second amendment

Retired Army Gen. Davit Petraeus and other retired generals oppose new legislation protecting some veterans’ second amendment rights.

Fourteen ex-generals wrote to Congress opposing the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. The general basis for their argument was that veterans precluded from gun ownership under VA’s fiduciary program would commit suicide if the law was passed.

The letter was presented on letterhead for their organization called Veterans Coalition For Common Sense.

Presently, VA automatically deems veterans who need assistance managing their VA benefits as also being “mentally defective” without a magistrate or judicial ruling on the matter – – which is required for civilians, just not veterans.

These veterans are placed into the VA Fiduciary Program. A fiduciary is appointed to then manage the finances of these same veterans.

About The Guns

The FBI then teamed up with VA to create a memorandum of understanding (MOU). That MOU forced VA to submit the names of veterans in the Fiduciary Program to the FBI for placement onto the registry wherein they would no longer be able to purchase guns under the Brady Act.

Meanwhile, similarly situated non-veterans would be allowed to own guns and buy guns up until they are brought into court and deemed “mentally defective” by a judge.

Veterans must instead rely on a VA non-lawyer, non-doctor to provide fair adjudication of the medical facts and laws impacting their right to bear arms. Keep in mind, there is a big difference between being “mentally defective” and being unable to balance a checkbook.

Sound like the program has all the makings of a kangaroo court?

New Gun Legislation

New legislation from Congress supports gun ownership for veterans unable to balance a checkbook. Veterans who are mentally defective will still be precluded from gun ownership so long as a judge agrees.

Numerous ex-generals oppose the legislation calling it “irresponsible and dangerous.” In support of their argument, these same generals base the premise of their argument solely on suicide hysteria implicitly asserting veterans unable to manage a checkbook are more likely to be unstable and suicidal than other Americans without evidence:

“The bill you are debating comes at a time when an average of 20 veterans commit suicide each day, two-thirds of whom do so by using a firearm. We know that non-deployed veterans are at a 61 percent higher risk of suicide compared to the American civilian population, and deployed veterans are at a 41 percent higher risk,” they wrote. “When vulnerable veterans have access to firearms, they can do harm not only to themselves but also to family members and loved ones. The impact of these tragedies is felt in communities across our nation.”

Broken down, these bags of hot are arguing:

  1. Some veterans should lose their right to bear arms because other veterans commit suicide
  2. Veterans unable to manage their checking account are more likely to commit suicide than other Americans
  3. Americans still care about a bunch of ex-generals think after leading us into the longest wars in our country’s history without solid basis for the wars

Now, where is the evidence? Is it next to the Iraqi “yellow cake”?

What about studies supporting this position?

Or are we merely reading about a bunch of has-beens hypothesizing about things not supported by evidence?

I discussed this yesterday and thought the pushback from the generals was worth noting.

First, veterans should have constitutional rights that are the same as other Americans, and certainly not fewer rights.

State courts must conclude the American is “mentally defective” before revoking a person’s right to own a firearm. Veterans may not be “mentally defective” but merely unable to manage their checkbook, but their constitutional right to bear arms will be revoked.

Second, these disconnected generals are also assuming veterans who struggle managing their finances are unstable and thusly the gun ownership ban is appropriate.Where is the evidence or studies that support these claims?

Where is the evidence or studies that support these claims?

Oh, they are probably in a pile next to the studies telling us Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

The legislation forces VA to take the veteran to court to prove they are “mentally defective” before revoking their constitutional right to bear arms. This seems fair to me.

I agree that “mentally defective” people should avoid gun ownership.

But if managing one’s finances is the measure for owning a gun, then all of Wall Street should be precluded from gun ownership after 2008. So should Congress.And what about ever VA executive unable to manage their budgets?

And what about ever VA executive unable to manage their budgets?

As for the generals, it sounds like these guys still think the hot air they espouse should trump the rights of former servicemembers.

At the end of the day, these generals are implicitly saying veterans deserve few rights, and less due process, than the civilians they protected while at war.

Perhaps these generals need a wake-up call?

List Of Generals

Here is the list of generals, and I would be curious to hear your feedback if any readers are familiar with them:

  1. Admiral Thad Allen, USCG (Ret.)
  2. General Peter W. Chiarelli, USA (Ret.)
  3. General Wesley Clark, USA (Ret.)
  4. General Michael V. Hayden, USA (Ret.)
  5. General James T. Hill, USA (Ret.)
  6. General Stanley A. McChrystal, USA (Ret.)
  7. Admiral Eric T. Olson, USN (Ret.)
  8. General David H. Petraeus, USA (Ret.)
  9. Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, USA (Ret.)
  10. Lieutenant General Russel Honoré, USA (Ret.)
  11. Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy, USA (Ret.)
  12. Lieutenant General Norman R. Seip, USAF (Ret.)
  13. Rear Admiral James “Jamie” A. Barnett, USN (Ret.)
  14. Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney, USMC (Ret.)

Ex-Generals Letter Opposing Gun Rights

Here is the content of the letter:

As dedicated service members and members of the Veterans Coalition for Common Sense, we write to you today to express our grave concerns with legislation being considered by Congress, the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. This proposal would put America’s veterans who need our support the most in harm’s way by providing them with easy access to firearms. Instead of passing this irresponsible and dangerous legislation, Congress should instead do more to guarantee that all veterans have access to world-class medical and counseling services. We urge you to oppose this bill.

Our nation is facing a devastating epidemic of veteran suicide. The bill you are debating comes at a time when an average of 20 veterans commit suicide each day, two-thirds of whom do so by using a firearm. We know that non-deployed veterans are at a 61 percent higher risk of suicide compared to the American civilian population, and deployed veterans are at a 41 percent higher risk. Firearms are the most lethal means when it comes to suicide, resulting in death nine out of ten times. When vulnerable veterans have access to firearms, they can do harm not only to themselves but also to family members and loved ones. The impact of these tragedies is felt in communities across our nation.  

Last week, we were pleased to hear Secretary of Veterans Affairs (VA) David Shulkin announce his intent to provide urgent mental health care services to veterans with other-than-honorable discharges. This is a step in the right direction. Over 22,000 soldiers in the Army alone have received these bad paper discharges since 2009 due to mental health conditions, and they are among the ones who most need access to comprehensive mental health services. 

But they are not the only ones. In 2008, President Bush signed a law requiring all federal agencies to submit the names of individuals who are legally prohibited from possessing guns to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). Since then, the VA has submitted over 174,000 names of servicemen and women who require a fiduciary to manage their benefits and have been determined through clear and convincing evidence to meet the federal standard for gun prohibition. Of these 174,000, 19,000 are individuals that suffer from schizophrenia and another 15,000 have severe PTSD.

For these individuals, possession of a firearm could be fatal. The Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act would put at risk the safety of these veterans and our communities by changing the standard for gun prohibition, so the VA’s determinations would no longer stop a veteran from obtaining a gun. Instead, the names of veterans already in the background check system would be erased, putting them at much greater risk of self-harm. This would be irresponsible, dangerous, and life threatening to those who need access to care, not weapons.

Just last year, Congress worked to ensure that all veterans have appropriate due process protections in place through the 21st Century Cures Act. This codified existing practice and guaranteed that individuals who disagree with their final adjudication have the ability to appeal this determination.  

We appreciate your service to your country in the United States Congress, and look forward to working with you to support and protect our men and women in uniform and their communities. In doing so, we urge you to oppose the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. Thank you for your consideration.

What do you think? Should we trust these guys are are they nothing more than has-been windbags?

I noticed the letter fixated on two examples, veterans with severe PTSD and those with schizophrenia. But keep in mind, over 174,000 veterans are on the list. Of that, only a fraction, less than 20%, fall into the categories singled out above.

What about the other veterans? Where is the full breakdown?

We need to have a deeper dialogue on this to ensure no veterans in that 174,000 list are improperly being deprived of any constitutional right.

Keep in mind, once in the Fiduciary Program, these same veterans are also limited in how they can retain counsel, even with their own money.

So how will those improperly denied their rights be able to get representation under the present scheme?

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/14/petraeus-and-other-ex-generals-oppose-bill-let-mentally-ill-vets-get-guns/99160492/

OLDMARINE
if this group of dirt bag generals got to send them a letter we should have had a pole among vets and sent them our results. if you ever wondered how these dirt bags all have a chest full of ribbons they fly in country set there foot on the ground get some pictures taken fly back, get back to the states get awarded their ribbon arn’t you impressed yet….nothing more than the war machines puppets . and when did… Read more »
ezee

Wow you are so right , when people like you or i really have to fight a war and is awarded one ribbon, then the generals like “Mad Dog Mattis” they make up ribbons to plaster on there chest.

91Veteran

This reminds me of news from some time ago where officers were flying into a war zone around the end of the month, staying a few days until the start of the next month, and getting both months tax free because they were in a combat zone.

OLDMARINE

NOW THAT IS SOME REAL GREED

91Veteran
OLDMARINE, if I recall those news articles correctly, those officers not only collected 2 months basic pay, but they also got other pay along with combat pay for those 2 months. All tax free. For flying in-country to some secure location and staying a few days. As for greed, look at any supply operation in a combat zone. For whatever reason, rules and regs go right out the window once you get in-country. I had a medical supply officer strongly… Read more »
OLDMARINE

i kind of remember the same racket , the only thing we bought that was easy to get was warm beer lived in hot ass tents we would make a ice run into a small town with a jeep and a small trailer they would take ice orders it was like a 1 foot square and about 2and a half feet long for 25 cents

T
I agree. For one I don’t see a damn one of them – up there, being honorable, none. All of them locally or in my Hoosier state are worth a diddly damn. Sure good at censoring, ignoring, and causing trouble for us who dare question any of them and their professional misconduct or lack of keeping their oaths. For two. Punishing all for the behavior of others or a few is “Collective Punishment” a war crime. Which has become a… Read more »
OLDMARINE

well said T

OLDMARINE
just a NEW WORLD ORDER PUPPET Brigadier General Stephen A. Cheney, USMC (Ret) CEO, American Security Project at Cimate Week 2013 ….. wood stoves are a security threat ….. might be a insurance claim threat LOL…..i better go put another log on the fire 19 degrees here this AM ….and he says the world is demanding action, maybe he meant the puppets are. never heard any complaints from my neighbors, maybe because there to far away its nice when you… Read more »
OLDMARINE

this is off topic watch this on UTUBE ……… The Time George Bush Accidentally Told The Truth………..

OLDMARINE
the 21st Century Cures Act (Sec. 1124) The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) must revise health information privacy rules to allow: (1) use of protected information for research purposes to be treated as use for health care operations, (2) remote access to information by researchers, and (3) individuals to authorize future use of their information for research……….am i reading this right they can do whatever they want with your medical information
OLDMARINE

the more you look the more you find…….Sec. 2263) Clinical testing of medical devices or drugs no longer requires the informed consent of the subjects if the testing poses no more than minimal risk and includes safeguards……….who makes that decision a QUACK we are the big experiment

ANutterVet
@OLDMARINE – Yeah Brother, let em know what the story really is all about. Rat brown rice shooting scabby buttflakes of the Military Elite United Group. You folks need to be disbanded as well. Dam, you can’t even take care of the demeaning group of Marines United. Fuck you, you pricks. Ground crawling cockroaches and creeky sounding crickets. Your job description only relates to active duty personnel, not Veterans. You people just can’t give up your manipulative power and influence.… Read more »
91Veteran

You know, I would have to wonder, wouldn’t ALL researchers expect “minimal risk” until their testing proved otherwise?

cj
Shoooo…….go away………retire already. Fucking with veterans constitutional rights, is unbecoming of an officer, and in very poor taste. “Over 22,000 soldiers in the Army alone have received these bad paper discharges since 2009 due to mental health conditions.” So the Generals admitt to handing out illegal discharges, but do nothing to correct this grave misdeed. And veterans are the incompetent ones? I might add, your letter admitting wrong doing by handing out bad paper to soldiers with mental health conditions,… Read more »
namnibor
Also, I’d imagine having at least one pointy ‘Star’ up one’s ass would make an old dinosaur General pretty crabby all the time, esp. when called-out to publically display their loyalty to the witch dr.’s and VSO piggies and the VA Public Affairs Office to raise verbal hell against the threat to your cookie jar of fraud and denying the very RIGHTS we Veterans FOUGHT & SERVED TO PROTECT!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAND Corporation concurs that pointy stars shoved-up one’s ass can make… Read more »
91Veteran

Actually, Gabby Giffords and Mark Kelly’s staffers at Americans for Responsible Solutions wrote the letter. These hacks just said yes to having their name listed at the bottom.

cj
Nice work 91Veteran. Still I saved a copy of this letter to provide to my Veterans Assistance Commision, so they have even more ammo for those returning, that gave all and recieved none. The first case I heard about personally, was an Iraq soldier who had, if I remember correctly 4 tours, He had a weekend pass, and upon returning he pissed positive for alcohol. They put him out with an oth. I have been really pissed over this issue… Read more »
91Veteran
Cj, in my opinion whoever ordered that test for alcohol is chickenshit and should be burning shit barrels somewhere, unless whatever R&R place they had set up specifically barred alcohol and what he got was prohibited. Even with that, the punishment should have been an AR-15 extra duty and loss of pay. On the other hand, 4 tours suggest an NCO, so they may have held him to a higher standard, which still is nothing more than a convenient excuse… Read more »
cj

@91Veteran: Thank you again, good info. I can’t remember what the documentary was about that particular veteran. Here is another bs case “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU-x1eAb9wU” This man was extremely lucky he knew someone, to go too. When I hear of these soldiers getting fucked over, I tell everyone I can think of, and ask them to do the same. At some point if we all do this, the entire country one day might demand answers, and heads on platters.

cj

Give em hell OLDMARINE, I have to get ready and out the door. Have a great day.

namnibor
“[Sound like the program has all the makings of a kangaroo court?]” The kangaroos are wearing sheep’s clothing and are actually rats under the plumage. “[What do you think? Should we trust these guys (or) are they nothing more than has-been windbags?]” Something tells me that there’s a shitload of AFGE rats and Obamination Generals and those piggy VSO’s that are scared SHITLESS that the VA Fiduciary Program will see the disinfecting qualities of daylight. How many of those outspoken… Read more »
namnibor
Yes, I’m suggesting those outspoken windbags are NOT so-much afraid Veterans on “the list” will commit suicide but rather, are WAY MORE AFRAID of the fraud and corruption that’s well-steeped within the VA’s Fiduciary Program. Again, it’s not about Vets. It’s about being exposed. Why were these outspoken windbags NOT speaking-up when various Veterans set themselves on fire or shot themselves right outside the VAMC? Where was their outrage then? Now you see why this MUST be about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$….not Vets….we… Read more »
91Veteran
I think this is nothing more than leftist control freaks seeing their ability to control the populace through the full weight of the federal monster slipping away. I have no doubt this way of grabbing guns would have expanded far beyond veterans and seniors getting social security. All they would need is a lame excuse to implement it in each federal program. Ever had a student loan? Is it paid back? Are you a farmer or rancher getting some kind… Read more »
ANutterVet
The American General’s Elite Club. Your job is to take care of the active military. This supposedly is where your expertise lies as well. Focus your energy that deals with the military personal that is on active duty. If you really want to help Veterans and act like a sort of military parent, then get on the VA’s ass so that Veterans can get proper medical care, and to have their claims filed expediently. Other than this, I stand and… Read more »
namnibor

Ringknockers Anonymous Turds…”RATs”

ANutterVet

I stand corrected, “ass holes” instead of ass wholes. You got me all shook up this morning. Shootz, I didn’t even have my coffee yet. It’s good to know that there are many that are watching over the lives and best interests of Veterans. Thank you again, ass holes.

namnibor

I also stand corrected, “Ringknocker Asshole Turds”…”RATs”.

namnibor
The more I steep about this my brain only comes to one conclusive reaction: F^ck You, all you snowflake has-been windbags. Again, where was your collective *outrage* when Veterans were directly killed, mistreated, denied, f^cked with by the VA…oh, and that inconvenient scandal out at Phoenix VAMC or how about any Veterans that have set themselves on fire or blown brains out outside the VAMC they attend? Where was that outrage then? How about a week ago with Vets being… Read more »
ANutterVet

Get em and give em hell Nam! Were here.

ANutterVet

May your fingers be twisted, cracked, broken, and snapped as you reach for those baked sweets in the cookie jar.

namnibor

They have conveyor belts directly from that Veteran Cookie Jar via the Taxpayers. Some go as far as mainlining the cookie jar via a PIK Line directly flowing to their ass for brains, that’s why Dinosaurs like Isaacson have so much trouble with stability on their morning stairmaster sessions…that mainline gets in the way protruding from where the brains reside.

Crazy elf
I’ll guarantee y’all, NOT ONE OF THESE ASSWIPES USE VA FOR THEIR HEALTHCARE! Secondly, All four of the people, the letter was sent to, are either Dumpocraps or “RINO’S”! They ALL are doing their best to keep our President from doing his job! Do you think this “letter” is in response to the President’s “executive order”, signed recently, which is now requiring, by mandate, ALL government agencies to submit paperwork on “How they are spending taxpayers monies”? (I touched on… Read more »
namnibor
Also, I have been quite vocal on my disdain for Speaker of The House Paul Ryan…even before he was Speaker and if anyone remembers when he was part of the CBO (Congressional Budget Office), he and some female congress critter from Minnesota said, “Veterans have it too good”, (paraphrasing), and Ryan also was outspoken about Veterans collecting SSDI and VA Compensation…he also has ALWAYS wanted to shred Medicare and Medicaid. Nothing has changed. With the proposed ACA/Obamacare replacement, MANY vets… Read more »
namnibor

Michelle Bachman was the Minnesota congress critter along with Paul Ryan trying to strip Veteran’s benefits I was alluding to above.^

Crazy elf

namnibor, I remember what you said about Ryan. He is definitely a “wolf in sheep’s clothing!”
Plus, many on the Utube videos are now calling the President Trump’s healthcare plan – “Ryancare”! Because it is keeping many of the ACA ‘s, “Obamacare”, troubling aspects of taxes and other things as well!
If President Trump doesn’t get a handle on what Ryan and others are doing, we – the American Public – will be fucked AGAIN!

Dennis
Since when are the Gods Of War suddenly concerned about which human is vaporized and which is not? Aren’t Generals the ones who give guns to people and tell them who to kill? Tell me please, what moral authority does even ONE general have to lecture about unwarranted death? I know who the fuck put them in charge of slaughter, but I want to know who the fuck put them in charge of saving lives? The last I checked, the… Read more »
ANutterVet

@Dennis – Thanks Dennis for your reply. Fuck these pampered brats.

91Veteran

Dennis, to show the kind of officer these people are, read Chiarelli’s wiki page. He was given a “Hero of Military Medicine” award for supposedly doing things for TBI and reducing the stigma of PTSD.

Yet he signs on to a letter like this saying those same soldiers with PTSD are too dangerous to exercise their Constitutional rights.

“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_W._Chiarelli”

namnibor

General Prostitution of Hypocrisy by Generals.

91Veteran

Yeah if that pampered general deserved that award, why were so many put out in bad paper …after…a combat tour? Or two? Or three?

Windguy
I see the names Hayden and Petraeus on the same list and my Do Not Trust radar goes off. These are guys with decades in the Air Force and Army doing guest appearances. Betrayus leaves Iraq/Afghan as head of Mil Intel, and miraculously ends up heading the CIA while Hayden was head of CIA and NSA. We’re supposed to believe than Benjizzy was another sneak attack when CIA had a sizable detachment of ops a few miles away from the… Read more »
Crazy elf
Windguy, You said it straight. Our government, not all but a majority, have all but forgotten the oaths they took to “protect and serve” the American People through the Constitution and Bill of Rights! Nowadays it seems the corruption IS in plain sight. It’s as though they believe nothing can or will be done to them. I believe they might be correct. As I’ve said, Until President Trump gets a handle on all the corruption going on, he’ll never be… Read more »
Lem

Signing in

james gallegos

That is Dumb and lame ! If any one wanted to commit suicide by using a Gun, They can find one anywhere and there are hundreds of other ways they can do it.

It Plain Nonsense.

How can smart people be so Dumb ?

Bill
I am suprised Petraus is allow to speak in public without McCains dick shoved up is ass. Maybe they are just changing positions. Did any of these general’s ever write as position paper against fighting a war because troop deaths could be prevented? In other words take this weapon and kill, ok you are done with you now, thanks for protecting America and we have decided you have no further rights. When you turn your life over to a master… Read more »
Jo3n
So, these generals are the ones behind Veterans for common sense? Where have they been? Agree with nearly everyone on blog. I’m not giving up my lighter. I’ve known Veterans who said they were suicidal, just to get into the VA Hospital to have other issues dealt with. I thought the VA was supposed to get more friendly towards Veterans, what happened to that? Is that their answer to suicides? In lieu of decent medical and mental care? Common Sense?… Read more »
gary

I suggest that all members Of Congress who were Draft-Dodgers be banned from owning weapons known as Firearms. That should extend to all Family members since they have the Coward gene.

Tommy Distefano

Yeah, like the draft dodgers Donald Trump Ted Nugent and Dick Cheney.

Three hawks that never sacrificed a single thing for this country but still get the support of idiots scared of an enemy that does not exist.

It has always been a Rich man’s war paid with the poor man’s blood.

The real enemy controls everything you read, watch and think.

Wake up

gary
Since it seems there are so many Draft-Dodgers in Congress it would be nice to have a list of them. Maybe since we’re at it put anyone who Failed to Register here in the United States for the Selective Service when they turned 18 be denied access to weapons since in fact they too are dodging, when Trump starts our next War. In the Second World War “War Profiteering ” was a Crime, unlike all the “No-Bid Contracts” giving away… Read more »
Tommy Distefano
Should we trust these guys are are they nothing more than has-been windbags? That is a good question Or should we trust the useless opinion of the “Never-was” valiant Vocational Rehabilitation Warrior? You are a Cuck in wolf’s clothing. Your whole existence is based upon fighting the Evil VR&E Empire. You are a valorous man encouraging people to support your business that encourages people to be reliant on the government and suck dry everything they can from the VA since… Read more »
namnibor

~~~~GURGGLE~~~~ Rotten Cabbage? Melting Snowflake? VSO Piggy? Swamp Gas all the same.

Crazy elf

Yea, namnibor – We definitely got “Rotten Cabbage Smell” permeating among disabled veterans this afternoon.
This ain’t the time or blog to be a fuckin’ TROLL!

Benjamin Krause
A couple things here, Tommy. Off the cuff, it sounds like you are a bitter man who was unsuccessful advocating for himself against VA. Folks that say things like you did above generally have that bitter, VA screwed me even though I am a brave combat veteran, attitude in their back-pocket somewhere. There are many ways a person can be “valiant,” and it sounds like you are confused about what the word means. Valiant simply means a person who possesses… Read more »
namnibor

I really like the word “dauntless”. It’s a synonym of “valiant”, but “dauntless” just has more pizazz!! 🙂 (nobody doubts your valor nor dauntless fight to make the VA a better and safe place for Veterans, Ben)

Crazy elf

Hey, Tommy,
I was at “Ft. Polk” (1969) as a drill instructor at the “Vietnam Village”!
With what you just wrote about this blog today, I can guarantee you, you would still be “shoveling shit” there, if I had my way!

ANutterVet

@Tommy Distefano “Distant Tommy”- “come out from your hole, troll.” I smell something. It stay stanky like da wholesale fish market next to the pier. And, I don’t buy dat kine fish.

Ex va

@ Tommy Distefano, you have issues dude!!! You wreik of failure!!! Lame!!!! Get rid of the excess baggage you would feel better!!

Crazy elf
Hey, y’all, check this video out from; “Not Fake News” dated: 13 March 2017 titled; BREAKING: President Trump Just Signed A New Order That Will Completely DRAIN THE SWAMP!” Y’all gotta watch this video, please! From the video, The agencies have; quote; “…180 days to submit a plan to end wasteful spending or risk being closed down!” Maybe this is the “reason” behind “WHY” a few VHA employees were ‘badmouthing’ the incompetence of their leadership yesterday, when my wife and… Read more »
namnibor

Here’s the direct link to ^ video: “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yozKPePAk04”

Crazy elf

Hey, namnibor – I got a feeling there’s a lot of government employees right now shittin’ their pants, wondering “IF” their “(useless) job description” will go “bye-bye!”
You know, like the ones just standing around at VHA’s and VBA’s nationwide not doing anything most of the day!
I know those at the VHA in Orlando weren’t very happy about their ‘Leadership’!

ANutterVet
@Crazy elf , @Namnibor – Until the VA is specifically mentioned that this Federal Agency is going to be reorganized and reformed, I’m not holding my breath. If POTUS implements an auditing of the VA and a dam good house cleaning, then the leaders of the VA, VHA, and VBA’s would already be scrambling, crying, and complaining, verified by MSM news articles. There are way too many leakers that have access to Trump’s moves. Word would already be out into… Read more »
91Veteran
Nothing pisses me off more than some jackass that once wore a uniform thinking that gives them the right to push a political agenda, and that is EXACTLY what this is. You talk about studies Ben. Before these facists get too far along at removing the rights of their fellow Americans, one would think they would spell out exactly how a veteran is determined to need a fiduciary. What exact steps does the VA take? Is there any regard to… Read more »
91Veteran

I forget to add. Look at the Twitter timeline for Americans for Responsible Solutions at @resp_solutions. Nothing more than left wing, anti-gun activism.

namnibor
@Crazy elf- Just saw on national news that today down in Florida at a VA Hospital they still had not placed a picture of Pres. Trump up so some Veterans made large prints and framed as well as VA Sec. Shulkin picture…the fucking VA took them down because “they were not OFFICIAL portraits/photos”….which is *code* for a couple possible things: 1) The AFGE Union and the VA have a Contract to make someone at the VA oodles of $$$ on… Read more »
Crazy elf

Haven’t seen it yet, namnibor.
Like I’ve been told before by friends in other states, what’s on their TVs isn’t played elsewhere!
Gotta feeling we’re not going to see it here unless it’s on the national news (cable or satellite)!

namnibor

@Crazy elf and ALL:
Here you go: Breaking News!
Controversy over President Trump’s photo at VA Medical Center

“http://cbs12.com/news/local/controversy-over-president-trumps-photo-at-va”

OLDMARINE

portraits have been removed because they have not been authenticated and portraits on display at the VA need to come from the central office. WHAT A BULLSHIT EXCUSE

namnibor
“[There was nothing on the wall and it was disrespectful to a lot of veterans. Proud of the fact the local vet community got it done. Walked in there, we made it happen,” said Beau Brumfield, a veteran who helped get the photos displayed. But their accomplishment didn’t last long. Within hours, management at the VA took down the pictures. “Ridiculous! He’s our president. His picture deserves to go up and should go up,” said Ron Bailey, a veteran from… Read more »
namnibor
Here’s the first part of that article…the reason I cut/pasted article is because the news website had way too much spam advertising pop-ups and wanted to save you all the pain of that: Just place this on top of the bottom half I posted erroneously above: “[… Medical Center AA    SUBURBAN WEST PALM BEACH (CBS12) — A presidential picture at the West Palm Beach VA Medical Center is M.I.A. Local veterans turned to a Florida congressman to… Read more »
91Veteran

Wouldn’t it be interesting if one day when Trump was down at Mar-A-Lago that he went to visit that VA and said, yes, I can say that is a picture of me so I guess you can say it’s authentic?

Crazy elf
namnibor, my wife just sent the article, (concerning the portraits), off to President Trump, his son ERIC and others to inform them of this “egregious incident”! Whether anything comes of it remains a ?????! I wonder how that new Congressman of West Palm Beach, Fl, who served in the military, feels about the VHA management removing the portraits? I also wonder how he feels about VHA management saying the “Cellphone video was illegal?” It’s sad to see anyone so disrespected!… Read more »
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