VA Violated Research Rules, Called Dead Veterans ‘Nonhuman Subjects’
VA finally admitted a kidney transplant study it participated in mistakenly called dead veterans “nonhuman subjects.”
The Portland VA participated in a transplant study led by the University of San Francisco that involved cooling bodies of dead veterans prior to removing kidneys for live veterans. The university and participant institutions like VA agreed with the institutional review board application referencing dead veterans as being “nonhuman.”
After being outed by Public Citizen, a health safety watchdog group, VA finally acknowledged the mistake in a lengthy apology letter issued by the agency.
I reported on this grotesque violation of human rights months ago and was fortunate enough to have a reader reach out with the decision / admission yesterday.
RELATED: Portland VA – Human Experiments Unethical, No Consent
A read through VA’s rationale is worth a read. They explain why it made the mistake or why VA is unable to contact those individuals who were unwittingly party of the human research project.
Drain the swamp? Let’s start with the VA Office of Research Oversight since they have no problem violating numerous state, federal and international laws intended at stemming the human rights violations Nazi researchers engaged in during WWII.
DOWNLOAD: https://www.citizen.org/documents/2315_VA-ORO-Final-Response-Letter_October%2026,2016.pdf
VA Dead Veterans Research Study Press Release
Public Citizen released the following press release:
Federal Officials Agree With Public Citizen: Kidney Transplant Experiment Violated Federal Human Research Rules
Public Citizen Had Called for Investigation Into Blatant Ethics Violations and for Disclosure to Patients Who Were Unwitting Experimental Subjects
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Agreeing with Public Citizen, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs’ (VA’s) Office of Research Oversight (ORO) has found that a clinical study involving hundreds of kidney transplant patients violated federal rules for the protection of human research subjects. The findings, outlined in a letter the ORO released late Wednesday, stem from an investigation conducted by ORO in response to Public Citizen’s April 20, 2016, letter calling on the VA’s ORO and the U.S. Office for Human Research Protections (OHRP) to launch an ethics investigation into the study and to disclose the details of the experiment to the hundreds of patients who unwittingly participated.
ORO’s letter confirms Public Citizen’s allegations that the study was incorrectly determined not to involve human subjects research and, as a result, the transplant patients enrolled in the study were not afforded the protections required under federal regulations, including the requirement that the researchers obtain the subjects’ voluntary informed consent prior to their enrollment.
The purpose of the study was to test whether cooling kidneys before a transplant would result in fewer post-transplant complications. In the study, 572 patients received kidneys from deceased donors whose bodies either were kept near normal body temperature or were slightly cooled following declaration of brain death. Prior to the study, the researchers acknowledged that both the benefits and, importantly, the risks of such cooling for transplant recipients were unknown.
As originally detailed in Public Citizen’s April 20 letter, the institutional review board (IRB) at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) — the lead institution for the study — incorrectly determined that this research constituted “nonhuman subjects research under U.S. federal law, since the patients were deceased.” As a result of this clear error, the IRB failed to adequately review and approve the trial in accordance with federal regulations to protect human subjects, including provisions related to informed consent.
“We applaud ORO for promptly investigating our complaint and for reaching what was the only reasonable conclusion: This study involved human subjects research,” said Dr. Michael Carome, director of Public Citizen’s Health Research Group. “It is disturbing that the university’s review board concluded that this study involved solely deceased kidney donors and failed to recognize that the living kidney transplant recipients were human subjects. This led to serious violations of the rights of these patients who were the unknowing guinea pigs in this experiment.”
The kidney transplant study was funded by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) through a grant from the U.S. Health Resources and Services Administration and was conducted, in part, by the VA. Thus, both the OHRP and the VA’s ORO have jurisdiction over this research. Public Citizen had asked the VA’s ORO and the OHRP to launch a joint compliance oversight investigation and to appropriately sanction all institutions engaged in the study for failing to protect the human subjects who were enrolled in the research.
Because the VA’s ORO does not have direct oversight authority over the UCSF or the other non-VA hospitals where kidney transplant patients were enrolled in the study, the VA’s ORO is not able to sanction these institutions, nor can VA officials require that investigators inform the subjects of their unwitting enrollment in the experiment. The OHRP has such authority. But to date — in contrast to the VA’s ORO — the OHRP has not yet even opened a formal compliance oversight investigation into this research.
“The failure of the OHRP to promptly initiate a formal compliance oversight investigation of our complaint reflects a troubling pattern of inadequate enforcement of the federal human subjects protection regulations by the HHS office over the past several years,” Carome said. “The OHRP needs to stop turning a blind eye to obvious violations of federal regulations and of research subjects’ rights.”
###
Source: https://www.citizen.org/pressroom/pressroomredirect.cfm?ID=9045
So I finally got a chance to read this. It takes some serious mental gymnastics and the belief that people are stupid to claim that this was non human research since the veterans were dead.
I get the sense in reading this that some VA connected researcher realized they would be laughed at if they tried this stunt in a civilian hospital, so they convinced their buddies in the VA to do it since the oversight would be nonexistent.
I would very much like to know the names of any researcher or other medical provider involved in this fiasco. It would be satisfying to FOIA everything about this and publicize exactly what they think of veterans as subhuman or nonhuman not requiring the usual protection of those involved in medical research.
I suspect some of these researchers have been involved in BS research for a very long time, and this isn’t the first time they have done this.
Anyone find any names of those involved?
Hey 91Veteran,
If you are serious about filing FOIAs I will find the names for you.
Just want to point out that in fact the Veterans were not dead when they harvested the organs. If you read through the links Ben provided in the article it states that the Veterans were placed in induced Hyperthermia prior to organ harvesting. Although they also state that all subjects were considered Brain Dead prior to being placed in Hyperthermia.
What they do not state is how the Veterans became Brain Dead or what measures were used to consider the Veteran Brain Dead.
Yes, I am serious about submitting FOIAs for this. I wonder how successful any request would be if they didn’t publish any research. I could see some hack in the VA denying the request as claiming no research was published.
There certainly should be many other documents available though.
I would appreciate any information you could provide.
Hey, Seymour
You gotta watch this video out this morning.
From;
“Jim Beckworth reporting”
Titled;
“Boom! Look Who May Be The Next White House Press Secretary”
(12:03 minutes long)
Ms. Laura Ingraham is being considered for the position. On “Fox News Sunday Morning” she slams the other guests. Over the “left wing propaganda” they tried to spew!
She can really handle these “idiotic left wing radical hate spewers of lies!”
I hope she accepts the position!
Hey Elf,
You know how there is now a lot of talk about a number of Fake News Websites. When you sit down and look at the facts there really are a number of them out there on the Web.
Ron Paul just published a list of the Fake news websites and when I look at the list and the information he used to compile the list. There is only one conclusion. We really do have a problem with these sites being allowed to broadcast their fake news without a disclaimer during each story they are creating.
A good article on the subject is at: “Ron Paul reveals hit list of alleged ‘fake news’ journalists”
“https://www.rt.com/usa/367557-ron-paul-fake-news/”
From the Article: “Former congressman Ron Paul revealed a list of “fake news” journalists he claims are responsible for “bogus wars” and lies about Hillary Clinton’s chances of winning the election. Journalists from CNN, the New York Times, and the Guardian are included.”
“This list contains the culprits who told us that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and lied us into multiple bogus wars,” according to a report on his website, Ron Paul Liberty Report. Paul claims the list is sourced and “holds a lot more water” than a list previously released by Melissa Zimdars, who is described on Paul’s website as “a leftist feminist professor.”
““These are the news sources that told us ‘if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor,’” he said. “They told us that Hillary Clinton had a 98% of winning the election. They tell us in a never-ending loop that ‘The economy is in great shape!’”
“Paul’s list includes the full names of the “fake news” journalists as well as the publications they write for, with what appears to be hyperlinks to where the allegations are sourced from.”
“CNN is Paul’s biggest alleged culprit, with nine entries, followed by the NY Times and MSNBC, with six each. The NY Times has recently come under fire from President-elect Donald Trump, who accuses them of being “totally wrong” on news regarding his transition team, while describing them as “failing.””
Honestly something does need to be done about all this fake news the networks are putting out.
These Fake News Sites should be required to state who is paying for each fake news broadcast and also how much is being paid. Basically when they do one of their fake news stories they should be required to state and now for a word from our sponsors and how much that sponsor is paying before air one of their fake news stories.
Seymour,
According to a “study” from England, “Conspiracy Theorists are more intelligent than others!” It’s because, “Theorists” don’t always believe what the medias and governments put out. They investigate and learn, on their own, what’s occurring, not only what’s occurring in their own country, but world wide. Before making, or jumping to a conclusion, Conspiracy Theorists dig deep for answers!
I believe this is the reason behind “Social Media’s” triumph behind Mr. Trump’s successful bid for the presidency!
If it wasn’t for such “Right Wing News Medias” truth finding, we would have been stuck with an administration seeking to bring us to a war we would have not survived!
We all knew CNN, CNBC, NYT and other “right wing extremist nut cakes” were responsible for all the misinformation out there. They were caught, red handed, trying to sway people’s minds. In many cases, they have succeeded! Look at all the idiots out there protesting!
I believe it will calm somewhat after jobs are created, illegal criminal immigrants are deported (thereby having massive drops in crime) and other ‘promises’ are kept by President Elect Trump. We will see a more “Unified America”!
It will just take time!
P.S.
Seymour,
Jesse Ventura, and MANY others, were right. It’s “…all about ‘ratings and money…”!
These “left wing radical news medias”, owned by a few individuals, aren’t interested in “reporting the news”! They “invent the news!”
Remember that CNN news reporter saying, “We’re doing everything we can to get her [Hillary Clinton] elected!”
That’s what true Americans had to deal with! If only these “butt hurt” imbeciles would take the time to learn the truth! Wouldn’t that be amazing!
Correction:
“LEFT WING RADICAL NEWS NUTCAKES”!
NOT right wing!
Seymour, the (04:00 minute video was right on target) video was great from that “alt-right news source!”
Plus, the pictures show exactly who’s responsible for telling the lies to America!
To Dennis and all you Marines out there!
You’re gonna love this Utube video. This young lady tells it like it is! She was laughing so hard about what might have happened to a bunch of ‘Knuckelheaded Protesters’ in Tampa, Florida. If they hadn’t been protected by law enforcement!!!!!!!
Enjoy, brothers and sisters!
From: “Tree Of Logic.com”
Titled;
“Whoops: Anti-Trump Protesters Run Into The Marines”
published on Nov 17, 2016
(13:37 minutes)
P.S.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, MARINES!
WOW! Judge Jeanine Pirro was on a roll last night.
“Judge Jeanine Pirro FURIOUS at Classless Hamilton Cast Attacking Mike Pence!! November 19, 2016”
(06:31 minutes)
—————————
This one is from the Alt-Right news agency.
“Emergency Message To Leftists Fr Trump/Steve Bannon”
Published Nov. 19, 2016 – Quote; “Alex Jones covers the universal prosperity message encoded in the interview Trump’s head council Steve Bannon gave to the Hollywood reporter!”
Not only is FORD coming back, so is APPLE!
1.) From: “Patriot Powdered News”
by; Michael Snyder
“Why Donald Trump Must Shut Down The Federal Reserve And Start Issuing Debt-Free Money”
——————
#2.) From “Newsmax.com”
“Mexico Seeks Trump Talks To Modernize NAFTA”
Saturday 19 Nov. 2016
First Canada wants to renegotiate NAFTA, Now Mexico!
____________________
#3.)
From: “Larry King – Politicking”
Nov. 3, 2016
“Best Jesse Ventura Interview On YouTube Talks Politics, Weed and Conspiracy Theories”
(26:52 minutes long)
Interesting interview. A must watch for everyone!
Seymore,
I’m not sure who the “originator”, (alt-right news media), of this utube video is, only it’s got one great little song taken from “Gilligan’s Island” (the words are changed to show the guilty)!
Titled:
“Pedophile Island: Epstein, Huma. Bill & Hillary Clinton”
Published on Nov. 5, 2016 – “Jeffrey Epstein Pedophile Orgy Island with Huma, Bill & Hillary!”
I, along with many others, had no idea this investigation was so in depth and broad. There’s proof “Prince Andrew of England” is now also involved. This was reported on world news a few nights ago. The wife saw it!
The wife and I have been appalled at these turn of events. We knew there were investigations into “sex trafficking” for over a year. We just didn’t know how deep it went.
With the “discovery” of the 650,000 “Weinergate” emails, and the NYPD not wanting this to be covered up. There just might be a “day of reckoning” coming, (not only the Clinton’s), but for many other sick degenerates!
Shortly after the “discovery” of Weiner’s emails, it was reported Hillary stated; quote: “If we don’t win, all of us will be heading to the gallows!”
Could she have known what could be in store for lots of people within her ‘private circle’? Makes one wonder!
Hey Elf,
Good Video. Also I do want to point out that it is only scratching the surface of the problem. When they start talking about the Island of Saipan you will know that they are getting closer to the truth about how bad it is.
Seymour,
It seems this “illegal activity” is much deeper than anyone thought.
I wonder if the NYPD is ready to start arresting anyone over this atrocity? Remember, they basically told the FBI not to bury this!
When do you think Saipan’s involvement in the sex trade will hit the media? If I remember, there’s been some reports. Just not as broad or in-depth as Jeffrey Epstein’s “pedophile island”!
Elf,
We might not hear anything about it until after Trump is president. I will go ahead and write a little about what you will be hearing about King Larry, another billionaire pedophile, who is also know as Larry Hillblom, or the H in the shipper DHL. His fondness for underage virgins and his help to the Clintons in setting up the Saipan Slave trade. Just like the Clinton Foundation is setting up in Haiti.
It is pretty interesting given that currently Saipan is the only US territory where Slavery is legal, money laundering is also legal, US citizenships are for sales and after you pay your federal taxes you are given a rebate of 95% of the taxes you paid. All setup during Bill Clinton’s administration with the help of king Larry.
There is much more to it like the slavery includes forced sexual slavery, slave labor and confinement of slaves. Also there is the fact that our former Secretary of Veterans Affairs, general Eric Shinseki, was a member of the board of a bank in Saipan before becoming Secretary and it is the same job he returned to after leaving VA.
Below is a link to a Video and a articles on the subject. Keep in mind the only thing that the Clinton Foundation has done in Haiti is build a power plant and that plant powers the industrial park for garment manufacturers that was built by the Clinton foundation.
“ARCHIVE VIDEO: Shame of Saipan, an Investigation”, by Brian Ross, CBS News
This is what occurred during Bill Clinton’s administration in Saipan and it is continuing today.
“https://abcnews.go.com/International/video/archive-video-shame-saipan-investigation-39762650”
“THE GUANTANAMO OF CHILD SLAVERY AND CHILD PROSTITUTION”
“https://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2010/01/guantanamo-of-child-slavery-and-child.html”
It is worth noting that one of the major tourist attraction on Saipan is the cell where Amelia Earhart was held after being shot down and before she was executed by Japan on the Island.
Another good article by MS. Magazine about the slavery on Saipan.
“Paradise Lost Greed, Sex Slavery, Forced Abortions and Right-Wing Moralists”, by Rebecca Clarren, spring 2006
California UCDavis neurosurgeons use fecal gut bacteria to arrest certain brain tumors. The UCD docs were not licensed anywhere in the U.S. much less in CA. One came from the Netherlands, home of the NAZI’s. It was all experimentation not sanctioned by the FDA, these docs were just doing their own thing without anyone’s permission and getting federal funds, although this part of the neuro medicine UCD was finally cut off from federal funds via tax payer dollars. The Same UCD also got caught with a kidney program that was B. S. too. Kaiser med students with UCD med students experiment all the time on patients, especially on diabetics. Wonder where communist or nazi style medicine came in from, try David Lawrence, former CEO& President of kaiser who lived in S. America for years AND BROUGHT his idea of cheap labor in medicine. Now it permeates in all medical facilities and the VA is right on top besides kaiser and the universities across the U.S.A. Now we’re all experiments and the medical community is making billions on American citizens by denying them any real care,and then using them for experimentation after giving them false terminal medical conditions. It is, after all, just about money.Making billions of of denying care, maiming, making sick . We’ve been taken over by corporations from other countries too who don’t give a damn about the American people, vets and all.
As far as illegals go and their sanctuary cities, it’s now coming out onto just what all cities were complicit and we don’t know yet all of the finances that we paid went to the illegals and what it took to get them our jobs after many of were laid off, fired or purposely hurt on the job. It’s about cheap labor AFTER they disabled American injured workers and whose work earned , WC & SSA benefits going to the illegals to work at our jobs on the cheap. The AFL-CIO not only helped for the dems and repubs (there are many unionized jobs to route illegal folks that no one would no about like railways, ships, buses, airplanes) but it has been socking away our dues, those who actually paid them, for several decades to the tune of many billions while we lost everything. It is yet another reason why current union employees are so inept, they’re trained to do less and save more for top officials. It’s all done on purpose to keep our agencies from top performance. It’s called saving money for agency heads to shift to oversea offshore accounts. Yes, even some in the DOD are doing it too. Just like any other CEO and their minions. Let’s just see how far, deep and wide Trump will actually drain the swamp. What do we, those who already have been harmed and denied, what can we look forward to in all of this?
KNOWING THE VA – THE VETERANS WEREN’T EVEN “DEAD” OR WHY ELSE WOULD YOU HAVE TO COOL A DEAD BODY? THEY GET COLD EVEN BEFORE THEY DIE. THE BODIES WOULD HAVE HAD TO BE WARM TO FORCE THEM TO COOL THEM…. I’M NOT SURPRISED. THE VA SEES VETERANS AS NON-HUMANS WHEN THEY’RE ALIVE….I’M NOT DYING AT A VA HOSPITAL FOR SURE. TAKE ALL YOUR PARTS BEFORE YOUR EVEN DEAD. THAT’S WHAT A TEACHING HOSPITAL DOES, WHICH IS WHAT THE VA HOSPITALS ARE…. YOUR NOT HUMAN. YOUR A GUINEA PIG / LABORATORY RAT FOR THEIR PLEASURE AND ENTERTAINMENT. DON’T THINK THEY’RE NOT MAKING MONEY OFF VETERANS BECAUSE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES PAY THE GOVERNMENT FOR THE PRIVLEDGE OF SENDING THEIR STUDENTS, RESIDENTS AND INTERNS THERE. WHERE ELSE CAN THEY FIND LIVING NON-HUMANS FOR THEIR RESEARCH PROGRAMS.
Sandy,
Like you I do know a little about the VA. Just want to point out that in fact the Veterans were not dead when they harvested the organs. If you read through the links Ben provided in the article it states that the Veterans were placed in induced Hyperthermia prior to organ harvesting. Although they also state that all subjects were considered Brain Dead prior to being placed in Hyperthermia.
What they do not state is how the Veterans became Brain Dead or what measures were used to consider the Veteran Brain Dead.
A personal experience I had at a hospital, not connected to the VA, where a Neurosurgeon improperly declared my girl friends mother brain dead after she was hit by a car. I was forced to cause a major seen in the hospitals intensive care unit to prove she was not brain dead. A short time latter the Neurosurgeon lost his license in my state then moved to Texas where within a year he lost his license there. Now he is most likely working at some VAMC somewhere.
Your are right about each VA Hospital being teaching hospitals. But wrong about the research Colleges paying to use Veterans as Guinea Pigs. The colleges are now being paid by the VA to use Veterans in all of their research. That is why McDonald has replaced all Chief of Staffs at all VA Facilities with department heads employed by the Colleges. That places the Colleges in charge of hiring and firing of all medical staff members at the VA facility.
It also means that the college’s institutional review board are in charge of determining what is ethical research not the VA. Just like the research in Ben’s article the college had full control not the VA.
Dear President Elect Trump,
Please read the comments on this website. Please focus on the title of this article in particular. Now please accept this proposal;
Upon assuming the authority to do so, please immediately authorize an addition to each and every branch of the United States Military an equal portion of an additional 10,000 ordained men and women of all faiths to serve to in the US Chaplain Corps VA detail. The reductions in staff at VA will offset the cost thusly; all programs at VA that function now as Patient Advocate will be completely replaced by the US Chaplain Corps. All complaints regarding any VA function will be fielded solely by the US Chaplain Corps who will be sworn to uphold the standards of conduct expected at any military post so assigned to them.
The Chaplain Corps will have no direct authority over the VA other than complete access to any information they deem necessary to fulfill their mission. The VA will have no authority over the Chaplain Corps. The Chaplain Corps will be in the Joint Chiefs Of Staff chain of command, who will report to POTUS (you sir).
My logic is this; complaints are seldom made in the absence of harm done. Irregardless of fault, Chaplains are trained to interface with those who have been harmed. One apology could easily resolve what hundreds of thousands of dollars cannot, therefor further saving money.
The prime reason though is that America needs “boots on the ground” in order to combat the war that still rages on American soil and inside the bodies and spirits of our warriors who made it home. We need those who are not afraid to fight and have the courage to do so, and men and women of the United States Chaplain Corps have fought alongside our troops for the very souls of our warriors often distinguishing themselves through unarmed valor and sacrifice beyond measure. The war that rages on American sir, is a spiritual one and deadly beyond telling.
I am writing to you because I know so very many have not yet lost the battle sir, but we need reenforcements inbound ASAP. The outer wire has been breached and the enemy is at hand. The outer wire fell when ill trained doctors lobbed pill grenades and in the confusion many friendly casualties were made. The enemy has advanced beyond the first wire.
In every war the last hope, the last prayer of the doomed is that the Calvalry will somehow make it in time. My tormented veteran brothers need the calvalry and time is of the essence. That calvarly can be the US Chaplain Corps – Veteran Service. You once told me, The People, that you would employ individuals of the highest qualifications to accomplish your vow to install accountability back into the Department of Veterans Affairs. Can you think of a more capable group for helping you do this? Can you think of a better fighting force to help our vets find their soul? Ignore the spirit, and you ignore the man. The battle is spritual and it is on that field that we must send in the troops. Troops that hold honor above self.
No union can stop you from this – you are Commander In Chief. No law is written to stop you – you are the the Chief Law Enforcement official. No political party can stop you because you already blew past them like a hot fart after a chili cook off.
Please give this a shot. Let the Chaplain Corps find the rot you seek and you will find the source of it too – and these people are afraid of nothing on his Earth except losing their soul. Perfect.
…yes, I just called the President Elect a hot fart.
Poll:
you are –
a) incredibly brave
b) incredibly stupid
c) A United States Marine
d) All of the above
Vote once only and no stealing ballots.
Earlier I tried to put a comment on from a specific “Alt-Right News Agency”! Again, somehow, the video would not ‘post’ here.
I’ll try again. Only this time I’ll leave off “where” and from “who” is reporting.
The title of the video will lead y’all to the Utube site.
“FBI Exposes Clinton Pedophile Satanic Network”
published November 5, 2016
Quote: “The FBI has been forced into exposing the Clinton pedophile network by the NYPD!”
This video, albeit from a few weeks ago, does show the reality behind many in our ‘elitist’ groups. Thereby, making a mockery out of our legal system.
For some unknown reason, I believe this could be the reason behind “WHY” that female investigator was found dead last Sunday!
She was onto something no one wanted exposed! Then, in my opinion, she paid for it with her life!
As more and more information comes out of the “Weiner Email, (650,000), Sex Investigation”, we will learn more concerning how many people are actually involved.
This is, in my opinion, the beginning of the end for many individuals!
Additional articles out yesterday.
1.)
From: “The Post”
“A Conservative Perspective”
Titled:
“Liberal Prosecutors: Bought and Paid For By George Soros”
posted Friday 18th of November 2016
By Alice Greene : Staff Writer
Seems Soros was extremely busy, spending millions of $$$$$$, trying to get “like minded individuals” elected. Just as he did during the Presidential Race!
—————————
2.)
“Nationwide Reciprocity Under Trump?”
“The Future of Our Gun Rights”
by: Tim Schmidt – USCCA Founder
November 2016 * Issue No. 47
On this, Tim Schmidt is holding President Elect Trump to his word on the “Second Amendment”! “Self Protection” does not end at the end of ones driveway!
Trump also wants “Concealed Carry”, by law abiding citizens, be implemented nationwide! Also, instead of adding more laws, prosecute illegal gun owners, (CRIMINALS), with the laws on the books now!
This sounds like hepatitis C all over again I wonder if the dead people knew where they were going . I find it so hard to believe that this kind of crap is still going on. This is just one hospital , and we all know how the VA gets around . I have to believe there’s more than one Frankenstein out there.
Jo3n,
I agree. If it’s happening at that VHA/University, it’s more likely than not, happening at others!
Therefore, an investigation, by outside law enforcement agencies and ultimately the DOJ, should take part in these “illegal incidents”!
Crazy ELF a thought just came to mind. Could it be that the dead Veterans were the Veterans used to do the voting for the Hillabeast? The Demo party used whom ever they could to vote illegally.
No Veterans I know would vote for her. Unless they have been paid off.
Well, Katterkat, you may be on to something.
With all the “voter fraud” committed by the Dems this last election. It’s certainly conceivable these dead veterans were voting.
Look at it this way. It’s been reported, upwards of over 1 million dead people voted. Upwards of 3 million illegal immigrants voted. Texas, Indiana, Illinois, Florida and a host of other states reported “massive voter fraud” being committed.
All of these factual reports are in violation of the Constitution. Especially when it comes to “WHO” is allowed to vote!
Now, there’s a bill introduced to Congress, by Democrats, wanting to change the “Founding Father’s”
way of voting. They want to get rid of the “Electoral College”. Which would eliminate all votes from rural areas. Which would allow the Dems, more likely than not, to garner more votes from large metropolitan areas. Almost guaranteeing multiple Democratic wins in the future.
That’s not my opinion, it is factual. Because, the Democrats would only have to cater to the inner cities. Areas which would allow the Democrats to continue to keep minorities in a form of “minimum wage slavery”!
Whether y’all agree or not. Check out the truth on social media! Social media was instrumental in electing Mr. Trump!
Hey Elf,
I see Robbie McDonald has just won another award for all his bogus work at the VA.
“Watchdog Group Names VA Secretary Its ‘Porker of the Month’”, by Jack Heretik, The Washington Free Beacon, Nov 18, 2016
“https://freebeacon.com/issues/watchdog-group-names-va-secretary-porker-month/”
Notice of all the soon to be open positions in new administration, you do not hear of people vying for VA Secretary? Who in their right minds would want that job, right? What I fear is that some of the dead meat already in VA upper management will remain and slither into next slot up…please, Pres. Elect Trump, prove me entirely wrong!
Oh, I think I smell troll.
@namnibor,
Yep, there’s that familiar putrid scent of TROLL.
and he’s directing his/her/it’s hate filled rhetoric right at me!
Must be he/she/it’s a “Left Wing Nut Dumbocrat” needing comfort. Guess he/she/it didn’t get his coloring book and crayons. Or, a hug from a service dog. Or he/she/it wasn’t allowed to skip classes or skip exams to make Him/Her/It feel better!
Ahhhh Poor Baby!
@Seymore,
Is the “Porker of the Month Award” anything like the “Fickled Finger of Fate Award”, or the “Sock It To Me Award”?
Wouldn’t it be great to see McDuck get watered down.
I wish we had a show like “Laugh-In” around today. These young butt hurt anarchists sure would learn a thing or two about what is really worth demonstrating over!
Rowan and Martin knew exactly what they were doing. As did the “Smothers Brothers”!
Seymore,
Here’s a Utube video exposing more on that “child sex slave investigator” found DEAD in Haiti.
Titled;
“Breaking: Reporter found dead while investigating Clinton Reddit User finds smoking gun”
published on Nov. 17, 2016
“Brother Jim Reporting”
There’s plenty of ‘links’ dating back to January 2016.
Plus, additional information concerning how Walmart and other outlets are tied into this.
@namnibor and Dennis,
Giving pardons to illegals does not make them citizens. It does, on the other hand, allow them to continue breaking the law.
Vice President Elect Pence had a ‘closed door session’ with Congress on Wednesday. His speech was to inform them to “…buckle up…” AND get ready “…to work hard…” starting January 3rd when they reconvene.
First order of business will be the replacement of Obamacare. Then there will be more after that.
There’s also an article out saying the “Oval Office will begin to be redesigned…” and the new president will not be able to use it for a year.
How about this article. Want to explore more into “Child Sex Slaves” and the “Clinton Foundation”?
Here’s an interesting article out yesterday from “The Political Insider”!
titled:
“After Election, The Woman Investigating Clinton Foundation Crimes, FOUND DEAD!”
by; Kosar (Breaking News Editor)
17 Nov. 2016
There’s some interesting ‘links’ showing the “personal connection” between Hillary Clinton and those involved in “Sex Trafficking of Minors”!
Plus the “Lolita Express”, Epstein’s Island of degradation and the current (2011 & forward) Haitian government.
Crazy Elf: YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT!
@Smarter than you,
Really?
And just what have I commented on that caused you to insult me?
Or, is it you don’t want to be informed about what’s happening in our country?
Or, is it that you don’t know how to use intelligent sentences?
Smarter,
This is a forum mostly that disparages VHA, although I can see how tempting it is to try to tap the talent here.
Clearly you are a recruiter for VHA but I think that identifying Crazy Elf as a prime candidate for being a potential VA mental health care provider is misguided, and your use of the VA recruitment code phrase is a serious breach of VA security!
It is true that the name of this forum is disabledveterans dot org, but my friend you got it backwards – we came to this site AFTER we became disabled – the name is not for what happens after vets go to the VA for caremat all even if that is what happens. You got it it all wrong! This is not a VA recuitment site and the name is not for the results of VA care – it in,y works out that way.
I realize that your comment was meant as the standard greering for VA medical staff recuitment, and to his credit Crazy Elf would surely set a new gold standard of care at VA but when the other med students figure out the patient exceees their own abilities they are gonna pout and throw tantrums. Just because CE cares about vets is no reason to elelvate his intelligence potential above standard VA providers. Be real man.
Do you really want to see a “food fight” in the transplant room over this? Come on dude go troll for new doctors on a site that pre med VA students use, ok? I think its called Apetube. I know the old OIG head used that site. “Whacka whacka whacka” became the new VA recruitment greeting didn’t it?
Hey Ben,
Think you can email the ip address used by the poster “Smarter than you”. I do want to report this one.
Thank You much!
I first went to the Portland VA back in 1979. Since I was not service connected at the time, they basically told me to f**k off. They didn’t even try to help me (duty to assist) or tell me what I should do. They seemed very spooky, wouldn’t talk much, only if they got angry. Everyone had cool, slack jobs, and smoked while working.
11/18/2016
Dear Benjamin Krause,
Intent.
As you can plainly see, this behavior has gone into places normal humans cannot defend.
According to the Arizona Republic yesterday, Deputy Secretary of the VA, Gibson Sloan, had to apologize for the delayed care to a group of angry Veterans this week.
With every news article coming out this year, “we” have clear evidence that the “Law Makers” are failing in their fiduciary duties.
Multnomah County is where the city of Portland is located, and this county is a Sanctuary County (https://cis.org/Sanctuary-Cities-Map).
It is sad to see that Most of all the Counties in California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, New Mexico, and Iowa are Sanctuary.
“Nonhuman,” do expect anything different from these people?
What is the definition of insane?
Then add criminal in the front of that.
Then add evil.
“…Dr. Michael Carome, director of Public Citizen’s Health Research Group. ‘It is disturbing that the university’s review board concluded that this study involved solely deceased kidney donors and failed to recognize that the living kidney transplant recipients were human subjects.’”
Academicians think they are the only one, just like the Media industry in the Presidential Election; now they are trying to figure out how could they “get it so wrong.”
You maybe be getting close to the problem now.
Mastromarino is alive and well, through the Rathburns [former University of Michigan morgue attendant] who obviously ran with the ball after Mike got slammed, in 2006. So who is picking up this “Ball” and running for it now, for the next 10 years?
Why are Universities/ Academicians out of control?
Sincerely,
Don Karg
Did the families know what happened to their loved ones? What kind of monster would even initiate these studies? No respect even in death towards a Veteran.
“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele”
From Nazi Germany, Dr. Josef Mengele as but one horrific reminder of why such international ethics laws were developed in first place and the VA thumbs it’s collective noses at it.
From: “Fox News – Live”
Lou Dobbs reporting.
“President Elect Trump Threatens The Lawless Mayor’s Of Sanctuary Cities With A $650 Billion Haircut 11/17/16”
Seems that’s the amount all these cities receive from taxpayers. Plus, Obama to pardon 750,000+/- illegals.
Even IF he were to pardon them, it still does not grant them citizenship! So, what’s the point/agenda behind this Unconstitutional Act?
@crazy elf- Obama has authorized over 750,000 Haitian prisoners to be released into population and no, they are not U.S. citizens. I told you, this is only but the start of the final 60 days of thumbing nose at USA and the train wreck has only just left the station for final approach in 60 days. Wait for it…
@namibor,
An article out yesterday or today shows the Mayor of Chicago breaking the law by dipping into monies he’s not allowed to use for personal travel, meals, etc.
One has to realize, President Elect Trump won’t be able to do anything (legally) until after inauguration! Even then it will take time to initiate any kind of judicial attack against any and all those who have ripped off the taxpayers, committed crimes, etc., etc.!
the point of the pardon is to make it impossible to imprison them. There is no other purpose of a pardon.
Just what ‘sanctuary cities’ such as Chicago need; more future criminals. I read they all come with ankle monitors, so why not ask each and everyone of the butt hurt cupcakes protesting out there to take a few Haitian prisoners into their humble gated communities and let that bake, check back in news and see how that worked-out for them?
Yep, a pardon is only a presidential get out of jail forever card and yet this POTUS cannot bring himself to address…really address the horrors and inhumane things the VA is doing right under his belt?
If there was such thing as a Haitian Army Veteran here illegally in the USA, you have better chance of getting better care. Sad. This mass pardon also means UBER went entirely down the toilet, nationally or at least in sanctuary cities…which are illegal mind you…but the butt hurt cupcakes cannot see this.
WTF?
Drain The Swamp.
@Dennis,
A “blanket pardon” doesn’t entirely “wipe a slate clean”!
For example, just because, as in the pardon given by Ford to Nixon for the Watergate incident, didn’t include the illegal activities of “The Pentagon Papers!”
There were still active investigations going on in that little fiasco.
Or, how about the “blanket pardons” handed out to all those “draft dodgers”? Why weren’t any given to those serving time in American prisons at that time?
There’s also the 400+ pardons handed out by Clinton in his last few months in office for criminals. One such criminal was his own brother or brother-in-law. Along with Mark Rich. A person who was living in Europe and had multiple warrants out for his arrest. Yet, his wife donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Clinton Foundation and miraculously Rich gets a pardon. Yet, he stayed in Europe. Why? Because the investigations were still ongoing!
There’s more to these pardons people don’t understand. I know I don’t understand everything about them!
VA had and have this mentality of Veterans all along even to the living.
There is a pulse that beats inside any organization independent of the individuals but which connects, binds, and aligns all processes within.
Within the Marine Corp the pulse is called “self sacrifice.” Do or die.
Within the Starbucks Corporation the pulse is called “making it right” by the customer. Do the right thing.
Within the Department of Veterans Affairs the pulse is called “contempt” of the veterans, their bodies, and their pitiful little lives. There is no seperate definition within VA of the words “right” and “wrong” which streamlines and strengthens the pulse.
Contempt is the bulwark tradition of VA and includes contempt for;
Congress
The Circuit Court
POTUS
Sec. VA
Federal Law
Medical ethics
Personal accountability
United State Vets
The Constitution
The People
and most of all, The Truth.
This is the pulse we hear from VA and if stench made a sound we would hear a symphony.
Perhaps the new President can perform his own transplant? Perhaps he can do his own experimental surgery and give VA a pulse that sounds like America. Maybe he can finally give VA what it has never had;
A heart.
Since my blood is worked up over this I will be specific about how the VA will get a heart stuffed down their throats and how America will be aboe to open the spigot to this part of the swamp.
It is little known that the law creating this cabinet level Department of Veterans Affairs that a KEY difference and hotly debated issue was called simply “Judicial Review”.
The Executive Branch under Reagan drew a line in the sand over this one issue and Reagan won out. He did this because if Americans had the ability to seek relief via Judicial Review it meant that the Presidency itself would be subject to judicial review of its own decisions regarding VA. I personally adored Reagan and my heart nearly burst with pride to serve under him as a Marine, but in this one instance his refusal to release a portion of Executive power was a mistake.
Without Judicial Review as a Constituional requirement, the Department was tasked with reviewing itself for compliance with law. Furthermore it was tasked to correct itself when laws were broken, and then VA would be asked to decide what its own punishment would be, and any American appealling those decisions could only legally appeal them to the ones who made them.
Does this sound like the America we got promised as children? Is this the America that I will hand my own grandchild? Will I sit by and grow old comfortably and spend my hours whittling sticks? Or will I, will We The People decide that those called “Judges” will finally be the fuse that lights when tyranny and misdeed visit harm onto our vets?
The first step to incorporating VA back into America and out of faiery land is to ask those experts in law that are so thoroughly vetted and respected that they have earned the title “Judge”. McCain once boasted that certain VA people belong in jail. McCains boast is flacid. He has no power to do that.
Trump has advocated for imprisoning wrong doers. The man who is just now learning launch codes for M.A.D. (Mutual Assured Destruction) and by fate and fortune is nearly the most powerful man in the world can’t put people in prison either. Like Sen McCain, his boast is lame.
There is but one person that can imprison and his name is “Judge”. He employees temporary workers from a wide range of Americans. His Disruptive Behavior Committee is named “Jury”, and his Directive is not from VA – it is from the Constitution.
The spigot that starts to drain the swamp is something congress CAN do nut will need the balls to do it. Congress can pass a law allowing for Judicial Review of any and all VA decisions. VA is not America until VA is under Judicial Review like any other living soul within our borders.
President Elect Trump, I beg you to relent this power of review to the Judiciary so VA can no longer hide behind yourmown coat tails.
With respect,
A United States Marine, inactive
I am living proof “some how”. Those people could f###k up treating a hang nail.
It’s incredible…
One revelation after another. When will it end…
On top of news about yet another wait list, this one for mental services, now we find out the VA has become a virtual HUMAN BODY CHOP SHOP using unsuspecting Veterans as the supply and uninformed civilians as the demand…Were Veterans’ families informed of their loved ones’ organs being used in this experiment? Was consent even given to harvest the organs? Were recipients informed they were taking part in an experiment and that the procedure of allowing the organs to cool before transplant was untried and the result unknown? Were the organs vetted for health and viability before the procedure? Who got paid under the table to allow this obviously illegal research to happen? Finally, will anyone go to jail for this obviously criminal behavior and if NOT, WHY NOT?
Who got paid? Let me tell you – the ones performing the procedure, irregardless of ethics, will ultimately reap a lifetime of extremely generous funding, because despite the horrific ethical concerns the medical profession richly rewards those with knowledge that others lack.
They alone know how to cut chilled organs out of bodies and put them into living ones. They alone know what kills the living host in this scenario. They alone are the only ones shielded by VA.
Who got paid? The surgeons now have entire textbooks to write about it, lectures at med schools about it, Chief Of Staff positions, Senior Fellowships, et. al. Forget about Rolls Royce cars for these guys – they have Lear Jets now or soon will. If you or I defiled a human corpse thusly we would go Directly To Jail.
These guys just got a ride to Boardwalk.
Both of these videos are from the “Next News Network”, Gary Franci reporting.
1.)
“Globalists Terrified After Leaked Memo Reveals Trump’s First 200 Days Trade Plan”
Nov. 18, 2016
If y’all are unaware, FORD is bringing back to America their truck manufacturing. They’re planning to hire 1000’s of workers. Trump’s not even in office, and he’s generating jobs back here!
Just like Soros and Hillary are generating jobs. By paying these ungrateful anarchists, crybabies and rioters to destroy the very fabric of our “Constitutional Republic”!
2.)
“Breaking: After Trump Win, Dems Introduce Bill To Drastically Alter the Constitution”
Nov. 17, 2016
The “butt hurt dems” believe the ‘Electoral College’ is outdated. They plan, according to sources, to pander to the inner cities to ensure Democrats win all future elections.
Good luck to all you “Butt Hurt” asswipes!
I think the VA showed it’s true colors.
Veterans are mostly treated as Non Human or Sub Human. We are there to provide pay checks to people who could not get a job elsewhere.
@Bill,
VA employees can MAYBE find a job at some fast food restaurant. Then again, maybe that would require intelligence!
As in having to do “repetitive motions” over and over and over!
Shoveling poo at the zoo would meet that “repetitive motion” requirement. 🙂
I quite like that. I think what remains at the very bottom of the drained swamp will indeed require a lot of shoveling poo at the zoo. Shovel Ready Jobs, right there.
I do not think that Mitch McConnell, Ryan and Friends even realize yet that THEY too, are part of the needed swamp draining. Sheep to slaughter.
From: “military.com” this morning.
1.)
“Veterans Affairs Whistleblower Resigns, Citing Retaliation”
posted, 17 Nov 2016
This concerns the Colorado VA facilities & the bogus Mental Health wait times veterans are induring.
2.) from: “Americus Humani Generis”
“Trey Gowdy Smashes Arrogant DOJ Official For Threatening Congress”
published; Nov. 17, 2016
Quote: “Trey Gowdy does not like when you threaten to drop cases and release criminals because of spending cuts!”
Especially when Rep. Gowdy learns the DOJ spent $54 million on conferences last year!
3.) from; “Next News Network”
Gary Franci reporting.
“Breaking: Obama Just Went Onstage in Germany & Betrayed America With 7 Words”
Nov. 17, 2016
Obama has the audacity to NOT condemn the rioters and anarchists destroying property and shutting down America’s cities.
Obama first went to Greece. He wasn’t met with adoring fans. Instead, there were throngs of anti-Obama protesters waiting to bash his rhetoric!
Obama has truly caused America to become a “laughing stock around the world”!
In a startling development, OIG has identified the now deceased Igor as being the sentinel event for the first transplant! Dr. Frankenstien CLEARLY told him to retrieve a healthy BRAIN! The idiot brought back a kidney from the cemetary instead! OIG concludes that the surgeons had no choice but to proced with the organ they had, citing VA directives that no organs should go to waste, as part of Obama’s “no piece left behind” policy.
No word yet on the appeal of the DBC flag set on the patient who awoke snarling and severely unhappy… Dr. Frankenstein has retired as the Director of the facility and is unavailable for comment.
VISN-20 vows to implement a program to assist physicians and surgeons in identifying dead veterans in the absence of liquid body ooze running down the hall.
AFGE has filed formal mid term negotiation demands with VA, arguing that forcing the brotherhood to identify vets as “human” violates 17 provissions of their contract…
AFGE and Rand Corp. concur that it’s so easy to confuse “non-dues-paying humans” with “non-humans” and “humans”. VA affirms that all kinks will be ironed out before VA proceeds with sex reassignment surgeries and complying with POTUS’s “No Piece Left Behind” agenda.
@Dennis,
So now the AFGE doesn’t want veterans to be classified as “human”! WTF OVER! Maybe the time has come to show the VA, and the AFGE, just how “human” we really are!
______________________
On a side note;
The ‘House’ has demanded Obama “Quit the Iran Deal!”
The Dems are arguing that Iran has not tried to make nuclear weapons, (YET)!
Whereas, the Republicans and some Democrats have stated “…Iran was on a path to achieve nuclear weapons in a few years!”
Therefore, these arguments, by some democrats, is baseless.
pendejo va deathcare is a federal rico crime racket run buy AFGE UNION CONTRACTS VETS SCREWED AFIN VA BUDGET FOR 207 182 BILLON %$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ NOW VETS JUST GO BACK TO YOUR JACK DANIELS @ COLD BREWS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What can one expect from states, such as California and Oregon, run by the likes of Pelosi and other “left wing nut democrats”!
As namnibor has pointed out. These states have the most stringent of rules and regulations.
I agree, just Where did these “WWII ingrates” receive the permission to take what wasn’t theirs to take? Were any of the deaths suspicious? Who gave the orders? What other “experiments” were performed by these universities and VA butchers, which broke many laws?
The only thing we know for fact, is the “Where” it was happening. What about the “WHO”, (people’s names), was involved? Shouldn’t they be held accountable for their ‘misdeeds’?
My mind goes right to those liquefied veteran corpses in body bags in the Chicago VAMC, nearby the very *research labs*…makes me suspect this story has much more to it. This should be an FBI/DOJ and Congressional Investigation because of the very Health & Human Services (HHS) involvement as well as the VA and a University that accepts Federal and State $$$$. This would be a slurry of depth charges around any other medical institution such as the Mayo Clinic, but because of the VA’s more than likely redefining what a corpse actually is, as not actually human if there’s no heartbeat…is bull shit.
Do the VA Suicide Crisis Lines have side duties collecting/harvesting veteran organs and reason they cannot answer all phone calls? Yes, ridiculous, but this IS the VA. Damn! WTF!
Going for a walk down hill to stream to chill out. Rant Out.
The VA sure is quick to point the finger at another agency not complying in order to puff the VA up and make the unwitting think the VA is always taking the higher road…NOT! That statement of why they cannot tell the violated Vets was like trying to swim through cottage cheese. Bull Shit VA. The writer Robin Cook could not even come up with these schemes and you cannot convince me for one minute the University had no idea what they were doing was ethically wrong because the VA and University Medical Centers are the very definition of deadly bedfellows of research and practice on Veterans. Bull Shit VA. California also happens to be one of the most regulated states on everything….Bull Shit VA.
I actually wonder how many of these kidneys came from elderly Vets in VA Nursing Homes under mysterious death circumstances….or even right out of the not-so-intensive-care-unit…just like a Robin Cook and Stephen King collaborated novel with a good dose of WW2 Nazi Human Rights Violations. You cannot make this shit up. Bull Shit VA.
Outside Third World Medicine this again is called gross malpractice and a slew of human rights violations. Bull Shit VA. Drain the swamp!