Lawmakers Demand DOD Admit Full Impact Of Human Experiments

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Human Experimentation

In the 1960s and 1970s, the Pentagon conducted secret human experiments on military personnel using chemical and biological weapons.

Some 6,000 soldiers were experimented on in such programs known as Project 112 and SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense) between 1962 and 1974. The tests included the use of Sarin and Vx gas as well as E. Coli. to supposedly to evaluate ship and troop weaknesses to develop response plans.

Demanding Answers For Human Experiments

Congress and veterans groups are now demanding to know what happened – and who suffered – from the human experiments.

“It’s been over 50 years since these tests were conducted and the DOD has yet to provide a complete accounting of what truly happened to our service members,” Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA, said. “Veterans can’t wait any longer.”

Veterans say they need answers to get the proper medical care.

“This amendment would help veterans exposed to chemical and biological agents get the access to care and benefits they’ve earned through their service,” said John J. Gennace, assistant director of the American Legion’s national legislative division.

Background On What Was Admitted Already

According to McClatchyDC:

Information about the tests first surfaced in 2000. At the request of the Department of Veterans Affairs, the Pentagon released some limited data about the nature of the tests, including the locations and the agents used. Since then, the VA has sponsored studies by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine in 2007 and 2016 to look at the tests’ effects.

While they found no significant difference in the health of veterans involved in the tests and those who were not, the authors acknowledged the difficulty of studying this issue.

“Our task was challenging because of the passage of time since the tests, and because many of the documents related to the tests remain classified,” last year’s report said. “Our requests for declassification of additional documents were not approved.”

The Pentagon did not immediately respond to request for comment and neither did the VA spokesperson.

Was It A Crime?

Now, last I checked, secret experiments on humans was considered a war crime or a crime against humanity where some Nazis are still evading accountability.

So, how is it DOD, right under our noses, is allowed to keep secret the effects of the unlawful human experiments and the identities of those affected? Should those who ordered the experiments be prosecuted for their crimes?

War crime? Crime against humanity? Just a crime?

Source: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/mcclatchys-america/article160998169.html

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Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

A little background on why this is becoming an issue at this time.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Morrison & Foerster Files Suit Against CIA, DoD, and U.S. Army on Behalf of Troops Exposed to Testing of Chemical and Biological Weapons at Edgewood Arsenal and Other Top-Secret Sites PRESS CONFERENCE: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 10 a.m. PST “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20090107-Morrison-Files-Suit.pdf” Vietnam Veterans of America, et al. v. CIA, et al. Defendants include the CIA, the Department of the Army, the Department of Defense (“DoD”), and various government officials responsible for these agencies. The CIA secretly provided financing, personnel, and direction for the experiments, which were mainly conducted or contracted by the Army. Plaintiffs seek declaratory and injunctive relief only –… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Morrison & Foerster Secures Victory for Troops Exposed to Chemical and Biological Weapons Testing in Case Against the U.S. Government “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20100120-Morrison-Secures-Victory.pdf” SAN FRANCISCO (January 20, 2010) – Morrison & Foerster yesterday won the right to proceed with a case against the CIA, the Department of Defense, and the U.S. Army, filed on behalf of veterans rights organizations Vietnam Veterans of America and Swords to Plowshares, along with six veterans with multiple diseases and ailments, tied to a secret testing program in which U.S. military personnel were deliberately exposed to chemical and biological weapons and other toxins without informed consent. Plaintiffs… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Veterans File for Class Certification in Chemical, Biological Weapons Testing Case San Francisco, Calif. 2/9/12 “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20120209-Veterans-File-For-Class-Certification.pdf” The research programs at issue, concentrated at the Army’s facilities at the Edgewood Arsenal and Fort Detrick, Maryland, allegedly tested more than 400 different chemical and biological substances during five decades in locations throughout the U.S. and abroad, and involved an estimated 100,000 active duty military personnel. The substances tested ranged from drugs or chemicals such as LSD, mescaline, BZ, amphetamines, mustard gas, sarin, CS (riot control agent), and a THC analog called “red oil,” to biological substances such as anthrax, botulism, plague, tularemia,… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Morrison & Foerster Secures Injunction to Compel Army to Disclose Details and Health Effects of Chemical Experiments to Veterans SAN FRANCISCO (November 20, 2013) “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20131120-Edgewood-Press-Release.pdf” U.S. District Judge Claudia Wilken granted summary judgment that the Army has “an ongoing duty to warn members of the class about newly acquired information that may affect their well-being now and in the future as it becomes available,” and enjoined the Army to inform veterans about the nature, duration and possible health effects of the biological or chemical experiments. The Army is required to provide the court with a plan for notifying veterans about… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Morrison & Foerster Wins Ninth Circuit Victory for Class of Veterans That Participated in the Army’s Decades-Long Chemical Testing Program Appeals court panel confirms U.S. Army’s duty to inform affected veterans about their health and to treat them; MoFo has represented vets pro bono since case was filed in 2009 SAN FRANCISCO (July 1, 2015) “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20150701-MoFo-Wins-Ninth-Circuit-Victory-For-Veterans.pdf” The district court’s 2013 ruling concluded that the Army was obligated to treat veterans involved in the tests, but that an injunction was unnecessary in light of veterans’ access to medical care from the VA. The appellate panel vacated this portion of the lower… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
MORRISON & FOERSTER WINS ANOTHER NINTH CIRCUIT VICTORY FOR CLASS OF VETERANS THAT PARTICIPATED IN ARMY’S DECADES-LONG CHEMICAL TESTING PROGRAM Appeals court panel denies government’s petition for rehearing SAN FRANCISCO (January 27, 2016) “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/press-releases/pdfs/20160202-MoFo-Wins-Another-Ninth-Circuit-Victory-For-Veterans.pdf” In 2013, U.S. Senior District Judge Claudia Wilken concluded that the Army was obligated to treat veterans involved in the tests, but that an injunction was unnecessary in light of veterans’ access to medical care from the VA. The appellate panel vacated this portion of the lower court’s decision, writing, “we cannot agree that the Army’s duty to provide care is excused by the availability of… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Unfortunately the Newly appointed Deputy of the Veterans Administration Thomas Bowman has been involved with the cover up since the 1960s. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE REVIEW OF ALLEGATIONS CONCERNING “OPERATION TAILWIND” JULY 21, 1998 “http://www.dod.gov/pubs/tailwind.html” M2 PRESSWIRE-23 July 1998-U.S. DOD: DoD news briefing (C)1994-98 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD * Operation TAILWIND Colonel Tom Bowman, U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, also a Judge Advocate General Excerpt from briefing text: Colonel Bowman: When you have the opportunity to review in the reading room the volumes that relate to the service reports you will obviously come across the Joint Staff report. In that report there are… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Then while this case was being researched before the filing in 2009 Thomas Bowman was taking marching orders from the CIA on information releases connected to the case. “Case4:09-cv-00037-CW Document405-6 Filed04/06/12” “http://edgewoodtestvets.org/court-filed-documents/pdfs/20120406-405-Patterson-Dec-ISO-MTC-6-Ex-F.pdf” 7/25/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Ken Greenberg subject: Discussion regarding how to respond to FOIA request for MKULTRA data 7/25/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Craig B. Luigart subject: discussion re how to respond to FOIA request from Veterans for Common Sense 7/25/2008 Thomas G. Bowman received email from Ken Greenberg subject: discussion re how to respond to FOIA request from Veterans for Common Sense… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor
I would err on caution and extend those years into the early 80’s and add HIV and all the hepatitis variants as well. The USAF gave me a boatload of shit when I went under for an appendectomy and it was the Red Cross Blood Drive on base 6 months after operation and being deathly sick all 30 days of conv. leave, and strangely, the USAF never found a thing….until the Red Cross Blood Drive said…WAIT A MINUTE…and sent me certified/registered letter on-base of what was detected in my blood and that it was likely from my blood transfusion from… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
I do agree with you and would extend it into the present. As in the research is still being done. When I was 14 and in the foster care system after I caused an event. A large group of suits flew in on two tandem rotor Helicopters to interview me and study the event. They offered to emancipate me if I would volunteer for a research program. Several of the institutes I was required to attend as part of the research are still open and from their websites are still using human subjects in their research. So I am sure… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

That was back in the early 70s.

Terrance Peterson
Terrance Peterson

Of course, The Feres Doctrine!

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

The Feres Doctrine which made it cheaper to use Military person than it is to use Guinea pigs.

namnibor
namnibor

Here’s an outlay from legal perspective of The Feres Doctrine: It basically states we Veterans have less rights than regular citizens that WE Served to Protect. Rat Bastards!

“http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Feres+Doctrine”

Lem
Lem
My SF-95 Tort claim is good under the “Brown” ruling as stated in your reference, Nam. As are most malpractice by the VA. In addition a veteran does not have to demonstrate “fault” or “negligence” under 38 CFR 3.154. With fault or deception that I have given the VA can be pushed into a 3.154 settlement. And I believe the “deception” quote can be used to break the Feres Doctrine for those who did not volunteer in writing to be human subjects. That also applies, I believe, to VA medical research. Those are the issues in my SF-95 tort claim… Read more »
Crazy elf
Crazy elf

I’ve got a sneaky suspicion, there’s only one reason the “9th circuit” capitulated to this. It’s because “…no monetary compensations are being asked for…” by the plaintiffs!
All the “tens of thousands of veterans” truly want is “justice” for what the military, (U.S. Army and Veterans Administration), put them through!
And, Now, we’re stuck with – “cover-up artist”, Thomas Bowman! Something tells me there’s going to be more bullshit coming our way in the near future! In my opinion, “FOIA Requests” are going to get harder to obtain!

As namnibor has so eloquently put it;
“Rat Bastards!”

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
You might be right Elf. If you go to the link that Ben provided at the bottom of the article and watch the Video. It shows the Senator form the district covered by the 9th circuit surrounded by a bunch of American Legion with their party hats on. The Senator even says that they had invited Vietnam Veterans of America to attend but they chose not to send a representative. With the American Legion involved with the Senator I don’t trust anything that they are doing. Especially since the Senator is only calling for info on two of the smaller… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

They just LOVE their party hats!

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Sorry was wrong he is a Congressman not a Senator.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

From the article.

The only records that Rep. Mike Thompson (D-CA) and the boys with the party hats are calling for are from the tests, known as Project 112 and SHAD (Shipboard Hazard and Defense) involved some 6,000 military personnel between 1962 and 1974.

Thing is that information has already been prepared and released about Project 112 and SHAD.

See: “Project 112/SHAD” at: “https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Environmental-Exposures/Project-112-SHAD”

And see also: “About Project 112 and Project SHAD”
at VA dot Gov:”https://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/shad/basics.asp”

So the Congressman and the Mad Hatters are doing nothing but blowing cover smoke to hide the target.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf
QuestIon to anyone: I joined the Navy in September 1975. I was onboard two “active naval ships” between 1975 and 1978. They were the: USS Raliegh LPD-1, (decommissioned in the 80’s or 90’s), & the USS Sperry AS-12, (also decommissioned around the same time!)! Two things here – 1.) These “chemical agents” don’t just “go away!” They sometimes linger for decades, and sometimes never go away! 2.) Were these ships part of these “experiments”? How come there’s no “list of the ships being used in all of these experiments?” IF there is a “list”, how would anyone find it? Lastly,… Read more »
Lem
Lem
Crazy, I was on the USS Sperry AS-12 from June of 1962 to July of 1965 as a Hospital Corpsman. (HN and HM3) I wasn’t aware of any experimentation other than nuclear drills for nuclear accidents or leaks. As far as I know the radiation used was very low level and did not raise flags on our radiation badges which were developed by our Xray tech and read by the Flotilla Medical Officer and the Radiologist at San Diego Naval Hospital. (could be off a little on dates. would have to dig out my chronology of service page.)
Crazy elf
Crazy elf

@Lem,
I was onboard “her” for a little over two years, between 1976-78!
My NEC was torpedoman, (subroc)! There was an “incident” in 1977 in where a “warhead was dropped” and our “film badges” turned colors. When they were sent to Texas for analysis they were never seen again.
There’s is a blank time frame in our records verifying this.
Your lucky to have been on her long before that “incident”!

Lem
Lem

yes, fried brain, I am lucky. -) Mine is only scrambled.

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE
elf…I found this but it must sit in the directors filing cabinet, Because every time I ask them the reply is, never heard about it,…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………. As information becomes available, it is provided to the VA in the form of fact sheets. To date we have published 45 fact sheets on 41 tests which involved more than 5,000 servicemembers. The fact sheets detail which ships and units were involved in tests, when the tests took place and what substances the crew may have been exposed to. In order to expedite 2 the VA’s notification to affected veterans, we now provide names… Read more »
Crazy elf
Crazy elf
@Lem, Another thing about that “incident” and the “disappearance of our film badges” was, when we asked about them, we were NEVER given an answer! Myself, and the other 4 subroc techs, kept asking a “ltjg Glow” to find them and report back! He NEVER would comply. When we brought JAG into it, we were all transferred to – wait for it – Hawaii. We ALL got transferred to “NAVMAGLualualei/West Lock Branch/Sub Base”! I believe it was to shut us up by giving us a great “Shore Duty”! Well, we didn’t “shut up” and continued asking for the results of… Read more »
91Veteran
91Veteran

Oldmarine, VA fact sheets are nothing more than vague, bullshit talking points used by the VA to keep their story straight, and to make it look like they are doing something.

Nothing changes in them until they are absolutely forced to.

Dennis
Dennis
I underwent high security protocol training while a young Marine training for MSG at Quantico, Virginia. The question regarding this information is answered by the guidlines that DoD is bound by concerning national security. What I mean by this is that DoD is not authorized to release information that is deemed classified. Defense Department information that is still relevent today and if known by our enemies could cause exceptionally grave harm to our national security is considered top secret as far as I can remember from training. The “Top Secret” classification can generally ONLY be undone when the information becomes… Read more »
Leatherneck
Leatherneck

Dennis I see you had a lot to say but my belief as a Veteran myself your beliefs how to improve Disabled Veterans who is collected 100 percent service connected and tell to your Senators and Representative I am full blood Jar Head.

Lem
Lem
Not just human subject experiments that were using substances and diseases known to be harmful to humans and were deliberately exposed, but also bogus disease and injury experiments with pre determined outcomes that were specifically intended to reduce disability entitlements. Two items below: MISREPRESENTATION OF FACT: . With respect to organic brain syndromes by the U S Government’s Military and Department of Veteran’s Affairs Mr. Bray cites the orchestrated Yale Medical School study that found on behalf of the DVA’s “cutting edge theory” that EEG sharp waves were more representative of “psychogenic seizures” than partial and complex partial seizures. The… Read more »
91Veteran
91Veteran

Good ol VA. Masters at feigning ignorance and incompetence and at knowingly creating and using flawed “research” to intentional screw veterans.

If this were an honest mistake, like so many “mistakes” made by the VA over many years, the law of averages would suggest it would occasionally be in the favor of veterans.

That they are not shows it is intentional.

PS. Ben, I don’t think the subscription to thread thingy is working.

OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE
MILITARY EXPOSURES: THE CONTINUING CHALLENGES OF CARE AND COMPENSATION WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 2002 U.S. S ENATE , V ETERANS ’ A FFAIRS , Washington, DC.Senator W ELLSTONE . You are right. Both. How about both? Both of them, both Nelsons, Senator Nelson from Florida, but I also was listening to the comments of my colleague from Nebraska, and I agree. The only thing I want to say besides the statement that is in the record—and Jay and I have, I think, talked about this as well— this is—we have this kind of awful record. I mean, I remember the work… Read more »
namnibor
namnibor

I’m starting to think that the VA’s “CHOICE” is simply an outsourced means to their ‘final solution’, which is of course, worm-dirt.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

VA Health care is the final solution.

Roger Doyle Taylor, Esq.
Roger Doyle Taylor, Esq.

JESUS, help US… please…

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

“Help us”? Your not even a Veteran.

Why don’t you go back to your job processing those J1 and J2 visa aps or your work on converting them in permanent residents?

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

He’s probably also processing the “H1B” visas so foreign nationals can take even more jobs away from Americans, whether they be veterans or not. Like what has been reported down here in Florida at Disney World in the past few years!

Bill
Bill

And at the bottom of the end of the top secrect report it reads THANK YOU FPR YOUR SERVICE with a hardy salute!

Pete Perez
Pete Perez

*Does this include the exposure I received inside a small building while I was training to become an mos 5711 NBC Warfare Specialist?? I was exposed to Tear gas in a totally enclosed building. We were also exposed to diluted Blister/Mustard Gas,in Fort McClelland,in Anniston Alabama.*

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

Pete you may want to go to “https://health.mil/Military-Health-Topics/Health-Readiness/Environmental-Exposures/Chemical-and-Biological-Exposures”.

After reading the page go to the Frequently Asked Questions. They do provide information on finding out.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

But sadly lacking are the questions and answers for the majority of the testing done. Which was through Ft. Detrick.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Also Pete Perez, You should review the following link it does state that Mustard Gas research was ongoing at Fort McClelland,in Anniston Alabama. Summary of the Department of the Army Report by James R. Taylor and William Johnson USE OF VOLUNTEERS IN CHEMICAL AGENT RESEARCH (1975) “https://www.nap.edu/read/2058/chapter/21” Excerpt from the report: “Formalized guidelines were finally issued in June 1953 in a Chief of Staff Memo (MM 385). These guidelines represented an official adoption of the Nuremberg Codes (although somewhat modified) and were meant to apply to all types of chemical, radiological, and biological warfare testing. Further, they required all projects… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Pet Perez Several articles that may interest you on the subject. “World War II Secret Mustard Gas Testing” WWII Veteran, Who Fought To Expose Secret Mustard Gas Experiments, Dies May 30, 2016 “http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/30/479975975/wwii-veteran-who-fought-to-expose-secret-mustard-gas-experiments-dies” “The VA’s Broken Promise To Thousands Of Vets Exposed To Mustard Gas” June 23, 2015 “http://www.npr.org/2015/06/23/416408655/the-vas-broken-promise-to-thousands-of-vets-exposed-to-mustard-gas” “In secret chemical weapons experiments conducted during World War II, the U.S. military exposed thousands of American troops to mustard gas. When those experiments were formally declassified in the 1990s, the Department of Veterans Affairs made two promises: to locate about 4,000 men who were used in the most extreme tests,… Read more »
OLDMARINE
OLDMARINE

Every report that says UNCLASSIFIED on the “Project 112/SHAD Fact Sheets” so far is blacked out,
It’s no wonder no one knows anything…..JUST SMOKE AND MIRRORS

Chuck Morse
Chuck Morse
Project 112/SHAD are cannon fodder to take pressure off 0f the DOD,CIA etc.,there have been numerous government documents to tie Ft Detrick Md(Fort Death),Dungway Proving Grounds,267th Chemical Warfare Div.,and shipments from Deseret Depot through Oakland Ca Naval shipyards. I think now there have been some excuses made for the reasons of “Plausible Deniability” by our DOD,CIA etc.and a crumb thrown out so to speak,however,due to mitigating circumstances one finds out that the Ret.Col put in charge for a congressional investigation has family ties to DOD munitions R&D contracts,how convenient,that his conclusion were that no chemical or biological weapons were used… Read more »
91Veteran
91Veteran
2000? That might be when someone in the VA or DOD finally started responding, but I was getting emails from a few of these vets in the mid to late 1990s asking about Project 112 and SHAD. If I was getting emails, you can bet your ass the Legion and other worthless VSOs were aware, as was the VA, the Pentagon and Congress. They were reporting similar symptoms as Gulf War vets, which would make sense if Sarin and VX were used. Rather than study this to the death of vets, trying to ignore the obvious, they could easily compare… Read more »
Jo3n

There’s little doubt that similar atrocities still go on today. DOD still has contracts with chemical companies today. Why? I can’t help but believe we Veterans have been and are now and will always be guinea pigs. I hope something good comes of this. I just don’t see it happening. God Bless the Veterans.

91Veteran
91Veteran

It was late 1990s, early 2000s when it was discovered that DOD conducted many medical tests overseas because the vaccines they were testing were not approved by the FDA.

Testing overseas would provide lots of data that could be used for a human trials proposal over here.

Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Several of the Vaccine Trials that were done over here do come to mind. The first testing of the Swine Flu Vaccine in Dec of 1976. Where military personnel received the experimental vaccine even though there were no reported cases of swine flu. It is interesting to note that 1918 Flu Pandemic where more than 12,000 Americans perished during the H1N1 (or “swine flu”) Pandemic. The flu mostly infected military aged adult males. Following the end of WWI. It had little affect on women, children or older adults who were not of military age. Then there is the Anthrax Vaccine… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly
Hey Elf, You asked a number of important questions in one of your post above. The following information should help a little as far as the official version of things. To help answer your questions go to the following link and go down the page to the Frequently Asked Questions. When you click on the link it tells you what you need to do to find out if you were involved in the research. One thing you will note on this page is that although they do have a section for reporting on Human Subject Research at Fort Detrick. The… Read more »
Seymore Klearly
Seymore Klearly

I believe that the page was set up to comply with the court order in the case I spoke of in the beginning of the comments section. The case Vietnam Veterans of America, et al. v. CIA, et al.

91Veteran
91Veteran

Subscription emails working again. Thanks Ben.

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

WTF Over!
Google the following:

“Sarin gas goes missing from Army proving ground”

The articles and videos are from two days ago!
What’s to say this “gas” won’t be used against American Citizens? How the fuck does the Army “lose” a “deadly chemical weapon?”

We ain’t Russia, where they “lost” a few “suitcase nuclear bombs” years/decades ago! Remember that bullshit?

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

I’m going to go back and read and watch a few of the articles and videos! I suggest y’all do the same!

91Veteran
91Veteran

“http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-10/sarin-unaccounted-us-armys-dugway-proving-ground”

Why am I not surprised the DOD has some grab-ass contractor involved in this?

A few military personnel will be held accountable for not following protocol, but the contractor donating to congressmen will continue without fault.

Hell, problems at Dugway and Tooele date back to the 1960s when an accidental release of nerve agent killed thousands of sheep.

namnibor
namnibor

The DOD probably utilized a contractor to personally handle the sarin gas canisters at a huge discount through a temp labor service that deals exclusively with people with uncontrollable shaking in their limbs…you know, safety first!! 🙂

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

Breaking News on WFTV, channel 9, Orlando, Florida @ 5:30 pm set!

Have y’all seen the “massive drug bust” by the DOJ over the past day or so?
$1.3 BILLION worth of fraud against America. It included those on “tri-care” as well! Approximately $400 million worth here in Florida, according to Ch.9 news!

I wonder how many veterans are involved in this? All because they were cut off of everything to do with pain meds?

cj
cj

.

namnibor
namnibor
One now has to wonder what the VA is using Thomas Bowman for? Would it be to cover-up water contamination at military bases or…did some VA and DoD bean counters and RAND CORP. make some assessment that Gulf War Veterans were about to flood the gates again or…? Thomas Bowman seems to be the DoD and Pentagon’s “CLEANER” to prevent Veterans and the like, from receiving just care and recognition of the errors and malfeasant ways of “Desired and Undesired Outcomes”. Is the Tale of Two Thomas’s (Thomas Bowman and BVA Thomas Agent Orange Denier Murphy) just a coincidence or… Read more »
Crazy elf
Crazy elf

namnibor
Thomas Bowman “hides” shit the agency he works for doesn’t want “found!”
Thomas Murphy “denies” shit for the agency he works for, so few can be “approved!”

IF you notice, each person described does the exact opposite of what an agency is required by law to do right! Thereby making them “financially indispensable for/to the agency they work for!” As in the case of the Veterans Administration, which is run like an “insurance corporation and/or a ‘single payer’ healthcare corporation!”

You have anything to add?

namnibor
namnibor
Yes- They are both spitting images of “Doubting Thomas’s”. There’s a warm deck seat in hell for both of them. 🙂 I see this as the VA doing as Benjamin alluded to; “Bolting down the deckchairs on the V.A. Titanic”, and for all we know, the Pentagon and DoD and VA may ALREADY know of current wars and battles in Middle East where weapons of mass destruction of the NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) depots may have exposed current troops or even experimented with brand new nasties on our brothers and sisters. Who KNOWS? I only know that I do not… Read more »
Jo3n

How in hell has anything Shithead has done, the hiring of Bullshit Bowman, reflect the promise made to Veterans? Can I use Choice, (if and when it works ) without a VA PCP? At this point, nothing they do surprises me. It angers me greatly.

lily
lily

My therapist wants me to take some assessment test to see what my aptitude is for voc rehab. I feel like I’m apart of a human experiment. Is this even apart of a therapist job at the VA ? I’m wondering if this guy is just trying to get my PTSD rating lowered by having the VA see I can do test?

Crazy elf
Crazy elf

I never had to do anything like that. Unless times have changed, I’d be very careful!

cj
cj

@lily: Lily, I honestly can’t tell you what the underlying motive is, but, from personal experience, the last time I trusted the VA, they used that trust against me. Never again.

I have stated before, every time the VA is faced with either the right choice, or the wrong choice, they will undoubtedly take the wrong choice. Even if your therapist is on the level, the VA sure as hell isn’t.

Food for thought.

lily
lily

Thanks, I’m really considering dropping out of VA therapy. I went in after 15 years and found out it’s so pathetic. I know way more than they do about coping with my symptoms. I think I’m just going to see a private psychiatrist a few times a year to cover my ass. I found out I have a gene that makes me 7x less likely to respond to antidepressants. That’s why the VA medication never worked. I’m done being a human experiment for the VA.

cj
cj

@lily:Lily, that is a plan, don’t let them off the hook for your care ever, always make your 6 month apt. I am with you and Crazy elf, I just don’t trust them, Seems they are always up to no good. Let us know if they say, or do anything negative, because of whatever decision you have made.

disgruntled vet
disgruntled vet

*following*

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