VA Pain Disability Fed Cir

Fed Cir: Veterans Can Now Get Disability From Pain Alone, VA Opposition ‘Illogical’

The Federal Circuit just reversed years of bad case law finding veterans can receive a service-connected disability for pain alone without a present diagnosis or pathology.

Basically, the Court concluded the Department of Veterans Affairs added additional criteria to what the term “disability” means as it related to disability compensation. The Court called VA’s argument as to the interpretation of what “disability” means “illogical in the broader context of the statute”.

The decision finds the Court of Appeals For Veterans Claims misinterpreted what a disability was when adjudicating the claim of Melba Saunders for her knee pain. The veteran lacked a current specific diagnosis or other identified disease or injury. Nonetheless, the three-judge panel concluded veterans include Melba may still be entitled to a disability rating for such pain.

RELATED: Screwed By VA? Top 5 Must Reads For Disabled Veterans

“We conclude that pain is an impairment because it diminishes the body’s ability to function, and that pain need not be diagnosed as connected to a current underlying condition to function as an impairment.”

The Secretary was unsuccessful in explaining why “pain alone is incapable of causing an impairment in earning capacity” despite trying hard to strain a gnat in his contrarian argument.

His representation did not go down without a fight. They even tried classic law school slippery-slope argument strategies claiming the Court’s holding would result in veterans getting disability ratings for pain when they do not deserve the ratings.

RELATED: California Veterans Wait Longer For Disability Ratings


In short, a veteran’s disability must be linked to an in-service incurrence or aggravation of a disease or personal injury.

Can you imagine how many veterans were screwed by the agency’s improper interpretation of 38 USC § 1110 and its interpretation of what a “disability” actually is?

VA probably knows the amount of money it was saving by screwing veterans with its illogical interpretation of the statute, right down to the penny.

Saunders v Acting VA Secretary Wilkie Quotes

Here were some of my favorite quotes in italics from the case, Saunders v Wilkie:

We next consider whether pain alone can serve as a functional impairment and therefore qualify as a disability, no matter the underlying cause. We conclude that pain is an impairment because it diminishes the body’s ability to function, and that pain need not be diagnosed as connected to a current underlying condition to function as an impairment. The Secretary fails to explain how pain alone is incapable of causing an impairment in earning capacity, and we see no reason to reach such a conclusion. In fact, the Secretary concedes that “pain can cause functional impairment in certain situations, that disability can exist in those cases, and that a formal diagnosis is not always required.” Appellee Br. 26 (emphasis in original).

The Veterans Court’s interpretation of “disability” is also illogical in the broader context of the statute, given that the third requirement for service connection is establishment of a nexus between the present disability and the disease or injury incurred during service. If the disability must be the underlying disease or injury, there is no reason for a nexus requirement—and therefore Sanchez–Benitez I eviscerates the nexus requirement.


This holding is also supported by common sense. As Saunders explains, a physician’s failure to provide a diagnosis for the immediate cause of a veteran’s pain does not indicate that the pain cannot be a functional impairment that affects a veteran’s earning capacity.


To establish the presence of a disability, a veteran will need to show that her pain reaches the level of a functional impairment of earning capacity. The policy underlying veterans compensation—to compensate veterans whose ability to earn a living is impaired as a result of their military service—supports the holding we reach today.

We hold that the Veterans Court erred as a matter of law in holding that pain alone, without an accompanying diagnosis or identifiable condition, cannot constitute a “disability” under § 1110, because pain in the absence of a presently-diagnosed condition can cause functional impairment.

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  1. Well this is all great and I see a line forming at the VA either to reopen, file a CUE based on this reading where it clearly states 1110 basic entitlement, 1110 being a period of war. 1131 (peace time) has the same wording in it but doesn’t say a period of war, it states “during other than a period of war”. So is someone going to have to challenge that all the way up to the federal circuit to get this decision or is it going to apply to the 1131 basic entitlement as well?

  2. what about the mental pain of just dealing with the VA…who don’t care if you’re hurting or not. I don’t use VAMC’s, nobody has asked my why, because they don’t care.

  3. I left the service with a severe head wound and they would only give me 325 mg tablets (dirt cheap) of tylenol. I asked why and they stated that they thought I might abuse anything stronger. “We are reluctant to prescribe something stronger because we think you will abuse them.” Key word is ‘will’ instead of ‘may’. Big difference.

    I told my psych doc that I believed strongly that I needed to hit the s.o.b. md up side the head on both sides with a baseball bat and punch him in the nose real hard to simulate the pain I was having. He said, “Please don’t do that because it will only get you into trouble with the law and you don’t need that on top of your current troubles.” I said, “What have I got to lose?” He said, “Please don’t do that.”

    Next thing I know I have a script for tylenol-3 and plenty of it. I needed something stronger and the fight was on.

    I strongly do not recommend to anyone to do what I did because now the f**king va cops p.o.s.s will shoot you and ask questions later. Remember, it was just words and I believe they realized that and complied. This happened before they were federalized and authorized to carry guns.

    Important: The stupid f**ks thought I wanted to kill my doctor which brought on strained relations with him and every p.o.s. working there.

    This all happened in early 1997 shortly after entering ‘the system of DOOM’.

    Also, I was told that pain is never a factor when they consider disability ratings because the pain can go away. I suffered migraine headaches on top of the severe wound pain. Miserable is the best way to describe it. DUMBASSES!!!

    The f**king whore wife did not help one little bit but made it much, much worse. She lied about her vows, “In sickness and in health…”. The shit she lied about to my mh counselor was the worst part. It was all a scheme to get rid of my ass so she could get a better life with someone else. BITCH! Good riddance! She compounded the pain and misery.

  4. can see it now in my my reevaluation C&P , “ooh mr Ted. you are moving seems like you are not in pain. on my moveable pain scale function test commissioned by our own doctors at the VA and not the commission of licensed facilitating doctors by Health insurance practice of America, your in great shape. you can take that back brace off now and go get some shoe laces you open doors just fine with two hands, with your veil-crow walmart shoes in all. look at u mr TED you smell so sweet what is that painful full shower deodorant . your improving so well MR. TED. you must be a hard worker got alot of dirt on your face breather so hard , damn i wish i can breath that hard most be very strong.aahh what, what mrTed your not improving. well why not if u dont i cant do my job and get my pay check and mark you a 1 one my pain scale. now be a good veteran and get the fuck out my office.

  5. There is a real problem with this decision. How do you come up with a formula that determines the amount of pain suffered by an individual that can be applied uniformly to all individuals who are granted these benefits? Is the pain that one suffers in the thumb equal to pain in the knee or equal to pain in the back? Moreover, how is a determination made as to whether the pain is constant and not intermittent? There also is the underlying problem of individuals making false claims just to receive monies.

    1. @Elmer- I’d be way more concerned about the dishonesty and scamming of the VA employees making claims on behalf of Vets in pain to be able to steal controlled RX’s or create even more VA Appointed Fiduciaries…this rule on pain will likely cost the taxpayers more $$ from the scams these assholes pull and not so much worried about the general morale compass of the Veteran Populace.

      You see, majority of Vets still own that thing called integrity and pride, of which, the VA actually shies away from it just like their kryptonite called accountability.

      The VA is always more worried about any given Veteran filing false travel pay claims, sparing no expense of wallpapered walls and hallways warning every Vet of the penalties of such…seems they are overcompensating for more than small ‘members’.

    2. they dont rely on pain itself but how u move . they are going to say your momvement is limited by your pain not your pain is limited by your movement . meaning this fuck are going to say the reason why your moving is because you dont suffer any pain.

  6. Gee with Shulkin Gone now the VA is starting real housing projects to assist Homeless Veterans. The one new housing project announced today in LA that is going to use the land deeded to the DVA to help Veterans that was abused by the VA. Which I mentioned in an earlier post. Now a second Housing project to help homeless Veterans in Denver that is also being announced today.

    With Veterans homelessness rising under Shulkin. Also with Shulkin trying to get Congress to re-appropriate the $450 million that was approriated to fight Veterans homelessness this year. Guess we now know that it is looking like it will get spent were Congress intended.

    No doubt these are projects that were held up due to Shulkin’s plans to re-appropriate the $450 Million to the Cerner deal that would have made Shulkin a Billionaire.

    Another Way to go Acting VA Secretary Wilkie!


    Affordable housing project coming to Stapleton Moline at Stapleton Apartments is expected to be completed in May 2019.

    Author: Denver Business Journal
    Published: 10:25 AM MDT April 4, 2018

    “Forest City Stapleton and Northeast Denver Housing Center have started construction on a 180-unit affordable housing in Stapleton.

    The developers are working with the Denver Housing Authority, the state of Colorado and Veteran’s Affairs Supportive Housing to supply units to low-income families and veterans. Twenty-two units at the complex, called Moline at Stapleton Apartments (MSA), will be available to homeless veterans and people with disabilities.

    Full Article At: “”

    1. no i dont believe in section 8 housing moving towards our veterans. THUGS that cant get jobs over drugs other than disabled veterans that tried to protect the country should be independent to Low income families or aka section 8 house members. thats awful . its like saying we are going use low leveled street crime members(call them low income familes due from there own travesty ) move them out of poverty in to section 8 housing and hope to god they shoot disabled veterans so congress doesn’t have to worry about there appeals process. police officer dont get life benefits like veterans so what the fuck do u think there going to do? veteran is shot dead by crime ridden section housing 8 members affiliate, government pays the media to look the other way and a cop drives somewhere it doesn’t hurt his or her pension .

  7. Indictment accuses Brian Ganos, Sonag of $200 million scheme to win federal contracts

    By Cary Spivak
    Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
    April 4th, 2018

    “Brian Ganos, owner of Sonag Company Inc., masterminded a fraud and money laundering scheme to capture more than $200 million in federal contracts that were earmarked to benefit small, disadvantaged businesses, a federal grand jury indictment charges.

    The 22-count indictment lays out a complex scheme in which Ganos — who boasts on the Sonag web page that he was once named regional Hispanic businessman of the year by the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce — secretly controlled several businesses.

    The businesses were portrayed to be eligible for government set-aside programs aimed at benefiting disadvantaged companies and those owned by service-disabled veterans, even though they were secretly owned and controlled by Ganos, the indictment charges.

    The scheme lasted for a dozen years, according to the indictment, which charges Ganos with fraud, conspiracy and money laundering.”

    “Contracts received by the companies came from several government agencies including the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and the Army, court records show.”

    Full Article At: “”

      1. Then sprinkle him with industrial strength cosmic catnip and let the ‘big cat exhibit’ come-out and play.
        (I forgot to mention where you hang Brian Ganos from his toes is within the Big Cat Exhibit at local zoo)

  8. Cannabis entrepreneur launches weed for vets nonprofit

    By Kevin Truong
    San Francisco Business Times
    an hour ago

    “The scale of the opioid crisis has led stakeholders to pitch innovative solutions to stem the tide of addiction and overdose deaths. One alternate possibility? Medicinal cannabis.

    Even after returning from active service, many veterans face long-term side effects from their deployments including chronic pain and issues with mental health and anxiety. Owing to some of these issues, veterans are twice as likely to die from accidental overdose from painkillers than non-veterans.

    San Francisco cannabis startup Sublime Canna has launched the Sublime Foundation to provide cannabis products for free to military veterans struggling with opioid dependency through veterans groups and hospitals.

    “We’re trying to remove the stigma for people who have a real medical need for cannabis and changing the perspective of the people who judge them,” said Sublime Canna CEO Alex Fang. “We’re trying to tell them that ‘your discomfort around not having this product is killing people in your community and hurting the ability of veterans to reintegrate into our society.’”

    Data from the Centers for Disease Control estimated that 66,000 people in the country died from accidental opioid overdose last year and the economic cost has been estimated as more than $500 billion.

    While the Department of Veterans Affairs has thus far decided against researching the effectiveness of medicinal marijuana on issues of PTSD and chronic pain, a recent directive from the agency encourages VA doctors to “discuss with the veteran marijuana use, due to its clinical relevance to patient care, and discuss marijuana use with any veterans requesting information about marijuana.””

    Full Article At: “”

  9. Off topic: Ben, I hope you would look into an issue that I believe is common at all VAs, and that is the concept of “Open Access” medical care, and how ignoring that concept is wasting many millions of dollars at VA, and contributing to veteran wait times for care.

    I have commented before about looking at Emergency Room use by veterans at my VA, and how the VA is trying to reduce the number of vets sent to the ER for minor problems.

    At my VA alone, there are over 260 half hour slots that go unused every month in primary care. Every primary care clinic has 2 open slots per day, but they are not being used for vets, because they are going to the ER. This is because vets cannot be seen in those open slots because the VA refuses to allow vets with minor problems to be seen by anyone other than their assigned provider. If a vet runs out of a prescription medicine, or their prescription was lost in the mail or stolen, their only choice is to go to the ER, even though there might be an open primary care slot they could go to for their prescription.
    Another problem is that vets are not aware of those open slots, so rather than going to a primary care clinic for that minor problem, they have to go to the ER and wait for hours.

    Their only other choice is to get scheduled with their primary care doc, which may take weeks to get it.

    This problem of open access is either a misinterpretation of policy, or is dictated by VA HQ. Its a damn shame vets cannot get in to see someone for these problems because some bureaucrat requires they be seen only by their primary care doctor, or the ER.

    If I needed a prescription refilled and had to see some VA provider to do it, I sure as hell would rather see anyone who could do it rather than wait hours in a VA ER.

  10. I was told the my back and bilateral legs where all to be downgraded since the range of motion test was better. However my pain levels have increased, would this help me?

  11. From: “Teaparty Journal”
    “VA Secretary Accepts His Firing!”

    Really, what took “Shyster Shithead Shulkin” so long to figure that one out?
    It seemed like he was going to be more like Hillary “The Butcher of Benghazi” Clinton on why he wasn’t wanted!

    Now, IF only criminal charges could be levied at his worthless, lying, crooked ass!

    1. CE, that may be exactly why he accepted his firing. He was told he was facing criminal charges, if he didn’t shut up.

      He should be facing charges anyway.

  12. Nothing new or surprising here. The V is FAMOUS for asinins, murky, DELIBERATLY missleading statements.

  13. cj ¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ ‘̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/’̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ says:

    Whoever came up with the idea of a pain scale is a fucking moron. On a scale of 1 to 10, how is your pain today?
    Hmmm, let me see, if a woman giving birth, who also has a broken femur sticking through the side of her leg, and also had a nail gun fall on her head, driving a 6 inch spike through her skull is a 10, then I guess at any given time I must only be a 1?

  14. A message to VA’s workforce from Acting Secretary Robert Wilkie


    1. Seymore,
      Did you notice the “comments section” was “disabled” on the video!
      How’s that for wanting suggestions!!!!

  15. Only the VA would ignore debilitating pain as not being disabling. I guess that’s why they prescribed so much pain medication in the past contributing to opioid addiction.

    Would any other federal program like Medicare or Social Security involving disability ignore pain as disabling?

    Would the nitwit who thought pain was not disabling think differently if they were hooked up to a taser shock collar?

    As for reducing earning capacity suggesting that as a reason to declare a disability…it bothers me that it is cited so much here or in other VA rulings. I understand why it is, but this is the VA. I expect at some point, the VA will use it as a way to deny benefits to veterans because whatever disability the veteran might have does not reduce their earning capacity according to some arbitrary, unrealistic VA standard.

    I can see it being used when it benefits the veteran, but not if its used to deny the veteran.

    If a surgeon was injured in some manner that did not affect their skills, is their earning capacity reduced?

    If a truck driver is injured and is in a wheel chair, then uses their benefits to become a lawyer, is their earning capacity reduced?

    The VA was already ignoring disabilities by ignoring pain because some bureaucrat wanted to save money. Why would they not decide to save money by claiming a veterans earning capacity is not reduced by whatever disability they have?

    1. For as long as I can remember the VA has almost always not diagnose any conditions that could be used in a Claim. That left Veterans without treatment and the VA only treating the pain and not the medical problem.

  16. Way to go Acting VA Secretary Wilkie! Fast tracking housing for homeless Veterans in Los Angeles.

    “Veterans Affairs seeks developer to finance, build and run massive housing project
    The agency would lease the land for free on the West LA medical center campus”

    April 04, 2018 08:00AM

    “The Department of Veterans Affairs is looking for a developer to build hundreds and possibly more than 1,000 units of housing at its medical center in West Los Angeles campus, a massive project that comes amid severe turbulence at the federal agency.”

    Full article At: “”

    1. Incredibly, the story about the land going to finally be used as intended thanks to Veterans like Robert Rosebrock.

      From an article by Judicial watch: “Robert Rosebrock was federally charged for supposedly hanging a four-by-six-inch American Flag on the outside fence of a VA facility in West Los Angeles on Memorial Day in 2016. The fence is part of the “Great Lawn Gate” and marks the entrance to the Los Angeles National Veterans Park. The public facility is part of a larger, 388-acre parcel that includes the Veterans Home of West Los Angeles. Since 2008, Rosebrock and a group of fellow veterans have assembled at the gate weekly and on Memorial Day to protest the VA’s failure to make full use of the property to benefit veterans, particularly those who are homeless. Judicial Watch helped represent Rosebrock, who faced up to six months in jail for the ghastly offense of reportedly affixing Old Glory at a site honoring those who served their country. He was also charged with taking unauthorized photographs of both the Flag and VA police, but a judge ruled in mid-April that the charges violated the First Amendment. The Trump Department of Justice (DOJ) has appealed the dismissal of the two charges, however.”

      Full Article at: “”

      1. The Brownshirts don’t like it when you take their pictures…they still think it steals your soul. The only problem is…the average brownshirt has no soul to steal…

      2. Another great article from Judicial Watch on the land that will now be used for Veterans purposes.

        “VA Facility Where Vet Got Prosecuted for Posting U.S. Flags Duped out of Millions by Bribed Official”

        JANUARY 18, 2018

        “An official at the same Los Angeles Veterans Affairs facility where an Army vet got prosecuted for posting American Flags took hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes from a vendor that defrauded the VA out of millions. While the feds went on a witch hunt against the 75-year-old vet for affixing Old Glory at a site honoring those who served their country, the VA director was committing the real crime. This month the corrupt VA official, Ralph Tillman, agreed to plead guilty to two felony offenses for taking over a quarter of a million dollars in bribes from a parking lot operator at the VA Greater Los Angeles Healthcare System in southern California.

        The crooked parking lot operator, Richard Scott, owns a company called Westside Services that has long benefitted from a lucrative contract with the VA. Scott paid Tillman to conceal a scheme in which he failed to pay the VA more than $11 million generated by his operation of the parking facilities, according to the feds. Tillman admitted to federal authorities that he knew the parking lot operator was defrauding the VA out of millions of dollars and that he extended Westside Services’ contract in 2011 to continue the fraud and bribery scheme. Scott personally delivered monthly cash payments to Tillman in sealed FedEx envelopes, according to a statement issued by the Department of Justice (DOJ) that says “Tillman specifically admitted that he took $286,250 from Scott from 2003 through last year.” The disgraced VA official faces up to eight years in prison.”

        Full Article At: “”

  17. kind of wish that had taken place 45 years ago. I always felt it was the pain that cause my anger. Some years ago I became to understand with the help of a non VA connected counselor that the pain prolonged my PTSD and all the demons I dealt with all the years.

  18. @Mark Langenkamp
    Many times a person will recall an important point they stumbled upon long ago, and not remembering the source details. I do recall reading from the source, the point LP is making about the hiring practice of VHA doctors, and the statement is correct.

    Another consideration you might find interesting…
    VA eases the credentialing process.
    In the private sector, Locum Tenens professionals must work through the licensing and/or credentialing process with their agency of choice every time they switch states and/or assignments.

    At VA, only one active, unrestricted state license is required to practice in every VA facility across all 50 States, the District of Columbia, and U.S. Territories. Plus, our Locum Tenens professionals go through the credentialing process just once. With each new assignment thereafter, your credentials will be accepted, and the privileging process will be streamlined.

    VA’s nationwide online credentialing system (VetPro) has been designed to be intuitive and simplify the credentialing process. In a recent national commercial survey of more than 1,200 physicians, 75 percent of respondents with Government practice experience said getting credentialed at VA eased the process for taking subsequent VA positions.

    Read our VetPro Guide for an inside look at the types of information required to complete VA’s credentialing process.

    1. Added correction to my statement, I apologize.
      They aren’t required to have an American Medical Degree.

    2. At least one unrestricted license.

      Unless you are a brain surgeon from Montana working off a revoked license doing 4 brain surgeries on a veteran in 1 month in Iowa.

      The VA doesn’t care about credentials.


    3. @91Veteran
      I dropped-jaw read that column when you posted the other day.
      Four freakin’ times by the same meat carver, and the patient’s daughter an outside VHA nurse. Just reinforces how much of a crap shoot VHA healthcare is for those that signed the line.

  19. No one is assisting me…doesn’t mean I shouldn’t help move this along, however, digging up this intel turns up Many things you’ll probably get angry(er) about. So, heres a clue: VETERANS AFFAIRS STAFFING

  20. Is it too much to ask for source information? Is this not a standard of journalism?

    1. The source as quoted from Ben’s article above is Saunders v Acting VA Secretary Wilkie.

      For your convenience I googled it and here is a link to a copy of the decision.


  21. Did anyone else read the online VA doctor Hiring rule set?
    If they cant find a qualified candidate that is a US citizen and has a medical degree, they Can hire anyone from outside the US even if the person does Not have a medical degree.
    It right in their own damn files…wtf

  22. How the VA or any doctor for that fact comes to the conclusion if you have pain is a joke.
    In my situation they give you the old push pull to see if there is anything wrong with you is a Joke, I could have pushed him across the room yet after surgery he confirmed you did have a pinched nerve, So doesn’t that confirm the test is BULLSHIT Yet that is what they still do, So Monday at my next appointment I am going to ask him about that……..

    1. Don’t forget to ask that hack on Monday to take into account the wind-speed velocity in Germany at that time into his diagnosis based upon your “push/pull”. 😀

      If he/she tries to suggest you are a ‘malingerer’ I would suggest a proper ‘push/pull’ that evokes need for traction. 😀

    2. They aren’t just looking for weak limbs. They are looking for pain responses in your face…for those of us that have none even after being burned or other things, we get screwed because these docs think (from watching movies) that pain responses should be over the top.

      1. Your right about that LP, When I say I hurt I mean It, And I don’t scream and yell about it….LOL

      2. cj ¯¯̿̿¯̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿’̿̿̿̿̿’̿̿̿)͇̿̿)̿̿̿̿ ‘̿̿̿̿̿̿\̵͇̿̿\=(•̪̀●́)=o/̵͇̿̿/’̿̿ ̿ ̿̿ says:

        LP, you are correct!!!

    3. Oldmarine,
      I just went through that bullshit yesterday.
      Seems like the VA can’t get their “physical therapy” minds out of the 1970’s or even as far back as the 19th century!

  23. I think this is it. “”

  24. One has to seriously consider whether these assholes misdiagnose, misinterpret their own diagnosis guidelines, only to (by design) assure “job security” when talks of privatization raise the bristles on backs of the Pig Three and the VA, this sick “job security” is keeping the same assholes misdiagnosis and misinterpretations, only to do it again, assuring that C&P and Board of Veteran Appeals (BVA) waitlists remain long and keep playing the same looping song, “Deny, Deny, Lie, Hope You Die” mantra…

    …performance bonuses seem to only promote & reward lackadaisical assholes…how about we end that too?!

    What I am indeed suggesting is that the U.S. Gov. and by proxy, the VA, are playing this dance all on purpose to save a dime and keep it with the pearls the swine are eating…but…thanks for your service!

  25. Thank you for this valuable information Mr.Krause. I keep on getting silly e-mails from the V$ on general and useless information (i.e. ‘Use. VSO to submit your claim’), but never get important information like this that you gave us today.

    When I found out range of motion is how these idiots measure our disabilities yes, I thought how stupid that is/was. I am in chronic pain – to the point where sometimes I can’t sleep and/or can barely get out of bed. And yes, it limits my ability to walk and/or stand for prolonged periods. I mean, just cleaning my home can be something that leaves me in pain and hurt for several days….yet these morons don’t think that’s an issue?

    Unfortunately, I’m sure they aren’t gonna let us retroactively apply this decision from the courts. And of course, the hacks they have performing your medical exam are probably going to find a way to misdiagnose it.

    1. Seems like the Fed Court ruling stated that the VA made an error, and restated that the law was correctly interpreted to say pain is compensable. I would think that anyone with a denied claim could use the federal case to demonstrate that the VA violated the existing law and therefore committed a CUE.

      Sounds reasonable to me. If the law actually changed, that would be a different story. As it is, this case states in no uncertain terms that the VA made an error interpreting the law for some 19 years now.

      1. “We hold that the Veterans Court erred as a matter of law in holding that pain alone, without an accompanying diagnosis or identifiable condition, cannot constitute a “disability” under § 1110, because pain in the absence of a presently-diagnosed condition can cause functional impairment.”

  26. Here’s a new article out from, “” via “Stars and Stripes”!
    “Veterans Group Calls for Trump to Remove Acting VA Secretary!”

    4 Apr. 2018
    By Nikki Wentling

    Seems AMVETS is joining in on the confusing issue over “Shyster Shithead Shulkin’s” departure as the FAILED leader of the “Most Corrupt Government Agency” in Washington DC and across the country!

  27. Fired or not they still receive their retirements.
    The vet pays for their retirements and has to prove that they have a service related injury.
    Pain is a disability BUT VA handles it as a mental problem, So can a vet set Malpractice suits against the VA for Misdiagnosis of Pain Related Service Injury?
    I have been in pain and treated for pain with OPEOIDS for years.
    Thanks a whole lot VA.

  28. VA Worthless Hack examining Veteran in pain: “Does it hurt when I do this?” **WHACK**!!!!!!!!

    Veteran in pain: “It hurts without your poking & prodding asshole!”

    VA Worthless Hack: “Maybe your imagining this pain, how about this….***WHACK***”??!!!!!

    Veteran in even more pain: “Don’t you have an IED class to teach in your homeland, go back to your desert wasteland you U.S. Gov’t. Works Welfare Program Asshole”!!!

    VA Worthless Hack: “Your pain is imagined, go back to the streets and remember, the VA CARES.”

    Veteran in pain & rightly now pissed: “I have no legs and only one arm and still waiting on wheelchair and I’m in extreme pain”!!!!!

    VA Worthless Hack: “Patient Advocate is out to lunch from 08:00-17:00 Hrs , here’s her call-a-psychic-line business card. The VA CARES.”

    Veteran in pain and at end of ropes: **WHACK/THUMP** (Veteran used remaining arm to shove-up VA Worthless Hack’s ass while telling the Dr. “That seems to be a non-service-connected pain you’re experiencing, can you provide more proof your pain impairs your ability to work”?

    VA Disruptive Committee: “Now you’ve become tomorrow’s Canteen Cafe Meatloaf’s main ingredient”

    Veteran in pain: “But my pain is real”

    DBC Stormtroopers: “Your loafing around will make the perfect Canteen Cafe Meatloaf….**whack***”!

    (this could easily happen)

    1. namnibor,
      Don’t forget the VA Hack saying, “Thank You for your service!” Bullshit!!!!!!!

      1. Thanks, Crazy elf…almost forget that extra helping of bullshit on top as a cherry. More like the blow flies coming-in for a landing on the fresh steaming pile. 😀

  29. Holy mother of created claims & appeals backlog, Batman! Deny, Deny, Lie, Hope We Die…FUCK OFF AND DIE, VA! PAIN IS REAL AND FAR TIME VETS SHARED THIS WITH YOU WORTHLESS FUCKTARDS!

    (yep, in a mood)

      1. Wanna bet the VA will “try” to pull some BS on refilling based upon the Circuit Ct’s decision, by attempting to “invent” a new rule that those refillings can ONLY be used in the handy and *NEW* RAMP program…say goodbye to your nasty appeals forever, RAMP.

      2. from what I’m reading on the RAMP program appeals are preserved somewhat. RAMP sets up 3 “lanes” that appeals fall into. Ostensibly it’s to move appeals along faster since all claims in a particular “lane” are supposed to be of the same type. I still probably won’t use it on my case. Probably just end up with a big clusterfuck of a backlog again anyways.

  30. Here’s something a little off topic. Yet, maybe on topic.
    The next time you go to the VA, bring up a “subject” which may, or may not be political in nature. For example: “I wonder how that Admiral is going to work out, IF confirmed?” or “Did you hear about that local union president putting something people are calling racist on her social media page?”
    The employee’s answer might surprise you.
    Evidently, these few people who have “given [racist] political OP-EDS on Facebook or other social medias” have caused VA’s employees to respond in this way:

    “I’m a government employee and I’m not allowed to have an opinion!” And: “You worked for the government. So, you should know that!”

    See how that works! A civilian, who works for a “government subsidised agency”, is now not allowed to have a “personal opinion” over anything. Which might effect/affect their job security!

    Here’s a question. When civilians apply for and are accepted for employment at VA, (VHA or VBA), do they take an “oath” as we did for military service? Do they take any kind of “oath”?

    1. I would imagine that the average run of the mill employee does not take an oath. What would the reason to have to take an oath be?

      1. WyldeChylde,
        That was exactly the point I was making.
        These employees, represented by a union, are NOT government employees!
        This is why the Veterans Administration is only a “government subsidised agency”! The employees are paid by government checks, like other agencies/businesses; ie: Air traffic controllers, Railroad workers, etc., etc., etc.!
        Unlike true government agencies; ie: military, these agencies aren’t allowed to be represented by a union!
        Therefore, this was only a plausible explanation as to why the answer is given! They’re afraid now to lose their cushy jobs!

    2. There is a federal law that says federal employees cannot partake in political activities. They can have a political opinion but they can’t express it on the job in a manner that appears to be campaigning for a political party or candidate. They do take and it’s an 02 honor and obey the Constitution. But seeing how most politicians ignore it how can we expect federal employees to?

      1. Dave,
        I’ve spoken to some VA employees and have been informed – they “…did not take an oath…!”
        It was explained to me thusly; Each agency has different rules or “ways” they conduct how the employees were hired.
        That being said, IF they aren’t required by some upper managements to take an oath – how can they be called “civil servants”?

        I definitely agree with your stance on why would these “civil servants” expect to follow an oath, when those in government (elected and appointed officials) DON’T follow their Oaths!!!!

        As far as asking VA employees about other employees posting “racist remarks”, which is NOT political in nature, would NOT violate any federal law! Because, it would be asking their opinion over a “moral issue!”

    3. Elf, way of the nation today. No communication, no opinions, plenty of corruption, silencing, and activism.

      We/I was frowned on for asking questions at the VA. I could say ‘nice weather we’re having’ and get blank stares or nothing. I have paid compliments to some and not a word of acknowledgement back. I asked why my E-vet communications and such were totally deleted… all hell broke lose. I asked about a Black old, female MD trying to treat me at the new clinic since leaving the local CBOC, change meds, denied care I’ve had for years after telling me she did not have the time to read my med file. Same thing with her new upcoming fill in foreigner like MD, female. (!?) Ten ton of hell got unleashed and has followed me till this day. And forced me out recently from a civy hospital…. by a pack of females in all positions after my new lefty hospital’s clinic PCP got my files from the VA.

      I guess that means that the new pain clinic staff and other scum at the VA telling us if we wanted better health care to vote Democrat and to support Hillary and Obummer?? Then spew attacks, demands, threats, and other insane requirements to stay at the VA or get pain meds. Or tell us to hit the streets to find some cocaine or heroin for pain issues. Ahem, while spotting SEIU union posters in the elevators and walls. Cough.

      Locally in Terror Haute, IN., usually there is no small talk, discussions of religion or politics allowed in any business here. Not even at the old feed stores or barber shops that used to be places of gossip and news. Maybe the bars if you like to fight or get mobbed if it’s not in favor of corruption going on, etc. Well known business owners will not talk politics because they may know you are not a strict Dem or lefty, or town supporter of all corrupt things happening. They don’t want involved or be ‘punished’ by the herds/Chambers/country clubbers or run out of business. Or attempts made to take a personal consensus on things like the censoring or mob rule only to be quickly labeled then they run to the local council varmints and activist to ensure the community knows all about you, and listed as a total enemy of the state and cliques.

      Funny to think may finally get care at some VA about pain but how’s about the ability to get decent pain meds, or without playing their SSRI games or high doses of Gabajunk.

      Need some clean ideas. Signs? Going to meet with some local videographers to tape me and post me online protesting things like HIPPA violations, censoring, White people/gov/media/VA/colleges here, et al, supporting the Antifa idiots, to “Whites against “White privilege,” groups.

      No health care – no peace?
      HIPPA violations – no peace?
      Corruption/censoring no peace.
      Terre Haute’s kill a vet day or month.
      Needed one ethical oath keeping MD
      Death threats for questioning and leaving the VA?
      Where are my human/Const and civil rights at in Indiana?

      I dunno, gonna go for it though and chasing people away from my FB page. LOL Gotta love the cowards, silent majority, brain-washed and sheep.

    4. A Google search shows an OPM web site that says all federal employees take the same oath as Congress.

      …and many uphold it…the same as Congress.

    5. yes they carry whats called integrity oath to keep all union personnel impunity rights guarded by the so called infringement rights of American people(which is not true meaning ‘freedom of speech’) and the entitlements of all personnel that still carry 11 general orders(which means not taking orders from active services members among there active duty time, unless under the VA’s superior vice and standing orders of the solider command ).

      which is still illegal, union workers cannot conform to American soldiers property appearance because they are disregarded in federal terms under Americans militia practice and property. except, if VA was contracted out not under union obligations or carry a security clearance under federal obligation of a state or department of the us government. meaning if they contract a federal employee.

      and that’s where veterans don’t seem to understand its the bureaucratic contract within the senate and union that they get away with murder on us.

      they swear them in under federal law yet with out federal pending responsibilities do from the ‘UNION’ itself disregard by any American bureau department or legal status of congress which means there obligation are titled under the contractor or union contractor protocol’s of such governmental employee status. if so in action it invade if not goes around any federal oath because they have a right to assemble and a right to pledge(federal union workers).

      it is an illegal oath not set by our U.S constitution because Veteran affairs is not an American bureau department ,here’s were its tricky, federal union commissioners called it a pledge and not an oath . P.s yes Americans a pledge and a oath are different under the technicalities of receiving and administering duty and devotion under the U.S.C law without ,!WITHOUT! contractual obligations . sneaky bastards!!!

      meaning they can say pledge rather oathify or oath out, they cant garder an oath they can lead and follow a pledge . in america law i believe no oath will be carried out under the militia, union or mercenaries by the state within the federal constitution bear the United States without warrant or guarantee by a bureaucratic department with the permission of the house of representatives, congress or president. therefore it is a pledge they take not an oath. sneaky assholes.

      this law was in place before the teamsters union practice took over in the Kennedy era i believe. it was kennedy that re issued the lawful order to by pass it and call it a ‘pledge’ due from, carrying out special overseas mission under top secret agenda of Eisenhower. am still reading in to this although it was Kennedy fault for letting union take over the VA. there is evidence and Julian as strange has it .

      if the united states senate found out they where taking an other under fellow constitutes of the united states other than the oath that has to be granted by the citizen VA would be in a lot of trouble.

  31. I think this just became topical!
    It is also about acting SecVA Wilkie.
    VA’s Interim Leadership Faces Legitimacy Questions
    By Katherine McIntire Peters April 2, 2018 40 Comments
    “Did he quit or was he fired? That’s the central question regarding the departure of former Veterans Affairs Secretary David Shulkin. The legitimacy of acting VA Secretary Robert Wilkie serving in that position could turn on the answer.
    Under the 1998 Federal Vacancies Reform Act, if a Senate-confirmed official appointed by the president “dies, resigns, or is otherwise unable to perform the functions and duties of the office,” the president may temporarily appoint another Senate-confirmed official to serve in an acting capacity until a permanent replacement is nominated and confirmed by the Senate. That’s what President Trump did when he passed over Shulkin’s deputy for the position of acting secretary and named Wilkie, the undersecretary of Defense for personnel and readiness, to take the helm at VA in the interim, while his nominee to permanently lead VA, Navy Rear Admiral Ronney Jackson, awaits confirmation.
    But the law does not say such an interim appointment can be made if the president fires the official that creates the vacancy in the first place.
    “It doesn’t say. That’s the problem,” said Max Stier, president and CEO of the Partnership for Public Service. “The language is not specific as to firing, and it raises a doubt.”
    “One could imagine a scenario in which Congress was concerned about a president getting rid of somebody and trying to insert somebody else who wasn’t in the line of ordinary succession,” Stier said. “I don’t know. I’m not making a legal interpretation here. I’m talking about a practical implication.” In practical terms, that means Wilkie’s decisions and actions could be challenged in court, creating significant uncertainty for the department and its path forward.”…

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