Nasal Spray Spravato

VA To Prescribe ‘Investigational’ Depression Treatment

VA failed to list many “common side effects” of risky ketamine derivative Spravato to be used in treating depression in veterans from its press release last week.

On March 5, 2019, the Food and Drug Administration approved use of Spravato (esketamine) as a nasal spray to address treatment-resistant depression. Two weeks later, VA announced it will start to offering the drug to veterans suffering from depression.

According to FDA, esketamine is the s-enantiomer of ketamine, and the use of Spravato in this way is the first FDA approval of esketamine for any use.

Should veterans be leaping for joy or very afraid?

A research study is underway until 2021 at, but that did not stop VA from including veterans in what sounds like a preliminary rollout of an otherwise experimental treatment for severe depression.

VA Is Pleased

“We’re pleased to be able to expand options for Veterans with depression who have not responded to other treatments,” said VA Secretary Robert Wilkie. “It reflects our commitment to seek new ways to provide the best health care available for our nation’s Veterans.”

RELATED: VA Wants To Change Disability Compensation System

The agency’s approval to use Spravato on veterans so soon after its FDA approval, and right on the heels of suicide treatment problems, certainly raises eyebrows.

Under a program called “Risk Evaluation and Mitigation Strategy,” VA will use a restricted distribution system to better manage the risk of serious adverse outcomes, abuse, or misuse of the drug.

RELATED: Veteran Sues Over Medical Marijuana Prohibition

VA says its health care providers will be required to monitor veterans “for serious adverse outcomes, such as sedation and difficulty with attention, judgment and thinking (dissociation), abuse and misuse, worsening of depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors.”

Dangers Only Listed On FDA’s Website

VA’s press release omitted the more detailed listing of risks and the most common side effects listed on the FDA website:

The most common side effects experienced by patients treated with Spravato in the clinical trials were disassociation, dizziness, nausea, sedation, vertigo, decreased feeling or sensitivity (hypoesthesia), anxiety, lethargy, increased blood pressure, vomiting and feeling drunk.

Patients with unstable or poorly controlled hypertension or pre-existing aneurysmal vascular disorders may be at increased risk for adverse cardiovascular or cerebrovascular effects. Spravato may impair attention, judgment, thinking, reaction speed and motor skills. Patients should not drive or operate machinery until the next day after a restful sleep. Spravato may cause fetal harm and women of reproductive potential should consider pregnancy planning and prevention; women should not breastfeed while being treated.

VA’s press release also failed to mention, “Because of the risk of sedation and dissociation, patients must be monitored by a health care provider for at least two hours after receiving their Spravato dose.”

RELATED: Veteran Gets Settlement After ‘Gutted Like Fish’

FDA On New Treatment

“There has been a long-standing need for additional effective treatments for treatment-resistant depression, a serious and life-threatening condition,” said Tiffany Farchione, M.D., acting director of the Division of Psychiatry Products in the FDA’s Center for Drug Evaluation and Research. “Controlled clinical trials that studied the safety and efficacy of this drug, along with careful review through the FDA’s drug approval process including a robust discussion with our external advisory committees, were important to our decision to approve this treatment. Because of safety concerns, the drug will only be available through a restricted distribution system and it must be administered in a certified medical office where the health care provider can monitor the patient.”

Suicide At VA

In case you’ve been totally sleeping, veterans have higher suicide rates than other groups largely attributed to depression. At least 20 veterans kill themselves each day, which is significantly higher than other population groups.

And, many of those veterans are physically located at their preferred VA medical center when killing themselves.

Yet, this new drug is known to increase the risk of suicide and other dangers making me wonder what the agency is thinking. And, after only two weeks of FDA approval for limited use, does anyone wonder why VA is so quick to adopt the drug to treat this high-risk population?

My bet is we need to follow the Benjamins… and I am not referring to me.

A solid guess here is that veterans provide a good test population since most of us receive treatment from within the same VA system where all our electronic health records can be easily aggregated by researchers.

In short, anyone feel like a guinea pig?

To be continued…

Guess Who Owns Spravato

After a little digging, I learned the nasal spray was developed by Janssen Pharmaceutical Companies, which is owned by Johnson & Johnson.

From the Janssen website, just one month ago:

Spravato (esketamine) nasal spray is an investigational product being studied by Janssen Research & Development, LLC as part of a global development program. Esketamine is a glutamate receptor modulator, thought to help restore synaptic connections in brain cells in people with major depressive disorder. It is believed to have a novel mechanism of action, meaning it is thought to work differently than currently available therapies for major depressive disorder.

Johnson & Johnson is obviously well known in the pharmaceutical and medical device industries for a variety of solid products like Band-Aid and Johnson’s Baby Shampoo.

Johnson & Johnson In The News

Yesterday, Bayer and Johnson & Johnson reached a reported $775 million settlement for failing to warn users about the blood thinner Xarelto. According to Yahoo:

The litigation involved nearly 25,000 claims pending in a multidistrict litigation in federal court, as well as nearly 2,000 pending in Pennsylvania state court. Although some of the theories that were presented in the six cases that went to trial differed slightly, all of the filed cases are based on claims that Bayer and Janssen Pharmaceuticals, a subsidiary of Johnson & Johnson, failed to adequately warn that the drug could cause dangerous bleeding episodes, stroke and death.

Bayer disputes the merits of the claim.

Janssen spokeswoman Sarah Freeman said in an emailed statement, “We believe this is the right thing to do for patients and their doctors. There is no admission of liability, and we remain steadfast that the claims raised in the litigation contradict years of scientific data and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s safety and efficacy.”

Johnson Baby Powder Litigation

The company has also been the target of substantial litigation over its baby powder product alleging the talc in the powder causes ovarian cancer. states:

Citing studies and internal company documents as far back as the 1970s, plaintiffs in talcum powder lawsuits have claimed that the use of talc-based powder products can cause ovarian cancer. While Johnson & Johnson and Imerys Talc America (J&J’s talc supplier) deny these claims, jury awards have handed the company several trial losses with high compensatory damages and even higher punitive damages.

Conclusion For Veterans

The moral of the story here should be to proceed with caution. Obviously, veterans with untreatable depression may want to contemplate a trial using the drug Spravato. But, we need to be very careful VA is properly administering any treatment.

Given the agency’s previous failures to monitor and administer opioids to veterans nationwide, let’s hope the agency has learned its lesson given the side effects of this drug sound similar immediately after taking a dose – – specifically – – feeling drunk or drowsy.

What do you think of the drug being available to veterans so quickly after its FDA approval one month after being “investigational”?

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  1. Ketamine lifts depression via a byproduct of its metabolism: Team finds rapid-acting, non-addicting agent in mouse study — ScienceDaily

    Researchers review progress of treating glutamate signalling in depression — ScienceDaily

    Critical receptor involved in response to antidepressants like ketamine — ScienceDaily

    Inflammatory disease linked to higher depression, anxiety rates

    1. More new “studies’ (beating dead horses) out about the positive use and outcomes over medical silly cybin shrooms too. Along with the years old reports about Ayahusca (sp). Most info about any of that isn’t easily found or being scrubbed too. Something good is happening when some severely injured combat troops can take a trip to the Amazon, see a Shaman, take a trip and never leave the farm then come home near totally different people that can get back to some normal living… the government/AMA/LEOs/Pharma dissing that too, while claiming how free we are? Kinda shows the open air prison camp styled living we are in today.

      Also if it’s old news and more recent studies have shown stress, particular stressors/triggers, depression, anxiety, etc., is and has been linked to other issues then why do they all seem to create, use, and enhance the root causes or sources of all that depression, high stress situations or language and on it goes. To the point of suicides and creating all of the suffering or no access for pain meds, the long waits, red-tape, bureaucracy, games we have today. Two plus two doesn’t equal four today either. It’s not all exactly rocket science. Put the lime in the coconut and drink it all up… doesn’t help either.

  2. The first three links below are from Dr Peter Breggin’s website, whom Benjamin once did an article about, look it up.

    My two cents:
    I strongly recommend anyone that’s on or been on psych meds, or any other man made meds for that matter (:m&m&m’s:) {pun intended) ~to carefully review all possible side effects for each medication on the below websites.

    If you know of other useful sites, please post them for all to use…

    If you think the VA care you got is “great”,
    ~I have One Question for you:
    Have you actually obtained and read thru your own VA Medical and or Psychiatric Records???
    ~IF Not,,, Then: STFD & STFU!!!

    Its very sad that less than 25% of all Americans read their own medical records, and even fewer attempt to have corrections made to them when serious errors are found.

    ~What’s that tell you about the state of things in modern America?

    Far too many people are quick to say “thank you for your service”, but they never bother to mention our sacrifices in doing so, in order to keep them/others out of harms way…
    But those same people sure do make a lot of time for “selfies” or posting useless crap on social media, make a big deal out of it, like there is actual value in wasting time, or worse yet, giving away your personal info to be data mined and used against you in advertising and other scams. Yet they will not take 5 minutes to email their politicians too demand that specific veterans issues be fixed…

    Please; ~do not “thank me for my service”, I’d much prefer you ask me; “what sacrifices have I made for our country” and it’s people, instead…
    Only then will the 75% of asleep at the wheel US citizens begin to “get it” about the true problems with veterans heath care, and very possibly, the future of the problems to come with modern civilian medical care…
    Btw; when attempting to have my psych med severe side effects documented by any of the many VA student doctors in training that the VA attempted to pawn off on me as being actual psych doctors, just by introducing them to me as “Dr. So&So”:
    ~I was treated like an idiot, put down for only having a high school education, ignored outright by some w no response given, laughed at by others, not believed, or egoic refusals to change anything, etc…

    How would that kind of treatment make you feel about taking any further psych meds? or, seeing other VA doctors when the trainees got rotated to other training departments every few months, leaving you to start all over at the beginning w the next trainee in line?
    In case you didn’t know, it is VA doctors that are training 70% of all Americans newly minted doctors…
    Google it for yourself!!!
    My point: if this is the level of “professionalism” that these “doctors” are being trained with, or are allowed too get away with, and make no mistake here, it doesn’t matter what side of politics your on, those behaviors are simply:
    Those behaviors are Egregious to patients well being, are Despicable, inmature, Reprehensible, Deplorable, Highly Unprofessional quote professional behaviors unquote, to say the very least…

    Do you think maybe it’s time we veterans began Red Flagging VA’s piss poor Behavior providers, on a list of some kind, to warn other vets, to give feed back on their services, and do so outside of VA systems?
    If done “something like” the now controversial phone app “Ways”, it would be something to beholden up to our “we the people’s” elected politicians, to show them what we have to deal with, just to go see a “so called” doctor.
    Until I have a way to voice my opinion of any individual VA provider, and do so with out becoming Red Flagged for filing legitimate complaints just like civilian hospitals have and use for their providers, ones that anyone can access and add their two cents, then VA will not be earning my trust back anytime soon…

    Very telling indeed: ~try asking your VA doctor’s how many patients they have ever seen before you, followed by asking them; what college degrees they hold…

    BTW: Good luck actually getting incorrect, inaccurate, misleading, etc info in your records corrected at all, especially at the VA…
    Because Both;
    ~what I found in my records; diagnosed conditions I was Not informed about nor treated for, test results not followed up on, etc
    ~and what I did Not find; were follow ups for diagnosed conditions, radiology reports showing bad stuff I didn’t get informed about, let alone in a timely manner, treated incompletely or appropriately, or had been treated for but was never resolved., Among other such surprises…
    That’s what I found in my medical records…

    ★What’s in your Med Recs?

    Moral of this story is:
    ~If you “think” you got great care at VA, but have never read your own medical records, then you have no idea what kind of care you really got, nor do you know
    if the care you received was “truely helpful” or not…

    Lastly: you might want to google your symptoms, to double check your providers work, too see if it all matches up, makes sense, because after all, they are only human, prone to making mistakes too…
    Also look up your diagnoses, because after doing all that, in my humble high school educated opinion, only then will you really know if you actually got “good care”, or not…

    Antidepressant Drugs:

    Antipsychotic Drugs & Tardive Dyskinesia:

    Electroconvulsive Therapy:

    Drug Side Effects Can Come From Inactive Ingredients : Shots Health News : NPR

    Medication info:

  3. 03/27/2019

    Dear Benjamin Krause and T,

    Glad to see that everyone is looking at this realistically, and not sweeping it on by—as the media overloads us with useless information.

    Intentional? Yes. Treasonous? Yes.

    There are many theories out there for the intent. All we Americans need to know that it is treason; after that, details are not needed.

    Karlheinz Halter wrote “Wake-up America” nearly 20 years ago, who proclaimed a victim of terrorism in the SouthBay of Los Angeles 100 break-ins at three (3) of retail stores [Torrance Metro Area] and two (2) major warehouse thefts in Carson. Mayor Mitoma was investigating the issues in1989, his house burnt down to the ground with his Jaguar in his garage as the LA Sheriffs watched, the Fire Department protested that they never received a call from the police. Halter starved to near death in a Hospital in Torrance in 2015/penniless and was transferred out to die days later, after Rep. Janice Hahn was notified by Karg to intervene on behalf of Halter.

    Working every day with a Marine who thinks nothing is wrong with VA Hospitals, “it is just bad management.”
    “Brandon Coleman, a Marine Corps veteran and former addiction therapist; Coleman went public in 2015 with allegations about flawed suicide-prevention efforts and other alleged mismanagement at the Phoenix VA Medical Center.” Arizona Republic.
    It shooked him up when I told him that I had shooked hands with the VA Secretary Bob McDonald in the Basement of the Karl Hayden VA Hospital in Phoenix, AZ and handed him several books/5,000 pages on the scandal and asked about the “40 homicides” at the Hospital in front of Dan Caldwell/CVA/Koch Brothers and many other “spineless people” according to a veteran watching the whole ordeal.

    Then I told the Marine that yes the Hospital was in bad shape before and after “the storm caused damage in the Intensive Care Unit, the Emergency Department, inpatient wards and other areas” [August 2015, the hospital suffered another setback when officials detected legionella bacteria were identified in several faucets in the cardiac catheterization lab and interventional radiology areas and forcing the evacuation of a building that houses substance abuse-programs]. This lead to the procurement of the “Xenex LightStrike™ Germ-Zapping Robots™ to destroy deadly bacteria lurking on hospital surfaces that can cause hospital-acquired infections (HAI)” Phoenix Veterans Affairs (VA) Health Care System is the first hospital in Arizona to deploy these six (6) robots in 2017.

    Benjamin Krause reported 07/18/2017, “GAO director of healthcare Randall Williamson told Congress the 2013 clinical productivity metrics created by VA are seriously flawed. Williams recommended VA “expand its existing productivity metrics to track the productivity of all providers of care to veterans” to include contractors and advanced practice providers.” As “the 2014 Wait List VA Employee Perpetrated Health Care Fraud” wiped out thousands of families” [overloaded workloads and ER problems/medical malpractice/destruction of patient records] and then the second consecutive punch again by the VA, called the VA Caregiver Program became a Scandal/embarrassment causing harm to Tens of Thousands Veterans and their families. Third Punch came with the misuse of Opioids all over the Country [Example: “Candyland” Tomah, Wisconsin].

    Is Spravato the Fourth Punch to the gut?

    How can we trust the VA?

    We still have no information on William Nutter, Jr. and Senator/Presidential Candidate Elisabeth Warren still is not resolving this three year issue!

    Remember Phoenix’s VA has a one star rating after Five Years of a national embarrassment—and Phoenix Hacienda Health Care Center sets a prime example of what is to come.


    Don Karg

  4. Oldmarine. We doing the virtual style of the Vulcan Mind Meld or what. That was the first thing that popped into my brain. Besides remembering the Steve freak at the VA trying to tell us there was nothing used for pain in ancient times or before Laudanum. Damn idiot.

    Big Jim a vet from the New York area tried telling his story on vet sites and finally had to go to “White Nationalist” sites to try to get his story out about the links to his upcoming death found to be linked to Aspartame poisoning. Due to the censoring back then about certain things. And info about it originally being about a new rat poison enhanced/found to be a sweetener. One of those accidental discoveries. He had the videos and info about him and the family out with signs protesting that junk and the dangers associated with it and what he was going through. Severe organ failures, neurological disorders, etc. The dude went from a monster of a man to nothing and showed cops messing with him while out with his signs dissing the FDA, the VA, Big Bro, phony studies, etc. Having orders to arrest him if need be, even in his condition, and run him off out of public sight. Oh, and the VA ignored his reports and the civilian MD, lab, making the connections refused further involvements or public statements… it all went silent. Jim reported it was due to all the attacks or threats from Big B and Pig Pharma/stockholders, etc. He was out there even in a wheelchair with Oxygen, small framed by then, trying to get attention while those like “Sixty Minutes” Mike Wallace types and others didn’t seem to care about such reality or FDA lies, of course. Or course not, MSM are the propagandist and liars too in bed with all the evil freaks.

    It’s common knowledge and much broadcasted about how scientist or professionals can be paid off to twist things in courts, threatened to lie about issues, write up phony reports, fabricate to get their grants, play experts in things they are not or educated in at all. If people want to drink all the Kool-Aid so be it. Some out here don’t drink city water. lol

    From a ninth grade drop out, went military, GED circa mid 1980s. lol IQ 120 …. a dummy.

    1. I’v got a GED to T, But I always give my lowest Rank…LOL Got it done in 2 1/2 days, Beats 2 years of brainwashing…

  5. ” I recommend educating yourself on the FDA’s drug-approval process.”

    With a statement like that, Your the real Dumbass…..Take it from a 10th grade dropout It’s all about the Benjamins

    The approval of the artificial sweetener aspartame (E951) was the most contested in FDA history. The approval was not based on any scientific grounds but was granted due to political and financial pressure.

    Look this one up on utube
    Aspartame, Brain Cancer & the FDA Approval Process (Dangers Side Effects Diet Coke Zero Sucralose)
    It’s 10 min long and it was on 60 min.

    The tests that Searle used to determine the safety of aspartame were severely flawed. Searle used unscientific lab practices, falsified data and withheld crucial information during the FDA approval process…

    And that is only one item…….You must be Mk’s Brother

  6. So….OK, We The People are once again asking Us, those who serve (or Served, in this case), to step out front for our fellow citizens. And, to be accurate, for our fellow Veterans.

    But it would sure be a lot easier to do that stepping if it felt like We The People actually gave a flying shit about Us. And if the VA were actually oriented even “kinda” towards service to veterans.

    This is being offered for Pain Management, too, by the way. Becuse the VA has some how managed to convince itself that drugs like Zoloft etc… are useful for Pain Management. Or what they are hoping is that by taking more Zoloft, when the Pain becomes unendurable during “reduction treatment” a Veteran in egregious pain from combat wounds won’t want to eat their pistol.

    And how come we can have Vitamin K but not Mary Jane? WTF is that about? Oh, and if this stuff is subject to abuse and habituation, why is it OK when Pain Medications are not?


  7. Many of the negative comments regarding this new treatment are from those who do NOT suffer from treatment-resistant depression (TRD), and prior to this article, are likely to have never heard of TRD. For the nay-sayers and pessimists, you’re right about one thing. There are other treatments available, for example, electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), and a laundry list of antidepressant medications, or combinations of medications, that are 99% ineffective. Furthermore, if you think the potential side-effects of esketamine are too scary, then you haven’t looked at the potential side-effects of previously approved and widely prescribed medications. Four years ago, after reading about research on ketamine’s potential antidepressant qualities, I asked my physician if he thought this medication would ever be available in the VA system. His answer: Never, because ketamine is a street drug, and the VA would never seriously consider or approve a street drug for medical use. My, my ,my……how things have changed, for the better, in the VA healthcare system!

  8. The VA medical staff is made up mostly of clerks. That’s all I am able to talk to anymore. Where are they hiding this medical personnel? AFGE employees don’t know, nor do they follow laws that supposedly dictate how VHA runs. Another clusterfuck in the making. This story is depressing, and ketamine can’t be that expensive IF people are cutting heroin with it. Didn’t Bayer create heroin? Can’t believe any corporations could just walk away from that kind of money….

    1. Heroin is an old drug. You mix the opium poppy with Vinegar and boil (reduce ) it down to a paste, dry it out and you’ve got a crude form of heroin. It gives off acetic-hydride ( a by-product) which is detectable in the air where it is being made. Will also make you sick as all get out if you inhale it. Some people call it “Mexican Brown”.

  9. Wanna bet the leeches working at the VA want better distribution and control so they can be front page here this time next year when it’s found the assholes were replacing drug with unsterile VA water fountain water, keeping experimental drugs for themselves, while VA has a chance at developing a new drug to treat that new form of unidentifiable nasal infection from the bacteria working at the VA….wait for it.

    Fuck yes, be afraid, very afraid.

  10. I sick of tired as Vietnam Veteran three quarters of Veteran Medical Centers doesn’t have a PTSD MEETINGS

  11. Due to comments being closed, I am forced to post here, off topic:

    @spook on the spoon;

    Thank you for your response to my request for help locate missing documents on behalf of my friend.
    I am grateful for the assistance and am certain he is too. I have passed on the info, all tho I will not be able to help him overly much, I do know he is capable, has internet access i can’t afford, and the ability to use the info provided to hopefully locate his missing records.
    Thank you
    ~K-Lar (:)

  12. What’s the difference between spravato and generic compounded ketamine nasal spray besides the cost?

    from a medical provider for the answer:

    Regular ketamine is the full molecule made up of a left and a right mirror image. The right half is called arketamine and the left is called esketamine. Esketamine is what is in the new spravato nasal spray. In testing, it has been shown less effective than full molecule ketamine however full molecule ketamine is generic and cannot be patented so drug companies will not do research to get FDA approval for either depression or pain treatment. Provider can prescribe ketamine off label as infusion, nasal spray, oral or troches. Infusions are thought to be the most effective and bioavailable form.

  13. Out of their minds! Shit is like LSD and they will push, had to outside ER and they used. It’s a sedative, they gave me since taking opioids thought safer. Stopped breathing a few times during procedure and had like a bad acid trip, told me to put on my allergic list. They have no idea how to treat with medication, they just keep trying different medications until you say helped. Truth is medication for depression doesn’t work on most and I had bad experiences. No one should be allowed to change the chemical balance in your brain, especially rolling the dice hoping to find one that works. The do help some, but not enough to risk. Fuck Wilkie

  14. IV Ketamine is way cheaper or intra-nasal ketamine even if the “same paramators” such as only at the VA n stay for 2-hours afterwards is way way cheaper then this Esketamine knock off! Esketamine is only half the molecule and hence only half the effectiveness! The following VAs do ketamine for mental health at the following VAs: Connecticut VAMC ; West LA ; San Fransisco ; Murfreesboro, Tn VAMC ; Minneapolis VAMC ; the following VAs do ketamine at their hospitals mainly for pain: San Antonio VAMC ; Gainsville VAMC ; Baltimore VAMC ; Philadelphia VAMC ; Pittsburgh VAMC. The VA has sent veterans out in town Care in the Community for chronic pain for ketamine for veterans living in the following areas: Atlanta, Ga. ; Palo Alto, Ca. ; Rapid City, SD ; Phoenix, Az ; Minneapolis, MN I do know a veteran from a Fl VA think Miami was sent to Walter Reed NNMC for ketamine infusions in Nov 2017 under the DoD/VA Sharing Agreement.

    1. Denver sends to Care too. It’s a bad move, Care is a non profit and they usually run tight with money especially paying Administration costs, so when hear getting someone they start their lip smacking. They love chronic pain since now so many disagree with opioids and want of, so Care will put into inpatient rehab charging a fortune While since not treated at the VA the opioid medication doesn’t show on their reports showing the prescription rate lower to show new opioids policies work. They also send to Care for a second opinion agreeing with the hospital before they see you. The VA has a nice trick for depression and TBI diagnosing you with a personality disorder which is the only thing the VA doesn’t pay compensation for since genetic. So will be happy when getting out only to find it’s the VA with a new name. Do you know a good treatment for depression? It is getting away from unneeded stress and anxiety and the hospital and compensation is nothing but. How so many people don’t care is insane.

  15. Thank G-d they finally got this medication – it will save a lot of lives in a short period of time. The VA in Cincinnati is using something similar (a little difference in the molecular formula but similar) and active duty personnel are able to get the same medication in San Antonio. For more on this, you can call Jannsen’s R & D department (and get the clinical trials they conducted).

  16. From my understanding, esketamine is just a new drug that is supposed to mimic the effects of ketamine, which has been used in medical practice for decades. It’s use for depression is still experimental, but the people I know who have had ketamine treatments for depression swear by it and say it saved their life after decades of being suicidal and trying every anti depression drug out there. we know the effects of ketamine and it’s much cheaper, so why not just allow veterans to be treated with ketamine instead of this new esketamine drug? some VAs already do ketamine treatments for chronic pain patients, and the VA sent me to University of Virginia to have ketamine infusions for chronic pain, and I believe some VAs even provide ketamine treatments for depression.

    1. I mentioned ketamine to the VA before, about two years ago, they laughed at me, tried to make it about something it wasn’t. Fast-acting relieve is critical

  17. VA News Release

    New study finds rising VA employee engagement key to increased success at nearly 150 medical centers
    03/26/2019 12:04 PM EDT

    WASHINGTON – The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs’ (VA) received high marks from an independent March 25 study showing a significant relationship between employee engagement and work performance by VA medical center staff.

    I wonder who gave them HIGH marks Must have been J.D. Power and Associates…LOL….I wonder who believes V.A. Propaganda

  18. A shot or two of “Kentucky windage” and Hotel California on vinyl. It’s all good……..


  19. They need to stop treating us as lab rats. The VA needs to be more aggressive about our physical illnesses first. Only after the physical problems are being properly addressed as the main priority, can we look at mental health. It is beyond unfair that the VA focuses on mental health when we are literally fighting for our lives physically and we only get gaslighted, shamed, dismissed as those problems being all in our heads and that we should be able to have a handle on that. How can a person, who can’t tolerate minimal activity due to severe illnesses, ignore that and only concentrate on their mental health? They can’t. We supposedly have world class healthcare diagnostics capability, but the VA refuses to use it because they don’t want be responsible for all of the diagnoses that they have steadfastly ignored for the last century. We don’t even have adequate numbers of medical professionals to meet the manpower requirements necessary.

    1. Megan, that is exactly what they want and part of their studies including Urban Warfare by intentional suffering, hard and allowed soft kills. It’s … all… intentional. That little tid-bit was even mentioned on TV news when we got involved more in Mid-East wars, religious bowing, and politics. And all of our enemies and the cheerleaders out there just love the ‘gas-lighting,’ tactics and games. To the claims that Americans are to soft, lazy and stupid to become highly trained health care “practitioners.” “We need much more die-versity.” “Open borders for excellence.” (barfed) So the Gov and others puke the needs for more visa use to bring foreigners in that don’t give a hoot about us or our rights, quality of life and laws. And may God help those who can get a degree while the trudge through modern day colleges or med college’s indoctrinations, focuses on activism, following the PC herds, to protecting their own affiliations or sorority sisters.. etc., instead of creating ethical health care people on all levels.

      Warhorse, Wish I could do some of that or Granny’s moonshine remedy for all ills. My liver doesn’t like stuff. lol

      OldMarine. Ha ha. Hollywood, media, college cliques, et all ass-hats give awards and back-pats for their own. I mean come-on. Who else is going to give any MSM clowns, local talking head awards for honest and ethical reporting… and on that goes on full circle. Knowing full well they lie and propagandize knowing the bah bah sheep crowd will suck it all up with glee. Or some VA high awards knowing full well they are evil as hell, protecting the incompetent and corrupt… and above the law for their brands of games and retaliation. In my book they all suck, all corrupt including the silent ones. The general public doesn’t deserve any high marks or awards ether just like all those caring (sic) VSOs and others out yonder. Another funny one for the day. My gut can’t take all the humor.

      Jane Dakota. That’s part of the problem. Not all VAs are the same. My group’s or I never heard anything about alternatives to their usual head-med anti-depressants to the wanting to use anti-psychotics for pain and migraines. Then to all the secretive treatments for some, others toyed with. Ketamine, never offered never discussed. When brought up locally by one person in a group session years back the potential use of it was dismissed and shot down. Kinda like discussing their DU issues. More pick and choose, testing of the rats. Same thing over Kratom for pain which our fascist made illegal for use and purchase… like over-night. I didn’t get the chance to try it. Oh and Jane… you get ten points for the day bringing up one of the many other issues less discussed of the corrupt land, Pig Pharma and all those other clown’s….. ‘Patents.” Akin to some ‘copyright issues.’ All about the $$$, controls, ownership, etc.

  20. Funny stuff. Needed a good laugh this morning.

    Lab rats? We are totally owned lab rats from birth, think not? Then with the kicker called “The VA.” The medical community, FDA, VA, AMA etc., are not our friends or have our best interest at heart. Who all else comes out in many ways claiming.. ‘hello we are from the (fill in the blank) (VA, Gubbermint, politician) and here to help.” “What do you need.” Oh we are also here to protect your from yourself even if it means we must destroy you. Per some VA staffers… “to protect us from ourselves.” To now care givers chant ‘we must obey the politicians, LEOs, Pharm, the censors, evil ones, propagandist to the med boards or we lose our license.’ Beats hell outta just mere ‘lions, and tigers and bears oh my’ huh?

    Where does the lying VA and all those many scientist, Phds, MDs, FDA, CDC, colleges (using students too) get their material for med journals, stats, case studies, and country club chat or for grants, etc.

    Local news coming out with college studies reporting the use of weed and it’s many forms causes psychotic breaks, dementia from day one use, and violence. Most recent came out of Florida. Oh my. Reefer Madness in 2019! Daily they have all those propagandizing studies for the sheep to drink, expected to believe or hang on every word. Or else.

    Alexander Shulgin and others many moons ago had all kinds of compounds and the MDMA uses… that worked. Internationally used by those pros back-when because it worked in it’s many formulas and uses. Fantastic results for those with “shell shock” and a multitude of disorders. Illegal today. Don’t dare think of such things. Big Gov and Pharma raced in to confiscate all information of it and imprison the evil scientist and users. Ahh we got the nice police state of fascist we live in today. If it helps, works, make it illegal or cut the patients off of it. Used to be documentaries about all this back in the day of more freedom and less censoring. Like today’s pain meds cut off leaving many to suffer with only one way out of it. Big G and pharma, to Congress laughing their butts off over it.

    Years back the Army doctors were warning about the use of “Prozac,” and it’s generic name, for use in PTSD and the big D. I took more people to try to be EDed (sp) and to the hospital to get sewn up after the crap causing people to do self harm or commit suicide than you can shake a stick at… but it was a good thing to the FDA like Aspartame related deaths, to vacks n a tions (due to censoring by Googlets) are recently and covered-up. All that should be searchable. The simple fix was to cease all that medication and kickers after their severe withdrawals… and no boozing. Oh but it made some happy and many females on commercials just so happy happy. And I was laughed at by all those “professionals” and colluge kiddies trying to get them to read such reports. Oh no gotta follow the herd and the corrupt to fit in, get jobs. ‘We are trained not to get emotionally involved in patient’s needs and not care so much.’ People suffer and die every day so no big deal. To, we have it made compared to some third world country or desert dwellers in the Sahara. lol

    People need to wake up, grow-up, and get real. May be Spravato will be a kicker for the dumb down effects of fluoride or any other pick of chems we bathe in today. Or used on top of all those Ambilify like helpers for good mental health. LOL

  21. Drug companies have a huge lobbying effort. And it wins dollars for them while often shortening life for patients.

  22. Esketamine is being described as the single most important advance in the treatment of depression in over 50 years, I believe meaning a major shift from serotonin producing antidepressants to NMDA receptor antagonists for depression. Baby steps, (just joken) , but still a step in the right direction. It’s hard to find a way out of that rabbit hole, Research and development is shifting to better forms of antidepressant’s. It would be interesting to know how VA plans to administer this Esketamine, with some Allman Brothers i hope, but knowing the vA it would probably be non-stop reruns of the chariot race in Ben Hur. Psilocin holds more promise. I couldn’t do it, take a drug like that around a VA facility, I get the heebie-jeebies every time i see the flickering half lit V in the VA sign at the VAMC.

  23. UH UH! No siree. My druggy filled days are whaaaaay behind me. Some of us didn’t survive the 70’s. My favs were psilocybin and acid. I probably qualify for this crap, but no thanks. I don’t care for drooling all over myself.

  24. “VA says its health care providers will be required to monitor veterans “for serious adverse outcomes, such as sedation and difficulty with attention, judgment and thinking (dissociation), abuse and misuse, worsening of depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors.”


    1. How long has the VA been using Veterans as guinea pigs and continue to get away from being held accountable, until the VA is in front of Congress and answer questions why it’s always wants to cut corners in using drugs are suppose to help Veterans with their symptoms are actually killing them, all Veteran organizations should be in uproar in getting to the bottom of this and find the correct solutions not snake out remedies

      1. Not just veteran lab rats, but soldier lab rats. Nukes. LSD. Anthrax vax. But c’mon guys, look on the bright side. Ummm.. aaahhh.

      2. NEWSFLASH! Millions of people, including veterans, volunteer to participate in clinical trials (testing) of new medications. Using your words, all new and investigatory medications DEPEND on clinical trials using volunteer “guinea pigs” and “lab rats.” In fact, every medication YOU are currently taking used guinea pigs, on a VOLUNTARY basis, in the FDA drug-approval process. So, your statement that the VA is currently complicit in using and/or forcing veterans to be guinea pigs is not only false, it is preposterous. I recommend educating yourself on the FDA’s drug-approval process.

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