Falsified Credentials Spell Disaster For Would-Be American Legion Executive
Verna Jones, 53, abruptly resigned from the American Legion in response to impending background checks. She was set to take over for Daniel S. Wheeler, the current National Adjutant, a high-ranking role within the Legion.
Background checks could not verify that Jones had ever attended law school, let alone become licensed to practice law. When it comes to credentialing of licensed attorneys, the credentials of most attorneys out there are very easy to confirm.
Jones’ colleagues did not anticipate this revelation, as she is generally held in high regard as a staunch advocate for veterans.
Jones started working for her local chapter of the Legion in North Carolina, after she served in the Army during the Gulf War. She discovered great talents for networking and public speaking, which catapulted her forward in the organization.
She was made executive director of the American Legion in 2014, and she could have held that post without a law degree quite happily. So, why would she lie about having one?
Radio hosts often referred to her as an attorney, and publications have occasionally listed her as “Verna Jones, Esq.” The title of “Esquire” denotes that the honorary is an attorney. As far back as 2013, before her acceptance of executive directorship, people have been making this assumption and she has been fueling it.
Between the time these assumptions started surfacing and now, Jones might have earned the law degree she has feigned having. Perhaps she felt pressure to present herself with greater credibility, instead of telling the incredible truth: that she did the nigh-impossible thing the U.S. Government loves to tell people to do and pulled herself up by her bootstraps.
Close associates of hers have said, and her record speaks for itself, that Jones is bright and highly competent, and that the circumstances surrounding her departure are so saddening.
The whole scenario has the vibe of “I talked myself up at a party to seem cool, but the ensuing rumors got way out of hand, and I could not figure out how to come clean until it was too late.”
Jones has had a scintillating career up to this point, and it is both disheartening and surreal that her departure from the American Legion would conclude this way.
We need vibrant, committed, passionate people in high places at these organizations, and Jones has been all of those things. We need younger leaders, and we need diverse perspectives. We need women leaders and leaders of color. Verna Jones is a person we needed, and up until now, she seems to have done so many things right.
At the end of the day, though, even an ambitious and determined executive cannot get away with lying about being a lawyer. It is too easy to verify that claim when it matters.
What is your viewpoint about this scandal? Could it have been avoided? Does it diminish what Jones has previously accomplished? Let us know in the comments!
This is a very sad story. Verna Jones was my former supervisor at the American Legion. She said she went to law school, but I never recall her saying she had a law degree or saying anything about the bar exam. At the time, from what I recall, we only had two claim reps who were barred to practice law.
Also, make no mistake, The National Headquarters of the American Legion is the best, brightest and the most legitimate force on all aspects of veteran legal and policy matters. And is largely impart because of the hard work and dedication of Verna Jones and all the Executive Directors and Division Directors that came before her.
This may have diminished her personal career goals, but this will never diminish her contrabutions to the military veteran community. And I personally thank her for all she taught me about life, work, and Veteran Affairs law and policy.
If you are reading this Verna, just remember “honest””caring” and “generous” people always bounce back stronger than ever.
Her lack of integrity doesn’t bother you?
Report from Seoul South Korea
55 MIAs returning from Korea.
Sadly it is the remains of 55 which are in some very small boxes. So small that all 55 of them fit into 6 minivans. See the video
Tis’ Election season and the smell of fake actions by congress seem to be ripening. Oh the ever hallowed sound of those false promises as they bang the drums of BS. With the hollow promise of enrichment of those inflected.
Reps. Zeldin, King, Suozzi, Rice Introduce Legislation Regarding Possible Veterans’ Service Contracted Liver Fluke
By Long Island News & PR Published: July 26 2018
Zeldin: “I am deeply concerned about the Liver Fluke parasite that has infected so many of our nation’s veterans.”
“Long Island, NY – July 26, 2018 – Today, Congressman Lee Zeldin (R, NY-1) was joined by Representatives Peter King (R, NY-2), Tom Suozzi (D, NY-3) and Kathleen Rice (D, NY-4) in introducing the Vietnam Veterans Liver Fluke Cancer Study Act, which requires the Department of Veterans Affairs, in conjunction with the Centers for Disease Control, to conduct a study to determine the prevalence of “liver fluke” amongst the veteran population and the link between a veteran’s service record and affliction, paving the way for veterans to claim a service connected disability under their Veterans Affairs benefits.”
Full Article At: “https://www.longisland.com/news/07-26-18/reps-zeldin-king-suozzi-rice-introduce-legislation-regarding-possible-veterans-service-contracted-liver-fluke.html”
“Democrats call on Sessions to investigate acting VA secretary for perjury”
By NIKKI WENTLING | STARS AND STRIPES Published: July 26, 2018
” WASHINGTON — Three Democrats on Thursday called on the Justice Department to investigate whether the acting secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs lied during testimony to a congressional committee.
Reps. Tim Walz, D-Minn., Mark Takano, D-Calif., and Kathleen Rice, D-N.Y., suspect acting VA Secretary Peter O’Rourke lied about providing documents to the VA inspector general. In a letter to Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Thursday, the lawmakers wrote the comments were made during two hearings of the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, one on June 26 and the other on July 17.
“[W]e request that you open an investigation to determine whether Mr. O’Rourke made unlawful statements (perjury or otherwise) in providing false testimony in the two subject hearings,” the Democrats wrote. “If you determine that Mr. O’Rourke did in fact make an unlawful statement, or that others conspired with, instructed, or encouraged him to do the same, we request that you pursue immediate prosecution.”
The VA declined to comment Thursday.
The issue stems from a fight last month between O’Rourke and VA Inspector General Michael Missal.
Missal said the VA refused to release hundreds of employee complaints submitted to the VA Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection, a VA office created last year to carry out disciplinary actions and handle whistleblower concerns.”
Personally I believe that O’Rourke had an obligation to protect the WhistleBlowers by not providing the documents to Missal. We know that whistleblowers are fired after the VAOIG office gets involved.
Also a great article on the VAOIG office in Denver that Tab posted a link to show just how corrupt Missal is. It is truly past time to fire the bastard.
“VA whistleblowers say Denver office did no work for a year”
Posted 12:25 pm, July 24, 2018, by Rob Low, Dever News channels 31 & 2
“DENVER — Imagine making close to $100,000 a year and having nothing to do at the office.
It’s what Denver whistleblowers say was reality for employees at the local Office of the Inspector General for Veterans Affairs.
That’s the very division in charge of wiping out waste, fraud and abuse for the medical system that serves the nation’s veterans.
“These are your tax dollars that are paying the salaries of these individuals to sit in an office and do absolutely nothing all day,” said one anonymous whistleblower to the Problem Solvers.
“After a while it became a joke,” is how a second whistleblower described it.
“Come into work and pretty much staring at the wall all day kind of just hanging out every day pretty much with nothing to do.”
Both whistleblowers filed complaints with the Office of Special Counsel in Washington, stating an office of 11 employees basically did no work from April 2017 to April 2018.
The combined salaries of those employees during that time frame totaled more than $1.2 million.”
Give you one guess who got fired after Missal was informed by the office of special console about the complaint.
“Trump Names Controversial Adviser to Head VA Mental Health Commission”
Military.com 26 Jul 2018 By Richard Sisk
“President Donald Trump has picked a controversial White House adviser and former beer company executive to head a mental health commission at the Department of Veterans Affairs.
The VA announced Tuesday that Trump had named Jake Leinenkugel, a White House political appointee and adviser on veterans issues, to head the VA’s “Creating Options for Veterans’ Expedited Recovery Commission,” or COVER.
The announcement was made by Acting VA Secretary Peter O’Rourke, himself a lightning rod for criticism from the VA’s Inspector General and House and Senate Democrats over allegations of political infighting at the VA.
Robert Wilkie, the former under secretary for personnel and readiness at the Pentagon, was confirmed by the Senate on Monday to become the next VA secretary but has yet to be sworn in.
In a statement, O’Rourke said Leinenkugel “has been an ambassador for change at VA, working to implement President Trump’s policies throughout the department over the past year and a half. As leader of this important new commission, Jake will continue to advocate for better care and services for his fellow veterans.””
Full Article At: “https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/07/26/trump-names-controversial-adviser-head-va-mental-health-commission.html”
Does this mean the VA is going to try beer goggles therapy?
Police Give ‘All Clear’ After Reports of Active Shooter at Palo Alto VA Facility
By NBC Bay Area staff
Published at 10:50 AM PDT on Jul 26, 2018 | Updated 3 hours ago
“Law enforcement officials gave an all clear Thursday afternoon after investigating reports of an active shooter at the Veterans Affairs healthcare facility in Palo Alto.
Employees at the VA facility reported receiving a text alert around 10:30 a.m. alerting them about an active shooter situation. The message told them: “this is not a drill,” and asked to shelter in place.
A VA spokesperson confirmed the shelter in place at the facility at 3801 Miranda Avenuewhich was lifted after about an hour. Palo Alto Police said on twitter that the reports of an active shooter were not true.
“Regarding reports of a supposed active shooter at the @VAPaloAlto in #PaloAlto: there is no active shooter and the V.A. Police Department has cancelled our response. Please contact them for any additional details they may have available for release,” the department tweeted.”
“NOPD officially fires officers in bar attack; civil rights task force, FBI investigating matter”
Travers Mackel, WDSU News Channel 6, July 26th, 2018
“NEW ORLEANS — Two rookie officers with the New Orleans Police Department accused of attacking a veteran outside a Mid-City bar have been fired.
Their termination came just hours after the officers appeared in court, running in and out through a nonpublic entrance.
In a written statement, officials with the Police Department said:
“This investigation is ongoing and the Greater New Orleans Civil Rights Task Force (GNOCRFT), which consists of members of NOPD’s public integrity bureau (PIB) and FBI, are actively looking into whether this case meets the elements of a potential civil rights violation.”
WDSU obtained the original arrest reports on the former officers.
The altercation started at the Mid-City Yacht Club, the Police Department said, when one of the off-duty officers questioned Jorge Gomez’s military service. The Louisiana National Guard confirmed that Gomez served in the Guard.
On Wednesday in court, both former officers — John Galman and Spencer Sutton — pleaded not guilty to simply battery charges, a misdemeanor. The officers were allowed to use a nonpublic entrance to enter and leave the courtroom.
The court records also said the officers allegedly struck Gomez with closed fists outside the bar.
The initial report also says Sutton told investigators he had no specific memory of the incident. The report also said the Police Department used eyewitness and video surveillance evidence to arrest the officers.
The lawyer for the officers didn’t say much as they left court.
“Your clients pleaded not guilty. Are they?” asked WDSU’s Travers Mackel.
“I have no comment at this time,” said Jake Lemmon, an attorney for the former officers.
“Did they target this gentleman because, as he said, they called him a ‘fake American’?” asked Mackel.
“I really just can’t comment at this time,” said Lemmon.
Orleans Parish District Attorney Leon Cannizzaro will review the case, and the charge could be upgraded to a felony.
In a written statement, Cannizzaro said:
“Our office contended that Magistrate Commissioner Jonathan Friedman acted improperly when he ordered ROR releases for the arrested rookie officers, and today Judge Jupiter agreed with us. It is illegal under Louisiana law to grant an ROR to someone arrested for a crime of violence. In addition, when the defendants are law enforcement officers who have a sworn duty to protect and serve the public, and they violate the trust of the community even while off-duty, the court should be obligated to take a harder look and set an appropriate bond.
“We found it disturbing that Commissioner Friedman disregarded the violent nature of the accused officers’ acts and improperly ordered their release within an hour of their arrests. Judge Jupiter applied the law properly today when withdrawing that order and requiring these defendants to post bonds.
“As with any case, our office will carefully screen the police reports and evidence presented by investigators and determine whether the recommended misdemeanor charges of simple battery should be accepted or modified.”
The bond for the former officers was revoked, and a judge re-set it at $1,500, which both paid. The Mid-City Yacht Club also released a statement on the incident, saying:
“Mr. Gomez is our long time customer and friend and we are very sickened that this has happened to him. The MCYC family is extremely concerned. We will plan a fundraiser, as long as it is with Mr. Gomez blessing, to help raise money to support Mr. Gomez during this difficult time.””
Why do you think that an organization would be proud of fighting for the veterans rights they were promised by that same government which place them in harms way and said that they would give us what we need to live if we lived after we did the things for the country and lied about that to the point where we need to be help by the vso to file forms for me to get what they promised to us in the first place maybe we should just go and take our government back as our for father knew it might come to this point and placing it in our constitutional right to throw them out and send new people in who will do the job and for the people by the people and the country we fought for not the country we have now and so I have said this for many years and I don’t see any thing else we can do to get the country back to the people and the people are so close to get that way I can see it happening so soon. I am a100 DAV and I heat where this country has been and is going but we can bring it back to the country for the people and by the people if we want it to be over and out but never silent and God Bless America and the people of the people who fight for it. J.M.H
Prosocute that bitch!
I just got a letter from the C&P office telling me to call them to schedule an appointment. Apparently they have the wrong phone number!!!!!!!!
There so many veterans that want to be noticed, need company and by telling stories they find a voice. This has become a problem because veterans are breaking into groups as disabled, combat, airborne and the favorite special forces. People also forget so many who tell these stories have mental health problems or low self esteem. Makes them feel taken more seriously and you can’t dip your toe in the water when eventually going for a swim. I’m sure that found taken more seriously when helping others and could not shake it when no longer needed. Funny part is all the perfect people who have no idea who they really are because they leave that at home locking all the doors. A lawyer, congressman,Jackson Brown, VA Doctor and a American Legion member walked into a bar……….
Remeber, that Lincoln letter got Samuel Jackson on that stage coach in the Hateful 8 movie.
American Legion are they even fkn Relevant anymore? How can someone take their Claim to the Deaf, Dumb, Drunk, and Blind of VSOs and Organization?
California, and I believe Virginia and Tennessee have alternatives to holding a JD before sitting the bar (believe Tenn doesn’t even have one) and “earning” the “right” to practice law before the court and refer to one’s self as an attorney. There is also at least 1 FEDERAL Bar that does not require a JD, although the term there for non-holders of JD’s who have passed the bar and may argue … is “Agent” (The Bar for patent law. Wish I had known that one 20+years ago… The JD isn’t required, however the equivalent in hard STEM education/experience is. If fact for a JD to sit that one requires that they hold the STEM background)
Knowing of the above “loop-holes” in what and who makes for an attorney leaves one wondering what the real story is since taking advantage of Va being an “apprentice” state with reciprocal privileges and her apparently having the tickets punched to prove the required apprenticeship….
VSO’s are nothing more than appendages of the VA to drown out the voices of real veterans trying to be heard. Joining them is like joining a union, you have to look right and follow the party line which is to protect and cover up for the VA. Why legislators and POTUS turn to them to find out what veterans are thinking is beyond me, unless they don’t care. They don’t care about how veterans are suffering, if they did they would institute a role call to find forgotten veterans. I believe most of them have never seen a day of combat. I went to a town-hall type meeting at an amer. legion where several upper management from a local VAMC were present, which meeting was under announced by the media, there were four veterans their. Not much of any substance was discussed. But the bar was full…
Which is why we need an organization for all us disenfranchised and disillusioned fucks that everybody else wants to sweep under a rug. Honestly I think the way to go at this point is to buy stock in rug companies…
No Way I ever found her credible. If anything, she held the Legion back as long as she was an officer there. Lotta fake dogooders with titles in the Legion who only hold the positions to hold there status up and thereby strangle meaningful legion business interests, even so far as depriving members due process or meaningful representation. I abhor Leadership at the Legion for many reasons. They are egotistical maniacs whose only real agenda is self empowerment. As One National Commander put it, the rank of National Commander is pre determined years before the elections. Same Commander that led the VA Reform charge that has resulted in all the FAKE REFORMS VA has implemented and Congress signed off on.
I’m sorry to say, even with all the good Ms. Jones has done, she voided all trust by her big lie and must be held accountable and responsible as we all should. There just is no room for this and at no time should such lies be acceptable or tolerated, no matter who they are.
Well, well, well. how many claims has she screwed up by not having the qualifications she was supposed to have? I’ve only got a G.E.D. and I’m a dumb shit but I read up on some of the NVLSP materials and I found out that these college educated VSO’s don’t know diddly squat!
And you wonder why membership continues to slump???
Where is this women to be found on the INTEGRITY scale? I can tell you. ZERO
Why in the world people give money to VSOs is beyond me.
Must be cuz they are ignorant as to where that money “really” goes?
I mean, look at Wounded Warriors. When the scandal broke out about there heads doing parties and all that, you’d think they’d be done with….nope, they still have their advertisements late at nite to pull on your purse/heart strings with the here/there veterans they “help”.
Yeah, easy to “help” when the VA pays for a lot of your expenses (federal financial assistance in the form of free office space, etc.) and tax free donations.
Boy, people are sheep…
If these organizations were effective in making change, why is the VA the ShHole it is after these VSOs being in existence for decades?????
Sheeple. Well said TaB
There is no reason to give anyone money to file a claim. Matter of fact, it is illegal to charge for initial filing of claims.
In North Carolina each county has at least one or more veteran service officers who work for the county. They are certified by the North Carolina division of Veteran Affairs and the American Legion. They can do everything from filing claims
through the appeal process.
I have successfully filed hundreds upon hundreds of claims and have never charged for one.
But she had to be a BIG SHOT didn’t she, soo much fun to be around.
Pull myself up by my bootstraps? WTF.gov
Little Acorns: The White Strips, Elephant
Some silicone sister with a manicured mister told me I got what it takes…
Lots of losers and egos in .gov
I work with tons of people who put Esq. and/or their degrees in their signature block on emails. One time an e-mail was sent out to tell all the “Esqs” to stop putting that on their title if they do not serve as an attorney for the agency.
See, people who “KNOW” they have talents, skills, etc. don’t need to walk around with a T-shirt reminding everyone of it….only people who are losers, lack any real skill, confidence, etc. do so.
Lots of losers at the VA beating their chests on how great they are…when all they are actuall illiterate fools.
Not justifying her decision to do this but the term Esq means a whole lot more then just an attorney according to Websters
(initial capital letter) an unofficial title of respect, having no precise significance, sometimes placed, especially in its abbreviated form, after a man’s surname in formal written address: in the U.S., usually applied to lawyers, women as well as men; in Britain, applied to a commoner considered to have gained the social position of a gentleman. Abbreviation: Esq.
a man belonging to the order of English gentry ranking next below a knight.”
So technically, she was correct in using that phrase as only in the US is the term thought to be used for Attorneys, not in the rest of the world or in a dictionary or encyclopedia.
They need to do an audit of VA and VSOs alleged educational qualifications…
When I got hired, oh yea, everyone boasting about degrees and dumber than a box of rocks.
One who claimed she was an IT project manager for decades in the private sector didn’t know how to back up her personal files and/or change her screen background – basic knowledge for anyone who has used a computer for more than one day.
Ummm… Probably why she was forced to retire and replaced by foreigners and now at the VA…what an idiot.
Time to get that small ? out and play “My Heart Bleeds For You!”
She did the right thing by stepping down from any position. Now she needs to admit that everything the American Legion does for veterans is bullshit! Just like ALL the rest of the VSO’s out there!
I’m with you there, elf. But not because she is black like Seymore’s hate mongering rag after we had a black president.
Well this lady had ample time to get her degree to become s certified attorney instead of lying or making it up in her head, it’s amazing that she could have continued to slide through all this without even being caught if someone had just checked into her background in the beginning she almost got away with it
How many of these fake assholes have already falsely “helped” 22 Veterans to their daily suicidal grave by the American Legion and other VSO’s indifference infection from the VA?
Yes, I’m suggesting that MANY of the VSO’s credentials need to be re-vetted or vetted to begin with….perhaps this explains why so many claims sit idle on desks of fat hatters?
Oh…I could give a rats=ass what Jones did PRIOR to lying about her law degree…a liar is a liar and don’t believe anything she has done has been for Vets but her own capitulation to higher pay scales…DONE, bitch!
“The Safety Dance”, by Men Without Hats
“[“The Safety Dance”
We can dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
‘Cause your friends don’t dance and if they don’t dance
Well, they’re no friends of mine
Say, we can go where we want to
A place where they will never find
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
And we can dance
We can go when we want to
The night is young and so am I
And we can dress real neat from our hats to our feet
And surprise ’em with the victory cry
Say, we can act if we want to
If we don’t, nobody will
And you can act real rude and totally removed
And I can act like an imbecile…]”
TO: Verna Jones
Veteran Lives Matter you scum-sucking bitch….no go back under your bridge and crack pipe.
Oh. Let me pull out the smallest violin in the world and play a tune here…
With all of the wheeling/dealing they all do with the VA to screw over veterans, she probably already has a position with the VA lined up for her….especially now that she met one of the VA’s qualifications to join the syndicate (lie, lie, lie).
Hey, I already made the effort to help a sister out….the VA OIG looks like it has some vacancies – especially after ending the internship of the whistleblower who snitched on them for sitting around pulling $90K and doing nothing….
A Fraud is a Fraud is a Fraud. The only reason she was being placed in the position was because she is a black female. Not because her education and abilities earned her the position.
Typical haole remark, Seymore. But then you have a lot of black friends or suck ups don’t you.
From the article:
“Jones invigorated the Legion at a time when veterans service organizations, often associated with cantankerous old grunts, are struggling to draw in younger and more diverse members. In 2014, Jones was promoted to executive director, becoming the first woman — and the first African-American — to ever attain that position in the Legion’s almost 100-year history. The historic promotion was covered thoroughly by the media.”
p.s. Lem fck off!
“Rose is a rose is a rose is a rose.” Is among Gertrude Stein most famous quotations, often interpreted as meaning “things are what they are”, a statement of the law of identity, “A is A”.
When I hear somebody say that to me what I’m really hearing is “things are currently sufferable”
Would you concur?
I bet this Racist Fake even Served Next to “his brothers” and hid his deep disdain for them they or I would have let you take a bullet…
It certainly can mean “things are currently sufferable” but for me I lean more toward the Shakespearean quote of “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet”. Basically say that it is what it is and in this case it is fraud.
You may try to brand my comment, and me, as racist but the facts are my comment is nothing more then the truth.
As far as me being a racist. I voted for Obama during his first run for president not because he was black or I was voting against someone else. But because I thought that he would make a good president. Sadly I was wrong and did not repeat my mistake in his run for re-election.
Lem I saw you as little more than a snowflake and given you are going to call me a racist while using a racist term of haoles. It is clear that I was wrong about you. You are truly a racist snowflake.
mk, a.k.a. Mark Swagerty, you I totally and utterly despise. Not because you are Black. I despise you because you have been convicted of prostituting a child under the age of 14. Also, I despise you for being a part of that other child rapist, Bill Emmel’s, bogus Veterans Non-Profit named 22 Warriors Foundation in Vegas. As for your comment on not covering some ones back. You never have covered anyone’s back except your own. You even snitched on your co-conspirators in that child prostitution ring in Los Angeles.
What does her being black have anything to do with what she did? Other than the American Legion being a mostly racist organization who put a black person in leadership. What does my being a mixed race person from a family that passed for white for several generations and whose children became racist because they were raised among white racist without knowing they were black by the standards of the white children they were playing with have anything to do with my remarks.
My family was a little shocked to find their black heritage. My father died without knowing he was as black as the entertainers he accused of passing for white. And yet he had men on his railroad track crew that he treated very decently while calling them the n word behind their backs furthering the racisim in us kids. So I’ve been on both sides and know a dog whistle when I see one.
If you voted for Obama, why do you come down on his administration in favor of the birther, the Donald?
I voted for Obama also. And I’m disappointed in his lack of backbone engendered by those sure he was going to be overbearing as a President. But I understand the tight rope he had to walk. I can imagine the first of our family, who moved from SC to MO and passed for white walking that line for fear they would be found out and hung.
Don’t care to know anything about how you see yourself Lem. It is clear you are nothing but a racist snowflake.
Hell you don’t even know my heritage and know nothing about me. Your attempts to provide an imaginary heritage for yourself just to justify using racial slurs and insults just don’t cut it snowflake.
See I told you, even the flies around the shit stinks. When is it fucking enough. All these decades of abuse, corruption, nepotism, favoritism, and all the other bennies that fit nicely into the pockets of the criminals.
DOJ, FBI where the fuck you at? You’ve got enough evidence, and criminal activity to discover, that your Agency will be busy for many years.
So what’s the damn problem? DOJ, FBI is your hand in the cookie jar too? Damn, the whole fucking Gov’t is corrupt. Yeah right, “We the People.” don’t mean fucking shit to you. TRAITORS.
Maybe if she had been another color they would have done something but
otherwise they don’t want to stir the embers. If you know what I mean. I say this
because Ive see many examples. Gotta get Bezo to run the va. Maybe he’ll buy it.lol!
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