VA Police Kansas City VA

IG: Veterans Affairs Confused About The Role Of Its VA Police

A report issued yesterday revealed Veterans Affairs is mismanaging its VA police force resulting in millions in overtime paid while some veteran patients go without protection.

There are almost 4,000 VA police working for the agency at is 139 medical centers. Those individuals are supposed to work at securing property and preventing crimes. IG found that VHA facilities are performing minimal oversight over their police despite requirement to the contrary. Due to staffing shortages, taxpayers have paid over $26 million in overtime last year alone.

“The governance problems stemmed from confusion about police program roles and authority and a lack of a centralized management or clearly designated staff within (Veterans Health Administration) to manage and oversee the police program,” an investigation report released Thursday said.

The report reveals a real comedy of errors.

A national official who technically was responsible for oversight told investigators a different official was actually responsible for the oversight. When IG asked that person, the director of the Office of Security and Law Enforcement, then told investigators his office “did not have awareness of, or control over, local police activities.”

USA Today highlighted the Seattle example:

The lack of oversight in some cases allowed problems with local police to continue for years without being addressed. In Seattle, for example, an inspection in 2016 found the police chief at the medical center there did not do required supervisory checks on officers or complete security assessments. The inspector general found those same problems had been identified during inspections in 2012, 2013 and 2014.

Why would VA not properly conduct police oversight or appropriately staff its police force for the past 6 years?

“Without an improved governance structure, VA will lack assurance that healthcare environments are safe and secure, and that the program operates effectively and efficiently,” the inspector general concluded.

IG concluded 103 VA medical facility police unites were not inspected within the following prescribed time periods:

  • 95 VA medical facility police units had overdue cyclical inspections by an average of 286 days, or about 10 months, over the two-year inspection cycle; ·
  • four medical facility police units previously rated as marginally satisfactory were not reinspected within one year (with the average for these untimely reinspections at 345 days, or close to 12 months, beyond the one-year reinspection requirement); and
  • four medical facility police units previously rated as unsatisfactory were not reinspected within the applicable 90- or 180-day reinspection requirement (with the average for these reinspections at 162 days, or just over five months beyond the applicable timeline).

Again, why would VA be so lacadazical about its police force all the while its non-veteran employees act scared to death of veterans?

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  1. While I wasn’t a LEO at all, I damn sure could run that office with no problems. I worked for the FED GOV for 25 years and was retired Army as well and I could do it no problem. I always take my job seriously and I wasn’t in it for the money or for the retirement, I wanted to do the best I could and run the best program the Agency had and I succeeded much to my boss’s chagrin. They learned not to mess with me and if they did, they wanted a truce cause I was whipping their asses. They have such slackers and losers in the Fed Gov and it really pisses me off. I have met some hard working Fed Gov employees but there are others that are a waste of space. If you aren’t going to work hard and get things done then go do it someplace else is my philosophy and if they would have promoted me, they know I would have made the right changes and done what needed to be done including giving someone the boot…shameful, just shameful our Fed Gov lets slackers in and let them stay in jobs they are not qualified for. Maybe one day, there will be an epiphany and we will get a decent director who knows what they are doing…??? Not holding my breath…

  2. 12/17/2018

    Dear Benjamin Krause,

    It took Five (5) Christmas to find out the Police force was being over paid, Why?

    Should it not be the other way around under paid and overworked?

    Or is it Hush Money?


    Don Karg

  3. As a DoD LEO at a smaller facility (not VA, but DoD never the less), and as a Retired Veteran (SNCO), I say Will hit the nail directly on the head. We are CIVILIAN LEO’S, not Military. Therefore, we need Active or highly decorated/commended RETIRED CIVILIAN LEO’s that were Supervisors to be hired on in the managerial tier, to correct these issues I see my brothers and sisters over at the VA encounter. Stop hiring washed up former Veterans or Military Retirees that think they’ll settle into their own little kingdom at the cop shop, and run roughshod over their employees. STOP relying on your agency’s own IG to correct the problem; remember, they represent the Agency, not you. Proper, authentic, thorough documentation is key; without that, you’ve got nothing and you will be stuck with the slugs that drag us all down. ALL of the cops need to get together as a team, and run what they see up the proverbial food chain. If that fails, exercise your Constitutional Rights, and lateral out to your Legislator. Here’s how I patrol daily; give me the respect you think you’re due and I’ll react accordingly. And I agree wholeheartedly on the training issue: STOP sending us to the VA or FLETC; START sending us to the local academy’s right here in the same state we work. live, and will (hopefully) retire in. That way, we actually get a sense of how the cops in actual municipalities are expected to interact with their local community. The leadership, rank, and file need to bear this in mind: we FEDCIV LEO’S wouldn’t exist without the Veterans. Nor would the bulk of the FEDCIV service. Veteran’s are our most precious resource. Period.

  4. Full disclosure, I am a “Barney VA Cop”. I can’t speak to the experiences of the other veterans above me and I hope for the love of all things holy these are embellishments. I can’t and won’t defend those that give us a bad name. At my facility we do our best to be visible, personable, and approachable. We are a large facility and there are some cops here that we do make our best effort to peer them out. Between the union and scared management unfortunately they stay with us. We try to burry them on night shift they don’t deal with the general vet population.
    The oversight at the “local level” is done by the facility directors. This HAS to change if we want to improve vet care. When we observe and investigate fraud waste and abuse and the director has the final say on wether it moves forward that is a huge issue. How can we ever truly hold them accountable when their finger is on the scale. The agents for the Inspector Generals won’t take any cases that aren’t an easy win. Even at the academy “Do what your facility director and Chief tell you” is commonly uttered when legit questions are posed to the special agents. Change at the top of the Office of Security and law Enforcement is needed. Here is what is widely regarded in the ranks as what needs to happen…
    Just because you were an Air Force Colonel and did investigations doesn’t mean you’re ready to run an entire force of 4,000 cops. A retired Marshal, FBI, or DEA career official needs to be in this spot to make the effective changes down to the lower levels and centralize this organization under one umbrella.
    Take away the directors influence over the cops, and let them hold employees accountable for their part in why the VA has issues. If a veteran gets an octave above loud learn to deal with it instead of calling us because you are scared. They don’t want to see us anymore than we want to respond to a bull crap call like that. Learn to listen better.
    Our academy is OK, but not great. The government has a federal academy already in Glencoe, but you send us to Little Rock? Little Rock is Trump University where a lawyer and some salty “special agents” do more to validate and keep their jobs than they do in training a professional police force. Instead of pumping money into that academy, why not send the Police to Glencoe? Then for continuous in service training allow them to go to state run police training in the states they serve to better serve their VA communities. This is also a cheeper option.
    Hire better and enforce a physical standard. You should not be morbidly obese trying to read the riot act to a 26 year old Iraqi freedom vet and expect to EVER get taken seriously.

    1. Yep, thanks for the input and understanding, Will. You get a full cylinder with speedy loaders or choice of full clips with back-ups. Hopefully they issue out those Tasers or not so deadly protections too. (Smiling)

      IMNSHO I see no change coming from the top nor the local levels (corrupted top to bottom) which seems to me are far beyond any kind of change or improvements. Local directors in some states simply don’t give a damn and are totally beyond reach or contact. If they or one is forced to step down their replacements aren’t much better. We also know that no change in any unions/fraternal orders will come either.

      Not many cops out there care to be understanding professionals that can/could easily de-escalate certain situations rather than making matters worse or more deadly. Then at times we are dealing with very young people with very little life experience wearing badges, fresh out of college and packing heat… with issues. Then to go deeper into the world of crap are the issues of nepotism and all those nefarious connections that just want to place their own in some employment/power position, and will be supported or protected no matter what they do. If some state’s millionaires or billionaires want their family or G-kids inserted/employed by the Government, get a BAR pigskin, or wear badges there is no stopping it.

      At least I can report having contact with some LEOs, a couple, that quickly ceased some BS at the VA, tore up a ticket, to telling me to go on my way and not worry about some freak with a chip on his shoulder (along with other VA staff standing by claiming to be his witnesses who weren’t around previously) or seemingly enjoying creating chaos for whatever reasons.

      1. T, you are correct. No changes will most likely ever happen. I think if this was supposed to be a serious report, they would have visited more than 5 facilities. Been in this job 11 years and I just happen to have the good fortune to be at a decent facility. Proud to report all but one of our officers are veterans too and the majority of us get our care their also. I may be wrong but I think this report was a lame attempt to say “see, we are trying to police our own”. If it were true, names would be associated with it. Not one mention of Fredrick R. Jackson. Jackson is the director of the office of security and law enforcement. He is the Air Force Colonel I referenced in my post, no real law enforcement experience outside the military. He retired, then slid into this job where there has been some changes and growth, but not nearly enough.

  5. Last year I went in to the Audie Murphy Hospital for an overnight sleep study. Half way through the night I woke up and tried to find the two Sleep Specialist Nurses that were supposed to be monitoring 8 of us Vets. I wandered the floor and every floor of the hospital and not once was stopped by anyone to ask me what I was doing. I could not find one Police Officer anywhere. They must have been outside writing tickets. Scary to know that anyone has complete access to the floors and patient rooms. Thugs, thieves, terrorists, etc. I was a civilian police officer in LA for 20 years and never felt unsafe as I do going into a VA Facility. As to my fellow Vets with screwed up homes growing up, been there. You have my respect in dealing with all that crap. Peace!

  6. It was about ten years ago or so when a VA cop snuck up behind me while walking to appt. after I came into the VAMC and ripped a phone and it’s case off my hip. I spun around in defensive mode and said “WTF you trying to steal my phone for!!?” (Very loudly) She said she thought it was a “weapon” and started apologizing immediately. I made a complaint and that was the last I heard of it. No apologies from anyone official or anything, probably not even logged into any records. I figured I’d just let it go as the most that would happen is probably some form letter saying she was acting in the “best interest of Vets” or something corny like that. Been going to the VA long enough to know not to be on the bad side of the VA police after seeing so many Vets escorted around to their appts.(Which I have seen a lot of lately) and escorted out. Geez, but don’t go over 15 MPH because there is radar set up every three or four blocks around the complex….

    1. Also don’t park in the closest most accessible parking that handicapped or even disabled Vets could park closer to ANY VAMC….those hallowed parking spaces are for the employee’s manatee figures. And by God, don’t DARE parking even mistakenly in an employee easy access parking spot because the Barney Cops JUST LOVE those offenses…almost as bad as claiming .06 cents over on travel pay voucher…almost.

  7. @Jim,
    I remember that for at least a few years prior to Summer ’93, many patients had most of their medical needs met at the larger VHA facilities and were referred rather timely to them for needs not able to be met by their home facility. In some cases, this may still be the normal procedure. I have tried to recall any time, when both DoD and VA were simultaneously fully funded to adequately dispense to those requiring their services. IMO, many of the veteran’s are dealing with issues that can be traced to the seeds planted by #41’s SecD. He routinely led the underlings to cut off weaponry previously authorized by Congress and also downsizing the military, while polishing his own apple of decreasing DoD spending. During that time, he was actually hanging around in the oil rich ME making deals and allegations that would eventually create just enough conflicts before #42’s administration. This leaves #42’s SecVA to find ways to accommodate the needs of incoming conflict veterans to VHA/VBA and therefore reducing or refusing, clinic availability and services to established patients of same.

    We all know well what Dick was doing during #42’s time in office… hanging out and making deals in the ME again and setting up new acquisitions for fabulous returns on his stock options, while veteran’s of #41’s are left to fend for themselves. I think many of our issues related to the VA can be safely plopped onto Dick’s shoulders. Don’t forget, his close ties with that family go back at least to #43’s Grandpappy. No wonder he was chosen to be #43’s Usurper in Chief with family blessings, and we’re still at war both in-service and thereafter. The only way I see for us to get the proper needed care by quality physicians, that are allowed to practice their craft in the PATIENT’S BEST INTEREST, is to keep our troops out of other people’s conflicts.

    … and to date, the spending into the DoD war chest continues.

    1. Yes. I heard from other, older veterans when I first got into the system back around late ’95 that things were changing – – – and not for the better. Got to admit that I did not pay too much attention to Cheney until he became VP.

      Thanks for providing some historical perspective. I certainly agree with you that we need to be keeping our troops out of other people’s conflicts.

      Just amazes me that American’s will put up with having their kids sent off to war only to come home broken, if they come home at all – – – while the people that send them make a financial killing from the stocks they hold in munitions companies, etc.

      My family has a long tradition of military service to this nation. Had my son lived, I would have done everything in my power to discourage him from joining the military.

  8. So how much does it cost to run the Office of the VA-OIG?
    Ok, mine turn to tell you a few things I filed a White House complaint and a VA-OIG regarding VAMC-Albuquerque Police who were waiting for me on the morning of an appointment in 2018.Thy ambushed me with a bogus ticket in the parking lot.They made it worse after I attended a PTSD meeting with DR Fallon I went out to my car and found three more tickets on my windshield totaling $250.00 , not the $50 i was apprehended for. I went to security and they told me to plead guilty in Federal Court (OFC Larson) that the Courts would go easy on me. It didn’t stop there I got the CHief involved , Mr McMurray who went with my wife and I to the Asst Directors office withj a complaint of fraud. They brought in the Cop named Clay who could not keep her story straigth , sying there were no witnesses- I asked how dis my wife get to the hospital if she wasn’t in the car with me ( by VA Star Trek Tele-transport?) . On top of this OfC Butts claimed i ” clipped a car” ” get the hell out of my office”. This is the kiund of treatment i got for complaining about quality and safety at the VAMC Albuquerque. I am an expert in the area of Patient Safety and had previously met with Director Welch and Randy Vigil over safety and quality issues, I even offered to volunteer at this facility. They set this up as punishment. I filed an FBI complaint because of the threatening nature and because my wife and I were stalked back to our car by Campus Police… To date , the VA-OIG office has not responded to my complaint. Nothing has been done and because of this and the kind of setups and controls they have with scheduling ( especially if they think you are going to advance your claim) they are dangerous people and so dangerous I had to move out of the State of New Mexico. Here below is a list of people who I believe are involved. For whatever its worth my advice to you as an RN with 25 years experience: STAY off the Federal Reservation known as VAMC-Albuquerque, to go there is to risk your life, your sanity and your future.
    If you complain they will offer you gobs of mind control pills and stalk you with Electro-Convulsive Shock Treatments. I authorize the release of this post to federal agencies..Blah Blah ..Bllah- a bunck of highly paid lying assed MF’s:
    VAMC-Albuquerque Operators involved in my White House and OIG-complaint.
    John St Syr- VARO
    Romero- VARO
    Loll McDaniels-VARO
    DR Roldan- VAMC
    DR Walker- VAMC
    DR Berger- VAMC
    DR Betsy Ross VAMC
    OfC Clay- VAMC
    OFC Larson- VAMC
    OFC Butts- VAMC
    DR Tiquan
    Dr Rodriguez
    Director Welch- VAMC
    Asst Director Broessler

    1. Fuck em all. I hope they get cancer in their Christmas stockings.

      You’re not the only one though, brother. I’ve been harassed by VA police and having been friends with lots of cops, trained and deployed with cops and had almost weekly dealings in them in my shitty neighborhood I am hip to how they operate. My local city police are pretty cool, having always dealt with them while legally armed they have never disrespected my rights even if I had them called on me.

      My attorneys have advised me to not have any contact with the VA or their facilities due to the nature of harassment. Become to much of a force for them to reckon with and they sick their dogs on you. I just tell them my attorneys name and say I have no problem taking matters to court and draining my bank account to expose their fraud.

      Really wanna piss them off? Ask what police department they work for and where their jurisdiction is. Professionally question them with respect and give them the business and never back down on the law or your rights.

      Tell them it’s beginning to look like a harassment suit and it’s time for you to contact the fbi and contact and retain legal services to sue the department. They count on threats and intimidation to shut you up. It’s up to you to use facts, the law and your rights to counter this so they know they can’t manipulate you.

      I can’t stress to enough to always remain professional when speaking to them even if they don’t like hearing the truth or seeing their tactics fail.

      God bless and merry christmas

  9. VA police over time is just another game for the unionized VA police. They work each others deals and make the cash just like the Railroad crews of days gone by. Years ago railroad worker could put hundreds of hours on their time sheet and nobody would blink and eye cause the Government would subsidize the RR each step of the way sort of like the post office

  10. Does the fact that the VA Police have no oversight really surprise anyone? I have watched them for years. For the most part they do nothing to protect the veterans. As far as the VA is concerned we, the veterans, are the enemy. I have witnessed fraud, waste and abuse by the system for so long. Been abused by that same system. I, for one, do not trust any of them. Trust is a very fragile thing; once broken, more often than not, ca not be put back together again. So often I hear the words, “forgive and forget” , yet they the VA, never learn. They continue with the same crap, day in, day out. How many times do I let them try to kill my husband off. How many times are they allowed to postpone or ban me from receiving treatment. It does not matter to me whose in charge at the White House level, when the lower rank and file are allowed to continue with their murderous ways. They even taunt you with what they’ve done.

  11. The Veterans Administration is ‘confused’ system-wide on almost every issue concerning what veterans really need. Senior Management does not know whether they have been shot, fucked, powder-burnt, or snake bit.

    My fondest wish in life is to live to see the day when I could honestly say the VA is taking proper care of me, and to be able to tell that to other folks. Based upon my experience over the last twenty-five years, I will most likely be older than Methuselah prior to that happening.

  12. Narcisa or sadism? Attracted to power positions for the sake of power or the unhuman enjoyment of others pain?

    Few good cops. And VA Cops forget they are their to protect the veterans as well as the staff. At least they do keep an eye on the deceased’s vehicles and property.

  13. Y’all have expressed every thing I have experienced throughout my life! Including my family life!
    So, I’m not going to express what I had to put up with throughout my life!
    Well said by everyone!

  14. “Real comedy of errors?” The whole entire country and sociopaths that run it.

    Damn odd we gimped up old geezers are told we can’t protect ourselves while on the road for hours, heading into violence/gangsta/thug filled big cities for health care then hit the VA centers with signs warning about “no weapons on this property allowed.” That includes items in your vehicle they can claim are weapons with or without permits… is breaking their laws. Stun guns aren’t allowed, no firearms, no ball-bats, etc. Then be told they can search us or our vehicle at any time they desire. Especially after having an issue with a federal LEO or lying ass patient advocates on property playing power games with people or making false accusations/putting words in our mouths to create more shit.

    And not even supposed to record things for our own protection or use. Hmmm, not even ball-bats so does that include weapons like tire irons, canes, crutches, and tools too? Need to shut off that personal dash cam too because of “privacy rights?” Then expect some kind of protection from someone in blue that we can’t even have a casual conversation with or ask for info ….. since they “aren’t road maps or social workers.” That want to pull a weapon on ya for a small parking lot dispute over orange cones mysteriously set around your vehicle by some mystery person? Yeah, be afraid but not afraid of the majority of us. Be afraid of federal employees first. Then the thuggery, beggars with attitudes, illegals, and criminals/activist on campus, off, and trying to enter or get out of densely populated areas with all the negative/corrupt types out there. That includes all those who protect “their own” and possibly make us look like the crazies or some kind of violent creatures not fit for their societal expectations and whims. With the media, file manipulators, on and off body cam switches, and under-the-carpet-sweepers at their command? Oh, and they can always come up with more so-called witnesses than we possibly can for defense.

    Just like other “oversight” or “investigating” issues with the VA… or society as a whole. They should contact some of us out here if they want to do really do their jobs or investigate some many connected issues. To see who should fear who and what. Oops forgot. Chronic pain patients needing pain meds…. automatically in need of physical therapy and told to see psychiatrist for it. Don’t know who is worse at making us all look bad or putting the fear in the public over us. Hollyweird, predatory medical systems/VA, U.N. or gubbermint/special interest groups/SJWs.

  15. “…Again, why would VA be so lacadazical about its police force all the while its non-veteran employees act scared to death of veterans?…”

    The VA Barney Cops are *ONLY THERE* to protect the heaps of saturated fat asses working there FROM we oh-so-dangerous Veterans…seems to me we Veterans need REAL PROTECTION from the assholes getting more saturated in industrial weight-testing furniture…the VA is killing Vets not other way around.

    Difference is…VA Barney Cops don’t keep the round in their pockets and are trigger taser happy…

    I have a swell idea! How about placing all the set-free VA laboratory canines as protection for Vets from these saturated fatties? Doggies are always willing to eat a fatty snack….

    1. Woof woof meow meow. I dunno how to describe the noise my ferrets make. They call it “dooking” which is like a funny chuckling chattering sound but they make a funny hissing sound if you piss them off.

      What I do know is cats and ferrets are much better pets than VA employees. You can get after em with a rolled up newspaper if they get too far out of line without being shot or beaten to death.

      1. My Maine Coon Cat-Mix also makes chattering, raccoon-ish like sounds, very volcal cat but never a normal sounding cat…but I also am not normal….HAHAHA

        Try to have a great Friday and weekend and love your family well immediately under your own roof and screw all else!

  16. Thanks Benjamin for bringing this to light. I know I commented about this article yesterday and it’s just another example of how incompetence seeps through all facets of the department. Not only are the police mismanaged but they behave with impunity much as the employees.

    To answer your question about why the civilian work force is afraid of veterans is complicated, so I’ll try to explain my view point. As with all things complicated it’s not easy, so here goes.

    I’ve grown up with abusive narcissistic family members most of my life. In fact, I joined the military to get away from them and have an opportunity to start my own life free of their toxic behavior. I have noticed a lot of 2020 hindsight since I started researching the condition. It’s also kept my wits sharp when dealing with the general public.

    If there is one thing I have noticed with all of my dealings with narcissists or beta males who put up a tough guy front or feminists cunts it’s that deep down they are really, really scared of accountability, having lights shone on their behavior that they try to cover up much like a cat in the litter box or being bested at their own game.

    Their ego is so overblown and swollen that they can’t handle the notion of someone else being better than them. They are afraid little mice in the world and when the propaganda is fed to them about veterans being some kind of big bad wolf they buy it hook, line and stinker.

    Let’s face it. Veterans who were drafted and forced to fight or volunteered to fight are hero’s of this republic. Hard for someone stuck in a childish, mentally stunted mind set to admit someone is more of a hero than them when that overblown narcissistic ego comes in to play isn’t it?

    Fear something long enough and you begin to hate it.

    To whit: yesterday someone tried to respond to my last comments of the day. I have a knack for being brutally honest and fairly rough around the edges but my wife says that’s because I’m a real salty man. The last bastion of manhood in a broken spoiled generation if you will. I did not grow up in a perfect family with lots of money and so forth. Their response was classic gaslighting by not responding to any of the facts of my argument and instead trying to his behind religion as a smoke screen.

    In fact, I can’t begin to describe what it’s like to know all of your parents and step parents are disordered narcissists who will go to no lengths to fuck you over, sabotage you and so on. That’s why I’m permanently no contact. The last dealings I had with them almost landed me in prison for someone starting a fight and me simply defending myself. Fortunately, I had a good criminal defense attorney.

    My own father dropped out of the core after maybe 4 weeks of boot and sure enough as they tell you in boot if you give up now, you will always give up. And that’s what he became. A quitter and a loser. He was so jealous of my success that fucker even snuck by my house one night and stole the calico cat my wife got me as a welcome home present because his cunt wife (a west side crack whore) coveted it.

    I’m an expert in spotting and sniffing out narcissistic behavior and the VA reeks to high heaven of them.

    1. Seems you and I have rather similar families….mine so toxic, even father’s funeral and having to be exposed to their religiosity and condenscending attitudes and JUDGING of ANYONE not JUST LIKE THEM…a narcissistic christian father that only did 3 years of ROTC to EVADE the draft and I was elder son having only baby…so my dad NEVER served, nor did he EVER FINISH COLLEGE and NEVER went to BOOT CAMP or finished ROTC because he dropped-out…
      …yet the narcissistic christian dad planned his own funeral to a T…and his last LIE burned through my heart at funeral when he had instructed pastor to state my father SERVED….no he didn’t…he AVOIDED Vietnam!!
      So I hate holidays and my few friends are my family because a tiny aerosol drop of my family could kill the Addam’s Family.
      So you’re not alone with shit sandwiches of family and I too, joined military as a form of grand escapism. My family is always religion over family…have not had a family holiday gathering since like 1979 when a grandmother dies that seemed to be the sinew of family…father’s mother….hell, he even let industrial age factroy family business go to shit….damn, hate, hate narcissistic assholes…POTUS, looking at your orange train wreck! Damn!
      VA is in worse mess it’s EVER been in now…

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