STUDY: Veteran Suicides 20 Daily As Of 2014

veteran suicides

The number of daily veteran suicides (as of two years ago) was 20, dispelling the belief that 22 commit suicide daily. But is this a meaningless distinction?

On aggregate, veterans make up 18 percent of the nation’s suicides despite comprising 9 percent of the overall population. Approximately 70 percent did not regularly use VA. As of 2014, over 7,400 veterans take their lives yearly.

This is a number that is revolting while VA stands by to do little. Should they get a pat on the back for verifying the number of veterans suicides are 2 less per day?


The new study was a compilation of 50 million veterans from 1979 to 2014 from every state. VA hopes the new information will help the agency better develop policies to help combat suicide related issues.

But the new numbers certainly cannot help VA pick up the phone or answer text messages from suicidal veterans presently struggling, right? New data cannot make VA care.

Very recently, VA was caught failing to respond to messages from suicidal veterans up to 30 percent of the time.

So the new data is interesting, and it shows the number of suicides per day is two less. But how will it make VA do their job better?


In 2012, when I was with Veterans For Common Sense, we lost a class action lawsuit against VA aimed at forcing the agency to improve its suicide prevention and PTSD treatments. We lost in part due to false representations by VA officials to the court.


Those false representations contributed to our overall loss, which also created an even more difficult preclusion against class action lawsuits related to benefits.

What is next? VA knows the suicide rate is still bad for veterans, meaning VA did not clean up its act despite the public awareness benefit of our lawsuit back then.

Are we merely left to wait and die while VA seems to do little more than plod along aimlessly for its own benefit? Perhaps that is the case.


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  1. I really wanted to participate in the discussion of vet suicides and the VA driving us to desperation. But I changed my mind when I started reading the BS posted by my extreme right-wing, narrow-minded, distracted brother and sisters in arms. So, instead, peace.

    1. I am curious as to what your thoughts are. I know that we all have our own versions of getting lost in our mantras, and it can be refreshing to hear to hear something that gives us pause to ponder.

    2. One other piece that is in place for me – I learned how to use my hands – having a gun or knife is not necessary, so I am careful to not put myself in a place where I am threatened.

    3. Madison has had a great VA. I used to go there from 1997 until about 2010.

      Don’t be so narrow minded about ideology. Vets have earned the right to offer an opinion, either right or left.

      1. I agree with you, and try not to be narrow with my ideology. I am apolitical, but I have been knee deep working with the system at a great personal cost to myself and my family – at the request of the Administration. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the answer – as a CPA I try to be as objective as possible with the information presented. But I am keenly aware of the abuses contained within the system at various levels and in different Agencies. So, I had a steep learning curve in learning how to circumvent the bad and work with the good. Because bitching all the time does not solve anything – constructive work does. I am, however, disabled, and the policies of the Army in deliberately understating injuries to avoid compensation is documented in the Congressional Register, and that has impacted me since 1977 to my detriment and to my family’s detriment. I also get to talk with families of veterans dying with the VA continuing to deny full benefits despite the fact even with redacted items on their DD-214 it was clear they served in Viet Nam. I hear the betrayal in the families of the veterans – and I ave my very negative experiences with the VBA. I have been with the head of the Oval Office OMB trying to use numbers to show that denying veterans coverage actually costs the government far more than by awarding it. He agreed,, but he can not get the numbers from the VA to prove the case. So now I am working with the Congressional Budget Office to try and get those numbers. My experiences are reflected in my comments. I believe in giving credit where credit is due – it took almost 30 years, but I finally started to get some very good medical care at my facilities, and I thank those providing it and make the brass aware of their good works. I have also been in high level conferences with top VA and DoD officials where the only thing they do is lie to deflect blame from themselves. My comments are based on these extensive experiences. And when my body is aching, and I can’t walk, I still get pissed and cranky. And then I do not have my painkillers because somebody at Jet Blue stole them when they told me to put my bag in the hold at the gate, even though I told them my meds were in it. Just one more layer of nonsense that continues to build – which happens for many of us. For those of us who do we try to provide hope – and help.

  2. If all we Veterans were to march even peacefully up and down major highway express on/off ramps, block major traffic while crying for the VA to get back to it’s original mission and garner public attention on Veteran Suicides, I am BETTING we Veterans would be rounded-up/arrested, black helicopters, and the VA Police get to try-out their brand new additions to their “arsenal” that Seymore Klearly pointed-out this week. Maybe even some new forms of riot control that if it works on Vets, then the VA can sell the contract to civilian police? Yep, I went there.

    What I am trying to convey is with recent escalated events in USA, we Vets may very well be looked-upon in media-driven skeptical light because today while surfing various Sunday news programs, most particularly Fox News, I heard over and over, digging deeper and deeper into the “demented Vet with mental issues…and guns”, in the pushed conversation and dialogue, again, by no other than the IDIOT MEDIA, while totally ignoring the out of control lawlessness and god forbid the media even really acts or talks like we are in active wars still. Almost a turned inside-out plot of Orwell’s “1984”….but that war churns onward, overseas, and within. Not very proud of our USA right now nor our POTUS controlling this dialog and fueling it. I just do not get it.


    1. Note: even the program “60 Minutes” ran a story on the Veteran in Arizona on Death Row that Arizona decided to use an untried, experimental drug cocktail to administer Lethal Injection in which Joseph Wood took 2 HOURS to die and was administered and readministered 15 Times, convulsed violent all that time….yet, Arizona Attorney General said this Veteran deserved to die, and the way it played-out, regardless of totally being against the 8th Amendment Rights…yeah, the news is full of painting the public perception of the demented Vet.

      1. @namnibor
        It’s been over forty (40) years since a ‘draft’! Which means, veterans as a formidable foe, is no more. What can such a small contingency accomplish in Washington DC? Maybe this is why our VSO’s have become traitors to our cause? They no longer care about anything except what can line their pockets!
        Some say they help veterans. Yet, when one sees the truth, one begins to see the truth! Sound confusing? It shouldn’t. When has anyone watched what the many VSO’s have said in front of any Congressional Committee? Sad to say, it seems they defend the VA and not the veterans.
        It’s up to all veterans to change the mindset of the VSO’s, or let the world know what we really think about them!

        Rant over for tonight!

    2. I have learned in life for me the comments that I really despise or the attitudes that I really hate are at times those things that are trying to tell us something.

      The idea that a mentally ill veteran with weapons is pf course not new at all. It is not illegal to be mentally ill of vourse and not either to posess a weapon unless judicial proceedings of some sort happen. The truth is that I have myself sat in as a participant in countless support group session with mentally ill veterans, he majority of which experienced extreme trauma. Very harsh stuff.

      The vets in that group comprised two categories. I had been diagnosed with severe suicidal ideation, a common symptom of severe PTSD. The other category of vets had been diagnosed with severe homocidal ideation. We had all come together to seek help for a problem that many cannot recognize on their own.

      That group will scar you for life if you sit in for more than six months. The horror of life really focuses there. Let me tell you the truth. There are some veterans that scare the bejesus out of me. They are not criminals, or at least did not start out that way, but the truth is that all of them have indeed undergone rigorous and intensive training to learn how to kill people.

      Some got really good at it. I think his issue of tiny bits waging his own Rambo war hits the nerve in America that is still very raw in me; war produces warriors. Warriors learn to kill. Some warriors cannot leave that skill behind – they cannot undo the programming so easily. To be blunt, on at least a few occasions I simply could not understand sometimes in our support group after session how some of the vets simply walked out and left after confiding they too had planned or routinely pondered just such a horrific act.

      On only one occasion was an individual escorted to a “safe place” when he admitted he had purchased the weapon to do it. He had already been convicted of a felony crime(s) in life so his admission was a felony. He went to a place safer for everyone.

      Labels are just labels and you are not a monster if you do not act like one. Thoughts are not currently punishable in America except at the VHA, but I cannot so easily dismiss my own experiences listening to the thoughts of just some returning vets who just cant see solutions that do not involve the very things that kept them alive – their gun, and yes, killing.

      1. I believe this new VA report on veteran suicides is bogus and designed to make the VA look better than what it really is.

        The original suicide study done by the VA showed 22 suicides per day. What most people don’t know, because they only read the headline and not the report, is that of the 22, 19 were Vietnam era vets.

        The Vietnam war ended in 1975. The new study totally excludes Vietnam vets as it’s only vets from 1979 until 2014. Why did they start at 1979 instead of 1960 when the war was just beginning to flare?

        The answer, to me, is simple. If they had included the Vietnam era vets the actual suicide number would be much higher than 20, or 22. My guess it would be between 30 and 40 per day with half being from the Vietnam era.

        By purposely excluding the Vietnam era vets they made the number of suicides much, much lower than the actual number would show. A higher number than the one they show on the new report would have drawn even more attention to the VA’s lack of proper mental health for veterans and made the VA look even worse than the original report showed.

        This is disgraceful, but certainly not a surprise from an agency that has become known as the most corrupt government organization in the federal government, and that is saying a lot!

      2. There have been other studies by credible groups showing more than 30 per day. The 22 was only an extrapolation of some statistics that were incomplete.

      3. That is shocking that they did not include Vietnam vets, and I not only agree with you that the number would be much higher, but I believe it points to an even bigger problem in the VA.

        You have to ask, if such a majority of suicides ARE Vietnam vets, they should have been in the VA system and properly being taken care of for years. What would cause an older veteran so much despair as to make them commit suicide other than complete apathy by everyone at the VA?

  3. This article opens more questions to be asked regarding the Army Reservist in Dallas incident and oh, on many other forums people are seriously questioning the lone gunman, as they too, saw and heard, not just chaos, but at least three separate locations, radio confirmations, even video of shooter on ground in front of building that ambushed the cop from behind….while another gunman was above and inside the parking garage….hmmmm.


    1. Just now on “48 Hours”, although they HAVE mentioned the two *different snipers from above* **WHILE** a shooter was on ground….BUT they are trying to say this guy was able to move from different high points all at THE SAME TIME….a time shifter or something…come on, please….the lies are way out of control. HOW does this remotely make sense other than in a SciFi Movie or Novel?

      So were the two….wait, three…other shooters….in custody…just part of the New Black Panthers Party….once removed, not associated with the LONE killer, who pledged allegiance to? R-r-r-r-r-ight. I smell tons of steaming poo and I just know somehow this is going to reflect a negative light on military vets.

      1. It does not matter at all that the man made a living once in our military so far as I can see. Even if he once claimed e name of Veteran. He committed murder. I do not know people that judge me as a vet based on anyone elses actions except the VHA. The general public is more merciful.

        The simple truth is that people are simple. Irregardless of who was or was not involved, the man has been labelled a “shooter” by the media it seems alhough it is a poorly chosen name. It confers dignity of sorts where there is a complete void of that trait. His failure as a human being is not anyone elses collar to wear in hell. Simple folks know this. Simple folk also,know that the clown painted faces on the nightly news are a bit more like professional wrestlers of the truth; truth is all well and fine, but a great show is necessary to sell tickets to the match, so like po wrestlers they keep their pie holes flapping and flapping and flapping….I guess I never did care for pro wrestlers.

        The man who was blown up to me has no label of race, creed, or history. His name now to me is tiny bits. Like it should be. Now we pick up the pieces from a well coordinated and carried out attack by tiny bits.

        He has no other name.

  4. To everyone, I do believe y’all need to read this article.

    Published about 10 hours ago, from:

    “WND Front Page”
    (Concerning the),
    “Dallas Snipers”

    title to google:

    “Muslim Radicals Poised to Exploit U.S. Racial Tensions”

    According to this article, two things;
    “Black Nationalists, Nation of Islam influenced Dallas cop killer.”
    and, this radical “…group called the Black Power Political Organization took credit for the Dallas Attack!”

    @Robin Mitchell,
    It could be conceivable your ‘hypothetical scenario’ could become reality in the days and weeks to come. Maybe this was their intention(s) all along!

    I also believe, not only will we see massive, (possibly armed), conflict at the ‘Republican National Convention’. We will also see the same thing at the ‘Democratic National Convention’!
    These “radical groups” are poised, in my opinion, to disrupt, by any and all means possible, including the killing of innocent lives, to deny our “right” of selecting the President. (Whether your for either incumbent is irrelevant at this point!)

    It’s been reported, through “” and other outlets, “Soros and his paid protesters”, (or “paid assassins” if you prefer), will try their best to close down the upcoming elections!
    What has happened since Thursday and again on Friday, the ‘random assassinations of law enforcement officers’, is only a “preview” of things to come!

    Also, what has happened since Bill Clinton met Loretta Lynch out in Phoenix is another “possible reason” WHY many are believing our “criminal justice system”, and our many government agencies, are not only broken and corrupt, they are completely rigged. ie; “Two sets of standards”! One for the rich, famous and powerful, and another for the “average person”!

    Get ready for the “Heated Summer of Protest!” It’s going to get rough out there. Just be careful and vigilant! Keep your backs to the wall!!!!!!!!

    1. One thing that I would like to point out about the Dallas Shooter. We will never hear from him what triggered his actions. The police blew him up with a bomb rater than take him alive.

      Notice also how the Dallas Shooting is unlike when the Florida shooting happened. Where the FBI took control of the narrative about the shooters actions. The Dallas police have been right out in front controlling the narrative of a dead shooter.

      Several Question I believe need to be answered about the Dallas shooter are:

      1.) The Dallas shooter had some very serious mental health issues and was a Veteran. Had he been treated within the Veterans Administration Health Care System for those or any other issues?

      2.) Had the shooter been treated with Deep Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, (Deep TMS)?


      1. The Shooter’s former attorney is speaking out about him.

        The attorney states that the shooter was involved with sexually harassing a woman in Afghanistan and that why he was returned to the states.

        “The complaining victim was an E4 specialist on the same Forward Operating Base where Johnson was working as a private first class (E3) with a specialty in carpentry and masonry during his tour between November 2013 and July 2014, Glendening said.”

        “She said she wanted him to seek mental help for behavioral health,” the lawyer said. “Where she got the mental health issues from, I don’t know. But she saw something that apparently a lot of other people didn’t see.”

        He said the alleged victim asked that Johnson have “no contact with her.”

        His attorney states “Johnson was sent back to the U.S. with the recommendation that he be dismissed from the Army with an “other than honorable” discharge, the lawyer said.”

        “I got the sense that he was generally disliked by his command, that he was the black sheep of his unit,” Glendening said. “He wasn’t overtly disrespectful but he also didn’t carry himself in a respectful way.”

        Johnson, who authorities say fatally shot five officers and wounded seven more before Dallas police killed him with a remote-controlled bomb early Friday, served in the Army Reserve for six years starting in 2009.

        His Army separation case was referred to Glendening in August 2014. Johnson later got an honorable discharge for reasons that aren’t clear to his lawyer.

        Johnson would have been screened for mental health issues, PTSD and brain injury before his discharge to see if he might have a disorder that amounts to a disability, Glendening said.

        “They have to pass that in order to be cleared for separation,” he said. “If the Army did what it’s supposed to do, he would have gone through that process.”

        Certainly seems like the shooter had been exposed to the VA Health Care System.

        Back to those two questions I believe need to be answered.

        1.) The Dallas shooter had some very serious mental health issues and was a Veteran. Had he been treated within the Veterans Administration Health Care System for those or any other issues?

        2.) Had the shooter been treated with Deep Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation, (Deep TMS)?

        Deep TMS is a new method of behavior modification that has past phase two research studies with animals and is now entering phase three studies using humans.

        There are a number of current research studies involving Deep TMS dealing with PTSD, TBIs, and a list of Abnormal Behaviors.

        One of the studies involving PTSD investigators are located at:

        UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas
        Dallas, Texas, United States, 75390-8898
        Enisa Arslanagic, MD Principal Investigator: Mustafa M. Husain, MD

        A review of the Detailed Description includes the statement as part of the study Human subjects will be subjected to repeated brief trauma exposures.

        Sources, Clinical Trails dot Gov “A Safety & Efficacy Study With Deep Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation for the Treatment of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)”

        “Dallas cop shooter Micah Johnson booted from Afghanistan amid sexual harassment accusations”, by Nancy Dillon, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS, Saturday, July 9


  5. I should mention that 8 years ago I had made a Veteran friend, a good friend, in this then-rather new metro city to me I still reside in for time being.
    He had been a Navy and Coast Guard Medic and a full Registered Nurse in his career of same era as mine, 1980–. I met him waiting for hours at our County Veteran’s Commission for assistance, as we both had our lives turned upside down by chronic health issues and more I was just embarking on my SSDI and VA Claims whereas my new friend had already been waiting for several years.
    My buddy was receiving the royal screw by the VA in that the VAMC decided to cut-off ALL his pain meds, replacing them with a salvo of antidepressants without even properly titrating him off those large doses of Morphine and Methadone and my buddy KNEW he was being seriously wronged being a healthcare professional but in retaliation for my friend being outspoken and calling bullshit on the VA, what the VA then did instead was…mandate him to be enrolled in VA’s Drug Rehab and Counseling. My buddy did not drink nor take recreational drugs, yet was mandated to be in this counseling in lieu of properly being titrated off the very meds the VA got him on….a guilty verdict without the crime.

    When he refused to be treated the way he was, the VA threatened to and eventually placed him on the Disruptive Committee’s auspices and royally screwed with him, and meanwhile, he was going through chronic withdrawals from the very drugs the VA got him on and abruptly pulled him off of.

    At this point in time, I am guessing is when he went to street drugs to relieve the chronic withdrawal symptoms, but I was not personally aware of this at that particular time. He had several years of 100% VA Disability Comp. Pay due him when he was awarded and then one day he called me stating that the VA fully approved his 100% and had received a packet in mail as well as an envelope with a check for over $80,000.

    Now, according to the VA he was labeled an addict but YET they dropped a huge check on him and it was in those following couple months that although he tried to get back into the VA, the VA just did not give a rat’s ass. During that time frame he became increasingly isolated and no longer was calling me daily, nor weekly, then a couple quiet months went by and he would no longer answer phone or knock on his apartment door.

    I was more than concerned, even through all the health crap of my own and also while I was on my own, filing both a SSDI and VA Comp. Claim. One day, around 6 years ago this month, my intuition was pulling me rather strong to call my buddy, even though knowing he was no longer answering calls. Someone else picked-up the phone and the man’s voice and demeanor sounded way off-center and I had no idea who this person was but when I asked to speak to my buddy, they guy stated…”OH, he JUST died and is laying here and I do not know what to do!!!”

    I rode down there after calling the police. My friend had taken his own life via an overdose as he was sick and tired of being screwed with by the VA. This was not my first wellness check on a fellow Veteran that resulted in finding them deceased and reason I trust my intuition so strongly.

    I had to pay and subscribe to an online locator service in order to find my deceased friend’s mother in way Northern part of State because…the VA did not. The VA did not do A LOT of things. I was pissed. I knew who his VSO was at the County Veteran’s Commission and within that crazy week I called him, as I was listed as an emergency contact. I asked WHY he was treated as he was, abruptly taken off strong assed pain meds and messed-with…then, to drop an $80,000+ back pay check to, according to the VA, an ADDICT, was entirely irresponsible and I was calling bullshit to his VSO for causing his suicide by overdose.
    I asked for answers and guess what that VSO told me as final closing words? I quote, “The VA was able to get this Veteran his Disability Pay and considered THAT as the VA’s ONLY obligation and the VA is HAPPY to have succeeded in performing that for him!!”” THAT’s it???? Really??!! Cut and dry!

    WTF? WTF? The VA did not care even though their actions and non-actions were what caused him to seek street drugs rather than deal with the abrupt cut-off of very high doses of pain meds. I firmly believe the VA killed my buddy once-removed, but more or less directly and to this day this drives me to hold the VA accountable and make the VA a better place for all Veterans. That VSO retired entirely shortly after that as well and there was nothing else I could do…this is what we are dealing with. Scary freaky VA circus clowns playing with lives and retaliating WITH medicine…a deathly chill pill.

    If my buddy was supposedly the addict the VA considered him as, then WHY would the VA drop a huge back pay check into such a Veteran’s hands without a fiduciary? Why did the VA not even bother contacting his mother about his death? Why did I have to do the VA’s work?? If they want you dead, they want you dead.

    Welcome to VA Death Care. Veteran Suicide Prevention should be a freaking priority over spending Billions on IBM Watson to do the jobs educated Dr.’s should be able to do.

    Rant Out. R.I.P. “R”

    1. Dismantling the VHA should be top priority. The agency has placed so many vets under armed guard they themselves have lost track of the numbers.

      Is this the America you pledged your allegiance to in 2nd Grade? I do not remember the part, “…and between my doctor and me stands, one man, with a gun, dispensing DBC justice for all.”

      If the truth about how many vets have honestly died as a result of the notorious Disruptive Behavior Committees throwing judgements and sentences around like confetti in a New York parade, the wait list scandal, lies or any other scandal will pale in contrast. (God Almighty did we not learn anything about the Nazis???)

      The DBC has perpetrated horrific consequences against veterans of America military service. When the grissly truth is known, it will make the average American vomit. The DBC is a blood soaked stain on America.

      …and each and every one is staffed and controlled by the AFGE, affiliated with AFL/CIO according to their letterhead they sent VHA demanding that DBC reform be halted. Yep, they did that.

      1. @redturtle984

        Do you really believe the Nazi’s lost the war?
        Can’t you see what’s happening today, IS what happened in Germany in the 1920’s and 1930’s under Hitler!

  6. @namnibor, Seymore and 91Veteran

    Something looks mighty suspicious.
    The MSM, and feds, is now saying there was only “…one shooter…” in Dallas. Their focusing in on that “Army Reservist”, who did one tour in Afghanistan. Saying he alone killed and wounded all the those people!

    1. Crazyelf- I KNOW….there were supposedly THREE OTHERS, two men and a woman that WERE APPREHENDED while seen putting camouflage gear, and such away, fleeting the scene.

      Like I said earlier, they QUICKLY painted this as an ISOLATED Army Vet and IMMEDIATELY announced he had NO affiliation with Black Lives Matter….but yet, his social media showed his allegiance to RADICAL domestic terror groups AND some Islamic Political Group I had never heard of.

      I strongly believe our POTUS and DOJ have fabricated the periphery of this story as to NOT implicate these home terror violence groups. I strongly doubt the narrative would be the same had this been average G.I. Joe Veteran or even Joe Blow U.S. Citizen.

      Yup, calling bullshit on this but like 9/11, doubt we will NEVER know because it has already been quickly made to be a tidy case, and all wrapped-up quickly for the press. Done!

      BS! That New Black Panther Party he was part of and declared allegiance to even is on record of suing social media after LA/St. Paul police shootings to call people to arms. A LOT does not add up and imagine it will remain as such. Lots of very rich political donors in Dallas, and am sure they did not want their fine city to be the next burning city, so let’s manufacture a narrative.

      1. May I qualify the above by FACT when the news had the Dallas event as it was playing-out they had Dallas Police saying repeatedly that the gunfire was TRUANGUALTED….meaning, it was coming from different strategic locations, at least three SNIPERS….the other words used along with TRIANGUALTED….then after a robot bomb is sent in…the story SUDDENLY changed to ONE SHOOTER and NOT affiliated with BLM Protesters….r-r-r-r-r-r-right.
        I have an extra Brooklyn Bridge that is on 50 acres of prime Florida Swamp Land I can sell you as well.

        Am I the only one noticing frosting being placed on a shitty cake?

    2. I’ve been following that. Many initial reports were of multiple shots coming from multiple, elevated directions…then it changes to only 1 shooter.
      There was a Report or 2 of looking for other suspects, then I read last night they have 2 or 3 more in custody, but they are very tight lipped about them.
      They should also be looking at the shooters sister since she made a Facebook post the night before the shooting that suggests she knew what was going to happen.

      1. Here’s something else. The “lone shooter” was in an office building. “Holed-up in one of the offices!”. What about the one on the top floor of a parking garage? Or, the one in front of an office building. This one, a person with a cell phone camera, was caught killing a cop!

        I’m not sure, but something “…Stinks to High Heaven”, as my mom would say!

      2. In any given traumatic episode the perceptions of nearly every single witness present can be and usually are dramatically different as to what happened. Chaos is an unfortunate but predictable reaction to deadly trauma. It takes a long time to,piece together any sort of accurate picture of what happenwd when so much conflicting human perceptions are involved.

        Whether a single man, Rambo style, or a coordinated effort, the whole idea of a guerilla attack is to create this confusion which of course provides the cover it takes for the aggressor to complete whatever mission they have in mind. I would suggest that an organizational effort is probably as well planned as it gets so it will take a while to unravel would be my hunch.

      3. See, mostly only we military vets and select pre-Homeland Security or Marksman, Special Forces would have working knowledge of exactly what that term TRIANGULATED LOCATION SNIPERS means. Surgical ambush. Something very rotten is in the woodpile, as MY grandpa would say.

        The FBI/HS and POTUS are probably counting on people NOT recalling what WE heard and SAW from our TV’s as it was happening. There is most definitely more to this and think about strategy and logistics and the urban inner city tall buildings.

        The puppet masters are counting on American’s very short attention span and more…and they are drinking the kool aid now of potentially “WAR TORNED Vets’ with mental issues…and owning weapons…this is only going to unfortunately trickle down in the piss stream to vilifying vets, and the VA meat grinder using this somehow as an excuse with hands out before congress, ‘Give us more $ to feed the black hole’, yet the VA still has not followed mandates on Veteran Suicide Prevention in application the wild, successfully.

        I am just saying the fact this ex-Army Reserve deceased homegrown terrorist was CANNED from the Army because over in Afghanistan he was harassing a Female Army Member to point she had to take drastic legal measures and restraining…it was supposed to be a “General Under Honorable Conditions Discharge” but the article I read which quoted his attorney at time said the Army screwed-up in this now dead terrorist discharge and gave him a FULL Honorable Discharge instead. He reportedly for last year and half since out of Army Reserves has played BASKETBALL casually by himself ALL DAY…this was according to the neighbors.

        This should bring to full front as well the still out of control Military Sexual Assaults…this is why “Catch & Release” simply does not work with evil.
        Rant Out. Oh….Obammy before NATO was saying some awful tall tails…like “we do not have riots in USA”, for starters, and many more hits. Spin Machine is on overdrive. This means next week, the VA Meat Grinder will be in overdrive spinning how they did not know anything about this demented vet…wait for it. Now, rant out. 🙂

      4. I can’t tell yet whether they are going to go the demented vet, lone shooter route yet. There were A LOT of cops getting shot at, and they tend not to roll over for some political agenda.
        I thought they were being tight lipped until they made sure they had all the perps.
        For those wanting to grab guns, a lone nutball is easier to push, but I wonder how easy that will be since the Black Panther/Power Political Organization was taking credit.
        If there is more than one shooter, their lone, demented vet goes out the window, and grabbing guns will be harder.
        As for this vet, I thought it was odd that he was in the Army Reserves for 6 years, but only made it to PFC, even with a tour in Afghanistan.
        There is no reason other than disciplinary actions to NOT make E-4 in 2 years, 2 1/2 at most.

  7. I’d like to know if that vet that called 5600 times in one month is still alive. That’s about 13 calls an hour. How did he get through that many times? Impossible. VA lies, Veterans die…

    1. 5600 divided by 30 days divided by 4 vets equals roughly 46 calls per day.

      Yeah, I’m calling bullshit too.

  8. Hey Elf,

    Here is what doctors are saying about the Nurses for Doctors bullshit the VA is trying to pull.

    “Medscape Readers Don’t See Eye to Eye on VA’s Independent APRN Proposal”

    Laura A. Stokowski, RN, MS, Disclosures | July 07, 2016

    Second-Rate Care?

    Among the many objections raised by Medscape readers to the VA’s proposed rule, the most frequent concerned the education and experience of NPs (or lack thereof) compared with physicians and the impact this would have on the safety and quality of care. Some physicians went further, calling the proposal “dangerous” and characterizing the VA as “criminal” for considering it.

    Many physicians took pains to emphasize that their opposition to independent practice for APRNs is entirely out of concern for our veterans and has nothing whatsoever to do with a threat to their profession or their livelihood.

    “Why are we depriving our veterans the expertise of an MD when all other citizens in our country have access to it?” asked one physician. Another asked, “Do you want the best trained people taking care of our veterans, or do you want to settle for something significantly less than that? I believe that the people who risked their lives to keep us safe and protect the freedoms we love in our country deserve the best.”

    Nursing education, said one physician, “lacks basic medical science,” and nursing students have a “generally lower intellect compared with those entering medical school.” One physician believes that “graduating APRNs have the same clinical experience as third-year medical students at the end of the first quarter. No one in their right mind thinks that those medical students have enough experience to be let loose on the world with no supervision.”

    An internist commented that “the problem is that many APRNs learn online through for-profit schools. My 4 years of undergraduate work, 4 years of medical school, and 3 years of residency are not comparable to the level of APRN education, and it’s a disservice to the veterans to claim they are equal.”

    A common view, as expressed by a dermatologist, was that “APRNs do not have enough experience to even know what they don’t know.”

    Nor was there any shortage of sarcasm; for example, a physician said, “Let’s have registered nurses get doctoral degrees, plus 3 or more years of residency before practicing. Oh, wait a minute. That’s called medical school.”

    anesthesiologist remarked, “When your knowledge and experience are limited, you can’t always visualize what your scope is. I work with midlevel providers and have corrected life-threatening decisions made by them numerous times. Some of the folks I have bailed out of bad decisions are the loudest at crying for independence.” He continued, “I sleep well at night knowing that I accomplished a rigorous course of education and training and provide a level of safety for my patients that lesser-trained providers only delude themselves into thinking they equal.”

    Physician commenters claimed that APRNs thought that they were or wanted to be the “equal” of physicians,

    A general practice physician said, “APRNs are under the impression that they are able to perform a physician’s job independently simply on imitation and emulation of usual orders and situations.”

    Another claimed that the desire for independent practice is driven by “a cognitive bias in which relatively unskilled persons suffer illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is.” And a pediatrician claimed that the “big issue here” is that APRNs “want equal status and decision making and probably the ability to veto medical decisions without earning the degree and experience and without accepting the ultimate responsibility.”

    An internist joined the debate, saying, “There is a stark difference between a team approach and diluting the system for financial considerations. We all have a place on the team and spot at the table. Independent unsupervised work as a physician should require the education, training, and experience of a physician. This is not about turf. This is about knowledge, training, and expertise.”

    Many physicians took pains to emphasize that their opposition to independent practice for APRNs is entirely out of concern for our veterans and has nothing whatsoever to do with a threat to their profession or their livelihood.

    “Why are we depriving our veterans the expertise of an MD when all other citizens in our country have access to it?” asked one physician. Another asked, “Do you want the best trained people taking care of our veterans, or do you want to settle for something significantly less than that? I believe that the people who risked their lives to keep us safe and protect the freedoms we love in our country deserve the best.”

    1. I wonder how long those comments will last.

      How long before the VA begins their hard push ignoring those comments, with the hard push by the AFGE helping them.

      …so the VA Can save money. For bonuses, IT projects, feeding Watson and other BS items.

      Getting screen shots of those comments may help for when they disappear after the thugs begin their push.

    2. Hey Seymore
      I agree with the physicians, and 91 Veteran, on this.

      We have a nurse here in Central Florida who’s completely “brain dead”! We have a few physicians who, if given a medical exam from a reputable medical university, wouldn’t be able to pass it!

      Then, one has to wonder WHY highly competent physicians don’t want employment at VA. I’ll guarantee the pay scale isn’t the primary concern!
      I believe its the bull shit they would have to put up with that’s the motivating factor! ie: they know what happens to ‘Whistleblowers’!

  9. @namnibor
    Here’s the latest on Dumbocrat Corrine Brown from “News 4 JAX”!

    “Corrine Brown pleads not guilty to 24 federal counts”

    by Jim Piggott – reporter

    Brown “…faces up to 357 years in prison.”

    I do believe she won’t be able to wiggle out of this so easily.

    1. I think you may be underestimating our DOJ Loretta Lynch’s level of corruption….but I hope you are correct crazyelf. Our current DOJ has thumbed her nose at the Supreme Court and to LAWS supposedly holding higher VA Management accountable as unconstitutional….so nothing will surprise me….

      1. namnibor, Brown is being tried here in Florida.
        It’s a little different than in corrupt Washington!

    2. Hey Elf,

      Here is another article on Brown:

      “Top Democrat on House vet affairs committee charged with fraud”

      By Jason Dearen and Curt Anderson
      Associated Press, Published: July 8, 2016

      “In addition, House of Representatives money was used to pay a “close family member” of Simmons identified as “Person C” more than $735,000 between 2001 and 2016 for a job in Brown’s office that involved little or no work, according to the indictment. Simmons allegedly benefited from some of that money.”

      1. @namnibor & Seymore

        I don’t think Brown is going to escape this one.

        Did y’all read the article I posted on her?
        What is it with “Beyonce Concert” tickets? Isn’t that who Helman went to see? Then had to plead guilty on those ‘gift’ charges!?
        I can see Brown and family wanting to see Beyonce. But after the “Superbowl Fiasco” – not so much. Y’all remember the “Black Panther’s” halftime show?!

  10. The difference between 20 or 22 per day shows there has been no change, or possibly even an increase.
    If I recall correctly, the 22 per day came from an informal study over several states rather than every state. A more formal study suggesting the new stat is 20 per day suggests the VA has done little to address the problem since the 22 per day first became widely publicized. I bet you can find news articles on the VA proclaiming they will do something to fix the problem when it was first publicized.
    Also, if the VA conducted this study, it would be instructive to see how they conducted this, and how the VA determined a veteran committed suicide as opposed to dying from other things. What did they look at to determine a death was suicide or death by other means?
    I don’t trust these bastards at all. Did they skew the numbers up by claiming a veteran suicide when it was their own negligence or malpractice that caused the death? Did they skew the numbers down because of their lack of providing care?

    A more accurate statistic might be measured by reviewing the SS Death Index, a vets medical records and what a coroner wrote on a death certificate rather than a number created by an ass covering bureaucracy.

    1. VA Roseburg was shown in the paper to have miscommunicated historical factual accounts told that misrepresented wait times 33% of the time.

      Do you believe that those same people would tell the truth if they knew for certain that vets had been sent to their fate at the hands of vindictive deadbeat doctors? No effing way! My own experiences with VHA truth telling suggests a failure rate of integrity among Phd types employed by VHA to be 73%, rounded down. My reporter friend suspects the margin of error in my data thusly might be 20% too low, however I am not counting those who later told the truth when federal investigators showed them proof they had lied under oath. AFGE contract specifies two chances at truth.

      1. I wish I knew of a friendly reporter who isn’t afraid of doing reporting.

      2. Let me tell you how. Gather your data in a neat, easy to read stack. Make sure there are only the pages and paaperwork you need to tell your story. Filter out your petty gripes. Stick to what happened and what is wrong. Write it down. Use FOIA to gather all docs about yourself. It is easy. Organize it all into chronological order and have a friend listen to it all from you in order. If it makes sense, call each newspaper one at a time and tell them what you have and tell them you want to open yourself to public scrutiny. Tell them that you will not hide your name or face and mean it.

        Then one will call you, I promise, but you have to do this for them. The call u til one calls back. Afterwards, find a small twist in the facts that the paper missed and call the tv stations and tell them you will talk on camera about it. Do not tell the tv you already talked to newspaper no matter how much you want to.

        This is exactly and precisely how to get your story into the public. I Know.

      3. You might be shocked at the amount of media I have done in the past, and one thing I learned back then is a good many of them are lazy. Those that are not are often looking for a very short soundbite.
        It is rare that you find a reporter that has followed an issue like veterans health care to be familiar with details.
        Believe me, I have contacted a number of print and television media on an issue. Several have responded and I have sent them information, but nobody has run a story on it.
        It would take a few hours of research to verify the information, and so far there has been nothing beyond initial interest.
        Typically you might get a question or two back, or an excuse about why a story might not run, etc., but in this instance, nothing.

      4. @91Veteran
        I agree!
        Where are the “real investigative reporters”. When there are MANY ‘juicy’ stories just waiting to be told?
        Seems we’ve got a bunch of “fraidy cats” out there! Probably afraid they’ll be ostracized and maybe fired for telling the truth!
        They evidently haven’t read the “1st Amendment”!

      5. Years ago when I did more media, there were those you knew you could count on if you fed them a story. Even if it didn’t run, they were still interested and wanted to know the details.
        The NY Times had a guy who would run stories depending on who it impacted. The Atlanta Journal Constitution also had a guy who covered quite a bit. USA Today has a guy named Hanchette who would not only run the articles, but he would attend Congressional hearings on veterans on his own to learn more. The LA Times would run an article once in awhile. The Army Times would also run quite a few articles by one reporter. What disgusted me with her was we provided considerable facts and documents on an issue, and she refused to write about it because she was afraid she would lose her spot at the Pentagon press briefing. Some months later she wanted an interview because the facts came out anyway in a GAO investigation, but I ignored her like she decided to ignore vets.
        The best reporter I ever met that covered vets issues was a guy from a small weekly paper in Illinois. He was a veteran himself, which helped. He had as many or more articles that would be picked up by the big news wires as many reporters writing for much bigger papers.
        The difference is was he listened to vets and did his own research and investigation.

      6. As a young man I worked on a number of newspaper staffs. Even the Marine Corps, when my MOS was retired in favor of new equipment, I was assigned to the base newspaper because of my journalism experience. That is precisely where I learned federal government spin, which in civilian term means lies.

        Like most writers I have amassed in my life a considerable written volume of work published across most disciplines you might see in print.

        As a reporter my deadlines where far more important to make than presenting a fully detailed account of the facts. With all due respect to my reporter friends, if you want a story printed, you MUST do the work. A reporter may seem relaxed, but if they do not print on time their job review and pay will suffer and nobody in the world is going to go to the mat and lose a reporting position on principle.

        So the real deal is that you must spend the months and put up with endless information refusals, and gather telephone recordings, etc. To be blunt, if you do not write the story for them with the way the info is laid out, then the information you posess must be so earth shaking that a reporter who needs a paycheck would be willing to stand toe to toe with an editor and make a pitch why the paper needs to pay wages to tell your story.

        You must sell it heart and soul, and you MUST do all the legwork. In my case once the media got involved the story created itself as I suspected it would. The misdeeds of VHA was in response to the Restraining Order I obtained against the VHA clinic manager, but the real antics began when the reporter started asking questions based on a stack of well organized docs I gave her. It was actually the response and retaliation for and to the media that really ended up the headline lol. The reporter in my case did indeed spend three years and twenty three interviews, and seven photo shoots of me, but it was because she had a stack of papers that allowed her to pitch the story from the beginning.

        In my experience at a great many jobs, the one thing that a common reporter is not, is lazy. What they are is flesh and blood human who have insanely limited time to present the most perishable product in the world (news) in hopes they get paid enough to make rent that month. Beyond ALL else, make each encounter with them memorable and never stop,smiling. They NEED something beyond normal bitching and complaining because there is just so much of that. Be unique in what you present. A wart on your ass that was not removed is not interesting in print. A nurse seen grabbing your ass is.

        I have been published in my deeds from high school, to military, to Air and Space Magazine and have worked as a press agent for world record setting aircraft. I have issued so many press releases on the AP there is no counting.

        This is how it works. If you want to publish, do all the work then wait three years through over twenty interviews, be prepared for brutal VHA retaliation and be prepared to lose VHA healthcare. This is just the way it is. If it were easy then everyone would do it.

      7. I don’t disagree with much of what you said, particularly about having the documentation and story written, but I stand by my opinion that many reporters are lazy.
        I have run in to some that no matter how thorough the information is that you are providing, they refuse to do anything with it, including reading it, because they might have to make an effort at reading it and verifying it if they want…and many are skeptical no matter what is provided, yet still refuse to make an effort to verify it.
        Given what you say about getting stories printed and deadlines, one would think if they have written an article before on a subject, they would be happy with someone bringing them a well prepared package on the same subject that would be very easy for them to get printed as a follow-up to their original story.

      8. Redturtle, after thinking about it, I need to clarify what I mean by a reporter being lazy.
        I mean a reporter that no matter what is provided to them, they refuse to make any effort at verifying, reading or even looking at an issue for any reason.
        I’ve found that once reporters actually get past their initial reaction and get interested in a subject enough to read what is provided, they work very hard at producing a good news story.

  11. Veterans lose hope give up and commit suicide every day because we live in a society that’s generally apathetic about anything concerning veterans. We complain about the way VA is doing us but it doesn’t do any good. So, things just keep going on like they’ve been going on and nothing gets changed. I went to war once and when I returned, I was taught a hard lesson for doing that. I know I’ll never go do it again. I’m too damn old anyhow!


  13. I saw an OIG report about VA here locally. It was initiated after a terminally ill vet took his own life after all local care was terminated and he was required to be escorted by VHA police. Citing the shame and insisting he had never ghreatened anyone, he took his own life rather than be escorted like a convicted criminal through the halls to treat his cancer.

    The OIG concluded that the DBC flag was just a big misunderstanding between departments and recomended that VA “…improve communications between departments…” to preclude further deaths by flagging veterans as violent. VA concurs.

    VA concurs. Vets die. DBC acts. Vets die. Doctor is stoned. Vets die. Nurse is texting. Vets die.

    VA concurs.

    Tell me seriously, do so,many vets die despite VHA, or because of it? Spock would say that logically VHA must play a key role in causing death. VA concurs.

    Spock is flagged. Good luck with Pon Far now bud…

  14. the VA analysis are traditionally skewed. Most states do not have separate reporting requirements – so any extrapolations will be suspect because of an incomplete data base.

  15. When veterans reach out for help, instead of offering help and support, VA covers their own cynical lying ass, by having the vet arrested.

    1. Simple question; how many non veterans are escorted by armed guards when they are sick and need help? Are veterans and incarcerated inmates the only ones? Is there another group I am misssing?

      Part two; What is the suicide rate of the groups accompanied by armed guards in America, versus those who have a mandatory armed escort? I guess the article already answered part two, didn’t it?

      What is the ratio of armed escorts of veteran sick, to non veteran sick Americans on American soil in an American hospital?

      What is the rationale? Why are these Americans so branded with the mark of shame? Why are the escorted Americans worth less than those not soiled with the name “Veteran”?

      ….What is America? To me it aint this. Sick men and women being escorted at the point of a gun? The shame belongs to all of us.

  16. Just confirmed that one of the Dallas terrorists was a 25 year old Army Veteran and reason I mention this is I fear the VA using this as well as Politicians to use VA Psych Sinister Care to take all Arms from Vets….wait for it, I hope to be wrong but this will be something to definitely watch…the man, Micah Johnson was the last shooter in standoff and killed by robot bomb…the mainstream media and Dallas Officials are already paving the story that he and the other snipers were not associated with BLM or any other group and acted alone…I find this incredibly hard to swallow…seems it will be easier for the media and politicians to paint the story of deranged, armed Veterans that are a threat to society rather than addressing core issues at hand…here’s the link and am out for day. My nerves are tangled today.

    This is relevant to today’s article as this was a Veteran suicide by cop…but unfortunately, a terrorist veteran in this case, and other three caught but no details yet.


    1. I wanted to be clear: No homegrown terror action or violence is condoned, Veteran or not…I only wonder what kind of, if any, help the VA could have given to this Veteran that may have turned his hate to more constructive means rather than destructive? Was he receiving VA care? Age 25 would mean just one or part of an enlistment, but in that time, who knows, that Vet may have sent back and forth several tours in Middle East…we need to know more before we are all vilified…but am NOT defending his and the other three’s actions as this is exactly how revolutionary wars start and totally tear-up a once quasi-peaceful inner country.

    2. According to the one story out of a California paper several of the shooter’s last night went to the same mosque. Even Obama and Bob aren’t ignorant enough to start veterans versus Muslims are they?

      1. @namnibor

        Two “radical black groups” have now taken credit for this carnage against the Dallas PD.
        Can’t remember their names, they have “Facebook” pages.

        It was a well planned attack, that’s the consensus among law enforcement!

      2. The one group calls itself the Black Panther Political Organization.
        I didn’t see who the other group was yet.

  17. In My Opinion;

    Have y’all noticed there was NO explanation, from VA or anyone, as to “WHY” veterans decide to “end it all!”
    There has got to be a “reason” behind this!
    Until VA can state the “WHY”, suicides will continue amoung veterans.

    Just like Obama and Hillary can’t say, ” Radical Islamic Terrorism”. Think about this, “Until one describes the enemy, one can’t defeat the enemy!”
    Just like in Viet Nam. There was the “Viet Cong”, (who wore “black PJ’s”), and the “NVA”, (or North Vietnamese Regulars)! We knew, or at least “we thought” we knew who the enemy was!
    Same as what’s going on in Afghanistan. Remember, Bin laden said; “Fight the Americans how the Vietnamese fought them!” Not knowing the enemy, IS confusing.
    Here’s something else to contemplate. When these young men and women return, they see and hear all about all the corruption going on within our government. Could this be a reason why? Especially since NO ONE is being held accountable?
    With all the MSM’s “spin” on what’s happening. Wouldn’t it be amazing to find they are partially culpable?


    This just out from:
    “Daily News”
    “House Veterans Affairs Chairman Files New Accountability Act”

    7 July 2016

    Seems Miller, and the rest of Washington’s “Lap Dogs”, are trying to get re-elected, AGAIN!
    With what we’ve seen happen over the past eight to ten days. Does anyone actually believe ANYTHING coming out of the mouths of our “elected and appointed officials”?
    If you do, I’ve got some terrific (swamp) land in Southern Florida for sale!

    1. Also, in the news this morning. From: “FCN (First Coast News)”
      “NBC: Feds Indict House Dem in relation to alleged charity scam”

      Y’all remember Corrine Brown, (D-Fl)? She’s the one, on the Veterans Committee, who always seems to be protecting VA employees over veterans!
      Besides having to turn herself in today at 1:30 pm. She’s going to learn exactly what crimes she allegedly committed.
      Let’s hope she won’t “skate like Hillary did Wednesday!”

      1. The DOJ will more than likely let Corrine Brown skate while all the politicians will be making re-election grandstanding on *gun control*…you know it’s coming and they will not actually address the chronic crime problem, it will rather attempt to strip away our Rights…those gun free zones in Chicago have only made everyone unarmed….except the thugs. So very sick of all this crap…and just as sick about the VA’s total fail on addressing Veteran Suicide.
        This news article was only the VA trying to make it appear as if they are making a dent by reduction of 2 suicides a day down from 22 to supposedly 20 a day. We know how the VA cannot do math let alone administer less than sinister psych care…THE VA and THIS USA NEEDS a massive ENEMA!

      2. Crazy Elf and Nam, I just read that article on Brown. She will not skate.
        She’s facing 22 counts including fraud, mail fraud, making false statements, wire fraud and more.
        She and others created a fake charity, solicited donations but failed to register as a non profit.
        The FBI and IRS made comments in the article I read.
        Brown’s problem is the President of the “charity” plead guilty in March and agreed to cooperate.
        Brown must of had delusions of thinking she was Hillary.

      3. Yes, it does look rather grim for Brown. She should be charged and if she is, may want to count that as one of Obama’s EOT list of pardons.

  18. I have been on feaths door many rime from PTSD AND MDD. Tried to get help at the va. I was locked up to protect me from myself they said.

    One day latter i was unconsious in a civilian ambulance being taken to a civilian hospital because of the drugs I was administered at the VA hospital with out my knoledge.

    I was returned to the va facility and had va dr tried to dress me down by trying to tell me (loudly) that I had not taken his drug properly. I stayed awake for the next 72 hours out of fear. They then released me and told me not to fall asleep on driving on the way home(80 miles).

    I pulled into a burger king and slept in my car for 2 hours. They could care less what happened to me as long as I did not do it in thier facility.

    I have not been back to phsyc care since July of last year and I will never go back. If I choose to die I do not need their help.

    These people are dangerous with a license.

  19. VETERAN LIVES MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VA…ANSWER YOUR DAMN SUICIDE HOTLINES 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 70% of the time does not remotely cut it.
    The VA would use IBM Watson to determine if they answer less and less suicide hotline calls their performance bonuses would increase. THAT is what we are dealing with. IDIOTS!

  20. With call center technology at it’s present state, why not set up folks to do this at home…I’m absolutely certain that many Vets,( retired, disabled, ) would be more than willing to take calls at home for a few hours a day to maybe help save a fellow Vet’s life…I know I would, and be glad of the income…

  21. When I watched this short segment yesterday on the VA skewing the Veteran Suicide Rate, as if it was a remarkable improvement, while the story at end stated Veteran Suicide Rate is at least 18% higher amongst Vets (all Vets, not just combat), I just knew the VA Spin Machine was on overdrive…yet doing actually NOTHING to combat Veteran Suicide…this makes me sick.
    Kind of makes one wonder if the VA decided to NOT count the couple Vets that set themselves on fire in those stats.

    On another sickening front, down in Jacksonville on Sunday a 68 year old Vet was beaten badlyby a customer in store when the Vet stated he was voting for Trump:

    “JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – A 68-year-old Vietnam veteran was beaten Sunday afternoon at a Jacksonville gas station after telling a clerk of the food store that he was going to vote for Donald Trump, according to the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office….”

    Is this all leading-up to Obamy declaring Marshall Law? Makes me sick along with all other forms of lack of respect for authority in the USA going on currently. Sick. Veterans: BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!

    1. There was an article a few days ago that Ben blogged about or it was mentioned and reported in the news about a huge number of hotline calls going to their backup call center.
      The article mentioned emails from the person in charge of the hotline discussing poor working habits of those staffing the call centers as leaving their shift early, one taking a few calls per day, etc.
      Within a day or two of those news articles, Shulkin was in the news blaming 4 vets for abusing the hotline claiming they were repeatedly calling them.
      The article claimed they called 5600 times in one month alone.

      How convenient to be able to blame veterans. The emails discussing poor work habits said nothing about abusive calls. But hey, blaming vets knowing you would never be asked for proof has worked so often for the VA. Besides, if anyone asked for proof, the VA could always hide behind the privacy excuse.

      1. What is wrong with a suicide prevention system in which four mentally ill persons can take it out operationally by (let’s face it) doing exactly what it is supposed to be designd to do – take calls. If the calls violated local, state, or federal law, then the appropriate authorities would have been called and the behavior would have ceased.

        However, if those calls to an open call center violated no law that America can throw at a veteran, then is not the call center complaining that four vets used their First Ammendment rights as they saw fit to express themselves so dang much that it crippled a federal service?

        And who the hell is ANYONE to tell an American how they can and cannot express themselves if their heart leads them there? Who am I to tell another American that they cannot speak into their telephone too often. It is just plain inconvenient? Do you see how they try to sell us the whole barn with the manure? They are a federal agency openly singling out four individuals publicly for excersizing the First Ammendment rights as THEY saw fit and not how VA sees fit. It may be right. It may be wrong. But in NO way is it VA’s call to blame the excersize of our rights on their failure.

        Unless four callers can take out a precious service sponsored and backed by the might of the US Government?

        Uh huh. I suppose that might be the deal. I gotta log now. A pig just flew by my window…

      2. Good points but I don’t believe 4, 40 or 400 vets took out their call center.
        How do they even know they were vets rather than anyone else?
        Maybe some Nigerian Prince got their phone number?

        Or maybe they truly are vets and those stellar phone operators give them the run-around BS answers we all get when calling the VA or Choice program.

        I just think blaming vets that cannot be verified is far too convenient after the media previously reported on the facts.

        By the way, I believe the previous VA call center manager was forced to retire. Did the same 4 vets cause that?

        And you are right. If the VA could find a way to hammer those 4 vets using any authority, real or imagined, why didn’t they?

  22. We don’t VA Senator songbird an executive branch and congress comprised solely of ass clowns do. President Barack HUSSEIN Osama. They pat themselves on the back as veterans die. It serves VA’s agenda for veterans to commit suicide it saves them the trouble of killing us off piecemeal themselves at the VA Medical Centers. I read the report on Candyland. It is disgusting. Makes me want to go back and make an alternative choice to serving this country which is going by handcart to hell.

  23. As for the issue of suicide,I never understood why if someone who was in the fragile mental mind to feel suicide was the answer; if I call for help and I’m already at the point of deaths door,to have a recording come up and tell me to hang up and dial another number ..Why would anyone risk losing the person at such a vulnerable moment? Why not just have an extension from the main number and reroute the call,possibly saving a life? Being told to call back is another rejection maybe that person can’t handle. Why do we make getting help more difficult than necessary??

    1. If you search out news articles on the VAs suicide hotline that I mentioned in another comment, you find first news articles that a number of calls going to the hotline went to voice mail because of poor work habits by the hotline staff. You find calls not being taken because they are lazy, or doing other things, and if the calls didn’t go to voice mail, they might go to their backup call center that is staffed by people with much less or no training.
      The militarytimes news article on this shows it was discovered due to an IG investigation, and that reports of poor performance by the hotline goes back a few years.

      Its not only a problem of getting voice mail, but a problem of piss poor performance by those hired by the VA to staff the hotline.

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