second amendment

Ex-Generals Use Veteran Suicide Hysteria To Oppose Second Amendment Bill

second amendment

Retired Army Gen. Davit Petraeus and other retired generals oppose new legislation protecting some veterans’ second amendment rights.

Fourteen ex-generals wrote to Congress opposing the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. The general basis for their argument was that veterans precluded from gun ownership under VA’s fiduciary program would commit suicide if the law was passed.

The letter was presented on letterhead for their organization called Veterans Coalition For Common Sense.

Presently, VA automatically deems veterans who need assistance managing their VA benefits as also being “mentally defective” without a magistrate or judicial ruling on the matter – – which is required for civilians, just not veterans.

These veterans are placed into the VA Fiduciary Program. A fiduciary is appointed to then manage the finances of these same veterans.

About The Guns

The FBI then teamed up with VA to create a memorandum of understanding (MOU). That MOU forced VA to submit the names of veterans in the Fiduciary Program to the FBI for placement onto the registry wherein they would no longer be able to purchase guns under the Brady Act.

Meanwhile, similarly situated non-veterans would be allowed to own guns and buy guns up until they are brought into court and deemed “mentally defective” by a judge.

Veterans must instead rely on a VA non-lawyer, non-doctor to provide fair adjudication of the medical facts and laws impacting their right to bear arms. Keep in mind, there is a big difference between being “mentally defective” and being unable to balance a checkbook.

Sound like the program has all the makings of a kangaroo court?

New Gun Legislation

New legislation from Congress supports gun ownership for veterans unable to balance a checkbook. Veterans who are mentally defective will still be precluded from gun ownership so long as a judge agrees.

Numerous ex-generals oppose the legislation calling it “irresponsible and dangerous.” In support of their argument, these same generals base the premise of their argument solely on suicide hysteria implicitly asserting veterans unable to manage a checkbook are more likely to be unstable and suicidal than other Americans without evidence:

“The bill you are debating comes at a time when an average of 20 veterans commit suicide each day, two-thirds of whom do so by using a firearm. We know that non-deployed veterans are at a 61 percent higher risk of suicide compared to the American civilian population, and deployed veterans are at a 41 percent higher risk,” they wrote. “When vulnerable veterans have access to firearms, they can do harm not only to themselves but also to family members and loved ones. The impact of these tragedies is felt in communities across our nation.”

Broken down, these bags of hot are arguing:

  1. Some veterans should lose their right to bear arms because other veterans commit suicide
  2. Veterans unable to manage their checking account are more likely to commit suicide than other Americans
  3. Americans still care about a bunch of ex-generals think after leading us into the longest wars in our country’s history without solid basis for the wars

Now, where is the evidence? Is it next to the Iraqi “yellow cake”?

What about studies supporting this position?

Or are we merely reading about a bunch of has-beens hypothesizing about things not supported by evidence?

I discussed this yesterday and thought the pushback from the generals was worth noting.

First, veterans should have constitutional rights that are the same as other Americans, and certainly not fewer rights.

State courts must conclude the American is “mentally defective” before revoking a person’s right to own a firearm. Veterans may not be “mentally defective” but merely unable to manage their checkbook, but their constitutional right to bear arms will be revoked.

Second, these disconnected generals are also assuming veterans who struggle managing their finances are unstable and thusly the gun ownership ban is appropriate.Where is the evidence or studies that support these claims?

Where is the evidence or studies that support these claims?

Oh, they are probably in a pile next to the studies telling us Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

The legislation forces VA to take the veteran to court to prove they are “mentally defective” before revoking their constitutional right to bear arms. This seems fair to me.

I agree that “mentally defective” people should avoid gun ownership.

But if managing one’s finances is the measure for owning a gun, then all of Wall Street should be precluded from gun ownership after 2008. So should Congress.And what about ever VA executive unable to manage their budgets?

And what about ever VA executive unable to manage their budgets?

As for the generals, it sounds like these guys still think the hot air they espouse should trump the rights of former servicemembers.

At the end of the day, these generals are implicitly saying veterans deserve few rights, and less due process, than the civilians they protected while at war.

Perhaps these generals need a wake-up call?

List Of Generals

Here is the list of generals, and I would be curious to hear your feedback if any readers are familiar with them:

  1. Admiral Thad Allen, USCG (Ret.)
  2. General Peter W. Chiarelli, USA (Ret.)
  3. General Wesley Clark, USA (Ret.)
  4. General Michael V. Hayden, USA (Ret.)
  5. General James T. Hill, USA (Ret.)
  6. General Stanley A. McChrystal, USA (Ret.)
  7. Admiral Eric T. Olson, USN (Ret.)
  8. General David H. Petraeus, USA (Ret.)
  9. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, USA (Ret.)
  10. Lieutenant General Russel Honoré, USA (Ret.)
  11. Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy, USA (Ret.)
  12. Lieutenant General Norman R. Seip, USAF (Ret.)
  13. Rear Admiral James “Jamie” A. Barnett, USN (Ret.)
  14. Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney, USMC (Ret.)

Ex-Generals Letter Opposing Gun Rights

Here is the content of the letter:

As dedicated service members and members of the Veterans Coalition for Common Sense, we write to you today to express our grave concerns with legislation being considered by Congress, the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. This proposal would put America’s veterans who need our support the most in harm’s way by providing them with easy access to firearms. Instead of passing this irresponsible and dangerous legislation, Congress should instead do more to guarantee that all veterans have access to world-class medical and counseling services. We urge you to oppose this bill.

Our nation is facing a devastating epidemic of veteran suicide. The bill you are debating comes at a time when an average of 20 veterans commit suicide each day, two-thirds of whom do so by using a firearm. We know that non-deployed veterans are at a 61 percent higher risk of suicide compared to the American civilian population, and deployed veterans are at a 41 percent higher risk. Firearms are the most lethal means when it comes to suicide, resulting in death nine out of ten times. When vulnerable veterans have access to firearms, they can do harm not only to themselves but also to family members and loved ones. The impact of these tragedies is felt in communities across our nation.  

Last week, we were pleased to hear Secretary of Veterans Affairs (VA) David Shulkin announce his intent to provide urgent mental health care services to veterans with other-than-honorable discharges. This is a step in the right direction. Over 22,000 soldiers in the Army alone have received these bad paper discharges since 2009 due to mental health conditions, and they are among the ones who most need access to comprehensive mental health services. 

But they are not the only ones. In 2008, President Bush signed a law requiring all federal agencies to submit the names of individuals who are legally prohibited from possessing guns to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Since then, the VA has submitted over 174,000 names of servicemen and women who require a fiduciary to manage their benefits and have been determined through clear and convincing evidence to meet the federal standard for gun prohibition. Of these 174,000, 19,000 are individuals that suffer from schizophrenia and another 15,000 have severe PTSD.

For these individuals, possession of a firearm could be fatal. The Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act would put at risk the safety of these veterans and our communities by changing the standard for gun prohibition, so the VA’s determinations would no longer stop a veteran from obtaining a gun. Instead, the names of veterans already in the background check system would be erased, putting them at much greater risk of self-harm. This would be irresponsible, dangerous, and life threatening to those who need access to care, not weapons.

Just last year, Congress worked to ensure that all veterans have appropriate due process protections in place through the 21st Century Cures Act. This codified existing practice and guaranteed that individuals who disagree with their final adjudication have the ability to appeal this determination.  

We appreciate your service to your country in the United States Congress, and look forward to working with you to support and protect our men and women in uniform and their communities. In doing so, we urge you to oppose the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. Thank you for your consideration.

What do you think? Should we trust these guys are are they nothing more than has-been windbags?

I noticed the letter fixated on two examples, veterans with severe PTSD and those with schizophrenia. But keep in mind, over 174,000 veterans are on the list. Of that, only a fraction, less than 20%, fall into the categories singled out above.

What about the other veterans? Where is the full breakdown?

We need to have a deeper dialogue on this to ensure no veterans in that 174,000 list are improperly being deprived of any constitutional right.

Keep in mind, once in the Fiduciary Program, these same veterans are also limited in how they can retain counsel, even with their own money.

So how will those improperly denied their rights be able to get representation under the present scheme?


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  1. Damn, Everyone on here has told “Dion” more than I ever could. So, all I can say to that asswipe is:
    “Have a Blessed Day Fuckin’ Union Stooge!”
    One day you’ll wake up and say to yourself, “Fuck, was I ever so stupid to attack veterans on a veterans website!”

  2. are you are corporate privatizing guy? only the govt that is not beholden to a CEO and stock holders can take care of veterans…..It just needs to be done better…….please, veterans on this board don’t be fooled by privatizers they just want to make money for their corporate donors……please wake up. don’t let the alt right get into you head and try to get you to think the private business can do it better. this is just a union busting, privitizing propganda website….DO NOT BELIEVE IT. and Mr. Krause I am a veteran of the Persian Gulf War and I find it highly offensive that you are misleading these veterans this way. You should be ashamed of yourself for not being straight forward with your agenda…..some of these veterans are dependent on the old timers to steer them straight and you are not….shameful.

    1. @dion: Wholly shit, where do I even begin with that rant of yours. First, if the VA didn’t treat veterans like they weren’t pieces of shit on some union assholes shoe, This blog probably wouldn’t even exist. Second, care to guess how many quack fucking doctors the VA employ’s? Wanna know why there is such a huge backlog in claim appeals? Look no further than your union quack fucking doctors. Would you like to know how corrupt of an organization the VA really is? You should be ashamed of yourself coming on this blog, and disrespecting veterans, yes that is right, your disrespecting disabled veterans that have payed a pretty hight price for their service only to be screwed the fuck over by inconsiderate, non caring, apparently deaf pcp’s, because they sure don’t know how the fuck to listen to their patients. And the downright disrespectful, condescending attitudes of your fellow workers. It is YOU that should be ashamed son, now Ben, and not any veteran on this site. I call you son cause your so bright, you shine all day and sparkle all night. You have insulted my fellow veterans, and I hold all of these men in high regards, an attack on one is an attack on all of us. In that respect, with all due respect………….go fuck yourself.

      1. Bingo…. you win cj. That pup doesn’t quite yet have a full grasp of reality or what these unions have become in our country.

      2. @T: Thank you T. These hacks piss me off when they attack the people on this site. I think of all of you as family, and I respect every one of you. Them? not so much.

    2. @dion: And by the way you may not beholden to a corporate ceo, but you sure the fuck are beholden to one of the most corrupt fucking union to ever exist, the AFGE, Want a better health care system for veterans? Then get rid of the AFGE. Who are you beholden to? the veterans? or the AFGE? Go stick your head up Little Cox’s ass. One more thing, are you at work, using a VA computer to troll the Internet, instead of doing your job?

    3. dion, how much are you being paid or are you a VA activist?

      I used to be a strong union man and at times union officer in various capacities. That ended back in the eighties when I woke up and seen all the changes and corruption going on. Try taking on corrupt unions plus corrupt state, federal, and local agencies/entities/people/companies, and you will see some truth. Also when your entire court brief is just “lost” you’ll understand more when there is nothing to be done about it but be concerned for your own safety among all the corrupt filth encompassing us.

      If you can’t see the communist agenda in many unions today especially under Trumka’s AFL-CIO then something is wrong. Why did some unions break off from them? Don’t know about that? While he stands up openly supporting VA unions to wanting to unionize the world’s workers with this globalist corrupt trash that can’t be fired or dealt with properly. While vets and others die off and much goes the way societies short memory flush…. something is fishy.

      When Hollywood, the Communist Party, Eugene V. Debbs communist Society (still strong in Indiana and in every college here), and cultural Marxist supporters support all corrupt union activities including the VA …. then that alone should tell you something.

      I swore I would never work in a union shop again, and didn’t. Good money and pay for nothing is everything. Or, being in some politically protected corrupt clique. Easy too since my name was black-listed among the corrupt unions and their corporate buddies around here because I don’t take bribes, pay-offs, perks, threats, and don’t like kissing ass, or bowing to trash. I made it to old age and with more dignity and far better constitution/morals/feel good, that some local union could provide for me in a work place. And I would never work for the VA or around such people as that either, period. I would rather starve or steal pic-a-nic baskets Boo Boo.

      Hmmm how old do we have to be to be considered as “old timers?”

      1. Very well said T, I wish I could write like that. You nailed it. I was a union member as well, best thing I ever did was walk into the union hall and hand them my card. They said nobody has ever done that before, I said I doubt that, and walked out.

    4. @Dion-

      Contrary to your pseudo ASSessment, Veterans are very diverse in thinking very independent and fiercely so…we are NOT “Group Think” sheeple as Veteran, nor does Benjamin Krause dictate how anyone thinks, he helps bring-out discussion through this blog and true Critical Thinking amongst we Veterans and Spouses/Survivors out in the wild actually enduring the VA’s meat grinder.

      I find you offensive in your projected ASSumptions about Veterans, because we Vets are way smarter than people generally give us credit for.

      Swamp Gas ASS.


    5. Dion, I too am a veteran of the Persian Gulf War. Ben is not misleading anyone.

      Union busting? Hell yes! If you hung around this web site for any length of time, you would find out a good many of the VAs problems are because of unaccountable union thugs.

      Take Kevin Harris from Louisiana who beat a veteran to death at the VA. The union thugs protected him, got him a week off to recover from beating that old veteran until the local coroner brought charges. The union continued to protect him by keeping him suspended with pay while delaying his trial. That was over 2 years ago, and he still has not been tried for his crime.
      It was union thugs who were too lazy to move a dead veteran, or even check up on why his body wasn’t moved, so he was left in a shower over more than one shift.

      It was union employees in Chicago that couldn’t do their fucking jobs in a timely manner, so veterans bodies were left in the morgue long enough to liquefy.

      Do a search on this site over the armed robber, VA employee in Peurto RICO who kept her job, even while in jail because of union protection.

      Check out the post here of the union protected employees at the Tomah VA playing a human version of Hungry Hippos while on work time. They thought this was a better idea than improving their VA to better care for veterans after veterans were killed at that shithole.

      Do a search on Charles Ingram. He was the vet who went to the VA for help, was turned away likely by some union protected nitwit, so Charles went out onto their front lawn, lit himself on fire and burned himself to death.

      Before you come on here sniveling about these poor union employees at the VA, educate yourself.

      As for privatizing? Well, with the hundreds of billions spent by the VA over many years, and the issues I mention above happening just in the past 5 years, what the hell have we got to lose?

      Other than indifference, incompetence, cruelty, incompassionate and downright dangerous care by those poor little union hacks?

  3. They should be looking to disarm the Generals, Anyone with a hint of a conscious would normally be “weighed” with the blood on (their) hands thru their command decisions. But, Without ANY Doubt, (Having it done) back at the Comm CTR with a coffee insulates them to basically a game of chess. as opposed to being in the front, the tip of the spear, Kicking doors where the metal meets the meat.
    But too, In their defense, I personally wouldn`t want to have the job of looking an 18 yr old kid in the eyes & Send him/her to their very possible or likely death.
    Only Dianne Feinstein thinks that PTSD Is “An Iraq war phenomenon”. You don`t need a gun to kill yourself. MAYBE, sending these Men & Women back & Back & Back again has “Something” To do with it. One tour was more than plenty for myself. And I Salute From my Heart these individuals spending their youth & FAR Beyond, Like today. I truly don`t see how they do it.
    One suicide is too damn many. WWI-II, Korea, Vietnam to date vets have been committing suicide AND Murder for 100+ yrs, As long as you have war, There will be PTSD & Suicide, Ruined lives, Maimed Bodies & Broken Minds and It`s been that way probably since Cain Slew Able, Sen, Feinstein. But, You still won`t EVER get me to relinquish MY Sidearm……..Alive. I`ll try to play by the rules, As long as they make sense But taking my guns will end bloody & YES it will surely be mine. I`m old & Shakey But just “Handing it over” is nonnegotiable. Law be damned. God gave me the Right & Duty To defend myself, When he blew Life into my nostrils at my first breath to my last.

    1. @LP: A good site to check out, “” I found out about Jay Sekulow, when I saw a story about he defended a soldier who kicked the shit out an Afghan police chief, that laughed about sexually abusing a young boy. He also defended another soldier for giving classified information to his men out on a mission to save their lives.
      A good source of news that you won’t see anywhere else.

  4. ISIS boils people to death in vats of tar. It crucifies and beheads kids.

    It makes my blood boil. It makes my heart ache. But we can do something about it.

    82% of the Christian population of Iraq has been devastated. Two-thirds of Syria’s Christians have been slaughtered or displaced.

    If we don’t act, more Christians will die. It’s our Christian duty – our legal obligation – to defend them.

    We’re aggressively expanding our largest legal advocacy effort in defense of Christians facing genocide. Less than 24 hours ago, we made a critical oral intervention directly at the U.N., demanding action to 1) stop the genocide and 2) protect Christians. By J. Sekulov.

    I think the Generals have more dire issues to advocate for. Issues they had part in. Obama had part in. Two things should be taken down. This letter, and any Picture of Obama in any federal facility.

  5. I have nothing to add to this conversation that hasn’t already been covered by the rest of you, with the exception of “Tommy Distefano”. Once again I find myself in the presence of greatness.

  6. In thinking about this group, it appears as if their concern for veteran suicide suddenly became important around the time Congress decided to affirm the rights of we veterans. Where was this group before when 22 per day were killing themselves? Where are they in being Veterans Coalescing for Common Sense around fixing the VA? Where were they when veterans were ignored and put on fraudulent wait lists?

    Now, when Congress is looking at legislation to protect veterans from the VA trampling our rights they are suddenly concerned for veterans?

    If you look at this June 2016 press release on creation of this group, why is their concern for veteran suicide 3rd on their list? Why would it not be first if they were truly as concerned as they claim?


    Why hide an agenda behind another name? Common sense would suggest veterans should get timely care, not setting themselves on fire outside a VA because they were turned away. What about laws for fire control? Or match or Zippo control? Common sense suggests veterans should not be turned away from crisis mental health care, but it happens, and veterans are killing themselves in the parking lots of VA hospitals. Where is the concern for that?

    If you read the news on their page about this law, it claims a process does not exist for veterans to be declared mentally incompetent in a court of law, which is a blatant lie. Does that mean non-veterans also do cannot be declared mentally incompetent in a court?


    I can understand Giffords intention of preventing mass shootings, but when was the last time a veteran committed such a shooting in this country? If Giffords and this group of nitwits had common sense, they would be fighting against the ACLU who supports this legislation…and also is the main reason why those who HAVE committed mass shootings in this country have been able to do so. The ACLU’s activities have made it difficult for those who ARE mentally incompetent to actually be declared mentally incompetent by a judge, and being appropriately banned from owning a gun under existing law.

    Those who have committed those mass shootings are found to have all kinds of rights protecting them, while the rights of veterans can be easily ripped away by simply asking who pays their bills.

    1. @91Veteran-

      Great background research you did on this newly formed troupe de force that have likely even hijacked the Gifford Family in quest for “names” or “brand” to push their agenda…and as much respect and empathy for what the Gifford Family has and still endures, shame on this stack of military Generals prostituting their uniforms around for whomever will help them protect the cookie jar.

      Veterans Suicide #3 on their list….H-m-m-m-m, that sure does not seem like prioritizing Veteran Suicide to me.
      Again, I wonder how many of those hacks and others like them have been appointed as the Fiduciary for several Veterans?
      Anyway, thanks for looking-up that info and sharing it on the “Save The VA Season 2: The Generals”. 🙂

      1. HA! Yeah that title is appropriate. As for the Giffords family being hijacked…that is not the case. They have been pushing gun control since some time after Gabby was shot. Again, I understand the intention of common sense gun control, but what they both are pushing is not common sense gun laws, but gun confiscation at any cost. If you look at what they advocate, and the groups they are aligned with, it is the total banning of guns from those who follow the law. As is typical, these groups often say nothing of the gun crime in Chicago.

        In my opinion, those flag rank officers did more damage to this country than mistreated veterans committing suicide have in the entire history of this country.

        It’s just disgusting to me when I know their oath is the same I took, yet they have no problem whatsoever proposing something that completely disregards that oath in so many ways.

        I cannot believe they are so clueless that they believe the VA carefully adjudicates every one of those 174000 veterans before adding their name to a list. The history of the VA being able to fuck up a soup sammich suggests otherwise.

      2. @91Veteran- “[If you look at what they advocate, and the groups they are aligned with, it is the total banning of guns from those who follow the law. As is typical, these groups often say nothing of the gun crime in Chicago.]”

        Yeah, and the hypocrisy steepens when these same libtards will exclaim that Chicago is a “gun-free zone”…so it’s very easy pickin’s for the thugs in Chicago to go after their prey in broad daylight. The only ones that have the guns are the thugs…in the very city of Chicago proper, where Obama is having his legacy library built…but certainly not living in the city of flying lead.
        Soon, Lake Michigan will have a lead problem. Thanks libtards!

        Yeah, their no guns at all at any costs is actually projection of anger, and justified anger, but not at the price of making it easier for the very thugs to do it again. People have lost all semblance of common sense.

        Veteran Suicide has now been effectively hijacked by the jackasses. 🙂

  7. One of my local news stations always covers Veterans issues and the VA, not just local but far-reaching across USA, but interestingly, along the topic of this week’s articles here on Ben’s blog, *not once* has my local news covered *one* Veteran Suicide outside a VAMC.

    The only thing remotely close was last Fall when I Veteran called the VA’s Suicide Hotline and the VA hack woman on other end claimed the Veteran said “concerning words”, and so she dispatched the local Police and SWAT Team, who caused the confrontational situation, Veteran armed himself, because after all, his wife and two kids were right there with him in his home, and he was shot **7 TIMES** dead, suicide by cops and the VA by proxy, in front of his wife and kids.
    That was just South of my city, so it was a blurp on the news then gone.

    Why is the VA so afraid to tell the truth? Too many morning stairmaster accidents by Isaacson? 🙂

  8. While on words, “suicidal Hysteria”, is that what it is? What could possibly cause a hysteria? Has to be something, or someone these suicides have in common. It’s not guns. @Ben; Couldn’t there be a class action suit against the Congress? This 2nd amendment should not be weakend just because the VA is trying to cover their asses. Does bankruptsy count? Back in 1929, people jumped out high buildings. They didn’t ban investers from high buildings. Why aren’t we on medical and mental congfessional hearings? Where I am at, there’s been lots of lip service.

  9. GENERALs please leave the 2nd Amend. Of the Constitution you swore to defend. Our forefathers wrote them we don’t need you or any judge to rewrite them. Suicide is a mental health and family problem now a law issue. – cpwomer

  10. @Crazy elf- Just saw on national news that today down in Florida at a VA Hospital they still had not placed a picture of Pres. Trump up so some Veterans made large prints and framed as well as VA Sec. Shulkin picture…the fucking VA took them down because “they were not OFFICIAL portraits/photos”….which is *code* for a couple possible things:
    1) The AFGE Union and the VA have a Contract to make someone at the VA oodles of $$$ on “official photos”.
    2) They were being butthurt snowflakes in still not recognizing Pres. Trump by NOT having that required photo up surely by now.

    How’s that for the VA being “Vet-centric”? I am paraphrasing, but the VA down in Florida said Veterans were NOT permitted to place anything on THEIR walls….the Veterans at that VA in their cars in parking lot interviewed said…”This is OUR VA, not the VA’s and Vets should be able to place anything they want on these walls because IT’s OUR HOSPITAL…” (paraphrased, but you get the point)

    1. Haven’t seen it yet, namnibor.
      Like I’ve been told before by friends in other states, what’s on their TVs isn’t played elsewhere!
      Gotta feeling we’re not going to see it here unless it’s on the national news (cable or satellite)!

      1. @Crazy elf and ALL:
        Here you go: Breaking News!
        Controversy over President Trump’s photo at VA Medical Center


      2. portraits have been removed because they have not been authenticated and portraits on display at the VA need to come from the central office. WHAT A BULLSHIT EXCUSE

      3. “[There was nothing on the wall and it was disrespectful to a lot of veterans. Proud of the fact the local vet community got it done. Walked in there, we made it happen,” said Beau Brumfield, a veteran who helped get the photos displayed.

        But their accomplishment didn’t last long. Within hours, management at the VA took down the pictures.

        “Ridiculous! He’s our president. His picture deserves to go up and should go up,” said Ron Bailey, a veteran from Palm Beach Gardens CBS12 spoke with as he drove away from the VA.

        I think whatever the veterans want posted they should be allowed to have posted. It’s their hospital,” said Lloyd Wolford, a veteran from Pennsylvania.

        The reason? Management says they could not authenticate the photos and they have to follow protocol.

        “You do what you’re supposed to do and do what you gotta do. If they’re a bunch of bums, get rid of them. You can put that on TV,” said Joseph Nappi, a veteran from Boynton Beach.

        A VA spokeswoman says they’re trying to get official portraits that can be displayed on the wall.

        Congressman Brian Mast released this statement Tuesday night:

        Especially after so many veterans contacted me about this issue, it is disappointing to see resistance from the VA over hanging the portrait of both the Commander in Chief as well as the Secretary of the VA.]”


      4. Here’s the first part of that article…the reason I cut/pasted article is because the news website had way too much spam advertising pop-ups and wanted to save you all the pain of that:

        Just place this on top of the bottom half I posted erroneously above:

        Medical Center

        AA   

        SUBURBAN WEST PALM BEACH (CBS12) — A presidential picture at the West Palm Beach VA Medical Center is M.I.A.

        Local veterans turned to a Florida congressman to get the picture hung Tuesday, but as it turns out it didn’t stay up very long.

        Some veterans feel they’ve fought for their country. They feel they shouldn’t have to fight the VA over something like this.

        For veterans like Walter Korabiak, a Vietnam vet from South Florida, the matter seems simple.

        President Donald Trump’s photo deserves to be in the lobby of the VA Medical Center.

        “It should be there. Every other president was there wasn’t it? Something’s wrong,” Korabiak said.

        Nearly two months into Trump’s presidency, some local vets are growing tired of looking at empty walls so they turned to fellow veteran and Congressman Brian Mast.

        The Congressman brought in a picture of President Trump and the new VA Secretary and put them up this afternoon…]”

      5. Wouldn’t it be interesting if one day when Trump was down at Mar-A-Lago that he went to visit that VA and said, yes, I can say that is a picture of me so I guess you can say it’s authentic?

    2. namnibor, my wife just sent the article, (concerning the portraits), off to President Trump, his son ERIC and others to inform them of this “egregious incident”!
      Whether anything comes of it remains a ?????!
      I wonder how that new Congressman of West Palm Beach, Fl, who served in the military, feels about the VHA management removing the portraits? I also wonder how he feels about VHA management saying the “Cellphone video was illegal?”
      It’s sad to see anyone so disrespected! It really pisses me off the VHA management would be this way!
      Only, think on this—
      That VHA has how much taxpayers monies they can use for “ART”!?!?!

      To those who think President Trump isn’t doing anything for veterans.
      This new executive order, mandating they have “…180 days…” to show how they spend taxpayers monies, is FOR ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES!
      The video I, and namnibor gave the direct link to, specifically states ALL GOVERNMENT AGENCIES!
      The VA’s nationwide are government agencies. Therefore, they have to submit an audit on their expenditures!

      Here’s something else to ponder.
      “SHITHEAD SHUMMER” (Dumbocrap), yep, another Shithead, is threatening to shutdown the government by the end of April. His “excuses” are – the wall, defunding Planned Parenthood and something else.
      It’s kinda strange, because SHUMMER “…voted FOR the barrier fence…” during Bush’s administration.
      Planned Parenthood only does abortions. Even “Late term abortions!” Something President Trump and many women’s groups are against.

      Now, he’s planning this “Shutdown” in late April, because the “Appropriation Bill” is due by then! He said if these things are in the bill, the Democrats and some Republicans will shut down the government!
      In the article I read, some are saying “GOOD! Then they can’t do any more harm to our Republic!”
      The Democrats, if successful, are going to put the blame on President Trump.
      I guess their running out of ideas!

  11. I forget to add. Look at the Twitter timeline for Americans for Responsible Solutions at @resp_solutions. Nothing more than left wing, anti-gun activism.

  12. Nothing pisses me off more than some jackass that once wore a uniform thinking that gives them the right to push a political agenda, and that is EXACTLY what this is.

    You talk about studies Ben. Before these facists get too far along at removing the rights of their fellow Americans, one would think they would spell out exactly how a veteran is determined to need a fiduciary.

    What exact steps does the VA take?

    Is there any regard to those veterans who appear to be unable to manage money simply because the VA is either denying proper compensation for their disability? Or somehow screwing with that diasability?

    So a VA bureaucrat can screw up a veterans disability which causes the veteran to become homeless, so then the VA determines they cannot handle their own finances since they couldn’t pay their rent?

    So the VA and Choice cannot pay their fucking bills on time so the bill is turned over to collections, and then the VA determines the vet cannot handle their finances?

    Look behind the current on this crap. The group actually behind this is not the “Veterans Coalition for Common Sense”. That is nothing more than a flag waving front group. The group behind this is a group named Americans for Responsible Solutions. A group created by Capt. Kelly and Gabby Giffords with an agenda to push gun control.

    I can guess Petreaus is a part of this to rehab his reputation after being caught mishandling classified material, and fucking the help.

    Others involved are more left wing activists that once wore a uniform such as Allen, Clark and Kennedy. Search on their names and see what news articles comes up on each of them about 5 or more years ago.

    There is NO clear and convincing evidence that is shown anywhere that any kind of legal or formal process is followed by the VA in forcing a fiduciary on a vet, and I defy these hacks to produce it.

    I did see Ben you caught how they are using the numbers. 34000 with severe PTSD or schizophrenia. Nice way to smear any veteran, particularly those who have been wrongly forced into the VAs fiduciary program.

    That still leaves 140000 that are unclear, but hey! Who cares if 140000 veterans rights are ripped away when it comes to pushing an agenda.

    And I believe that number is very low.

    I truly hate those who put on a show at one time swearing an oath who find it useful at some point to ignore that oath because they have another agenda.

  13. Hey, y’all, check this video out from;
    “Not Fake News”
    dated: 13 March 2017

    BREAKING: President Trump Just Signed A New Order That Will Completely DRAIN THE SWAMP!”

    Y’all gotta watch this video, please!

    From the video, The agencies have; quote; “…180 days to submit a plan to end wasteful spending or risk being closed down!”
    Maybe this is the “reason” behind “WHY” a few VHA employees were ‘badmouthing’ the incompetence of their leadership yesterday, when my wife and I were at the VHA in Orlando.
    What’s interesting about this is, there’s a video, (about 6 minutes long), by President Trump within this video.
    It’s President Trump’s “first Cabinet Meeting!”
    Ya gotta check it out!

    1. Here’s the direct link to ^ video: “”

      1. Hey, namnibor – I got a feeling there’s a lot of government employees right now shittin’ their pants, wondering “IF” their “(useless) job description” will go “bye-bye!”
        You know, like the ones just standing around at VHA’s and VBA’s nationwide not doing anything most of the day!
        I know those at the VHA in Orlando weren’t very happy about their ‘Leadership’!

      2. @Crazy elf , @Namnibor – Until the VA is specifically mentioned that this Federal Agency is going to be reorganized and reformed, I’m not holding my breath. If POTUS implements an auditing of the VA and a dam good house cleaning, then the leaders of the VA, VHA, and VBA’s would already be scrambling, crying, and complaining, verified by MSM news articles.

        There are way too many leakers that have access to Trump’s moves. Word would already be out into the Press, and the American public would know about it. I’m not going to jump with glee, until I specifically hear Trump say, “and the VA is going to be cleaned up and audited too. Our Veterans have been hurting for too long.”

        I hope that I’m wrong, but I’ve been waiting to dam long for help in which I’ve should have already received. Trust factor is still low. And, I’m not apologizing for something that is happening in real time. When you put faith into our Government leaders, you’ll get hurt most of the time because the leaders have to take care of other leaders in order to get something done. Somebody will be getting paid off at the expense of Veteran’s lives.

        I hope that I’m wrong. The word has been out about the VA for a long time, and everyone putters around like the lives of Veterans mean shit. BULLSHIT !!! I’ll believe it when I see, and I know that I’m not the only one that feels this way. Enough talk, more action with resolutions.

  14. Should we trust these guys are are they nothing more than has-been windbags?

    That is a good question

    Or should we trust the useless opinion of the “Never-was” valiant Vocational Rehabilitation Warrior?

    You are a Cuck in wolf’s clothing.

    Your whole existence is based upon fighting the Evil VR&E Empire. You are a valorous man encouraging people to support your business that encourages people to be reliant on the government and suck dry everything they can from the VA since they are “entitled” to it after 4 years of service shoveling shit at Ft. Polk.

    1. ~~~~GURGGLE~~~~ Rotten Cabbage? Melting Snowflake? VSO Piggy? Swamp Gas all the same.

      1. Yea, namnibor – We definitely got “Rotten Cabbage Smell” permeating among disabled veterans this afternoon.
        This ain’t the time or blog to be a fuckin’ TROLL!

    2. A couple things here, Tommy. Off the cuff, it sounds like you are a bitter man who was unsuccessful advocating for himself against VA. Folks that say things like you did above generally have that bitter, VA screwed me even though I am a brave combat veteran, attitude in their back-pocket somewhere.

      There are many ways a person can be “valiant,” and it sounds like you are confused about what the word means. Valiant simply means a person who possesses or shows courage or determination. I prosecuted my claim against VA for disability and VRE benefits and won both after 15 years of fighting to become an attorney – – that is a person who gets paid to represent others for legal matters. I obviously expect to get paid for doing what I do, no different than an engineer, a doctor, or a cable guy. People should get paid for the work they do. AND, most importantly, veterans should get every penny they were promised before entering the military once they separate from the military. PERIOD. It sounds like you have a real problem with the latter.

      I will let me readers and clients decide if I am valiant. I will also let my readers decide if you sound like a bitter man who believes VA should not provide the benefits veterans were promised.

      That aside, any news organization must earn money from somewhere to afford the costs of publication and costs of reporting. These websites and the time I spend planning / researching does not magically happen each day.

      NY Times does this. Fox News does this. does this. Or, should my veteran owned business not be entitled to earn money for helping others?

      In order to report on VA full time, a person doing the reporting must earn a living to eat, have a roof over their heads, and support themselves. Stop being bitter, Tommy.

      1. I really like the word “dauntless”. It’s a synonym of “valiant”, but “dauntless” just has more pizazz!! 🙂 (nobody doubts your valor nor dauntless fight to make the VA a better and safe place for Veterans, Ben)

    3. Hey, Tommy,
      I was at “Ft. Polk” (1969) as a drill instructor at the “Vietnam Village”!
      With what you just wrote about this blog today, I can guarantee you, you would still be “shoveling shit” there, if I had my way!

    4. @Tommy Distefano “Distant Tommy”- “come out from your hole, troll.” I smell something. It stay stanky like da wholesale fish market next to the pier. And, I don’t buy dat kine fish.

    5. @ Tommy Distefano, you have issues dude!!! You wreik of failure!!! Lame!!!! Get rid of the excess baggage you would feel better!!

  15. I suggest that all members Of Congress who were Draft-Dodgers be banned from owning weapons known as Firearms. That should extend to all Family members since they have the Coward gene.

    1. Yeah, like the draft dodgers Donald Trump Ted Nugent and Dick Cheney.

      Three hawks that never sacrificed a single thing for this country but still get the support of idiots scared of an enemy that does not exist.

      It has always been a Rich man’s war paid with the poor man’s blood.

      The real enemy controls everything you read, watch and think.

      Wake up

      1. Since it seems there are so many Draft-Dodgers in Congress it would be nice to have a list of them. Maybe since we’re at it put anyone who Failed to Register here in the United States for the Selective Service when they turned 18 be denied access to weapons since in fact they too are dodging, when Trump starts our next War. In the Second World War “War Profiteering ” was a Crime, unlike all the “No-Bid Contracts” giving away Tax Dollars in Iraq.

  16. So, these generals are the ones behind Veterans for common sense? Where have they been? Agree with nearly everyone on blog. I’m not giving up my lighter. I’ve known Veterans who said they were suicidal, just to get into the VA Hospital to have other issues dealt with. I thought the VA was supposed to get more friendly towards Veterans, what happened to that? Is that their answer to suicides? In lieu of decent medical and mental care? Common Sense? I don’t think so.

  17. I am suprised Petraus is allow to speak in public without McCains dick shoved up is ass.

    Maybe they are just changing positions.

    Did any of these general’s ever write as position paper against fighting a war because troop deaths could be prevented?

    In other words take this weapon and kill, ok you are done with you now, thanks for protecting America and we have decided you have no further rights.

    When you turn your life over to a master what would you expect?

    When you raise your right you are forever owned

  18. That is Dumb and lame ! If any one wanted to commit suicide by using a Gun, They can find one anywhere and there are hundreds of other ways they can do it.

    It Plain Nonsense.

    How can smart people be so Dumb ?

  19. I see the names Hayden and Petraeus on the same list and my Do Not Trust radar goes off. These are guys with decades in the Air Force and Army doing guest appearances. Betrayus leaves Iraq/Afghan as head of Mil Intel, and miraculously ends up heading the CIA while Hayden was head of CIA and NSA. We’re supposed to believe than Benjizzy was another sneak attack when CIA had a sizable detachment of ops a few miles away from the embassy. Beengassy, being Libya’s massive weapons depot with a convenient port. Arms that miraculously show up in Syria in everybody’s hands. We’re supposed to believe the drug addled NWO minion Clinton had a role or is otherwise culpable in this? We’re supposed to believe that Petraeus had to resign because he got caught getting some poon in Washington DC? Petraeus who is now a partner with Chertoff – x judge, x Homeland Security, and x Asst US Atty General, all during the Bush years of chipping away at the Bill of Rights? Great team. These are the NWO engineers of wars for power and profit. And they don’t want to water down a bill that essentially disallows ownership of guns by the mercenary minions they trained and deployed – when they become ill-defined “economically incompetent” – meaning broke. Meanwhile, the rest of the NWO Harvard and Yalies are chipping away at the economy so we’ll all be broke.

    I loves me a good conspiracy theory. What’s going on in plain sight in this country makes a John LeCarre novel look like a fucking kindergarden Dick and Jane book (even though LeCarre’s “The Honourable Schoolboy” had a remarkable amount of factual information about what was going on in Cambodia and Laos “toward the end”.

    In God We Trust, Everyone Else We Monitor Until We Back-Link the Pope

    But, I digress.

    1. Windguy,
      You said it straight.
      Our government, not all but a majority, have all but forgotten the oaths they took to “protect and serve” the American People through the Constitution and Bill of Rights!
      Nowadays it seems the corruption IS in plain sight. It’s as though they believe nothing can or will be done to them. I believe they might be correct.
      As I’ve said, Until President Trump gets a handle on all the corruption going on, he’ll never be able to accomplish what he promised during the campaign!
      No matter how hard he tries, they will block his every move!

  20. Since when are the Gods Of War suddenly concerned about which human is vaporized and which is not? Aren’t Generals the ones who give guns to people and tell them who to kill?

    Tell me please, what moral authority does even ONE general have to lecture about unwarranted death? I know who the fuck put them in charge of slaughter, but I want to know who the fuck put them in charge of saving lives? The last I checked, the saving of lives was not in a generals job description.

    They send these kids to war to kill and to be killed, to main and to be maimed, and then eject them out of the armed forces at the tip of a combat boot and give them a future of dumpster diving and hustling coins on the street corner – and then they send a letter expressing concern for the well being of the ones who did their killing and dying for them. They teach these vets to operate trillions of dollars of state of the art implements of war and death yet fail to teach them how to earn a living wage afterwards. They fail to wash the blood from their hands. They take young kids and use up their bodys, minds, and spirits and then spit them out like a wad of used Beach Nut tobacco onto the mean streets of America – a place that muggers, rapists, and murderers often concur with these generals that it is just better not to allow Americans to arm themselves…

    The pigs of war have spoken and their concern over the scattering of human brains is duly noted.

    1. Dennis, to show the kind of officer these people are, read Chiarelli’s wiki page. He was given a “Hero of Military Medicine” award for supposedly doing things for TBI and reducing the stigma of PTSD.

      Yet he signs on to a letter like this saying those same soldiers with PTSD are too dangerous to exercise their Constitutional rights.


      1. Yeah if that pampered general deserved that award, why were so many put out in bad paper …after…a combat tour? Or two? Or three?

  21. Also, I have been quite vocal on my disdain for Speaker of The House Paul Ryan…even before he was Speaker and if anyone remembers when he was part of the CBO (Congressional Budget Office), he and some female congress critter from Minnesota said, “Veterans have it too good”, (paraphrasing), and Ryan also was outspoken about Veterans collecting SSDI and VA Compensation…he also has ALWAYS wanted to shred Medicare and Medicaid.
    Nothing has changed. With the proposed ACA/Obamacare replacement, MANY vets that perhaps are on State Medicaid because they are too ill/disabled to work, and are waiting on a very LONG process attempting to get earned benefits from the VA.
    Medicaid is an important safety-net, and I have yet to hear of any talk of what to do to protect Veterans stuck waiting in the VA’s meat grinder.
    Wait for it…Ryan will attempt to screw with Veteran benefits…why? He’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing as well as that old Dinosaur Mitch McConnell….RETIRE ALREADY!!!!

    The only thing that actually surprised me is that Sen. John McCain was not in the mix pushing to keep Veterans from owning weapons and that VA Fiduciary Program.
    See, with McCain, if he’s not affected by something personally, or cannot gain from it, he drones-on elsewhere like Pres. trump’s tax returns…while Veterans are dying in his own State of Arizona and his fellow Veterans are seriously hurting….same for the other windbag joined at hip with McCain, Lyndsay Graham, ex-USAF……..not personally affect, as THEY do not USE THE VA.


    Rant Out…river walk time and maybe smash a few snowflakes on ground pretending they are General’s Stars. 🙂

    1. Michelle Bachman was the Minnesota congress critter along with Paul Ryan trying to strip Veteran’s benefits I was alluding to above.^

      1. namnibor, I remember what you said about Ryan. He is definitely a “wolf in sheep’s clothing!”
        Plus, many on the Utube videos are now calling the President Trump’s healthcare plan – “Ryancare”! Because it is keeping many of the ACA ‘s, “Obamacare”, troubling aspects of taxes and other things as well!
        If President Trump doesn’t get a handle on what Ryan and others are doing, we – the American Public – will be fucked AGAIN!

    Secondly, All four of the people, the letter was sent to, are either Dumpocraps or “RINO’S”!
    They ALL are doing their best to keep our President from doing his job!

    Do you think this “letter” is in response to the President’s “executive order”, signed recently, which is now requiring, by mandate, ALL government agencies to submit paperwork on “How they are spending taxpayers monies”? (I touched on this yesterday!)

    Could it be, as namnibor points out, the “fiduciary program”, due to that “executive order”, will be exposed to the “fraud, waste and abuse” in it?!
    Could it be, VA upper managements will be in a heap of trouble, once the truth comes out?!

    It was said by some on here, this blog “… shouldn’t be political…”! Well, with what we’re reading today, what the hell is it then *IF NOT POLITICS*?
    IS IT NOT POLITICAL, when Dumocrats use “dried up old farts” – who can’t win a fuckin’ war, spread bullshit?
    No wonder Morale is so low in all branches of service! Especially when “dried up old losers”, admit to the bullshit they pulled on our veterans!

    I have nothing but “pure distain” for every one of those ingrates. Signing that letter was, in my opinion, a slap in the face to every veteran out there!
    Every one of them should be ashamed!

    I gotta feeling we’re going to read lots of “RANTS” today!
    Mine is OVER, FOR NOW, until I can think of something else to say!

  23. May your fingers be twisted, cracked, broken, and snapped as you reach for those baked sweets in the cookie jar.

    1. They have conveyor belts directly from that Veteran Cookie Jar via the Taxpayers. Some go as far as mainlining the cookie jar via a PIK Line directly flowing to their ass for brains, that’s why Dinosaurs like Isaacson have so much trouble with stability on their morning stairmaster sessions…that mainline gets in the way protruding from where the brains reside.

  24. The more I steep about this my brain only comes to one conclusive reaction: F^ck You, all you snowflake has-been windbags.

    Again, where was your collective *outrage* when Veterans were directly killed, mistreated, denied, f^cked with by the VA…oh, and that inconvenient scandal out at Phoenix VAMC or how about any Veterans that have set themselves on fire or blown brains out outside the VAMC they attend? Where was that outrage then?

    How about a week ago with Vets being forced to lay on floors in a VA Emergency Room writhing in pain? Again, where’s that OUTRAGE you over-ranked snowflakes?

    This really is no different than the recent push by the piggy VSO’s pushing their mantra of “Save The VA”….but never quite qualifying saving from WHAT.

    It’s about protecting the tight lid on the scandals to be found in the VA’s Appointed Fiduciary Program…I am certain of it. Scared Shitless has been Generals…VSO’s…and the VA. NOT scared of Vets killing themselves, no, scared of EXPOSURE.

    This is all so sad it’s almost laughable but only thing laughable is their lack of outrage publically when any Vet makes a point to kill themselves in order to make a distinct message of their own outrage…**crickets* until that cookie jar is threatened.
    Rat Bastards.

  25. The American General’s Elite Club. Your job is to take care of the active military. This supposedly is where your expertise lies as well. Focus your energy that deals with the military personal that is on active duty. If you really want to help Veterans and act like a sort of military parent, then get on the VA’s ass so that Veterans can get proper medical care, and to have their claims filed expediently. Other than this, I stand and salute you, with my middle finger extended, and yell, “Fuck you ass wholes.”

    1. I stand corrected, “ass holes” instead of ass wholes. You got me all shook up this morning. Shootz, I didn’t even have my coffee yet. It’s good to know that there are many that are watching over the lives and best interests of Veterans. Thank you again, ass holes.

  26. “[Sound like the program has all the makings of a kangaroo court?]”

    The kangaroos are wearing sheep’s clothing and are actually rats under the plumage.

    “[What do you think? Should we trust these guys (or) are they nothing more than has-been windbags?]”

    Something tells me that there’s a shitload of AFGE rats and Obamination Generals and those piggy VSO’s that are scared SHITLESS that the VA Fiduciary Program will see the disinfecting qualities of daylight. How many of those outspoken windbags are ALSO VA Appointed Fiduciaries?
    Someone is protecting the cookie jar because this is NOT RIGHT stripping the guaranteed RIGHTS under The Constitution.
    What are the rats afraid of?…………..

    1. Yes, I’m suggesting those outspoken windbags are NOT so-much afraid Veterans on “the list” will commit suicide but rather, are WAY MORE AFRAID of the fraud and corruption that’s well-steeped within the VA’s Fiduciary Program.

      Again, it’s not about Vets. It’s about being exposed. Why were these outspoken windbags NOT speaking-up when various Veterans set themselves on fire or shot themselves right outside the VAMC?
      Where was their outrage then?
      Now you see why this MUST be about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$….not Vets….we Vets are just the ticket to that $$$ cookie jar…and these rats are scared SHITLESS they will be exposed…wait for it…

      1. I think this is nothing more than leftist control freaks seeing their ability to control the populace through the full weight of the federal monster slipping away.

        I have no doubt this way of grabbing guns would have expanded far beyond veterans and seniors getting social security. All they would need is a lame excuse to implement it in each federal program. Ever had a student loan? Is it paid back? Are you a farmer or rancher getting some kind of federal aid?

        Once those rights were gone, what rights would they move on to after that?

  27. Shoooo…….go away………retire already.
    Fucking with veterans constitutional rights, is unbecoming of an officer, and in very poor taste.

    “Over 22,000 soldiers in the Army alone have received these bad paper discharges since 2009 due to mental health conditions.” So the Generals admitt to handing out illegal discharges, but do nothing to correct this grave misdeed. And veterans are the incompetent ones? I might add, your letter admitting wrong doing by handing out bad paper to soldiers with mental health conditions, and then having 14 Generals and Admirals sign their names to it, just opened the door to a class action lawsuit. Nice move.

    “Of these 174,000, 19,000 are individuals that suffer from schizophrenia and another 15,000 have severe PTSD.” Okay Generals, if that is the case then a judge can lawfully prevent them from gun ownership. Last I checked none of you are a damn judge are you?

    What’s the matter? couldn’t find a good fishing hole?
    How many retired generals does it take to write an idiotic letter? None, the private did it.

    1. Also, I’d imagine having at least one pointy ‘Star’ up one’s ass would make an old dinosaur General pretty crabby all the time, esp. when called-out to publically display their loyalty to the witch dr.’s and VSO piggies and the VA Public Affairs Office to raise verbal hell against the threat to your cookie jar of fraud and denying the very RIGHTS we Veterans FOUGHT & SERVED TO PROTECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      RAND Corporation concurs that pointy stars shoved-up one’s ass can make one very unpleasant.

    2. Actually, Gabby Giffords and Mark Kelly’s staffers at Americans for Responsible Solutions wrote the letter. These hacks just said yes to having their name listed at the bottom.

      1. Nice work 91Veteran. Still I saved a copy of this letter to provide to my Veterans Assistance Commision, so they have even more ammo for those returning, that gave all and recieved none.

        The first case I heard about personally, was an Iraq soldier who had, if I remember correctly 4 tours, He had a weekend pass, and upon returning he pissed positive for alcohol. They put him out with an oth. I have been really pissed over this issue ever since.

        You Nam guys out there, correct me if i am wrong. A friend of mine, who is also a highly decorated veteran, told me, and forgive me if I have any of these terms wrong, that after being in the field for however long, There was an area they would send them to relaxe, there would be a wall of boxes of beer. Is this correct?

        So in one war, beer is provided by the government, and in another you get an oth for induging in the same relaxing method. In my opinion, any time we send soldiers to possibly lose their life for this country, they deserve to have steak and champaign every fucking day till the day they return home. Not put out with a fucking oth for pissing pos for beer. What kind of Goddam fuckery is this?

        I am not an evil person, but in this case i wish any asshole NCO or CO that did this shit to a soldier, dies a very long and painfull death from an inoperable brain tumor. I hope that fucking brain tumor grows slow and large until their damn fucking heads pop.

      2. Cj, in my opinion whoever ordered that test for alcohol is chickenshit and should be burning shit barrels somewhere, unless whatever R&R place they had set up specifically barred alcohol and what he got was prohibited.

        Even with that, the punishment should have been an AR-15 extra duty and loss of pay. On the other hand, 4 tours suggest an NCO, so they may have held him to a higher standard, which still is nothing more than a convenient excuse to put him out. I would be curious what his Separation code is, and whether he had other issues such as PTSD or TBI that they wanted to ignore.

        When I was in the Gulf, there were R&R places set up in Bahrain and Riyahd. Saudi Arabia prohibited alcohol everywhere, but Bahrain allowed it. Every 3-4 days about 1100 soldiers rotated through Dhahran where they would get on buses to go over to Bahrain. When I went, 21 buses went over. The R&R place was on a cruise ship anchored in the port. It was the same cruise ship used in the filming of the Love Boat, and was exactly like being on a cruise except we didn’t go anywhere. 3 days of good food, air conditioning, normal beds and booze.

        When we left, we got off the boat, lined up on the pier, and every bag was checked. On the way over the bridge from Bahrain, there were security checkpoints run by either Bahrain or Saudis. Everyone left their bags open on the bus, then got off, and security checked every bag again. There were several checkpoints on the way back, I know we were checked at least once. I also saw civilian cars in the parking lot being torn apart because the driver was suspected of smuggling.

        The military took those issues seriously because they didn’t want a problem becoming public causing an incident with the host country.

        We had another guy caught trying to make moonshine at our camp, but that was handled in the unit with an AR-15. I don’t know if he had a bar to re-enlistment placed.

        Some time I might tell the story of a couple guys caught stealing gold by the Saudi MPs and what a disaster that was.

      3. @91Veteran: Thank you again, good info. I can’t remember what the documentary was about that particular veteran. Here is another bs case “” This man was extremely lucky he knew someone, to go too. When I hear of these soldiers getting fucked over, I tell everyone I can think of, and ask them to do the same. At some point if we all do this, the entire country one day might demand answers, and heads on platters.

  28. the more you look the more you find…….Sec. 2263) Clinical testing of medical devices or drugs no longer requires the informed consent of the subjects if the testing poses no more than minimal risk and includes safeguards……….who makes that decision a QUACK we are the big experiment

    1. @OLDMARINE – Yeah Brother, let em know what the story really is all about. Rat brown rice shooting scabby buttflakes of the Military Elite United Group. You folks need to be disbanded as well. Dam, you can’t even take care of the demeaning group of Marines United. Fuck you, you pricks. Ground crawling cockroaches and creeky sounding crickets. Your job description only relates to active duty personnel, not Veterans. You people just can’t give up your manipulative power and influence. As always, squirming sneaky snakes looking for unprotected prey to control and override the lives of Veterans. Your a commander only in active duty status, not inactive duty. Fuck you again, ass holes.

    2. You know, I would have to wonder, wouldn’t ALL researchers expect “minimal risk” until their testing proved otherwise?

  29. the 21st Century Cures Act (Sec. 1124) The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) must revise health information privacy rules to allow: (1) use of protected information for research purposes to be treated as use for health care operations, (2) remote access to information by researchers, and (3) individuals to authorize future use of their information for research……….am i reading this right they can do whatever they want with your medical information

  30. this is off topic watch this on UTUBE ……… The Time George Bush Accidentally Told The Truth………..

  31. just a NEW WORLD ORDER PUPPET Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney, USMC (Ret) CEO, American Security Project at Cimate Week 2013 ….. wood stoves are a security threat ….. might be a insurance claim threat LOL…..i better go put another log on the fire 19 degrees here this AM ….and he says the world is demanding action, maybe he meant the puppets are. never heard any complaints from my neighbors, maybe because there to far away its nice when you can sit on your porch and target practice

  32. if this group of dirt bag generals got to send them a letter we should have had a pole among vets and sent them our results. if you ever wondered how these dirt bags all have a chest full of ribbons they fly in country set there foot on the ground get some pictures taken fly back, get back to the states get awarded their ribbon arn’t you impressed yet….nothing more than the war machines puppets . and when did they start calling all these traitors honorable …now a days you just have to reverse the meaning of every thing just like the patriot act read it , nothing patriotic about it …start reading to many laws and they will give you , your time has expired and have to start all over again WTF

    1. Wow you are so right , when people like you or i really have to fight a war and is awarded one ribbon, then the generals like “Mad Dog Mattis” they make up ribbons to plaster on there chest.

    2. This reminds me of news from some time ago where officers were flying into a war zone around the end of the month, staying a few days until the start of the next month, and getting both months tax free because they were in a combat zone.

      1. OLDMARINE, if I recall those news articles correctly, those officers not only collected 2 months basic pay, but they also got other pay along with combat pay for those 2 months. All tax free.

        For flying in-country to some secure location and staying a few days.

        As for greed, look at any supply operation in a combat zone. For whatever reason, rules and regs go right out the window once you get in-country.

        I had a medical supply officer strongly hint he would not give me medical supplies unless I had things to trade. That worked like that with many different supply operations.

        At one supply operation for all of northern Saudi Arabia, they had hundreds and hundreds of 40 foot shipping containers stacked 3 high.

        You had to leave your ID at the single entry point…then likely wait all day because they had no idea what supplies were in any container until they opened it. If your supplies were in that container they opened, you might get them. If they weren’t, you might wait longer, leave without them, or offer something to trade to help them remember where the supplies you wanted might be.

        If you’ve ever seen the movie, Kelly’s Heroes. Think of Don Rickles as the supply guy.

      2. i kind of remember the same racket , the only thing we bought that was easy to get was warm beer lived in hot ass tents we would make a ice run into a small town with a jeep and a small trailer they would take ice orders it was like a 1 foot square and about 2and a half feet long for 25 cents

    3. I agree. For one I don’t see a damn one of them – up there, being honorable, none. All of them locally or in my Hoosier state are worth a diddly damn. Sure good at censoring, ignoring, and causing trouble for us who dare question any of them and their professional misconduct or lack of keeping their oaths.

      For two. Punishing all for the behavior of others or a few is “Collective Punishment” a war crime. Which has become a force to be reckoned with in this totally corrupt new American culture. That is what we were told in the pain clinic orientation. If a few veterans are doing it or becoming criminals, to selling our pain meds, “You all will sooner or later so we must protect you from yourselves.” He repeated a few times.

      For three. How would those asshole traitors and communist tyrants feel about talking to some vets one minute the next they are getting liquored up and walking in front of a semi truck or sitting on rail road tracks or going for long walks in deep winter to die off somewhere, and other horrible endings. Or setting themselves on fire due to horrible treatment from our fearless corrupt self-serving leaders. Personally, If they are going to do it (end their life) there is no stopping anyone from ending all the pain and agony, and the Draconian emotional vampire traitors treatment we get from our lousy government and suits/pant suits that rule all, have golden treatment and we get crap. It’s all about the power, control, greed, them loving to see people suffer off camera, and squeezing every penny they can out of us or by way of us.

      In my volunteer work I seen too much of it and heard about plenty more. I think it’s time for those scum in DC and the generals to fall on the sword or go hide away somewhere. Too many of those in power are NOT what they seem to be or how media has molded them and tricked the people into thinking they are all great while censoring some facts like they did about McCain and his daddy. USS Liberty The whole damn sheebang is guilty as hell – up there, as well as the media and the rest of all the well cared for propagandist and liars.

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