Flow Health Inc Genomic Data

In December, VA was just days away from giving access to veteran MVP genomic data without completing a due diligence review of a Russian affiliated company.

Then Under Secretary David J. Shulkin, MD, immediately terminated the deal after it was exposed on DisabledVeterans.org. VA says no veteran data was shared prior to the termination.

Since then, December 20, 2016, I have been fighting with VA over a FOIA request to confirm VA’s side of the story. Today, I received a copy of the original termination letter signed by Shulkin after initially receiving a “no records” block and tackle response in March.

I wanted to share this story immediately with the hope that it will create interest on Capitol Hill to reform VA’s research partner protocol because it shows just how close VA was to giving away our genomic data from the MVP genomic program to a Russian affiliated company.

Think your data is safe? Do you even know who has access to your data other than VA?

If you think you know, you better keep reading. If you have no idea, you better keep reading.

A Little Background And The Russian Connection

This story counts as a “two points for the little guy” for doing the 10 minutes of Google background research multiple high-level officials within VA were unable or unwilling to do to protect access to the Million Veteran Program (MVP) and its genomic data.

Not only was the CEO of Flow Health Inc a serial problem child with his startups, but his company had a Russian sister company (interpreted by Google Translator as “Hals Flow” or “Flow Hales” depending on the listing) working behind the scenes that I exposed in January.

According to a job listing on Google’s Indeed, the Flow Health partner “Flow Hales” promised, “All employees are offered a stake in Flow Health, Inc., our American partner.” This jobs posting and numerous others like it listed the job location as Moscow, Russia.

Online, the names of numerous Flow Health stakeholders appear Russian, since 2014, which may be an indication that the Russian hiring initiative through the Russian partner was a success.

This past January, CEO Alex Meshkin later admitted his intent, which was to sell access to the data after Flow Health synthesized it within his company servers.

Yes, you are reading that correctly. Russian software programmers, possibly some of the same programs linked to the election scandal, were being recruited to work for Flow Health. And, those same programmers hired at the time (starting in 2014) would have ownership of the same company that was supposed to have access to your MVP genomic data.

It is worth noting the deal was originally inked October 28, 2016, but it was set to go into effect in late January after Trump was inaugurated.

According to Politico, in February, Flow Health hired Avenue Strategies, a lobbying firm owned by Corey Lewandowksi, to help lobby VA on this issue. Avenue Strategies just hired Mike Rubino, a former Trump advisor and campaign leader. Rubino was not offered a job in the administration.

RELATED: Flow Health Lobbying Filing By Avenue Strategies

According to a disclosure filing, Rubino and Barry Bennett, another Trump advisor, were hired by Flow Health to lobby VA on “Health care data policy; Department of Veterans Affairs Cooperative Research and Development Agreement”.

Have you called your Congressman or Senator yet? Do you think your data is safe from these profiteers?

RELATED: Flow Health Lays Out Sketch Profit Plan For Veteran Genomic Data

Had the deal gone through in December, very valuable and potentially dangerous genomic data would have been sold to the highest bidder by Flow Health, at least access to it, wherever in the world that bidder might be.

Let’s not forget that genomic data of soldiers or veterans can be used to create targeted biological or chemical weapons.

Of course, after flaws with the deal were exposed by me, VA canceled the deal and was quick to assert no veteran data was handed over prior to the cancellation. But in so doing, VA also admitted the agency failed to conduct proper due diligence review.

According to a VA spokesperson:

Entering into such an agreement with any company requires additional research, consultation with medical and privacy experts and appropriate, senior-level signoffs to make sure the use of the data comports with the letter and spirit of applicable regulations and policies while also protecting Veterans’ sensitive dataThat was not fully done in this instance(emphasis added)

Scared yet? Wondering who else may have our data? Me too.

RELATED: VA Admits Due Diligence Failure In Flow Health Deal

Flow Health Inc – MVP Genomic Data #FAIL

Today, VA finally verified problems with the shady deal it had with Flow Health Inc, which the agency canceled in writing after I exposed the nature of the problems, here.

In a letter signed by then Under Secretary for Health David Shulkin, MD, the now VA Secretary canceled an agreement that would have allowed an apparent US shell company (the San Francisco address appears to be a front… or a UPS box) with a Russian sister company access to veteran genomic data in the Million Veteran Program (MVP).

I wrote about Flow Health and the agreement it had with VA on December 20, 2016.

RELATED: AI Firm Flow Health Run By ‘Hall Of Shame’ Former NASCAR Owner

After publication, VA immediately canceled the agreement via the letter below. For the past three months, I have sought this letter (linked at bottom), and VA repeatedly said the communication did not exist.

For some context, here is the sequence of events leading up to this point.

Alex Meshkin, CEO of Flow Health Inc, received an agreement with VA to access MVP data at no cost. Meshkin intended to sell access to the data after it was synthesized by his company. This was October 28, 2016.

I caught wind of the deal and investigated Meshkin. That investigation revealed numerous flopped business deals, a curious lawsuit against two of his former companies, referred to as “Nutzz and Bang” by the judge (Nutzz.com and Bang Racing), direct familial connections with Iran, and a sister company in Russia.

Below is the short list of Meshkin’s serial flops I found in a few minutes of searching on Google (Remember, VA admitted it failed to conduct a due diligence review of the company prior to entering into the agreement.).

Flow Health CEO Serial Flops

A review of his serial failures includes a chronic inability to anticipate market realities while spending investors’ money. The company list includes:

  • SurfBuzz.com – a now defunct website idea focused on paying website surfers fake money they can use to bid on real products like Porsches. The company reportedly closed after Meshkin and his brother ran out of the $3.5 million in seed money. That experience earned SurfBuzz.com a place in a “dot coms to dot bombs” list published in 2000. “The online auction site informed its customers that it ‘will no longer be operational nor continue to exist’, after burning through its cash.”(emphasis added)
  • Bang Racing – a now defunct Toyota NASCAR truck racing team where the self-proclaimed “whiz kid” raised $15 million to run a race team that later flopped after Meshkin reportedly stopped paying his employees and vendors. His performance as owner earned him a spot on the “Hall Of Shame” list of NASCAR owners.
  • Nutzz.com – a now defunct website development company that was paid over $1 million to build a NASCAR membership website. Investors recalled their contribution after becoming concerned Meshkin would not deliver. The matter was resolved in arbitration.
  • Bopaboo – a now defunct software company focused on selling used MP3’s. The recording industry did not respond well and forced the company to change its business model. Meshkin later acknowledged the flaw in the firm’s economic model.
  • GroupMD – a company dubbed the Facebook of health care communications. It focused on turning your health care communications and related records between you and a doctor into a supposed secure version of Facebook.
  • Flow Health Inc – basically GroupMD with a new name. On LinkedIn, Meshkin described the company as, “Flow Health is building the world’s largest knowledge graph of medicine and genomics from over 30 petabytes of longitudinal clinical data drawn from 22 million people.” And by people, he means veterans. The entire business model is dependent on access and reselling processed genomic data that belongs to veterans.

Now, remember, as of last week, VA asserted no records existed related to the agreement or the cancellation of the agreement.

My immediate response to the “no records” answer from VA was:

Flow Health boasted it was about to access 22 million health records. VA Public Affairs acknowledged the agreement and that is was canceled. Are you telling me VHA has no record of the confirmed agreement or its cancellation? 

Initially, of course, the FOIA officer’s reply was basically, paraphrased, ‘Yes, we have no record of this.’

What you will note in the agreement cancellation I received this morning is that it was signed by Secretary David Shulkin when he was at VHA.

So, there should be no question VHA had a copy of this somewhere, meaning the FOIA officer in question was either being lazy or trying to obfuscate public scrutiny. My guess is a combination of both.

When you read VA Public Affairs’ response as to the cancellation on December 29, 2016, it becomes clear this Flow Health deal is an embarrassment to VA, and the agency likely did not want anyone to know more about what happened.

According to a VA spokesperson:

On December 20, the Department of Veterans Affairs terminated a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement with Flow Health Inc., a San Francisco-based company. We took this action after it was determined that the agreement, which involves genomic data from the Million Veteran Program (MVP), may violate regulations, VA policy, and VA’s longstanding commitment to our Veterans to protect their data. (emphasis added)

It is important to note that no Veteran data were shared nor compromised.

Entering into such an agreement with any company requires additional research, consultation with medical and privacy experts and appropriate, senior-level signoffs to make sure the use of the data comports with the letter and spirit of applicable regulations and policies while also protecting Veterans’ sensitive dataThat was not fully done in this instance(emphasis added)

Launched in 2011, MVP – with more than 500,000 volunteer participants – is the largest genomic database of its kind in the world. Participants donate blood from which DNA is extracted. MVP will accelerate our understanding of disease detection, progression, prevention and treatment by combining this genomic data with rich clinical and environmental data. MVP will allow the nation’s top researchers to perform the most cutting-edge science to treat some of the nation’s most troubling diseases – not just among Veterans, but those that impact individuals worldwide.

VA Termination Letter From Then Under Secretary David Shulkin, MD

And here is the answer we were waiting for from VA on the Flow Health – Alex Meshkin deal since December 2016:

Dear Mr. Meshkin:

Pursuant to Article 10.3 of the Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) executed on October 28, 2016, between the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and Flow Health for the project titled, “Build a Medical Knowledge Graph with Deep Learning to Inform Medical Decision-Making and Identify Evidence to Prevent Disease Onset, Make Previously Unrecognized Diagnoses, and Personalize Treatment,” VA hereby terminates the agreement effective immediately.

VA is terminating the CRADA for the reasons outlined below:

– The scope of the technical tasks, milestones, and deliverables as described in the Statement of Work lack the necessary detail for the Veterans Health Administration (VHA) to determine whether they are technically feasible or whether they can be accomplished while complying with existing VA policy covering privacy and data security.

– The scope of work proposed in the CRADA to provide personalized clinical recommendations using health and genomic data, analyzed with proprietary machine learning techniques, is sufficiently novel and untested as to constitute research rather than clinical development. The CRADA omits mention of any of the necessary policies governing conduct of research in VA including, but not limited to, the Common Rule, the Privacy Act of 1974, and the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, (HIPAA). It is not possible to tell whether the work, involving the receipt of identifiable data, could be conducted in compliance with these policies.

– The CRADA directs VA to provide access to Flow Health through Web services and other interfaces to extract data from a wide variety of data sources, including research data collected under consent such as the Million Veteran Program (MVP). MVP data can only be accessed in accordance with VHA Office of Research and Development policies and procedures and as permitted by the subjects’ informed consent document and HIPAA authorization through specific policies and processes for access to the MVP data as published in its Privacy Impact Statement and in accordance with the MVP Certificate of Confidentiality. MVP participants are not consented for the return of clinical information as outlined in the CRADA.

Sincerely,

David J. Shulkin        LaVerne H. Council

So, that about wraps it up for Flow Health, but more concerning is what VA intends to do in order to prevent unlawful access to our data by other companies.

I can only assume Flow Health is not the only firm to realize VA is weak on how it conducts evaluations of agreements like this one.

What kind of investigation or reforms should VA be performing that it is likely not doing despite being exposed in this embarrassing manner by a journalist using Google for 10 minutes?

Flow Health Termination Confirmation Document

280 COMMENTS

  1. Scary shit, man! How many other Russian owned Corporations and Agencies are undercover here in the United States and who do they work with? How many Americans have taken money and benefits from that Communist Nation? We need to secure our “Corporate Borders” from Nations that can access our Veterans records, which also contain very personal private information.

      • 91 – I think the thieves have been around for a lot longer than that. The difference is that in the last few decades, “they” raised the level of sophistication and no longer care about remaining clandestine.

        And now, “THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING – THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING”

      • I will agree with that Windguy.

        The thieves have not only gotten more blatant about their theft, they are after bigger and bigger piles of loot.

    • VA DATHCARE WILL KILL VETS FOR THE BONOUS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  2. @Benjamin Krause, J.D., thank you for saving Veterans lives and who knows what other disastrous acts that could have happen to us without you intervention to stop these careless acts without our consent. God Bless you and thank you again for your hard work.

  3. Outfuckingstanding Ben. The posts you deliver tell many of us one thing, you’re the only person that has a Veterans best interests in mind. Thank you brother!!

  4. Great sleuthing, Benjamin!!

    The VA loves to boast about the Million Veteran Project Genomic Data but guess what? Iceland has been doing this for a very long time with The Human Genome Project, and just watched another show on it on Science Channel this past week.

    Why is it the VA always has to duplicate projects already being utilized by professional medical community with their own huge $$$ projects? Why not utilize data the REAL professional medical community is using from Human Genome Project?
    The VA’s MVP is for the VA’s own nefarious intentions, and almost selling us all with the bathwater was exactly what they intended all along, in my humble opinion.
    The treatment of very hard to treat or formerly untreatable cancers and such are now being treated using Iceland’s Human Genome Project. Look it up.

    I happened to have been stationed in Iceland and absolutely love the people and culture there and I would certainly trust the Human Genome Project they operate but I would not trust the VA with the DNA of a pet dead snake.
    Great article, Ben! Might cause some more swamp gas eruptions on blog from the piggy VSO’s.

  5. Here is how Alex Meshkin reports himself to linkedin dot com; From the “about me” section. READ WHAT ALEX HIMSELF WROTE ABOUT HIMSELF IN THE LAST LINE!

    I see now why VA fell in love with the guy;

    “Alex Meshkin is the Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Flow Health. Flow Health is the Operating System for Value-Based Care. Flow Health uses artificial intelligence to personalize care plans, a networked platform to automate workflows, and clinical staff to coordinate patient care.

    Alex has built and operated companies in the pharmaceutical, automotive and healthcare industries. The common denominator has been leveraging software to enable an unfair advantage.”

    Note to Ben – this info was discovered by me in under four minutes while sitting on my toilet waiting to pinch off a VA contract. Maybe VA folks shoild be limited to toilet thinking? Oh wait a minute…they are.

    • Immediately take that lump of basic ingredients for a VA Contract and use a rolling pin you will throw away afterwards, to flatten-out the brown form matter into VA recognizable 81/2×11 Contract size and wait for the big bucks to roll-in.
      The contract would of course be for more brown form rolled-out contracts as fast as you can squeeze them out in your schedule. The only thing the VA asks is that you be mindful of people that may have peanut and corn allergies. The more pure the brown matter, the more $$$$.

  6. @gary, dennis, warhorse, Ex va…

    I just added a section at the beginning of this article to include a quote from Politico that Corey Lewandowski’s lobbying firm Avenue Strategies was just hired by Flow Health. The firm is loaded with Trump advisors to hit up VA about the research deal…

    Take a look at that and let me know what you guys think…

    • Ben, That is just another sad excuse for an American, Corey Lewandowski, who has been selling Medical records to the Russians for their purposes under the guise of “Capitalism”. There should be a point where Loyalty to one’s own Nation should not be Sold off to our Enemies for a Profit, and control of records that also reveal our relatives genetic makeup through DNA screening and comparisons. Thanks, Ben.

    • Looks like the weasel was trying to manage behind the scenes as to try to avoid some ‘conflict of interest’ in being a former Trump adviser…a rather roundabout way of ensuring you get a contract.

      I was under the belief (what Pres. Trump said), that he loathed lobbyists and would have no part of it and eliminate lobbyists from D.C. swamp?

      Need to digest this more. Great sleuthing Benjamin! Keep those visegrips on their balls. 🙂

    • Ben made a terrible mistake – he asked my opinon…

      ….well they hired a guy who has the right connections – (I am on a linkedin rampage) Here is the headline from the guys webpage ostensibly put up to further his career;

      “Corey Lewandowski
      Campaign Manager Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.
      The Trump Organization’
      (attended) Naval War College”

      Is this guy French? Because surfing his linkedin page he sure has a lot of associates who endorse him and also list French as a skill they are marketing. Luke Botting, for example, endorses Corey on Linkedin and only lists his current job as the US Department of Treasury. Very little on the guy except a French connection because he lists two proficient languages; english and french.

      Another endorsement from a man listed as a French speaking man who runs a “risk and security” biz with “extensive West and Central Africa experience”. He thinks Corey is a great human and endorses the man. Yet more endorsements from folks in Quebec, which is a French speaking province in Canada.

      Does it occur to you or anyone else that the VA, who disregards federal law which specifies American citizenship of its employees, has granted access to some of the most sensitive information about vets there is to foreign folks?

      The federal law allows them to bypass the citizenship requirements (in fairness) on the whim of officials in charge really, but I will be blunt here; Since nearly every single facility is manned right up to the Chief Of Staff level with people who owe their allegience to another country, why on Earth would we toss them the keys to the vault of information about vets who have proven their worth to our own country? Vets who maybe had these foreign countries in the crosshairs of American weapons and who were willing to pull the trigger?

      I once told a reporter friend that it alarmed me to see so very many foreign folks working at VA. Her liberal rebuke was that we are a nation of immigrants and that this is healthy for America.

      Is it? Really?

      Let us assume for one moment that Americans like you and I are not the only world citizens that have a deep and abiding patriotism and love of country. Let us assume that the men and women from other nations feel about America the same way the protesters in their country of origins feel about America. Just take a look at history, or go to France yourself and you will discover America is despised like no other nation abroad. If I were tasked with undermining America as a foreign patriot, part of step one would be to place loyal operatives into the VA. Just think what one single well trained foreigner could accomplish within VA. Think of the thousands of vets one single man could grab up information about from screens strewn across our landscape and left unattended. Who goes to VA? Men and women who know a WHOLE lot about national security and who are generally pretty vulnerable. Perfect conditions for predators who do not love, cherish, or respect America.

      Ben is right about the VA seemingly using our own CIAs book on undermining a foreign culture which they use as a guide for management decisions. There is of course an alternate possibility; the book comes from another country.
      Conspiracy theory? Maybe.
      Are there billions and billions and billions of dollars at stake? Yep.
      Have people killed for less? Yep.
      Is it a good idea to open up such a delicate aspect of our nation to foreign nationals and give them unprecedented access to not just the genetic data of vets – is it good that foreigners can pull up records at will on anyone who has served our country? I don’t think so, and with respect to my reporter friend, I still think we have let the Huns in through the front gate. I still think it is a very bad idea.

      Are we safe from the world? Not if the world has anything to say about it. Do they? Yep, at VA the rest of the world is represented at every level despite the federal regulation specifying American citizenship.

      What do I think about Corey? I think the French speaking people love the guy. Freedom Fries anyone?

      P.S. After this oost Ben will NEVER ask my opinion about somebody again!

    • So while Council got moved on after the election, Meshkin is not letting all that cheese get away without a fight.

      Why is it so many web sites with Meshkins name on them look like they were tossed up to show buzz about him?

    • My first thoughts when i read this article back in December was genetic bioweapons, and it was so very disturbing that the va would share our DNA data with a private company and with it also being done without our consent.

      Remember those who have said that the First World War was chemical, the Second World War was nuclear, and the Third World War would be biological? I remember this in a biological warfare class in the military and that the threat was very real and this was over 20 years ago.

      With the va arrogance as we know it and its with total disregard to laws and without any regard to a Veteran it is very possible to have biological weaponry targeted at the Veteran population having our dna would be very possible for what could be called a Revolution of Military Affairs (RMA).

      I do not want to sound so pessimistic. This potential threat can be looked at in the most devastating examples with not so many steps to get there. That is what makes it real to be so dangerous. The genome sequencing science made steps faster to biological weapons on a different level and the science is being shared with many countries all over the world.

      Governments do not have the restrictions on this potential development of genomic bioweapons in comparison to nuclear weapons. Researchers can communicate rapidly with this technology than with any other potential weaponry. Again with no government controls on this potential science. Bioweapons are far more international, far more spread out, and far more diverse than any nuclear science because there is no restrictions for development of this bioscience.

      My opinion is that any foreign threat would love to have Veterans DNA and if the department of veterans affairs is participating in this, that act should be considered a threat to national security. This genome technology is too new and there are not laws to govern this science. What security will be in place to insure that it will only be used for clinical performance? When the data is gone it is unsecured.

      I could image a foreign power would think like this. What common markers of DNA does the majority of Veterans share, could we genetically manufacture a virus to link to a disease that they are not vaccinated for or just create a super flu bug or disease to eliminate the hosts.

      We Veterans all have had some experience with national security and secured data in the military. The va needs to look as everything as a potential security risk dealing with our health information and personal information. The va should not open their wallet to special interests or anyone who claims to solve all their clinical problems or who has their answer to efficiency and quality problems.

    • The VA veterans committee, would ask who was fired over this. Who was in charge. Who was responsible ?

      No one, those in charge have moved positions (jobs). Who was responsible ? No me !

      I am glad the Secretary kept his eye on the ball and did the right thing. If he continues to do this, maybe just maybe, he will find out who, what when and how and take appropriate action.

      Heads have to roll ! we all know this is not their first mistake. Action speaks louder than words.

      Way to go Ben, nice Job.

  7. Thank You Ben!
    Isn’t anything safe anymore? I guess not! Too much shit happening to veterans – and it ain’t good – as fuckin’ usual……..

    Too damn tired this Friday. Gotta take some time off. Lay down and get some rest. Working my ass off around the house for wifey the past couple of days!
    You know – the
    “To do list for Wifey!”

  8. Why surprised? We’ve been hacked by Russia and China for a reason. A take over by oligarchs friendly to autocratic government by those considered elite.

    They recruited enough of us to get Trump elected. I say us because I bought in too.

  9. Ben, Great job at ferreting out this careless, if not criminal agreement and putting a stop to it.

    However, when they announced the MVP, my first thought was, trust the VA to keep participants anonymous? On another site, a lot of veterans were all for this. I had my reservations and am glad I never participated.

    I still remember my dad, a WWII vet saying, “never volunteer for anything.”

  10. @Benjamin Krause, JD: Ben, there are no words that can fully express the thanky you, you deserve. This is no little matter you have shed the light of truth on. This is a HUGE, IMPORTANT, UNBELIEVABLE, and INCONCIEVABLE sack of GOVERNMENT SHIT, that ALMOST flew under the radar.

    Did you do that, Shermin Gillums, or Joe Chenelly? NO YOU FUCKING DIDN’T, DID YOU? Ben did, because HE is the one looking out for veterans best interest, NOT YOU. Go try to discredit your fucking mirror you fucktards. Take that to your next “secret” meeting at the WH.

    Ima fucking shoot something real soon. Ben, ready, aim:
    ░░░░░░███████ ]▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▃==========O>——-(+)V.S.O.B.S.
    ▂▄▅████BEN███▅▄▃▂
    I███████████████████]
    ..◥⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙▲⊙◤–FIRE.!!! Wholly fuck, I feel rapturous right now…..

  11. After posting this article, it was at the top of the Google News feed for about 20 minutes.

    However, now, none of my articles on Flow Health Inc are anywhere when you look for them in Google News. They have completely wiped out the negative press from my website discussing the Flow Health deal being axed by Shulkin. When you type in “Flow Health” Inc the articles are gone. If you type in DisabledVeterans.org in the Google News finder, they show up again, kind of.

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#tbm=nws&q=%22Flow+Health%22+disabledveterans.org

    But this one is still up from VentureBeat:

    https://venturebeat.com/2017/01/25/millions-of-veteran-health-care-records-are-being-used-to-train-this-startups-artificial-intelligence/

    • @Ben, thanks for the excellent research that you’ve done in finding out that the VA can’t protect Veterans important genetic and health information.

      @Ben, you forgot to put your links in parentheses for the moderator to check before they get posted. What’s up with that? After being checked, can our links that we post in our comments be listed live? Thanks, ANutterVet

      After your research being confirmed by the letter from Shulkin and Council. What a last name, I’m concerned about Laverne Council, she may be a genetically engineered humanoid blowback from Laverne of the Laverne and Shirley show. Scary fucking shit that there was almost a breach of contract where the mistake could have been on the side of the Department of Veterans Affairs. Such dumb fucks, and they expect Veterans to trust the VA physicians that treat them? Fuck that. This is not a robot, ANutterVet

    • @Ben, when entering Flow Health Veterans Affairs you come up NUMBER 1 in a Google search. Right on, enter four words and your past articles are listed one and two. Dated April 5, 2017 11:37pm

  12. Ho Lee Fuk!

    This will be a long comment. Something the Executive Directors of various VSO groups should probably read to understand the kind of organization they are siding with against their own members.

    In order of the column.

    You mention access to records. It would likely be better access than veterans have through that stupid Blue Button costing millions and down for maintenance every 10 minutes. I went to a Choice appointment recently at a local hospital. During the appointment, I was by the NP (more professional than most VA docs) that I could access the MRI through their secure web site, just ask the clerk for the code. I did, the report was there within 48 hours rather than weeks if at all through the VAs Blue mess.

    I keep wondering what kind of review this disaster had before “senior signoffs” too place, and it seems as if no review took place. Shulkins letter proves it. The VA PR statement proves it.

    Who stood to gain from this? Who within the VA only saw dollar signs rather than the disaster this sharing would be? Who helped push this through “senior signoffs”? Who gave Meshkin an “in” to get to the point of an agreement?

    More on that interesting stuff later, but it looks to me as if this fiasco traveled far down the tracks before your reporting blew up their plans.
    What kind of FOIA officer thinks people are so stupid that anyone would accept the nonsense that no records were available after their own PR department announced it?

    That FOIA officer needs to be flipping burgers somewhere because it’s clear they refuse to follow the law unless forced.

    Ben, perhaps that FOIA officer needs more work.

    How about requesting the contract? Or any proposal? The plan for how they would protect privacy like Shulkins letter suggests is available? Or the Statement of Work?

    Shulkins letter could be read as Meshkin providing that Statement of Work, but federal contractors write Statements of Work telling a contractor what work they are required to do. That SOW should be what the VA provided Meshkin.

    Or, if that is not enough, FOIA any VA documentation mentioning Flow Health which should include internal communications…which the VA IG or congress should have.

    At least include who all these seniors are that signed off on this mess.

    You know, the same seniors who ignored the VA policies and regulations when they thought this was a good idea, and signed off on it.

    How the hell can vets expect hospital doctors to follow policy and regulations when senior VA leaders ignore them in favor of dollar signs?

    What is disgusting about this is again veterans being used as test subjects, clearly involving a hell of a lot more health information than just a blood draw as the VA likes to claim in downplaying this. Its clear they would have allowed access to determine other health conditions of the veteran after that blood draw.

    As I commented some months ago about Meshkin selling access to this, the proprietary language Shulkin uses makes it clear that Meshkin was going to treat this data as his property once he had it, and everyone else would pay him to get it, likely on a subscription basis. So much per year, with possibly tiered levels of access depending on how much was paid.

    And no conman like Meshkin would only sell to one entity with cash. He would be selling to anyone for the right price.

    Shulkin mentions the Statement of Work not following privacy or HIPAA law, but golly, there were senior signoffs!

    Now, the interesting part.

    If you notice, Shulkins letter terminating this lunacy was signed off on by him and LaVerne H. Council.

    LaVerne H was the VA Assistant Secretary for IT and Chief Information Officer appointed by Obama in July 2015. She was also Chief ITO with Johnson and Johnson, Dell, and on the Board for the March of Dimes.

    She may have been the one pushing this, on a personal March of Dollars.

    Yeah, an Obama appointee. Now, as of March 6, 2017 according to the press release, she is now the Senior VP and General Manager of MITREs Center for Connected Government.

    MITRE. The other RAND.

    But hey! She won an iCare award from McDonald!

    “”https://www.mitre.org/news/press-releases/mitre-appoints-dr-laverne-h-council-senior-vice-president-and-general-manager””

  13. Here is the Flow Health lobbying filing. Notice they assert no foreign ownership of the company.

    https://soprweb.senate.gov/index.cfm?event=getFilingDetails&filingID=3E364292-E725-4384-86EE-28B6D67E3BB8&filingTypeID=2

    And, they list their location as San Fran in a building without listing the suite number. The company is still not registered as a business operating in California. “Health Flow” shows up but not “Flow Health”.

    https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/CBS/SearchResults?SearchType=CORP&SearchCriteria=flow+health&SearchSubType=Keyword

    • @Ben, Seymore Klearly, made a post in “Flow health inc. lays out sketchy profit plan for Veterans Genomic Data”. Seymore’ post 1/26/2017 @ 10:34 am. states that a Alex Demidov, investor from russia with flow health, inc. Need to look at this.

  14. Oh what a tangled web.

    If you do a search on “LaVerne Council” Meshkin, you come up with interesting links.

    The first is to a tweet sent Sept 2016 by a person from Stanford listed as the Chief Innovation Engineer. Her tweet mentions LaVerne Council with the hashtags #PrecisionMedicine and #MedX, which may have been some health conference.

    The tweet was retweeted by none other than Alex Meshkin.

    Same as another tweet by another person from Stanford that is either a shrink, software developer or both. Her tweet also mentions Council.

    Her single retweet was also from Alex Meshkin.

    Hmmm.

    Further down the links are to something called Health 2.0…which seems to be another health conference.

    What’s interesting is that the site features a video of a fireside chat with LaVerne Council from October 2016, and on the same page is a link to another video showing Health 2.0 in the background is none other than Alex Meshkin.

    I don’t know why the discrepancy in dates, but it seems like the same conference.

    Both a connected to a health2con dot com web site.

    Some interesting things also come up when searching on #Health2con and @BlueTopaz.

    Screenshots of all.

    • @91Veteran: Some crazy shit right there on it’s own……….The most corrupt administration ever to exsist. I hope one day, everyone of them chokes to death on a damn chicken bone, because we shure as hell know they will never be prosecuted. I can’t type what I am really thinking, but I am pretty sure we would all be on the same damn page.

    • “The Meshkin-Shulkin Sellout , Season 1: Asses & Elbows”

      “The Meshkin-Shulkin Sellout, Season 2: Heads-Up Asses”

      “The Meshkin-Shulkin Sellout, Season 3: The Krause Cockblock”

      Season 4 has been canceled due to the unexpected presence of accountability brought-in by the valiant Benjamin Krause. Meshkin will instead be granted a contract to print more travel pay fraud posters for the VA. 🙂

      • I wish I had your confidence Nam that season 4 was cancelled.

        From the looks of Meshkins new lobbying contract with Lewandowski, season 4 is being revived.

        Which reminds me.

        Who is fronting the money for Meshkin to do this? I doubt lobbying is cheap, particularly Lewandowski.

        I seem to recall from the last column Ben wrote on this that some doctor was involved, but I can’t see just him funding this scam.

        Who else is funding this ticket for the Gravy Train?

      • @91Veteran: I agree, someone wants that data at any cost, this isn’t the last we have heard on this issue. The MVP data must be worth more than platinum. Easy way to stop it is, put those involved in the first attempt, behind bars for a very long time. This is maddening.

  15. Recklessness. Shame on the VA for nearly handing over this data to the Russians or who ever bids the highest price. Once again Attorney Ben you have did a great service to the veteran community, and I just want to say thanks for all the hard work you do on behalf of veterans everywhere.
    Again…, I am Army vet 72-76, I started posting at this site back in Oct of 2016, about the time Attorney Ben was heading to Washington DC to attend the forum with the Board of Veterans Appeals. I monitor this website almost daily and I constantly tell fellow veterans to give it a try. There is a ton of quality information that flows from this website and nearly all the commentators seem like decent people who give a damn about this country like I do.
    I want the VA to cut out these foolish business deals and start treating us Veterans better. Give us our money, fix the broken healthcare system. Talk to us!!
    Again, thanks Attorney Ben for this article. I live in New Jersey and I am going to write/call my Congressman or any representative I can get on the phone. I think if the Russians would of got their hands on this data it may have reached a level on par with a National Security issue.
    The VA must stop treating Veterans like pawns in a game– as a Veteran who waited 14 years to resolve my claims and then be told : Service Connected at zero % or to just be denied other parts of my claims , my anger and hurt is still being felt, I can never accept what they did to me.
    I plan to reopen my claims one day and try again if I don’t die first, so to all Veterans out there just keep on fighting these VA officials and get your benefits.

  16. @Ben, 91Veteran, and ALL Y’all, this may be the scariest stuff to believe. I do believe. The connections between our enemies at VA, at least a few of our enemies, may come to light. Y’all have given this Vet a lot of things to read. I’ve heard the phrase, tip of the iceberg, but too often it doesn’t pan out. Perhaps this time. @Dennis, I may ask your opinion, someday, but you are right. I’ll make sure I want the answer. God Bless the Veterans, and our DNA……

  17. Just have to point out that I do recall flow health boosting they were receiving 22 million records. In a census during 2013 there were 21.8 million Veterans living in the US.

    Ben also points out the 22 million record boost. Seems to me the VA was giving him all VA Health Care records as well as the Department of Defense proving records of the Veterans who do not use the VA health Care system.

    • @Seymore I got this from FLOW HEALTH ON FACEBOOK…..the VA says Million Veteran Program its more like all the data. YOUR RIGHT………………………… Dive Insight:

      The work will involve integrating large amounts of data and looking for relationships between genomes and phenotypes to understand what different gene variants mean and an individual’s disease risk. The information will enable more precise diagnoses and individualized treatments, Flow Health said.

      The resulting knowledge graph will draw from over 30 petabytes of longitudinal clinical data culled from the personal health records of 22 million veterans spanning more than two decades. Patient information will be de-identified during analysis to protect privacy.

      Robert Rowley, chief medical officer at Flow Health, called the endeavor a “watershed moment for deep learning in healthcare.”……………..watershed= lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

      • Yeah, it’s work Iceland has already been doing for decades called ‘The Human Genome Project”, in which the MODERN medical world is benefiting from.

        Why is this project even necessary to duplicate? Insurance future losses projections? Yep, it all boils down ultimately to a solar sign or two from the Dept. of War Risk Management”.

      • I think there is a little more to it… they want it for comparison reasons ….Pollution at military bases is often hidden from view of military
        members serving there. With the exception of Camp Lejeune in North
        Carolina, neither the Department of
        Defense (DOD) nor the Department
        of Veterans Affairs (VA) has been required to notify service members or
        veterans that they were exposed to dangerous toxins as part of their
        miltary service.
        4
        The health impacts of heightened exposure to
        environmetal toxins are unclear, but some studies have shown a higher
        incidence of certain cancers among veteran populations.
        5
        Localized
        cocentrations of illness are particularly common around several military
        communities known to have environmental toxins.
        6

  18. *To All – Listen Up – – – -> On Monday, I’m contacting the VA and demanding that any genetic information, or whole DNA material or genetic subsets, or genetic markers, or any separated genetic material or stock, that the VA may have on file or in preserved cold storage, that first, all written material on file be delivered directly to me, and that all genetic material is to be destroyed, with confirmation. And then, that the VA doesn’t have my permission to collect any DNA material from any blood, tissue, urine, hair, culture, or any other type of samples collected from me when conducting medical health testing.

    I strongly recommend that all Veterans do the same. Why? The VA should ask for your permission first, before they collect data on you, or store any DNA or subsets of DNA that were collected from your body’s organic sample.

    Plus, due to what Ben has exposed, is that the VA can’t be trusted with such whole DNA specimens that were collected, or any DNA subsets that were extracted from your original whole DNA that was collected, or the written information about your DNA or subset DNA that was previously collected.

    Plus, it is advisable that you inform the VA [contents in my first paragraph] because your collected tissue sample to detect unusual DNA sequences that may be worth a lot of money to the health care industry, or medial research industry, or could be sold to the Russians or other identities that are enemies of the US.

    Don’t forget, the VA has a history of doing research, and I wouldn’t put it past them that they would use your DNA sample to detect a DNA sequence(s) for profitable means. And, to do this without your permission, and to not give you one red cent from any sales of your specific genetic codes or subsets. Just fucking sayin.

    • @ANutterVet, you are exactly right. It is a scary issue. They should not be able to disclose our information without consent.

  19. Way off topic. I think I just found a white Obama, no kidding I mean it. go to 10:55 in this video and look at the guitar player dressed all in black, with the black guitar. “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9cffwu-Pc0” Tell me it isn’t so.

  20. @Ex va,@ANutterVet: I don’t know what is going on with the blog tonight, but it is like I am the only one posting, and I am getting tired of seeing my own name. Have a good night and hope you all sleep well.

  21. @Ex va , @cj Be right back, feeding Kuni Boy a BK Burger. Spoiled brat. He cries and whines when we mention BK. Knows the sign too.

    I mean, get your the VA to disclose any DNA info they have on you, and get it into your hands. Inform that they aren’t to extract any DNA or subsets from your samples. And, when they need to take a sample from you, inform them again.

    Plus, pass the word onto other Vets. Now, back to feeding my K9, be right back in a few.

  22. @Ex va – I’m back on, I had a nose bleed right after feeding my K9. I’ve been having them on and of for a while.

    Ex, you said you had some questions for me? Sure Brother, whats up?

  23. ANutterVet, With human genome do you think they can make weapons to target the population with bioweapons? I have been reading and i know you have some expertise in biology. Some experts say they can.

    • @Ex va They sure can. They can cut then splice genetic code that can be introduced into man kind by many different methods of introduction [water, food, air], by reengineering viruses, bacteria, mold, or even food. As a matter of fact we’ve been eating Genetically Modified Food for quite a while now.

      Ex, let me tell you, I was mentored by a Professor who use to work at Stanford. His wife and him use to come over our house for barbq when we lived in Hawaii. Very smart dude. I jumped when he asked me to do research in his lab.

      I meant to tell you, that I don’t trust anyone that collects my blood or tissue samples, even though it hard to control what happens to your samples when collected by private sector or VA labs. Does this help in answering you question. I know that I may have missed something, trying to control this nose bleed.

      • @ANutterVet, yes i knew this was some scary stuff. This article kinda freaked me out the first time and times after it was published. Yes, you answered my question. With DNA sounds like they can do anything they want to with it. Sorry about the nose bleed. I don’t trust anyone with my blood samples or anyone with my genetic material.

  24. @Ex va I hate that when my finger slips when typing. @cj are you reading our posts? I hope your doing ok. Talk with you later. Check primary email.

  25. @Ex va – Are you posting at the end of the blog? Or are you off line? I’m getting off if I don’t hear anything by 1:25am. ANutterVet

  26. @Ex va – No high blood pressure. Just a fucked up head. My left ear is located higher then my right ear. Its freaking looking. I even point to myself too when I look into the mirror and see my face.

      • @ANutterVet, i hadn’t seen you in awhile did you need a break or was it health issues? I took a little break. It was hard catching up with the reading i like to read everything if i can.

  27. @Ex va – I know, he gets into the ascii art. That’s good because his input adds flavor to Ben’s blog. Many others like it as well, and no one else is doing it. And, it helps him to show his legitimate discuss due to what is going on with the VA’s behavior. And, once he gets on a roll, it gets even funnier.

  28. @ANutterVet, i have both. One ear is bigger and higher than the other and my head is fucked up. ROFL!!!!! Maybe age does it i don’t know.

  29. @ANutterVet, you are right he does get on a roll and it is hilarious!!! He makes me laugh almost everytime he does it too!!!

  30. @Ex va – I’ve been treating my own health. Lately, I’ve been using the CBD crystals, and it has had a dramatic improvement on me, for the first time in months, being about to get up and actually walk by myself. Fuck the VA and their dam Evident Based Medication.

    I already called them on Wednesday, to inform them [1.] I’m managing my own health, along with what I approve from anything from them, [2.] and upon CJ’s recommendation, is to request that my PCP has a license in my State where I reside.

    And, yes, I’ve also been dealing with my PTSD symptoms going off the mark. Wife is really concerned, and extremely pissed off at the VA. She’ll stab those vampires in the heart with her wooden chopsticks. LOL

  31. @ANutterVet, trying to ignore pain tonight. I am trying to do more, i want to be able to do the march in may if i can. So i have been walking a little more. I may have to take my walker or a scooter. I want to go down to popular bluff if others are going.

  32. @Ex va – If you have to take some form of walking assistance, well so be it. I hope you can increase you walking distance. What does mamma say about this?

  33. @ANutterVet, your wife needs to keep those wooden chopsticks handy. Glad you are walking. I know not walking is awful. I hate it. I hate the weakness that goes with it. Sometimes can’t even hold myself up. Cj is right the va will credential doctors who should not be credentialed. They will give them priveledging they shouldn’t have either.

  34. @ANutterVet, mama says walk more. LOL!!! Take the pain. I get sick of talking about the pain. Don’t really talk about it that much anymore. The dog even knows when i am bad pain. She try’s to comfort me and calm me down. When my pain goes up so goes my anxiety. I hate that shit.

  35. @Ex va- I’m going to watch these dangerous jerks more closely. And, when they mess up, I’m going to get so pissed off, that’ll tick them off and= they will call the VA Federal Police. Don’t care if they add me to the Disruptive or EPER list. I just don’t care anymore. When I get totally frustrated with people, they can kiss my ass. I’ve already been escorted out of the VA three times already.

    Wife is working 12-8am this morning. And she is one the phone right now. Ex I gotta close for now. I’ll talk with you later. Good night and God bless you and your family. I’ll answer you last post if you post one. Goodnight.

  36. @ANutterVet, i think cj and some others were talking about going after Memorial Day holiday. There is another march on May 20th every capitol in every city i think the link is on the other article page. I would like to go to both, i dunno. The may 20th they want you in old uniform.

  37. I’m not sure it really matters, if the purpose of this data was to learn how to treat medical issues…. then why not let the world benefit from the data…. its not like the va had any real rights to information that veterans let them have…. Its kinda like the research the government does, then we all end up with microwave ovens, or the internet… if all can benefit why not? I guess I just don’t see the point of the article….. Come On Ben…. how about some articles about something that can really change our life for the better…not that I am defending the VA , but its depressing reading day after day how the VA if screwing up our lives.

    • Would you like a complete run down of what microwave ovens did for cullinary excellence or should I launch into the virtues that the internet has gifted our children?

      The list is pretty long so make sure you are prepared for the answer my friend.

      • Let me toss you a hint – what one thing does the internet, microwave ovens, and morphine have in common? Hint: They share this thing with a babies pacifier.

      • Dennis,

        I made a good living as a Lan specialist so I don’t see what your point is…if your trying to say that microwaves or the internet are not good, factually, too much of anything is not good…. so where does that leave us…

      • Rick by God there is still hope! Now, can you conclude also that too much “information” (especially in the hands of those with power) might ALSO not be a good thing?

        The answer to my riddle however is not “too much of a good thing”. The answer is that each of those items listed speak directly to that part of our brains that is geared only to seek instant gratification. Addiction is literally the learning by the brain how to achieve instant gratification and then practicing it.

        Take two humans, one an infant and one an adult. Give the adult morphine for a few years and let yhe infant have their pacifier for a few years. Then one day go take each away from them. What you will witness is almost precisely the same behavior and this behavior comes from a very old part of our evolutionary brain and is hard wired into us.

        Now, do the same thing with the internet. Give somebody a cell phone for a few years, then one day take it away and keep them from the internet. Guess what? Exactly the same behavior.

        Now let’s go further with the idea, let’s talk about power. Give somebody power over you life for a few years and then one day take it away. Again, a temper tantrum, and if the tantrum thrower has lethal capability then the tangrum thrower will toss it around haphazardly until they get it back.

        Rick, your notion that such detailled and personal information about my genetic structure as being a path towards greater human enlightment is noteworthy and IS a logical argument, however doesn’t this idea beg one thing?

        1) It relies on the idea that those in power will use the information for what they say they will, and
        2) What they say it is useful for actually is.

        I am absolutely certain of a central universal truth – that manking is capable of great compassion and devotions, and also capable of unbridled devastation and cruelty. Mankind has used medical information to prolong lives a bit, and also to develop weapons that shortens life on a massive scale. The only real difference between the two ideals is that one is cherished by those in power and one is not.

        Is it prudent Rick to give foreign men in power the means to stay there, when those men have absolutely no vested interest in prolonging your life?

    • @cj, i am really pushing myself, the pain isn’t better i wish i was physically stronger working on it. I am hurting tonight. Probably need meds.

      • @Ex va: Sorry to hear that, pain here also, will take another dose in a bit, it will knock me out if I do. ZZzzzz

  38. @Ex va: You know, I just saw a utoob video on how to make an indoor salad garden all year round. I didn’t watch the entire video, but I will look later cause it looked good to do.

    • @cj, that is how the old timers did it. They had to have something to eat in winter months. They say you can grow kale and other cold weather crops all year long. I dunno.

      • @cj, the strawberry plants have leaves and saw one bloom today on a plant. I have June bearer and everbearers.

  39. @Ex va: I have an old gardening book a neighbor gave to me. In it, it shows a frame made of 2×12’s with only 3 sides, and attached to the house outside of a basement window, then an old window was used as a top on hinges. The top was at an angle, and the basment window was taken off. That way the heat from the house and the sunlight, they were able to grow all year long.

    • @cj, they knew how to do things and i wish i had their knowledge and ability it is very interesting. They had hot beds and cold frames i don’t know what the difference is. Lol.

      • @Ex va: Cold bed would just be a raised bed with a top on it, like an old window. A hot bed, they dig down about 18 inches and fil it to 6 inches from the top in layers of horse manure, then water, then wait then manure, then water, then the rest. After it reaches the proper them they fill the rest with good dirt, and plant away. The manure keeps everyting hot.

  40. @Ex va: AnutterVet and Disgruntled Veteran, alway talking about Hawaii. We need to keep playing the big lotteries, so we can all move to Hawaii. Beat the hell out of Illinois. LOL so does a cow pasture LMAOOO.

      • @Ex va: OH it sure is, I need one of those Ruske gas masks Nutter was talking about. But then id get attacked. Can’t win, either being gassed or attacked, these dogs are ruff customers lol.

      • @cj, i am ready to move from illinois this cold weather and unstable weather patterns i am so tired of it. I need to go to somewhere warm. Not so populated and a little distance from neighbors and traffic noise.

      • @Ex va: Deal then, we just need to win the lottery now, and pack up all the vets, and off to Hawaii we go. I think they will quarntine us to our own island lol. We a rowdy bunch….

    • They do that from an excess of protein. One way to get around it a bit is to supplement with oatmeal. I have two Italian Grayhounds. Extremely sensitive tummies, and ultimately I went to a reduced ingredient diet offered by “Simple” brand that is only Duck and Oatmeal.

      I checked to see what kind of dog food the VA provides and they claim it is a completely balanced diet, but I will be godamn if it didn’t make the other patients on the mental ward pass gas like that too.

      • @Dennis: Haahaha @ Mental ward. Dennis they had gas, was my own fault. They are on diet, of course we redieved 2 cans of dog food, for free from the shelter, or the pet store? I can’t remember. But yesterday I gave them each a half can on top of their reguar food. That is what gave them gas. When my rotty was still alive, we had no manners at all, we would have guests over, and he would walk right up and let it go, you could hear him let it rip from the other room. Excellent dogs you have there Dennis, Italian Greyhounds. Really like those.

  41. @Ex va: This guy looks just like mine. “https://www.vetarena.org/encyclopedia-dog-breeds/478/dogo-argentino-argentino-mastiff.html”

    • @cj, that is one big dog. LOL! Can get up to 100 pounds!!! Very nice looking dog. Good watch dog and guard dog. How much do you have to feed it?

      • He gets 2cups twice a day, pluss table scraps. He and my red nosed pit, go through a 40lbs bag every two weeks.

      • @Ex va: yes sir, have always had big dogs. Little ones, I am afraid of hurting them lol, they feel like they would break too easy. It’s like always having a horse around and then someone brings a tiny terrier or a cat. You go to pet the thing and you have to be careful cause you might snap a bone or something. Just not use to them at all.

  42. @Ex va: I found out what was causing my browser to lock up. It was f…..ing google. An agreement keeps popping up wanting me to agree to it, and I won’t. It say they are collecting info on me, and then it sends it back to them. My security setting won’t allow it to go outbound, so it freezes up. F…..ing bastards. I have a way to fix it using a program called dnsmasq, but I am not motivated enough to set it up yet lol.

    • @cj, i am glad you found it. I believe google is the problem. They are always wanting information they say for who knows what i don’t like them either.

      • I only saw 3 comment made today lol. I bet if you threw a rock in the corner of the room we would hear an echo.

  43. @cj, seems like a pattern from last weekend too. The weather is getting nicer, people are busy doing things on the weekend. That is what i am thinking no one is on the blogs.

    • @Ex va: Yes, been a long winter, people are stir crazy, they need to get out. And it is a good time to start on cleaning up the yard etc. Or dig out the motorcycles for those that have them. Or just enjoy the day.

  44. @Ex va: I got a farmers cutting disk, from a friend. Have your ever heard of Rogue Hoes? I have already drawn the ones I want out on the disk. I just have to cut them out, and weld them to a pipe and mound them onto handles. Should last the rest of my life. A good two weeks at least lol,,,,,,,just kidding relaxe.

    • @cj, ROFL!!! You need to buy an used disk a pull behind. Do you have a tractor? You can make a disk out of salvaged discs. Go to auctions too. Do you have a rototiller? I don’t have either. Need to get a rototiller.

      • @Ex va: Yes have a tiller. Need good hand tools for the garden though, I have everything to make them myself. Of course once I finish cutting the steel disk, I won’t be able to walk for a few days. Same after welding them all up and mounting them. Weeds are a pain in the ass, so these will make fast work of it.

      • @cj, don’t kill yourself making these tools. Sounds like you know what you are doing. Better than most. I know a little about farming from my grandmother and dad. I hope you have a great harvest. Maybe this year will not be so wet as the years we have been having.

  45. howl yu do, tis is detrimov, yu wan sel yur dna too me. me in da Russia contry. nead merica dna fore make monee. wat kine da colur shin yu hav. merica is trumph place too liv. heer now can be dedd if fine out tawk too yu. tanc yu

    • @detrimov, why do you want American DNA? Are races are so mixed up we are the what is called the dog mutts of the world. Your translator doesn’t translate well you are making me laugh. LOL! I was in the Cold War era didn’t like the Russians too well then or now. Are you a troll???

      • @Ex va: demitrimov is a good friend of mine from the former whatever the hell they were before whatever the hell they are now. He is an excellent fisherman, uses dynoooomiteeeeeee. to catch all da lil fishies.

    • @detrimov: detrimov, my Russian little fagot, you like a dee fish? Or are you one of those silly Spatznnov retarded shit for brains kerplunknovitz’z I take my rooooooooooskie friend for a fishing trip, very easy lil fagenov I make special seat just for you. Best way to seat a roooooooskipiskibitchenov:
      …………………./´¯/)
      ………………..,/¯../
      ………………./…./
      …………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
      ………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
      ……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
      ………\……………..’…../
      ……….”…\………. _.·´
      …………\…………..(
      …………..\………….\…

  46. @Ex va: I know detrimov wil grow on you too, he a good lil rooskie and sells the best recomunized gas masks. He prolly send us one free, gas included.

    • @cj, you are too funny. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This world is ? nuts!!!!!! Who would have thought anyone would want our DNA and an agency that is suppose to take care of us the va keeps wanting to sell it. What a national security issue. Wars they target former military and military age men and women. What the hell……….. If Ben didn’t bring the attention to this who knows what the hell could have happen and now they are trying to start this shit up again. GHEESH!!!!!!!! Ben is probably stopping this again from happening with this article. I can hardly believe this shit!!

    • @ditrimov: come ere my lil rooskie friend I got your lil bitches right here.
      ………………………………………._¸„„„„_
      …………………….……………„–~*’¯…….’\
      ………….…………………… („-~~–„¸_….,/ì’Ì
      …….…………………….¸„-^”¯ : : : : :¸-¯”¯/’
      ……………………¸„„-^”¯ : : : : : : : ‘\¸„„,-”
      **¯¯¯’^^~-„„„—-~^*'”¯ : : : : : : : : : :¸-”
      .:.:.:.:.„-^” : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : : :„-”
      :.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.: : : : : : : : : : ¸„-^¯
      .::.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. : : : : : : : ¸„„-^¯
      :.’ : : ‘\ : : : : : : : ;¸„„-~”
      :.:.:: :”-„””***/*’츒¯
      :.’: : : : :”-„ : : :”\
      .:.:.: : : : :” : : : : \,
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      “-„_::::_„-*__„„~”

    • @detrimov, if you are going to insult someone using the English language you need a better translator software. Or maybe this is how stupid you really are. Kiss my American ass!

  47. Hey, I’m up for a bit. Sounds like you two cranksters are doing good tonight. I’ve been having a lot of pain, major digestive issues, been very sluggish, tired, and crashing in and out all day.

    Plus, my K9 was a nasty fucker, he blew wind in my face while laying ON MY PILLOW.

    • @cj, I hear you, will do if my cleanse doesn’t help. Not from the VA, will go to ER and bite the $$$ bullet if they haven’t accepted my Compassion Care Application. That was just sent in.

  48. Drop that dude quicker than a hear beat. He stole my password to Ben’s blog. Family disowned him, he got loose in the barn and fooled around with the sheep.

    Ex, sorry I had to cut you short last night, family issues, including the VA. Making a stance against their treatment policy.

    How is your Korean friend doing?

  49. @Ex va, Thanks Ex. This has been going on strongly for about a week. I’ve noticed a difference when a take my pain meds too. They seem to act up my bowels. Not a good sign because Oxy’s can do this with long term use, and I fit the bill.

    This is why I’m trying to increase the amount of CBD from what I’m currently doing.

    • @ANutterVet: Yes an unfortunate side effect of opiods. Glycol works but you can’t leave the house after you take it. Worse than an inuendo. (Italian supository).

  50. @ANutterVet, LMAO!!! Fooled around with the sheep??? Hahahahahaha!! My North Korean friend Kim Jon dong??? Yeah, he thought he was being a big shot shooting off his nukes on an deserted island. He didn’t give a damn about any of the life on the island he had to shoot off his nukes to get his rocks off.

    @ANutterVet, i knew you were busy with family business that’s the best business to be busy with.

  51. @cj @Ex va – My wife and I finally agreed to move back to Hawaii. This of course, will take some extreme planning, a long term plan. A lot of things will be changing coming up in May. And, this may effect my online time in the evening. I know that I mentioned it before, but we agreed that due to my health, for all around reasons, we need to move back to be with our ohana [adopted family and friends].

    You two will always be welcomed to stay with us, will make sure we move the big lava rocks over to one side, in order to keep the ground level and smooth. LOL Not, anytime, were planning on making the dog house larger. Not. But don’t worry, we know great peeps that love the same gender. Woooo Whoooo the backend of the human train will be put to use.

    • @ANutterVet, that sounds great. Cj says we need to win the lottery and all move to Hawaii. They would probably give all us vets our own island. LOL!!!

      AnutterVet, i think you would do better mentally and physically there. I would love to go out there. The weather would be stable and temps would be excellent.

      • Ex, you’d say to your wife, “what miss the family? I haven’t thought of them since I’ve been here? Wanna go home, then go. We’ll meet again”

  52. Trumpy hit Syria again huh. May be too much over play. But, could this be a message to the Korean asshole that if he keeps it up, that he may be next. Don’t know, but hopefully, Trump will get his Cabinet Advisory together for input, too much emotions run in his camp, especially his, even though that I want him to succeed in governing and protecting our corrupt politically system [Make Medical Marijuana Legal In All 51 or 2 Places]. Stop the stupidity, big Pharma has made her share of the monies.

  53. And, if they make MMJ legal, the prices will come crashing down, and I won’t see prices for a half way decent glass flask perculating pipe sell for $200 quid. Glass pipes are expensive, seen one for $3500.

  54. Ex va, what you say, you’ve been on this planet longer than us? What do you think Russia will respond with besides moving a ship, after all they’re really no competition, although could be deadly for some if the hit the East Coast. Hey, shit, that’s me!

    • @ANutterVet: I have a spare room here for you. Stay here while the Rooskies hit DC. We will allow that strike, but only that strike.

    • I do not know what the plans for North Korea or Russia either. We have satellites and we can see any troop movement for an invasion or missiles, ships, tanks, etc. this Syria business should be discussed and planned. Why doesn’t NATO step in on this stuff when civilians are targeted?

  55. The major thing that concerns me, is that POTUS didn’t discuss with the Congress for input or anything. Then after POTUS approved the first round, many Congressmen were interviewed, didn’t really complain about not getting approval from them, but wanted to know if we got in any deeper what we be the overall plan. Of course, with no Military Advisors, that’s dangerous.

  56. @Ex va,@ANutterVet: Can you believe these fucking Obama fucks? After all the unauthorized bombing he has done, including a hospital were doctors without borders worked in violation of world law, they have the audacity to cry about this shit “Obama aides say the same Republicans who are praising Trump for bombing Syria BLOCKED their boss from doing the same” Go the fuck away Obama loser fucks, we don’t wanna hear that name ever again……….EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR “http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4393414/Obama-aides-push-against-criticism-inaction-Syria.html”

    • @cj – As long as they hold any office, watch how they are the ones who are always crying, “Why, why, you didn’t tell me, we had to do what ex-POTUS did, he didn’t want to do it, he had no choice, those unwarned medical staff were going to come back to the States, with concealed syringes of biological loads of mutated organisms.

    • @cj, the Obama talk will disappear soon. His administration is gone and so will the talk about him will be too. He messed up a lot of people requiring health insurance and people will not forget that failure. He required people to use it and made a huge mess of the whole thing. I have family that paid thousands for that stupid care. What a rip off!!!!

      • @Ex va – We were fined by that bullshit. The cost per month, $850. I sent him an email and asked him to pay the monthly fee for me. I’ve could of been out of the VA a long time ago. Nicely saying, exPOTUS fuck off, where’s your legal papers for citizenship? Na, only joking, don’t want to cause a stir with those living in the sticks.

      • @ANutterVet, i knew of some people paying like 2 grand a month for two people???? What the hell kinda affordable health care is that? He had his own business and in upper tax bracket. They didn’t care what it did to people just made it an requirement.

      • @Ex va – Dam, how do they eat, pay bills, go out for a fast food burger? That’s a lot of money per month. These Politicians have had enough time to put a realistic healthcare plan together. If it was for their families, it would’ve been done right. But no, screw us over, again, and again, and again.

      • @ANutterVet,@Ex va: It was allowed by the supreme court because they ruled it was a “Tax” and therefore okay. I agree, a total screwing over of everyone. Even the poor.

  57. @ANutterVet,@Ex va: Ever notice when conservatives leave office they stay out of the next potus business and you almost never hear from them again? Exact opposite from Libtards, they can’t shut the fuck up ever, not ever. They need to learn how disapear off the fucking radar. This shit started with the loser Jimmy Carter, and continues with every Libtarded potus ever since. Un-fucking-believable. How………unpresidential.

      • You guys do good for what hell you both have been thru. We are survivors. God has carried me thru some bad stuff. I am thankful to be alive.

      • @ANutterVet: No, I am very strick at how I use Morphine. I can stop taking it tomorrow and never have withdrawals.

      • @Ex va: You have to be. For me, the VA can stop it anytime without warning, and I have a feeling that is what they will do one day. What really sux is there is no way for me to have any fun, like smoking dope, or drinking. It can kill me if I drank, and pot negates my heart meds. Can”t win for losing.<———-I never understood what that mind fuckery meant.

      • @cj, I use to drink occasionally and it was ok. Never really addicted to anything. With all my medications i am in the same boat as you are and i can’t do anything because it could kill me. I had some high school friends that are really messed up because of drug use and died. They did that to themselves. I dunno, some of them barely function and i couldn’t handle that.

      • @Ex va: I hear you, I think everyone has people they knew growing up, that unfortunately really screwed themselves over for the rest of their lives. I even had a friend that was climbing a damn tree and grabbed a power line by accident and blew his arm off. Crazy shit happens to people all the time. Even in our condition, we are pretty blessed, compare to so many.

  58. @cj, your pain meds work ok for you? Mine do sometimes. I wish it would take all the pain away but it does take the sharpness down. Sometimes nothing works.

    • @Ex va: No they do not work for the pain I have. It is a very strange med. I have watched a hornet land on my hand and sting me and fly off and never felt a damn thing. For all the spinal damage, it doesn’t do shit at all.
      Icecream headaches are ferocious, because you don’t feel how bad they are untill it’s to late, have to down some hot coffee quick to stop it. I take Morphine for nueropothy, not pain. Nothing helps the pain ever.

      • @cj, damn that really sucks. I figured it didn’t stop all the pain. The back pain is the worse for me it stops me from moving. I don’t think they know what to do for that type of pain.

      • @Ex va: They have tried everything under the sun, nothing works. This new VA quack is sending my to see a fucking surgeon, like I would let the damn VA, or anyone for that matter cut into my back……….not gonna happen. I have seen way too many back surgery failures …………on my street alone there are 6 people!!!! and my street only has 12 houses on it.

      • @cj, those back surgeries they inject steroids into the back and after a few weeks the back pain comes back because the steroids wear off. Usually pain worse than before. Then they can cause worse damage with new injury they caused. Back surgeries are not successful majority of time.

      • @Ex va: yep, all true, I will never allow anyone to do anything to my back. The best thing ever done was I had physical therapy, private doctors. They use a deep penetrating ultrasound therapy. Only thing I didn’t like was just as it started to feel good my time was up. I wish they could have done it for a damn hour lol.

  59. @cj @Ex va – That’s good, glad to hear it. I got to watch my dose, this generic brand doesn’t work as well as the previous. VA just ignored my comment. Go figure. Watched a program today of people kicking Percocet and Heroine, not too nice, looked extremely painful.

    Hey, its 3am on my end, I’d sing but you can’t hear me. Gotta hit the sack. Mamma working again from 12-8am. Wants to have a coffee chat plus in the morning. God bless the both of you, your families, and the pooches. Good night.

  60. @Ex va: The only way to deal with back pain is to not pay attention to it. It is going to hurt no matter what, so I just do as much as I can, and suffer through the rest of the day. Sometimes I can’t move for weeks. Still I don’t think it is worse than what you guys are going through. I am sure of that much.

    • I don’t even like talking about the shit going on with me. I can deal with it most days, and there are so many veterans that are much worse off that it is nothing compared to what they are going through.

      • @cj, there is always someone who has it worse that is true. Go to the va medical center and you will know that things could be worse for you. I hate anyone suffering and that is why i get mad at the va because they cause unnecessary suffering for Veterans. I guess i will never forget that. And they killed Veterans i knew.

    • @cj, it is bad when it limits your daily living activities and that just sucks bad. I have been trying to ignore the pain like you do but i fail most of the time. Not moving for weeks i have been thru that too and it makes you weak. It is awful. My family worries about me and they keep me going and the dog does too. Lol! I don’t give up because of them.

      • @Ex va: Yes to everything you said. It’s life though. It isn’t that you failed, Ex, it is you reached your limit, and can’t do any more. Same here, I never look at it as I failed to ignore the pain. We just do what we can do, and no more.

      • @cj, yeah, i need to look at it in different terms than failure. I just have had a lot of problems with adjusting to life after disease and illness. I will do the best i can, that is all i can do like you said.

      • @Ex va: For sure, we aren’t young any longer, and we sure ain’t superman. We just regular people like everyone else. Remember the stooges, when one would say his arm hurts, and Moe would stomp on his foot, and they say “what did you do that for, it hurts” and Mow would say “yeah but your arm doesn’t hurt anymore” Maybe we need to hire the 3 stooges? They sure couldn’t do any worse than a VA doc.

      • @cj, need something to block the pain. Don’t know if they have the science but they are working on it.

      • @Ex va: You don’t want to block all the pain, just enough to where it is manageable. Pain let’s us know when we are doing damage. If you completely blocked the pain, you would never know when your doing more harm.

      • @cj, you are right about that. My joints are unstable so i have a lot of pain. The slide, stick and get locked up. If i didn’t feel the pain i could really tear up that joint.

  61. @cj, well it is getting late i need to try to get some sleep. I need to try to do some things tomorrow. I hope the day will be decent. God Bless you and yours, i hope you can get some sleep. I hope to get some sleep too. Take care goodnight.

    • @Ex va: God Bless you and yours too. Sleep well Ex, talk soon.

      ∩ │◥███◣ ╱◥███◣
      ╱◥◣ ◥████◣▓∩▓│∩ ║
      │╱◥█◣║∩∩∩ ║◥█▓ ▓█◣
      ││∩│ ▓ ║∩田│║▓ ▓ ▓∩ ║
      Goodnight Ben’s World

  62. this is why they want your DNA………………………………………………………………………………………. “http://educate-yourself.org/cn/Remote-Neural-Monitoring23sep16.shtml#top
    September 23, 2016″…………i’m no genius but I can read ………………………………………………………Remote Neural Monitoring~
    A Living Nightmare Imposed Upon Innocent People……or watch this….The Matrix of Mind Control → DARPA DNA Mapping .on u tube…………………….J Edgar Hoover:

    “The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists……yes i know next your going to say they debunked that quote …. and you might figure it out, all roads still lead to ROME . i am sure you have seen the video before the election where killary was one side of the cardinal and trump was on the other at some party they had well here it is folks wasn’t hard to find……..2016 Al Smith Dinner (Full) | The New York Times …..look at that one on u tube……………..Pope Francis Sends Obama Powerful Letter Via Attorney [on] July 4th 2014 (VI) (DM)
    August 20, 2015 by Danell Glade……and no i am not a certified nut from the VA or any other place. and i don’t even have a degree to say I am certified to be brain washable

  63. And You Thought, I was Crazy.

    The Body Electric, Electromagnetism and the Foundation of Life, by Robert Becker, M.D. Monitoring neuroelectric information in the brain ESB. (p. 265,313,318)

    Cross currents, by Robert Becker. Simulating auditory hallucinations. Remote computer tampering using RF emissions from the logic board. (p. 70,78,105,174,210,216,220,242,299,303)

    Currents of Death, by Paul Brodeur. Driving brain electrical activity with external EM; magnetophosphenes; Delgado. (p. 27,93)

    The Zapping of America, by Paul Brodeur. DoD EM ESB research; simulating auditory hallucinations
    .
    Of Mice, Men and Molecules, by John H. Heller 1963 Bioelectricity; probing the brain with EM waves. (p, 110)

    The Three-Pound Universe, by Judith Hooper. CIA EEG research; EEGs for surveillance. (p.29,132,137)
    In the Palaces of Memory, by George Johnson. EM emissions from the brain; the brain as an open electromagnetic circuit.
    The Puzzle Palace, by James Bamford. Signals Intelligence; most advanced computers in the early ‘sixties.
    The US Intelligence Community. Glossary terms at National Security Archives; Radiation Intelligence (information from unintentionally emanated electromagnetic energy, excluding radioactive sources).

    The Search for the “Manchurian Candidate”, by John Marks. Electrical or radio stimulation to the brain; CIA R&D in bioelectrics. (p.227)

    Secret Agenda, by Jim Hougan. National security cult groups.
    Crimes of the Intelligence Community, by Morton Halperin. Surreptitious entries; intelligence agents running operations against government workers.
    War in the Age of Intelligent Machines, NSA computer supremacy, complete control of information.

    Alternate Computers, by Time-Life Books. Molecule computers.
    The Mind, by Richard Restak, M.D. EEG Systems inc.; decoding brain EM emanations, tracking thoughts on a computer. (p. 258)

    MedTech, by Lawrence Galton. Triggering events in the brain, direct to auditory cortex signals.

    Cyborg, by D.S. Halacy, Jr, 1965. Brain-to-computer link research contracts given out by the US government.
    Psychiatry and the CIA: Victims of Mind Control, by Harvey M. Weinstein M.D. Dr. Cameron; psychic driving; ultraconceptual communications.

    Journey Into Madness: The True Story of Secret CIA Mind Control and Medical Abuse, by Gordon Thomas, Intelligence R&D; Delgado; psychic driving with radio telemetry. (p. 127,276,116,168,169)
    Mind Manipulators, by Alan Scheflin and Edward M. Opton. MKULTRA brain research for information-gathering.

    The Brain Changers, by Maya Pines. Listening to brain EM emissions. (p.19)
    Modern Bioelectricity. Inducing audio in the brain with EM waves; DoD cover-up; EM wave ESB; remote EEGs

    Magnetic Stimulation in Clinical Neurophysiology, by Sudhansu Chokroverty. Magnetophosphenes; images direct to the visual cortex.
    The Mind of Man, by Nigel Calder. US intelligence brain research.
    Neuroelectric Society Conference, 1971. Audio direct to the brain with EM waves; 2-way remote EEGs.
    Brain Control, by Elliot S. Valenstein. ESB., control of individuals.
    Towards Century 21, by C.S. Wallia. Brain Stimulation for direct-to-brain communications (p21)
    Mind Wars, by Ron McRae (associate of Jack Anderson). Research into brain-to-brain electronic communications., remote neural EM detection (PP. 62 106, 136).

    Mind Tools, by Rudy Rucker. Brain tapping; communications with varying biomagnetic fields (p82).
    US News and World report, January 2nd 1984. EM wave brain stimulation; intelligence community hi-tech (p38).
    Ear Magazine. Article on extremely low frequencies radio emissions in the natural environment; radio emissions from the human body.
    City Paper, Washington DC January 17, 1992. Article FCC and NSA “complete radio spectrum” listening posts.

    Frontiers in Science, by Edward Hutchings Jr 1958 (p48).

    Beyond Bio Feedback, by Elmer and Alyce Green, 1977 (p118)
    The Body Quantum, by Fred Alan Wolf

    Cloning, A Biologist Reports, by Robert Gillmore McKinnell. Ethical review of cloning humans.
    Hoovers’ FBI, by Former agent William Turner. Routines of electronic surveillance work. (p280).

    July 20th 2019, by Arthur C. Clarke LIDA; Neurophonics; Brain-computer link.
    MegaBrain, by Michael Hutchison. Brain stimulation with EM waves; CIA research and information control. (pp.107,108,117,120,123).

    The Cult of Information, by Theodore Rosnak, 1986. NSA Directive #145; personal files in ………and now can you figure out why they want your DNA . and you wont have worry about pain when they get with you

    • A couple of Vids I am sure you will be interested in.

      “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICA19oKPi5I”

      “”The truth about mobile phone and wireless radiation” — Dr Devra Davis, University of Melbourne
      “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwyDCHf5iCY”

      • Also

        “Dr. Magda Havas: The Truth About Wired and Wireless Technologies”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYjAAqUfHtE”

        “EMF Radiation, The Silent Killer In Your Home, Paul Waddell NZ”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd1mi8gwU0w”

      • Veterans are currently being used in research in the new field of Transcranial magnetic stimulation. The first Vid in this list shows that without a doubt the use of TMS definitely causes serious damage to rats used in research exposed to TMS.

        “Electromagnetic Fields and Leakage of the Blood Brain Barrier: Dr. Leif Salford”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_WJ_aJPWIA”

        Currently Clinical Trials Dot Gov list 946 research studies using primary Veterans as Lab Rats in studies using Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation and 79 of the research projects using Deep Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.

        The VA is also researching the use of Deep Transcranial Magnetic stimulation to push drugs through the blood brain barrier. Recently they were forced to stop research with one drug they were doing it with because 6 out of the 7 veterans died early in the research, I believe it was within days of their first exposure. The drug being used was from Bristol Myers Squibb. The research was restarted using veterans after they reduced dosages of the drug and they then restarted their research.

        Links to Clinical Trials Dot Gov listings for the research:

        Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation link
        “https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Transcranial+Magnetic+stimulation&Search=Search”

        Deep Transcranial Magnetic stimulation link
        “https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?term=Deep+Transcranial+Magnetic+stimulation&Search=Search”

        Additional links to You Tube Vid demonstrating the immediate affects of Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation has on anyone’s brain.

        “Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Demonstration”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkNbYHu_STU”

        “Transcranial magnetic stimulation”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSOfP5w_AHY”

        “Magnetic Mind Control”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7vOgHqE_P4”

        Additional important links

        “WiFi Radiation: Is your network killing you?”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGBbstmUbxY”

        “Germany Warns Citizens To Avoid Using Wi-Fi Wireless Radiation”
        “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_B9se5I59c”

      • I’LL check them out Seymore …….WiFi Radiation: Is your network killing you-YES and so is your electric meter

  64. Let’s talk about insanity;

    The VA predicts that if we spend ENORMOUS amounts on research, and involve human and animal teat subjects to invasive and deadly experiements that mynlife as a vet will be better. They predict that garhering untold volumes of data on me and my brothers and sisters that some how and some way that life can once again return to more than just a marathon-like struggle in which each day seems like one step further in the Marathon of life and feels just like I felt at mile 18 when I attempted Marathon years ago. The pavement started to feel REALLY hard against the bottom of my feet as I struggled with pain and exhaustion and discovered again the only true test of spirit is the test that only requires one foot be placed in front of the other. This is the test many vets face, and the VA comes up wih this BULLSHIT about my genetics?

    Let me toss this one out – I can personally attest as can hundreds of thousands of folks that use the extractions done from marijuanna. I realized a few years back that since ZERO government funding was being used to help learn again how to refine the medicine, I did it on my own.

    I further refine marijuanna extracts which trat nominally at 60-70% TCH and the other two big cannibinoids (CBN and CBD) at home over a column of packed with aluminum oxide using a mobile phase comprising ethyl acetate and methanol, or isopropyl alcohol and hexane via a process generally known as Dry Column Vacuum Chromatography (I have a significant following on my marijuanna refining technique videos). I produce pharmecutical grade and nearly pure thc oil with my process and also employ a LITANY other processes more involved (like using a cryogenic sublimator and employing stram co-distillation) to produce medicine that has now replaced 100% of the vile shit the VA had provided me, including at least four psychiatric meds and life shortening doses of morphine an other opiods. I have extensive videos on steam stram codistillation of marijuann extracts nto purified oill as well which is extremely well received in the industry struggling to purify the medicine.

    Does sit seem AT ALL logical to anyone else here, that the VA is researching at ENORMOUS expense the methods and techniques to alleviate commonly experienced symptoms among my veteran brothers and sisters on BULLSHIT that tracks little colored dots in a DNA machine when just a two year effort by a single veteran can produce medicine from a weed that grows pretty godamn well in just about any pot filled wih American dirt?

    The VA is quick pount out that studies show marijuanna causes SEVERE anxiety and bouts of paranoia that often comoletely short ciruit rational thoughts, however those sysmptoms have only been confirmed in the politicians with are tasked with legislatuon around the issue. Why does Oregon, and the millions of folks who live here believe that the products from marijuanna thusly refined can directly alleviate the symptoms of PTSD and beilieves it so whole heartedly that we even virtually dismissed the fee for vets with a PTSD diagnosis to obtain a marijuanna card? Because it works.

    The only downside to marijuanna use in Oregon is the reminder they send you when you get a medical marijuanna card. On this card they explicitely remind you that the card does not protect you from federal prosecution for using this medicine. Nice huh?

    Instead of relying on the grass roots effort (loving that term here) of folks like myself to once again discover for mankind how to refine this medicine into Holy Oil, we could with a FRACTION of the $$$ spent on genetic research (small dots of proteins moving through Jello when you zap it with electricity) very easily produce medicine that needs no further research to verify effectiveness. Furthermore, if the fucking Russians want me to show them how to roll a joint, or how to dab thc oil, or how to load a vaporizer, then I suppose nobody needs to get too twisted up over it because when they start bombing us with joints it aint gonna be all that bad, right?

    I tell you what. I have devoted thousands upon thousands of dollars figuring out what works and what does not work to refine this stuff. I have multiple videos in Vimeo and youtube outlining the techniques. If you want to know how to take dispensary grade extract and further refine it into pure THC oil in your kitchen, let me know. I will send a link.

    Just beware, because the VA is federal government. Our own state cannot protect vets from prosecution who legally do this inside of Oregons law, but whom cannot protect our veterans from federal goon squads. Instead the federal government zaps Jello with electricity after they put your blood in it, and they watch dots travel through Jello, and tell us emphatically that this research will not be weaponized, and will not fall into enemy hands.

    Does this makes sense to anyone that we ALREADY have a viable and inexpensive method to relieve pain and suffering place on Earth by God and instead fund our VA for BILLIONS to try to unravel God’s recipe for life? Come vape some pure THC oil with me and you will understand that nearly all if what we were taught about marijuanna is not correct, and if you have the kind of ongoing pain from extensive nerve damage like I do then for once in your life you can know what it is like for the electrified concrete boot feeling of severe neuropathy to fade away, and the anger and fight response of PTSD to ebb into memory.

    Go West young man! The Oregon Trail awaits…

    • @Dennis…great comment. After some family stuff this year and potentially within 2 years, am looking at Pacific Northwest. However, a lot will be pending on AG Sessions, whom just stated he wanted the “war on drugs” back in full-force and enforce laws…Sessions is a historic relic that loathes pot…which means he’s likely a closet stoner. 🙂 Wait and see on this..

      I agree with all your points. My State of Ohio will have medical cannabis available within a year and half but reason I will likely move is Ohio’s regulations are the most strict and the latest PDF of State medical Board meeting notes (I subscribe), they specifically limited *any single* Dr. to only -2- patients receiving cannabis on their license for a year.
      This of course will cause a “bidding war” of whomever pays the good Dr. for medical pot will be the two golden ticket winners but…only for a year.
      Oh, Ohio also will NOT protect any Dr. that prescribes MJ from loss of medical license from Federal Prosecution…yeah, THAT will even limit how many Dr.’s wish to risk their careers…

      Yeah, I am moving within 2 years for sure. I hate moving, but I live now just within 3 hours of my parents/now in home hospice father…so my lease is up here in July and with all going on am just staying here for another year once all the dust settles from family crap, and I will use that mental sediment that’s been stirred-up in my own bowl of jello to further prepare for a major move and hopefully last one in this lifetime.
      Cannabis is the cat’s meow to effectively curtailing severe anxiety and PTSD, severe nausea, neuropathic pain, pain, IBS, et al. The USA as a whole, if legalized across the States, would eliminate our huge national debt in no time. That seems like a good thing for America.

      • Also legalizing Marijuana would wipe out the Opioid crisis and seriously save some lives.

        ” Legalized Marijuana Could Help Curb the Opioid Epidemic, Study Finds”
        “http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/legalized-marijuana-could-help-curb-opioid-epidemic-study-finds-n739301”

        “In states that legalized medical marijuana, U.S. hospitals failed to see a predicted influx of pot smokers, but in an unexpected twist, they treated far fewer opioid users, a new study shows.

        Hospitalization rates for opioid painkiller dependence and abuse dropped on average 23 percent in states after marijuana was permitted for medicinal purposes, the analysis found. Hospitalization rates for opioid overdoses dropped 13 percent on average.

        At the same time, fears that legalization of medical marijuana would lead to an uptick in cannabis-related hospitalizations proved unfounded, according to the report in Drug and Alcohol Dependence.”

        Of course we would be creating a serious problem with a large percentage of Doctors hitting the unemployment lines and revocation of their H-1b at VA Health Care.

      • @Seymore Klearly- I saw that article as well, and so did my Gov. of Ohio…he refuses to believe that and claims it’s a conspiracy to legalize recreational MJ.

        Not a fan of my mentally handicapped Gov. It’s pretty obvious the only reason they passed, and quickly before the election, medical cannabis is to prevent it from ever being on the ballot for recreational use.

        On one hand they say they want to help even Veterans with PTSD and many others, on other hand limiting any given Dr. two -2- patients a year is totalitarian insane…my Gov. is insane.
        Then you have people such as our VP Mike Pence, from Indiana, whose been quoted as not believing tobacco or cigs are bad for you. WTF?
        I’m more leery of our VP than Trump. Lots of insane people in the swamp these days.

      • Sessions needs to keep his butt out of what states do. Medical M.J. does help veterans with PTSD and TBI. To legally medicate yourself one has to use alcohol ! Alcohol is a very dangerous drug effects part of your body and mind. DUI, Domestic violence, liver disease Etc.

        Pain or other hard drugs do the same thing. Since I had finely been treated with the proper medication and medical M.J., I have not touched any alcohol or hard drugs given by the VA and then cutting you off. I am thriving.

        Don’t know about him being a closet M.J. user. But I think he in the closet for some reason.

    • I’LL take that link DENNIS. I am down to 1 item on the va poison list ….most people take a lot of vitamins but do no good because they are so toxic with va garbage

      • You got it OLDMARINE! I have posted, if our host approves it, one link to a video done showing an extremely simolified way to “purify” the medicine that we get in dispensaries. The medicine is extracted by producers using he same method that coffee growers use to decaffeinate coffee known as Supercritical Fluid Extraction. With marijuanna the side effect is also the extraction of the harsh components that normally limit the inhalation of he vaper.

        I show/talk about an extremely quick way to purify. There are MANY ways as I previously mentioned. ONE THING I GARAUNTEE is that in all the literature generated by our federal government in the last 50+ years, is that despite TRILLIONS of dollars of medical research funding YOU WILL NOT FIND EVEN HALF of the useful information presented on the topic as I present in this short video and I present damn little actual information.

        Why is this? How can we dump trillions into research yet sick and hurting folk need to dodge those who would imprison us for seeking the relief that God has gifted us? I understand that science is an art pursued in the betterment of mankind, but is it better? After all science invented liquor and God invented pot.

        Note that what I am demonstrating in the video is done on modified vaporizing gear, but produces a vapor and not smoke to inhale. The relief is remarkable. The main actor, me is less so remarkable. However if you wish to pursue the knowledge then you should be able to find the other few dozen videos posted on that site that I posted.

        Now Google for VA advice on using marijuanna. See for yourself the depth of their concern, and see for yourself what information trillions of dollars has gifted us for the relief of suffering of the sick and hurting vs. one lone veteran in Oregon. Score? Oregon: 1, Fed Gov: 0. Trillions apparently just don’t stretch like they used to.

        “https://vimeo.com/190451909”

      • HEY DENNIS I keep getting this……..,… Try searching again using broader keywords. You could also watch one of the videos below instead….. what category is it in may be i can find it that way i have never used VIMEO so not to familiar with it

      • “naturalnews.com/2017-04-07-100-shocking-studies-that-prove-cannabis-can-help-cure-cancer.html” this is about the best sight for health news you wont get anywhere else…. read his wikipedia page they knock him bad so he must be right on……”wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_News”

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