Agent Orange

New Fix Proposed For Agent Orange Problem

Agent Orange

A new legislative fix was recently proposed by Congress to remedy a longstanding agency problem involving Agent Orange.

The remedy, Blue Water Navy Vietnam Veterans Act of 2017 (HR 299) would fix a twenty-year-old misapplication of law that functionally restricted benefits for some veterans who served in bays, harbors and territorial seas of Vietnam. It stands to affect 90,000 veterans and cost around $1.1 billion.

VA has long held to an arbitrary policy that ignores longstanding laws for inclusion of harbors and bays when factoring in exposures to chemicals initially sprayed in landmasses. It ignores common sense and modern scientific knowledge, which makes clear that toxins dumped into inland waterways eventually spew out into harbors and bays.

VA is instead putting its head in the sand while embracing the flat earth scientific theory of centuries ago. But, it is not embracing this position out of a shortsighted belief but instead because of money.

Agent Orange Legislation Background

The ten-year cost of paying for the proposed benefits for veterans exposed to Agent Orange in the bays and harbors is set at $1.1 billion by the Congressional Budget Office.

Previously, Blue Water Navy veterans sponsored a bill to offset the increased costs by increasing student visa fees for foreign students. Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt) rejected the offset and caused the widely supported bill to die in committee.

Attorney John Wells wrote a compelling argument in support of the bill that covers the matter in depth published by The Hill yesterday.

In 2002, VA took a policy decision that stripped these veterans of “presumption” of exposure granted in the Agent Orange Act of 1991. That policy decision was based on a 1997 erroneous decision made by VA General Counsel that asserted the 1991 law only intended for coverage to apply to veterans on land and not those who served in territorial seas.

Present Court Review Of Agent Orange Presumption

Since then, VA has refused to reconsider the matter and even doubled down following a 2015 decision from the Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims. The Court held VA’s policy that excludes bays and harbors from the definition of inland waters was arbitrary and capricious.

The matter is now up for review after VA doubled-down on its flawed position before the US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit.

Attorney John Wells Proposed Solution

According to Wells, the solution is straight forward and will help other veterans exposed to various toxins in other wars, too:

“The Blue Water Navy veterans are only the tip of the spear. Other veterans were exposed to the dioxin in places like Guam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Panama, Korea and even stateside bases. Veterans have been exposed to toxic chemicals at Fort McClellan, asbestos on Navy ships, radiation poisoning, mustard gas and the toxic open air burn pits in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Donald Trump needs to identify a funding source for all toxic exposures or to ask Congress to remove veterans benefits from the offset requirements of the Pay As You Go Act of 2010.

“VA Secretary David Shulkin can rescue these sea service veterans with the stroke of a pen. Reversing the exclusion policy makes sense and is supported by science. Shulkin can show that he is serious about toxic exposure and start his tenure on a high note. Otherwise, he will continue to face more Congressional scrutiny and litigation.”

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  1. all the v.a. isdoinging is wainting ror vetrans to die then thay say opps. they chase a vets paper work in circles. as far as the present v.a. persenal start at the top firing people to thr bottom. we went through hell ande they dont give a crap. in 1958 i loaded AO on aka io4 andelivered it to the french in indo china /vietnam this waqs done at buckner bay okinawa. the vietnam/laos/ cambodia/war started on first november 1955 stoped 3 april 1975 with the fall of sigon. this was all mil. involvment. check the records let the clowns in washington cover this up. God Bless our vets/ God BLess America/ because the people in charge dont disgusted USNavy

  2. I lost my husband in 2011 due to AO lung cancer. He was in Nam in 70. He was in the 25th Inf., 4/23rd. He was sprayed and lived in the AO area the whole time he was there. He was 100% disabled due to his exposure. Just before he died, he took our daughter to sign up for compensation for Chiari Malformation which is a form of Spina Bifida. She has had 14 brain surgeries to date, there is nothing more than can do for her. We have been waiting over 5 yrs for an answer to her filing for compensation. I understand where you guys are coming from but we also need to do something for our and “your ” children who suffer from your exposure. Spina Bifida is the only birth defect listed for the male veteran. The women have several. These children have more health issues than just Spina Bifida. There are cancers, deformities, missing organs among other issues. They too are falling through the cracks because as soon as the VA recognizes the health issues of these children, it will cost them a lot more money. I want to thank you all for your service, and I am sorry the government put you all into this situation. God Bless you all!

    1. @Nancy Lynch – I’m so sorry for what the VA is putting you and your family through. I realize your frustrations, and please keep revisiting Ben’s Blog. Most Veterans realize or they are going through issues that also affect-effect their loved ones, friends, and service animals. Your not forgotten my Sister.

      Also, make sure when you post, that you check off the box(es) below the Post Comment button. In this way, you’ll be notified when someone submits a comment to your post. Thank you for standing by your husband during his battles in which the VA refused to do so. God richly bless you and especially your loving daughter. Thank you for your post.

    2. @Nancy Lynch: I am truly sorry for your loss, and the troubles you are facing. There are no words to describe the disgust I have for the V.A. for what they are putting you through. I agree 100% that the children of AO veterans, should be receiving the help they NEED. Billions wasted on Iran, and so many other things. It is beyond disgusting, to deny the child of a veteran, the help they deserve. No parent should suffer as you have, 14 brain surgeries……………….my God, I can’t even imagine the pain your family has had to endure. Yes, God bless you, and your family.

    3. Nothing can be done for the children of vets exposed to an herbicide agent containing dioxin until congress sees fit to compensate them. They’re the ones holding things up not the VA. The VA can only do what congress directs them to do by law. Congress holds the purse strings and they’re the legislating part of our government. The money for vets and their children can be found very easily. Cancel the F-35 project that is projected to be 1 trillion dollars over budget for the life of the program.
      Look the deal has always been those of us who serve, that’s our part, those who don’t your part is to pay for these wars. Well the public hasn’t kept up their part of the bargain. We vets are a part of that cost no matter how long we live. Demand the government increase taxes to pay for these wars of greed because that is the right thing to do.

  3. Agent Orange was sprayed not only at the DMZ but also on Nike Bases in Korea during the Vietnam Era. Those veterans should be and must be covered.

    1. @Dr. Robert Laity – I totally agree Brother. No matter where this carcinogenic material was sprayed, if our Government had a hand in dispersing this herbicide, then yes, all Veterans should be covered.

  4. @91Veteran & namnibor,
    Don’t forget about how Congress, usually without anyone knowing until afterwards, passes THEIR pay increases.
    Or, how about giving free medical, housing, food allotments etc. to the illegal immigrants crossing the borders unannounced!
    The VA surely does “…pick and choose what laws and regs…” they want to follow. We see that on almost a daily basis!

  5. Especially when Obama allocated a chunk of Choice $$$ for Syrian Refugees, which is an open checkbook to all those in Northern Africa that are just leaving to leave…instead of Veterans receiving true non-bullshit ‘Choice’, and with no expectation of a PAYGO offset on that one either. That’s but one recent example of seeing and smelling through what’s really going on.
    The VA simply picks and chooses what laws and regs they want to follow…for that moment. Out of control and rogue, the VA.

  6. I dunno if I am understanding this correctly.

    The VA screws up in interpreting a law, so rather than congress explaining common sense to the VA, congress is proposing a new law?

    I suppose if the VA needs things in black and white so they can appropriately care for veterans…so be it.

    Why is it though the VA needs it spelled out exactly what congress intended? They manage to always find the gray area when it comes to a question of rehiring a director who committed T&A fraud. They find the gray area when allowing directors to steal thousands in moving expenses. They find the gray area when paying a thug to sit at home after beating a veteran to death.

    Regardless, Wells is correct. Veterans medical care and benefits should be removed from the PAYGO excuse and given the same priority as was given for funding to send those veterans into battle. Requiring PAYGO rules has been a bullshit excuse used by both parties in congress for years whenever they didn’t want to provide funding for medical care for those they sent to battle.

    Its been a shocking, disgraceful excuse because veterans can clearly see through it every time government magically comes up with billions for someones pet causes.

    Free Obamaphones, illegal alien resettlement, green energy scams, over budget weapon systems, etc.

    Every time I heard that PAYGO crap from a congressman, senator or administrative flunky in the 90s I wanted to puke. And hoped I was aimed in their direction.

    1. PAYGO was passed in 2010. Until congress gives the Sec of the DVA the power to fire these people they won’t be going anywhere. When Shinseki came in he wanted to replace many of the good ole boys but congress wouldn’t act. They have underfunded the DVA to the point of where some of the VAMC’s are failing. The repubs want to privatize it. The infrastructure of the VA is getting bad just like the infrastructure of our country. But the VA still provides excellent healthcare for the most part. I live in Nevada and we have a good VAMC here and that’s because of Senator Reid, actually we got 2 hospitals built for vets. It just needs to be fully staffed. That won’t happen until get rid of this congress.

      1. Rather than come on here spewing your leftist bullshit why not go back to ThinkProgress where nobody will check your lies.

        Its an easy search to see that PAYGO was first enacted in 1990.

        2010 was when Obama signed those PAYGO rules into law.

        As for underfunding and Dingy Harry…he finally no longer defiles congress with his presence, which is certainly good for the country.

        The VA has not and will never be underfunded as long as they have money for bonuses, projected at around $180 million this year, hiring 127 interior designers full time and millions for art projects.

        The VA wasted money on many things because their priorities have been so screwed up, caring for veterans is way down on their list.

      2. PAYGO expired in 2002 the same year as the benefits were taken away from Bluewater vets. The PAYGO law we’ve been discussing as it pertains to Bluewater was passed in2010, but I can see you have a hard time following the subject matter. When people resort to demeaning or denigrating remarks it shows they have no knowledge of the subject matter, that’s why they resort to name calling, it’s all they know. You are a perfect example of what has gone wrong in our country.

      3. Your reply to mine about PAYGO being passed in 2010 is easily taken to mean it did not exist prior to then.

        Your writing clarity needs serious improvement, as does your honesty.

  7. Here’s an interesting article out from, “” today titled;

    “Trump Signs Executive Order on Federal Hiring Freeze”

    Not only that, he’s also stopped “wage increase(s)!

    Also, from “Political Madness” is this video titled;

    “Federal Government Employees Relocating: Jason Chaffetz “Why Are They In Washington???”

    Jan 23, 2017 (2:23 minutes long)
    He’s submitted a bill to relocate many of the agencies. According to Rep. Chaffetz, taxpayers are billed tens of BILLION’s of dollars each year to “house”, (private residence and business offices), the employees in Washington. His theory is to spread the wealth around the country. Sounds reasonable.

    Here’s something y’all might not be aware of. Did you know George Soros was sponsoring and paying for over 50 protesters groups?! True! One was even connected to “HAMAS” and other RADICAL Muslim groups.
    Check out this video from “Real News” via “RT” from today.

    “F#cking Soros That Corpse Wants To See Our Country Burn In Leftism”

    Jan 23, 2017. (8:41 minutes long)

    1. Hey Elf,

      Did you happen to hear about the following. Nuke was launched toward Washington via Sub just off the east coast. During the time Brexit was being considered and voted upon.

      From RT: ” Fallon dodges questions on whether Britain fired a Trident nuke missile towards US
      Published time: 23 Jan, 2017″

      From BBC: “Trident: Defence Secretary refuses to give test missile details”

      “Theresa May refuses to say whether she was aware of ‘Trident nuclear missile failure”

      1. Yea, I heard about that. Only I read where it was headed towards Florida.
        At least it wasn’t armed!

    2. Right about the time Obama was off playing golf in Hawaii and Hillary was spending her time in McCain’s state of Arizona.

      1. Of Course that is also about the time all the Presstitutes where pushing rhetoric on North Korea’s successful test of a Submarine launched missile.

      2. Also about the time that the FBI was deciding not to indite Hillary and Bill Clinton was holding his meeting on the runway.

      3. “Abandon EU Army plans or lose US Nato support, Trump ‘orders’ Brussels”, 01/23/2017

        “LONDON/WASHINGTON – Months after calling the Belgian capital city “a hellhole”, US President Donald Trump is expected to demand from Brussels to abandon its plans for an EU Army if it wants the US to continue its support for Nato.

        Senior British officers serving at the Pentagon have been briefed that one of the new administration’s top priorities will be to “sweep away” plans championed by Germany and France, a British daily reported quoting its sources as saying.

        “We have been told quite clearly that, in an environment in which the political temperature in Eastern Europe is high and fiscal pressure on budgets is increasing, there can only be one joint force and that is Nato.

        More At: “”

  8. I remember 35 years ago when VA said no veterans except Operation Ranch Hand veterans were exposed to AO. Most of the country of S.Viet-Nam was sprayed with AO. Sec. of Defense McNamara and LBJ thought it was a good way to force the villagers out of the countryside and into the cities so they wouldn’t be feeding the insurgents, (Viet Cong) The whole damn country was contaminated with AO and everything grown and harvested over there now has dioxin in it. It takes about 100 years for dioxin to decay. VA saying that dioxin didn’t get into the inland waterways over there is just another one of their downright lie!

    1. @Dennis – Aryl Hydrocarbon Receptor (AhR)- TCDD [Dioxin] has a half-life of approximately 8 years in humans, although at high concentrations, the elimination rate is enhanced by metabolism. The health effects of dioxins are mediated by their action on a cellular receptor, the aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR). “”

      If taken the liberty to list quite a few site about dioxin. Be prepared for science, and some are in laymen terms. I found these site to be a good starting point for research and to detoxify your body. Visit the following;











      The above information is not medical advice. Please talk with your Primary Care Provider to discuss dioxin detoxing methods, modalities, processes, or procedures. But please, take some action, and don’t rely only on medical providers advice who work for the VA. Because of the issues occurring in the VA, it is up to you to do your due diligence for proper and effective medical treatment.

      1. You can’t detox dioxin you were exposed to during Viet Nam. The damage was done long ago and it damages you at the cell level. Dioxin only breaks down under ideal conditions.
        Everything you want to know about dioxin is in the dioxin reassessment, I believe about 1994 or there abouts. There’s also a newer one that came out in early 2000. We’ve known of the dangers of 2,3,7,8TCDD for a very long time, long before we used it in Viet Nam and around the world.

    2. That was the Reagan admin that said that. They proved it by altering the science surrounding dioxin. The Ranch hand study is a fraud for the most part. Then to add insult to injury Reagan fixed the AO lawsuit on behalf of the corporations, sticking it to exposed vets.

  9. Benjamin — Your site has done a few hick-ups in last 15 minutes, the numerical comment tally is now accounted for but it was back to normal 15 minutes ago then it became -0- and few more minutes back to regular count…FYI in-case this is what the VA has spent huge $$$ in upgrading their Public Affairs Hacking Dept…not so much the medical side of things?! 🙂 All is fine on my system at this end.

    1. @Namnibor , @Benjamin Krause, JD – I don’t trust these people. Ben, has there been any attempts to break into your database in order for the VA to find out the true identities of those posting on your site? On my end, I feel very comfortable with my privacy and security software. These people are ruthless. And, if I find out I’ve been tapped, this for sure with set me off more than ever. Thanks.

      1. I have had problems with getting a blue screen at times. My security software is working and the only time i am getting problems is when i blog on this site. I having been doing my normal surfing the web and no problems. Someone is trying to hack this site i belief. They say if your hacked your hard drive starts spinning and will not stop. Haven’t experienced that yet, just weird coming on blog with screen not wanting to come up.

      2. @ANutterVet — Part of that was my rather dark sardonic humor, with a good dose of paranoia for good measure. My security is great as well but as you well-know, nothing is 100% fool proof. As great as my own measures are in-practice, last Spring I was victim first time to identity theft. M/C zero liability reimbursed me after I had to jump through all kinds of hoops and file police report and fax documents. Interestingly, that account had *just* been changed to the new chip cards, which were supposedly safer…found out quite differently from the detective taking my report.
        I even use an RFID protectant wallet. Crazy world we live in and no, I would not put it past the VA and it’s Disruptive Behavior Committees to attempt to try to screw with Veterans wishing to help advocate real positive changes at the VA for Veterans.

        However, I did not wish to incite anyone’s own personal paranoia, no evidence of such. Probably “little cox” AFGE just protecting his fat cookie jar that has the word “Veterans” rubbed mostly off.
        Ben’s site probably just having a few minor technical glitches on the hosting end.

      3. @Namnibor – Thanks for the reassurance. Like you I don’t trust these people. Not even as far as I can expel a heavy laden gaseous exchange, with thick vaporous characteristics that causes the swampy smell to linger. I’m going to jar this stuff and give it to my VA PCP’s for their birthday, labeling it as a breath of fresh air. When I hand it over to them, I’ll say honesty but sarcastically, “Thank you for your service.”

      4. @Namnibor – In a short period of time we’ll be able to compile a book that contains jokes and slogans for sale. You got laughing Namnibor. And dang nam it, the VA doesn’t give out Depends for these types of incidences. Laughing, coughing, peeing, and farting at same time. LCPFMAO Evidence Based Criteria.

      5. @namnibor, @ANutterVet, the reason i would not put it past anyone of these Veteran employees is because Ben is probably has been a real pain in their side or other body part. Lol! Bens articles are informative and i think they really hate that. He has changed things for a lot of Veterans.

        We would probably be number two on list with are honest stories and giving advice and information on how to solve problems in the va system. They wouldn’t like it, can’t say it threatens their job security because the majority of the time they can get away with anything criminal.

        They can’t just be a decent human being to another human who is in need. Don’t think it is paranoia, when it is the truth of the situation being at their end of abuse. I know there are Veterans who have trust issues and some lost in their traumas and do suffer from paranoia symptoms. God help them.

        If you have lived in their abuse then it is a different story because they have lost their credibility with you. Once lost it is a hard thing to get back.

      6. @Ex va – R U in need of some extra jars? I found out a way to bill both Veterans and Private Sector insurance companies. I learned it from a comptroller who still works at a VA Office. We do pretty well raking in some extra monies. I’m thinking about giving the information away to help other Veterans to get compensated because the VA will not pay them. I already found a supplier of GMO farmers who grow kidney beans that creates even more gas than regular kidney bean. And, Beano is ineffective in stopping the gas build up.

        The above information is for entertainment purposes only. If you think this is true, then you’re truly a dumb ass. Point proven.

      7. Hey y’all, Obama got away with blaming everything on Bush and the Russians.
        Why don’t we blame this “hick-up” on Obama and all the libertard’s out there.
        I think Ben will get it straightened out soon!

  10. @Big Biz, diabetes type 2 is on list associated with exposure to AO. Go on to dept. of veterans affairs and bring up list for AO exposure.

  11. In 1974-75 I was assigned to the. “Motor Pool”where the herbicides (agent orange) was maintained and transferred. At one point I actually had these chemicals all over my clothes & hands. These assignments were for 72-hrs per assignment. This went on for six(6) months. Should I be concerned about my current medical conditions i.e.diabetes type 2 as well as “high blood pressure”,cholesterol etc.???

    1. @Big Biz – Here is a link for you to visit. “”
      Good like.

    2. @Big Biz — Also, if you have not already checked-out another very informative website called “HADIT dot com”, it would behoove you to do so and use the search option to search specific topics pertaining to what Veterans before you or currently have for experience with VA. Tons of helpful folks and information over there as well. Learned everything I needed for filing both VA and SSDI Claims years ago and it’s still a great resource.

  12. @Ex va – I’ve been thinking about you my Brother. How is your pain level today? I’ve been getting kicked around due to the increase in humidity, that then causes more pain and muscle spasms.

    Update – VA called today. Again going around circles. Social Worker said that she didn’t know why she was contacting me. I said to her, “well then why are you calling me if you don’t know why your calling?” I’m not going around these circles anymore with the VA. I’ve had it with their runarounds. I’m going to continually repeat this, “I’m tired of their dirty science?”

    Overall, the VA reminds me of the NFL’s issue with Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy [CTE]. CTE is a degenerative brain disease caused by repetitive brain trauma. The trauma triggers progressive brain-tissue degeneration, including the build-up of a protein called tau [according to Boston University’s Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy]. The tau protein is consider as a killer protein. CTE plagued football player for years, and the NFL industry leaders wouldn’t even recognize the problem, even though they knew there were problems with brain injuries by repetitive trauma to the brain.

    Even though the NFL knew about repetitive brain trauma, they were more concerned about big bucks. The NFL industry put the Nation’s most celebrated Sunday pastime [do you wanna watch some football], well ahead of the health and welfare of their own: the NFL football players. These professional football players made the industry billions of dollars, therefore the NFL put CTE under the carpet. They NFL didn’t want to deal with the negative financial impact of CTE. Nor did the NFL want to educate its leaders on the devastating results of CTE [reprogramming or more training required].

    The VA has been sweeping issues under the carpet for a long time, and they are good at doing these deceptive practices. In the VA’s case, it’s about accountability, corruption, power, the negativity of evidence based criteria health modalities, practices, and protocols, nepotism, favoritism, bullying, mobbing of employee whistleblowers, which clearly adds to an increase of falling short by properly putting the priority level of healthcare issues on the top of the docket. The VA is plagued with insider power struggling bullshit, and dirty science hypotheses and theories.

    These issues clearly affect-effect the VA’s own: the Veterans in whom they are responsible to serve and to protect, and their immediate families [a broader definition and clarification needs to be determined by each individual Veteran], plus the Veteran’s registered service, therapy, emotional, and psychiatric animals.

    Whereas, it was and are the Veterans that protect(ed) the freedoms of this Country, so that its citizens can hopefully live a life of health, wealth, and happiness. Shouldn’t Veterans have the same?

    VA, it is as simple as this; support your own without reservation or restrictions. These are the Veterans who served their country honorably, in order to honorably serve you.

    1. @ANutterVet, this is what the va calls a Veteran falling thru the cracks. They are to ones to blame for this. You called and left your complaint and by the time it gets to the provider who is suppose to help you they do not do anything. So typical of there operations. This is how they deliver medical care. To not deliver it. To cause more injury or to allow suffering to continue. I am sorry you are being treated my heart goes out to Veterans who are not getting the help they need.

      The comparison to the NFL with their actions or lack of action concerning CTE’s is similiar to the va’s standing on delivery of healthcare. I really hope this stops. Politics is a part of this and big money. They are number two in financing agencies right behind department of defense. I feel Veterans do not have civil rights. Seems when you are put in the Veteran status you are lesser than a US citizen. How else could they treat us in such a matter?

      The pain is eased up some today. The bad days i hardly am able to do anything. Keep trying to do things, that is about all i can do. I may get some surgeries this year. Not thru va. Somet changes to try to alleviate pain. I get the spasms in back they are the worst. I think chronic pain does something to change the brain. I know i get angry easily and i use to not be that way. You are right it hurts our spouses and children and k-9 friends too.

      Keep on trying and do not let them get you down. Hopefully with this new leadership things will change. That is what i keep praying about.

      1. @Ex va – Glad your getting better relief today. I’m in double jeopardy. In order to possibly see if I can make it outside my residence, I have to take additional tabs of Oxycodone. That’s if it works. It all depends. The downside of doing this, is that my body will get use to taking more of these dam pain pills. I shared with my VA PCP that I don’t want to take more Oxycodone.

        The VA currently provides me with in home Physical and Occupational Therapies, due to my being weak and not feeling comfortable leaving my residence. They will not prescribe me any Carisoprodol [Soma- muscle relaxer], but they don’t mind if I take more Oxycodone. Dam dirty science again.

        Ever since being treated by the VA my health has deteriorated to the point where I can’t do the things that I use to be able to do [going out with my wife, training my K9, visiting with other family and friends, being able to go to VA appointments, . . .etc].

        Even though the VA provides me with in-home services, they still expect me to go in for my regular appointments. Now these people insult the intelligence that I have left. One speaks out of one orifice, then the other speaks out of another orifice. And, do you think they would review my records before contacting me? No, that’s too much work for the betterment of my healthcare.

        This type of asinine behavior needs to stop my Brother. Thanks for posting. It’s good to hear your getting some needed relieve. One day I’m going to jump up and down for your healthcare success with these rascals. It’s coming, wait for it.

      2. @ANutterVet, that makes no sense to put you on the medication that causes more problems. I am afraid of that medication i heard a lot of bad things. I will have one day a week where it is not excruciating but not much better. The mornings are the worse for me. Magnesium helps a little. Pain meds help a little. Don’t solve the problem, just masks it.

      3. @Ex va – When in Private Sector, I had decent health insurance that enabled me to go to Laser Spine Institute [LSI]. I was having severe sciatica that caused pain from my buttocks to my toes on one side. The staff at LSI is like day and night compared to the VA. Staff was really upbeat, and I had multiple meetings with the main physicians of the operating team. I felt very comfortable.

        The outcome was 100% successful. Did the VA care? They were absolutely not the slightest interested in the outcome. They could care less due to the procedure not being FDA approved. The VA would rather have me to suffer by not approving an additional operation by LSI, and by taking away medications that I was on before I entered the VA Healthcare System. The medication that I was on previously, gave me super relief which is also well documented.

        What does a Veteran expect from being treated by such incompetent book knowledge non reality practicing nincompoop neuron deficient snowflake trolls. This should be put on a poster in every VA Medical Facility so that Veterans can be warned.

      4. Ex va, you should write your experiences down as both a former VA employee and as a veteran trying to get care through the same VA.

        I imagine you would have some rather riveting testimony from an insider’s view on how badly some veterans were treated, only to face the same horrible treatment as a veteran.

      5. @91Veteran, @Ex va – Brother 91Veteran, I agree. Only if Ex va is up to it. If not, I completely understand. I say this because I want to make sure that I’m without error when I post on Ben’s Blog. Us Veterans go through enough, and we definitely don’t need any more re-training or -programming.

        Ex va, I didn’t put things together due to your handle on Ben’s Blog. I must have missed the post if you let others know of your previous dedicated employer that is watching your back: the VA. Do you mind sharing what you did to participate in helping Veterans. Whether your duties required you to deal directly with Veterans or not. I think you have a lot to share. No hold out ya hear? Only razzing you my Brother.

        I’m leaving up to youuuu, now tell me . . ., what ya gonna doooooo . . .? If I recall that’s an old Eddie Arnold song. I remember my father singing it for my moms. Very good hint to my age.

      6. ANutterVet, I didn’t mean for Ex va to write comments here. I meant for Ex va to put his/her experiences down in writing with the possibility of providing them as oral or written testimony to Trump or others at some point in the future…or not at all as Ex va desires.
        All veterans should do that.
        Writing something like that down actually helps some people in processing those experiences.
        Whether Ex va actually provides that to others is his/her choice. It might actually be helpful to have something to submit if the opportunity arises.

      7. @91Veteran – I agree. Didn’t mean to sound pushy. Plus, I understand that @Ex va is dealing with issues like myself. And yes, it is totally up to Ex va to handle the situation in the way he so desires. Thanks for bringing this up so that I could clarify. No disrespect to Ex va, you, or anyone else.

      8. No disrespect taken here ANutterVet. I just thought I was unclear in what I meant regarding Ex va’s comments.

      9. @91Veteran, i know a lot about them. Kept a log. I will keep trying to get help to help others. I wrote letters and i am not finished with this and i don’t know if i ever will be finished. I want people to know the truth behind the lies they create. I’ve lost all faith in the system because of their acts and crimes. I warn others and try to explain parts of the system that i understand to tell them how it really works. The va can do some good if they wanted to, but the majority of them choose not to do good for a Veteran. They know what and how to get away with it. There is some individuals that work in the system that do nothing but create damage. It is true. This is one of the few blogs that tells the truth without sugar coating it.

      10. That’s why I think your testimony would be so good. Detailed examples of how the VA really works.

        Unfortunately, I also think the VA would try hard to dismiss it as fake or anecdotal.

      11. @Ex va, @91Veteran – As for me, I don’t care what the statue of limitations may be that applies to the VA actions and behavior. This is one Federal Agency that needs to be reformed to establish a complete overhaul. And, the ones who have and still continue to cause the unnecessary pain and suffering of Veterans, should not be in any length of time, off the hook for their dangerous, premeditated, extreme deviant hostility towards the healthcare of Veterans, that are dependent in seeking help from the criminals that are employed by the VA.

        It’s time to really clean house, and if deemed necessary, build prisons modeled after Gitmo. And, to take as many prisoners as possible in order to create good jobs for Veterans with full benefits. It’s all about jobs isn’t it? We live in a capitalistic society right? Well then, Veterans can in turn take care of ex-VA employees in correctional facilities. Put the corrupt employees on trial, and if found guilty they immediately go into solidary confinement. Food will be bread and water. Also, during this time, they should be tortured by piping in scents that will make their salivary glands over react, in order to make them dribble from their mouths. Let them crave hunger like Veterans are craving help and relief from pain and suffering.

        I had to rant for a bit to fluff off the pile of frustration. As an investigative research biologist, I promise to continually speak out about the dirty science that continually occurs in the VA’s Healthcare System. And, adding a little bit of humor as a side dish. Enough already of the smug VA crazies.

        The above statement is not a threat to do harm to any VA employee. It is for entertainment purposes only. Even though many VA employees are pushing the envelope to a point that will cause more Veterans to band together for changes. We need the public to stand by us to help change the VA system. Where are the women? With all their energy and enthusiasm, it’s time for women to stand up for Veterans. Hey, hey, what do you say, Veterans deserve the right to be ok. Repeat again.

      12. @ANutterVet, my previous employer the va hates me to the point of threatening me when i worked at a specialized clinic. I worked with Veterans and worked in direct care, reports, analysis, whatever to keep a clinic working. Our clinic was the most efficient and effective in treatment in the service line, coordinating care and we did anything we could to help a Veteran and that was the wrong thing to do and we didn’t know that at the time. I do not have anything to do with the va anymore and i guess i was a threat to them. Never asked why they hated me so much. It was a lot of people who made my life difficult and i didn’t understand it in the beginning, i know now.

        I wouldn’t hurt a Veteran or a person for that matter. I feel everyone has to answer to a higher power and He sees and knows all. And i am so sick right now and need to be in His grace if possible. I’m not saying that i shouldn’t suffer in life, everyone does one time or another. I don’t like being as sick as i am.

        So, i do feel responsible even though i know i couldn’t really change much of anything when i worked there. Too corrupted. I feel failure even though all processes are manipulated. I made my reporting, talked to vaoig, directors, associate director who reallly despises me, chief of staff, Sec. of dept. of va, a lot of people over the years. A negligent doctor did have to pay some consequences, but not what justice would have warranted. It was some really bad things, i really haven’t talked a lot about it to anyone.

      13. @Ex va – I’m sorry for what these people did to you. You went through what is referred to as mobbing. My wife went through this as well, and after four years, she is only now getting a positive grip back into her life.

        It was bad. I watched her come home, and she was totally exhausted, and unsure of herself. They mobbed her on a daily basis. We lost our health insurance and was forced to cash in her retirement funds early, penalties included. My wife’s ex-employer until this present day is filled with corruption, nepotism, favoritism, bullying, and you name it.

        After 12 years of working there, they shamed my wife horribly because she didn’t fit in with their cliché. Sorry Brother, need to take a break, I do understand what your saying. It gets me upset, because we had a plan on working to get my health back on track. They could care less about spouses as well. Just like the VA. I still require a breather from this nightmare. Taking it now.

      14. @91 Veteran, i would do that and i am presently putting another complaint together. If that opportunity arises to define problems or correct the problems or just my testimony, if that would help someone i am all for that.

      15. @ANutterVet, the things i can’t get over is about is the loss of life. I have been trying to put that into God’s hands. There should be no statutes of limitations, like the criminal justice system. I just have been trusting God that is all i can do and keep doing the things He would want to be done.
        Bens’ blog and others humor helps others and the information shared gives me some hope. That is what i hope with this new leadership in the White House that change is coming. I hope we get to see it. Gitmo would be too good for some of them.

        With all your education have you thought about some kind of compensated work therapy? There are different programs like vocational rehab too? I don’t know about your disability, but with some they can set up telework from your home. You would have to call and get appointment over the phone with a CT or CWT provider. Maybe with new changes they would have a lot of job openings. That would be great.

      16. @ANutterVet, i apologize if i brought up bad issues for you and your wife when i wrote too much about myself. I shouldn’t have written all i did because i wasn’t thinking that it may hurt someone else with what i stated.

        Sorry, i was not thinking about others and it was selfish of me to do that. This stuff involves others and i feel awful about it all. Tried to stop abuses, but the system is so corrupt. I will keep trying because i owe others my life and that is what i believe God wants of me. I have been praying for you and your wife and i wish the best for you with your health and happiness. I have the best intentions and i am not one who wants to injure others in any capacity. I am truly sorry and probably cannot say that enough.

      17. @Ex va – Brother Ex va, you owe me no apology at all. When I read your post, I only took it as another Veteran, who cares about others, who informs Veterans of how the VA system truly works. Ex va, my wife and I do appreciate your thoughts, and this type of character says more about you then any expressed words.

        In no way shape or form was your post taken as being negative. It was you, only sharing what you know. We understand this, and there are no ill feelings on our end.

        Ex va, don’t be to hard on yourself. I believe that while you worked at the VA, you did all that you could possibly do to make things better, that in which you didn’t have total control over. It was those above you, in command that is, who jeopardized all of your good intentions. I believe this in my heart, so do yourself a great big favor, do the same.

        In this way, your mind will be free and clear, and your energy levels will not be zapped, so that when the opportune time comes to help another Veteran, you’ll be able to do so. Stand by your wife, keep your chin up, and try to walk as tall as you can. Minus that grim reaper; chronic pain and severe muscle spasms.

        I do understand your feelings, and I appreciated your sensitivity. This is what will make you really effective when a Brother or Sister come across your path, that will need your help.

        God bless you, ANutterVet who honors and appreciates another.

    2. If you want to see a blatant example of dirty science, do some research on the Research Advisory Committee.

      If I recall correctly, this committee was a veterans health committee that was mandated by congress to look into and fund independent research studies for all veterans.

      I believe the Research Advisory Committee did some amazing work for veterans, and the VA decided they couldn’t have sound science proving what veterans had claimed for years.

      Ben might have more details on this, but I believe the VA essentially re-wrote the committee’s charter making them worthless, or nearly so.

      1. @91Veteran – Thanks for letting me know about the Research Advisory Committee. I will definitely sink some time to evaluate this group. I never heard of them before. Learn something new every day. Thanks Brother.

  13. According to “The Horn News”, 23 Jan. 2017, President Trump is “… meeting with the union leaders this afternoon…”!
    I wonder if AFGE President “little” Cox will show!
    I wonder if he’ll have the balls to threaten President Trump as he did McDipshit…….

    According to the article, President Trump will be very busy this week. So far he’s done more than Obama has done in eight years.
    If y’all haven’t subscribed to “The Horn News”, I suggest it highly.

  14. I fall into a smaller group of exposed veterans but facing similar struggles as the Blue Water men and women. I was a C123 crewchief and never set foot in Vietnam but unfortunately Vietnam was brought to us here . C123s were the Ranch hand acft that sprayed AO and in 1972 they were assigned to 3 bases here in the US. Rickenbacker, Pittsburgh and Westover where I served for 9 years. 1982 these acft were phased out of the inventory and all but a few wound up at the graveyard in Az. What I find extremely appalling is the extent that the DOD and VA went to by destroying evidence to keep 1500-2100 of the flight crews and maintenance crews from receiving benefits. I was an 18 year old child and worked with many 30 year old plus Vets . Many health issues due to AO exposure didn’t surface for 20 or 30 years and would be amazed if there was even 500 of us left. Only by chance while compiling evidence for another VA issue did I discover that in 2015 the VA finally acknowledge that we were exposed. That is when I was able to make contact with Wes Carter a retired Major that has went Toe to Toe with the Denier scumbag Monsanto hack Murphy. Wes maintains a blog called C123 veterans Assn and I would recommend anyone to visit and check out the immense resources he has compiled. Hopefully President Trump will hold true to his campaign promises and truly take care of our Vets !

    1. @Gene Sivard – It is my hope, that you’ll get compensated for your exposure to this carcinogenic compound. In the meantime, please consider to faithfully take supplementation of powerful anti oxidants that are easily available; A [Beta Carotene], C, E, Zinc, L-Lysine, and many others. To determine what is best for you, Google “what are the most powerful anti oxidants to remove free radicals from my body.” This should give you a good start to know them and to see if they fit into your budget. As your probably aware, the VA doesn’t totally believe that anti oxidants are a viable source of protection from these unsatisfied tissue damaging compounds. The VA’s dirty science is enough already!

      1. Or Google, “what are the best supplements to detox my body of dioxins or herbicides.”

    2. Gene, As of April 28th, 2017 the VA out of St. Paul have granted benefits to 194 C123 Veterans. I’ve been following this matter closely since 2015. I’m a C123 Reservist Vet out of Rickenbacker and filed for Benefits at 8:30 AM back on June 19th, 2015 at the Cape Coral Vet Center in Florida ( the first day of the ruling). My benefits process has moved along well but it takes work. Since then, I’ve continued pushing on the matter of Retro-Active benefits along with addition of HyperTension to the Medical List. Wes Carter took his C123 Cancer website down last year so any updates I find I now pass to the Buckeye Wing Group. The VA does not track the ages of the C123 vets nor the average benefit compensation paid out. (it’s the government, I’m just glad they can count the applications received and approved in their IN BASKET). If you were a straight Reservist, you would not have known that benefits were being granted unless you saw a quick mention on FOX TV the weekend before the ruling when Senator Sherrod Brown and others were holding up the nomination of Shulken as deputy director unless Obama approved granting the C123 benefits. In 2015 141 Veterans applied and 47 were granted (I was one of them). In 2016 504 Veterans applied and 127 were granted… far in 2017, 95 Veterans applied and 20 have been granted. At this rate there will be approximately 230 to 240 C123 Veterans receiving benefits by 2018. (Remember that the original money ($45 million) set aside for this compensation was to support 350 Veterans receiving benefits out of the 2,100 guesstimate). Scanlon 907 CAMS-Radio (78 to 83)

  15. Question:
    Since Obama and McDipshit put Murphy in as head of VBA, can Trump fire his ass?

  16. This article places even more questions on why Obama and Ex Sec. VA McDonald were okay with placing Thomas Murphy as BVA when he is still a notorious Agent Orange Denier??

    My answer: ALL BY DESIGN by the Ratty Rats at the Insurance Agency called the VA.

    How about no more VA Non-Performance Bonuses and use THAT “Incentive $$$” as both leverage and to PAY OUR VETERANS THEIR DUE?????

    Rant Out. Raining out. Scuttled Skittle Snowflakes still melting-down. They are embarrassing themselves.

    1. Seems most issues today are by design and a multitude of harmful agendas. Every day seems to bring on new battles along with the never ending old ones, giving us plenty of opportunities to make new enemies for simply not wanting to jump on everyone’s band wagon to pacify them all. God forbid we air our own issues or dare to offend some communist, fascist, union, or some professional class, or some variety of activist.

      There are those Skittles and then body parts left in area of bad wreck and marbles on I-465 in Indianapolis, IN. Oh my! But then here we have the college kiddies, Catholic churches nuns, the far lefties, MoveOn cliques, Marx-feminist, man haters wanting to kill off all male children, proud and made heroes by media for attending the ridiculous protest over Trump in DC. Claiming it was all peaceful and merely for unity or solidarity over some women’s movements or whatever. Would any of them go march or help veterans? Hell no. Not in my area ruled by the far left and bowing right who are both guilty of many things equally. Can we get the media they have and can attain easily? Hell no, we are the enemy apparently.

      Most citizens here don’t vote. The majority doesn’t care about much unless it affects them or their nepotism or purses/wallets. We can bring up GMOs or chemical used in AO being used on farm fields. or why foreign nations are allowed to use our farm lands for their test plots, while those in the area face all kinds of pregnancy issues, illnesses, and etc., that are exactly what veterans are dealing with over AO. Oh but all that is supposed to be secretive and never ask questions about it or else piss off the government, colleges in cahoots with it all, the farmers, down to the Anti-Fascist calling us trying to do some good fascist, with them out to do us real physical harm just like Soros and Hollywood types want to happen to us with independent minds.

      Then to top it all off Monsanto, Bayer, by design, with the governments sanctioning, Big Agri, have created, developing genetically engineered crops resistant to all other herbicides. Ending resistance to AO main ingredients? Now what will that create while all these stupid distractions and mob rule, rioting, is going on that we are supposed to think is all good and needed. Don’t point this stuff out because I’ll be a “hater,” “heretic,” or “racist” by the Trumpophobes, by the right and left, by well paid farmers, all sorts of business types, college kiddies, or Madonna or Ashley Judd the prostitute. Then all the idiots and activist, silent moms wonder why all these Autism, increase in birth defects, and other afflictions are happening to today’s kids/babies? Sadly there is no cure for stupid, cognitive dissonance, being a blind uncaring activist, the commies, being socially engineered, marching and tearing stuff up and they don’t know why they are there, just for fun, or for people who thinks taking children to such events like in DC and having a ten year old why he hates Trump and etc., is fine and dandy.

      It’s all “by design” we are constantly treated like crap, ignored, and forced to play the run-around games till our time to kick-the-bucket comes along. And not seeing much change at all. Just more censoring, cover-ups, retaliation, taxes, distractions, put-offs, being totally ignored, and more stupid laws.

      Veterans did march today in Indianapolis but local news didn’t have much to say or cared to cover that event. Guess it wasn’t perverted or twisted enough, not enough Hollywood. While the new governor Holcomb made it more difficult to attain pain meds and such for vets and more difficult to get proper treatment from civilian care due to the Vet Brand I guess we negatively carry though life. And he is supposed to be a vet.

      This social critic is also done with this rant. What a mess we have to deal with on many fronts.

      1. @T – Well stated my Brother. A post that clearly describes the morally corrupt and bankrupt practices performed by greedy selfish trolling verts. Shamefully, Repubs, conservative Dems, and Veterans are hiding but participating in this group as well.

  17. Besides Agent Orange, a variety of herbicides were also used in Vietnam; Agents White, Purple, Pink, Green, and Blue. These chemical compounds are referred to as “Rainbow herbicides.”

    The VA’s rhetoric truly indicates that it is “putting its head in the sand while embracing the flat earth scientific theory of centuries ago.” [“”]

    This Federal Agency [VA] is plagued by dirty science. And, the intentional manipulation of scientifically proven facts pertaining to these dangerous and life threatening compounds of herbicidal formulas, will continually to affect-effect the lives of Veterans for years to come. Many of our political leaders have continually downgraded and ignored the debilitating health affects-effects of these dangerous chemicals, that have without a doubt, has been proven to wreak havoc on the human body.

    The VA’s mindset is to put money first before the health issues of Veterans, who put their lives on the line for the protection and freedom’s of our Country. Conclusion: A continuance of uncompassionate users taking advantage of, and causing more pain to the lives of Veterans, and to the lives of Veteran’s loved ones. Enough already.

      1. @Bill – Wasn’t that Westmoreland son named James Ripley II? One of the quotes, of deceased 4-Star Army General Westmoreland, was “War is fear cloaked in courage.”

        I like to add, ” . . . and not solving the health issues of Veterans that participated in such actions.”

      2. It was Admiral Zumwalts’ son, his son was impacted by Agent Orange too. Lt. JG Zumwalt was in the Brown water Navy in the Delta and died from two kinds of cancers, and his son suffered with Down’s Syndrome. He wrote the book, “My Father My Son” which is excellent.

      3. @Gary – I was wondering why I couldn’t find anything pertaining to the death of Westmoreland’s son. Found plenty on the General though. I liked Zummy, allowed for beards so I immediately received a chit to do so. Thank you for posting.

      4. ANutterVet, I met the son and his son at Fuller School in Fayetteville, North Carolina in 1971 when my Mother was a Teacher’s Aid at Fuller. It’s where I first became aware of Special Olympics which the kids participated in. I came back from Vietnam in August, 1971 and was in the AMERICAL, 23rd Infantry Division. I burned shit my last two months.

      5. @Gary – I couldn’t find anything about Westmoreland’s son passing away. Where I previously lived, there was a road closely similar to the spelling of Westmoreland and believe it or not one named McNamara. Due to unusual circumstances when I was in the service, I was forced to be exposed to a life threatening situation where I was not safe from my own colleagues.

        To have a personal feeling of protection, I made specific weapons in which I currently have access to in every room where I reside. And, I was in denial of having PTSD for decades. Had no clue why I had nightmares, presenting actions showing clear signs of hypervigilance, when in a restaurant always being seated while facing the entrance door, insomnia to the point of only get 1-2 hour of sleep, episodes of anxiety and depression, lack of trust when I would assume any type of suspicion, not liking the color of maritime navy grey, disliking the sight of ships or caring less about visiting a sea port frequented with naval vessels, . . . etc..

        About those roads named after the military leaders, I avoided them like the plague. My mind would start to race even when I was in the proximity of these roads. Again, I didn’t understand why, after being Honorably Discharged and still younger than the drinking age, that I would numb my self with dark sweet 151 Rum and Black Russians. I had no dam clue what was happening to me. Since I started to shave at the age of twelve, I was able to grow a full beard at the age of fourteen, plus getting served without ever being carded. I had both, the worst by dealing with PTSD symptoms, and best by being able to get booze anytime that I wanted too. Anyway . . .

        Didn’t mean to sidetrack, but did you really burn poo for two months? I’d be gagging while stuffing my mouth with peppermint lifesavers, plugging my nose with pieces of cotton balls, plus adding a little swipe of Vick’s Vapor Rub below my nose to mask the stink. Phew, thanks for posting my Brother.

      6. Was it Westmorelands son or Admiral Zumwalt?

        I thought it was Zumwalts son that was badly affected by his exposures.

      7. @Gary – Or did I miss something that mean the same thing as burning shit? Just asking, you never know due to the happenings during that time period.

    1. Your comment brings to mind another thing I have been wondering for years.

      Why is it Agent Orange is the focus? Why not some of the other chemicals you mention?

      Can any of those other chemicals cause disease? Are they worse than Agent Orange? Were they used more heavily than Agent Orange?

      Are those other chemicals ignored in favor of Agent Orange because it would be more difficult to ignore health effects from those other chemicals?

      Imagine those veterans affected by Burn Pit exposure. Prove which toxin was present on the day you were exposed at a level high enough to cause disease.

      1. @91Veteran – You bring up good points. Fortunately, I wasn’t exposed, but it pisses me off how our compassionate Government can spend monies to support all sorts of women’s rights in other countries, but we can’t take care of our own: Veterans.

        All I know is this about dioxins [all Rainbow Herbicides], they are lipid soluble. That means that these vicious compounds are harder to release and expel from the biological active chemical bonds in our bodies. They all can cause many health issues, and can wreak havoc on our genes. Therefore, passing on unwanted traits to parents offspring. Dangerous stuff my Brother.

    2. That’s the rainbow herbs. The law actually is an herbicide agent containing dioxin which there are many. Along with that there are many substances used by the military that are dioxin forming substances, DDT for one.
      Actually AO is a non soluble herb. They used these herbs all over the pacific and in many places here in the US. Even the farming industry used them.
      The elephant in the room is the synergistic effect of these pesticides. Some, the DoD, MIC and many scientist don’t want people knowing about it. One thing you never do is mix insecticides and herbicides. But they used these pesticides all over on our base perimeters in country and out.

      1. @Van – Yes, dioxin is insoluble in water, and it only barely dissolves in other dangerous solvents. Herbicides with dioxin compounds should have never been used, due to it long lasting effects, and the damage that it causes in the intracellular level matrix of living organisms. Therefore, disrupting organic processes in eukaryote cells.

        Yes Van, I agree our Government knew all along about the devastating affects-effects when living organisms are exposed to this awful carcinogen. Unfortunately, due to the dirty science that is shoved into our minds, and the Government using the tactics of dumbing down Veterans and Americans, we have again had the wool pulled over our eyes. And, it still continues.

        This is common place when the Government realizes that if they accept responsibility, that they will have to pay a high price for their actions. I have watched many of friends deal with the consequences of being exposed to dioxin. And, as an Investigative Research Biologist that believes in protecting and causing no harm to life, these actions by our so called “compassionate’ Government leaders really pisses me off.

        I despise dirty science. It’s wrong, and it is used to deceive those who don’t understand, and who do not have and or don’t believe that they can refuse an order. I consider myself to be very fortunate. At a very early age, about 5 years old, my parents infused me with many children science books. By my mid-elementary years in school, my mind couldn’t get enough of science.

        I have taken a personal oath, to speak out about dirty science when it permits. I do however, have to be careful not to get too emotional due to my health conditions. Van, thanks for speaking out. Since the VA will not take of its own, we need to take care of each other the best we can. Keep speaking out. God bless you my Brother.

      2. I started running into what you call dirty science 20 or 25 years ago and it’s definitely a huge problem. I was researching neurodegenerative disease and the island of Guam. I learned to look at the protocols and the researchers for all the biases. If a scientist’ work is primarily for the government and most often finds for the government you may have a problem. You can say that for industries as well. A nuclear physicist I did research with gave me some great advice,”follow the money Van”. It has served me well, because it’s all about the money.

      3. @Van – Totally agree! Especially if the profit margins or low cost of operations increases revenue. Even though, there is a health issue at hand that has effected people, other animals, and the environment. Look what happed to the delta in New Orleans, Everglades, and now the big parking lots created in some states with all the rigs in those areas. Lets not forget about fracking. I hear you loud and clear, “follow the money.”

      1. @Crazy elf- Here’s the full title of the article that Bill’s link takes you to and I remember that article from the last time around 2015 when the VA was told to take care of AO Veterans properly as well…great article.

        “FOIA Documents Reveal Agent Orange Dioxin, Toxic Dumps, Fish Kills on Okinawa Base. Two Veterans Win Compensation, Many More Denied”

    1. @Bill,
      I googled it. All I got was for Okinawa and basically for Navy service members.
      I was Army. “Boots on Ground” IN Vietnam. Stationed in “II Corps”, Central Highlands.
      The Army sprayed that crap all over up there.
      Drank water from a well which had absolutely no purification system whatsoever. When the wind was right, guess what happened. It came right back at us.
      What I wrote earlier is factual. Many vets were stripped of anything related to Agent Orange presumptive.
      I have proof. VA won’t budge on anything.
      As a matter of fact, I was, and have been, on the “Agent Orange Registry” since its beginning, (mid ’70’s)!
      The only problem is, the VA healthcare providers claims they can’t access my military medical and/or Personnel Records from both military services!

      1. Hey Elf,

        If you Google the URL “with the quotes” it will display the link in the top of the Google search results.

  18. I’m not sure when, or how long ago, the article came out. I do remember reading about how veterans, who had disabilities related to AO, were stripped of it. I don’t remember how many were affected, I do know it was a lot!
    I have, in my military medical records and VHA medical records, proof positive of multiple ‘conditions’, (9 out of the 15+), related to AO. Yet, my ‘conditions’, which gives me compensations, does NOT state it. Nor, has the VA admitted it. Except for one, (1), VHA physician putting them in my records.
    Is, or will, VA be willing to give veterans “the benefit of the doubt”, as set forth by law, compensations for all the illnesses AO does to us?

    So far I’ve met a few vets who claim to receive compensation for AO. Yet, when I ask to see their records. Not one veteran is receiving compensation directly linked to AO.
    It’s recorded in such a way, where they receive disabilities for the “presumptive”- NOT for Agent Orange!

    When will VA admit to this??????

    1. PS,
      Plus, with Tom Murphy (“Agent Orange Denier”) in charge. It looks like no one will receive anything related to Agent Orange!

      1. That’s the other issue with presumption. At some point in the future, will some bureaucrat pull an opinion out of his ass and claim that disease is no longer related to an exposure?

    2. In some respects, the VA will never admit to a presumed illness being directly connected to exposure X.

      By presuming disease X is related to exposure Y, there is always the question there of “Does exposure Y REALLY cause disease X”?

      By leaving that question there, it insures there will always be plenty of money for research, and a little money to satisfy veterans.

      If they declared “exposure Y absolutely causes disease X”, then there is no reason to research it further. There is also no wiggle room for any veteran claiming disease X, and being able to prove exposure to Y.

      Declaring a disease presumed caused by exposure years after the fact would have also weeded out many veterans already killed by that disease.

      These are the same people who blatantly lied that there were no health effects in those who had radioactive depleted uranium in their bodies from the first Gulf War.

      My question is, where are the VSOs in this?

      The other nasty result of congress using the PAYGO rules is that it often puts veteran against veteran, and the VSOs happily play that game. They use the excuse that if they fight for Gulf War vets to have disease X presumed service connected, then PAYGO rules require taking money away from providing Vietnam veterans treatment for disease Y.

      As I said in my other comment, it’s a disgusting excuse.

  19. “VA Secretary David Shulkin can rescue these sea service veterans with the stroke of a pen. Reversing the exclusion policy makes sense and is supported by science. Shulkin can show that he is serious about toxic exposure and start his tenure on a high note. Otherwise, he will continue to face more Congressional scrutiny and litigation.”
    ^Did anyone else see this coming with the VA appointing BVA Tom “Agent Orange Denier” Murphy as BVA Chief? Anyone second guessing that his remaining beliefs in junk science that AO is as healthy as the drink astronauts drink, TANG, would come to bite Veterans in the ass again? I certainly knew this day would come to pass. What’s BVA Murphy’s take on this now in 2017? Was the bolting down the deck chairs with the V.A. Titanic in hiring Tom “agent orange denier” Murphy as BVA Chief all part of the continuing plan of denial all along?

    1. Today’s article shows how politics INDEED affects Veterans and Veteran Benefits. Leahy allowing that “offset” to quietly die is but one proving politics as usual definitely affects Veteran Benefits and Veterans. Remember that poo from the VA Meat Grinder always slides downhill onto Veterans.

      On a side note, I saw in news where a truckload of red skittles candy broke loose from a truck onto a highway in the rain in Midwest. Were those actually Butthurt Snowflakes finally melting down after their weekend of violence? The all red skittles were on way to be made into cattle grain due to an electrical failure that left all those red skittles without their signature “S” for Skittle did not get printed on the candies. Or was that “S” for Snowflake? Hmmmmm?

      1. I’m sorry but to blame Leahy is wrong. First off they didn’t have the votes in the Senate. They had 46, 12 repubs and 34 dems. Secondly The congress is breaking the law when demanding an offset. The 2010 PAYGO law says veterans programs are exempt, but repubs are demanding an offset. Also, Miller head of the house veterans affairs committee has not allowed the bill to come to the floor of the house for a vote. It’s been the repubs all along that first took the benefits away, then aren’t allowing them to be reinstated. Put the blame where the blame belongs so vets get the truth.

      2. @Van – Personally, both sides of the major political parties have been bullshitting and screwing over Veterans [some being Veterans themselves], ever since the inception of combining three agencies into one which makes up the current VA. When health, family, or other that arise that negatively affect-effect Veterans, they should be HONORALBY ADDRESSED. The only question should be, “how do we fix the issue(s) to protect the health of those that served our Country well?” Is this too much to ask? The money is there. Enough already.

        Even the Main Stream Media [MSM] outlets are doing Veterans a disservice, by not keeping the VA issues in the forefront of their reporting.

      3. ANutter Vet- I agree to a certain extent. I was responding to the issue of Bluewater vets. But you can also blame the chronic underfunding to the repubs as well. IAVA determined that the DVA needed over 60 billion dollars to bring it up to speed.
        The infrastructure needs, doctors, nurses, staff, modernization and more is needed. This underfunding has totally made the DVA dysfunctional.
        Then the Sec of DVA needs the power to hire and fire the dead wood. Shinseki wanted to bring in his own people but congress wouldn’t allow it. Then when he put in the 3 new presumptives his days were numbered. The disfunction at the DVA preceded Shinseki.
        I know the dems are partly at fault because they’re spineless. I believe they should have pushed the bluewater vets benefits through the second Shinseki took the helm.
        The fact is the repubs are demanding an offset and that goes against the PAYGO law of 2010. Repubs took Bluewater vets benefits away. Those are facts.

      4. Van, if you understand PAYGO rules, you would understand Leahy could have easily killed this bill, which is why both parties like using them as an excuse.
        PAYGO makes it damn tough to get anything done when 1 or 2 politicians can disagree with a funding source, kill the legislation and leave little fingerprints on it.

        Both sides do it. Leahy happens to be the one who disagreed with the funding source. Any numbers of others would have their name on it all depending on the source of funding proposed to pay for it.

        Again, it is a disgusting practice, and it results in veterans being held hostage at the whim of 1 or 2 people.

        If you read the linked Stripes article in Ben’s post, you see there were 335 House members of both parties that agreed with the legislation before Leahy killed it.

        Ultimately you end up with politicians using tricks like adding this legislation to other legislation that they MUST PASS like defense spending. Its a pathetic way for congress to act.

      5. 91veteran- Leahy is a Senator not a member of the House. He disagreed with the offset. There should be no offset per PAYGO. 335 members of the House sponsored the bill and only 46 in the Senate. Jeff Miller, head of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, wouldn’t release the bill for a vote. It was stuck in committee which means that’s where it sits until the committee chairman releases it for a vote, that didn’t happen. The process now starts over for the most part. At least Leahy didn’t stay anonymous, he manned up. Leahy has been a friend to vets.
        But the fact still remains the repubs took the benefits away from Bluewater and they and they alone are stopping vets from their benefits with the demanding of an offset.
        That is against the PAYGO law which says veterans programs are exempt.
        Your post makes no sense.

      6. I am familiar with who Leahy is.

        He stopped the bill because, as you stated, he disagreed with the offset.

        The real bone of contention here is with whoever demanded the legislation comply with PAYGO, as you also said.

      7. 91veteran- That would be Grassley, he demanded the offset. It wasn’t just Leahy. that didn’t agree. What is the sense of passing laws if you don’t uphold them? This congress is as corrupt as it can get and veterans need to know the truth, not the bullshit.

  20. John Wells is absolutely correct on this.

    Agent Orange, and the more toxic Agent Pink were also stored at several locations on Okinawa during the late ’60’s through the ’70’s. How many thousands of potential exposures occurred there, due to improper stowage? Or seepage from cracked barrels into the water supply?

    We all know that Agent Orange is one of the ten deadliest substances on the planet. The US government however, seems to still be somewhat denying proper screenings and compensation for those who were exposed to it.

    Then, once screened and diagnosed – – – the paperwork and ticking time clock of the VA waiting game begins . . .

    We all know how fun that is.

    1. I personnaly saw AO stacked in quonset huts on Okinawa in 1975 and 1976 and . I so saw it used to defoliate our secure perimeter there. I PRAY I will not get sick from so many tears ago.

      The government says AO was not there yet disability awards have been awarded to vets for AI exposure who served on okinawa.

      Not many but a few

      1. @Bill – Yes. Saw quite a few barrels stacked at MCAS Futema during ’74 and ’75. And I am reasonably sure that Camp Hansen and Camp Schwab had a few as well.

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