SLAPP Suit CALIBRE Veterans Rights Activist

Executive Order Cuts 75 Percent Of Union Activities During Work Hours

Executive Order 13837 “Ensuring Transparency, Accountability and Efficiency in Taxpayer-Funded Union Time Use” is apparently intended to “ensure that taxpayer-funded union time is used efficiently and authorized in amounts that are reasonable, necessary, and in the public interest.”  

What does that mean for veterans and our relationship with the VA? The VA is unionized, and this Executive Order (EO) may affect how its union operates. VA’s acting secretary, Peter O’Rourke, had this to say about it.

“This executive order ensures the proper stewardship of taxpayer dollars. The order offers reasonable standards for union representatives and makes clear that they should spend the majority of their duty hours on federal government work.” 

To AFGE, this likely sounds more like an attempt to rob what few emaciated unions this country has left of its last vestiges of autonomy. But under what circumstances would it be “unclear” that a person should spend the majority of their government work time working as a mini-lawyer for a different organization?

In practice, this executive order severely restricts member solicitation, lobbying activities, elections of union officials and the collection of dues. At what point do you just throw in the towel on the whole “union” concept for federal employees who were hired to work normal jobs, not function as mini-lawyers?

Of course, VA employees are only employed because of our sacrifice and their vested interest in keeping us healthy. It is important to prioritize this.

This executive order has the greatest impact on about 1,700 unionized VA workers out of the overall 300,000… the ones who are supposed to be in charge of running their union but also taking up a slot for the employment type as regular VA employees. 

Nathan Maenle, principal deputy assistant secretary for VA’s Office of Human Resources and Administration, offered an example of how VA is implementing this order.

“VA employees who previously spent 100 percent of their official work hours on union issues can devote no more than 25 percent of that time to the union under the new executive order,” Maenle said. “Union leaders must also request and receive approval of their use of taxpayer-funded union time to allow the VA to monitor the use of this time to ensure that it’s only used for authorized purposes.” 

The takeaway? No more free rides for the union.


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  1. Good News EveryBody!!!
    Another of one of Them/There Brighter Notes.

    “Big Labor Gives Back Thousands In Forced Fees To Avoid Court Battle”
    Tim Pearce | Daily Caller News Foundation | 10:08 PM 07/31/2018

    “One of the largest public-sector unions in the U.S. is paying back nearly $3,000 in forced union fees to an Oregon public employee, the first such case after the Supreme Court ruled forced fees unconstitutional.

    The Service Employees International Union (SEIU) settled with Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife employee Deborah Nearman after she sued the union in April for requiring dues as a condition of employment by the state. Nearman charged that the mandatory dues violated her first amendment rights by compelling her to support speech she did not agree with, according to the National Right to Work Foundation.

    A Supreme Court ruling in AFSCME v. Janus, issued two months after Nearman’s suit, found that such “agency fees” payed by workers to unions to stay employed were unconstitutional.”

    ““Nearman’s refund represents the first of what should ultimately be hundreds of millions of dollars or even more returned to public employees for union fees seized from them in violation of the First Amendment,” National Right to Work Foundation President Mark Mix said in a statement.

    Nearman’s husband successfully ran for the Oregon State Legislature in 2016. The SEIU, which Nearman was paying mandatory dues to at the time, spent roughly $53,000 in an attack campaign against Nearman’s husband.

    “SEIU 503 agrees that it will neither seek to collect nor accept any future dues or fees deducted from the Plaintiff’s wages unless she affirmatively chooses to become a member of SEIU 503 and authorize deductions,” the settlement says, according to The Washington Free Beacon.

    Class-action lawsuits to recoup agency fees for workers forced to pay them without consent have been filed against at least eight unions nationwide.”

    Full Article At: “”

    1. Seymore, thanks for the post I’d have missed it other-wise.

      A huge part of my recent problems, attacks, or issues is because of politics and the union connections. And the corporate types lying dogs getting fleas too or the quid pro quo too. Then to think Trumka of the AFL/CIO when one of his last times publically speaking before they shut him up wanted to unionize the globe with unions, specifically illegals too, with the SEIU. Indiana government that is supposed to be red has already legalized DACA phonies to get educated and move on to employment in government agencies before vets. SEIU and others love that. Had their flyers posted with management’s blessings, I guess, must have been at the VA.

      Mark Mix, National Right to Work Foundation and others are trying hard to correct the mafia styled unions and Democrats locally. They face a huge war there and may be become violent since Dems like Maxine Waters, SJWs, Antifa, illegals, those poor refugees/immigrants, Caths, churches, NAACP, college cliques, and more locally want full-on confrontation and physical harm come to those, like me, that simply disagree with their politics to left wing fascist censoring and unionization for all. It’s group think and assimilate to them or nothing, no middle ground allowed. Out-going very long time office held lefty office holders like Clyde Kersey (D) and others here have sworn to fight for unions/socialist/communist after leaving office and seeing to it my area remains the “Strong-hold in Indiana for socialist, unions, and the Eugene V. Debbs society (their god next to Marx/Satan).” But actually Indiana is blue and a “strong-hold” for many things the far far left and foreigners demand, want, and got/get. They refuse to mention they bow to the likes of Saul Alinsky to Bill Ayers and other communist too. All these work visas in many form don’t help matters either. In fact years back when the net was more open the CPOTUS, Communist Party, used to openly boast about being in love and full support of unions, Indiana government, lefty colleges, lefty societies like the above, and new age Democrats/Neocons. That alone should speak volumes. Why too this old past union officer swore to never work in a deceitful, corrupt, two-faced, self-serving, mob mentality, violent, bait and switch, anti-American union shop again, and didn’t. Like it or not that is reality for many. Some unions left the AFL/CIO years back because of the corruption, strayed away from American Made, and many wrong doings. Unions and others went … mob and stayed…. mafia.

  2. @js
    Unfortunately, I agree with much of your argument against unionization. The problem of union corruption and mismanagement is caused by one simple fact: union executives were NEVER trained on how to be an executive. In the corporate world, chances are, all management from first line supervisors to executive officers were schooled and trained to operate in that capacity. With unions, the most popular guy is is chosen (elected) to lead and in turn stewards are chosen by how ‘helpful’ they are to the rank and file. This system is a breeding ground for malfeasance. Union leaders need to be educated to operate as managers and executives.

    However, those arguments would never persuade me to cross any unions picket line. Why? Because the greater good is served by the simple fact that a string brotherhood of workers are the only check on the unbridled power of large corporate or governmental entity.

  3. It should mean that agencies need to be more vigilant and meet the reasonable accommodations measures that they have ignored where service connected Veterans are concerned. This should be the Office of Accountabilities number one role where this is concerned.

  4. Seymore,
    I just realized something. Have you noticed no other union is being targeted.
    Only the AFGE is being talked about by “little Cox”!

    1. I’d be running my suckhole all over the place on this one. But I got shit to prepare for so… 😀 😀 😀

      1. Well I’m sure when time avail, there will be another topic for ya to bang on and grinder on in. You know, it’s the VA something bound to come up.

  5. On a Brighter Note:

    AFGE Recounts Evictions, ‘Union Busting’ at Federal Agencies
    By Erich Wagner, Federal Executive, July 12, 2018

    “Union leaders representing employees at the Social Security Administration, the Veterans Affairs Department and the Bureau of Prisons said management is moving to evict unions from office space, preventing them from taking documents off-site and blocking them from using official time or unpaid leave to represent workers.

    “Union officials at the Social Security Administration are being stripped of access to vital tools that help us represent working people as we are required to do by law, including telephones, computers, Internet access, and even bulletin boards,” Cox said. “And as of yesterday, management has removed union access to all meeting rooms on agency property.””

    Full Article at: “”

    1. What a cruel inhuman joke the AFGE is.

      While Veterans are suffering and dying the AFGE is lobbying against Veterans receiving proper health care and lobbying to keep Veterans in a legal system that prevents Veterans from receiving proper legal aid. All while Veterans taxes are being used to pay for their lobbying efforts, legal assistance, office space, computers and software to fight against us.

      All while Veterans are seriously suffering and dying due to their fight against Veterans.

      1. Here is another AFGE press Release that is totally sickening.

        It claims:

        “While the right-wing majority on the Supreme Court awarded two major wins in anti-union, anti-worker cases this spring — the reactionary Epic Systems and Janus decisions — the bullying billionaire boss in the Oval Office was also busy, issuing union-busting executive orders on May 25 and July 9. These unpublicized orders are designed to strip 700,000 federal workers, particularly women and people of color, of their rights on the job.

        A crime of such magnitude against working people has to be exposed and fought with a mighty fist.

        The Trump administration’s new rules are designed to dramatically decrease the threshold needed to fire unionized federal workers. The evidence needed to take disciplinary action against employees has been reduced from over 120 days to 30 days. J. David Cox, president of the American Federation of Government Employees, which represents the workers, told Payday Report: “I have no doubt that the policies and actions of this administration disproportionality impact women and minorities.”

        The sickening bullshit being put out by Cox and the AFGE can be found at:

        Oh the “disproportionality” is (sic) as published by a union employee. It should be “disproportionately” somebody at the union kind of Cox-ed things up there.

      2. Not only playing the race card but also the sexist card. What otter thrash.

      3. Oh and one more point I truly think is funny. The size of the groups of so called protesters is getting smaller since they can no longer claim official time to protest. It also seems that the protested are now shortened to 15 minutes due to everyone is on their lunch hour.

        Also pretty odd is how the pic the union supplied of the protesters for the article has all of the protesters wearing heavy winter coats at the end of July going into August.

      4. Seymore,
        Looks like “David [Little] Cox” has his tights up in a wad!

        I wonder if Cox is “Just Passing Through”! Or, maybe someone who works for Cox?!
        They “sound” identical in phrasing sentences!
        Both have a seriously distorted view of how a union is supposed to be run.

        When I worked for the (government subsidized) B&O – C&O rail road, back in the early to mid 1970’s, our “union steward” (AFL-CIO) wasn’t allowed to conduct union business during work hours! I learned about this when there was a dispute over who would move up the ladder to a “A Rail Machine” (Spiker)! Which paid a lot more than a “B Machine” (Tamper)!
        (The pay on the “Spiker” was about $6 to $6.50 MORE per hour!)

        Oh, and “Just Passing Through” using “Jane” to get his point across is rediculous, to say the least.
        If “Jane” had “tattled on management over waste, fraud and abuse”. She’d have either been fired, her life would have been hell or she would have quit!
        “Just Passing Through” is a complete idiot! That’s why I believe he is actually “David Little Cox” in disguise!

      5. Need the VA to be removed from the protective umbrella of Tort Law. If so, a flood of suits against VA will occur. And that is a good thing.

  6. Gauging audience participation from past posts related to the AFGE it was easy to predict potential comments from the majority of respondents regarding the current post. I’ve learned that some people who frequently reply to union posts on this forum mistakenly believe that all employees of the VA are responsible for personal frustrations concerning the organization, largely ignoring the notion that there are VA employees who actually perform quality work in an effort to support our nation’s veterans. As I once quoted the fictitious character Alfred Pennyworth in another post, this estimation again seems relevant. “Because some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”

    Given the frequent calls for violence, misdirected anger, anecdotally-fueled pseudo-evidence regarding personal transgressions, and overt hostility towards VA employees by a number of respondents, I’ve concluded that some—not all—commenters want nothing less than to watch the VA burn. There’s no reasoning with such people, because they want utter destruction. They’re angry and want vengeance. It matters not that relevant information countering their subjective experiences may be shared in the comment section, because their collectivist attack strategy is employed towards those of us who challenge their delicate positions.

    They use passé terms like “snowflake” and “union cheerleader,” cite biased media articles without thinking critically enough to challenge their reinforced perspectives, conduct mob-style rejoinders, and employ the use of logical fallacies (i.e., ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, no true Scotsman suggestions, etc.). These tactics are mostly predictable, lazy, and serve to do nothing more than form an echo chamber of support without providing anything of sustenance concerning valid solutions, helpful proposals, and rational arguments regarding union activity within the VA. And yes, I predict that simply by calling a spade a spade I’m opening myself up to an onslaught of mindless droning from others.

    All the same, it is worth stating that not all AFGE members are responsible for trespasses against you. Some of us served veterans and caregivers to the best of our abilities. While a number of respondents remain unaware that it is illegal for the AFGE to strike (“”), the reduction in representation down to only 25% on-the-clock time serves as a death blow to union protection. Some people will reply, “Good.” They want complete obliteration of the VA. The more rational among us, however, remain hopeful for justice to be served to the point where Weingarten rights aren’t violated, union members will be fairly represented, and whistleblower protection rights will be upheld.

    1. Hey Snow Flake,

      22 Veterans suicides every friken day! A major contributing factor is the most corrupt Union in America known as the AFGE. Anybody paying dues to your union is contributing to the whole sale manslaughter of United States Veterans.

      So go lie down by your dish and melt!!!

      1. @Seymore Klearly
        In true John Dennis (playwright) fashion, I stole your thunder when I preemptively stated, “They use passé terms like ‘snowflake,” predicting that at least one respondent would use an ad hominem attack. As a fan of Shakespeare—since you quoted the playwright on July 26, 2018, in the comment section of the Falsified Credentials Spell Disaster For Would-Be American Legion Executive post—I figure you’ll enjoy the Dennis-Shakespeare reference, because Shakespeare was also said to have been so unoriginal as to steal Dennis’ ideas as you’ve appropriated the “snowflake” term I predicted one clichéd soul may utter.

        Now if you are going to use statistics, perhaps you may want to cite them appropriately. The 22 veteran suicide statistic you reference is from 2012. “The VA’s 2012 report stated 22 veterans succumbed to suicide every day — a number that’s still often cited incorrectly. That number also included active-duty troops, Guard and Reserve” (“”). While it may be argued that even one veteran suicide per day is too many, it is equally as important to correctly cite statistics; otherwise, you may wind up looking like a fool. (Too late.)

        As for your suggestion regarding the proposed “major contributing factor [being] the most corrupt Union in America known as the AFGE,” you provide nothing more than matters of conjecture. First, where is the valid evidence supporting the “most corrupt” element of your argument as it relates to the AFGE? Second, what proof do you offer that the AFGE is morally, ethically, or legally responsible for decisions that veterans make when choosing to end their lives? Lastly, would it not prove more relevant to cite objective evidence to support your claims rather than foolishly grandstanding with platitudes of subjectivity? (Too late.)

        Likewise, your suggestion that “Anybody paying dues to your union is contributing to the whole sale manslaughter of United States Veterans” is also lacking valid evidence. As a disabled veteran myself, and AFGE member, it would seem a bit redundant to have chosen a career to help my fellow brothers and sisters while at the same time bringing about their deaths. It would further prove counterintuitive to participate in the “manslaughter” of those I vowed to defend with my life when serving my country. Again, your argument lacks sustenance in the form of verifiable evidence and your foolhardy approach to this discussion is wanting.

      2. As I stated earlier in this thread.

        Fuk you snowflake!!!

        It is clear that you have truly lost touch with reality. I personally know that only a fool argues with an idiot so don’t bother trying to get witty. Just go lie down by your dish and melt.

        I am no fool, so I will not waste my time trying to show you reality. So, just go lie down by your dish and melt.

      3. @Seymore Klearly
        I present you with an apparently indefensible argument, you resort to replying with, “Fuk you,” and I’m the one accused of being a snowflake? I suppose the foolhardy fools who so foolishly practice foolery will fool even when fooling appears to be so foolish. Carry on.

      4. For anyone who is wondering how I know that the AFGE is the most corrupt Union in the U.S.A

        2017 AFGE is ranked the most corrupt Union in the USA.

        “American Federation of Government Employees Still the Most Corrupt Union in the U.S.A.”
        Bob Gilson, Fed Smith, August 3, 2017

        “Sad State of Affairs

        AFGE has, without doubt, proven itself the most corrupt union in the United States among both public and private sector labor organizations. I’m not alleging this. It is a proven fact.

        Below you can read not the indictments but the convictions of AFGE for corruption copied directly from the Department of Labor Criminal Enforcement Webpages. Please don’t rely on my statements, read the conviction information for yourself.

        The statistics are even more damning.

        In 2017 (and it isn’t even the end of the year), eleven AFGE elected officials have either been convicted or pled guilty to corruption offenses. That’s more than all the Federal sector unions put together including the postal unions. Postal unions had six convictions and the National Federation of Federal Employees (NFFE) had one. That means that 60% of all criminal corruptions reported for Federal sector unions were committed by AFGE. If you leave out the Postal Service unions, AFGE accounts for over 90% of union corruption in the Federal government. The highest number in the private sector was earned by the Machinists with four convictions or pleas. The Teamsters, who carry a bad rep for past problems, had one conviction in 2017”

        Full Article At: “”

        In 2015 the AFGE is ranked the most corrupt Union in the USA.

        “AFGE Leads All American Unions in Criminal Misconduct by its Officials Since 2014”

        Bob Gilson, Fed Smith, June 4, 2015

        “According to the Office of Labor-Management Standards of the Department of Labor website, the following criminal actions took place with regard to Federal employee union officials since January of 2014. Sixteen involved the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) and one, the National Association of Government Employees (NAGE).”

        “These cases don’t require any editorial comment but you gotta ask who at AFGE’s headquarters is asleep at the switch. Remember these actions followed investigations by the Labor Department not as the result of any internal review. I would be curious to see what actions their employing agencies took, if any, as there must be some nexus between criminal misconduct and a negative effect on the efficiency of the service for most if not all of their government jobs.”

        Full Article At: “”

      5. Bro, you talk more AFGE than about the plight of Veterans. Get off the boat.

      6. Oh and to clarify for the snowflake. My last post was not for you so don’t bother trying to understand the reality of things.

        So, snow flake just go lie down by your dish and melt. You are really smelling up the pages with your corrupt union filth.

      7. @Seymore Klearly
        **I originally tried to post a response using several linked websites, all in quotes, though this forum apparently isn’t compatible with the citation of multiple sources. Therefore, you will have to search referenced sources on your own time by using the information I’ve provided.

        You state, “For anyone who is wondering how I know that the AFGE is the most corrupt Union in the U.S.A,” which I presume is your attempt at engaging in constructive dialogue with others who read these comments, not the very person whose argument you can’t adequately address. How quaint. Nonetheless, since you put forth the effort I will award you with a response.

        First, it is important to know how to employ the use of critical thinking. Dot-com sources are commercially-driven, meaning people make money for posting pretty much whatever they desire. Whether dog-whistling to a particular group or outright addressing people who form an echo chamber (much like you constantly do within the comment section of this forum), the owner of a dot-com source isn’t required to present factual information. Often, these sites are aimed at appeasing a certain demographic. The source you use (“www.fedsmith[dot]com/”) is precisely the sort of biased site I’m addressing.

        Per its own admission FedSmith states, “We fund our services through paid advertising. runs paid ads submitted through Google AdWords™ and the Google Ad Exchange” (“www.fedsmith[dot]com/about-us/”). Now let me use the same behavior as you in order to more effectively demonstrate my point. According to one source, “Arguably the most famous internet company in the world, Google and controversy seem to walk hand in hand lately” (www.theclever[dot]com/the-15-most-corrupt-tech-companies-in-the-world/), as this particular source identified Google as the eleventh most corrupt tech company in the world. You know, Google…the very entity that pays FedSmith—the site you’re using as evidence. A simple matter of deduction would lead one to conclude that (per the dot-com source) if Google is corrupt FedSmith is also shady, and by you having utilized a FedSmith link when proving a point you have engaged in corruption. Do you see how foolish things may become when using biased sources? (I’m doubting you do.)

        Next, according to FedSmith, “FedSmith[dot]com is an interactive site” (“www.fedsmith[dot]com/about-us/”), which is essentially the same business model as Wikipedia. Those who dare to present such sources as valid in the realm of academia, professional environments (i.e., peer-reviewed or evidence-based entities), or settings where intellectual honesty is required would be severely criticized, and rightfully so. Presenting opinion as objectively factual isn’t appropriate when engaging in intelligent discourse. This isn’t to suggest that all information on FedSmith is useless any more than the current forum we’re engaging with. What I am suggesting, however, is that if you intend to use an open source link from a biased outlet as empirically-supported evidence you’d be better off sticking with the current forum’s echo chamber hang-arounds rather than engaging with someone who can call you on your nonsense.

        Moving on, let’s dig a bit deeper into the background of Bob Gilson who wrote the article you’re using as evidence. During his House Oversight and Government Reform subcommittee testimony on May 24, 2018, Mr. Gilson stated, “Equal Employment Opportunity regulations creates what it also calls ‘official time,” and, “There are literally hundreds of thousands of EEO allegations a year” (“www.c-span[dot]org/video/?446066-1/hearing-reviews-federal-union-workers-official-time-date-reporting”), as he advocated for reduction in federal protections relating to government workers for not only the AFGE though also in regards to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. When questioned about his testimony Mr. Gilson admitted, “There is a benefit in some circumstances for labor and management to sit down and solve problems, and to negotiate…to work on employee grievances,” countering his previous testimony.

        When questioned even further Mr. Gilson admitted his bias by stating, “I’m sitting at the bargaining table right now for a couple [organizations] as their chief negotiator, and I’ve done this for my whole career.” He acknowledged that he represents agencies such as the VA—the very entity you and your sort generally call for the destruction of. His illustrious 40-year career has been devoted to opposing worker rights, and this is the source you expect me to accept as evidence to support your stance? In his FedSmith article Mr. Gilson offers no objective evidence to support his claims, only subjective elements which directly correlate with his biased career goals of opposing worker’s rights.

        Let me get this straight. You despise the VA while at the same time using the statement of an agency chief negotiator in the form of a FedSmith article, is that correct? You offer a dot-com source that by the site’s own admission is funded by a company that has been subjectively referred to as one of the most corrupt businesses in the world, correct? If you can’t see the foolishness of your behavior at this point it is far beyond my desire to highlight it any further. Of course without the ability to adequately defend your indefensible drivel-of-an-argument, I’d expect nothing less than for you to finish with an asinine, “Fuk you snowflake!!!”

      8. @ANutterVet
        There is no appeasing some people, bro. Any defense of the AFGE constitutes advocacy for what many of you consider to be the enemy. Suppose you were Christian and believed that Satan was your rival. There’s absolutely nothing a Satanist could say to convince you of a sound argument against your position. Likewise, if you view the AFGE as being equivalent to the VA, and therefore in direct opposition to your anti-VA stance, there is nothing I can state that will cause you to view the matter differently. That sort of binary, adversarial, group-think isn’t something I’m interested in entertaining for any lengthy measure of time.

        I’m a disabled veteran who clearly stated elsewhere in the current comment section, “Some of us served veterans and caregivers to the best of our abilities,” “If after doing so you are still unable to empathize with those VA employees who aren’t corrupt and who are attempting to improve the quality of lives for the veterans and caregivers they serve, it may be that you are unable to see past your own level of bias as so many others are who frequent this comment section,” and, “While you and your variety call for destruction I maintain some semblance of hope so that those of us who truly helped veterans and caregivers will not be overrun by oppressive tracks of the VA bulldozer.”

        Your entrenched position disallows you from seeing anything other than an enemy in me. You can’t see past the end of your nose long enough to credit those of us who worked for the VA and are members of the AFGE who actually did more than “talk” about the “plight of Veterans.” I got off the sideline, rolled up my sleeves, and entered the arena where action—not words—was needed in order to help my fellow brothers and sisters. My employment was wrongfully terminated while helping others and it was the AFGE, not you or others who do nothing more than criticize, who stood up for me.

        You remind me of the words from General David M. Shoup, “The galleries are full of critics. They play no ball, they fight no fights. They make no mistakes because they attempt nothing. Down in the arena are the doers. They make mistakes because they try many things. The man who makes no mistakes lacks boldness and the spirit of adventure. He is the one who never tries anything. His is the brake on the wheel of progress. And yet it cannot be truly said he makes no mistakes, because his biggest mistake is the very fact that he tries nothing, does nothing, except criticize those who do things.”

      9. Hey ANutterVet,

        Have you notice how the idiot SnowFlake trolling everybody is trying to incorporate the use Trevor’s Axiom in his trolling.

        What a fricken moron!! He doesn’t even know that most of the major news site uses ad words and thinks that it is something exclusive to FedSmith Dot Com. He didn’t even know that Ben uses it to help pay the cost of managing this site.

        For anyone who is not familiar with the term “Trevor’s Axiom” it is very well defined in the Encycolopeidadramatica at: “”

        I wonder why the troll is only posting during working hours. Is he getting paid through “Official Time” while trolling us?

        Ben, please check his IP address.

      10. @Seymore Klearly
        ….a South Park reference and a call to dox me, that’s the best you can do?

    2. Redundancy is typical of VA bureaucracy. I take it you work at the VA…

      Those of us who would like change lose faith in a system that is blind, deaf and dumb. The AGFE has failed to clean the house and you expect veterans to cheer you guys on? Once you figure out how so many of us have become so calloused in our opinion of the VA, you have taken your first step in figuring out how to solve the problem.

      Until then, all the good guys in the world will not hide the rot. Unions originally were organized for the good of all working people. Now, they are selfish institutions that could care less about the rest of the world, as long as they get the inside deal, they let working class people get the shaft. They have become a part of the problem instead of the solution.

      I have little respect for unions for a good reason.

      1. @js
        I no longer work at the VA, though I am still an AFGE member. Do I, as an AFGE member, expect anyone to “cheer” me on? No. What I do expect is that federal protections for worker’s rights be upheld. Allow me to give you an example of what it is I’m advocating, and perhaps you’ll have some thoughts to consider.

        Jane Doe is a disabled veteran who served two periods of enlistment in the Army. During her service she learned of a need for mental health professionals among the military personnel with which she served. Those same service members would one day become veterans and Jane considered it a worthy effort to pursue a professional degree that would allow her to serve veterans after discharge—much in the same way Ben currently does.

        Once she obtained the necessary education, training, and credentials for employment Jane gained VA employment. It didn’t take long for Jane to discover the reason a union was necessary in her workplace. She joined the AFGE as a means to provide protection regarding the level of corruption she observed from members of upper management. After all, Jane wasn’t an attorney and didn’t know the various legal policies designed to ensure that members of the federal government abided by employment regulations. Jane was a mental health provider and focused her time and energy towards helping veterans and caregivers while allowing the Union to advocate for workers.

        One day while performing her duties, Jane was made aware of gross fraud, waste, abuse, and neglect occurring within the facility at which she worked. The newly-formed Office of Accountability and Whistleblower Protection (OAWP) afforded VA employees the opportunity to identify wrongdoing without remaining subject to reprisal. Jane filed an official complaint—one she thought was submitted anonymously—however, Jane was unaware that when she filed the complaint using her government computer the report was traced back to her log-in credentials.

        Jane’s supervisor subsequently called her into an office where another member of VA management was present. Remembering her Weingarten Rights, Jane requested an AFGE representative. Yet since the Union had been crippled to where only 25% of official time could be utilized at work, Jane was unable to acquire union representation in time. VA officials accused Jane of trumped-up allegations of misconduct and as a new-hire she wasn’t granted the ability to complain to the U.S. Merit Systems Protection Board. As well, the OAWP failed in protecting a whistleblower from retaliation for having filed a complaint.

        VA management officials were able to terminate Jane’s employment as an at-will employee. Without having maintained the ability to consult with a union representative when initially called into an office with VA supervisors, Jane’s worker protections were severely weakened. Keep in mind that Jane hadn’t harmed veterans or caregivers. Rather, she’d endured years of schooling and training in order to advocate for a community that was near and dear to her heart. This example isn’t a matter of the AGFE failing to “clean the house,” it’s a representation of circumstances that numerous VA employees and former employees have faced.

        You may remain “calloused” and refuse to consider a perspective other than your own. You may declare the Jane Doe example as nothing other than union propaganda. I strongly encourage you to take time to review the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission website (“”) in reference to VA-specific decisions that mirror Jane’s scenario. If after doing so you are still unable to empathize with those VA employees who aren’t corrupt and who are attempting to improve the quality of lives for the veterans and caregivers they serve, it may be that you are unable to see past your own level of bias as so many others are who frequent this comment section.

        As I initially stated in this post, it was inevitable for someone to use “no true Scotsman suggestions,” also known as the appeal to purity fallacy. Stating, “Unions originally were organized for the good of all working people. Now, they are selfish institutions that could care less about the rest of the world […]” is a prime example of this logical fallacy. (It’s almost as though I have the power of prediction.) To this faulty generalization I again say that until you are willing and able to look past your own bias you will fail to see things as they truly are. Not all AFGE members are “selfish,” “care less” about others, or are here to “shaft” people.

      2. Bro, Veterans first. PERIOD. You’ve got it easy. Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttt.

      3. JPT, what did the AFGE do to resolve the problem of Janes Weingarten rights being violated?


        So management was not held accountable and it will happen again?

        Why not just admit the union allowed Jane to be thrown under the bus?

      4. @ANutterVet
        Commenting with the same rhetoric on each reply I post is lazy.

      5. @js
        I thought it was you who stated, “Redundancy is typical of VA bureaucracy,” not redundancy was something you offered in the form of a vague reply to my thoughtful contribution. “Spiritual activity, education, civilization, culture, the idea are all vague, indefinite concepts, under the banner of which it is quite convenient to use words that have a still less clear meaning and therefore can easily be plugged into any theory.” ― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

      6. @91Veteran
        You missed the entire point of the scenario. With reduction of union representation down to only 25% of official time Jane was not able to access adequate union representation. It wasn’t the Union who threw Jane under the bus in this case. It was the fact that the Union was out of the picture 75% of the time, due to the Executive Order, that resulted in Jane’s worker rights having been violated. Try as you may, you simply can’t bring forth enough vitriol to support your stance in an intellectually concise manner. As Ben Shapiro would suggest, “Facts don’t care about your feelings.” Your hostility towards the AFGE doesn’t support a solid argument.

      7. JPY, your condescending attitude and lack of addressing points made is very typical of what veterans experience on a daily basis at the VA.

        I am not at all shocked you would defend that.

        Yes, the AFGE allowed her rights to be violated. You just don’t care to admit it.

        If she requested union representation, it was illegal for management to take action against her until that representation could be arranged. It does not have to happen the same day as you imply. The union allowed her to be fired, and allowed her rights, and the rights of other AFGE members to be violated by ignoring her request for representation.

        Own it. This is the organization you defend.

    3. Again, 25% of time spent on union activities is standard, but it still must be approved.

      Just because some union thug claims they cannot get their representation done in 2 hours during a work day does not mean the union is receiving a death blow. It means they are following the law. It also means management will be held accountable for any time approved.

      Pro union commenters whine about poor employees being at the mercy of bad management and the loss of employee rights. Pro union commenters ignore the rights of management (approval of time/work to be done), and the taxpayers that have to pay for everything.

      This will bring accountability back, and perhaps force unions to stop working with bad management against good employees. Perhaps it will force unions to stop defending worthless employees that need to be fired.

      There is ZERO loss of Weingarten rights with this EO. Employees still have a right to representation. They just can’t take all damn day figuring out how to get out of the mess they are in.

    4. One other thing…

      You will never gain sympathy whining about your poor union rights when the unions demand job openings be exclusive to members, locking out the very veterans you claim to care so much about.

      You will not gain sympathy whining to veterans who have witnessed fellow veterans be terminated from VA employment just before their 1 year probationary period is up because that employee was concerned over proper veteran care.
      You will not gain sympathy bitching about union rights when the rights of veterans are violated by unconstitutional kangaroo courts after some union thug was offended by a veteran.

      YOU WILL NOT GAIN SYMPATHY from veterans who watched a union defend a union thug who beat an elderly veteran to death, then demand that thug be given time off with pay to recover.

      Veterans are dead because of the AFGE. I don’t give a DAMN about the time you are given to represent some thug not being enough.

      1. @ 91Veteran
        I encourage you to read the scenario I provided to @js, because it addresses much of the information in your first response to me. That stated, I’d like to respond to something else you declared. You said, “Pro union commenters,” of which I clearly am, “ignore the rights of management (approval of time/work to be done), and the taxpayers that have to pay for everything.” I’ll try not to assume anything here by wondering if you realize that AFGE members who work for the government are also taxpayers. Just as was the case with military service, to a degree we literally pay our own salaries. Surely you see the folly of your “taxpayer” reference.

        Next, you repeatedly state that I’m “whining.” If advocacy looks like whining to you, I suppose the misnomer stands. Nonetheless, I have no idea what you’re talking about when you state, “You will never gain sympathy whining about your poor union rights when the unions demand job openings be exclusive to members, locking out the very veterans you claim to care so much about.” I’m aware of veteran’s preference and other veteran-centric hiring and retention programs; however, I’m unaware of any employee incentive regarding the hiring of only union members. Care to expound?

        When you state, “You will not gain sympathy whining to veterans who have witnessed fellow veterans be terminated from VA employment just before their 1 year probationary period is up because that employee was concerned over proper veteran care,” you’re preaching to the choir. I am one such veteran. My employment was terminated when I was in “term” (temporary) status. Now here I am advocating for disabled veteran AFGE member’s employment. So…your point is…? (Your level of projection is godlike. Seriously, if there were prizes for transferring one’s personal matters all over others you would be in line to win a toaster or something.)

        Lastly, you state, “Veterans are dead because of the AFGE.” Where is the proof that it was specifically the AFGE that was at fault? As I’ve stated in numerous other threads on this forum, Hitchens’s razor maintains that “What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.” Where is the data to support such an outstanding claim? Additionally, more proof and less all-caps when making one’s point can go a long way when arguing a stance.

      2. Yeah, I’d put you passing through my damn colon, heading down to the rectum to be spewed out into the Throne of Bowl. Flush. Union should be out of any healthcare. It’s a burden on the receiver not the employees.

      3. @ANutterVet
        Commenting with the same rhetoric on each reply I post is lazy.

      4. JPT, there is nothing indicating a folly in my comment. Again, you refuse to admit the AFGE has been abusing the taxpayer for years.

        As for AFGE members being taxpayers, it matters not when they steal more than they would ever pay in in taxes.

        Yes. You are whining. You are whining because of now having to be held to the same standard as any other federal union.

        The rest of your comment is condescending blather.

    5. Hey, snowflake,
      “Just Passing Through” – how about you taking your lying happy ass on down the road.
      When you come on here and stick up for the most corrupt union in America, go fuck yourself.
      Lastly, when your best friends, yeah asshole – PLURAL, ends up fucking dead, because VHA miscreants can’t diagnose cancer vs diabetes, and the union steps in and gets those miscreants transferred – fuck you!
      Unions are a waste of fucking oxygen!
      These reprobates need to be fired!

      1. @Crazy elf
        In keeping consistent with the unoriginality of @Seymore Klearly, I see you, too, are employing the use of an ad hominem attack—perhaps in hopes that I will in some way react irrationally. I’m going to have to deprive you of such glory for now. However, I do have to hand it to you on one point. Using my power of prediction (or more accurately retrospective skill of deduction), initially I stated others would use “ad hominem attacks, strawman arguments, no true Scotsman suggestions, etc.,” though I could have also listed the red herring fallacy you so eloquently provided (“Lastly, when your best friends, yeah asshole – PLURAL, ends up fucking dead, because VHA miscreants can’t diagnose cancer vs diabetes, and the union steps in and gets those miscreants transferred”). Well done!

      2. @Nexdeceptus
        You’re most welcome. (And yes, I’m trolling you.)

      3. @Just Passing Gas– OMG what shall I do??? Game on bitch. At least I don’t have to take up so much space. If you want to converse with such a lowly individual such as myself I’m game! I would appreciate wasting your time. Let me start. I’ll bet you weigh at least 300 pounds, have snack wrappers laying on the floor, and like to have conversations with small children and have a mirror on your desk. YOUR TURN BITCH BOY!

      4. @Nexdeceptus
        I bet that name joke goes over well with others with a second grade mentality. “At least I don’t have to take up so much space.” Cool story, bro. Essentially, you admit that you have nothing worth saying or listening to. I agree. You know, I’ve heard of some people who are so lonely, so intellectually and socially destitute that they actually look forward to confrontation online, because their lives would otherwise have no meaning. Rumor has it these same individuals recycle second grader humor.

        At any rate, I typically respond to posts for only two days, today being the second day. I don’t sit around waiting for others to reply and I don’t receive email alerts when others respond. Knock yourself out with playing whatever game you believe I’m interested in playing. When you eventually realize that you’re talking to yourself, maybe you could call the game Echo. No, wait. Maybe you could call it Ad Hominem for All of Them. No, no. Better yet you could call it I’m So Empty Inside, I Cast My Anger Outside. Whatever you wind up calling it, you’ll be playing the game alone.

    6. Hey union cheerleader, count me in on attending the destruction of VA as we know it party. Unions have been crippling America for a very long time and AFGE is a grand daddy of putting the old big green weiner up Uncle Sam’s rump so long they consider their actions like you as an act of love and not rape.

      You and your nepotistic cohort of deception, malfeasance, and retribution need to be wiped off the sphincter of VA and tossed out with the garbage. ALL of you. Then America needs to fire up the bulldozers and bulldoze the pit of serpents lair into the ground and remove the horror of seeing a VA facility from American soil.

      I for one vote we all stand around the rubble and piss on it too but alas most of the employees will have been evacuated.Pity.

      1. @Dennis
        Of all the respondents I’ve observed on this blog, I have to say that I biasedly have more respect for you than most. Unless I’m mistaken, I once read a response you submitted to a post in which (correct me if I’m wrong) you stated that you, too, are a former Marine Security Guard. Semper Fi, In Every Clime and Place, brother!

        The informality of suspected association aside, I expected more from a commenter who usually posts such eloquent responses. Instead I receive a logical fallacy argument (ad hominem), albeit witty. We could go back and forth about ideological differences—me stating the need for unions and you opposing my position—and for what? I’m not going to convince you and you aren’t going to convince me. When I needed AFGE legal representation I received it for no additional fee other than the monthly dues I’d already contributed. Not a single attorney otherwise would represent this disabled and unemployed veteran, not even Ben.

        Am I biased concerning my perspective? Absolutely. Can I recall a time when I didn’t see the value of unions? Yes. While you and your variety call for destruction I maintain some semblance of hope so that those of us who truly helped veterans and caregivers will not be overrun by oppressive tracks of the VA bulldozer. I believe my stance relates to something more meaningful than sheer bias. You call me a “cheerleader” (honestly, I expected as much from others, not you though) because I advocate for my brothers and sisters who also provided quality VA service, all the while you cheer for the obliteration of the VA. I suppose despite our (suspected) ambassador in blue affiliation, we shall have to stand on opposite ends of the field for this matter. Rah!

    7. Welcome back JPT, your contribution to this discussion is appreciated and a needed point of discussion.
      As a previous poster noted, unions have provided benefits and protections to the American working class. In my family’s case it was the United Mine Workers of America, that freed my father from Continental Coal’s ‘company’ store in 1954. Prior to UMWA, it was illegal to quit a coal mine if you owed the company store any money. Coal companies, like railroads were allowed to have their own police force, the coal companies would arrest and prosecute those who quit.
      Unionization is the only defense to corrupt and greedy employers.

      1. Back in the 50’s, this may have been true.

        Since then, the Unions have become a part of the problem, not the solution. Fact is union fat cats have allowed the Unions to become corrupted, exploiting membership rolls and integrating organized criminal activities into its tool chest to protect against open and free competition for trained labor.

        If you dont agree, tell it to the mafia an other organized criminal organizations that have become tight knit into the unions. You wont change my mind.

      2. @#29
        Thank you.

        I think it’s easy for some people to criticize unions until they find themselves in the position of needing union representation. I was once opposed to unions, because I was ignorant. I believed the free market would sort itself out, people could simply pull themselves up by the bootstraps, and that companies had to abide by some universal code of moral and ethical obligation. I was wrong. It sounds like you share a similar view. Thank you for your contribution, as well…especially since you offer an unpopular opinion on this forum.

    8. I grew up in a remote part of Oregon. Our only next door neighbor a ¼ away had two boys the same as our family and were fast friends. Our best friends dad was a union boss.

      He carried a baseball bat just beside the seat of his Cadillac. He always had a chain stashed too for weaponry. I remember the times those who got destroyed by this man and the rolling down the dirt lane too fast intent on taking it out of our neighbors hide. He was one tough so of a bitch.

      He was American Union and there was nothing they would not stop at. Need some out buildings at the mill torched? No problem. Need somebodies store front smashed in? Done. I know precisely and exactly what a union is – thuggery, extrotion, assualt, and intimidation all covered by lies and bilking their own to keep the Cadillac fueled up and ready to go. And what is America left with? A trade deficit of epic proportions with China because nobody can afford the American shit. Go union. Yes, please, go union.

      Sort of like the VA, eh?

  7. Union Biz should not be 25% on VA time. It should not occur at all on VA time. That’s the moral solution, let the union pay its own people to run its own show, period.

    The VA in my area shuts down every Tues AM, for “half” of the day…sort of…they come back after lunch until 4, then shut it down. its more like 5 hours training, 3 hours work. The 3 hours are like the lazy part of the day from what I have seen. 5 hours per week for 52 weeks per year add up. It adds up to 260 hours per year that Veterans are denied service at the VAMC. I am sure that this is reflective of other VAMC’s across the country, because of the way they implemented it here when this VAMC opened. Everyone knew it and anticipated it was going to happen, not like anyone was caught off guard.

    That 260 hours is six 40 hour work weeks that the VA takes away from treating veterans. Its six weeks that continuously is denied as a solution to help reduce the backlog in VA service and appointments. In the real world,where people dont rely on the niceties of government regulations, this training does not exist. Continuing education comes after hours, on your own time. You stay late for organization meetings like this, if they ever are required. You get overtime if you are paid hourly, and if you are salaried, you are expected to attend as part of the higher tier cash that you get. The solution to training is not done during business hours…clinics are open at least 40 hours per week to provide service to customers, and many of them are open for more than 40 hours. At my local VA, at 3:30, they start pulling the plug. You can see several employees heading for the door before 4. Their real live counterparts are sticking around until after 5, some until after 6 as they finish the paperwork for the last customer and for the end of the day. In the face of labor shortages in specialties, they shorten the service week from 40 to 36 hours and for the life of me they cannot figure out how to cure their backlog. Meanwhile its the veterans waiting for weeks, and months, for appointments that is at risk. None of these people are at risk of losing anything besides having late lunch. Shiver me timbers, what a threat!

    1. “js”,
      Here’s another calculation to consider.
      This new executive order says 75% of the time union members are supposed to be working their VA jobs.
      Ok, let’s go with that –

      Let’s say, for sake of argument, they work 8 hrs each day.
      Ok, 75% of that would be 6 hours, right?
      That leaves 2 hrs for union work!
      2 hrs × 5 days a week = 10 hrs each week × 48 weeks (giving these “hacks” 4 weeks/year for vacation and sick time) = 480 hours each year devoted to union work! Not work they were hired to do!
      BTW, that, if my calculations are correct, is 12 – 40 hr work weeks each year! Double your calculations.

      These union workers could, in fact, use two hours each day for union meeting/work detail, exploiting President Trump’s executive order to their benefit! Which, many veterans have witnessed in the VA for decades!!!!!!!!

    2. “js”
      I got a “P.S.” here.
      Ok, add your “6” – “40 hour work weeks/year for those 5 hours of training for one day a week to my “12” – “40 hr work weeks” for “2” hours each day of union work. Then it’s actually 18 to 20 – 40 hr work weeks each year these hacks are receiving taxpayers monies for!
      Then, add the 1,700 union members receiving high pay to those 18 to 20 – 40 hr work weeks – that’s gotta be in the millions of taxpayers monies these hacks are receiving each year!
      Just saying!!!!

      1. All in all, 1700 members is a small % of VA employee’s…but look at this…

        If all 1700 followed this pattern, the 20 X 40 hrs (800 man hours per employee) would be wasting 1,360,000 man hours per year that tax payers invest into veterans care.

        Add that to the 360 man hours that the rest of the 376k VA employees use in “training” and you get an additional 135 million manhours per year that are used for other than veteran care.

        More than 136 million man hours would go a long way to end the VA backlogs.

  8. It’s sad to see such joy in donthecon, liar in chief’s attack on unions. Yes just like Reagan’s attack on the Air Traffic Controllers which began the overall attack on unions and brought on the greatest transfer of wealth to the top 1% the world has ever seen while wages for workers have remained stagnate ever sense. But sure, while you enjoy your holidays, 40 hour work week and weekends off and all the other benefits you have thanks to unions, go ahead and bash unions. Your kids and grand kids will pay the price for their absence. Corporations didn’t just decide on their own to give their employees benefits along with wages. They are the result of tough negotiations and many lives were lost in the early days to secure what you take for granted today. This EO is just attack in the war Republicans are waging on the working middleclass. There are no positives here.

    1. Fuk you snowflake!!!

      It is clear that you have truly lost touch with reality. I personally know that only a fool argues with an idiot so don’t bother trying to get witty. Just go lie down by your dish and melt.

    2. Dont start with that bullshit Don!The ATC union was warned NOT to walk off the job with planes in the air that THEY let take off, and they did. If it was up to me I would have fired every damn one of them and blackballed them so they never got another job in an airport anywhere. When your union becomes more important then the innocent people you allowed to get on a plane and fly out of the airport, then your ass needs to be removed. Would they have accepted responsibility of even one of these planes went down because they walked off the job? Dont think so. And sorry but the 40 hour week was started by Henry Ford, not a union according to the US Library of Congress. So you can stop your “oh woe is me” bullshit as I retired from Chrysler and was and still am a member in good standing of the UAW, but when the unions have so much power they can dictate to the company how the company can run itself, then they need to be taken down. And sorry chuckles, but there is no war on the middle class. The middle class just got a massive tax cut and the left has stated they will revoke that cut if they get back into power so the ONLY people who are “warring” on the middle class are the left and the Unions. The positives here is that the Unions wont be being paid to just do union work while they are suppose to be working for the company. Even the teamsters and the AFL/CIO dont allow that so why should we allow it from the VA Union?

    3. 1. There was no attack on pampered air traffic controllers. Their strike was illegal and they paid the price for it.
      2. There is no attack on the AFGE. This is a protective EO that holds federal agency management accountable for approving time spent in union activities.

      3. No amount of bullshit excuses can excuse the fact that veterans have waited for care and died waiting while the union stood by.

    4. Don F,
      You are, without a doubt, a stupid moron.
      A couple of important facts about the afge union:
      1.) They are/were deemed to be the “most corrupt union in America!” a few years running!
      2.) When anyone is hired to work for veterans at the VA, wouldn’t you expect that person to work at the VA? Not join a union, then ONLY do union work!?
      3.) It was reported these “hacks” are/were receiving monies from both the VA AND the union! In the real world, these “hacks” should be arrested and charged with fraud!
      4.) As I stated earlier, @ 8:15 am, IF any of these “hacks” are caught not following the new executive order/law POTUS put out, then they need to be held accountable! ie;
      Being hired at the VA, then not working at the VA should be considered a crime!

      So, Don F., go back to your mommies basement, Boy! Stay out of subjects being discussed by adults!
      Lastly, I believe “Dan”, “Frank” and “Seymore” have expressed their opinions about you extremely well!

      1. I worked for GD and was never allowed to do Union Work while getting paid by taxpayers. The VA keeps finding ways to screw Taxpayers out of money earmarked for helping our Veterans.
        If I was caught answer questions out of my Union book to a worker I could’ve and would’ve been fired.
        I wasn’t even a Union Stewart.

    5. Get over it libtard unions are no more than a front for the Mafia and those days are over Thank you Mr President Trump

    6. Gosh Don thanks for letting Us know how evil We are for being happy about this. Certainly You are doing a service We can all appreciate. Now go fuck off asshole.

  9. I didn’t put the whole article on. Thought maybe y’all can see the bullshit getting put on the backside of the veterans.
    Why isn’t it up in Washington DC? Enen though it’s only in West Virginia, it’s an interesting article!

    “Two Years After Trump Promised White House Veterans Hotline, It’s Open — in West Virginia”

    This building on the campus of a Clarion Hotel in Shepherdstown, West Virginia, is now home to the White House VA Hotline!

    Stars and Stripes
    28 Jul 2018
    By Nikki Wentling


    1. NO NEED FOR AN INDIVIDUAL STATE HOTLINE, MY wife called the National line and within 2 weeks the secretary from Veterans Hospital where i get carewas on the phone how to help address my problem. After I explained the situation and she she called back with Dr.s reports and there was not sadly much more to be done that I explained to her that i was and EXPERIMENTAL Aggressive Protocol Survivor from the National Institutes of Health. That the Dr.s are not taking my concerns and my 26 year long case seriously. She assured me that she was going to NOT CLOSE the case but continue to see what could be done. I am still trying to get what I feel I need to live a PRODUCTIVE and happy life. Hopefully it works out. President Trump can be a bit rash and loud at times but you can rest assured that HE DOES WHAT HE SAYS. He is helping us Veterans. ALL Veterans !

      1. Not ALL vets.

        The national hotline would do me no good cause they want us who have been treated like dogs, threatened, harmed or chased off from VA care to go back to the VA or they won’t deal with us, or me. So “ALL” is heavily incorrect to proclaim.

        Having more local contacts or some kind of ‘state hotline’ would do nothing too. My state, the media, vet groups, politicians, et al, are going to do whatever they damn well want to, and cover-up and defend whatever they will regardless of who suffers, dies, or mistreated. Or those like the VA and many evil networks that have the power to see to it the attacks and retribution carries on into the civilian worlds health care… and politics. While those locally and all those connected to the state and OUR so-called representatives sit on their hands and blow smoke, pass the buck, flat out give constant excuses, phony investigations and all things remain the same. Bottom line is there are masses out there that want no change at all especially in my town and state. So far all I’ve seen is FUBAR, excuses, and layers upon layers of just more corruption, wrong doing… and covering up. That includes the hard censoring those in DC or at the state levels seem to care much about. But threats, daily harassment, being ran off from a major local hospital using the same VA tactics and BS is okay and no laws to protect us….. targets. And it all boils down to the cover-ups, protecting their team mates, union mates, to even civilian health care ‘professionals’ locally covering-up for VA mistakes or thuggery. Transparency? The entire system of things in place is badly broken and would step on too many toes and cliques to fix.

        Ben. What transparency? There is no such a varmint in this country. There is no changing or holding those at the state levels, unions, corporatism, all the well established machines, thugs, activist accountable. No investigations will be done or proven to be done so the public or us can actually see what’s happening. All they want is more access to all of our records, to run checks on us who complain, and send out their attacks dogs. No change at “the top” will work while the states and locals can run rampant and keep things they way they are while they all protect each other. Especially locally where unions rule the roost and have strong symbiotic and corrupt relationships with the other sides to see things remain the same and destroy those of us openly wanting change, truth, decency, etc.

        How can some VA managers put out their news letters asking staff not to allow us vet to over hear them discussing union matters or having to sit and listen to a bunch of personal events or stories before we get seen or treated? Oh and then allow the unions to put up their promotional flyers? Last ones I seen was the SEIU.

        Nothing is going to stop unions or activist from doing what they do. May slow it down or make them go less obvious, more underground, not use tax payer supplied stuff, but not stop it. They will just make more potty breaks and runs to the cafeteria like 4, 5 or more per hour isn’t enough. Wearing ear buds and tech stuff to keep in constant communication for non VA or patient business, or to waste more time and play. Anyone paying attention while spending too much time at some VA can easily see what’s going on, if they want to. But trying to shake things up at the top isn’t going to do a damn thing locally unless heads roll and countless ‘professionals,” boards, union members, the attack dogs, all kinds of staff to media are exposed for what they are and do. And that will not happen in Indiana and I think we know why.

  10. From: “” via “AP”
    “Tennessee Former VA Worker Convicted of Defrauding Veteran of $680K”

    “The Associated Press”
    30 Jul 2018

    GREENEVILLE, Tenn. — A federal jury has convicted an ex-U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs worker of defrauding a disabled and incompetent veteran of $680,000-plus.

    U.S. Attorney Doug Overbey’s office says 44-year-old Jonesborough resident Kenneth Richard Devore was convicted last week of wire fraud, mail fraud, financial conflict of interest, stealing public money and false statements.

    Prosecutors say that as a VA field examiner, Devore convinced a Knoxville veteran in 2015 he needed a will, named himself sole beneficiary and forged the veteran’s initials.

    Prosecutors say Devore was forced to resign, but got a job at the National Background Investigations Bureau by lying about his employment and education history.

    Prosecutors say he also lied about being too disabled to work to receive VA disability compensation from 2009 to 2017.

    His sentencing is Nov. 5.


    Maybe Devore should have been counciled by one of those afge pretend attorneys!

  11. Does this 75% rule now mean the Veteran suicide rate will go-up around same %?

    We are dealing with petulant god syndrome children here.

    1. If your trying to be ____ funny it’s not working and making a joke about people in crisis is _______ up!

      1. Cheryl Phillips,

        What is not funny is how the AFGE Union Reps went to the union meeting at Tomah, WI instructing union members to shelf the paperwork and slow down the process of Veterans getting outside medical care to subvert the Veterans Choice Program.

        What are your Union Reps telling you to do now, your job or are they going with well make it worse for Veterans so Trump looks bad?

        They need to fire the whole scum sucking lot of ya and start over using Veterans to fill the positions.

      2. @Cheryl Phillips – And I’m one Vet that’s trying to do my best to get out from under these incompetent poop shooters. To much bs going on, VA always trying to make the Vet to look bad when confronted with a dispute or misunderstanding. VA needs to stop undermining Veterans. I hope Trump initiates a Special Task Force, a force that has the responsibility to investigate any VA facility for possible corruption.

        Most Corrupted Union = AFGE.

        You know it too.

      3. It’s not funny getting fucked over,is it. Especially working at the Veterans Health Coalition and all.

  12. Oh please….Oh, PRETTY PLEASE*…AFGE please, OH PLEASE threaten to illegally *strike*…common, AFGE President David “little” Cox, please threaten to kick some ass and feel the *thump* of maybe *Trump* in saying…”You’re FIRED”!!!

    Common, you can do it….no more conference rooms to divvy-out daily pharmacy take or count the bullets of your Barney Cops with the Disruptive Behavior Committee engraving Vet’s names on casings???

    Please, oh PLEASE Union Be GONE….

    1. namnibor,
      I’d love to see the afge hacks “STRIKE”! We’ve been waiting long enough for something like this!

  13. As in any and all laws, they only work IF the people follow them!
    As we have seen, during countless decades, VA employees don’t adhere or comply with the standing laws set down by Congress or POTUS’ Executive Orders!
    In essence, we will have to wait and see how many union hacks decide to disregard the law. Then we will have to wait and see IF any of them will be held accountable!

    Anyone want to bet NO afge hack will be held accountable after caught breaking this new law?

    1. Crazy Elf, I don’t see this EO as much anti-union as I do pro holding management accountable.

      It has always been a part of established labor law that a “reasonable” amount of time be provided for union activities such as representing an employee.
      I don’t recall where the 25% figure comes from, and don’t care to research it. Perhaps it comes from common practice. Regardless, even if it was 5% of the workday, management MUST still approve it. They certainly can deny it.
      I don’t know about lobbying, but elections, etc. are prohibited from being conducted on “official” time or using government resources. Allowing union thugs to work 100% of the time on union business has been against established labor law, and was bullshit from the first time I heard of it.
      Official time spent on union activities must be requested, and management must approve it. Union thugs spending 100% of their time on union activities shows management didn’t give a shit about what the law says, and they just let the union do whatever they wanted.

      I believe this EO will force the VA to be accountable for the time they allow unions to do union business.

      1. “91Veteran”,
        I should have been more specific on how I worded my comment/opinion.
        Yes, management has been the force behind breaking laws with union stewards in VA.
        At the same time, union employees should be held accountable if they break laws.
        Thanks “91”!

  14. VA had to start somewhere to cure its 300,000 employees’ profligate ways with our $. What better place to begin than reining in 1,700 union leaders, to save ¢? And if AFGE is weakened in the process (like the Air Traffic Controllers’ union in Reagan’s day), it’s icing on the cake.

  15. Dude – Leinenkug is by far one of the best craft beers I’ve ever enjoyed ?
    The guy is quality all the way. This ? on me?
    Combat Corpsman 1st MAW HMM 361
    1963-1965 ( Pronounced without the p & s ) especially for our previous commander and chief . The head chief.
    Ok must go now got to use the Head from that great Leinenkugel????

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