zoolander dance monkey dance

VA Demotes Combat Veteran For NFL ‘Dance Monkey Dance’ Facebook Comment

VA demoted a combat veteran after he published a “dance monkey dance” critique on Facebook criticizing NFL players for kneeling during the national anthem.

Providence regional office manager Stephen Pina was demoted last Friday following a brief investigation into statements he made during his personal time from his personal computer on Facebook while watching an NFL game.

Pina was reportedly upset that NFL players on the Patriots refused to stand for the anthem. Following the NFL players’ exercise of their apparent free speech to protest the anthem, Pina took to Facebook and demanded the players “dance monkey dance.”

Pina claims his comments were not intended to be racist. Instead, he claims he meant the players should do what they are paid to do, not make political statements, but “dance.” So, while the NFL plays assert their right to political speech in a critique of the government, one government worker’s political speech against their political speech got Pina into trouble.

“It was not meant to be a racist comment, and if it was taken as such that’s regrettable,” Pina said. “At heart, it wasn’t intentional. … It wasn’t meant to be that way.”

Was this racist or offensive speech? Or, was this Pina’s critique of NFL players engaging in political speech before a football game? Who has more of a right to speak their mind in this context, a private citizen on Facebook or millionaire NFL player on national TV?

Dance Monkey Dance In Pop Culture

For some context, the phrase “dance monkey dance” has been used regularly as a catchphrase to poke fun at the target of the statement for lacking intelligence. As an attorney, my first stop in assessing Pina’s reference was to see if I could find pop culture references or if any reference phrase “dance monkey dance” were plainly racist.

According to Wikipedia, the phrase “dance monkey dance” originally surfaced in a movie called The Cape Town Affair, in 1967. It was made popular as a catchphrase following an SNL skit “Dance, Monkey, Dance!” in the 1980’s.

Since that time, it has been used in numerous movies and skits as a joke making fun of unthinking humans. Zoolander is a recent example where Ben Stiller is playing a dimwitted model dressed up like a monkey with cymbals and ordered to “dance monkey.”

A similar derivative, “Dance, Monkeys, Dance” was used by author Ernest Cline in 2013 to describe the human race including whites and blacks and everything in between. Cline seems to intend the phrase’s use as a satirical critique of the humans.

In these instances, the phrase appears to be derogatory or artistic or comedic but not necessarily racist but a critique of the person’s intellect. Its use could certainly hurt someone’s feelings, though its use as a common catchphrase in pop culture erodes any assertion that use of the phrase is automatically racist.

However, the isolated term “monkey” has obviously been used in a racist manner.

In another Zoolander segment (above), Zoolander impersonates a monkey hitting a computer after coming out of blackface. Blackface is generally considered offensive, but is it offensive in the context of making fun of self-important runway models through satire?

Context matters when assessing these issues, especially for federal employees who have constitutional rights and protections to engage in political speech when offduty.

Reaction To Dance Monkey Dance

Nonetheless, the statements created a stir because the Patriot players happened to be non-white. The NAACP spoke out over the controversy.

VA quickly took action against Pina and demoted him, apparently concluding the phrase was used in an offensive or unacceptable manner.

“VA does not condone or tolerate such unacceptable and offensive comments from any of our employees,” said Curt Cashour, press secretary for the Department of Veterans Affairs, in an email to The Enterprise. “That’s why we have proposed demoting this employee and removing him from his management/supervisory role.”

Press secretary Curt Cashour said Pina has one week from the date of the proposed disciplinary action to respond. It will be interesting to see what Pina does.

As to “unacceptable” or “offensive” speech, Cashour is apparently referencing some restriction on 1st Amendment free speech enacted by VA that allows punishment statements that are hateful or racist.

Time will tell if VA is on the right side of this speech debate given the possible constitutional issues, the context of the statements and their use in pop culture, now.

Pina has been employed by VA for over 10 years. At Providence regional office, he supervised 157 federal employees and earned a salary of $120,000. This means he can afford an employment attorney, so I would expect to see VA explain their position in court at some point in the future.

More Perspective – Very Brief Online Research

Personally, after over 40 years on this planet, I have heard “monkey” used as a derogatory term or critique of a person’s intelligence or as a racist pejorative. Sometimes the speaker means it to have racial connotations but sometimes not, so it is prudent to evaluate the context of the statement.

A quick review of Google reveals numerous examples of the phrase being used in a derogatory manner or a racist manner, depending on the website.

“So easy a monkey can do it.” – 26,900,000 search results

Here are some companies, web pages, YouTube videos, or advertising associated with or using this exact quote:

“Dance monkey dance.” – 77,000 search results

Here are just a couple examples I could find using the actual phrase in question ranging from a video game to the Muppets.

Monkeys In Science

I have also heard the term used to describe federal employees not allowed to think while performing their jobs but instead only pushing buttons – – like a button pushing monkey.

This obviously relates to numerous experiments and exercises involving monkeys pushing buttons during language and learning experiments that most kids see in elementary school when introduced to kiddy “science.”

Racist Use Of “Monkey”

That aside, there is no question “monkey” is also used in a racist manner. We need to look no further into our past than all the various depictions of former President Barack Obama with big ears or with his face pasted onto a monkey body.

Sexual References Of A Person’s “Monkey”

There are also numerous pop culture references to “monkey” in the sexual sense, but I probably do not need to get into that, here.

Careful With Facebook Posts – Conclusion

In this context, given the phrase’s use in pop culture and context of the statement, it seems likely Pina did not intend the statement as a racist or overtly offensive statement.

Instead, I suspect he intended it as a critique of the NFL members’ political speech that is a critique of American policies and President Donald Trump before an NFL game.

I wonder who a judge would conclude has the greater right to free speech in this instance; the at-will NFL employee where policies prohibit the form of speech undertaken (NFL policy requires standing for the national anthem) or the federal employee with constitutional rights protecting their job and right to free speech while at home offduty?

My best guess is VA may be playing to demands for punishment due to bad press and the drive for political correctness over common sense that may cost taxpayers a lot if Pina’s 1st Amendment rights were violated.

Either way you come down on this issue, the important take away is that the government is always watching what you do and say on Facebook. So are your employers, including the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Be smart about what you post and know it could come back to bite you on the butt.





Check Out How YouTube Treats “Monkey”

Google MonkeyFollowing the publication of this article, I ran across another line of reasoning worth noting.

Google’s product YouTube promises to censor all racist and offensive videos from the platform. The image above is a YouTube generated image when I made an incorrect search on that platform using the wrong URL for the video.

Does YouTube mean I am a monkey for screwing up my video search?

Additionally, all those videos are still on the YouTube platform meaning Google does not believe use of the phrase “dance monkey dance” is inherently racist. The context matters.

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  1. Thanks for writing an article that defines what is permissible speech and what violates your Liberal Fascist Orwellian Hate Speech Codes that people in Europe are getting thrown in prison for violating.

  2. We will keep their lifespan short and their minds weak while pretending to do the opposite. We will use our knowledge of science and technology in subtle ways so they will never see what is happening. We will use soft metals, aging accelerators and sedatives in food and water, also in the air. They will be blanketed by poisons everywhere they turn. The soft metals will cause them to lose their minds. We will promise to find a cure from our many fronts, yet we will feed them more poison. The poisons will be absorbed through their skin and mouths, they will destroy their minds and reproductive systems. From all this, their children will be born dead, and we will conceal this information. The poisons will be hidden in everything that surrounds them, in what they drink, eat, breathe and wear. We must be ingenious in dispensing the poisons for they can see far. We will teach them that the poisons are good, with fun images and musical tones. Those they look up to will help. We will enlist them to push our poisons. “They will see our products being used in film and will grow accustomed to them and will never know their true effect. When they give birth we will inject poisons into the blood of their children and convince them its for their help. We will start early on, when their minds are young, we will target their children with what children love most, sweet things. When their teeth decay we will fill them with metals that will kill their mind and steal their future. When their ability to learn has been affected, we will create medicine that will make them sicker and cause other diseases for which we will create yet more medicine. We will render them docile and weak before us by our power. They will grow depressed, slow and obese, and when they come to us for help, we will give them more poison. “We will focus their attention toward money and material goods so they many never connect with their inner self. We will distract them with fornication, external pleasures and games so they may never be one with the oneness of it all. Their minds will belong to us and they will do as we say. If they refuse we shall find ways to implement mind-altering technology into their lives. We will use fear as our weapon. We will establish their governments and establish opposites within. We will own both sides. We will always hide our objective but carry out our plan. They will perform the labor for us and we shall prosper from their toil. “Our families will never mix with theirs. Our blood must be pure always, for it is the way. We will make them kill each other when it suits us. We will keep them separated from the oneness by dogma and religion. We will control all aspects of their lives and tell them what to think and how. We will guide them kindly and gently letting them think they are guiding themselves. We will foment animosity between them through our factions. When a light shall shine among them, we shall extinguish it by ridicule, or death, whichever suits us best. We will make them rip each other’s hearts apart and kill their own children. We will accomplish this by using hate as our ally, anger as our friend. The hate will blind them totally, and never shall they see that from their conflicts we emerge as their rulers. They will be busy killing each other. They will bathe in their own blood and kill their neighbors for as long as we see fit. “We will benefit greatly from this, for they will not see us, for they cannot see us. We will continue to prosper from their wars and their deaths. We shall repeat this over and over until our ultimate goal is accomplished. We will continue to make them live in fear and anger though images and sounds. We will use all the tools we have to accomplish this. The tools will be provided by their labor. We will make them hate themselves and their neighbors. “We will always hide the divine truth from them, that we are all one. This they must never know! They must never know that color is an illusion, they must always think they are not equal. Drop by drop, drop by drop we will advance our goal. We will take over their land, resources and wealth to exercise total control over them. We will deceive them into accepting laws that will steal the little freedom they will have. We will establish a money system that will imprison them forever, keeping them and their children in debt. “When they shall ban together, we shall accuse them of crimes and present a different story to the world for we shall own all the media. We will use our media to control the flow of information and their sentiment in our favor. When they shall rise up against us we will crush them like insects, for they are less than that. They will be helpless to do anything for they will have no weapons. “We will recruit some of their own to carry out our plans, we will promise them eternal life, but eternal life they will never have for they are not of us. The recruits will be called “initiates” and will be indoctrinated to believe false rites of passage to higher realms. Members of these groups will think they are one with us never knowing the truth. They must never learn this truth for they will turn against us. For their work they will be rewarded with earthly things and great titles, but never will they become immortal and join us, never will they receive the light and travel the stars. They will never reach the higher realms, for the killing of their own kind will prevent passage to the realm of enlightenment. This they will never know. The truth will be hidden in their face, so close they will not be able to focus on it until its too late. Oh yes, so grand the illusion of freedom will be, that they will never know they are our slaves. “When all is in place, the reality we will have created for them will own them. This reality will be their prison. They will live in self-delusion. When our goal is accomplished a new era of domination will begin. Their minds will be bound by their beliefs, the beliefs we have established from time immemorial. “But if they ever find out they are our equal, we shall perish then. THIS THEY MUST NEVER KNOW. If they ever find out that together they can vanquish us, they will take action. They must never, ever find out what we have done, for if they do, we shall have no place to run, for it will be easy to see who we are once the veil has fallen. Our actions will have revealed who we are and they will hunt us down and no person shall give us shelter. “This is the secret covenant by which we shall live the rest of our present and future lives, for this reality will transcend many generations and life spans. This covenant is sealed by blood, our blood. We, the ones who from heaven to earth came

  3. Hey Ben,

    Have you notice the comments are no longer being displayed in the order they are submitted?

    Also, a good number of comments submitted as reply comments are not being listed under the comments they were replies to.

    Kind plays hell with trying to post anything sensible.

    1. Test Comment – – – This should post under SK’s comment directed to Ben. – – – Nutter.

    2. @Benjamin Krause – – – I’ve also noticed that after posting, the page doesn’t refresh like it does compared to when manually refreshing the page. – – – Nutter.

  4. “Veterans Affairs head David Shulkin last week backed out of a congressional trip to Europe, The Washington Post learned, after criticism about another international outing, which combined official travel with sightseeing and a Wimbledon tennis event.”

    “Adding to the costs are travel accommodations for Cabinet aides, invited guests and security details, who accompany secretaries on all trips. Thus far, officials have assumed no financial responsibility for passengers on their flights.”

    From the article: “Traveling in style: Trump’s White House wrestles with Cabinet costs”

    By Drew Harwell, Lisa Rein and Jack Gillum October 8 at 7:27 PM


    Think Shulkin is sulking over missing out on his second summer vacation / speakers touring?

  5. “VA hospitals flooded with complaints about care”

    By Andrea Estes Globe Staff September 16, 2017


    “Nursing home residents at the Bedford Veterans Affairs Medical Center can go many hours without food or languish in bed wearing only soiled sheets. The oldest buildings on the campus 25 miles north of Boston contain asbestos, exposing workers to potentially deadly fibers.

    At the William Jennings Bryan Dorn VA Medical Center in South Carolina, one doctor didn’t know how to give a spinal injection, and hospital leaders misled accreditors to win approval for their pain program.

    And at the Fayetteville VA Medical Center in North Carolina, operations had to be rescheduled because anesthetists didn’t give patients enough medicine to fall asleep. Some anesthetists didn’t know how to properly insert a breathing tube.

    All of these alleged lapses in patient care and dangerous conditions were identified by Veterans Administration employees, who have been turning against their employer in record numbers since a patient care scandal at the Phoenix VA in 2014 led to the resignation of the agency’s top official in Washington.”

    1. @Seyore Klearly – – – Curtis Cashour, VA Press Secretary for Shithead “Shitty” Shulkin stated, “Our goal is to rebuild trust among employees and supervisors so that problems can be solved at the lowest level possible.” There was no mention about Veteran’s trust. VA performing half-ass as usual. I’m not surprised when comparing my own health care, in which you are aware of. Good informing article. Thanks for posting.

      There’re problems with the proper training of Certified Nursing Assistant’s too. And, it doesn’t help when the attrition rate for this occupation is high as well. Plus, CNA’s working in Retirement Homes for assisted living, are most likely managed by Registered Nurses, who in themselves probably aren’t qualified to manage. CNA’s have more contact with clients (patients) than the Nurses in such facilities. The CNA’s that work hard has to help the other CNA’s who are slower in finishing their individual tasks, and the in-charge floor Nurses put pressure on the group as a whole in order to take care of their clients.


      As you know, I’m having many issues with the health care from the VA. There is most likely a lot of problems in the US health care industry, and that many aren’t openly being talked about, or not properly reported to Veterans. We have a right to know what is happening in the VA Medical Centers, Clinics, Claims Offices, and Voc Rehab too. – – – Nutter.

  6. “House Dems boycott VA reform discussion over inclusion of right-leaning group: report”

    By Ellen Mitchell – The Hill – 10/04/17 04:40 PM EDT


    “House Veterans’ Affairs Committee Democrats would not attend the meeting because Concerned Veterans for America (CVA) would be there.”

    “CVA was one of 18 veterans groups invited to the event, including the American Legion, AMVETS, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and Wounded Warrior Project.”

    The Dems don’t like groups that are not willing to just take the money and run!

    1. More From the article: “VA Secretary David Shulkin has promised to replace the Choice program with the Coordinated Access and Rewarding Experiences program (CARE) to be revealed this month.

      The closed roundtable discussion which Democrats refused to attend covered broad outlines of the upcoming proposals.

      “It is disappointing that the Democrat members of the committee did not want to hear ideas on how to fix the VA from a group of veterans, including many patients of the VA and combat veterans like myself,” said Dan Caldwell, the policy director for CVA.””

  7. VA demoted this employee for what he posted from his home computer, on his off-time, and using an Internet pipe paid for by him?

    Wowsa !!!

    Too damn bad they cannot be as diligent at stopping benefits payments to Deceased Veterans, Ensuring that their billing statements are correct for living veterans, Providing prompt, decent healthcare to veterans, and demonstrating competent management of their allocated funds . . .

    Haven’t we as combat veterans given enough to the nation already? How is it that my taxes now have to subsidize Shithead Shulkin’s European Dream Vacation?

    POTUS needs to FIRE this Asshole the Day before Yesterday . . .

  8. Off Topic – – – A possibility that the LV shooter had an internal trigger that set him off. Definitely no excuse for his actions. I think he was tormented because of his father’s lifestyle, then battling with his own. Understanding the reasoning for taking the lives of those at the CW Concert, is beyond me. It’s a crazy world we live in. Just saying. – – – Nutter.

  9. I am from the Monkey Business Union (a branch of AFGE), and must state we are more pissed-off still at the name of tough breakfast cereal ‘Grape Nuts’. Many apes have been called ‘grape apes’ in comics and elsewhere, and furthermore, our ‘Nuts’ are not purple.
    Please sign petition to change ‘Grape Nuts’ to ‘Gravel Nuts’. Thanks.

  10. VA = Peyton Place x 100

    Come on Veterans, sign up for Veterans Health Care. You’ll be so ever amazed, irritated, pissed off, and or go into protective mode. Be careful when around receiving services from these Federal Unionized AFGE Workers. – – – Nutter.

  11. My Own Deduction on this Topic – – – If determined that the phrase, “Dance Monkey Dance,” and its context of this Veterans demotion, was unjustified. The only time that my conclusion isn’t a clean cut judgement, is when another party took offense to the phrase, without the phrase being used in a manner for anyone to get upset. Houston, we have a problem.

    After pondering about the article, I’ve also come to the conclusion, that I’m now offensive about the word, “cracker.” So I don’t want to hear; white cracker, nut cracker, or the phrase box of crackers (group of white people), or any thing similar. What is this all about?

    I believe that there is a plan in some minds of power, to have declared many different words and phrases to become a sensitive matter, no matter in what context that the words or phrases are used in. Where’s this going in the future?

    It is my belief, that a certain portion of our society, are trying their best in making as many words or phrases to become a matter of discrimination. Wait, I’m not done.

    This is all connected to the matter and movement of reparations. Plus, not only are these powers at be to want many words and phrases to be offended to certain races, they are trying to get other races to stand up and to be counted as being all for their cause. What’s the bottom line?

    If my hypothesis is correct, and reparations is approved in our Country, I’d can’t wait to see how a certain amount of monies are calculated for amends and redress, and to see how the reparations would be and on a what basis to be distributed. Can you imagine the equation that would be used to trying to determine the amounts of reparation per person, family, name, etc..

    I’ll tell you folks, this will be one hot dancing mess if things go this way. Who knows, anything can happen in this Country whether its valid or not.

    Give me an Up or Down Thumb on what I think. Thanks. – – – Nutter.

  12. Are you saying that Mr. Cruz is a “blatantly racist” employee? VA employees are monkeys, and it doesn’t matter what color they are because there is only one (1) race called the human race. Idiots that call racist remarks “racist” are idiots. It is equivalent to telling your sibling to go screw his mother, or in this day and age, their father. This is the problem with all you idiots, including me. I am a gay man, most of the time unless I am angry (not “mad”), and I am not homosexual. Call a spade a spade and you will find yourself committing political career suicide. The message is to think racist to protect yourself from being called a racist by the young, stupid, and ignorant loudmouths that have a hidden agenda. I love these and other posts, but then emotion starts to cloud intelligence and only stupid begins to rear its ugly head.

    To whatever disparaging respond comments I receive on this post, here is my response to you:

    I know you are, so what am I? (Pee Wee Herman)

    1. Welcome, Francisco. Too bad Pee Wee Herman got caught doing some monkey business while maybe dancing or not dancing in a public bathroom. The world is crazy. Beware of those flying monkeys at the VA.

  13. I’m surprised that disabledveterans.org came to the rescue of a VA employee, which I am glad because it came to defend and explain the ridiculousness of the VA, even for their own.

    It appears that we should think racist first before posting, or making statements that way we would know that if we do state something, it will firstly be scrutinized as racist then we can edit to avoid the accusation; unless we meant it to be racist.

    This reminds me of the reporter that said that a certain basketball team lost because of the “chink” in their armour. In olden days, a chink in the armour could prove fatal from a sharp attacking instrument, and it had nothing to do with asians.

    I firstly thought of the “chink in the armour” as taken from the historical record and not from the racist mind. The same was from “dance monkey dance”.

    In essence, screw-you, and I am not talking about Archimedes principles.

  14. I want to know more about this:

    “Sexual References Of A Person’s “Monkey”

    There are also numerous pop culture references to “monkey” in the sexual sense, but I probably do not need to get into that, here.”

  15. he can pretend he ment no malice, he seems to be an intelligent man so i think he said what he believes and knew that comment would cause some blow-back. We live in America, we all have the right to peacefully protest. when can we no longer protest our perceived or actual grievances are we truly free?

    Navy vet

    1. How do you know that he was pretending? How do you know that he knew that his comment would cause blow-back? To know everyone’s perceptions, and then to figure out if the perception is true or not? Wow. So you never misread a message or what someone has said to you in the past? No mistakes? Your reading more into this than necessary. Plus, do you like that an employer owns you 24/7? Especially one that can’t keep its own house in order? – – – Nutter.

  16. It is hard to imagine that either of my two Italian Grayhounds would distinguish any human from apes if we all got together for a big party. The rub is that we hate being reminded that we are primates at all. Racism is just a form of self primate loathing – we first define an “us” then we define a “them”, then we begin slinging poo at “them”.

    The hounds just see primtates slinging poo and smell the odor of mammal ass in the air. I USED to believe that somehow we as humanity had achieved a degree of sophistication above and beyond that of Mutual of Omaha’s wild kingdom friends but then again that always played back to back to Wonderful World of Disney too, right?

    Still I had long clung to the hope that our opposable thumbs were proof of our inner goodness and I equated that with being more perfect than the other lower mammals in our family tree.

    Then I was exposed to internet pornography. In less than 15 minutes, four decades of my delusions about humanity were shattered. I guess Meese Commission didn’t work out all that great? They were kind of worried about what people said and did too…

    I am gonna vape some marijuanna and eat a bannana now – then walk to Starbucks which is an “opposable thumb only” kind of crowd and not the “other” kind. Yuck.

    1. Jim here from Mutual Of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom; note that we human primates also actively flung poo prior to the bears in the woods at Charmin producing toilet paper. Now only homeless vets and those primates that cannot afford luxury the bears provide in form of soft asswipes, still cling to the five finger fling.

      1. @namnibor

        …did you EVER wonder how much Mutual Of Omaha charged for an insurance policy to cover Marlin, the helicopter pilot, camera-man, and of course the Man On The Ground, Jim in case of accidental death, dismemberment, evisceration, or devourment?

        They must have gotten a discount?

      2. It was the Jurassic Umbrella Coverage Package, but it absolutely did not cover nosedives into erupting volcanoes. (earth’s burn pit)

  17. “employees @ work. Good job VA!!!”
    Yes, You have to KISS the ring that feed’s you

      1. That’s the “one ring to rule them all” with the VA. Sore throat? Bend over, say ahh! Stubbed femur or perhaps a splinter in your eye? Bend over and pray. The VA *loves* that “ring to rule them all” as much as Saturn loves it’s own rings.

      2. Kiss the Ring / ass no difference at the VA.
        The lower you go at the VA [sphincter] :chuckle: the bigger the Bonus…

        As for FRANK-CES Beard her wife took off with a football player with ball’s so now she’s mad at all men..LOL

  18. Well, at least we finally know what it takes to get demoted at the VA. If you concoct a scheme to skirt VA rules and defraud taxpayers of nearly $400K, as Diana Rubens and Kimberly Graves did, that ain’t enough.

    On the other hand, if you make a comment on your own time on social media, that’ll get ‘er done if someone anysomewhere finds it offensive? We are living in strange times, my friend.

    1. I see one of Fran’s post has been removed. The cocktail comment is not meant toward Stephen Lemaster. It was to one of Fran’s posts.

    2. Agreed. We have Directors/managers getting DUIs, caught with drugs they appear to have stolen from the VA, using government time to conduct side business (Puerto Rico and Tennessee VA offices), and they still have not even faced disciplinary and/or adverse actions…..but the VA makes time to demote some idiot for what he put on social media?????

      1. You’re right “some idiot” making $120,000 a year. What combat veteran makes that kind of money? O.K., not a contractor, but here in the states, with only a GED.

  19. Just stay off FB. The FB Jew boy hates America as much as the NFL Monkeys but always have their hands out for ‘mo’ money. Freedom in America is going the way of the Republic and our Constitution.

  20. Gatdammit – I watched the Cline vid on monkeys and all of a sudden my thumbs started to stiffen up. Then I spilled my water when I tried to pick up the glass. Shit – it took me a half hour to type this. Thanks Ben.

  21. This is a slippery slope either way, I was canned from a Govt agency for ALLEGED issues like this. Its a long story but the real reason was I pissed off a manager so they amassed a long list of BS accusations over 2 years and said collectively I was a bad person,. Despite glowing endorsements and commendations. Simply put, anything you say or do can be taken out of context and used against you.

    So, be very careful what you say or do that can be construed in a negative light.

    As to facebook, only idiots post comments like that for all the world to see and then are dumbfounded when they get in trouble, Either set up an acct with a alter identity or nickname or self censor your opinions.

    As a guy earning $120k a year posting that stuff shows very poor judgement. I agree we all have free speech, but Ill bet somebody had an axe to grind.

    In my area numerous police have been disciplined or fired for similar posts. We even have a Portland cop who idolizes Nazis and was investigated for building a shrine on Rockey Butte lookout point to several famous Nazis. I am sure he was equally surprised when the news hit the wire.

    I DO agree though that people are overly sensitive and get worked up over stuff that does not matter. But if you are a public employee or visible then you need to
    use some common sense. And,, for the record there was a whole bunch of car dealer commercials locally called “The Trunk Monkey” and they were great. Nothing racist about them. One showed the driver pulling a lever and Trunk monkeys (Chimps) got out and changed the tire, Another showed Chimps getting out and attacking a car jacker/mugger with a tire iron,, each commercial ended with
    “Thanks Trunk Monkey!” Other car dealers copied the ad and they were nationwide at other dealers for a while. Seems to me people were offended by those commericals too.

      1. Yes, thats the commercials I was talking about, I thought they were great, cant see why anyone would object to them, but some people did.

      2. They objected to them because they are racist themselves and do not see the humor, only the sick racism in their minds. Just because you are paranoid does not mean you are not being followed.

    1. “20 Trunk Monkey Ads in HD – BEST of the BEST! 2017 :-D”

      Excellent commercials


    2. “As to facebook, only idiots post comments like that for all the world to see and then are dumbfounded when they get in trouble”
      Something just came to mind, I would love to hear from the subordinates this guy supervised, I wonder if he has ever used the same tactic on them that his employer is using on him? I hope not, but if that is the case then it would be poetic justice, or if your religious, Karma. This victim can be the nicest guy, or the lowest of the low (a company man) to have gotten where he has gotten, I don’t know, but the question begs to be asked: Are we to judge on the act, or the character of the actor? Adolf Hitler made many comments in the early 30s, and was Man of the Year on American magazine and there is a cop out there that worships him. I pray that it is only one cop, unless you are in Chicago, then there is probably another one, but which one is he?

  22. From:
    “American Action News”
    via; “The Hill” by; Max Greenwood 10/06/2017
    via: “The Associated Press”
    “DEVELOPING: This Traitor Has Just Plead Guilty!”

    The article is short, sweet and to the point!

  23. Ben, since there is a shortage of Attorneys that know, and represent Veterans with VA Medical Malpractice Law Suits, are there any type of grants, or monies to either help young inspired, good-hearted attorneys to obtain the credentials affording them the opportunity to try such cases? I’m aware that VA Medical Malpractice is a complicated framework of edits and legislation, cases are time consuming, and the VA in many cases, aren’t cooperative.

    I’ve been participating with your site for a short while now, and I can’t grasp WHY IN THE HELL isn’t there a great push to make sure that the VA is running efficiently, especially since it deals mostly within the health industry. As a Biologist, I sometimes get stomach pains after reading such asinine behavior by VA employees and its leadership.

    It REALLY bothers me when situations arise with the VA, its a black and white call (sorry, I didn’t mean to use colors), and the VA then will twist things up by taking them out of context, or because they made a decision its already a just action, or the VA completely misses that mark by not admitting that it was there fault, or that there are unsolved issues with or against Veterans, and the same situation hasn’t been resolved in decades.

    A monster on the move. Predictable to the point of knowing that the VA will act in wontonishing (made up word from wonton, not used much nowadays) strange ways. Many times not fitting with the situation that is at hand. Let me kneel down and stretch for a bit. – – – Nutter.

      1. Purple People has the pleasure of sitting back and watching all the stupid behaviors of the other colors screwing over each other due to lack of trust and respect for one another. I wish this would stop amongst us as Citizens. Immigration another thing that got all fouled up in the past. And now, there is a lot of blow back against our leaders that want to follow the law. We can’t blame those in charge if they’re following the law. – – – Nutter.

  24. I am proud to live in a place that I can spew forth all sorts of vile hate filled rhetoric targetting the most powerful people in our land with little fear for my own life by doing it. It makes no difference to me who bends their knee to what ruler nor who pledges their allegiance to whom so long as the guns and bombs and other things that we have devised to use against our enemies are not pointing inward upon ourselves.

    These NFL boys who see the spotlight are moved to do their part to change the world and I am ok with that. I am ok with the anger that they meant to stir up too though I do despise unnecessary incitement to anger.

    From my perspective any man who dons pads, a helmet, and a jock strap and cup, and then proceeds to get their skull and all other thusly protected parts bashed on repeatedly in pursuit of putting a pill shaped piece of pig skin across a white line in the grass is just bound to be full of ideas different from my own. Same thing with a VA manager making a six figure income; his world and my world are so far apart a sub-space message would take weeks to arrive.

    The question is not about racism and it is not about Constitutional protections at all. The question is about worlds. NFL players and VA managers both live in completely different worlds than I do. Most of you reading this do too, or so my mental health care professionals would have me believe.

    What I have learned though at dear cost is pretty simple; we can be from different worlds and still live in peace. Peaceful co-existance is the fruit of a strong Constitution, not the mandate.

    1. Don’t know about that place you live in but I do know that your neighbor is named Fran from Puget Sound. She is not very tolerant with VA employees using free speech and them using such derogatory terms such as Dance Monkey Dance against the NFL players taking a knee.

      But clearly she has no problem with free speech when she is the one speaking.

      Demonstrated by her coming to this website filled with disabled Veterans and calling us deplorables and spineless cowards.

      Hope you will not mind my use of free speech and provide this person a message. So to this VA employee who is the same person that is disrespecting the menorah by displaying it tilted sideways and totally disrespecting Disabled Veterans intelligence I have one thing to say to you.

      Dance Monkey Dance

      1. I’ll supply a few bunch of ripened nanahs (not a misspelling) to support the dancing monkey’s doing the jig. – – – Nutter.

    2. Touche! And to add: guns are for the government to fear the people and not the people to fear the government. Ruby Ridge comes to mind, and Waco, and both Wounded Knee, and…

    3. Well we can all get around the subject. I am a Vietnam/Cambofia veteran and it is disrespect able not to stand up! Do it in a different arena! We were yelled at and spit on and called baby killers when we came home. I just want the respect of others at some time for my service. So I do resent others not standing up for our country for it hurts all of us once again and further divides this great nation! We can all feel your pain but also see mine! Enough said


    For a little inside baseball, I am about to write about something else to compare and contrast this issue. In another case, one national director and her staffer joked about putting veterans “into the ovens” using VA IT systems while at work. Veterans seeking benefits were referred to as members of the “parasitic class”.


    In both instances, the statements were made by combat veterans. One was at work between a national director and staffer. The other was at home on Facebook.

    What is your take?

    VA said they would look into the matter in August but have not commented as to whether either the director or the staffer would be punished much less demoted. I’m hoping to get comment over the next couple days to compare and contrast the matter.

    One pokes fun at NFL players in a way that insulted/offended a lot of people on Facebook.

    The other jokes about burning veterans alive referencing Nazi ovens used to burn Jewish people alive in WWII at work using VA IT that was leaked to the press.

    1. I don’t know what/why/when/how the VA chooses what it will investigate and/or who it may punish. Maybe they use a Magic 8 ball?

      All I know is I reported the Atlanta’s DAV’s racist and bigoted comments online about people like me (I’m Black and Hispanic); and, that continues to go nowhere.

      And, I’m all about doing things on your own time – but I can candidly explain how the DAV’s racist and bigoted employees’ expressions online resulted in me being discriminated on the job.

      We live in a different day/age. People use social media to express who they are and it ultimately is reflected in the workplace. They get really brave online because they know with all the laws and stuff, they aren’t gonna carry out their views at the water cooler at work because they would easily be fired.

      We all have a right to our beliefs, but if you’re dumb enough to go online and say stuff you KNOW will offend someone else and you are in a position where the public and/or your boss will find out – you’re dumb enough to do something stupid on the job. Again, we live in a different day/age – people are gonna check out your social media to get a feel of “who” you are and if you’re worth hiring.

      Look at that “Reality Winter” girl who leaked on the NSA. If you look on her social media, you see a fool who believed that getting her beliefs across was done by calling our President the “C” word. Why would you hire and/or give a security clearance to someone who can’t even debate/promote her own beliefs without being disrespectful? Again, social media is linked to the person you’re keeping on the job – like it or not.

      So, I don’t know is the the VA preparing to a defense to my accussations – by putting this idiot out to dry for his Dancing Monkey comments? I don’t know and I don’t care. It’s all a farce. The VA is full of crap.

      Here’s a video to check out “https://youtu.be/K2eXVA2b6so”

      1. Cool post, and I agree with you. As to the right to your beliefs, I agree, as long as you keep them to yourself, or are ready to pick up a gun to defend them, else, it is stupid to voice your opinion if it is going to insult someone, a group, or system. All actions carry consequences that must be weighed with the benefits and losses. So I say “screw-it” and not using Archimedes principle.

      2. @TaB,
        Here’s a website on the DAV. If you think your the only person DAV has gone against, your mistaken!
        You’ll be amazed at how they have screwed over so many, and gotten away with it!

      3. Hey elf, I’m new with these VSO’s. Some say there all about same per trusting. Is this true? And, am I going to have to watch them like a hawk with every step that they take or don’t take? I’m defensive since my health care has caused me additional problems. – – – Nutter.

      4. Nutter,
        Don’t trust any of the VSO’s. Unless you receive the disability %’s and compensations you deserve!
        It’s that simple!
        Keep fighting!

      5. Do you mean don’t trust them unless you know that they performed? I also asked, because I don’t like how the behavioral health side of my has become so much intensified in the last 2 years. Its out of my control. I’ve had enough of the BS. – – – Nutter.

    2. If you have been around pain, death and gore, you learn to survive with the madness with sick and morbid humor. The problem is when an outsider uses it against you. There is a saying that I’ve heard over and over again throughout my life and it goes like this “You have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you”… Hello! Listen to the words, and their meaning. Ponder their benefits and side effects. This is a sick world we live in, and if you do not believe in it, you are part of the problem. The thought police does exist, but they can only enforce confessions; in other words, what “shit” comes out of your mouth, and worse yet, what “shit” you post, with your name! Word of advise, never claim credit for your graffitti. Picture this: you’re jewish, in 1944, in Berlin Germany, and you make a public statement that you do not like the way the Fuhrer is running the war, and you believe that the Gestapo will protect your rights, person, and property. Hello! If its put in the net, it goes into the “Cloud” and nothing ever gets erased from the “Cloud”.

  26. The point I see here is that the VA is more than willing to demote a “combat veteran” employee to help the VA’s image. The veteran employee is not demoted for a secret waitlist, intimidating a whistle blower, fraud, waste, and abuse of tax payer dollars, or any of the multitude of crimes that other employees have committed in the VA. No, this veteran employee gets punished for non-VA action performed outside the VA on his own free time. In what universe is so-called Political Correctness more important than the LIVES OF VETERANS.

    It doesn’t matter whether it is about football or anything else. What matters is the VA, and the government in general, has taken a stand against free speech instead of cleaning out the real criminals. It’s time to demote the VA.

    1. I agree with you, but no one put a gun to his head to take a $60 an hour job with plenty of benefits. If anyone is a monkey, he is, but he chose it. He practically unwittingly signed part of his 1st amendment rights with the hourly compensation, or salaried. Does it matter what you do on your time, or does it matter what you do on the job? So the off duty cop beats his wife, kids, and dog, smokes medical weed, gets plastered drunk in his home, and watching the raunchiest pay per view crap, and not in that order. Wouldn’t you say that he willingly and unwillingly written and unwittingly sign away some of his constitutional and/or civil rights? Of course not! This is America and we all have the God giving gift of choosing to be stupid. I agree that you are right and I am wrong. See how easy to end an argument. As the old adage goes “Who is the bigger fool, the fool, or the one who argues with the fool?” I disagree with the VA decision, and if on a jury, I would support the employee; even though, he is an idiot making $60 an hour. If I wasn’t as disabled, and was able to earn minimum wage, I would just smile and do my job and represent my employer’s image on and off the clock.

  27. Hey now, we don’t all need to agree with @FRANCES Beard, but let’s avoid getting into the weeds and attacking her directly. I want to encourage all viewpoints on here so long as we maintain some degree of professional respect for each other.

    I realize this topic fires a lot of folks up for a variety of reasons. I’m proud to say this website, and myself directly, advocate for every veteran of every color, race, creed, and religion. We put the needs of veterans first, even if they say dumb things on Facebook about NFL millionaires protesting that get them into trouble.

    At the end of the day, we are pro-Constitution, pro-individual liberties, and pro-kindness. If you are a racist, and you come here and say unkind things that are judged “racist” against any color, I will boot you.

    Luckily, we have not had that problem here in a long time. But if you see it, especially today, please immediately “flag” the comment so I can have a look by clicking on the new flag symbol in the upper right hand of each comment.

      1. One too many cocktails in the lounge waiting for the Plane?

        So what are you a she, he or it?

      2. You must be on fantasy Island waiting for a plane, Didn’t they tell you it only comes in once a week….Zeeeeee plane boss, Zeeeeee plane

      3. However, the ‘crazy train’ is always running and always on-time. “All Aboard…”!!

      4. Fran with your negative attitude towards disabled Veterans it certainly seems that your working at the VA is not a very good thing.

        Maybe you should just go sleep it off under your bridge.

      5. Seymore,
        We all know most VA employees don’t like veterans! It’s when we call them out on their hypocrisy, is when they attack our intelligence!
        Look at all the VHA’s nationwide which refused to put up a picture of President Trump! That’s the mentality of them.
        My comment to “ANutterVet” above, a few minutes ago, shows my distain for anyone who abuses the 1st Amendment, “Freedom of Speech” clause!
        Like I said, I’m all for Freedom of Speech, it’s when people abuse it, by holding some accountable and others NOT accountable, is when I draw the line!
        When that occurs, they ARE showing their hypocrisy!

      6. Why does the same damn thing have to be repeated, in order to get a valid point across to a Liberal with sub superior beliefs? Hmm, listen up pretty precious, your history goes before you. Then before I made my first comment, you had the a little beef with Veteran Donald Advant before I posted.

        I’m sorry, but the first thing, oh please forgive me, the first thing that I questioned was, “do you like men?” Then my conscious said to me, “hey bro, settle down, she may have some problems like out of control thoughts of Dancing Monkey. And, we shouldn’t use the animals for demonstrative purposes.” So I said, “Conscious, you alright my friend, you keep me well liberalized in life.” Lets get back to my post, Conscious has a habit of side tracking me.

        So listen, the record shows your past encounters with others. The you use the Hillary word “deplorables.” On a site no less for Disabled Veterans. Are you a Veteran? A Disabled Veteran? Even if you were one or the other, many so-called “deplorables” will go into places that you’d be shitting in your pants if you had to go. Hold on now pretty girl, were going to get just a little deeper here.

        Federal Employees are tracking Disabled Veterans on this site. Hmm. For what? Their afraid. Why? Because there’s, “Bungle in the Jungle, and its alright by me.” I was wondering if there are any VA employees, who out of the blue, has the habit of getting up and start dancing in the workplace?

        Crazy elf, you may have set miss Frances off with you analogy of VA employees and corruption, theft, conspiracy, etc. – – – Nutter.

      7. ANutterVet,
        If I did “…set miss France’s off…” Oh well too freaking bad!
        Guess VA employees don’t like hearing the truth!
        I had a feeling, one or more VA employees were going to try to upset us! Didn’t work though. Just brought out the best by us on here!
        Maybe it’s time for them to realize: Hillary lost. “Politically Correct Speech” is out! “Truth Saying” is in!
        I’m all for “Freedom of Speech”! It’s when those “Freedoms” are abused, by holding some accountable and others NOT accountable, is where I draw the line!
        I don’t believe the person(s) involved in the “Dance Monkey Dance” video, actually believed he was being racist.
        It’s parallel to when Mrs. Trump, as FLOTUS, sent “Dr. Seuss” books to a grade school. Then the “librarian” said she would NOT accept them because she believed “The books to be racist, in nature!”
        What a crock!
        Especially, when there’s a video out of “Former First (“African American”) Lady”, Michelle Obama, reading from the same books to young people inside the White House!
        This proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, “liberal democrat snowflakes” ARE hypocrisy in all of life’s learning!

      8. Hey elf, pay it no mind. You spoke what has been published. I watched the videos as well, a far stretch for the libs argument. VA leadership should be REMOVED from employment, permanently. – – – Nutter.

      9. It’s getting so nuts that the very term racist has been repurposed and bastardized. Next, they will want to add some dye to Old Faithful at Yellowstone because the geyser is too white. Wait for it…

      10. Although, a red Old Faithful would give the term ‘Mother Earth’ an entirely new twist. 🙂 (sorry, in an uplifted mood today)

  28. Does this mean that VA employees will have to quit calling Veterans Test Monkeys, Lab Rats and Guinea pigs?

  29. Question about the “voting” feature below comments – thumb up thumb down. Do you folks like it or should I bounce it?

    1. Like it, but have noted that it can be used improperly and one person can do an end run around the software by dumping their cookies and either improperly promote a comment or they can use it to negatively attack a statement.

    2. Ben, this is a prime example of when having a rating system, that sometimes its not a clear cut pick of yes or no. With ratings, and depending on what type of question is asked, you can be less or more specific on the answers to such questions.

      Do you like liver; Y or N.

      Do you like liver; Y, N, Y w/ Onions, Y w/ Onions, and tender.

      I have no issues with voting, only that our comments be rated other than Y or N. Many posts are long winded in writing, containing many parts in which I may agree, and segments that I don’t agree with. This is when I have a hard time in rating / voting. Never answered Y or N questions even in Court when I couldn’t. Even when ordered, I refused. Oops, bad Veteran.

      Same applies to anyone that may complain about bullying, mobbing, racism, sexism, etc. Especially as we seen in your article today, how things can REALLY be taken out of context per a phrase with the word monkey in it.

      A Veteran was demoted because of something he posted on his own time. VA has nothing to do with this man when not on the clock. This is another example of the libturd believe of owning the total employee personhood, only because a business pays for their wages (usually for 40 hours). Business wants to own you even when you’re at home, on your own time.

      With the off the cliff far left’s personal, societal, and political beliefs, the more specific one gets in questioning, searching, and fine-tuning in obtaining facts, the Libturds reasons will not hold up to scrutiny.

      Our problem, we cave in too soon. The wrong party then wins only because the other party wasn’t challenged enough. Then when it comes time for repealing, its a costly and time consuming endeavor. Stop the waste, money and time matters.

      I realize this is a short ranting. But, I’ve completely had it with the VA, and the untruthful spinning of facts. Many Politicians should be impeached for their turning away of truly fixing the VA.

      Just like Government, they lack in check and balances of their own responsibilities. But the Gubmint over does the monitoring when it suits their own agenda. Same ole pattern that sticks out like a sore bleeding thumb.

      Ben, I hope my input helps you in making your decision about to keep or not to keep the voting on comments. If not, ask for more clarification, weren’t going to demote you. LMAOooooo- – – Nutter.

      1. Nutter, I couldn’t have stated it better, not even in 20 years. A thought came to mind as I was reading your comment. On R&R in Bangkok, I asked my date what her name was and she said “Whatever you want it to be, you’re paying.” Which comes to mind on these superstars that are hounded by paparazzi. Did they unwittingly sign away their right to privacy in exchange for fame and wealth? Same with Uhg multi millionaire ball “heroes”, I feel they have unwittingly waived their rights to an extent to appease the majority of fans and thus to enrichen their and their owners pockets. I was in charge of multi millions of equipment and lives, and not just for my side. On a whim of boredom I could clear a hillside of all vegetation and any human life on it, any. Twenty years later, I am employed at a VA hospital under an incentive therapy program that paid $1.65 an hour because of my experiences. I could say the stupidest things and they would just smile at me and tell me to take an unscheduled break for an extended period of time, like the rest of the shift. This VA employee makes about $60 an hour; therefore, I believe that there is an unwritten waiver of rights in such compensation. If I was making over $12 an hour, I would watch my language as I represent my employer on and off hours. . disagree with the VA’s decision and fully support the VA employee and his 1st Amendment rights, BUT, getting back to Bangkok, I did not do the nasty with my date because it turned out to be a dude, but I kept my deal of the bargain for a date and let it keep the money. I don’t judge others because I have been judged by others, wrongly, and now I do not know what is right, or wrong in the modern political climate. So I thank you for your opinionated comment that has allowed me to make life a little more clearer on the things I agree with and the things I don’t agree with. It’s your world and I only live in it. Just don’t put me in charge again, I might find myself bored.

      2. Francisco – – – The actors and sports players love both the money, and the attention of some that put these individuals on some sort of pedestal in life. I think their privacy when in public is reduced because of the fame factor. Fame comes along their turf of occupation (movie stars, athletes, famous business people, etc.). They especially give up their public privacy when they are interviewed, in live tv programs, or selling a product after they’ve become famous in their field of making money. Keeping in mind, that when boxers that are famous, and they don’t want to be bothered, many people respect them. Why? Because if they are interrupted or they get agitated, he’ll go a round with them. I don’t know if I’m making a point or sharing an observation. Damn pain medication screwing with my head.

        I don’t know what I would’ve done with according to your words, “but I kept my deal of the bargain for a date and let “IT” keep the money.” I focused on the word IT- so I came up with Intentional Trickery (IT). That being didn’t let you know that he was in dragster mode. In fact, IT should’ve paid you for your company of the evening. If in fact it was a date night.

        I wanted to focus more in depth about your date, keeping your mind occupied so that you don’t get bored. In all good intensions, I wish all the best in getting those critters to award you want you need in Voc Rehab. Hey, tell them that you don’t want to get bored. – – – Nutter.

    3. I like it but it will not let me vote my own post either thumbs down or minus sign either when clearly the body of the text calls for it even by the author!

      1. I was able to vote myself down on the internet once and it took almost an entire year before I came back from the ethers of diminished opinions.

      2. @namnibor,

        that is an identical experience I had!!! Only it was the VA mental health professionals that voted me down in real life then treated me for it!

        … Other than that, our experience is spot on only my recovery from diminished opinions was a tiny bit longer bro than twelve months. BUT the past is here and gone and plans must be laid! So;

        I am gonna go to the hot tub now. If I am alone I plan to pee while soaking in the bubbles without shame. Afterward it is some plant extract that we whip up here in Orygun that I will vaporize, inhale, enjoy and then I will sit in the sunshine until the sun moves a little way across the sky. I plan to drink a Coke.

        That schedule is tough but if I pace myself I can make it through the day.

        Semper Fi and NEVER retreat (just attack in different directions)!

    4. Ahhhh! Thats what it is! I got too involved in the reading of the comments only that I did not pay much attention to it, but now that I know, I say keep it. I will start to use it after every comment, the only problem I see is that it gauges the popularity and not the accuracy of the post opinion. Thank you for the web Mr. Krause, I bought your booklet before my Voc Rehab appointment, and lo and behold, I was denied, again, for the third time, but with your booklet, which I think is a great deal of a wealth of information for less than twenty bucks. I’ve been passing the word around and many veterans are not aware of your website, let alone their rights.

  30. Ten little monkeys jumping on the bed,
    One fell off and bumped his head!
    Called up the doctor and the doctor said,
    “No more monkeys jumping on the bed!”

    … who votes that I tell the kids at the swimming pool next summer that they are racist when they sing this song?

    (Dr. Shulkin PLEASE put your hand down sir, it was a rhetorical question)

  31. I’d bet this is all about the new Law taken out of context “S.Res.118 Anti-hate Resolution” condemning hate crime, any form of racism, religious, ethnic bias, discrimination, incitement to violence, animus targeting a minority in the United States

    1. Pedophiles are a minority, I hope, I pray, I believe; are they protected too? Don’t include priests because they then lose their minority status.

      1. Francisco, Are you being sarcastic? Or did you just confess to all of us that you are a Pedophile? If so, I hope a certain someone here does the research on you & gets you out of here. We tolerate a lot but abusing children is not one of those things. Did you even READ the law before you commented. For your info newbie ‘The purple Team’ refers to the way the (Indy VAMC) treats Veterans.

  32. WOW, butt hurt VA is really becoming unhinged about a monkey…….what about all the monkeys at Ft Dietrick for testing purposes???? Imagine a few lab techs discussing the days work. ” hey Bob, what did you do today”? Bobs answer, ” gassed a few monkeys with burn pit, sarin, vx, you know the drill Ed”.

    I probably just started a shit storm…… oh well, I’m gonna go Spank the Monkey…….Fuck VA, Fuck AFGE…..

  33. And your tilting to the left, just like your picture. Off balance, and taken out of context. – – – Nutter

      1. I’m the one that’s saying, “And?” I said it even after reading the article. Knee jerk reaction. Get those blinding floating emotions out of the way to see things clearer. When rereading the article, stop and take breath, relax, focus on the printed information in front of you. If you get too fired up, go lay down for a while. Then try it again. If this doesn’t work, then put your fate into the hands of the VA. Go ahead negative comment me. Don’t care. – – – Nutter.

      2. Yet you keep on responding thereby disproving your point about “some ppl are not even worth the energy of a response.”

        Were your “hypothesis” correct – – – you would simply shut up and go away. But you have not chosen that path, Grasshopper.

      1. It gets worse as time goes by. Wait, isn’t that a song? “As Time Goes By.” Alrightie then, lets see what is next. – – – Nutter

      2. I think we may have a dancing floater on surface of swamp today or someone is overcooking cabbage. 🙂

      3. Pretty sure that it is the trans-sexual that originally filed the claim against Stephen Pina. In the report the tranny also claimed that while in route to a meeting Pina once slapped the dash of a car said a sexually disparaging term while he and other VA employees were traveling together on a way to a meeting. So the tranny has held a grudge ever since then and claimed to fear him.

        Not sure of the term that was said but it was likely one also used to describe a bundle of sticks or twigs bound together as fuel.

  34. No Administration will come ever come to Veterans Defense. It’s appallingly that Veterans think a new president will overhaul the VA. Sit back and continue to watch shit stay the same.

    The manager involved will be fighting the Government on this issue. He is not fighting the “VA”, he is fight the SOVEREIGN. What kind of idiot let’s his job or position be known on Facebook. Or allows co-workers to follow him on FB. The entire issue with the National Anthem is absurd. Anyone who has ever taken the oath of enlistment swears or affirms to support and defend the United States Constitution, not the flag or national anthem. I will always stand for the national anthem, because I honor my brothers, sisters and the all fallen hero’s. People call the anthem homage to Veterans. How about they pay homage at all times instead of sitting back and doing nothing as Veterans parish at the hands of negligent VA providers. Or paying homage and processing Veterans Claims expeditiously. The flag and national anthem are symbols. The same people who cry and claim to bleed for this country are the same people who have never served, nor put this country before themselves. I laugh when I see all of the BS circulating and people claiming to support Veterans, the military, first responders and police officers. These same people gave me attitude as an miltary cop, drank under age, beat their wives, fought in the dorms, were UCMJ’ed for hazing, and made the police blotter on Monday mornings. A bunch of disrespectful, self serving hypocrites. The entire national anthem narrative is baseless rhetoric with the intent to distract on the real issues. Veterans will be so engulfed in this rhetoric and forget the real issues and that nothing is being done to improve the ongoing VA systemic issues.

    Department of Justice attorneys will defend the VA in any and all capacities. People need to wake up and realize that in every Administration the “President” will never rise up and come to Veterans defense. When Veterans or VA employees sue the “VA”, the are actually suing the United States of America. AKA the “Government” in Federal Court. Which is essentially the current Administration and every person in the United States. Not once since Trump has been in office has he said anything derogatory about the VA. He blasted the VA on the campaign trail, but that quickly ceased when he took office. You won’t ever again hear Trump blast the VA. Why? Because his words WILL be used in Federal Court against him to support an argument that points to known VA incompetence or mal-practice. And the VA’s poor conduct reflects poorly on HIM.

    Do not be foolish to think that he is not aware of the BS that occurs in VA hospitals and regional offices around the world. The Choice Program is an absolute bust, and the VA does not pay community providers on time or at all. This is going to domino and community providers will stop accepting choice for reimbursement.

    A Veterans family from the Fort Hood area sued in 2015 after he committed suicide on the same day he was in the care of a VA Psychiatrist. Hartbarger was his name. His family was defeated by DOJ attorneys after a bench trial and the Judge ordered that the Plaintiffs pay court costs (most likely over $50,000)and take NOTHING. DOJ attorneys painted his family as outright dysfunctional, and paid no credit to his service. This Veteran suffered from a diabilating injury and was always in pain. Government attorneys made this Veteran appear to be a junky, despite having server for at least a decade. People believe all of the rhetoric they read or watch on TV. No one is talking about this case, and it will pass on unnoticed. It is a victory for the VA. Meaning Veterans families who attempt to sue the Government for suicide are going to be slapped with the adjudication on the merits of this case. The Government essentially argued that the Veteran would have ultimately killed himself anyway.

    Employees that work for the VA are essentially immune from prosecution. So yes, they will continue to do whatever they want to do to Veterans. While every 5-10 years or so the Government “makes” an example out of a few.

    Look at the PA who sexually abused all of the Veterans in Kansas. The Government did not prosecute this individual. They allowed the State of Kansas to do so. Why? Because over 70 Veterans sued the Government for his conduct. Cases are now being settled quietly. The Government did not seek to prosecute him, it would be admission of liability. This PA assaulted Veterans at the VA on Government property. People overlooked that the Government didn’t prosecute him. When it comes to money and an admission of liability, the Government will forgo prosecution despite the repugnant conduct of a VA employee. The Government said they were not representing this person, but in reality they were and denied liability. They argued he was not acting in the scope of his employment. The Judge denied their motion to dismiss. DOJ steps in the place of any VA employee or doctor and will fight like hell.

    The VA is not afraid of any story being published or going national. They don’t care, and will step in Federal Court on any given day via a well polished DOJ Attorney and DENY any and every single allegation made by anyone.

  35. Cashour should focus on demoting and firing the many other VA employees reported on in Ben’s articles. At least Cashour can obtain many leads from reading the contents on this site. Ben is actually helping you to do you damn job. Asshole. A stanky one at that.

    Definitely in a mood. – – – Nutter.

  36. does it really matter what one person said. The VA will use anything and everything to divert from a the real issue. That being the lack or void of the medical services were entitled to due to the incompetence by some of the people working at the VA

  37. So…VA employees can commit all kind of mayhem and still be on the job with no repercussions..Overprescribe to the point of getting thousands of Vets hooked on Opioids‎ then cutting them off with no recourse resulting in suicides…cobble up phony wait lists that cost Vets lives to preserve their bonuses…waste BILLIONS at Aurora…be a registered sex offender…get arrested for drunk driving and illegal possesion of pain pills…even kill a Vet supposed to be on their care by beating him to death…and still remain on the job.. This guy makes a remark, on his own FB page, on his own time, that offends some twinkee NFL official, and he’s INSTANTLY demoted?

      1. Just saying “just stating the facts.” doesn’t prove ANYTHING..Please tell me how I’m wrong…use actual arguments, give examples, and PLEASE don’t assume you’re “right” just because you think so…

      2. Am I trying to prove anything, to anyone ? This is not court. I am sure you know enuf federal employees above GS 11 who will tell you the same thing… It’s not even debatable .

      3. Exactly what i expect from a deplorable. .. Ben certainly has his work cut out for him.. engaging such a group on a daily basis.
        with anonymous accounts… brave man to be anonymous.

      4. Oh and Frances did you get a chance to pick up Hillary’s new book. Not to spoil it but she does lose in the end. So keep on Dancing the Monkey Dance!!!

      5. Hey, Seymore,
        These kinds of articles sure do bring out the “Hillary Clinton Crime Family” supporters!

      6. WARNING. Hillary Harkards are in the mix. Deplorable. You still sore because she lost. Get over it! Move on with your life. Asswipe. Can’t figure out if your the paper, or none.

        Just by you mentioning anonymous accounts tells me that you’re a behind the scenes push over butt kisser. Belongs to a cliché too. Your type shines so ever dull. – – – Nutter.

      7. why would i be “sore” (idiot speak) about Hillary Clinton. I did not vote for her. I am waiting for a flight from Katowice, otherwise ,I would not waste time /energy on someone like you…

      8. What’s your real name …. Anyone who does not have the balls to say what they feel w/o an anonymous account is the textbook definition of a spineless coward. How do you stand up w/o a spine?

      9. I agree, FRANCES Beard. The bigger the mouth the smaller the brain. This idiot isn’t worth responding to. Just another ‘wanta-be’. You are 100% right on with being a Fed Employee – your life belongs to the machine.

      10. Mike I do agree with you on one thing that you have posted so far and that is where you said “bigger the mouth the smaller the brain”.

        After your racist and anti-Semitic rant below we should call you pea brain for short!

        The comment I am referring to is at:

        Hey pea brain did you happen to see the menorah behind Fran in her profile pic?

      11. @Seymore Klearly – – – I didn’t notice the menorah in the picture. Its funny. Many of the Jewish descent participate and promote the left’s agenda. Good eye. – – Nutter.

      12. Again, a Dick tater. Certain words are like triggers that set off a mind set that has nothing to do with the context. Same ole stanky swampy cliché of a bunch. When a VA Sec. is appointed that truly has integrity, many will be removed from the staph of the VA. Better make sure that the Union covers your damn butt. – – – Just give me kiss . . . , like this . . . , Nutter.

    1. Where do poverty stricken people save, borrow, or steal just to go watch a bunch of multimillionaires play with a ball that is not even round? They call it “foot” ball and they don’t even use their feet on the ball. Well, only when desperate. Hello!

  38. Traveling Wilburys – Tweeter And The Monkey Man
    Tweeter and the Monkey Man were hard up for cash They stayed up all night selling cocaine and hash To an undercover cop who had a sister named Jan For reason…

    1. “Shock The Monkey” – Peter Gabriel
      “Shock the monkey to life
      Shock the monkey to life

      Cover me when I run
      Cover me through the fire
      Something knocked me out’ the trees
      Now I’m on my knees
      Cover me, darling please
      Monkey, monkey, monkey
      Don’t you know when you’re going to shock the monkey

      Fox the fox
      Rat the rat
      You can ape the ape
      I know about that
      There is one thing you must be sure of
      I can’t take any more
      Darling, don’t you monkey with the monkey
      Monkey, monkey, monkey
      Don’t you know you’re going to shock the monkey

      Wheels keep turning
      Something’s burning
      Don’t like it but I guess I’m learning

      Shock! Watch the monkey get hurt, monkey

      Cover me, when I sleep
      Cover me, when I breathe
      You throw your pearls before the swine
      Make the monkey blind
      Cover me, darling please
      Monkey, monkey, monkey
      Don’t you know you’re going to shock the monkey

      Too much at stake
      Ground beneath me shake
      And the news is breaking

      Shock! Watch the monkey get hurt, monkey

      Shock the monkey
      Shock the monkey
      Shock the monkey to life”

      1. VA provides on-site assistance, counseling following Las Vegas shooting; Operation Song helps Veterans tell their stories through music October 6, 2017 9:22 AM
        U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

        Must be a bunch of thin skinned VET’S out there these days….U couldn’t insult me if you tried…Just don’t put your hand on me…LOL….Or you could just follow the bouncing ball and sing along with MITCH which most prefer and Rand Corp. approved so you don’t have to worry about anyone’s 😉 feelings

      2. Oldmarine, I must agree to disagree, so we must pray for sin city. Can you fathom how much one lunatic is going to cost the mob? I know the media moguls are loving it; though they don’t show it, it only shows in their bottom line. But lets think of the upside, he was not a veteran, convicted felon, history of mental illness, etc… and his girlfriend was a minority. He probably worked for the VA somehow because it does not make sense.

      3. media moguls, the mob, Sheldon Adelson, They all sleep in the same bed.

        Eerie Predictions in Vegas… Cui Bono?

      4. “An illusion it will be, so large, so vast it will escape their perception. Those who will see it will be thought of as insane.

  39. Like the video. Like the article. But it probably won’t take much investigation to see where this guy was coming from. Still there is enough in this article to get him off unless he makes rampant racist remarks somewhere. In any case it adds to the focus on the issue.

    1. Shows how others are held by a fucking different standard. True flag waving Libturds. Let me tell you how to run your life, but don’t tell me how to run mine. I hear and see this all the time. And, in this case, Cashour didn’t focus on the issue of this particular incident. Could of picked a clear cut case to make a firm but sound example of what’s not acceptable. – – – Nutter.

  40. Here’s a must read for everyone,
    “The Conservative Free Press”
    By; Andrew
    Posted 2 days ago online.
    (10 comments worth reading)
    “A Communist Graduated From West Point. Now Republicans Want Answers”

    In the article, it’s reported he’s not only a communist, he’s also “…a supporter of Antifa…”!
    Congressman Marco Rubio, (R-Fl), is really upset about this. He’s calling for the guy to be kicked out of the Army and repay ALL monies for the education he received at West Point.
    You may, or may not, know who got the communist and Antifa sympathizer the appointment at West Point – a Democrat! Who would have thought it, right!

    1. ANTIFA & other far left “progressive” groups ARE funded by the communists. (Commifornia)

    2. I thought the discrimination, segregation, biases, prejudices was only against the Irish? I feel like rip-van-winkle, what changes have occurred; what used to be wrong is right today, and what used to be right is wrong now. Maybe Jerry Springer is offering us a window into the future?

  41. Quote; “VA does not condone or tolerate such unacceptable and offensive comments from any of our employees”, said Curt Cashour,”:
    Well I guess it’s ok for anyone sitting in front of the Congressional VA Committee, and telling bald faced LIES is “acceptable and not offensive!”
    Or, I guess it’s ok to be part of a “armed robbery”and still work for VA.
    Or, I guess it’s ok to be a “Convicted Sexual Pervert”, and still work for VA.
    Or, I guess a person illegally using taxpayers monies, as Rep. Trey Gowdy has stated, to go on a vacation with the wife, is acceptable and not offensive.
    Or, I guess it’s ok for VA management to use taxpayers monies for their own use, as has been reported numerous times, is acceptable and not offensive.
    Or, I guess it’s ok for VA employees to not help in processing claims in a timely manner is acceptable and not offensive.
    Or, I guess it’s ok for VA employees/management to be “vindictive towards whistleblowers” is acceptable and not offensive. [Especially when its a violation of federal law.]
    The list goes on and on and on and on and on……from one of the most corrupt and egregious government agency around!

    I sure hope that Mr. Steven Pina sues the crap out of VA over this issue!
    I also wonder IF the union will defend Mr Pina. As they have defended many crimes by VA employees in the past?

    Oh, I forgot. And this is coming from a reprobate, Curt Cashour, who defended Secretary of VA, Shulkin and Wife, for illegally wasting taxpayers monies on a trip to Europe recently!
    Damn, that $25 million dollar a year VA Public Relations Firm is going to have to work lots of overtime on this and other issues coming into the light!

    1. Yes efl, kickem in da nuts. Rat Basturds, every single one of them. Fuck you VA. Oh and hey, if you’re watching me, please put me in the spotlight. VA you’ll look like a fool if my story goes National. Come on, put me in the headlines. Bitches. – – – Nutter.

    2. This specific firing of a VA manager protesting the protestors (getting hard to keep track of who is who) is nothing more than an extension of butthurt snowflakes still mainlining Obama feel-good vibes, however, if you get caught killing a Veteran in his hospital bed the AFGE will protect your ass even from blunt force murder of a Vet by a VA Med-Tech Hack.
      Note: these protests of kneeling and even aggression towards those that have served are essentially the same as them wiping their asses with the flag. These asswipes make millions of $$$$ so I say if you do not like it, please allow me to help you pack for your one-way trip to wherever.
      RANT OUT.

      1. I need a little clarification on the multiple blunt force trauma used that eventually ended the disabled veteran’s life in a VA facility bed after he fought the VA employee from forcibly sodomizing him. Did the VA employee make any racist comments? Thank you

    3. I simply ceased watching any organized sports. Done. Even considering ditching cable because I am SICK of these butthurt snowflakes. It’s a full moon, so expect web attack from flying monkeys that may or may not dance. 🙂

      1. namnibor, have you seen where a VFW post in Ohio is NOT putting the sports games on TV in their lounge?
        I wonder what the VFW State and National Department’s thought of this?!
        I believe the “post” would have had to vote on this to stop putting the sports games on TV. If so, then maybe those in State and National Department’s have little to no say on the issue!

      2. Yeah, all well and good, but it’s a rather pacifist way to fight back, taking away the game/TV for everyone…almost like some demented childcare center rules. This also may drum-up fresh meat…err, membership dues. 🙂

      3. In the early 70s, I tried to join the VFW and they turned me down because they said “you guys lost the war”. Now, since most of them are dead and pushing up daisies, they want me to join. No one thanked me for my service back then, so what has changed? All I ask is for the ones that did not thank me back then to thank me now, and not just insult my actions for putting my education on hold to go fight an unpopular “Police Action” because it was not a war, or else the bitch would have been tried for treason.

      4. Francisco, it wasn’t nice to be in the military right after the needle pointed to “US losing the Police Action Conflict.” Moral sucked. Army and Navy accepted criminals in exchange for their jail time. It was hard to fit in. Caused me much anger due to protecting myself, my friend, and other colleagues. Have to stop, vivid daydreaming occurs, followed by ranting. Hate this agitating PTSD. It hurts everyone involved, and especially your love ones that are around you. I struggled with PTSD, but in denial for decades. Even the VA, as a supposedly medically seasoned PTSD treatment resource for Vets, has miserably failed me due to the new medication guidelines. Many Vets are now suffering again. Unreal. – – – Nutter.

  42. Football, baseball, basketball, It’s so stupid a cave man wouldn’t do it, or watch it…If he could

    1. All organized sports serve the exact replacement of the Roman’s Coliseum with Christians & Lions. No hungry lions being fed nor gory blood, but serves as a blowout valve for society’s aggressions…but not for all and for some, the kneeling of the lions has had a paradoxical reaction in incurring aggressions. RAND recommends staying clear of any flying monkeys because they fling poo.

      1. The Lions pointed at the dancing monkeys for replacements for the Christians. They replaced the Christians with a pigskined ball. 🙂

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