is excused by the availability of medical care from another government agency, even if that care that would overlap to some degree and in some manner with the care that the Army is required to provide.” The panel instructed the district court to formulate an appropriate injunction on remand.

      For more information about this case, see “http://www.edgewoodtestvets.org”.

      • I will check my notes and send some info on several you may want to hear about.

        The main one was “Restream.io”. Where you broadcast to it online then you can have that stream broadcast to Facebook, YouTube, WordPress and other streaming channels all at the same time. That is so you do not have to stream multiple streams from the same computer and the same connection.

        One of the Broadcast software packages that support Restream and it’s multichannel capabilities is “Open Broadcaster Software” (OBS). Seems very easy to set up.
        “https://support.restream.io/encoders-and-broadcast-software/how-to-connect-obs-classic-to-restream”

        A great Vid on how easy setting it up for live interviews with chats and messaging included is at: “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPP4h7QXW_U”

  1. Unfortunately the Newly appointed Deputy of the Veterans Administration Thomas Bowman has been involved with the cover up since the 1960s.

    DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE REVIEW OF ALLEGATIONS
    CONCERNING “OPERATION TAILWIND”
    JULY 21, 1998
    “http://www.dod.gov/pubs/tailwind.html”

    M2 PRESSWIRE-23 July 1998-U.S. DOD: DoD news briefing (C)1994-98 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

    * Operation TAILWIND

    Colonel Tom Bowman, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, also a Judge Advocate General

    Excerpt from briefing text:

    Colonel Bowman: When you have the opportunity to review in the reading room the volumes that relate to the service reports you will obviously come across the Joint Staff report. In that report there are certain documents that have redactions. We’re not aware of any repository of documents as it relates to TAILWIND that exists elsewhere that are subject to a FOIA request, not yet having been acted on.

    So as far as we know, what we have in our basic report plus the services’ reports in their tabs is the history of TAILWIND as we have it in documented form.

    Q: Can you give the reasons behind some of the redactions in the documents in the reading room?

    Colonel Bowman: As it relates to certain of the redactions, I think the question will have to be addressed to the Central Intelligence Agency. They in turn can deal with the whole issue as to why something may or may not have been redacted. We can’t comment on it.

    Q: Can we get your full name, Colonel?

    Colonel Bowman: Colonel Thomas G. Bowman, B-O-W-M-A-N.

    • Then while this case was being researched before the filing in 2009 Thomas Bowman was taking marching orders from the CIA on information releases connected to the case.

      “Case4:09-cv-00037-CW Document405-6 Filed04/06/12”
      “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/court-filed-documents/pdfs/20120406-405-Patterson-Dec-ISO-MTC-6-Ex-F.pdf”

      7/25/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Ken Greenberg subject: Discussion regarding how to respond to FOIA request for MKULTRA data

      7/25/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Craig B. Luigart subject: discussion re how to respond to FOIA request from Veterans for Common Sense

      7/25/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Ken Greenberg subject: discussion re how to respond to FOIA request from Veterans for Common Sense and VA/CIA correspondence related thereto

      7/24/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Timothy Graham subject: discussion regarding how to respond to FOIA request from MKULTRA, Bluebird and Artichoke records

      7/24/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Timothy Graham subject: discussion regarding how to respond to FOIA request from MKULTRA, Bluebird and Artichoke studies conducted by CIA

      7/24/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Craig B. Luigart subject: discussion regarding how to respond to FOIA request from MKULTRA, Bluebird and Artichoke studies conducted by CIA

  2. I would err on caution and extend those years into the early 80’s and add HIV and all the hepatitis variants as well. The USAF gave me a boatload of shit when I went under for an appendectomy and it was the Red Cross Blood Drive on base 6 months after operation and being deathly sick all 30 days of conv. leave, and strangely, the USAF never found a thing….until the Red Cross Blood Drive said…WAIT A MINUTE…and sent me certified/registered letter on-base of what was detected in my blood and that it was likely from my blood transfusion from operation.
    No coincidences. Also, the VA did not even contest my claim…it was almost like they were waiting all those years for the viruses to do their work on me and to call home.

    Fucking Rat Bastards! Every day is a hellion of a health day. Thanks, Uncle Slam.

    • I do agree with you and would extend it into the present. As in the research is still being done.

      When I was 14 and in the foster care system after I caused an event. A large group of suits flew in on two tandem rotor Helicopters to interview me and study the event. They offered to emancipate me if I would volunteer for a research program. Several of the institutes I was required to attend as part of the research are still open and from their websites are still using human subjects in their research.

      So I am sure it is still ongoing.

      • Here’s an outlay from legal perspective of The Feres Doctrine: It basically states we Veterans have less rights than regular citizens that WE Served to Protect. Rat Bastards!

        “http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Feres+Doctrine”

      • My SF-95 Tort claim is good under the “Brown” ruling as stated in your reference, Nam. As are most malpractice by the VA. In addition a veteran does not have to demonstrate “fault” or “negligence” under 38 CFR 3.154.

        With fault or deception that I have given the VA can be pushed into a 3.154 settlement.

        And I believe the “deception” quote can be used to break the Feres Doctrine for those who did not volunteer in writing to be human subjects. That also applies, I believe, to VA medical research.

        Those are the issues in my SF-95 tort claim against the VA and the Navy. We’ll see. So far the General Counsel at the VA hasn’t brought up the Feres Doctrine.

  3. I’ve got a sneaky suspicion, there’s only one reason the “9th circuit” capitulated to this. It’s because “…no monetary compensations are being asked for…” by the plaintiffs!
    All the “tens of thousands of veterans” truly want is “justice” for what the military, (U.S. Army and Veterans Administration), put them through!
    And, Now, we’re stuck with – “cover-up artist”, Thomas Bowman! Something tells me there’s going to be more bullshit coming our way in the near future! In my opinion, “FOIA Requests” are going to get harder to obtain!

    As namnibor has so eloquently put it;
    “Rat Bastards!”

    • You might be right Elf.

      If you go to the link that Ben provided at the bottom of the article and watch the Video. It shows the Senator form the district covered by the 9th circuit surrounded by a bunch of American Legion with their party hats on.

      The Senator even says that they had invited Vietnam Veterans of America to attend but they chose not to send a representative. With the American Legion involved with the Senator I don’t trust anything that they are doing. Especially since the Senator is only calling for info on two of the smaller instances of tests using Veterans.

      VVA has been fighting for all Veterans. It seems like the Senator and the American legion are trying to do an end run around the court ruling by only calling for the two instances. Instead of calling for the VA and DoD to follow the ruling.

      • From the article.

        The only records that Rep. Mike Thompson (D-CA) and the boys with the party hats are calling for are from the tests, known as Project 112 and SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense) involved some 6,000 military personnel between 1962 and 1974.

        Thing is that information has already been prepared and released about Project 112 and SHAD.

        See: “Project 112/SHAD” at: “https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Environmental-Exposures/Project-112-SHAD”

        And see also: “About Project 112 and Project SHAD”
        at VA dot Gov:”https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/shad/basics.asp”

        So the Congressman and the Mad Hatters are doing nothing but blowing cover smoke to hide the target.

  4. QuestIon to anyone:
    I joined the Navy in September 1975. I was onboard two “active naval ships” between 1975 and 1978. They were the: USS Raliegh LPD-1, (decommissioned in the 80’s or 90’s), & the USS Sperry AS-12, (also decommissioned around the same time!)!
    Two things here –
    1.) These “chemical agents” don’t just “go away!” They sometimes linger for decades, and sometimes never go away!
    2.) Were these ships part of these “experiments”?

    How come there’s no “list of the ships being used in all of these experiments?” IF there is a “list”, how would anyone find it? Lastly, there’s no way these ships, being used for “experimental purposes”, can truly be “cleaned” of all or any part of the “toxic chemicals used by the DOD and VA”!

    I do believe I’ve raised another important issue the government doesn’t want to give answers for!

    • Crazy, I was on the USS Sperry AS-12 from June of 1962 to July of 1965 as a Hospital Corpsman. (HN and HM3) I wasn’t aware of any experimentation other than nuclear drills for nuclear accidents or leaks. As far as I know the radiation used was very low level and did not raise flags on our radiation badges which were developed by our Xray tech and read by the Flotilla Medical Officer and the Radiologist at San Diego Naval Hospital. (could be off a little on dates. would have to dig out my chronology of service page.)

      • @Lem,
        I was onboard “her” for a little over two years, between 1976-78!
        My NEC was torpedoman, (subroc)! There was an “incident” in 1977 in where a “warhead was dropped” and our “film badges” turned colors. When they were sent to Texas for analysis they were never seen again.
        There’s is a blank time frame in our records verifying this.
        Your lucky to have been on her long before that “incident”!

      • elf…I found this but it must sit in the directors filing cabinet, Because every time I ask them the reply is, never heard about it,…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………. As information becomes available, it is provided to the VA in the form of fact sheets. To
        date we have published 45 fact sheets on 41 tests which involved more than 5,000
        servicemembers. The fact sheets detail which ships and units were involved in tests, when the
        tests took place and what substances the crew may have been exposed to. In order to expedite
        2
        the VA’s notification to affected veterans, we now provide names and service numbers of
        servicemembers involved in each test to the VA as soon as we identify the ship or unit involved;
        we do not wait for the declassification process to be completed. To date, we have provided the
        VA with the names of 4,990 veterans from 16 of 18 known shipboard tests and are searching for
        classified reports which identify the ships used in the remaining two tests.

      • @Lem,
        Another thing about that “incident” and the “disappearance of our film badges” was, when we asked about them, we were NEVER given an answer! Myself, and the other 4 subroc techs, kept asking a “ltjg Glow” to find them and report back! He NEVER would comply.
        When we brought JAG into it, we were all transferred to – wait for it – Hawaii. We ALL got transferred to “NAVMAGLualualei/West Lock Branch/Sub Base”!
        I believe it was to shut us up by giving us a great “Shore Duty”!
        Well, we didn’t “shut up” and continued asking for the results of our “missing badges!”
        Two techs actually received “special orders”, from our “detailer”, AND an increase in their rate!
        How’s that for some bullshit! The rest of us got transferred to “shit details” until our “sea duty” kicked back in!
        And, you know what pissed us off the most? We were the only subroc techs who NEVER received any “gigs” on our “NTPI’s” or “NWAI’s” ever!
        How’s that for gratitude from our benevolent Navy!

      • Oldmarine, VA fact sheets are nothing more than vague, bullshit talking points used by the VA to keep their story straight, and to make it look like they are doing something.

        Nothing changes in them until they are absolutely forced to.

  5. I underwent high security protocol training while a young Marine training for MSG at Quantico, Virginia. The question regarding this information is answered by the guidlines that DoD is bound by concerning national security. What I mean by this is that DoD is not authorized to release information that is deemed classified. Defense Department information that is still relevent today and if known by our enemies could cause exceptionally grave harm to our national security is considered top secret as far as I can remember from training.

    The “Top Secret” classification can generally ONLY be undone when the information becomes irrelevent. Once the U-2 spy plane had been seen, captured, photographed, and could be drawn from memory by most second grade Russian kids, did The Pentagon even acknowledge its existance.

    I cannot fathom the human who made the decision to do these things to others. It sickens me. However, if any of the information that was gained from their unwilling sacrifice could empower our enemies to do harm to us, then however ill-gotten the information was it could not be released. Even releasing names would be a tough thing to overcome if DoD was to comply with rules regarding national security.

    As a young Marine I was required to go into a gas chamber every single fucking year, which they filled with CS gas (tear gas from Hell). At that point you are ordered to remove your gas mask. Then, just try to hold your breath lolz! You are ordered to do jumping jacks in the gas chamber without a gas mask on until every exposed facial sweat gland, mucous membrane, tear and snot covered part of your face is on fire, then you are told to don your mask and clear it. There is GOBS of snot involved. In those moments I too felt pretty fucking experimented on. The entire process culminates with but a single thought in a young Marines head, and it is in this moment that his entire focus is on the exit door. I think they were doing mind focusing experiements… My complaint is that they didn’t even classify it as anything important enough to do to keep secret! Shit.

    • Dennis I see you had a lot to say but my belief as a Veteran myself your beliefs how to improve Disabled Veterans who is collected 100 percent service connected and tell to your Senators and Representative I am full blood Jar Head.

  6. Not just human subject experiments that were using substances and diseases known to be harmful to humans and were deliberately exposed, but also bogus disease and injury experiments with pre determined outcomes that were specifically intended to reduce disability entitlements.

    Two items below:

    MISREPRESENTATION OF FACT:
    .
    With respect to organic brain syndromes by the U S Government’s Military and Department of Veteran’s Affairs Mr. Bray cites the orchestrated Yale Medical School study that found on behalf of the DVA’s “cutting edge theory” that EEG sharp waves were more representative of “psychogenic seizures” than partial and complex partial seizures. The DVA is alleged to have demanded a pre-determined outcome of the study in return for the use of DVA telemetry units for the Yale Medical School studies on both civilian and veteran subjects, denying beds to veterans in the telemetry units for the purpose they were installed at DVA Medical and Research facilities in favor of the Yale Medical School non-veteran surgical research subjects of status epileptic seizures including Parkinson’s Disease.

    The Yale Study conclusions have now been debunked by a study of Oxford Medical School. The denial of partial and complex partial temporal lobe seizures as indicated by “sharp wave” tracings on EEGs served no purpose other than denial of compensation to veterans while denying all victims of deep based temporal lobe seizures needed medication and other therapy to mediate their condition. Non-veterans have been equally damaged by the deliberately false outcome of the Yale study and will continue to be so damaged so long as there is a Neurology Text Book stating that “sharp waves” on temporal lobe EEG tracings are an indication of “psychogenic seizures.”

    “http://epilepsy.yale.edu/about/history/1980.aspx”

    “https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2995886/”

    Additional evidence of “Misrepresentation of Fact” about organic brain syndromes by the U S Military and the Department of Veterans’ Affairs is shown by what appears to be an obvious attempt by the authors of the research paper: PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING OF CEREBRAL MALARIA PATIENTS, “The Journal of Nervous and Mental Disease,” vol. 147, #6, 1968 by Kastl, A.J.; Daroff, R.B.; and Blocker, W.W.: to attempt to flag their report for failure of a peer review. If fails in 4 specifics the most basic of which is the “control group.” And it appears to have been produced under some sort of duress for a predetermined outcome causing the authors to write in a form designed to get by local review and to fail peer review giving some basic items that are counter the conclusions in the lead up to the conclusions expecting the failures to appear after they had been released from the service. The research paper was used by John Boos, MD, Department of Veterans Affairs National Director of Neurology at the VA Connecticut Healthcare System in West Haven, CT, in his testimony before the Subcommittee on Benefits, House Committee on Veterans Affairs, on July 16, 1998, a person of intellect and credentials that clearly should also have recognized the failings of the “peer reviewed” report.

    PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING OF CEREBRAL MALARIA PATIENTS, has clearly and irrefutably, through physiology, been debunked by the National Institute of Health (NIH) study published online December 6, 2016.

    See also the debunking study: “https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/raising-curtain-cerebral-malarias-deadly-agents”

    We note there is a pattern of lobbyist interfering with veterans getting their medical and compensation benefits to benefit their clients:

    ”http://www.disabledveterans.org/2016/05/17/phoenix-va-chief-gets-probation-no-penalty-dead-veterans/”

    This caused the Phoenix and Cheyenne VA crisis. Note it seems unlikely that the Cheyenne VA Director would have cooperated in the Health Net move to get “Choice” authorized without getting some laundered “quid” for her “pro quo”. Perhaps one of the Health Net executives receiving more than $1.5 million in annual compensation (Over $25 million for the top 5 executives compensation) after spinning Health Net off from a non-profit organization to a for profit organization in 1992 granting The California Wellness Foundation 80% ownership. This huge contract smells. Two national providers for the VA Choice Program. Where is the competition.

    TITLE 28, U.S.C.
    §2401. Time for commencing action against United States
    (a) Except as provided by chapter 71 of title 41, every civil action commenced against the United
    States shall be barred unless the complaint is filed within six years after the right of action first
    accrues. The action of any person under legal disability or beyond the seas at the time the claim
    accrues may be commenced within three years after the disability ceases.

    TITLE 41, Section §7101
    (9) MISREPRESENTATION OF FACT. The term “misrepresentation of fact” means a false
    statement of substantive fact, or conduct that leads to a belief of a substantive fact material to proper understanding of the matter in hand, made with intent to deceive or mislead.

    • Good ol VA. Masters at feigning ignorance and incompetence and at knowingly creating and using flawed “research” to intentional screw veterans.

      If this were an honest mistake, like so many “mistakes” made by the VA over many years, the law of averages would suggest it would occasionally be in the favor of veterans.

      That they are not shows it is intentional.

      PS. Ben, I don’t think the subscription to thread thingy is working.

  7. MILITARY EXPOSURES: THE CONTINUING
    CHALLENGES OF CARE AND COMPENSATION
    WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 2002
    U.S. S ENATE ,
    V ETERANS ’ A FFAIRS ,

    Washington, DC.Senator W ELLSTONE . You are right. Both. How about both? Both
    of them, both Nelsons, Senator Nelson from Florida, but I also was
    listening to the comments of my colleague from Nebraska, and I
    agree.
    The only thing I want to say besides the statement that is in the
    record—and Jay and I have, I think, talked about this as well—
    this is—we have this kind of awful record. I mean, I remember the
    work with Atomic veterans, and this just reminds me of Atomic
    veterans, Gulf veterans, Agent Orange, and it is this awful record
    of excessive secrecy and sort of people, you know, veterans and
    their families feeling like the Government is not being honest with
    them,[ NO SHIT ] they are put in harm’s way, and, you know, they keep asking
    for some recognition of what has happened. They keep asking for
    some compensation. They keep asking for treatment, and over and
    over again they come up against this wall
    There sure is plenty to read

    • “Help us”? Your not even a Veteran.

      Why don’t you go back to your job processing those J1 and J2 visa aps or your work on converting them in permanent residents?

      • He’s probably also processing the “H1B” visas so foreign nationals can take even more jobs away from Americans, whether they be veterans or not. Like what has been reported down here in Florida at Disney World in the past few years!

  8. *Does this include the exposure I received inside a small building while I was training to become an mos 5711 NBC Warfare Specialist?? I was exposed to Tear gas in a totally enclosed building. We were also exposed to diluted Blister/Mustard Gas,in Fort McClelland,in Anniston Alabama.*

    • Pete you may want to go to “https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Environmental-Exposures/Chemical-and-Biological-Exposures”.

      After reading the page go to the Frequently Asked Questions. They do provide information on finding out.

      • But sadly lacking are the questions and answers for the majority of the testing done. Which was through Ft. Detrick.

      • Also Pete Perez,

        You should review the following link it does state that Mustard Gas research was ongoing at Fort McClelland,in Anniston Alabama.

        Summary of the Department of the Army Report
        by James R. Taylor and William Johnson
        USE OF VOLUNTEERS IN CHEMICAL AGENT RESEARCH (1975)
        “https://www.nap.edu/read/2058/chapter/21”

        Excerpt from the report:

        “Formalized guidelines were finally issued in June 1953 in a Chief of Staff Memo (MM 385). These guidelines represented an official adoption of the Nuremberg Codes (although somewhat modified) and were meant to apply to all types of chemical, radiological, and biological warfare testing. Further, they required all projects to be approved by the Secretary of the Army. However, no detailed descriptions of what types of experiments required this approval were included, and the report authors argue later that this was a “loophole” that permitted “selective compliance” with the guidelines.

        For example, in August 1953 seven research projects were sent for approval, one on vesicants and other agents, one on phosgene, and five on nerve agents. Not sent for approval was a research project labelled a ”local field exercise” at Fort McClellan, Alabama (Operation TOP HAT). This operation involved use of Chemical Corps personnel in tests of decontamination methods for biological warfare agents, sulfur mustard, and nerve gases. These personnel were not informed and were not volunteers. The justification for the lack of a request for approval was that the project fell under the “line of duty” definition and was not subject to protocol approval.

    • Pet Perez

      Several articles that may interest you on the subject.

      “World War II Secret Mustard Gas Testing”
      WWII Veteran, Who Fought To Expose Secret Mustard Gas Experiments, Dies
      May 30, 2016
      “http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/30/479975975/wwii-veteran-who-fought-to-expose-secret-mustard-gas-experiments-dies”

      “The VA’s Broken Promise To Thousands Of Vets Exposed To Mustard Gas”
      June 23, 2015
      “http://www.npr.org/2015/06/23/416408655/the-vas-broken-promise-to-thousands-of-vets-exposed-to-mustard-gas”

      “In secret chemical weapons experiments conducted during World War II, the U.S. military exposed thousands of American troops to mustard gas.

      When those experiments were formally declassified in the 1990s, the Department of Veterans Affairs made two promises: to locate about 4,000 men who were used in the most extreme tests, and to compensate those who had permanent injuries.

      Charlie Cavell at his home in Virginia. He is one of 60,000 World War II veterans exposed to mustard gas as part of secret experiments by the U.S. military.

      Ariel Zambelich/NPR

      But the VA didn’t uphold those promises, an NPR investigation has found.

      NPR interviewed more than 40 living test subjects and family members, and they describe an unending cycle of appeals and denials as they struggled to get government benefits for mustard gas exposure. Some gave up out of frustration.

      In more than 20 years, the VA attempted to reach just 610 of the men, with a single letter sent in the mail. Brad Flohr, a VA senior adviser for benefits, says the agency couldn’t find the rest, because military records of the experiments were incomplete.

      “There was no identifying information,” he says. “No Social Security numbers, no addresses, no … way of identifying them. Although, we tried.”

      Yet in just two months, an NPR research librarian located more than 1,200 of them, using the VA’s own list of test subjects and public records.”

      Full article at link above

      Also

      “How NPR Located More Veterans Exposed To Mustard Gas Than The VA”
      June 26, 2015

      “http://www.npr.org/2015/06/26/417513593/how-npr-located-more-veterans-exposed-to-mustard-gas-than-the-va”

      Lastly there is a free book on the subject published by the National Academy of Science Institute of Medicine Titled “Veterans at Risk: The Health Effects of Mustard Gas and Lewisite” available at: “https://www.nap.edu/catalog/2058/veterans-at-risk-the-health-effects-of-mustard-gas-and”

      On the right hand side of the screen you can click on the free download button or you can buy the book for $112.

  9. Every report that says UNCLASSIFIED on the “Project 112/SHAD Fact Sheets” so far is blacked out,
    It’s no wonder no one knows anything…..JUST SMOKE AND MIRRORS

  10. Project 112/SHAD are cannon fodder to take pressure off 0f the DOD,CIA etc.,there have been numerous government documents to tie Ft Detrick Md(Fort Death),Dungway Proving Grounds,267th Chemical Warfare Div.,and shipments from Deseret Depot through Oakland Ca Naval shipyards. I think now there have been some excuses made for the reasons of “Plausible Deniability” by our DOD,CIA etc.and a crumb thrown out so to speak,however,due to mitigating circumstances one finds out that the Ret.Col put in charge for a congressional investigation has family ties to DOD munitions R&D contracts,how convenient,that his conclusion were that no chemical or biological weapons were used or stored on Okinawa,when in fact a scientist from Ft Detrick has submitted his research papers showing 3 places of time and spraying of defoliants. I am currently working with Congressman Mac Thornberry’s office out of Wichita Falls tx. on some issues concerning the VAMC in Lancaster Tx. now that this has came to the surface I may as well add this to the fire(as I have extensive research)because it has began to smolder again. it will take the proper people with a high profile and media coverage to mount an offensive !!! When our forefathers fought oppression and they were few,however,they would not be denied,neither should we. I am an American Veteran and proud of Old Glory and want to see it raised again,to it’s highest standards,just as it was raised on Iwo Jima to show that we will not be held back !!!

  11. 2000? That might be when someone in the VA or DOD finally started responding, but I was getting emails from a few of these vets in the mid to late 1990s asking about Project 112 and SHAD. If I was getting emails, you can bet your ass the Legion and other worthless VSOs were aware, as was the VA, the Pentagon and Congress.

    They were reporting similar symptoms as Gulf War vets, which would make sense if Sarin and VX were used.

    Rather than study this to the death of vets, trying to ignore the obvious, they could easily compare the medical records from those involved in SHAD, Gulf War vets, and current vets from Iraq who were known to have been exposed to VX or Sarin. They would easily find similarities between each group with diseases caused, or symptoms reported but undiagnosed by the VA.

    The NY Times did a flagrant act of journalism last year on several hundred Iraq vets exposed to shells used as IEDS by the enemy, and the symptoms described would make you think they served in the first Gulf War.

    Rather than do that, the VA will keep their tunnel vision glasses on while the research money keeps flowing. The Pentagon, and those who ordered these tests and the cover-up, like some Nazis, are likely still around. That means the Pentagon will do all it can to ignore this, and their responsibility.
    Hiding behind classified data this many years later is bullshit, since anything found such as weaknesses has long since been addressed. Its just an easy way of avoiding responsibility.

    If anything results, it will be the VA calling for a SHAD vets registry, like the AO registry and Gulf War registry. Bullshit exams where any data collected will be ignored, but will pay for lots of hack doctors. It will give the VA and congress reasons to ignore these vets a few years longer.

    Maybe 10 years from now the SHAD vets might get congress to act. Or not.

    But hey! At least the worthless fucks in the American Legion are getting some headlines!

  12. There’s little doubt that similar atrocities still go on today. DOD still has contracts with chemical companies today. Why? I can’t help but believe we Veterans have been and are now and will always be guinea pigs. I hope something good comes of this. I just don’t see it happening. God Bless the Veterans.

    • It was late 1990s, early 2000s when it was discovered that DOD conducted many medical tests overseas because the vaccines they were testing were not approved by the FDA.

      Testing overseas would provide lots of data that could be used for a human trials proposal over here.

      • Several of the Vaccine Trials that were done over here do come to mind. The first testing of the Swine Flu Vaccine in Dec of 1976. Where military personnel received the experimental vaccine even though there were no reported cases of swine flu.

        It is interesting to note that 1918 Flu Pandemic where more than 12,000 Americans perished during the H1N1 (or “swine flu”) Pandemic. The flu mostly infected military aged adult males. Following the end of WWI. It had little affect on women, children or older adults who were not of military age.

        Then there is the Anthrax Vaccine program.

  13. Hey Elf,

    You asked a number of important questions in one of your post above. The following information should help a little as far as the official version of things.

    To help answer your questions go to the following link and go down the page to the Frequently Asked Questions. When you click on the link it tells you what you need to do to find out if you were involved in the research.

    One thing you will note on this page is that although they do have a section for reporting on Human Subject Research at Fort Detrick. The Frequently Asked Questions and Answers are incomplete.

    The link: “Chemical and Biological Exposures ”
    “The Department of Defense (DoD) and the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) play distinct roles in dealing with chemical and biological (CB) exposures.
    •The DoD identifies and validates veteran’s exposure to CB agents and provides the names of these individuals along with their exposure information to the VA.
    •The VA then notifies individuals of their potential exposure, provides treatment, if necessary, for these individuals and adjudicates any claim for compensation.

    The information is designed to provide Service members, veterans, their families and the public with information on what happened during CB testing conducted years ago that potentially affected the health of those who served. This site provides information on the tests conducted by DoD that possibly resulted in CB exposures only. For privacy reasons, it does not contain the names of the veterans exposed.

    Since the end of World War II, DoD periodically evaluated the CB threat and the ability of U.S. forces to fight on a chemical and biological battlefield. In some programs Service members were present but not test subjects and in other programs they were volunteer human subjects. Testing of biological agents on human subjects ended in 1969; testing of chemical agents on human subjects ended in 1975. DoD is investigating these exposures that occurred as far back as 30 to 60 years ago.

    All the names discovered by DoD reside in three databases:
    •World War II database
    •Project 112/SHAD database
    •Cold War database

    DoD shares these databases with the VA.”

    “https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Environmental-Exposures/Chemical-and-Biological-Exposures”

    • I believe that the page was set up to comply with the court order in the case I spoke of in the beginning of the comments section. The case Vietnam Veterans of America, et al. v. CIA, et al.

  14. WTF Over!
    Google the following:

    “Sarin gas goes missing from Army proving ground”

    The articles and videos are from two days ago!
    What’s to say this “gas” won’t be used against American Citizens? How the fuck does the Army “lose” a “deadly chemical weapon?”

    We ain’t Russia, where they “lost” a few “suitcase nuclear bombs” years/decades ago! Remember that bullshit?

    • “http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-10/sarin-unaccounted-us-armys-dugway-proving-ground”

      Why am I not surprised the DOD has some grab-ass contractor involved in this?

      A few military personnel will be held accountable for not following protocol, but the contractor donating to congressmen will continue without fault.

      Hell, problems at Dugway and Tooele date back to the 1960s when an accidental release of nerve agent killed thousands of sheep.

      • The DOD probably utilized a contractor to personally handle the sarin gas canisters at a huge discount through a temp labor service that deals exclusively with people with uncontrollable shaking in their limbs…you know, safety first!! 🙂

  15. Breaking News on WFTV, channel 9, Orlando, Florida @ 5:30 pm set!

    Have y’all seen the “massive drug bust” by the DOJ over the past day or so?
    $1.3 BILLION worth of fraud against America. It included those on “tri-care” as well! Approximately $400 million worth here in Florida, according to Ch.9 news!

    I wonder how many veterans are involved in this? All because they were cut off of everything to do with pain meds?

  16. One now has to wonder what the VA is using Thomas Bowman for? Would it be to cover-up water contamination at military bases or…did some VA and DoD bean counters and RAND CORP. make some assessment that Gulf War Veterans were about to flood the gates again or…?

    Thomas Bowman seems to be the DoD and Pentagon’s “CLEANER” to prevent Veterans and the like, from receiving just care and recognition of the errors and malfeasant ways of “Desired and Undesired Outcomes”.

    Is the Tale of Two Thomas’s (Thomas Bowman and BVA Thomas Agent Orange Denier Murphy) just a coincidence or a master plan?

    Inquiring minds, (Veterans and Taxpayers) want to know.

    Rat Bastards!

    • namnibor
      Thomas Bowman “hides” shit the agency he works for doesn’t want “found!”
      Thomas Murphy “denies” shit for the agency he works for, so few can be “approved!”

      IF you notice, each person described does the exact opposite of what an agency is required by law to do right! Thereby making them “financially indispensable for/to the agency they work for!” As in the case of the Veterans Administration, which is run like an “insurance corporation and/or a ‘single payer’ healthcare corporation!”

      You have anything to add?

      • Yes- They are both spitting images of “Doubting Thomas’s”. There’s a warm deck seat in hell for both of them. 🙂

        I see this as the VA doing as Benjamin alluded to; “Bolting down the deckchairs on the V.A. Titanic”, and for all we know, the Pentagon and DoD and VA may ALREADY know of current wars and battles in Middle East where weapons of mass destruction of the NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) depots may have exposed current troops or even experimented with brand new nasties on our brothers and sisters.

        Who KNOWS? I only know that I do not trust Shulkin nor his emboldened deckchair lineup on V.A. Titanic…rat bastards!

  17. How in hell has anything Shithead has done, the hiring of Bullshit Bowman, reflect the promise made to Veterans? Can I use Choice, (if and when it works ) without a VA PCP? At this point, nothing they do surprises me. It angers me greatly.

  18. My therapist wants me to take some assessment test to see what my aptitude is for voc rehab. I feel like I’m apart of a human experiment. Is this even apart of a therapist job at the VA ? I’m wondering if this guy is just trying to get my PTSD rating lowered by having the VA see I can do test?

    • @lily: Lily, I honestly can’t tell you what the underlying motive is, but, from personal experience, the last time I trusted the VA, they used that trust against me. Never again.

      I have stated before, every time the VA is faced with either the right choice, or the wrong choice, they will undoubtedly take the wrong choice. Even if your therapist is on the level, the VA sure as hell isn’t.

      Food for thought.

      • Thanks, I’m really considering dropping out of VA therapy. I went in after 15 years and found out it’s so pathetic. I know way more than they do about coping with my symptoms. I think I’m just going to see a private psychiatrist a few times a year to cover my ass. I found out I have a gene that makes me 7x less likely to respond to antidepressants. That’s why the VA medication never worked. I’m done being a human experiment for the VA.

      • @lily:Lily, that is a plan, don’t let them off the hook for your care ever, always make your 6 month apt. I am with you and Crazy elf, I just don’t trust them, Seems they are always up to no good. Let us know if they say, or do anything negative, because of whatever decision you have made.

  19. Well they finally named the Black Hole in Aurora and they are still hoping that it may be opening it’s door maybe sometime in 2018.

    “VA Medical Center Under Construction In Aurora Now Has A Name”
    July 13, 2017
    “http://denver.cbslocal.com/2017/07/13/rocky-mountain-regional-va-medical-center/”

    Personally I can think of a few names for the place but don’t think they would ever be approved. Also I could offer a few names of some of the VA’s finest spenders who should be memorialized in concrete to help support the place.

    • “Also I could offer a few names of some of the VA’s finest spenders who should be memorialized in concrete to help support the place”

      Concrete Shoe Statues will add yet another $250 Million to the Aurora Blackhole Project. Spared absolutely no expense. The VA Contractors are on the very best marijuana taxpayer $$$ can buy in Colorado. Cannot rush excellence in deathcare.

  20. I see that some of the “undercover” Veterans Choice, but not Veterans Choice, less accountable programs are getting more funding.

    In the less accountable undercover Veterans Choice program the VA builds offices around the state to do the Veteran Choice program administrators job without using the contractor such as Healthnet. That way the VA can cut out the middle man and keep all the money.

    The program has been ongoing since 2010 starting before Veterans Choice.

    “Udall Advances Key Funding for NM Military Bases, NM Veterans”
    Posted: Jul 13, 2017
    “http://www.myhighplains.com/news/udall-advances-key-funding-for-nm-military-bases-nm-veterans/765022206”

    “I am also proud to have advanced my initiative, an extension of the Rural Veterans Coordination Pilot Program, to enhance care for veterans living in rural New Mexico communities,” Udall continued. “Many veterans in rural New Mexico live hundreds of miles from the nearest VA hospital and, as a result, lack access to specialists, including mental health care providers. My measure strengthens programs to help ensure rural veterans get the care they are owed — increasing access to high quality medical and mental health care in rural areas, improving coordination, and empowering local communities to tailor services to best serve the needs of their veterans.”

    Udall’s bill extends the Rural Veterans Coordination Pilot (RVCP) Program through September 2019. The program, originally authorized in 2010, aids veterans in rural areas through increased health care and benefits coordination, increased availability of high quality medical and mental health services, and outreach to veterans and their families. New Mexico was selected as one of only five states to participate in the initial pilot program, receiving $2 million in funding. Thus far, the New Mexico Department of Veterans Services (NMDVS) has used these funds to create five field offices and five field coordinators covering all 33 counties in the state. Today’s action is a key step in the effort to provide continued federal funding for that state effort in future years.

    “This bill represents important progress to deliver on this nation’s promise to our veterans — addressing staffing shortfalls to better process disability claims, supporting research, combatting veteran homelessness, and improving care for rural veterans. But anything less than the best for our veterans is unacceptable, and we must continue to push for improvements to ensure veterans receive the care and benefits that they have earned,” Udall said.”

  21. “Vietnam-era vets exposed,overlooked and suffering”
    By Alesha Ray Published: July 13, 2017
    “http://wjbf.com/2017/07/13/vietnam-era-vets-exposedoverlooked-and-suffering/”

    “Working 4 You: Vietnam-Era Vets Exposed & Ignored?”
    By: MARCI MANLEY
    Posted: Jul 12, 2017

    “LITTLE ROCK, Ark. – A group of Vietnam era veterans, all suffering chronic diseases, believes exposure to herbicides during their service in Thailand in support of the war is killing them.
    “http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/working-4-you-vietnam-era-vets-exposed-ignored/763895594″

    “Agent Orange Thailand Vets are often the ‘orphans’ of the Vietnam War, and often have the hardest path to proving exposure to Agent Orange,” writes attorney Chris Attig on his website.

    Bill Rhodes of Mena, Ark., counts himself among those orphans. He reached out to Working 4 You, claiming a change in the law needed to happen to help serve thousands of veterans across the United States suffering from illnesses they believe are linked to herbicide exposure while serving in Thailand.

    A Bit of History

    It is well-documented that Agent Orange, a mix of adapted commercial herbicides and one of among a set of “Rainbow Herbicides” developed for Vietnam War use, was widely sprayed in Vietnam for jungle growth control and crop destruction. In the demand for production, Agent Orange was known to have been contaminated with dioxin, which scientific studies have shown to be linked to a whole host of diseases.

    In fact, Veterans Affairs has acknowledged that there’s a connection between roughly a dozen diseases and exposure to the herbicide.

    Troops with the Air Force, Navy, Army and Marines also served at bases and military installations in Thailand in support of the war effort. Troops were stationed across Southeast Asia – with operations in Cambodia, Laos, Guam, Korea and Japan.”

  22. @Lily, perhaps he has a thing for you. And, I agree with everything you said. I am hearing that I have to see the VA PCP? Every six months? If that’s the way it is, shoot. Thanks for your post. @SeymoreKlearly, you have been busy. It’s obvious that they can’t let many, projects be known. With the wave President Trump is creating, all the revelations about our country, government, VA, and my Granddaughter went to Las Vegas with a modeling firm. This old ticker has been running an extra couple hours a day. As always, thank y’all for all y’all are doing. Aren’t chemical agents against all kinds of laws? Watch Putin sue us.

    • @Jo3n: Jon, I believe it is 2 years, If you go past 2 years without being seen, you lose your VA health scare benefit. Not sure if this is true or not. Even though I am seen privately for all of my sc issues, I will NEVER let them off the hook, that is just what they would like. Not a single f…ing Dr. at the VA knows what the f…k they are doing, Not a damn one. In the last 42 years, I can’t point to a single damn thing the VA has done to make my health “better” I can however, point to multiple times they just about ended my life.

      I know, I know, then why the hell do I go there at all? REVENGE!!! For all the condescending attitudes, the provided incompetence, the endless hoops to hop through, all the times they hung up the phone in mid sentence, and for the priceless looks on their sorry ass mugs, when they look up, see me, and say to themselves “Oh fuck, here comes that asshole again” Ahahahahahahaaaaaaaa yeah that’s the ticket!!!!!

      • I do not believe you *ever* lose your VA health scare benefit, regardless of time or only seeing outside private Dr.’s…what would happen in reality is when or if a service e connected & compensated Veteran decided to go back to the VA, you would just have to fill-out a new means test and such crap…we are not discarded from system nor prevented from using benefit because of using other healthcare. THAT’s what they would like to intimidate Veterans into believing.

      • @namnibor: Nam, thank you for clarifying this. I don’t remember exactly when, but maybe in 2010, I received a letter from the VA saying I am not eligible for VA benefits. I took the letter into the N. Chicago VAMC, and showed it to admin. The BITCH, I talked to said “yes, that is correct, your not eligible for benefits, now leave here and never come back” For the next 2 fucking years, I fought them, first using my useless as a pocket on the back of a T shirt, Congressmen, Randy Hultgren, and then the Veterans Assistance Commission. When I finally force fed the law down their throats, and called to get an appointment with my pcp, they then tried to tell me, that since I had not been seen in 2 years I no longer have VA health scare benefits, I responded with, ” no, you illegally denied medical scare for my service connected injuries for 2 years” I then instructed the nurse to call admin, and that I would be expecting a call back to schedule my appointment.

        Nothing, and I do mean NOTHING, has ever been the same since. I will check in for an appointment, and one USN peon will poke the other in the side and show their monitor to them, then I get a “take a seat sir, someone will be right with you”. N. Chicago is the only jointly run DOD/VAMC in the country. It is staffed by USN personnel, who only want to get the fuck out of there, and continue on with their day. Don’t blame them, what a boring ass forced assignment for them. More money for the AFGE, right? since the USN guys don’t get paid?

        Anyway, been going to the same facility for over 40 years, and now do not feel comfortable walking through the damn doors,, because I know when I do, the battle continues. One day, I will not only become a member of the famous “disruptive behavior list” but I will be lead out in handcuffs, for popping someones face inside out. This day is coming, they best leave this old bastard alone, I will not put up with their disrespectful BS for too much longer.

        Entire back, both knees, hearing loss, tinnitus, vision loss, and soon to be TBI, along with secondaries of elbows, wrists, and hands. all service connected. ………….not eligible my ass!!!!!

        As we speak, I have canceled all further appointments until they get my billing straightened out, they are currently running an audit back to 84′ to determine how much they owe me for billing for sc medical scare.
        Along with how much they owe my Medicare supplemental, for billing, and sometimes double billing, by using different names for the same facility, for service connection medical scare.

        I better stop, I don’t know where I am going with this, lost my train of thought again. Sorry.

      • Cj, the VA can provide a printout which shows a short summary of every appointment you had showing the primary reason, and showing how they coded it, whether they coded it service connected or not.

        These summaries are only about 8-10 lines each. They show the date of the appointment, who the provider was, what the primary reason for the appointment was, what code was given to the health condition, and whether they indicated it was service connected.

        I suggest you FOIA a printout for yourself covering whatever time period that covers the billing fraud.

        I did that for a 2 year period. When I got the printouts, I went through each one and noted which ones were service connected, but were not specified as service connected. Hell, one of them was for a follow-up ortho appontment that they properly showed as service connected, but they said the knee brace provided during the appointment was not service connected.

        The VA ultimately was forced to reimburse thousands of dollars that they fraudulently billed.

      • @91Veteran: That is the root of the entire problem right there, the coding, apparently when they did this crossover to a new computer system in 03′ my sc coding was dropped, so when they pull up my name, no sc is associated with it, I have copies of all sc award letters, and still this continues, I am still not listed as sc, Top all this off with anytime you try to cal your VARO, your routed to everywhere else in the country but your VARO. Getting anything done these days with the VA is a damn chore. What the hell do they expect from people with mental issues? How the fuck are we suppose to know EVERYTHING? I have said it time and again, I will get sc for TBI, they haven’t a leg to stand on, and “real” medical evidence trumps a ‘quacks, opinion” any day of the week.

      • Cj, I don’t know when they switched to their coding system, but the first time I ran into this BS was in 2014.

        The first excuse I got was because they consolidated their billing at some center in Kansas, and that a UMR nurse just made a mistake. I was told by the Kansas center they only reviewed high dollar claims, and then she lied about telling me that in an official response to other VA officials.
        I was then told it was my fault for not making sure the provider entered the right code. Eventually I was told it was the providers fault for not knowing the new system.

        Right after I started raising Hell about the problem, my VA made sure to post notices in all the clinics that they would bill third parties if your care was not service connected. They billed regardless.

        Also right after I noticed this fraud, I got a printout from them of all my service connected conditions. They have that in all our records. They just ignore them.

      • @91Veteran: Yes sir, they do have the sc information, and they do intentionally ignore it.

        The entire agency is a fraud. Senate and Congressional hearings are a farce, since they cannot legitimately say they were not aware of the massive corruption, that is entwined in this agency. Okay, I just realized how ignorant that last sentence is, considering we’re talking about DC. WTF?

        Later Gators
        Have a great day.

      • Cj, I didn’t go to the VA from around 2009 or 2010 until 2013 when I went to a different VA ER for a service connected condition. They had to provide care because it was service connected.

        3 years later and after lots of fraud, they called again and asked to schedule my yearly checkup. I told them I wasn’t going to, and told them why. After some discussion, I told them I would only schedule it if I were seen for service connected problems only. She said she had to check to see if that were possible, and that if not, the VA might drop all care.

        She said some bullshit about it being unethical if I were seeing a private PCP and the VA.

        I said the VA was required to provide care for service connected conditions, and if their Chief of Medicine or whoever the Hell she mentioned wanted to drop all care, I wanted them to put that in writing.

        I already knew the VA, by law, is required to provide any veteran care for a service connected condition at any time a veteran requests it. It does not matter if I have not been to the VA in 10 years, they are required to provide that veteran service connected care.

        About a month later, she called back and said they agreed to provide care for service connected conditions only.

        It was the best thing I ever did because it forced the VA to focus on those conditions, and not try push other bullshit treatment on me.

        When I went to that next PCP appointment, it was the first time in several years I had been asked about a couple service connected problems.

        In my opinion, if the VA can bill any third party such as insurance, medicare, medicaid, Tricare, my uncle Bob, etc., they will go for the easy money, and ignore a veterans more complex service connected medical problems.

      • Cj, I forgot to mention…the only effect of being out of the VA for more than 2 years is that you might have to re-enroll, which is what I was told when I asked what would happen if I dropped all VA care.

        I think that too is bullshit like I said in my other comment because I had been out for over 2 years, went to the VA ER at a completely different VA than the one I was assigned at the time, and they had to provide care.

        I never had to go through any re-enrollment BS.

      • @91Veteran: Correct on all points. I know the system well. It amazes me to the extent at what fools they think we all are, and how utterly incompetent they are. I was told no medical records exists, and that no record of any kind exists of me before 2003, this by the way, is when they had a major upgrade of some sort with there system. I simply walked to records management and asked for a copy of my records, and in no time I was provided with a disk containing all since 84′. The majority of this billing mess started when I started receiving ssdi, I would have an appointment, would get a bill for that appointment, then go to billing, and pay cash for that appointment, then they would deduct the same bill I just payed from my next ssdi check.

        Once I straightened that mess out, I had basically the same conversation you did about only being seen for sc conditions. This started an entirely new billing catastrophe, every time I have an appointment, and making sure that appointment is for sc issues only, I would notice the billing, and double billing on my supplementary insurance summaries. Tired of making the threats to sue if not corrected, I then went to the chief of staff, and demanded an audit, and also notified that until this audit is complete I am being denied care for sc injuries, due to the fact I will not accept any further appointments until I am guaranteed I will not be charged, nor my supplemental be charged, for receiving medical care for sc issues. The ball is currently in their court.
        Meanwhile, I have been getting proper treatment, from private sources, including for sc TBI, witch is currently under dispute.

        Apparently the VA in it’s infinite wisdom, seems to think the military has nothing better to do than to airlift personnel, to have metal slivers removed from their eyes, after an explosion, and has nothing to do with soldiers being found unconscious, next to a smoldering crater, in an enclosed concrete room. Yeppers they do this all the time, darn it! I remember one time I had a hemorrhoid, and they sent AF1, complete with whoopie cusion, cause that is the kind of military they ran back in the day……………………..nothing too good for a U.S serviceman….USA…… USA ……..USA……okay you get the point, now I am just being an asshole!!

  23. The Arla Harrell Act. “https://www.mccaskill.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/The%20Arla%20Harrell%20Act%20one%20pager.pdf”
    Harrell is one of est 60,000 exposed to mustard gas WW2 & could be the last living victim of the tests. In April 2016 VA determined just 40 soldiers had been compensated for their suffering. Sent to camp Crowder in Neosho MO for basic, where liquid chemical was rubbed on his skin & no mask was used in the gas chamber. During the experiments they were told if they didn’t comply or ever told anyone of the mustard gas experiments, they would be court martialed & sent to Ft Leavenworth.
    “http://www.modbee.com/news/politics-government/article80967242.html”

LEAVE A REPLY