Veteran Puts Huge Smack-Down On Veteran Service Organizations

veteran service organizations

Veterans applauded as one reader issued a smack-down indictment of all veteran service organizations for being “stupid-in-the-face” men’s clubs.

Sue Frasier, a Army veteran and national veterans activist, lambasted traditional veteran service organizations (VSOs) for being “blank and clueless” when failing to tackle qualifications of doctors and disability adjudicators.

For Frasier, VSOs have been asleep at the wheel while selling out veterans. I tend to agree, and her commentary was both amusing and sharp-witted.

She slammed VSOs for taking the general veteran population on a “bungling fool ride” when they report to America that all is well within VA despite obvious reports to the contrary. When it comes to evaluating VA health care, Frasier believes VSOs are running on nothing but “group stupid” while failing to really push for veterans.

Frasier hit on DAV and American Legion for conducting “inspections” of VA facilities and then falsely publishing reports in their “club magazines” that VA is doing great.

Think she is right? Is it time we dismantle the Iron Triangle that has been fueling the current problems within the agency? Are VSOs too cozy with their VA counterparts?


For a very long time now, the issue of QUALIFICATIONS have been front and center at almost all operations at the VA while a blank and clueless arena of VSO men’s clubs, such as DAV, VFW, American Legion, and Vietnam Veterans have all stood around with nothing but Stupid-In-The-Face as a response to it.

VSO’s continue to make the same mistakes over and over again and then takes all the rest of us along for the same Bungling Fool ride whether or not any of us want to ride shotgun with them. The VA disability claims process is running on a network of Raters who have a ZERO academic background either in practice of medicine or practice of law and YET, it is passed off to unsuspecting new veterans as merely a “clerical” event. It isn’t and it is bizzarely mishandled by the incompetent RATERS who have no business at all to be seated in those offices.

THEN there are the Hospital operations – Oh Geez don’t even get me started!!

Academic licensure, accreditations, board certifications, academic affiliations, — the VSO men’s clubs have been running on empty with nothing but Group Stupid for fuel in the phrasing and advancing of THAT little matter as well. How many times did many of us sit through the years while American Legion or DAV did hospital “inspections” and then falsely published reports in their (Ahem!) club magazines that all was well at VA??

“What shit,” I say.

The availability of the Internet has put a new set of Vet eyes on the entire information stream of, and the reality of the crisis at the VA without having to go through the men’s clubs first as a filter. VSO’s have made a complete mess with their many layers of incompetence, and it will only be through the mechanisms of REPEAL and REPLACE that a true overhaul can ever be accomplished.

— Sue Frasier, Army 1970, National Veterans Activist.

Whether you agree or not, her use of “stupid-in-the-face” really caught my attention. I’m still not sure how to use that one for my next smack-down, but I will figure it out.

There is no question that VSOs have done a lot of good. But the flip side of that coin is that they also developed chummy relationship with VA across the hall that many veterans are pissed about today.

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  1. Sue Frazer. Thanks for the non biased heads-up regarding the VSO scumbags. If you would only clue us idiots in on how to get a knowledgeable advocate that’s willing to put in the time & effort it takes to accomplish the end-results. Before my brothers rack me over the coals for me not being my own best advocate – unable after 2nd stroke related to SC- disabilities. Claim is on 4th Remand from BVA. File is now bigger than Grand Canyon. Plus VA health care is severely lacking for my specific needs. Discriminationatory! And the code for “PD” on my DD-214MC HAS ME SMOKING MAD & SUBSPETIBLE TO HAVING A 3rd Stroke or Heart Attack! Semperfimac…

  2. Ben, the relationship between VSO’s and VA is more than “just chummy”, its “bonded in dollars”, reminding you that VSO’s get “free rent” in VARO and VAMC offices. Remember the old saying, “nobody gets free rent”? That applies here, I think its a foregone conclusion that VA intends to “collect rent” from VSO’s one way or the other. Would you like a few examples of how VA “collects rent” from VSO’s?
    Let’s start with National VSO’s, who prepare a brief for Veterans appealing at BVA. Curiously, I noticed, through ebenefits my appeal was “With VSO” for about 18 months. So, I called them. They said not to worry, that my appeal had already been docketed, so there was no delay of my appeal and it was “in the (BVA) que awaiting its turn. Later, I found out that was a lie, that my claim had not been docketed when I called BVA for the Docket number, where the BVA ombudsman told me something far different. This means the VSO “sat” on my appeal for 18 months, adding to an already frustrating waiting period of about 3 years for a trip to the BVA.
    Eighteen months, for a Veteran who is desperatly waiting on a check is surely worth a rent check for VA. After all, in that 18 month period many Vets will die, or simply become too ill to keep up with all the paperwork required for a trip to the BVA, and simply give up and abandon their appeal.
    Whenever your opponent in law offers you the “free” use of their attorney, you should be cautious, reminding you that VSO’s are compensated in direct proportion to the number of POA’s they have. More POA’s…more compensation from VA. Most VSO’s understand who writes their paychecks, which ultimately come from VA. Its all about non accountability, and VA and the VSO’s intend to keep it that way.
    Its not that the VSO’s are dumb..its the VSO’s protecting their checks, by pledging their loyalty not to the Veteran they are supposed to serve, but to VA who ultimately funds a significant portion of VSO revenue. A much smaller percent comes from donations to the VSO.

    1. Actually, I think it is a fake. The VSOs in the regional offices are paid by the VA. I don’t believe you actually get an attorney paid by the VSO until your BVA hearing. And they may even be on the VA payroll.

      1. VSOs that work for the VA are paid by the VA. VSOs that work for the counties and states are paid by the counties and states. VSOs that work for the military service organizations like DAV, VVA, VFW, etc., are volunteers and are not paid by anyone. If you are denied on your original claim, only then can you hire an attorney. The attorney is limited by federal law to being paid 20% of your first benefits payment. And you will be making that payment, not the VA.

      2. So I heard wrong? A DAV officer in DC ask to move to the Central Office. From a volunteer to a $90,000 a year job? Don’t believe so. I believe he was all ready a GS and was moving up the line. 100% disability compensation? A diver with a bends at 100% that he recovered from but didn’t get his check cut?

        And a lousy VSO rep.

      3. A famous man once said, “Don’t believe anything you read and only half of what you see.” I would guess that you are a lousy poker player. The rest of your post doesn’t relate to anything I said.

      4. Actually I messed up the quote, it was said by Benjamin Franklin, and correctly reads, “Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see.” Even with the error on my part, it makes you illiterate on your part.

      5. You said, ” VSOs that work for the counties and states are paid by the counties and states. VSOs that work for the military service organizations like DAV, VVA, VFW, etc., are volunteers and are not paid by anyone.” And I’m saying source please. Simply stating something as a fact doesn’t make it so.

        And your quote doesn’t fit my asking for proof based on what I’ve seen as fact.

  3. Where in the HELL is this POS donny boy? He must be with POSPOTUS! playing golf! I’m so sick of this shit I can puke guts!

  4. She is absolutely SPOT ON – The VSO’s the larger the more dysfunctional they are, Texas Veterans Commission has bungled my cases so many times and in more than one case set me back by years by failing to properly file form 9’s in time.
    If there were a way to sue the VSO, I’d like to find council to sue the TVC right now!
    It is a bus ride of fools folly no doubt! These people are often former VA raters and are STILL against the Veterans they represent, just as they were when they were with the VA!
    The only way to handle a claim outside of having an attorney is to do it or at least manage it yourself, if you expect these bumbling idiots to represent you you are in deep trouble! I am convinced after dealing with this crap for over 6 years that everyone in the iron triangle IS in fact against the best interest of the Veteran!
    One thing I will tell you for certain is, the VA is watching these post and puts PR people out there to say great BS about how they do, Mr. Grey it is my opinion that this is the category where you come in. The other thing is the disparity of how the VA flat gives some folks at random 100% rating for ( some interesting things, I have coffee with one of these 100 percenters weekly – served peacetime, 70’s, stateside and is PTSD – never asked and don’t care, but I have to wonder what he saw so traumatic – IDK and it may be valid but he is another one who touts how wonderful the VA treated him).
    Shit I guess so, I’m 100% permanent and total from a surgery done by a VA Doctor without even a valid medical license and I’ve been fighting for 6 years. I am truly disabled and the VA says I’m permanently disabled, just that their unlicensed surgeon did nothing wrong, dispite my private medical opinion stating it was: Misdiagnosed and improper to even have done the surgery and that the standard of care was not met causing permanent injury!
    My VSO from TVC at the “hearing” presented nothing – I did all of the work, it lasted 14 minutes and was three months later Remanded Back to VARO to counter respond and farther cover their mistakes – that took over a year for them to “Expedite”.
    Last week I get a letter from BVA –
    Your representative from TVC failed to sign the 21-22 (or some form) !

    So talk your crap about how good VSO’s are to yourself!

    This article is SPOT ON!
    My county VSO is the only person in VSO capacity whom I know I can trust and he’s fairly new.

    1. Unarmed veteran shot in the head point blank. Is that good enough for you to apply for disability

      Or would u rather they killed me. !

      The military is all over the ? and things happen. To no fault of the service member.

      Sounds like u got yours. So now it time to pick on others. Its the same thing VA employees say.

  5. I am in training for a local DAV chapter service officer. About 30% of the shadow training gives out misleading or incorrect information. It sure is a shame some of the misleading facts I hear. They only get part of the story.

  6. can’t add anything that i haven’t already written on this site or spoken about to others over the years about this issue. there is always outliers that get great results with VSOs and/or VA. i’m happy for them no doubt! but for most of the veteran population that makes use of the VSOs and VA i’d have to say that function returns a big NEGATORY. veterans are on a hamster wheel with this reality and we all know it. Congress knows it. WH knows it. VSOs knows it. VA unions knows it. Mr Ben knows it. Veterans’ legal services knows it, etc, etc. and Ms Sue Frasier certainly knows it. Glad she spoke up and got some publicity for it. We’ve all experienced it and spoken and written about it, hoping to help ourselves and other veterans to get the hell off the VA/VBA rodent wheel.

  7. The conversation seems to be mostly about VSOs, but everyone is forgetting about the people with the least skin in the game and the least skill when dealing with veterans’ problems; the claims evaluators. It is my firm belief that CEs are typical products of our public education system, namely failures. They can’t read, they can’t write, they know nothing about the military, they know nothing about aircraft, they know nothing about aircraft operations, they know nothing about the Vietnam War, or the Korean War, or World War II, they know nothing about medicine, or doctors, or treatments of various maladies. They would have at most a GED, one of the older types that required a HUGE passing score of 40%. And they care absolutely nothing about the welfare of the people who have ensured their liberty and freedom, the American Military Veteran.

    1. Sorry but got to disagree with you. They know what documentation is relevant and how to use a shredder.

      Also they are selected for hire only if they do things the VA way. Which is Deny, Deny, Deny.

  8. Hey Crazy Elf,

    I posted the other day about the VA and the 167 full-time interior designers costing over 16 million a year the same designers that purchased $16 million of art during the Obama Administration including $500,000 on artwork at a hospital for the blind.

    Here is a link to a follow up article by Luke Rosiak at the Daily Caller that just came out. It is interesting to note that not only did the designers at the VA Aurora money pit plan on Brazilian rock for the landscaping but they also plan to purchase Brazilian wood.

    I guess there is a shortage of rocks and trees in Colorado so they had to import them from Brazil.
    Also worth noting is that there are openings for more interior designers at the VA but veterans need not apply.

    “The interior designers’ pay would total some $16 million a year if they make $100,000, including benefits. A recent job ad advertised $77,000 plus benefits, and said the job would go to a current federal employee, unless someone with a Ph.D in interior design emerged. (RELATED: VA Labor Contract Favors Union Bureaucrats Over Vets For Jobs)”

    “VA’s Army Of Bored Interior Designers Can’t Keep Their Hands Off Brazilian Wood”, by Luke Rosiak, The Daily Caller News Foundation, 9:12 PM 08/16/2016


    “Deadly, Scandal-Ridden VA Hospital Addresses Crisis With … Interior Designer”, by Luke Rosiak, The Daily Caller

    “After years of sedating patients with dangerous combinations of drugs, a former chief of staff whose medical license is in jeopardy, and supposed budget woes, the Department of Veterans Affairs hospital known as “Candy Land” has a plan to fix its problems: Hire a full-time interior designer.

    The Tomah, Wisconsin, hospital posted a job opening for the $77,000 decorating position Tuesday. The person hired will be in charge of “accoutrements” like “window treatments.” The VA wants someone who is either a current federal employee or has a “Ph.D. or equivalent doctoral degree” in interior design.”


    “VA Labor Contract Favors Union Bureaucrats Over Vets For Jobs”, by Luke Rosiak, The Daily Caller”


    1. Regarding the CandyMan, “David Houlihan” the most recent update I can find is:

      “VA’s ‘Candy Man’ faces more sanctions”, by CHRIS HUBBUCH, Lacrosse Tribune, Jul 21, 2016

      From the article– ““The former medical chief of staff for the Tomah VA Medical Center is again facing sanctions from state regulators. Wisconsin’s Medical Examining Board on Wednesday found probable cause that Dr. David Houlihan “engaged in unprofessional conduct,” according to Jeff Weigand, assistant deputy secretary for the Department of Safety and Professional Services.”

      “The case is based on a 2014 complaint that alleges Houlihan “failed to conform to the standard of minimally competent medical practice,” creating “unacceptable risk” to patients and the public regardless of actual harm. The DSPS has not released any additional documentation.”

      “The case now goes before an administrative law judge, who will make a recommendation for the board to consider.”

      But in regards to his status with the Veterans Administration I am sure we all can assume that he is still seeing veterans and more likely than not is reinstated with the VA. Given he had his hearing and there has been no notice to the public on his status from the VA.

      1. Forgot to add a link to the article on the Candyman.

        “VA’s ‘Candy Man’ faces more sanctions”, by CHRIS HUBBUCH, Lacrosse Tribune, Jul 21, 2016



      2. Thanks, Seymore, for the update on the ‘Candyman Can’ ongoing saga. Yeah, I can imagine he’s already designed his very own experimental VA Psych Telemedicine Booth in which it has aerosol jets fixed with different drug cocktails, depending on how you answer the questions or what mood the observer is in that day.
        Everyone leaves with a “Joker Smile” from his VA Psych Telemedicine Booth. 🙂

  9. Wow, seems to be a lot of angry Vets out there. Did any of you send in copies of EVERY doctors appointment dealing with your injuries? Did any of you send in OR reports when you had to have surgery on a service connected injury? Did any of the complainers keep a log showing what doctor you saw and when and for how long and the reason for the visit? Did any of you actually call back the VSO and visit them? Did any of you show a line of incidents starting with the service connected injury right up to the last time you went to see a doctor or a surgeon so you could show that the injury happened during your military time and how it was becoming worse?

    If you didnt then neither you NOR she has anything to bitch about

    1. His can someone submit evidence of your disability. When the VA lied about my military record’s being distroyed in the saint Louis fire in may of 1973.

      I wad not discharged until October 30 1973. !!!!!

      Did they start a special ? just for my record’s. !!!!!

      Many. Times I tried to obtain my disability and told this each time. For forty year’s

      40 year’s of non treatment because of the VA lieing. Bitch is not the word. What they did was criminal.

      His. Do you produce shreaded record’s. Do you have to go into a basement. Rifle through boxes of mixed up record’s yourself.

      Hire an attorney and he find out the VA had my military record’s all along. !

      Explain. !

      Why after working 22 year’s of federal service. 17 year’s as an administrative assistant . awards etc

      And once I leave on disability. A former coworker. Whom just did not like me. Report me to the disruptive behavior committee and they punish me. Using hearsay. !

      Evidence. Not required. The chief of staff admits they have 0 zero evidence.

      So. This proves VSO. Droped my case and VA employees will and do stuff against the law. Like slander. !

      Defend them all you want. Are You at the watering hope now.

  10. Whats wrong Seemore Clearly? mad because the truth does not fit your idiotic agenda? I can document every thing I said, can you?

  11. Hey Crazyelf and all: Today, yet another major insurance provider, AETNA, has pulled-out from Obamacare or is announcing plans to do so. The house of cards called Obamacare is standing on very shaky ground right now. The Idiot In Chief will do nothing, just watch…unless BLM or NAACP officially complain, that is. Just watch.

    1. @namnibor
      Yes, I read about that earlier. What’s the count up to now? 6 or 7 insurers?!?!
      Obamacare is in its death spirals or what we called “dying quivers”! Maybe Obama doesn’t know it’s DYING!?!
      I wonder, once it DIES, where does all that money people paid into it go?

      1. Aetna lost just shy of $500 Million this year alone on the Obamacare Health Exchange. They said no more starting for next year’s enrollment period.
        Even on Medicare, my Drug Plan B monthly premiums are $79. a month and were $52. the year before, and that’s Aetna Medicare Plan B Drug Coverage. Premiums increase but Aetna still loses $$ because on the Obamacare, there’s a VAST # of individuals on State Medicaid/Welfare, in which they pay *nothing*…someone has to make-up that cost, people like me.
        If the inmates were not running the VA asylum I would rather be able to safely and sanely use the VA…but not until.

  12. I liked the sound of 20,000,000 Veterans. You would think we could organize and perhaps get a lobbyist? Like this site has said over and over, the VA does get some good people, then the corrupt swallow them. I have thought for years now that the DAV has been acting like the VA. just couldn’t bring myself to believe it to be true. A sad thing for unknowing Veterans everywhere.

    1. Good idea, Jo3n! Except for one problem –
      “Lobbyists need lots of money to bribe lawmakers!” Oops, I should have said, oh well, I was right the first time – “Bribe” is the correct term when describing how “Lobbyists” get things done!

  13. I’m pretty sure I’ve related this story before, but it sums up why I got off the VSO train and ended up using a private attorney for my claim. I was working with DAV in Salt Lake City. I’d been waiting for months on an update on my claim. I called the DAV, and the rep told me he’d call me back the next day after touching base with the VA.

    A week later, I still hadn’t heard from them. I tried to call, and no one answered the phone. I finally just showed up at the office and asked to talk to my rep.

    When I met with him, he was a surly prick. I demonstrated I could also play that game. He finally picked up the phone and called the VA. Right in front of me, he apologized for MY behavior (which amounted to wanting to know what had been going on for nine months). This did not sit well. I told him he was supposed to be MY advocate. He told me he didn’t like my attitude.

    I told him I wanted to talk to his boss. After searching the office, the best guess was that the office manager was at lunch. I insisted someone page him. He responded that he was downstairs at the coffee shop, and I could come down there to talk to him if I wanted.

    When I got there, he was sharing a nice, cozy cuppa with several VBA employees. I sat back, not wanting him to see exactly how much I was soaking up about his relationship with them. They were laughing together about some claims and commiserating about how unreasonable vets were.

    I left there without confronting them. I was so pissed that it would not have ended well if I had. Of course, the VA provides office space and other perks for them and other VSO’s, so, in retrospect, I shouldn’t have been all that surprised.

    I went home that evening, looked up a list of lawyers that handled VA claims, and sent an email blast to every lawyer in the state. A local guy called me early the next morning. We sat down to discuss my case, and the first thing he told me was I can help you get a higher rating; there are clearly mistakes in your rating. I completed forms to change my POA and allow the agency to withhold his contingency fees, and three weeks later, my rating went up from 50% to 70%. He’s subsequently helped me get up to P&T via IU.

    Never would have happened if I had stuck with DAV. They were more concerned about their relationship with their de facto coworkers than being true advocates for veterans. They’ll never see another dime from me, and I’ll recommend a private attorney for anyone who’s serious about receiving a fair rating. 80% of something beats the hell out of 100% of nothing.

    1. Yes. Any veteran must hire an attorney or the VA will play game’s until the cow’s come home.

      And they don’t have any cow’s. !

      At the recuters office they should furnish all new enlisted soilders a list of attorneys they can hire when they get out and tell them take one your going to need it. !

    1. That’s Bob McDonald’s problem. He Should be sore by now.

      The new person. Has to be no nonsense and jail or fire all of middle and top management as a start

      Once. You play nice. End of game

      Bob’s a good example !

  14. Well you know when it comes to VSO’s most of them are veterans that have been medically discharged. Have taken the Civil Service Test and passed (????). They all mean well in my eyes, they just lack the knowledge needed to be helping other veterans. If they can spell ( does not have to correct 100% ) after all thats what spell check is for now.

    Some of them are good and know what they are doing. But the majority really don’t understand how well trained the VA RO and DRO’s are at turning words arounds and sending the veteran on a goose egg hunt.

    Yes they do have to go through a DAV certified class to become a VSO. Whoop-Whoop !!! And that only covers about 1% of how the VA likes to turn things around along with their wordiness to confuse people.

    I have found in my quest to have my Claim Approved for 26 years now. That the VSO’s really are not Lawyers and do not fully understand the laws that the VA has put in place to make sure veterans do not get their benefits and compensation. The VA spends lots of money on training VA RO and VA DRO’s on how to not approve claims.

    Me personally I need help with my Claim Right Now. Would not know where to begin with as it has finally wet from Appeal Stage to SOC ( Statement of Case ). This goes back to 1990 when I was forced out of Marine Corps with Bilateral Patella Femoral Syndrome, because it hurt so dam bad I could not train with the rest of the troops. Was forced to take a Medical Discharge w/ Severance pay. And been Denied by the VA since that time. One thing I don’t get is that the VA says I do not have what I was Discharged with PFS. ( Hello I am not 20 years old anymore ) I am 47 now and can’t even walk without support of cain. Really need knee braces but VA wont see at Ortho Clinic or therapy to get some.

    But why would the VA deny my claim for PFS as that is what started the whole thing. And 25 years later say I don’t have PFS, but I have Osteoarthritis in my knees and granted 10% both knees. Duh the body does then to age when the years go by, but apparently mine has never aged and I only have Osteoarthritis and Progression of PFS plus secondary conditions that were weakened from PFS.

    Now the VSO’s that have handled all of this can’t even decide how they write these up. So they just put in NOD for ( xyz ) and I need it for ( abc ).

    Honestly I got my SOC ( Statement of Case ) back this past weekend and went to local VSO and explained all this all over again to them. And asked for someone to set down with me help me sort it out and get all the facts pertaining to it in order of years and timeline. I was told they were very busy and they did not time to set down and make a SOC for me that rebutals their SOC.

    I was told to go home open up a Word Document and write down why I felt the VA was wrong and I am right. And to explain why I felt I was right i detail. Hmmmmmm……. ( ???? )

    Me a lawyer now ????

    Not only have I reached the breaking point, but now I have to do for them and be my own lawyer…

    VSO ( Who ) ????????

    1. I would bet good money the VA claims you have osteoarthritis based solely on xrays, and have not sent you to a specialist to do further testing including an MRI to prove PFS.
      Osteoarthritis is something they can claim may be persisting or easily treated. Do they leave you at 10% forever? Or would they increase your percentage as it worsens?
      I think the VA likes to claim other problems are arthritis, even in young vets, or claim its from a prior injury.
      Why would they ignore your military treatment records? Do they have them?
      You might request your C file. You would be shocked at records in there that might prove your claim, but the VA ignores.

  15. Its been 27 years ago when they decided to diagnose myself right,,,, even though right on the front page of discharge and paper work out of Viet Naum diagnoised my problem signed by a Doctor,,,,, of Ptsd iN WHICH ALL YOU OLD vETS know between someone the 70s to late 80s there was a law PTSD was only acquired by Soldiers who served with a CERTAIN UNIT CERTAIN PLACE AND CERTAIN TIME TABLE,,, PERIOD,,,,,, I also because I was there all you had to back then if you fit that is raise your hand and got your Disability,,,,, MANY MANY got it and went working on Civilian jobs Plus collecting there Disability checks for PTSD,,,,, and the Doctors who tried to stop it all got fired,,,,, I WAS THERE,,,,, during my fight for Disability I lost everthing to stay off the street over $500,000,,,, at that time no lawyers were allowed to defend me,,,,, The Dav or American Legion would not help,,, no matter who I asked Senators Govenor,, no one Until I ran in to Helen at the Paralized Vets,,,,, and of course dragged on for Years ,,, they never did pay the correct total amount not even half,,, today I have not recovered even with bankruptcy ,,,, Yep these clubs stopped at the Korean war,,,, Don’t know were or what I will be another 20 years from today,,,,, but will not be at the VA,,,,,, If my not clearing making wording understandable is do to no consentration I have left,,,,

  16. In 1983-1990, the DAV SO’s in three locations (Houston, Dallas, Waco) did a great job of helping me navigate the paperwork I had started on my own, and kept up with me through my moves among those cities. They informed me greatly on my way to my disability determination. I had no further need of their services after that, but signed up for life membership in appreciation.

    In this century, I tend to agree with the critic about the lack of real reporting and real, high-level advocating for change in the VA. I believe a lot of the years-long complacency is a “don’t rock the boat” attitude on behalf of people who have made entire careers out of the veterans business. If they’re calling names and throwing stones, then they won’t be called again and again to pronounce speeches in front of the latest Congressional committee hearing.

  17. I AM a lifetime DAV member I don’t ever read it any more its all BS as all of them,,,, They as a organization has done nothing,,,

    1. Same here, Steven. I had one good representative in DC by the name of Gregory (last name). Otherwise I was essentially without representation. Tried the American Legion and it was worse.

  18. Off topic, but does anyone else notice the VA web site is down? The main VACO web site?

    Great IT work there.

    1. Just tried VAMC Minneapolis’s website and it is down also. There is a message that states:

      “VA Website Maintenance”

      “Our Apologies, the site you are attempting to reach is currently undergoing scheduled maintenance and will be back online as soon as possible.”

      The likely hood that they are doing website maintenance on a Tuesday during working hours is not very likely. More likely their system has been hacked and crashed by a virus. Get ready to hear about how all Veterans medical records have been hacked.

      1. Or…how the VA requires an additional X amount of Million$ to fix a massive computer infection caused by VA Employees watching porn on VA computers while ignoring Vets.

  19. Cincinnati VA Medical Center, VA is LYING, Disgruntled Vets, Disabled Female Vets United, Operation Vets Thrive, Disabled American Veterans Auxiliary 115, Disabled American Veterans OH 115 Cincinnati, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Health Administration (VHA) – U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, America’s Veterans are Loved, Paralyzed Veterans of America, U.S. Army Office of the Chief of Public Affairs, Army Times, U.S. Army, Easter Seals TriState, America’s Veterans are Loved, Jared Allen’s Homes For Wounded Warriors, Wounded Warrior Project, Purple Heart Homes, Leave No Veteran Behind

    The Fair and Polite Statement:

    Yes their are Good Organizations and Good People with Good Intentions but trying to Find them Amid the Others is a Unnecessary Nightmare.

    (Grab the Naive Desperate Vets Looking for help)

    I Believe I have Paid Dues at Least 3 or 4 times to Join a Service Organization and I have Never ever Received a Card or even a Monthly News Letter.

    (Service Officer Roll Overs)

    Wait ion Line for Help only to Learn that it’s a New Person and they are just about Not sure about Everything.

    (Hospital Patient Advocates and Directors Office)

    A person that get’s an “A” for Politeness but generally doesn’t have a Clue about “Action”

    (Veteran Non Profits have Wonderful Sounding Names)

    Good for PR Campaigns, Golf Fund Raisers, they Match Celebrity Names Well, good for Selling Coffee Mugs and Golf Shirts but let’s get to the Veteran that even though Discharged, they still Feel as if they are in the Trenches !

    * Oh Me !

    I’m a Disabled Army Veteran

    Now a Retired Disabled and Terminal Police Officer
    I Pulled Myself up by the Boot Straps (Heard that) and went on to Earn (5) Police Badges and (3) Fire,

    Ultimately, I had a Heart Attack in My Police Cruiser and was Denied a Pension.

    My Life has Fallen Apart in Ohio.

    A Veteran in a Small Town of Arkansas Invited me to come Move to his Community.
    There I Could Hunt and Fish until I Passed away

    I Needed to go and Visit but No Extra Money so I Reach out to the Veterans Organization

    I has only one Reply and it was that they Believe their 200,000 Member Membership Would Certainly want to Help, NOT !

    A Christian Couple; one 80, the other 70 drove me the (20) Hours to get there and back.

    I’m Ready to Move !

    …but remember those Disability Organizations that Provide Housing for Disabled Vets, I have Contacted All of them.and Surprise !!!

    I was Not Asking, I was Trying to Offer !

    I was Trying to Let them Know that I have a Home In Cincinnati, Ohio that has Over $70,000 in Handicap Modifications that I Need to Unload in Order to Move.

    How many of them Contacted me, oh sorry, you already know, just one !

    Well, my Fellow Veterans and Brothers and Sisters in Blue, I still Could use Some Coordinating of My Exit from Ohio !

    1. First thanks for both of your service’s. Of your not 100 percent VA service’s connected. Reapply if your disability had worsen.

      Apply for disability through ssi. Heart attack and then let you go. You should HAVE Bern put on workmans comp hand then given a medical retirement.
      Our country is going to hell. Money hungry people and don’t care if their actions are hurting its citizens

    2. @Rodney Jackson- Since you are in Ohio, I suggest you contact Senator Sherrod Brown. His team went to bat for me back in 2009 for both my SSDI case and with my VA 100% Svc. Connected P&T claim, (Senator Brown’s team helped me win both)…and I Fraternal Order of Police were not able or willing to help you with benefits? (I ask because Sen Brown’s team will likely ask you that as well)

  20. There’s a great site called;
    “” which explains how they went off track.
    The organization is responsible for many egregious acts against their own members. And against veterans trying to enroll in VA.
    It’s well worth a visit!

    How many out there have heard this phrase?
    “If we, [plug in VSO’s name here], get you compensation, will you join?”
    Kinda like a form of “Extortion”, don’t ya think?

    Or, how about this. Vets have the same service connected illness or disability yet receive different %’s and compensation. Like their not reading from the same manual.
    Of course, not one can probably read English. Or maybe VA is “out sourcing” their workload to another country!

    Or, how about this. “Just what is the VSO’s agenda?” It has to be financial. What else could it be?
    If y’all read what these VSO National and State Officials make each year. You’ll understand they are greedy individuals. Look at all the “perks” over top of their salaries!

    I feel there’s much more to this issue. More than what we know! All we can do is keep on trucking!


    Yesterday, a vet questioned my service and motives.

    First, I believe I’ve proven myself on here numerous times. On how I feel about VA!

    Secondly, I’ve described, in detail, BOTH of my military services! Plus my disabilities.
    Starting with the US Army, then the US Navy.
    I was “RIF”, “Reduction in Force”, from the military. Due to multiple injuries and “Combat Related Wounds” from my “tours of duty” in Vietnam.
    The military will use any ‘excuse’ to let someone go. Especially when nothing is happening worldwide!!!!

    1. The VSO wants you to join their side. Be on their team. I prefer the team called The People because with The People I don’t have to show up for team practice to play. I have the supreme rank in this country of Free Man. I have the honor of being a Marine.

      I am not on he side of the VSO because they are not on my side. When they hit stride with the will of my team, The People and agree to use a our playbook called The Constitution, then I will allow them to join me. They can be on my side.

    2. I wouldn’t sweat his comment crazy elf. I first thought he was a troll or someone thinking you were trolling, then I realized from his later comments that he’s not a troll, just a new visitor who hasn’t read a number of past comments.
      As for VSOs, I became a life member of DAV after that VSO in Madison helped me so much. It has been about 7 years of battling the VA at that point. 7 years wasted on other VSOs.
      I have been toying with the idea of sending them my card and asking for a refund, but like the VA, I figured I would get no response anyway.
      I’m also a life member of the VFW, but only because of knowing what a small town VFW was like growing up, and to honor a neighbor who was a WWII vet.
      I was a Legion member for a few years, but they could care less for their members.
      As far as I am concerned at this point, they all believe they are the AFGE of veterans organizations. They will take your dues quickly, then just as quickly ignore you.

  21. In my estimate, Frazier is too generous with the VSO’s. Stupid in the Face is forgivable, one can’t help being a brain a moron, but I see WORSE, I see greed and self interest and LACK of patriotism in the face, when I look at the VSO’s and all of that is intentional, contrived, evil and UNFORGIVABLE. .

    1. I’m with you Ronald. I believe that most of the VSO representatives were more self interested than interested in helping. I had one good one between 2003 and 2006 or whenever it was they transferred the overseas veterans to Pittsburg from DC. His name was Gregory. I wish the transfer to Pittsburg had never been made. My claim died there and I was classified as a “sensitivity 7” which meant I could get no records for me or my attorney until I returned to the States in 2012 and even then it took 4 years to get a copy of the file for my attorney. And the copy was missing all of the documents between 2001 and 2009 which is probably still in some “sensitivity 7” control officer’s file in Pittsburg.

      1. You mean it took the VA 4 year’s to mess up your record’s. Riffle through them. Let’s see he

        needs these ( shread )

        These won’t help him with his claim. Let’s. Send these to him.

        They Do it on purpose !!!

  22. Agree as far as the VSOs. Stop the flow of dollars. Let the VSOs be the Social Clubs they are without the pretense of actually wanting to help and grunt veteran while the officer class vies for political office.

    Get real attorneys for the adjudication side and give them minimum fees for taking a case plus 20% of back award paid by the VA not the Veteran. Change all C&P examinations to be done by the Social Security Administration examiners for examinations outside the span of VARO and Central Office control. If the VA isn’t treating a veteran properly SS becomes the fall back for assistance. The SS office will be motivated to shift cost to the VA for benefits instead of SSI or SSDI.

    As for medical care, I still prefer a good VA Dr., one that is in it for the opportunity to practice medicine without having to worry if the patient can afford the examination or procedure or medication the Dr. wants to order. And one that won’t be worried about paying his kid’s tuition or a down payment on a boat while deciding whether or not to operate.

    1. Sounds solid. VSO’s , 90 % men, are indifferent to the trauma caused by MST. I had one VSO , tell me I was lying. It took three vso’s to finally get someone to help me. HOWEVER, he stopped at brining up my MST. Advised me not to bring it up in the travel board…but I did. The Travel judge was a senior woman,since the denial from regional said I was not truthful I had to PROVE I had been a “Normal” female, and I had to disprove a letter that was placed in my psych file ( which we had not even seen) a bunch of other lies. SO i had to find my old boy friend, others whom I had worked with, my scrapbook from when I was young, pics of me before and after…ridiculousness. SHE finally stopped the interrogation and stated “Ive heard and seen enough” this veteran has been gravely treated” “My findings will come shortly and in the affirmative.” It was tortuous, felt like being raped all over again and again. Recently, A Neuro Resident made a terrible mistake in a medication I was on for migraines, by tripling it. The supervising MD didn’t bother to review. I end up with suidical thoughts, hearing voices, low of visions, and cognitive abilities. I still can’t get the help I need to recover. MY entire life as I knew it came to a halt. Cant find any lawyer to help me file. Its been scary. We all need to find a way to fight this nitemare so many of us are fighting.

      1. Contact. Kenneth carpenter out of Topeka Kansas. Under charter carpenter.

        This. Guy us now of the best. They known not to mess with him.

        Tell them James from LA junta Co. Refered you to them.

        The medication us for migrains. Of you had s hear injury tell them about it.

        This Guy was able to do something. No vso officer or va employee could do for over 40 year’s.

        Good luck

      2. Deny. Deny Die please. The VA moto and their dam good at it. !
        They could care less about your pain

        Should say they just don’t care. !!!!

  23. u cant get rid of the VA. u cant make organization about it. u cant sabotage the veteran affairs from the inside. u cant call people out from the VA people will still keep there jobs about it .VA is already a destroyed system like a zombie eating other veterans brains until they wait to long to become zombies themselves or die out. and therels only one way to get rid of zombies . kill them all.

    1. A better way to get rid of zombies is to stop funding production of those ridiculous movies. Sort of the same thing with VA. Stop the flow of $$$ and within 60 days VA would be a memory. There is but a single key to unlocking the solution; stop the flow of $$$.

  24. I have thought this for many years. I lived it as well. I will say this. After twenty-five years of inquiries through the DAV, VA counselors and others regarding my lost records, a congressman from Florida was able to access them in a very short time. This allowed me to win my appeal at the BVA in Washington DC. In Voc Rehab i had to report to the VARO in Boston. I was put back by the close proximity of the DAV door to the Voc Rehab door. After that I could never be sure about what really happened to my records all those years. I still have concerns for all veterans who have questions. Who comes first?

    1. They. Lie to veterans about their record’s being destroyed or lost and then the veterans find out They lied year’s down the road.

      This was and is being done on purpose. As they have learned that hundreds of veterans will not or can not provide the proof

      Because ALL their evidence was in those record’s

      They save the VA and insurance companies millions. This ploy maybe saving millions of dollars

      But it’s harming the veterans. And they have to be service connected to receive treatment

      The VA double dipps in harming veterans. First deny their claims for disability. Second. When the veterans seek care and tell the VA they are service connected and get upset

      The VA will report them as being disruptive and start to punish and threaten those veterans.

      Again they do it on purpose. !!!!!!

      If. The IG. Would investigate now many veterans this has happened to. It would blow their mind’s or maybe they do know and said oh well.

    2. FLB, I am also 100% sc but never applied owing to shame. It was 29 years of this shame haunting me before I,learned that my brain is programmed for shame and guilt as a severe PTSD sufferer.

      I have learned to identify shame as a feeling and deal with it now and I am well. I do not think anyone who has never suffered a shattered tibia plateau can fully appreciate the sensations and feelings involved in the event unless you have that common experience. The same with PTSD.

      Even fully treat and “healed”, my body seems reluctant to use the limb. The memory of that sensation clings to my spine and it is the thing that sends the chills. It is the thing that wants to scream. The same with PTSD.

      It will take my remaining lifetime to fully dispense with the horror of shattered bones tumbling around inside. It will take a lifettime not to want to cry out when the memory of that pain stabs at my mind. The same with PTSD.

      As a PTSD sufferer it is my opinion that a system that takes 25 years to make good on promises of The People is a system designed to trigger those horrible memories again and again and again. They make you relive the crushing of the bone, the gushing of the red, and the screams that took a minute to realize they were your own.

      The VA by design or default is a system that kills. It kills with shame and horror and terrible regret. The same with PTSD.

      1. redturtle984
        Norman Doidge, MD has a book The Brain’s Way of Healing that I’ve read, he’s probably on the YouTube too. He explains that when the neurons in pain maps in the brain get damaged, they fire incessant false alarms long after the injury has healed. Neuropathic pain its called & I bet that’s why VA is pushing the drug Gabapentin. Neurons that fire together wire together & those connections are strengthened because the pain system in the brain thats linked to the spinal cord never stops firing. Fascinating research.

      2. My VA experience with chronic nerve pain was the VA kept giving me Gabapentin, even though both my legs and calves and feet swelled-up like elephantiasis (seriously), and one VA Dr. even said I needed to be on Lyrica, which is slightly tweaked Gabapentin by a molecule for very reason people have reactions such as mine and die…but Lyrica was not on the VA’s Drug Pharmacy Formulary List and NO ONE wanted to go through the *work* of approving it…I left the VA back to previous specialists and immediately found better relief without deadly side effects and zombifying mental effects of Gabapentin, when I was on and continue to take Lyrica.
        I am not alone with the Veteran having horrific VAMC experience with the push for Gabapentin…I bet they even get Gabapentin Performance Bonuses as well for RXing it and extra points if you let the Vet’s feet swell-up 6 shoe sizes. It happened.

        Better luck shaking a rain stick and drums around a camp fire singing to a real witch Dr. from Haiti’s rantings than what the VA type push.

  25. The real deception is firmly in place in America because here we are arguing about the merits or deficiencies of entire organizations, VSOs that are deemed critical in order for veterans to receive promised care. Do you see where the deception is?

    The deception is in acceptance that private and vast organizations are necessary for relatively defenseless veterans to access the government organization tasked with “caring”.

    We all just accept what we were born into. We accept the lie that ot takes an army of non government workers to gain access to the agency that is fully funded to give access without restriction. It is the job of VA to care and assist for veterans yet we take for granted than the system has become so very broken that it takes entire new organizations dreamed up by God knows who in irder to motivate the government to do the job assigned.

    The lie ina America is not that VSOs are impotent and counter productive. The lie is obviously about “caring” for veterans and the chief deception is the idea that we need multiple organizations to help VA “care” for veterans as they are tasked. I do not see motorists forming organizations to deal with DMV. Nor are are there organizations to deal with a fishing license, parks and recreation, building permits, IRS, Department Of Justice, my own non VA hospital, or any other commonly accessed service. I do mot think there are organizations for prisoners, but there are no claims of Constitutional inaccessibility for them either, so they do not need an organization to help them get needed “care”.

    Yet VA has so many organizations it constitutes an army of folk needed just to some of is in the door! I have lost count of jow many indepndent organizations are now needed to get vets i the door for care. VSOs are just a layer on the rotten onion. They represent rot because their presence is an indicator of decay. The lie to America is that VA cares – the cost to America lays down the street in our graveyards.

    My town has no organization needed to access graveyards.

    1. Well put. It’s a shameful requirement for us to have to find and create our own self-help organizations to navigate what is mandated by law.

  26. I hesitate to reply because of the Haters,but I must.
    I am Rated 100% a Vietnam Veteran a Marine and have 4 serious service connected conditions.
    My many years of experience with VA has not been good,I have been Frustrated,ignored and down right lied to as I am sure many of my fellow Veterans Have.

    The fact of the matter is these people at VA make better than average wages and have good benefits including insurance which is better than our care and as such most,but not all could care less if an Old Man walks in and ask’s for help just because he put his life on hold and on the line to do what he or she thought was right.

    I am not Special,but I am part of a group of those who were promised we would never have to worry about Health care as long as we live,when I was growing up my Dad who was also a Vet of WW2 said,”Your word is your Bond and a matter of Honor,if you do not keep your word you lose that Honor”Promises do not mean what they did especially to those in the Congress and Senate who have forgotten this.

    The VA will never be fixed until Congress holds them accountable and Fires or prosecutes wrong doers plain and simple,but they do not have the Balls to do it,it is much easier for them to ignore us because they have great healthcare.

    GOD Help Us all in my Humble opinion
    Semper Fi

    1. “Special” is a word they came up with after they invented the word “Marine” my brother. They needed a word to describe someone other than men and women who swore an oath of allegiance to defend and protect our way of life. They needed a word for people who did not discard their own way of life to go fight the battles for Americas people. They needed a word that described people who did not lay down their own lives in service to thier country. They needed a word for the protected, and not the protectors.

      You are not special my friend. You are a United States Marine.

      Semper Fi

    2. Hi Bob,

      Thank you for your service…I come from the next generation of veterans. I joined in 1984, got out in 1993, reenlisted 2001, Iraq 2004 to 2006. Medically retired 2014.

      A little history about the vso’s. DAV, American Legion, and VFW were great organisation’s when they started after WWI. The worked hard lobbying congress for better care and benefits for the veterans of the two great wars.

      However, they turned their backs on Korean War vets and downright went against Vietnam vets. All because the vso’s were maid up of WWII veterans. These veterans were afraid that helping, especially Vietnam Vets because there were so many coming back messed up, would jepodize the benefits and care they were getting. That’s when the buddy system started between the vso’s and va.

      To prove my point, it took Vietnam Veterans to start new groups to get the VA to recognize the problems Vienna Vets were having. None of the older groups did shit. In fact, if you research the history since the Vietnam War especially to now, the old groups have been countering any group that attempts change.

      The old guard needs to be overturned by new veterans, veterans that are suffering and know what we all go through to get the benefits that should be automatic. Or get rid of them all and start anew. For veterans to win this war against the corrupt VA and corrupt congress we are all going to have to stand together as one group with a single mission. Mission is to stop the government from abusing veterans.

      We don’t make up as big a part of the population as we once did back during great wars. However, combined we are about 20 million. Give us a mission and we will appear to be 200 million.

      Thanks for listening to my rant.
      AL Shaw
      Army Retired
      100% p&t

      1. Al, I don’t think there is any old guard left to change. Mindset and mission purpose could certainly be emphasized.
        I believe much of the old guard is gone, but the mentality and institutional inertia remain firmly entrenched. I see it often when young vets (Vietnam through today) are in positions of “leadership” within certain organizations. They completely ignore the difficulties their own era veterans are going through because the organizations they have chosen to be a part of have other priorities.

        I don’t know why that is other than they believe their positions give them prestige and access, and easily forget those they served beside once they are institutionalized.

        Many of the younger ones have difficulty looking you in the eye. Older ones get more comfortable looking you in the eye while twisting a knife in your back.

  27. I too am a National Veterans Advocate as well as a 100% SC disabled veteran. I agree wholeheartedly with her assertions and to those veterans who “love” the VA – Good for you! I’m very happy that YOU can get good care/results from your dealings with what is, by and large, the most dysfunctional and corrupt government agency in the U.S.

    What I KNOW is this; the VA hires raters to fill the same “job requirements” as receptionists. (Check USAjobs). Yet their civilian counterparts (Insurance companies – claims adjusters) must have YEARS of training, education and continuing education to get and keep their jobs.

    The VA hires medical providers (from x-ray techs to physicians), without ever doing follow-up on annual licensure or recertification requirements. Let alone monitoring their behavior to be 100% certain that criminals are not putting veterans very lives at risk.

    Actual event: The VFW national headquarters issued a statement to my organization when we asked to hold a meeting at one of their facilities. (Paraphrasing); they “…would not jeopardize their relationship with the VA by being associated with (us) as (our) mission is deemed HOSTILE to the VA…”.

    Actual event: My husband, all three of my sons, one daughter-in-law and myself are all veterans. Four of us are disabled veterans (to varying degrees). In August 2014 and April 2016, three of us (who live at the same address), received “Membership invitations” from the DAV. Upon receipt of the first round of them, I contacted the DAV national headquarters to find out HOW they knew I was a disabled veteran; as I have NEVER used, requested or authorized a VSO in my life. The very nice, but very clueless young lady who answered the phone in their PR office was kind enough to enlighten me. She told me that “Oh, the DAV buys a LIST of disabled veterans from the VA – EVERY YEAR…”!

    When I brought this to the attention of the House Committee on Veterans Affairs – Office of Oversight and Investigation, the Director’s comment was priceless; “That’s great news! Now we can fund REAL reforms of the VA with the FINES FROM THE DAV for HIPPA and Privacy Act violations! At $1000 per violation (each), per veteran, we should net about 40 MILLION DOLLARS!”

    Actual event: When the VBA union contract came up for renewal in 2010 – AFGE brought “revisions” to the table – revisions for rating examiners and their superiors that would ENSURE that bonuses would be attained by nearly everyone. They did so by CHANGING the bonus structure. What WAS the process, was a rater did not receive bonuses until a claim was FULLY adjudicated. The union asserted that rating examiners were “unhappy” with this method and they changed it to a “key-stroke” basis. Meaning that every key-stroke a rater accomplished in a given period built their “performance” towards their bonuses. What ensued is the biggest FRAUD debacle ever pulled on the American taxpayer. Under this NEW contract (which the VBA gleefully signed without argument – because it meant more bonuses!); the raters were now able to “work claims” by sending letters (you know the ones…”We appreciate your patience, we are working on your claim). This “process” is used in the collection industry EVERY SINGLE DAY and it is HOW collectors earn their money. The contract is currently under negotiations. That particular issue is NOT EVEN BEING DISCUSSED! Yet my organization has clearly documented that THIS VERY ISSUE is the driving force behind the rise of the “backlog” and how it will NEVER go away until the VBA reverts back to the previous method of managing claims.

    1. There is so much documentationt of VA a use it would fill countless warehouses. It is rare that VA even really denies anything because they don’t have to. Respectfully, I must disagree with your final point,

      You imply that VBA can be fixed somehow by forcing them back into policies their own AFGE union brotherhood will never allow. Irregardless of that point, there is no evidence I have ever seen that verifies the VA has ever substantially complied with amy law that I know of.

      We have made so many changes to policy, leadership, and hiring that it would fill my iPads memory pretty fast to list them, yet the truck of despair is still stuck on top of vets spinning its wheels.

      The VA has become the monster it is because The People by and large have no idea that they exist outside of our Constitutional protections. Your own post rightly claiming documentation of wrongdoing proves that veterans are still not aware that the VA can be impacted by a Constitutional process like going to court, or filing an appeal.

      I understand that your comment was pro veteran, but I think that we have moved past trying to envision a VA that is not viscious, petty, and dangerous. Since SSA can process benefits that are substantially similar to VA, there is proof that an American agency can do this without killing people.

      There is no historical proof I have see that the VA can do the same thing. VA must cease in the form it is in or they will continue to chew up young vets and spit them out to die year after year after year. No documentation can fix that.

  28. The very reason that America started out without term limits on he President but now has an eight year limit is addressed superbly by Sue. Anyone with close intimate contact with another long enough form a bond with a person. Pretty soon a friendship, sharing little jokes and building “trust”.

    “Trust” is not the disease but it is a symptom. VSOs, an independent organization with a highly select membership are “trusted” by VA. VSOs say we can “trust” that VA is serving our country well. I trusted President Obama to fix VA care. I trusted my givernment paid doctor when she prescribed life ending doses of morphine. I trusted that when I went to circuit court and obtained relief in the form of a Restraining Order against VA that my rights would be protected. I can “trust” that God will fix the problem too. Trust is like that. Once it starts getting tossed around, like a cowpie in the pasture, a little “trust” lands on everyone.

    VSOs have been preaching “trust” that their membership should “trust” VA. When VA showed up in Circuit Court to appeal the Restraining Order in which the Judge simply ordered a cessation of abuse against me (yep, trust the VA cannot allow that!) they showed up with frahly printed medical records (mine) and proceded to read out of them to eatablish that I had used the F word on the phone.

    I trusted my medical records would be used for treatment, not for defending against a legitimate Restraing Order. The clinic manager had simply copied them off and showed up,in court with them to demonstrate that I use my First Ammendment rights on my telephone and he figured that using the F word on the phone gave him the right to terminate care.

    In that court room that day, I learned about trust. The VA made no attempt to claim the abuse did not happen. The VA attorney fromthe DOJ simply argued that Circuit Court had no authority over the Department Of Veterans Affairs, and therefor the Circuit Court could not “restrain” any action the VA takes irregardless of consequences to the vet.

    On that day I learned that my only avenue of protection, the court system, was not “trusted” enough to be able to restrain VA, and they acknowledged it in my face. There is no change possible for generations and decades to come when America has nobody that can restrain this federal government agency. No VSO, POTUS, citizen, Judge (Disrrict, Circuit, or Supreme, or even VA leadership itself, can restrain local VA.

    VA cannot be restrained, yet we keep feeding the monster and it grows and grows and grows. And VSO’s just keep feeding trust to their membership, while veterans die.

  29. @Daniel Gray– So, as long as YOU got YOURS nothing else matters and all is okay with all the VSO’s and Congress Representatives for ALL other Vets?

    Does that not make you very much like most of these VSO’s and that would be Self-Serving?
    How about looking at the vastly larger picture that not all is well as your own atmospheric unicorn fart fantasy land you obviously live in?

    How about pushing your cuddly wuddly VSO’s to stand-up to the VA, you know, to help OTHER Vets just like you? Crap always comes self-serving. (literally)

  30. Personally I think she is lying through her teeth! If it wasnt for my VFW VSO rep in Cleveland who got tired of the VA and their BS and sent me to the Tiger Team, I would still be fighting them. If it wasnt for the DAV and the American Legion who ripped the VA a new one for denying me the HAG grant (home adaptation grant, I walk with five braces [one on each knee and ankle and one for my lower back] and a cane just to be able TO walk) I wouldnt have received it. And the AmVets are now working with the House and Senate Veterans Affairs committees to get the car grants put on the same level as the home adaptation grants, meaning that once you get them, if you need them later on you can reapply and receive the difference between what they are now and what you received the first time. The HAG grant is already like that but they are working on the car grant.

    ALL of the Vets groups that this fool claims is not doing anything, has been front and center in revamping Detroit-Ann Arbor-Indianapolis-Cincy-Dayton-Cleveland Regional office and Indiana Regional office as well as the ones in Arizona and Texas, and are working on others. Just because they are not able to move as fast as Twinkle Toes Frasier wants them to, does NOT mean they are sitting around and doing nothing.

    1. Hey Danny boy you are so full of bullshit. Yes I mean you Daniel Gray!

      I just did an advanced search on Google using the term “Daniel Gray” and used the advanced search function of limiting the search to “”.

      Then with the search results began checking the articles you have commented on by using the ie edit function of “find on this page. It gave me a chance to see the BullSh!t you are full of.

      If it was illegal to troll disabled Veterans you would be in jail for life 20 times over.

      You are nothing but a troll that is so full sh~t.


      Also in regards to SUE FRASIER SMACK-DOWN. She really did do an excellent job. Thank you Sue.

      1. Iratevet,

        Daniel Gray is lying. He has been lying about a bunch of bull he has been on this site spreading since he began posting here.

      2. Thank you for checking this dude out for us and posting it here for all too see… I was just thinking the same thought’s as I was reading his statement but, just like the VA, they “cherry-pick” whom they will help, and help just enough of us, too make it look like it is working for the rest us veterans… “God Sue” I wish that I could have been there to witness your smack-down… Maybe the next time dear…..

    2. @Daniel Gray I think she is talking in general terms, there may be good VSOs out there, but in general I believe that by and large she is accurate in her assertions. A great many VSOs and chapters of the ones you were talking about are grossly apathetic of the plight of the vets that they serve and if you were lucky to find one of the good ones great. I can tell you that statistics do not lie, although most will tell you that they can skew any way the statistician chooses to spin it, there is a disconnect between most VSOs and the veterans they are there to serve. I for one have had to do it all by his onesie and the most help I have received was through a congressional constituent rep. The VSO that originally filed my claim will not return my call. Good on you for finding a good VSO, I wish we all could be so lucky

      1. My personal experience matches that of many. The VSO “officers” have no clue as to the rules and regulations. I have been fighting since 2014 just to try and receive VR&E/ILP benefits and no one at the local office has a clue. I sent the head of the RO and VR&E BVA case decisions, jumped through all the hoops and was still DENIED benefits even though my PCP and Occ. Health agreed that I needed the services. I didn’t fight for 100% pro se to get these dunderheads the win and not about to give up on this pro se either. Onward and upward.

      2. Danial, I have to agree with iratevet. While there may be some good VSO’s out there I have yet to find one. I thought that they were suppose to be there to help the vets with issues. But I have as of yet, not found one. I have had 3 different ones here where I live, over the years and not one of them helped me. They sit in an office at the Employment Commission. The current one we have got mad when I told her she was wrong about something and she said I do this every day, I think I know what I’m doing. Maybe she was right about that and what she was doing was to help the VA and not the vets. Anyway, I could see she wasn’t going to be any help, so like iratevet, I too had more success with my representatives. My Congressman and Senator, than I did with the VSO. I’m sorry to say that while yes, there may be … some … good ones. The bad probably outweigh the good. Also I had joined the American Legion, but have not renewed my membership this year, after reading an article about how they have cozied up to D.C. My VSO, also belonged to my chapter. Again I tried to bring some information for the vets and to correct what she was telling them. I told her she was giving them incorrect information and when I tried to tell them, I was ignored. So I didn’t go back. I think some of the VSOs forget who they work for, the Veterans Affairs or the vets.

    3. OMG….the Indy VAMC is a hell-hole like none other and only getting worse. Nice fairy dust you are inhaling, take it all in so I do not become rose colored tunnel vision on steroids. Damn. Hoodwinked and all ready to be a stage prop disabled vet for a presidential or congressional race election. VSO’s are lamprey to the VA’s ass.

      1. Also, your defensiveness of VSO’s is very narrow sighted when the vast majority of Vet’s experience is quite the contrary and consistently craptastic.

        It would be if I were to have the same defense and say that ALL members of congress and the POTUS are working FOR Veterans and the VA when I DID have a great experience with one of my Senators in my State, but that does not mean all Senators will go to bat as he did for me and paint a generalization that everyone else’s experience is somehow not valid…because of your rose colored world view?

      2. I just went with Lawyer out of Indiana. I think it is different everywhere, but was told not to waste my time with any group in Indiana. I have also noticed problems with getting doctors to send me to other doctors, and when I have been tested and VA pays, The results that come back to me are very direct to exactly what was being tested, absolutely nothing more, like they have been told to be quite. Nurses have been more open. Point is that VA has a very strong developed line of actors who most likely get paid somehow for their loyalty. Even the laws system that is supposed to just look at the facts and the laws has been corrupted by process delays, and long waits to get to obvious conclusions. Can’t trust any of them, but Law will eventually win, as it is really hard to deny or change written documented facts. But I am ten years and waiting with a Lawyer, And I was targeted 26 years ago with a misdiagnoses in service, set up to fail if I tried to file a claim. So it is just now getting straight after many people did whatever they could from giving me my fair day in court. Cost to me so far, is over $1,500,000 just to fight for my rights. Only trust the law, any other direction is a compromise of your rights and benefits, May be shorter, but still could be a compromise. One way to look at it, is they made it to if you get a Lawyer they get 20%, that tells you that is the way to go, as they made it profitable to others and the Veteran.

      3. namnibor, I have been to the Indy VA. I lived there for about 3 years, before I moved and it was in pretty sad shape, and that was back in the 80s I can only imagine how it is now.

    4. Congratulations on your reassignment to the Tiger Team! Yay for progress, eh? I am still in the “antelope” groups of designated veterans.

      We get a team too, but it is named the “continuing care team” which is the code phrase for Disruptive Behavior Committee, after the local VA falsely accused me of threatening to murder their entire staff. I pissed the Tigers off so they made me an Antelope.

      The folks in the Antelope team do not generally share the same optimism as you Tigers do. Generally speaking the Antelopes never allow a prostate screening by VA tigers because so many of us feel like smoking a cigarette and cuddling up with the examiner afterward.

      I envy the Tiger Team folks like you almost as much as I envy the “Ruby” level of sales associates at Amway. You have clawed your way to the top and with luck your name will get drawn for the gold painted Cadillac too.

      What is my case price in single ply toilet paper? Not the VA kind. I need Antelope paper for my butt.

      1. Ha HA! At least you only got demoted to the Antelope Group, am pretty sure I was tossed into the experimental mystery meat group…but we too wish to smoke a cigarette after a prostate exam. 🙂

        Your post made my day a bit brighter. Thanks, RedTurtle.

        Oh, notice our Peace Prize Leader and DOJ are not saying or doing much with city of Milwaukee rioting and pillaging currently going on. Meanwhile, Wisc. Gov. Walker has the National Guard on *standby*…

      2. Redturtle, it could be some people who shall remain nameless like their visits to Dr. Harry Bignuckles, PhD, Brown University.

      3. @91veteran- Purely satire and my dimly lit sense of humor. However, I would think even RAND Corp. would concur that most VSO’s have their ‘Bignuckles up their South ends”, while still collecting dues and cozy relationship with the VA.
        The Harry Bignuckles, PhD/MD’s at the VAMC’s are not good enough for these lamprey, I have read where they, like members of Congress, have their own health plans separate from VA. Correct me if in error, but have see it in multiple places on respectable websites.
        The VSO’s require very special Bignuckles because they VSO’s are always in a ‘prostate position’ with the VA…. 🙂

        (reminds me of great South Park episode where aliens implanted an anal probe in Cartman…LOL)

      4. Having been in the military for a few years, I’ve been around those with a twisted sense of humor.

        I think VSOs prefer Dr. Fister.

    5. Good on you for finding VSOs that will do their jobs, but why slam Frasier because her experience is vastly different than yours and many other vets?
      That’s like saying since you got good treatment at the VA last week that every other veteran must be getting the same good care at their VA.
      Only fools believe such things.
      I have been screwed royally by a VFW VSO, mainly because he was not trained very well, or at all in submitting claims. Hell the VFW ignored many other era vets up until they had to start scrambling for membership, but even then, their good works for veterans has been minimal.
      The American Legion VSO I used was just as pathetic since he admitted he was just warming a seat until he could get a job at the local Air Force Base. I’ve seen other vets be selfish and not give a damn about fellow vets, but he ranks near the top. What really stinks about the Legion is their ass kissing Save Our System project that they have conducted for 13 years on behalf of the VA, which has a massive PR budget to save their own asses. They don’t see the irony of having to run this scam for 13 years, for something that should have been improved in less than 5. They should ask why they have to perpetually run that scam.
      I thought it was truly pathetic when I attended one of their Save the VA townhalls that was designed to bury any bad news about the VA. One of the Legions own chapter officers was a VA employee who was fired 3-4 days before her probationary period was up. The national Legion officer running that dog and pony show couldn’t shut her up fast enough. He’s the same Legion officer who promised me he would look into the issues I raised at that town hall. So far, not a word from him, but he did manage to pass on my comments to local VA leadership in a “here is what this schmuck has to say” manner.
      The Paralyzed Veterans of America VSO was good, but so overworked he couldn’t keep track of details. That is a testament to the other VSOs in the same facility being so bad.
      The DAV? At one time they were good and their VSOs had good training, and I had good service from one in Wisconsin, but others I have run into also seem uninterested in doing their job, or afraid of ruffling VA feathers.
      What I found the worst of the DAV was sitting in a meeting at the Pentagon with a DAV national officer arguing against Gulf War veterans health issues because it might take money from other vets. He didn’t give a damn about other vets, he just didn’t want anyone in his rice bowl, and was too stupid to understand he and the DAV should have been arguing for more money rather than watching the VA take money from one veterans group and use for another group. It was an asinine way of thinking anyway because good research for any group of veterans ALWAYS benefits ALL veterans, rather than whining about money while watching money wasted on bad research by the VA.
      There are other vets organizations out there, some are very good at helping veterans, while others, mainly the “big 3”, VFW, Legion and DAV, have forgotten their purpose.

      If any of them had the influence they had years ago, the VA would have been cleaned up long ago. Rather than using that influence, their too damn busy protecting their relationship with the VA.

      1. These VSO officer’s. Love being able to sit next to the director. Look I’m a big shot. I get to sit next to the director

        He. Even invited me to his home for drinks. I would bend over for him. He’s a good guy

      2. @James- Don’t forget about these VSO’s massive HAT COLLECTIONS!! 🙂 The “organ grinder’s monkey outfit” really takes the award. 🙂

      3. Once I had met them. That was enough I knew it was a waste of time.

        State representatives are no different. Smoke in your face and take your information sometimes mail it out for you.

        Big deal. !

        You write to them boa e-mail requesting s meeting and you never ? from anyone. Even those on the veterans committee on Washington.

        On the news daily the American people are Fed up with our elected officials and should be.

        At least trump talks about veterans and their plight.

        I love it when he said. What 50 people in government don’t like me. So what I don’t like them and don’t want them

        They have been on the job for year’s. See what they have done To this country and he’s right.

    6. I have not been able to get my VSO to even RETURN CALLS, once they have that magnificent POA in their hot little hands. And, this is not ONE VSO, but several over a period of the past 14 years. The only time I got letters from them was to ask for donations to become a member. You have to know the reason “why” they dont return calls:
      Remember who they get paid from: VA. They are compensated based upon the number of POA’s. More POA’s, more money. So, is it a suprise when they get that POA, then they are gone like a snake oil salesman?
      The very worst part of VSO’s is what they failed to mention. VSO’s “fought” Veterans from getting an attorney, arguing they did not need one. VSO’s apparently want Veterans to go to a gun fight with a knife, because VA certainly has plenty of attornies, about 500, on staff.
      It does not take a rocket scientist to know you dont want to face an opponent who has an attorney when you do not.

      1. Joeaveragevet, You can only be talking about VSOs who work for the VA. I don’t trust them any further than I can spit because they are paid by the VA. And the same holds for VSOs who work for States and Counties; they are paid by government in one form or another. However, the VSOs from the military service organizations are NOT paid by anyone; they are volunteers. My VSO is from the VVA and he is excellent. He was a combat medic during the Vietnam War. He tells me that he took “care of his boys over there and now he takes care of them here back home.”

    7. I have not gotten any help from any of these agencies. Cant even get then to answer the phones. They just want donations. Big buttons for contributions but contact us, or for help… b.s. They are just as bad as the VA itself.

      1. Except for the DAV’s Mr. Gregory in DC that has also been my experience. Especially at the local level. Yes there are some good representative in the VSOs. Problem is there are too few and National offices ignore you when you complain about a rep.

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